Sarah (2:14)

Oh,

Kirby (2:20)

We covered when they closed.

Deepaka Mutiala (2:22)

But you know what? I still think it's a shame that that happened because the brand Y was like, so dope to me. But I have this beautiful. It's like a powder and a shimmery Powder and it's like a bronzer compact together. Do you remember that? It was like a D. Need to

Sarah (2:35)

buy whatever they have left. I think they're still trying to get rid of stock, so I better load up.

Kirby (2:40)

You need to make your own version.

Deepaka Mutiala (2:43)

We're working on a bronzer and that was like an inspo because I. I love it so much, but I want to make it the formula even cooler so I have that on. And then what else?

Sarah (2:52)

Wait, what's on your cheeks? Is that the bronzer?

Deepaka Mutiala (2:54)

That's what's behind you. No, no. So that's the blushy part of my cheeks is our hue beam. But the bronzer in there, like, I also love to layer true bronzer on top of it. So that's what's going on right over here. So pretty. Okay, so pretty.

Kirby (3:06)

Eyes.

Deepaka Mutiala (3:07)

Eyes are an eyeshadow from like, Anastasia Beverly Hills, one of the palettes. You know, it's funny because, like, it's like, as much as I love new like a LA Tower 28 and like the do's, I love the OG brands too. And I think maybe I'm just like hoping that brands can still be preserved. And so as a brand founder, I'm like, support the OGs. So I have that on and then a little bit of our eyeliner on and our mascara.

Kirby (3:32)

What are you using on this gorgeous hair?

Deepaka Mutiala (3:35)

Okay. So ever since I went to Barbica mode, which is what I call her, when I took out a bob, I didn't know what to do with my hair when it started growing into a lob. So. And I'm a girl that's like air drying my hair. I'm getting it done until I discovered the main round brush changed my life. And all of a sudden it's like, I feel like I know how to do hair and it's so easy.

Kirby (3:54)

So easy, so fast.

Deepaka Mutiala (3:56)

So fast in five minutes. I feel like I went and got a blowout. Obviously, round brushes have been around forever, but it's new to me.

Kirby (4:01)

No, totally. I also just love the different sizes. There's one for everyone.

Deepaka Mutiala (4:05)

There's one for everyone.

Sarah (4:06)

We used it today.

Deepaka Mutiala (4:08)

Yeah, there you go.

Sarah (4:08)

We both have our, like, little mid length. The mid length hair is in fashion, in my opinion.

Deepaka Mutiala (4:15)

It's. It.

Sarah (4:16)

I love it's.

Deepaka Mutiala (4:17)

It's part of fashion now. I feel like the hair being this led.

Sarah (4:19)

Yes, I agree. Chic deeps. What's your fragrance of choice?

Deepaka Mutiala (4:22)

Okay, so I just found out from my derm, the reason I'm getting eczema is because of my fragrance, and I've been a Dior J' adore Dior girl, and it's the fragrance that I wear, and it just goes with my skin, because every time I wear it, someone's like, you're the girl that smells good, which is the nicest thing to ever hear.

Sarah (4:37)

Yes.

Deepaka Mutiala (4:37)

But you can't anymore, so I can't anymore. And so if you guys know anything that, like, won't irritate skin, please tell me, because I'm really anxious about the idea of not being the girl that smells great all the time. I wonder what it is.

Sarah (4:49)

Is it, like, the alcohol in it that keeps it too lasting, it's too dry?

Deepaka Mutiala (4:53)

Or a Bella from Bell? Indeed. Like, I wonder if it'll work, because it's supposed to be all natural oils and. And all the things. I love the scents.

Kirby (5:01)

I feel like you'd find one that. Yeah.

Deepaka Mutiala (5:03)

But the fragrance brand that excites me the most right now is noise. The marketing is so fresh and interesting, and it has a perspective, and I just love that it's at Ulta, because I feel like it makes Ulta even cooler.

Kirby (5:14)

Yeah. The Ulta family.

Sarah (5:15)

Yeah.

Kirby (5:16)

We spent a lot of time at Ulta Beauty World together.

Deepaka Mutiala (5:18)

I know. I was so excited you guys were there. You know what's funny? Jessica, who works at Ulta, was like, what do you think? We've hired Kirby and Sarah. I was like, genius. It's such a genius move, right? Like, in a world of where it's influencer, influencer, influencer. Bringing a different kind of authority to the room is just really smart on their part.

Kirby (5:35)

We loved your booth. The caviar.

Sarah (5:37)

The caviar, the pickleball. Everything was perfect. We had so much fun. I actually wanted to ask you something based off of what you said, that you're working on a bronzer. How hard is it to work on a bronzer As a brand that is known for inclusivity?

Deepaka Mutiala (5:53)

It's the reason we don't have one yet, because I really. And I've talked to friends who are like, deeper skin tone. Like, deep, deep, deep skin tone. And I'm like, what do you use as a bronzer? All of them just say they do, like, the reverse contouring and the, you know, the version where they're using a lighter color to create a bronzer and their skin is the bronzer. So, yeah, the reason we don't have it is, like, we've made a promise as a brand to not launch anything unless we can serve that deepest complexion. So we don't have it. We have our complexion sticks that have a super, super duper deep shade. Our shade one is our deepest shade. And that can work as your, like, bronzer con. I would say more bronzer on deep skin, but I want a powder version. Yeah.

Kirby (6:30)

Do you think the reason that brands are still releasing products that are not inclusive is just, like, pressures from retail or, like, what is it? Because when we see it happening, we're like, why? Why is that still happening?

Deepaka Mutiala (6:44)

Unfortunately, what you just said is true. It's like people just look at productivity per square foot and it's a shame because then you feel this pressure to do something that maybe, maybe give the benefit of the doubt to the brand that they want to do and just, like, can't do. Like, I remember when the whole thing happened with Beauty Blender, with Rhiannon. Like, Rhiannon is not a bad person. Rihanna has a black daughter and a granddaughter that is black. Like, she's not an idiot. She knows what to create. She's a trained makeup artist. She wasn't intentionally trying to do that. But there's so much that goes behind the scenes and reasons why certain things happen. And I just feel like I see it all because I'm obviously in it for us. Like, our deeper shades don't sell nearly as well as our lighter shades. It's like, just what's happening because we don't have enough brand awareness yet to that deeper complexion audience that the productivity is just so much higher on this side because of Ulta's demographics. But if you believe it's the right thing to do, and honestly, it's our whole brand, why, if we don't do it, then what does the brand even stand for? And the goal is eventually that we do grow in brand awareness and then this audience of people who obviously exist come to us. And I've heard this, by the way, from, like, other brands who stand for inclusivity, too. They're like, ironically, we're all brands that stand for inclusive beauty, but our lighter shades sell more.

Kirby (7:58)

That's so crazy.

Sarah (7:59)

I'm glad that you're bringing this up because it really is a problem within the industry, like, if we are going to give benefit of the doubt. Granted, I do think that some brands just don't. They don't care.

Deepaka Mutiala (8:09)

No.

Sarah (8:09)

And then they pander and then they know it's going to get talked about and it's like a whole thing. Like, that is definitely a real thing.

Deepaka Mutiala (8:14)

Thousand percent.

Sarah (8:15)

There are brands that we know the founders of. We know the scientists behind the formulators the developers who their reason to be is for inclusivity. But then there's this trickle down effect of, well, that Skew doesn't sell that many units.

Deepaka Mutiala (8:32)

Or let me break down the math here please. To do a shaded product with any manufacturer that's like decent sized, it's 5,000 per unit. So if you're a brand like when we launched our Complexion sticks, we launched with 20 shades. We are starting at the very minimum with a hundred thousand units of a product that we have no idea how it's going to sell. So imagine also being a brand that is completely new and starting with a product like that, they are sitting on a hundred thousand units, potentially with no retailer support, no Demand on their D2C and trying to sell a hundred thousand units. So the reason we didn't even launch Complexion products and Shaded products earlier was because we needed a retailer to, to straight up say we are putting a purchase order of this many units so we can justify on the back end a hundred thousand units.

Sarah (9:19)

Right. That's why it's so hard for indie brands, like people just getting started. I don't know if you've seen her, but she created this brand called Pum Whom. No, tell me they're a part of this Ulta accelerator. I'm getting, I'm getting something mixed up here, so please do not quote me but. And I cannot remember the founder's name, but she is going hard on TikTok and she's nice discussing her founder story, like, okay, this is the problem I went through today. This is the issue. There's only like, I think six shades of her foundation product. And like a lot of the response has been like, you shouldn't launch a foundation unless you can hit all of these different things. And it's like she does not have the capital.

Kirby (9:55)

Yeah.

Sarah (9:56)

But she wants her brand to be out there and she believes that she has something that hopefully if enough of this sells and she gets distribution and all those, then she can grow and make these shades that she needs to make. But then there is a contingent of people that are just like, well, it shouldn't exist if you can't do it right the first time. Right.

Kirby (10:13)

Yeah. I mean the Internet is so vicious, they'll cancel you right away.

Deepaka Mutiala (10:16)

It's honestly so scary. Which is why, like, I mean there's so many reasons why not to do it. But I totally empathize with what she's saying because if we do 5, 000 for every shade one the fairer side, we actually need to do like 10,000 on this side, we need to start with really, like 1,000. We're still sitting on the inventory of that from when we launched, you know, so it's just like, it's complex.

Sarah (10:36)

Is that something that needs to change, though, within the industry?

Deepaka Mutiala (10:39)

Like, what?

Sarah (10:40)

It seems fair that if you were like, I. I know we need 10, 000 of this one and 1,000 of this one. Like, can't we just figure out the spread?

Deepaka Mutiala (10:48)

Yeah. I mean, there's so many complexities on the operation side of why they can't. Right. Like, on the. The actual manufacturers, they have their own systems in place, and it's like, well, if we're creating a bulk of this and then only a little bulk of this, it's like a volume game for them, too. They have margins to hit and cost of goods to hit and their own version of what I'm going through.

Sarah (11:05)

Oh, my God, I love talking to you about this. Can I ask her something? This is kind of out of left field. Do you want to talk about the lipstick lesbians?

Deepaka Mutiala (11:11)

Oh, okay. So I. To be honest, I only know a high level. And what I'm going to say is generally about seeing the noise that's happening is, first of all, they're trying to do something innovative and out of the box that's never been done before, which is dope and exciting. You're going to fuck up when you do something like that in the beginning. I also think they're really, really kind people. This is where it goes back to, like, Grace and the Internet not having it and just, like, recognizing that this is their first time doing it. They're not like a massive institution that made this mistake. And you're like, how dare you? You have all the money in the world to do this. These girls were just trying to do something different.

Kirby (11:46)

Yes.

Deepaka Mutiala (11:46)

Like, take a chill pill.

Kirby (11:48)

Seriously. Everyone needs to, like, zoom out, take a breath, and remember why they started this in the first place.

Sarah (11:54)

Listen, do I think that there are valid crit critiques that, like, I would even tell Alexis and Christina myself. Yes. Like, one of the questions I had when they initially approached us to come on the podcast when we were talking to their team was like, why are people gonna pay for a product that they're reviewing and giving feedback on?

Kirby (12:12)

And it was a high price tag?

Sarah (12:13)

Yes. I was like, I think it was 34 or something.

Deepaka Mutiala (12:16)

So I agree with that.

Sarah (12:17)

And I was like. And some people were criticizing the actual packaging that it came in, like, at the tin with the label. And I'm like, lest we forget that's how Pat McGrath labs.

Deepaka Mutiala (12:25)

I was just going to say that

Sarah (12:26)

that is literally how they launched.

Deepaka Mutiala (12:28)

It's branding and, like, who's behind it, like, all of a sudden, you know, like a lip balm is the coolest accessory in the world because really cool brands like Summer Fridays and Rhodes said that they are. That's just like, the world that we're in. We have to be honest about that. What's really innovative versus really great marketing. And there's nothing wrong with either of those things. It's just a fact. But, yeah, I agree with you. Are there criticisms? Yes. But do I think there are women who will take the criticism and deeply care and do better?

Sarah (12:53)

Yes, they are.

Deepaka Mutiala (12:54)

Can be true.

Sarah (12:55)

I think Alexis said I didn't get to watch the full video, but I think she's. They're going to figure out how to refund everybody and, like, go back to the drawing board. I mean, they actually don't have to do that, right? They don't. But I think they really do care.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:07)

They care so deep. And I just. I wish there was more grace on

Sarah (13:10)

the Internet, but I agree, because we are people that actually know them. Like, we don't know them just from the Internet. We know them in real life.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:17)

And.

Sarah (13:17)

And they don't deserve.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:18)

And by the way, they've done so much for us without paying a dime because they're knew we're an indie brand they want to support. I'm talking, like, early days Live Tinted, she would be posting about it, and it was like, the coolest, most exciting thing for us, you know?

Sarah (13:30)

Yeah, totally.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:30)

Just a good person.

Kirby (13:31)

I feel like people might have forgotten because Live Tinted has grown to be such a massive success, but you started as a creator, and this was before creator founder was really a thing.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:42)

Yeah.

Kirby (13:42)

You led the charge. What did you understand about your audience early on that you think traditional beauty brands did not.

Deepaka Mutiala (13:49)

Ooh. I think I recognize the importance of a hero skew and not saying that larger brands don't realize that, but I thought. And I found it exciting to start with 1A. I had to for 5 billion reasons. But I think, like, I remember Mariana Hewitt started this, like, founder club right when Jet Lag Mast had launched and we had just launched the hustic. And it was like five or six of us in a room, and it was just so great to be around literally what you just named, like, founders who were also influencers coming into a room and just, like, learning from each other. And it was the same model almost across all of us. It Was like, Lily Lashes had her lash. They had the jet lag mask. I started with the hue stick. Like, it was just everybody had that method. And maybe it was because we actually didn't have another option besides doing that, but I knew that it was important to create an audience around a product and fall in love with that before expanding, because you needed to be known for something, and you needed to create some sort of innovation in a very cluttered space. So for me, it was like, okay, I had this video go viral in 2015, which, by the way, it's crazy to me that people still are like,

Kirby (14:50)

you're the red lipstick girl.

Deepaka Mutiala (14:51)

And I'm like, wow.

Sarah (14:53)

Remind everybody who might not be familiar.

Deepaka Mutiala (14:55)

Great. Yeah. So in 2015, I created a video on my iPhone using a red lipstick under my eyes to mask dark circles. And it was like, what kicked off this whole trend of, like, beauty hacks, like, how do you use a banana to contour? How do you use a lipstick to hide dark circles? There were some crazy things that happened after that.

Sarah (15:12)

That was a time.

Deepaka Mutiala (15:12)

It was like condoms used for some.

Sarah (15:14)

I don't even remember what it was.

Deepaka Mutiala (15:15)

But, yeah, a time was had. And this was like, early YouTuber days, you know? And so it was my second video ever changed my life. I quit my job, became a beauty influencer, but always with the goal of starting Live Tinted.

Sarah (15:27)

That is amazing. Okay, so you mentioned the hero product being the Houston stick at the time.

Deepaka Mutiala (15:32)

Okay.

Sarah (15:33)

I was gonna say, is it still hue stick?

Deepaka Mutiala (15:35)

It's not. And it's kind of exciting to me, though, that it's not, because color correcting is a very niche category in the whole ethos of the beauty industry. I've always wanted live tinted to be known for complexion, which is why we started with the Houston. Because color correcting is complexion. And also because I had the video go viral, and I was like, let me create a solution for this, but in a way that hadn't been done before by making it also a multi stick and make it less artistry and more everyday girl. So that was the thought process. What's exciting to me is that today our number one product is the Huguard skin tint. So It's a mineral SPF 50 that also has a coverage of a skin tint in one, because it just goes back to the why of the brand. Like, if you're gonna be called Live Tinted and be about inclusivity, having complexion be your hero product is just the most exciting thing. And so it sells every two minutes at Ulta.

Sarah (16:20)

Wow.

Deepaka Mutiala (16:21)

And we're just leaning in now. You're just gonna see us keep talking about the skin tint, because back to the hero skew of it all. A beauty brand in today's world will, in my opinion, not thrive or survive without a very clear hero product that they're known for.

Sarah (16:35)

Right.

Deepaka Mutiala (16:36)

How is a consumer in today's world going to be able to know what to get from you? It's just. Think about it. I have, like, 200 plus SKUs at Ulta right now. Somebody comes to your shelf, it's like, where the hell do I begin? We have to make it really clear that the skin tint is the thing that draws people in, and then that kind of goes from there.

Kirby (16:53)

Was it difficult to develop Huguard?

Deepaka Mutiala (16:55)

Yes. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad you see, this is why your podcast is so fun, because you. You get the actual of beauty, and that's not always the case. So that yellow product behind you, the Huguard 3 in 1 mineral SPF, you know, and I. This is going to be a controversial thing, but you guys are probably the best place to talk about this. And we've texted about this. The whole premise of starting that was creating a mineral SPF with no cast. And that was the idea because it was a very personal story to me as a young girl that I grew up having to put on SPF and feeling like I first of all wanted to be a white girl, because that's just what the beauty standards were. And then the products worked on white girls. So I was like, how can I create a version of this in a very luxurious way that at least makes it a less of a white cast? So that was the inspiration for that product. And all my investors told me not to do it because we had just gone from the hue stick, which was a makeup product, and they were like, no makeup brand goes directly into an spf. This is also before SPF became like an accessory to brands at this point. I did it because of my brand. Why? It was like hyperpigmentation and dark circles was what we were known for. So it was like, how do I create the makeup solution? SPF solution, and then we have a skincare solution, too. And then everyone was like, it's. It's expensive to do an spf. Never. The timelines get met. It always gets pushed out. And it also doesn't make sense. Who goes from a makeup product to an SPF product? The coolest thing was when that came out, we won the WWD Innovation award for it, which was really Close year two of the brand existing and the other ones in the category for innovation was Calvin Klein for a fragrance and Clinique for their foundation drops. So like, to be in that room at the Rainbow Room in New York City, it was just a moment, but it also is the reason that we got Sephora's attention. Oh, that spf?

Sarah (18:36)

Really? Okay, so you get Sephora's attention, but you're with Ulta at the time.

Deepaka Mutiala (18:42)

No, we were. We were in nowhere. We were D2C. Okay, okay, okay. Not everybody knows this, but Live Tinted started as a community platform and it was before community platform was like a buzzword, you know, like in 2019, it was like we created this Instagram page and we wanted to create this community of people around the hashtag Live Tinted. How do you tag people around deeper complexions that you don't traditionally see in beauty? So all of a sudden I posted everyone on my page, please use hashtag Live Tinted. Showing me beautiful melanated skinned women that are South Asian, East Asian, black, like everything. I just wanted to collect a page and be that home for it. Within literally minutes, hundreds of people were tagging these people. And I just got to discover all these gorgeous women that I felt like you don't normally see in the beauty industry. So we started as this community page. So by the time that we actually launched a product, we had a built in audience. It was really cool. Like, we hit like hundreds of thousands of sales and with that first product in the first week.

Sarah (19:39)

Wow.

Deepaka Mutiala (19:40)

Which is like, I don't know of how much people understand, like how incredibly hard that is. Like, I'm not Alex Earl. It was a big deal.

Sarah (19:46)

No, no, no. I think about this all the time. Like the fact that you and all these other founders, you know, we're coming fresh off of Ulta Beauty World, so we're thinking about this, but they're like, oh yeah, we moved this many units in this many days. And I'm like, what? Yeah, like that many people purchased your product or that many sales happened. It is crazy because as you know, as a creator, or do you call yourself a former creator? Are you still a creator?

Deepaka Mutiala (20:11)

Whatever. Okay. I used to be so offended by the word influencer and all these things. And it's like, honestly, like, who cares? Yeah, it's an ego thing. We have to get over it. Like, influencers are influential.

Sarah (20:22)

Totally. But we look at everything now from like followings and views and shares and comments. And so those numbers are super important. So then when you hear a brand is actually selling a Certain amount in, like, 24 hours, you're just like, what, that many people exist in the world?

Kirby (20:41)

Yeah.

Deepaka Mutiala (20:42)

And you just never know. You can build this audience and hope that they want it and make it for them, and then you could just sit there and it's crickets on your Shopify. Right. Like, for that to happen, it was, like, such a clear indicator that, like, we were doing something right. But by the time we won that award, we were still just D2C trying to figure out who our retail home was.

Sarah (20:59)

Okay, so let's talk about that, because there's obviously a discussion between, like, when it comes down to Brass Tax, it's always between Sephora and Ulta.

Kirby (21:06)

You're in Sephora Canada.

Deepaka Mutiala (21:08)

We're in Sephora Canada.

Sarah (21:09)

That's amazing. Okay. That's where I was getting confused.

Kirby (21:11)

Okay.

Sarah (21:11)

Yeah. So.

Deepaka Mutiala (21:12)

So, yeah, we're only. We're exclusive to ulta in the U.S. okay.

Sarah (21:15)

Amazing. How did you decide, though, for the U.S. which I would assume is your biggest market.

Deepaka Mutiala (21:20)

Oh, yeah, it is the market.

Sarah (21:22)

Why Ulta?

Deepaka Mutiala (21:23)

It came down to just pure, sheer belief in us as a brand. And that's just the truth. Right. Ulta was so excited about me, my brand, my purpose, my why. And my biggest advice to anyone who wants to pick a retailer is go with the one that believes in you. They're both massive institutions with tons of credibility and equity behind them. Both of them are winning in their own respective ways. Ulta is proving and wants to prove and continue to prove that they know how to build brands. Sephora is kind of the one that's known to do that. So to me, it's like, if you were today talking to both retailers, just go with the one that is gonna get behind you. Because getting into the retailer is one thing. Staying at the retailer is another.

Sarah (22:03)

Oh, my God, I can't even imagine. Sarah and I are like, we could never create a brand either together or on our own, because I would be just walking in a corner somewhere.

Deepaka Mutiala (22:13)

It is not for the week, let me tell you that.

Kirby (22:16)

What you think about before bed, I can't even imagine.

Deepaka Mutiala (22:18)

I stream about it. Yeah, I have nightmares about it. It's. It. There is no off switch. It's all encompassing, for sure.

Kirby (22:25)

You obviously have been extremely vocal about representation, especially for the South Asian community. You're like a star. You are the star.

Sarah (22:33)

The mayor of the South Asian community.

Kirby (22:35)

President, actually.

Sarah (22:37)

She's the Olivia Pope of the South Asian community.

Deepaka Mutiala (22:40)

I kind of feel like I look like Olivia.

Sarah (22:42)

You do.

Deepaka Mutiala (22:43)

It's giving.

Kirby (22:44)

Madame President. Okay. Do you feel like the industry has actually improved or do you think they're just. They have just gotten better at marketing in terms of inclusivity?

Deepaka Mutiala (22:54)

I think on the South Asian front, it is just so cool because I feel like it's the first time South Asian girls are cool. Lara Raj from Cat's Eye. I mean, we could go down a list, but there's a whole trending crew of batty South Asian women who are like beauty influencers, but also just influencers. And that's so exciting to me. And part of the reason I knew I was ready to start my brand versus being a beauty influencer was because of how many other brown girls I saw being beauty influencers. And I realized I way more enjoyed being the person who, like when a brand would come to me being like, you should hire this girl versus being the one that they hired. I really like the business of beauty more than being the face of beauty. And it's just so exciting to me now because all these girls are like big, big deals. And so that part is really cool. I think when it comes to the larger conversation of representation and beauty, there was a cute moment in 2020 because the world had changed and BLM had happened and everyone was forced to care. Retailers, brands, humans, all had to. Whether they performatively did it or just did it, they did it. I think now we're seeing that all the performative action is completely gone and true colors are showing. And the brands that still care, you can tell. And the ones that never did, you can also tell. And I also think it's really, really tough with the political climate we're in right now to be a brand that stands for inclusivity. So, like, what I'm actively working on changing the brand narrative around is that we're a complexion authority rather than saying the word inclusivity so we can more show rather than talk about what we stand for, because that word is putting you in a box. And what I don't want is for anyone with Kirby's complexion to think that this brand isn't for them, because that's simply not true. And I think that's the biggest issue I have with being called like a brown girl brand or a POC owned brand, because that's. We just want to be a brand. My goal is that, like my future daughter is going around and people are pulling out live tinted and they have no idea that it was started by a South Asian woman.

Kirby (24:41)

Right.

Deepaka Mutiala (24:41)

If they hear it, they're proud and excited, but it's just a brand that's epic and it's a legacy brand and it's doing everything right without the narrative being around inclusivity. Because you know, we just do it in subtle ways. Like I said, our deepest shade is shade one and our lightest shade is shade 20. And so there's ways to do it by just like your actions versus screaming out to the world. We stand for Di and things like that because it's, it's not as sexy of a conversation and it's unfortunate but true.

Kirby (25:09)

You, I feel like are one of the few brands that is able to do that where you attract this large broad audience. But like we've seen it with Ami Colette or say you easily are just put into this box, you can't reach other people.

Deepaka Mutiala (25:22)

Yeah.

Kirby (25:23)

How do you do that?

Deepaka Mutiala (25:24)

I think Ulta has helped us a lot, to be honest. Before we were in a retailer, we did cater to a very specific audience and we were seen as that too. We wouldn't have been able to scale without a retailer who has their own built in audience, who has completely drawn in an entire new demographic for us. That's just like a fact. Otherwise I was like, oh, you're the brown girl brand or something like that. And it's just simply not true.

Sarah (25:47)

I wish there was a way though to be the brown girl brand and still attract everybody at the same time. Because Jackie Aina's also talked about this like, well, why is it when a black founder starts something, it's a black girl brand? Why is when a brown girl starts a brand, it's a brown girl brand?

Deepaka Mutiala (26:02)

Like it's always led when people talk about me too deep as a South Asian beauty entrepreneur, blah blah, blah, blah blah. And I get it and I am proud to be that. But I also want to be seen as peers with say beauty. Laney Merit, Katherine Powers. And I want to cater to the girls that also buy their products. And I think a lot of people could say, well, why? They had plenty of brands for them too. It is important that young people know that someone who looks like me was able to build and scale a nine figure brand. It just hasn't happened before. We have not seen ever a South Asian American woman build a brand that's doing nine figures.

Sarah (26:40)

Plus tip my hat to you babe.

Deepaka Mutiala (26:43)

Working on a girl we ain't there yet, but on the path.

Sarah (26:46)

Listen, I think that you're, if not super close, like it's gonna happen imminently, right?

Deepaka Mutiala (26:53)

And I do think complexion is the smart strategic way to do it too. Beyond it being my dream like that's exciting that like the why of a brand. Like think about all the hero skews that exist in the industry. I doubt when Summer Friday started that they thought the Lip Butter Bomb was going to be the thing that changed their entire business. I don't know if Patrick thought that the spray would change one size his business. Like you can't really predict the thing that takes off, you know? Right. You just try for every single launch as hard as possible and then sometimes something just happens that's unexplainable. So that's what I feel like is happening with our skin tint and we just have to keep doubling down on it and do it. But it's just exciting for me that I have a brand that is around complexion because beyond me being excited from a business perspective and like a potential acquirer perspective, it's repeat purchase rates are really strong. Loyalty is really strong. When somebody finds a complexion product that they really love, they like stick to it. So that's exciting.

Kirby (27:46)

You mentioned Patrick, is there someone in your like, creator founder community whose brand is like, in your opinion, like killing it all?

Deepaka Mutiala (27:54)

The ones I just named, I admire them both so much. But the one that brings me the most joy right now is Danessa Myricks. I think I work really hard. That woman works so hard. Because what people don't realize is like being the founder, being the CEO and being the face of being a content creator are three separate jobs. And a lot of us do all the above. And I've found that since I am the CEO at this exact moment and I'm also the founder and the content creator, I'm not doing, in my opinion, the content creation side well, as much as I want to, because I'm so into the day to day of the business as the CEO, Danessa just finds a way, in my opinion, to just do it with such joy and grace. And she, you can tell, is just having the time of her life and getting the like flowers she deserves. I mean, she's been in the game forever.

Kirby (28:41)

Yeah.

Deepaka Mutiala (28:41)

So to see that win is just like so exciting.

Kirby (28:44)

I love that.

Sarah (28:44)

Okay, I want to go back to Ulta and P S listeners. This is not sponsored by Ulta. Like this episode is not sponsored by anybody. Editorial.

Deepaka Mutiala (28:53)

And by the way, we talked about Sephora, like I, I do think both businesses are doing smart things.

Sarah (28:57)

They are. They're totally different. Yeah. We were talking about ulta Beauty World vs. Sephora and I was like, I don't think Sephora was trying to do what Ulta Beauty World was doing. And I think the same the other way around too.

Kirby (29:08)

Like they're completely different, completely different events.

Sarah (29:11)

But what did you have to learn quickly about competing on the floor at Ulta?

Deepaka Mutiala (29:16)

I do think you need to have a sizable amount of capital to win at a retailer. I think it's important for people to know the time it. It makes sense to enter a retailer. Like I said, if a retailer believes in you, they're going to help. Like we started in a sparked program with Ulta, like on the back shelf, one shelf. And they really support you when you're there. But the second you're kind of next to the ones that are like the big dogs. I mean think about it. They're being measured on productivity too. Like every square foot matters for them. In a retail door. It gets really hard and expensive and it's not. It's. It's obviously possible I'm doing it, but I just think everyone needs to recognize that like right product, right retailer and right funding are all important to win.

Sarah (29:56)

What do you think that number is?

Kirby (29:57)

Oh my God. I was just gonna ask.

Deepaka Mutiala (29:59)

I think to. To start, I think. And this is if you want to go into a retailer. I don't think this means to win at a beauty brand. If you go and kill it on TikTok shop, do the affiliate thing, it's a whole different thing. I think you can do it with zero capital and just go and do it. If you're a retailer, I think you need at least 2 million to be able to do the marketing, support the, the shelf space and all the other things that go into it. But then I saw it. Was it David that was on Yalls podcast 10. Right. And so I don't disagree with him on that number for scaling and like building. For me, the number two is to like get in there and a lot of people have just completely grown from just that size of capital. I think 10 makes a ton of sense for the influencer world that we're in now. How expensive it is. There's. But I do think it's possible to do it with less. It's just nice. Yeah.

Sarah (30:48)

I think that's what he was also talking about.

Deepaka Mutiala (30:51)

Yeah. Comments. And people were like saying their other opinions and it's like he. That's what he meant.

Sarah (30:56)

Like, babe, he's in every single Ulta. I think he knows what he's talking exactly. Or he was rip Good light.

Kirby (31:02)

Yes.

Deepaka Mutiala (31:03)

By the way, another example of like great brands. I'm Clay. Incredible brand. Good light, incredible brand. It's just that Hard right now. So hard that I don't think it's like people can say people did things wrong. And I'm sure the founders can reflect themselves and say they wish they did things different, whatever. It's just that hard.

Kirby (31:19)

Also, like, exhausting. Physically, mentally, emotionally. Like, I think that David could have probably gone on and tried to find funding to continue, but he was just done.

Deepaka Mutiala (31:29)

Burned out.

Kirby (31:30)

Yeah, burned out. It's impossible.

Sarah (31:32)

Same. Same with Giada. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kirby (31:34)

Okay, wait, we were talking about on a previous episode, about $1 billion valuation. Would you ever want Live T to be valued for that?

Deepaka Mutiala (31:44)

I used to when I was starting this entire journey and I was going to funds to say, like, I would say we're the next billion dollar beauty brand. But I think a lot of that was the toxicity I had in my own brain growing up in like, the glossier girl boss era of the world. And so I felt to be able to again, as a South Asian woman, I believed I could be the Emily Weiss, and I didn't. I wanted to show young girls you didn't have to look like her to be her. So I had that, like, drilled into my head. Listen, would I love that to be the case? Not again. I genuinely mean this. It's going to sound corny, but nobody needs to be a billionaire. So it's not about me having $1 billion, but $1 billion brand can impact a billion lives. Think about that. Like, think about what you can do if you are that big of a company on global impact. Like, such a big goal of mine is Live Tinted goes global because I think it's just important that you go into airports around the world, see representation in the way that it should be versus what I feel like I currently see globally. So to me, at this stage, what I care about is becoming a global beauty brand over the number with the B. But hey, if it happens, better to happen to a nice person, right?

Kirby (32:57)

Wait, are you available in Asia yet?

Deepaka Mutiala (32:59)

No, we're not. Because again, this goes back to like, like every. I hear every day. When are you in India? When are you going to India? When you're going to India. I don't think people realize how many dollars, time and resources and effort goes into launching in another country. And for me, India is so important. Like, I am not effing that up. I am doing it right. Like, it. It just matters at, like a cellular level to me. So it'll happen when it's meant to.

Sarah (33:23)

What are the big retailers in India?

Deepaka Mutiala (33:25)

Nika and Tira are the two. It's like there. That's like the Sephora Ulta that exists there. Isn't that interesting?

Sarah (33:32)

I'm fascinated.

Kirby (33:32)

There's always that dynamic.

Deepaka Mutiala (33:33)

There is everywhere. Even in India. It's crazy. Yeah.

Sarah (33:36)

So cool. What are you genuinely excited about in Beauty right now?

Deepaka Mutiala (33:40)

That's a great question, especially to a tired founder who like, has to, like, get deeper to answer that. Because I'm really, like, just. It's draining. Right? Like the cycle of it all. God, I hope I don't get canceled for saying this. I think it's so sad to see brands shutting down. But on the celebrity level, I think people always ask me, like, does it bother you when celebrities come in and then they just like, win immediately? It doesn't. Because you can't win long term unless you have way more than just a celebrity name behind it. I don't believe that Rare Beauty is winning just because of Selena Gomez. And road is winning just because of Hailey Bieber. They have really great teams. They have really good operations. Selena Gomez started with the entire Nick's team as her executive team at launch. So I believe they deserve to win and so they deserve to be where they are. I think it's exciting to me that the brands that started for the wrong reasons on the celebrity side because again, the amicula is in the good lights of the world. It's just that difficult that we're kind of seeing everything get weeded out and the ones that have heart and soul and have dreamt of this. This was my dream since I was 16 years old. Will hopefully rise.

Sarah (34:53)

Yes. The brands that are supposed to be here are still here.

Deepaka Mutiala (34:56)

Yeah.

Sarah (34:57)

In respect. Like, very big caveat, like, we are not talking about good life. No, no, no, no.

Deepaka Mutiala (35:03)

None of those at all.

Sarah (35:04)

But because of the situation we're in right now in this conversation, obviously we're probably thinking about 2, 3, 4, 5 celebrity backed brands. Led brands that thought, I have a name, I have a fan base, let's see where this goes. And then literally their name.

Deepaka Mutiala (35:20)

I'm just walking away.

Sarah (35:21)

What is going on here? Haven't heard about this brand? This brand shut down. I mean, brand doesn and endure.

Kirby (35:26)

Every six months we have to do like a health check on some of these brands.

Sarah (35:31)

Yeah. Would you go like health grades?

Kirby (35:32)

Like, yeah.

Deepaka Mutiala (35:33)

No way. That's cool.

Kirby (35:34)

Because there's so many that. I mean, there was a time when we launched our podcast where every week we'd be like, here's three new celebrity backed brands.

Sarah (35:42)

Yes. And we were getting outreach from those brands about that celebrity coming on the

Deepaka Mutiala (35:47)

podcast, you know what? I was with a specific celebrity, and I asked her why she wouldn't want to do it, and she was like, like, honestly, it. It's like, not. Doesn't sound fun. It doesn't sound like a good business opportunity. And luckily, I. So I think it's kind of cool that they're seeing what's happening and thinking in their own mind. Like, unless there's a real passion, I'm not gonna do it.

Sarah (36:06)

I love that Miley Cyrus was like, maybelline can cut me that check. I am never making my own beauty brand. Go, girl. That's what I want to hear.

Deepaka Mutiala (36:15)

More people need to do that.

Sarah (36:17)

Yes.

Deepaka Mutiala (36:17)

More people need to do that. I actually just posted this when I was at UB World. And you guys can understand this because you're friends with both brands and influencers. I tell every influencer, really think about whether you want to start a beauty brand. Because when I was an influencer, I was flying business class, and I was staying at the Ritz. That's what we did. For an influencer at UB World, do you know what I did? I stayed at the Royal Crown Plaza, and I was flying straight up economy. When I was an influencer, I was getting flown first class to Bali by Clinique.

Sarah (36:45)

Yeah, right?

Deepaka Mutiala (36:46)

Changes. Okay? So, like, everyone needs to really look inward and decide if they want to do that grind. It's a different grind. You're building equity, and you're doing sacrifices and putting other people up at the Ritz while you're staying at, like, the Motel 6.

Sarah (37:01)

So, listen, you're doing what needs to be done, babe. You're going to have longevity.

Deepaka Mutiala (37:06)

You're going to want people to know. It's just not as glamorous as it looks.

Sarah (37:10)

I mean, and online, it looks very glamorous. What we see you guys doing, we're like another award, another luncheon, another founders meeting, another.

Deepaka Mutiala (37:19)

The awards feel really good. And honestly, it is the thing that makes you feel like a jolt of, like, what keeps. Keeps you going.

Sarah (37:24)

Totally.

Deepaka Mutiala (37:25)

It's like, oh, okay. It doesn't drive sales. You know, these beauty awards aren't driving sales. I think allure is probably the one that I've experienced the most, like, benefit from, but the other one's just. Just kind of like a. Okay, this is working.

Kirby (37:38)

Yay.

Sarah (37:39)

Totally feels good. It's interesting you brought up allure, because it seems like when I talk to publicists, they're like, they want that Allure beauty Award. The founder wants the Allure beauty award, and I'm like, like, is it really that impactful to the consumer? But I guess it is because if you put that seal on your product in a retailer, people trust it. They're like, oh, okay, red seal, here we go.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:01)

I would say it's the only one that does matter.

Sarah (38:03)

Totally.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:04)

It has that much credibility to it that it does work and the retailers care about it.

Sarah (38:08)

Can you go on the record about something which Sarah and I have talked about before, but there's this new narrative that, like, you buy your way into these awards for allure. Obviously there is a submission fee that you have to have. And then to obtain this seal to put on your packaging, you have to license it.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:22)

You do have to license it, but you're.

Sarah (38:24)

They're not like, hey, we're giving you this award. Pay us 30 grand.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:28)

That has never happened. I think a lot more people would have the award if that's how it went down. But you do have to license it and pay for it. So that has never happened.

Kirby (38:38)

Yeah.

Sarah (38:39)

I mean, in my opinion, I think that's fair. Like if you want to put something on your packaging. Yeah, Forever. Totally.

Kirby (38:45)

And especially if it's impacting.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:47)

Yeah. Your business, then impacting the business. So I think in the allore case, I am grateful to get it and it actually is helping. So.

Kirby (38:55)

Yeah.

Deepaka Mutiala (38:55)

Yeah.

Sarah (38:55)

Okay. We've reached the end of this convo, but we don't want you to go without letting us know. Is there anything you can tease coming from the brands that you're super excited about? New launches or campaigns?

Deepaka Mutiala (39:07)

More complexion. My dream and hope is five years from now, everyone is talking about us. The way they talk about luminous silk from Armani. The way they talk about the it cosmetic CC cream. Like Laura Mercier tinted moisturizer. Like when you think of live tinted, I want you to think of one of our complexion products. So this fall you will see more complexion.

Sarah (39:24)

Yay. Thank you, Deepaka.

Deepaka Mutiala (39:27)

Thank you. Thank you.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (39:39)

Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives name your price tool for years now with the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. It. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty insurance company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law.