How Women and Men Determine Attractiveness Based on Lip Size

Summary

Gloss Angeles Episode Summary: "How Women and Men Determine Attractiveness Based on Lip Size"

Released on April 22, 2025

In this engaging episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan delve into a fascinating study on how lip size influences perceptions of attractiveness, while also touching upon related beauty topics. With their extensive background in beauty journalism, Kirbie and Sara provide insightful commentary, personal anecdotes, and expert opinions that resonate with both beauty enthusiasts and casual listeners alike.

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1. Perfume Etiquette on Planes

00:31 – 06:04

The episode kicks off with a discussion sparked by an article from The Cut, authored by Alexandra Pauli, which addresses the etiquette of wearing fragrances during air travel. The conversation highlights the common dilemma passengers face regarding strong scents in the confined space of an airplane cabin.

Kirbie references the article:

"There was an article on the Cut discussing the etiquette of wearing fragrances during travel. Alexandra Pauli had an experience with a fellow passenger's overpowering scent of Baccarat Rouge 540." (00:50)

Sara firmly advises against wearing heavy perfumes on flights:

"No, don't do it. Have common sense. Smell like you just showered." (01:24)

The duo emphasizes the importance of being considerate, noting the recycled air in planes can amplify scents. They discuss alternatives like light deodorants or minimal spritzing before boarding, ensuring a pleasant environment for all passengers.

Sara shares a relatable frustration:

"I have seen the most insane things airline passengers have attempted or actually done in an airport. That really boggles the mind." (02:12)

2. Botox and Tariffs

06:04 – 09:10

Transitioning to industry news, Kirbie introduces a headline from Allure about the impact of tariffs on Botox and dermal fillers. The conversation underscores how manufacturing locations, primarily Westport, Ireland, influence the cost of these popular cosmetic procedures.

Kirbie remarks:

"Botox is made exclusively in Westport, Ireland. So, we might start to see prices increase if you are dabbling in that." (06:03)

Sara adds practical advice for listeners considering Botox:

"If you're getting injectables, plan and budget for potential price hikes in the next six months to a year." (08:08)

They discuss the variability in pricing based on geographic locations and brands, highlighting concerns over affordable options like Groupon deals and the importance of quality assurance when selecting providers.

3. Lip Size and Attractiveness: A Gender-Based Study

09:10 – 15:29

The core of the episode revolves around a University of Sydney study published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B. The research explores how lip size influences perceptions of facial attractiveness, revealing distinct preferences between genders.

Kirbie summarizes the study:

"Female participants tended to prefer plumper lips on female faces, whereas male participants favored natural-sized lips on female faces." (09:10)

Sara questions the societal implications:

"Do men even know what natural size is? They look at women and think they're not wearing makeup when they have a full beat." (09:54)

The hosts delve into concepts like lip dysmorphia, overfilling, and popular techniques such as the lip flip. They critique the contradictory expectations placed on women to appear both natural and enhanced, highlighting the psychological pressures that drive excessive beauty treatments.

Sara shares a personal reflection:

"I got lip filler twice or three times, and after the third time, I was like, I'm gonna stop. I could see this going south." (14:04)

Kirbie emphasizes the importance of embracing natural features:

"There's something so beautiful about a thin lip shape." (13:43)

The conversation also touches upon the disconnect between actual appearance and perceived appearance influenced by social media platforms like TikTok, where subtle enhancements can significantly alter a person's facial aesthetics without overtly appearing artificial.

4. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

12:10 – 15:29

Kirbie and Sara share their personal experiences with lip fillers, discussing the balance between maintaining natural beauty and pursuing enhancements. They express concerns over the long-term effects of repeated procedures and the difficulty in reverting to original lip shapes once fillers are dissolved.

Sara candidly states:

"If you want me to have giant boobs, and I do not have giant boobs, the only way to get giant boobs for myself would be implants." (10:54)

The hosts advocate for self-acceptance and caution against succumbing to unrealistic beauty standards, urging listeners to embrace their natural features and make informed decisions about cosmetic procedures.

5. Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

15:29 – 16:16

As the episode winds down, Kirbie and Sara announce their upcoming travel plans to Amsterdam, where they will continue to explore beauty trends and engage with industry experts. They tease a guest episode featuring notable personalities, promising listeners fresh and insightful content in the near future.

Kirbie signs off:

"We're going to be in Amsterdam amongst the tulips having a great time recording a fun episode for you guys." (15:29)

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Notable Quotes:

• Sara on flight etiquette:
  "You should not smell bad. But you should not be trying to get people to ask you what your perfume is on a flight." (02:29)

• Kirbie on Botox pricing:
  "What else? What are we not paying more for these days?" (06:26)

• Sara on natural beauty:
  "Embrace your thin lips if you have them right." (12:10)

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This episode of Gloss Angeles offers a comprehensive look into the nuanced perceptions of beauty, particularly focusing on lip size and its varying reception across genders. Through thoughtful dialogue and relatable anecdotes, Kirbie and Sara encourage listeners to navigate beauty trends with mindfulness and self-confidence.

Transcript

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[Kirby]

GLAM Los Angeles. Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Okay, Kirby, I feel like this is relevant because we have been traveling a lot, and we are going to be traveling next week.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

There was an article on the Cut that the headline is, is wearing perfume on a plane. Okay. Ooh. So the Cut is discussing the etiquette of wearing fragrances during travel. And this specific writer, Alexandra Pauli, she had an experience with a fellow passenger's overpowering scent of Baccarat Rouge 540. And so that led to this discussion of whether or not it's open. Okay. To wear perfume on a plane. Thoughts?

[Sarah]

No, don't do it.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Have common sense.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Like, be clean. Smell like shower. You just showered.

[Sarah]

A fragrant deodorant, if you must.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Maybe a little rollerball.

[Kirby]

Actually light. Yep.

[Sarah]

Just a light scent before you spritz. Put it down. I don't want one spritz or, like.

[Kirby]

Do it before boarding. No, no, but not like a heavy spritz. But, like, if you're gonna do the rollerball. But don't. Nothing in the cabin. No, never in the cabin.

[Sarah]

We are recycling air in a plane. What do you not understand about that? Yeah, it already can kind of smell whack.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Depending on what type of flight you're taking.

[Kirby]

Right. Like, the base level is, like, not good already.

[Sarah]

And I understand that people think that flights are the lawless land airports.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

Laws don't exist. I truly have seen the most insane things airline passengers have attempted or actually done in an airport. That really boggles the mind. But in this case, have some decorum.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

You are not an animal.

[Kirby]

Yeah. You don't need to smell, like, fragrant. No worries.

[Sarah]

You should not smell bad. But you should not be trying to get people to ask you what your perfume is on a flight, if anything.

[Kirby]

You shouldn't smell like anything.

[Sarah]

Yeah, like neutral.

[Kirby]

Neutral.

[Sarah]

Neutral. I love Prada paradox. Have it on clothes that you're re wearing.

[Kirby]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sarah]

And it's like, oh, wow, that's so.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

If you. First of all, I can't say that I actually Love Baccarat Rouge. So I would be pissed.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I would be very upset. And it only smells good on Rihanna to me.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

But I truly would not be okay. The nose issues.

[Kirby]

People have allergies. Yeah, totally. People have so many allergies.

[Sarah]

And I can see how people would argue, but people bring their dogs on flights, right? I think that's a valid argument because I have brought Quinn, my passenger princess, on flights. She's eight pounds, but she had to. She literally had to. And so I think about that a lot. Like, should there be separate flights that you can buy where dogs are allowed and you can opt out of it, where you're like, oh, this is a dog friendly flight, then I need to find an alternative option.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

You know, there's like a dog airline now.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

But Quinn would literally lose her mind.

[Kirby]

Yeah. There were other dogs. I get it.

[Sarah]

So she has to be amongst the humans.

[Kirby]

Yeah. So I agree with you. I feel like even when it comes to, like, hand lotions.

[Sarah]

Got to be careful.

[Kirby]

Sanitizers. Like.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

This is not the time for the. The, like, really intense touchland scents.

[Sarah]

Right. I also feel weird even using my Clorox wipes.

[Kirby]

Oh, I know. Because that's also a very strong. But at least for me, I'm like, it's killing my bacteria.

[Sarah]

Sanity. Like, my sanity and sanitizing. I need both of those things because.

[Kirby]

We know that they're not.

[Sarah]

When you buy, they're not cleaning between Delta flats.

[Kirby]

Sorry.

[Sarah]

I'm a platinum member. I am disgusted. I am disgusted by what comes up when I wipe not only my chair, but the table that we eat off of. The past three Delta flights I have been on in the last four months. Trash. Like visible. Not like hiding in a pocket. Visible trash. What are we doing? I understand that the flight industry has been suffering, and so I'm really not trying to pile on, but if I'm paying that much for a flight, I expect the.

[Kirby]

Exactly.

[Sarah]

Sun Chips bag to be disposed of. And the water bottle.

[Kirby]

Yes, please. Exactly. Anyways, we need to do better. We need to pay the flight staff better. We need, you know, all of that, but we also just need it to be clean. And we also need to not wear fragrance.

[Sarah]

Can we go back to Pan Am days? I want my flight to be an experience.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Less seats. I would pay more for a flight with less seats.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Where you can get up and walk about the cabin. It feels more like a luxurious experience. There is no chance in my lifetime I will ever afford a private plane, but I don't even want a private flight. No, I'm okay being amongst the people.

[Kirby]

Yeah, totally.

[Sarah]

But let's just minimize the amount of them.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And then just being courteous. Everyone just being courteous.

[Sarah]

And everyone's happier. Cause they feel more catered to. They're not squeezed and touching someone next to them. There's room. Everyone's nicer. See, we could really solve this problem. Clearly we really know the basis of the issues with the flight industry.

[Kirby]

Yes, but. But bottom line is. Yeah, we both agree with this writer. No fragrances.

[Sarah]

Absolutely not.

[Kirby]

Keep them in the bag. Spray them after. This next headline is about Botox and tariffs. Did you read this article on Allure? But I'm sure you've heard the conversation. Are we gonna be paying more for our Botox and our dermal fillers because of the tariffs?

[Sarah]

Yes. Correct.

[Kirby]

All right, that's next.

[Sarah]

I didn't get to read it though. Is that true?

[Kirby]

What else? What are we not paying more for these days? So it was just saying that it's summarized at like, where Botox is made. It's actually made. I didn't know this. Exclusively in Westport, Ireland. Yes, I didn't know that.

[Sarah]

Yes. Because Jenny Baggy of Allure has gone to. To Allergan's facility there.

[Kirby]

Why is it made there? That's just where it is.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I don't know the exact reason. I am unsure about why Allergan set up shop there. Okay. But I could have told you that this would be a problem because a lot of times when we hear about these injectables that come to the U.S. they come to the U.S. they have been around for however many years. Totally. And they finally get FDA approved in.

[Kirby]

The U.S. yeah, it's usually the last.

[Sarah]

Place because they have been using them wherever else around the world.

[Kirby]

Right. So Jeuveau and Ledebo. Is that how to say that?

[Sarah]

Oh, I haven't heard that one.

[Kirby]

That's from South Korea. Siemn, Germany, Restylund and Skoltra, Sweden. So all that to say is not made here.

[Sarah]

So basically what you're saying is when we go to Amsterdam, we should really be just plumping ourselves up.

[Kirby]

Yep. If you are going to Amsterdam, South Korea or Sweden, get your fill there. No, Yeah, I mean, we'll see. Like, I wonder when we'll start to see the prices increase. Because obviously I think, you know what, what is here right now has been saved from the tariffs. But I feel like in six months to a year, just be prepared, plan it out, but budget it into your.

[Sarah]

Spending because right now in la, I think the going rate for an injectable, like a neurotoxin, goes anywhere from 15 to $25, depending on where you're at. In Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I had a friend reach out to me saying, okay, I think I know the answer, but should I use this Groupon to get Botox? And I'm like, are you on crack? No.

[Kirby]

You're like, have you listened to any of our episodes?

[Sarah]

It's actually become very abundantly clear. None of my friends listen to my podcast. They don't engage with any of my content. Babe, I love you dearly. Don't do it. Like, you would be crazy. She was asking me what the going rate was. I'm like, in la, if you're get. She was like, I found a place for $12 a unit. I'm like, check it out, make sure it's okay. But like, that's a great deal, you know, and obviously it depends on the injectable. Is it OTOX versus dys, you know what I mean?

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

Sometimes they vary based off how much they're paying to get it.

[Kirby]

So, yeah, yeah. So all that to say, expect the prices to increase if you are dabbling in that.

[Sarah]

Everything's going up.

[Kirby]

Everything's going up. Okay, this last headline, my note here is, this is a new report, but also, duh, Love this. Yes. So the headline is, lip size shapes beauty Perception preferences differ by gender. So a recent study from the University of Sydney published April 10 in the proceedings of the Royal Society B, I don't know what that is, explores how lip size influences perceptions of facial attractiveness, revealing notable gender based differences and the effects of visual adaptation. So it found that female participants tended to prefer plumper lips on female faces, whereas male participants favored natural size lips on female faces.

[Sarah]

Interesting. But do men even know what natural size is? They look at women and think they're not wearing makeup when they have a full beat.

[Kirby]

That's very, very true.

[Sarah]

So maybe they think that.

[Kirby]

Yeah, like their baseline of like what a natural lip size is, is actually.

[Sarah]

I'm like, that woman has had filler.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

So they just don't want it to look egregious, I guess.

[Kirby]

Yeah. But I think it was interesting. I mean, it's not surprising. But that women, they prefer like the plumper lips. That is interesting. Leading to what they're calling lip dysmorphia, which.

[Sarah]

And that causes overfilling and things of that nature.

[Kirby]

Yep. And then the lip flips and all the things.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

The over lining Yeah, I mean, we've seen it.

[Sarah]

It's also interesting that it's not interesting. This is just a duh, like you said.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's a duh.

[Sarah]

But men really do want women to be perfect but also natural.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's. Yeah. It makes no sense.

[Sarah]

Please get a grip.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

If you want me to have giant boobs, and I do not have giant boobs, the only way to get giant boobs for myself would be implants.

[Kirby]

Yeah. But, like, great. If they look natural.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

If they look, like, real.

[Sarah]

If they're going to the opposite side, there's a big, gaping hole in the middle. No, no. But if they have the nice Kylie Jenner teardrop shape, then that's okay.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

It kind of just goes back to the conversation about plastic surgery in general, how we're like, wow, so and so is aging so graceful? And it's like, yeah, she had a facelift and work done. She has wrinkles, but she still had work done.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Or if you see a woman who kind of looks insane, you're like, oh, my God. Like, why can't you just, like, tone it down? And it's like, because we are putting all of these pressures on women to look a certain way.

[Kirby]

Exactly. Yeah. It's not fair. We're not gonna win.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

But it said. The study found that the brain processes lip size as a distinct feature separate from the overall facial structure, indicating that lip size alone can significantly impact attractiveness judgments.

[Sarah]

Well, that's why women think certain women are beautiful, while men think certain women are hot.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

You know, but it's. It's funny that the call is coming from inside the house where we're like, oh, she has big lips.

[Kirby]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Remember? So I won't say her name, but when we were in Savannah, we were talking to somebody there, and she was talking about getting lip filler, and she had gotten lip filler. It was very minimal. It didn't change the look on her face. She has thin lips to begin with, and she was thinking she wanted to get more. And I'm like, I want you to go look at lips and then rethink this idea of getting lip filler.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

It looks like they took play DOH and rolled it between their hands and put it on her lips in a lip shade. Embrace your thin lips if you have them right. I have seen very. I mean, TikTok has really shown me the power of filler where I'll see a woman's face, and she's never popped up on my FYP before. And I'm like, oh, she has like really beautiful features. And then she shows up a four photo and I'm like, oh, my gentle Jesus, she had the thinnest lips I've ever seen in my life.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then you see these and it's just. Yeah, it works with her features. But you. She looked good either way.

[Kirby]

And yeah, it's just like there's such a disconnect from what you actually look like and what you were born with. But I feel like with lips people are less like they're like, oh, whatever, it's just your lips, it'll dissolve versus, like, you know, they have these strong feelings about like facelift or whatever. Right. But with their lips or like, whatever, I can like plump it up as much as possible and play it off like their mind. But you're like, no, actually that doesn't look anything like your God given lips.

[Sarah]

Right. Or you see people who talk about getting their lip filler dissolved, and I'm like, okay, I get it. But your lips are still different now.

[Kirby]

Right?

[Sarah]

You're not back to where you started. Yeah, your lips have changed. I've noticed that. I got lip filler. Dr. Samolitis did it for me. And I remember when she did it, I was very happy. It was because as you get older, your lips deflate.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

At least white women.

[Kirby]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's a universal thing, for sure.

[Sarah]

And so she was like, let's add a little bit. And I remember really liking it. But then I felt I got it done, I think two or three times. And after the third time, I was like, I'm gonna stop. Because I could see this going south. Like, I could see me just becoming like, I need him bigger, not plumper, totally larger and take over my face. And I don't want that. And so every now and again I think, okay, maybe I'll go in and just get a little bit just to kind of smooth out the lines on my lips. Everybody has lines on their lips. So as you get older, they become more prominent. But for now I think I'll just chill. But the lips are so interesting. Cause they're like, oh, yeah, they'll just dissolve or it'll just go away. Or I can get them dissolved.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Then it's like, but your lip shape doesn't actually go back to where you started from.

[Kirby]

I think there's like something so beautiful about like a thin lip shape.

[Sarah]

When I see women that have untouched lips.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I'm like, oh my God, please Do not fuck around and find out. Like just let it be. I think we are going back to that.

[Kirby]

I do too.

[Sarah]

But then I again, like I said, I see women that get them done and they look incredible.

[Kirby]

Yeah, right, Right. So then it's like the upkeep of that. What do your lips look like when you're like older?

[Sarah]

Yeah, like what has been done?

[Kirby]

We'll see. But yeah, this, I mean lips are just. I knew they were important but apparently they're really important.

[Sarah]

I would have loved to seen photos of what men thought natural.

[Kirby]

We should look into this.

[Sarah]

What did natural mean? Yeah, to them. All right, those were some interesting and fun headlines to chat about. Everybody, we are going to be going to one episode a week for the next two weeks. Sarah and I, when you guys are listening to this, we will be in Amsterdam amongst the tulips having a great time recording a fun episode for you guys. So you'll get this episode this week and then next week you will get a guest episode on Friday. So if you want to hang with us, come to Slack, find us on Instagram, TikTok, all of the things, our broadcast channel on Instagram and we will be back full schedule on I guess two weeks, whatever that date is. Two weeks.

[Kirby]

We'll miss ya.

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