Katie Jane Hughes Shares Why Technique is More Important Than the Product + Teases New KJH Brand Launches

Summary

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Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Katie Jane Hughes Shares Why Technique is More Important Than the Product + Teases New KJH Brand Launches
Date: October 10, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson & Sara Tan
Guest: Katie Jane Hughes (Celebrity Makeup Artist, Founder KJH Brand)

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Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Kirbie and Sara sit down with the acclaimed makeup artist and influencer Katie Jane Hughes. The episode explores why technique far outweighs product selection in makeup, the evolution of Katie’s personal and professional journey, her approach to inclusive beauty, and a candid look at the philosophy and future launches of her namesake brand. The conversation is packed with actionable advice, brand transparency, and genuine encouragement for makeup lovers of all skill levels.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Katie's Makeup Kit Must-Haves (05:11)

• Katie shares the top five staples in her pro kit:
  • Glossier Stretch Concealer (“It works on everybody, and it is the most gorgeous, glisteny, healthy skin concealer that ever existed. I wish I made it.” – [03:17])
  • Glossier Brow Pencil (“Such a damn good pencil.” – [03:45])
  • KGH Soft Raisin (“If it soft starts getting low, I put in a fresh one straight away.” – [04:07])
  • Mario Palettes (“The new neutrals… love them to death.” – [04:07])
  • Tower 28 Mascara (“That one… and the Huda One Coat Wow are also incredible.” – [04:36])

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Early Influences: From Cabaret Transformations to Social Media (05:58, 07:41)

• Katie’s mother—cabaret singer—was her first makeup inspiration:
  • “Red lips, jet black lashes, way too much bronzer, hair backcombed to the gods…” ([05:07])
  • “She would completely transform into this cabaret star… the impact came from seeing this woman of four children… completely transformed.” ([05:07])
• Katie’s career journey:
  • Started as a nail artist, no formal qualifications, self-taught and hands-on.
  • Emphasizes being “a yes person—always said yes to opportunities, always malleable.” ([07:41])
  • Makeup became the outlet—“makeup was my outlet to make me feel more beautiful and make me feel more like myself.” ([07:41])

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Unique Aesthetic & Fresh Skin Ethos (09:35)

• Known for painterly, skin-focused technique:

  • Shifted online in 2016, noticing most beauty content was “baked, beat, heavy.” ([10:03])
  • “We’re taught to… the skin should look like skin… conceal just where you need to.” ([10:03])
  • “For me, it's always technique first... not the product.” ([13:26])

• On being an influencer/makeup artist hybrid:

  • “Are you an influencer? Are you a makeup artist? Which one are you?” ([11:26])
  • “You really can be both nowadays.” ([13:26])

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Why Technique Over Product Always Wins (13:26)

• On education vs. product obsession:

  • “I get quite frustrated… when it becomes too much about the product, because I’m like: no, no, no—take it way back…” ([13:26])
  • “There are so many variables... I’d be doing a disservice to just say ‘NARS in the pot,’ because that might not work for you.” ([13:26])

• Notable exchange on product vs. spell:

  • Sarah: “Everybody thinks that there is a magic potion.” ([15:16])
  • Katie: “It's not about the potion, it's about the technique. It's about the spell.” ([15:18])

• Practical tip: Every ingredient interacts—be careful how each step affects the next (“If you put lip balm under a [Rhode] peptide lip treatment... it ain't gonna last.” – [15:29])

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Small, Effective Techniques and Insider Tips

• Application and blending:

  • Mistake seen most often: over-blending or blending too harshly (“Pressure and aggressive blending needs to be less.” – [27:28])
  • “Let's just be like Bob Ross. Just like Little Tree.” ([28:11])

• Essential tools:

  • Face cloth/flannel for cleansing (“I will not wash my face without a cloth or towel… It’s literally an exfoliator.” – [28:35])
  • Good foundation/concealer brush (“The #2 from KJH brand—pack on foundation with it, blend blush, or highlighter.” – [29:10])
  • Spoolie for everything: brows, glitter removal, cleaning mascara mistakes, lip exfoliation ([29:57])

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KJH Brand: Ethos, Product Development, and What’s Next (17:02, 37:36)

• Product philosophy:

  • “If I can educate with it, I’ll make it.” ([17:42])
  • “Makeup that makes you better at makeup.” ([22:01])
  • Texture is non-negotiable, products must mimic lifelike skin, and packaging is color-coded by category. ([18:33])

• Upcoming launches:

  • Spoolie-based Nano Brow Set (brow gel with micro wand) coming late October/early November ([29:33], [42:24])
  • Mascara, shimmery lip crayon, double-ended eyeliner, future concealer, and cleanser teasers ([37:36], [43:01])

• Commitment to inclusivity:

  • Discusses the importance of inclusive shade ranges and team involvement, particularly for waterproof mascaras and complexion products ([43:01])

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Honest Takes on Beauty Trends and Social Media Fears (22:15, 23:48)

• On trends:

  • Dislikes DIY skin treatments involving needles (“Leave it to the professionals.” – [22:28])
  • Loves the comeback of playful, colorful makeup as well as the embrace of softer glam by celebs ([22:47])

• Filters, AI & Deepfakes:

  • “Filters terrify me.” ([23:48])
  • Concern about beauty standards regressing due to AI-generated imagery and deepfakes ([25:05])
  • Katie’s content has been used for AI deepfakes: “That’s not my voice, nor is it my mouth… but it's my face.” ([26:43])
  • Calls for regulation and playful, 'un-cute' filter counter-movements ([25:55])

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Real-World Advice: Skin Texture, Tools, and 'Real Skin Glow'

• Cleansing as the foundation:

  • For creasing/patchiness, start with good cleansing—“Get your flannel out... It all starts with cleansing.” ([30:43])
  • Recommends Glossier’s Futuredew for taming flaky spots, Hourglass Loose Powder for finish ([31:43])

• Strategic use of tools:

  • “Small brushes [are best]—you're more selective about where things go... Pinpoint placement.” ([33:00])

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Tips for Mature or Textured Skin (36:10)

• Key advice:
  • Technique trumps product. “Try foundation on bare skin first—see how it performs without interference.” ([36:10])
  • “Technique and pressing [makeup] in is always better than dragging… Finish the blend with a tap.” ([36:10])
  • Moisturizer favorite: IS Clinical Daily Dynamic Hydrator ([38:38])

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Katie on product vs. technique:

  “It's not about the potion, it's about the technique. It's about the spell.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([15:18])

• Why she educates:

  “If I can educate with it, I’ll make it.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([17:42])

• On trends:

  “Trends worry me... Some things should be left to the professionals.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([22:28])

• On AI:

  “I feel like we should have this movement online... where we start using ugly filters so that we love ourselves more in real life.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([25:55])

• Approach to blending:

  “Pressure and aggressive blending needs to be less.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([27:28])

• What makes KJH products special:

  “Makeup that makes you better at makeup.” – Katie Jane Hughes ([22:01])

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Key Product Recommendations & Techniques

• Concealer: Glossier Stretch Concealer & NARS Soft Matte Pot ([03:17], [14:35])
• Powder: Hourglass Loose Powder ([31:43])
• Brushes: KJH Brush No. 2 & No. 3; plus, always have a face cloth and spoolie ([29:10], [33:00])
• Technique: Warm up product in brush, blend gently, utilize small brushes for glow, and test foundation on bare skin ([15:16], [33:00], [36:10])

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Upcoming KJH Brand Launches

• Nano Brow Set (brow gel) – early Nov 2025 ([42:24])
• Mascara in regular and waterproof ([43:01])
• Shimmery lip crayon & double-ended eyeliner ([43:04])
• Concealer (in development with focus on inclusivity) ([43:01])
• Cleanser (early-stage tease; unique concept) ([30:43])

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Special Tips from Katie

• For patchiness/creasing: Use a face cloth daily, don’t overapply, press rather than drag, top flaky spots with Futuredew ([30:43])
• Spoolie hacks: Remove stray glitter, fix mascara, exfoliate lips, flick off stray hairs ([29:57])
• Brows/lips: Don’t ignore the 'halo' area around lips, consider experimenting with brow shape ([45:08])
• Mature skin advice: Sample foundation on bare skin, focus on skin type, press foundation vs. dragging ([36:10])
• Extra: For reset or building up makeup at night, damp beauty sponge is your best friend ([40:32])

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This interview is an essential listen for beauty lovers, professionals, and anyone wanting to refine their makeup routine with a focus on skill and thoughtful product use. Katie’s blend of expertise, honesty, and generosity in sharing her philosophy makes the episode a masterclass in both inclusivity and artistry.

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Transcript

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[Katie Jane Hughes]

Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah.

[Kirby]

Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

Welcome to the pod.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

A long time coming.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It really has, like, honestly, when I. When I. When I thought of this as a potential opportunity, I was like, it's got to happen. We've got to make it happen. It's got to happen. We're making it happen. It's happening.

[Kirby]

Oh, you have to be, like, our most requested.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

Guest.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I don't believe that that's.

[Sarah]

Well, I think, like, that's a lie. Katie, Mary Mario.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

And Pat and Charlotte.

[Kirby]

So we're in Charlotte.

[Sarah]

No, we will never. Charlotte will never do it. They'll never do it.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

How do you know that? You don't know that.

[Sarah]

I just. I know in my heart.

[Kirby]

We were close with Pat, but anyways, we were so, so grateful.

[Sarah]

You're.

[Kirby]

We were like, we heard you were coming to town. We were like, we're moving mountains. We're making it happen.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So excited. Thank you for having me on. I can't wait.

[Kirby]

We know you're so, so busy, so thanks for making time for us and.

[Sarah]

I, as you guys are going to listen to this afterwards, you need to go to Katie's TikTok page and you need to study.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I love it when the comments pop up of Kirby being like, my show is on.

[Sarah]

No, literally, I'm like, I watched. I watched her tutorials this morning while I was doing my makeup because it looks gorgeous. You just have the most amazing point of view on beauty and makeup and skin. Because one thing I love about you is you're a makeup artist that does makeup, and you don't expect people to look like they're not wearing any makeup at all. But the skin shines through. And your techniques have really improved my makeup techniques over the years. I just absolutely love watching you.

[Kirby]

All the other makeup artists that I watch, too, are always like, I learned this from Katie J. Hughes. Warming up your concealer before you prime the brush.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Brush, brush.

[Sarah]

Priming the brush. What's your life?

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. Of course. It doesn't come to you naturally.

[Sarah]

What I love, too, is that you're also so supportive of other brands that you use. Like, you have your own brand.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And obviously recommend it, and you show it in such a natural, organic way. It doesn't feel like you're pushing product on people. But then you're also, like, using Mary Phillips palette and. And seeing her praises and talking about that, and.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Just could watch you for hours.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

There's enough. There's enough space for all of us.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

That's how I see it.

[Kirby]

Also, it's just, like, so relaxing to watch you put your makeup on, listen to your voice.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's funny. I get a lot of DMs sometimes being like, I don't even wear makeup, but there's just such catharticism and watching you put your makeup on, and I'm like, whoa. What? I. I like it.

[Kirby]

I'm like, also, because you're so stunning. Like, it's really.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It'll make me cry.

[Sarah]

Walking billboard for your work.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Sweet.

[Sarah]

Okay, Katie, let's talk about the five things that are always in your kit and why.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, my God. Glossier stretch concealer. Because it works on everybody, and it is the most gorgeous, glisteny, healthy skin, like concealer that ever existed. And I wish I made it. I actually wouldn't consider it a concealer. I consider it a tinted moisturizer balm. That is what it should be classified as. No shade to the PD team who developed that product, but it is more of a tinted moisturizer solid than it is a concealer, in my opinion. Another glossier mention, which you guys are going to absolutely hate me for.

[Sarah]

What? Oh, my God.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

What?

[Sarah]

I'm scared.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The eyebrow pencil.

[Kirby]

Oh, no.

[Sarah]

We love the eye pencil.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I know, I know, and I know the problem with the. With the white, peely packaging. Can you please. It's been fixed, I believe.

[Sarah]

Is it?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I believe it's been fixed. I believe it's been fixed. I believe it's been fixed. I believe it's been fixed. Is it? Because we think it's probably. Probably. But no, there's. That's another one. I was like, damn, I wish I did that first. It is just such a damn good pencil.

[Kirby]

So good.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Soft raisin from KGH brand is always. If it's. If it soft starts getting low, I put in a fresh one straight away. What else? Oh, my God. I'm, like, literally trying to envisage my kit right now at the Mario palettes. The new. The neutrals and the. And the. And the two neutral ones. Love them to death. And Tower 28's mascara is something that I always have in my kit. And I actually scribble like, you know, like Lily Allen's for example, has like her name on it in my kit so that I use the same, you know, the one on her. And so yeah, it's one of my favorite develop that. No, I didn't. But as soon as I first tried it, I was like, oh my God, this is a banger. And it's going to be an amazing one. Actually, that one. I have two favorite mascaras. That one and the hooda. One coat wow. One coat wow is also incredible. Was that five?

[Kirby]

Yes, that was five. Look at you. So amazing.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I was decisive of me for a labor.

[Kirby]

Yes. I love that.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I'm normally not that decisive. Very, very.

[Kirby]

Okay, so you learned makeup watching your mom. She was a cabaret singer. Can you tell us like what you absorbed from just like watching watching her put her makeup on?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think it was. My mom had a specific look when she would go on stage. It was red lips, jet black lashes, way too much bronzer hair back home to the gods. Like, you know, you would think that she was from Dallas in the 80s if you would have seen my mom's hair back then. And always just like really manicured red nails or nails exactly like Sarah's right now. Beautiful long French tip situations. And I think for me, the impact came from seeing this woman of four children, all in varying age, very busy lifestyle with, you know, kids, some kids in school, some kids out of school. And then on a Thursday, Friday and a Saturday, she would completely transform into this cabaret star. So cool. And like, I think from a kid, you know, no shade to my mom, but she'd just be in the house wearing a caftan, like, no makeup on, hair kind of all over the place. Last night's mascara on, probably, you know, she was definitely a little, a little. A little under. Under polished while she was at home just dealing with her morning, like many of us are. But then that transformation was wild.

[Kirby]

That's so funny.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And I remember vividly the products that she would use.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay. What were they?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Pan Stick foundation from Max Factor. 2000 calorie mascara from Max Factor. What even is that? Yeah, it was called 2000 calorie mascara. I don't really understand why, but I'm sure it's googleable.

[Kirby]

You want your lashes to be a full meal maybe.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And then it was a red lipstick and it. I don't remember the red lipstick as much as I remember her microphone. She always used to use this Shure SM58 microphone and there was always red lipstick sort of embedded into the grid or the metal part because of how close she would hold a mic to her mouth.

[Kirby]

So yeah, that's so special.

[Sarah]

Max Factor.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And it would smell like makeup. Max Factor on my mum back then was. Yeah. And then she loved the, you know, Maybelline moose dream. That moose. Oh my gosh, isn't it woman after this dream.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Loved it.

[Kirby]

Who did it? Who did it? Right, okay. So you have come such a long way from being. You were a nail artist.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, that's when I met you.

[Sarah]

Seriously. Oh my God, that's crazy. I recreated one of her looks for a popsugar video and I thought it was so cool and that's how we connected.

[Kirby]

You'll have to link it. I want to watch it. Fast forward to now. You have like over a million followers across social, which is just so insane. Like we said earlier, everyone is following you. Like, you know, we're buying our makeup products. Like, could you ever, ever imagine that you would be here today? And when you look back, like, is there maybe an early moment that feels like it set you on this path? Maybe not intentionally, but you were like, okay, wow, that was a really important moment in my career.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think there's been many of them that kind of all collectively come together to sort of set the trajectory of what it is that you're going to do. I think me as a person, I've always been a yes person as much as I can be and always said yes to opportunities and always been very malleable in my way. And like, you know, when I, I was 16, I wanted to be a pop star. Then my mum was like, go get a job in a nail salon. I dropped out of high school, in college, didn't do any. I haven't got any formal qualifications of any sort, even as far as as young as primary school because I just didn't do well. I did not excel in classrooms at all. I struggled and I felt like I was always left behind and the teachers didn't really. I felt like the teachers weren't really putting in emphasis to support me more. Anyway, I dropped out of everything and my mum was like, go get a job in a nail salon and just learn a trade. My dad was a builder, my brother's a builder or my mom's a singer. We're all self employed people, people. And she kind of was just like, go learn a trade and a craft. I think she secretly just wanted me to do her nails for free for the rest of her life and stay in my hometown and just be my mom's nail tech. But then I moved down to London and wanted to pursue a music career. Found myself working at a space in K as, like, a side hustle, and realized, oh, my God, makeup is totally in my veins. And then I think I realized that watching my mom all of these years was probably the reason why I used makeup as such a transformative thing. For me as a kid at school, that wasn't really in any kind of certain clique or group of people, makeup was my outlet to make me feel more beautiful and make me feel more like myself. And, you know, the transition of those looks was definitely wild and crazy, as you can imagine. And I think it was just like a. The trajectory just evolved of what it was going to be through me just being open to being malleable and changing my course of. Of the way that my career was supposed to go. And I think for me, what my end goal was actually not. And this might sound a little bit superficial, but I didn't necessarily have my heart set on something other than I wanted to be successful at whatever it was that I. That I was going to go towards. It could have been music, it could have been nail tech, it could have been makeup, but makeup felt like the one that I was going to go the furthest in, so that's where I stuck.

[Sarah]

So you're known for this very painterly touch, like, from priming the brush to. Even when I was doing my makeup this morning, watching you use the Mary Phillips palette, and you were, like, so good. Just a big, fluffy brush and just kind of paint, like, it just kind of felt. Not haphazard.

[Kirby]

Your face is a canvas, and you're using the makeup as it is.

[Sarah]

Yes. And. And also this, like, really beautiful, dewy skin. This, like, luminescent skin. When did that aesthetic click for you and how has it evolved?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think where it clicked was actually this transition of my work as an assistant makeup artist in fashion and then me getting onto social media. And I realized that when I got onto social media in 2016, doing makeup more. So after my Buster London career sort of, you know, started to dwindle and. And come to a close, I realized that not many people online in 2016 were preaching fresh skin. It was all very baked, very beat, very heavy, like, blocky brows. Everything was everything. It was everything and everything and everything and more. And I was like, damn, this isn't what we're taught in fashion and editorial makeup. We're taught to remember vividly, like, the skin should look like skin. Like, the skin should look like they've got nothing on it, but it's perfect. So conceal just where you need to. And that was one of the first things that was ingrained in me as an assistant makeup artist, was get the skin to look the best thing first. Then everything else. Accessorizing. Eyes, lips, cheeks, whatever, look even better because the skin doesn't look overly done and overly heavy. Uh, and that. And then I think that the opportunity was wide open for me to be the person to tell that story of that editorial, fresh skin, but with these fun sort of pops of color online that weren't. Wasn't really being done. Um, and there was definitely some frowned upon energy that came my way, you know, around that time. And you know, are you an influencer? Are you a makeup artist? Which one are you? And that's a whole.

[Sarah]

Which is crazy because now it's like.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

For a different day regardless. Totally.

[Sarah]

Yes. You have to.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah. So.

[Sarah]

So you recently posted a video and you were asking us to chime in if we thought that you were wearing too much makeup or if you liked it. Like, I want to know what the impetus was for that.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

With anything on social media, I really love to have conversations with people and I like to understand, for example, if there's a comment about something that maybe I'm wearing. Like, for example, I did a video with Glamzilla last week a few weeks ago for her bridal series, and there was a few comments in the chat that was like, beautiful makeup, but it's not bridal makeup. This is way too little for bridal makeup. And I, I challenged some of those comments and I like to call myself a bit of a teeny, tiny clapback queen. I go in and I'm like, it's maybe not enough bridal makeup for you, but it is for somebody that doesn't wear makeup at all ever. So then it's the perfect amount for that person. And there's nothing. Everybody likes different things for different reasons. Right. And so I think that it kind of came from there and I think it came from me wanting to understand what. Because I put out what I put out and I just take for granted that people might like it, but I've never really opened the floor for comments in that way. And it's actually quite interesting, the commentary.

[Kirby]

Also, she ended up not wearing makeup.

[Sarah]

For her wedding.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Do you know what? And I love that she did that because it was like she knew when I, when I was with her that morning, I was like, so what are you what kind of look are you gonna do? She's like, I'm actually not gonna do anything because he prefers me in my most natural, like, you know, natural way. And I was like, oh, my God. I love that because. But I want to have these experiences. And so this is the. And I think it's a great opportunity to show so many different versions of bridal makeup.

[Kirby]

Yeah, she did. That was really fun.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It was so cool, though.

[Sarah]

It's really cool.

[Kirby]

Like you said, every look was so different, whether it was, like, James Charles doing her makeup or Vanessa.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, it was incredible.

[Kirby]

Okay. Speaking of, like, being online and having to create content, what do you think people most misunderstand about you being, like, a working makeup artist but also this, like, social media star influencer?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I don't know. I think that the two do come hand in hand. I think that I get, like, look what Kobe said. It's like, you really can be both. Nowadays. I think sometimes I get quite frustrated with my community easily when it becomes too much about the product, because I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Take it way back. We're not talking about the product. We're talking about techniques. For me, it's always technique first. And if people. Like on a live. Two days ago on TikTok, I was, like, getting inundated with what's the best concealer? What's the best lip liner? I'm like, well, what's your skin type? Where do you live? Is it sticky? Sticky and hot where you live? Because then I wouldn't. I wouldn't recommend stretch concealer unless you are bone dry in the core of your body. Like, there's so many variables. And as an educator online through, you know, social media, I'd be doing a disservice to just be like, nars in the pot, because that might not work for you.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite concealers.

[Sarah]

You're reading my mind. Because nars in the pot, initially, I was using it with a brush, and I just felt like it was way too heavy for me. And I always felt like I was wearing just a ton of makeup.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

How is it now?

[Sarah]

I take a little spatula, take the tiniest bit, warm it up, and then just kind of pat it, and it's incredible.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think the two best concealers on the market are actually stretch concealer and nars in the pot.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they're both.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The hybrid of those two is one of my favorite things. Totally.

[Kirby]

I am bone dry, as you know. And you like Literally. Yeah, but literally any product that you recommend that you like for you, I'm like, yes, it works for me. Anytime I do something and I like it, and then you're like, I love it. I always feel validated.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh my God. But that's so interesting because I would consider myself as a combination skin type.

[Kirby]

Really?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Okay. But like, I'm glad to know that that works.

[Kirby]

Like the makeup forever, the tinted that, like, when you were using, I was like, oh my God. I feel validated because it works on me.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Amazing.

[Kirby]

Anyways, I. I mean, I. Anything that you recommend, I love it. But to your point, it is like, I feel like people ask us too all the time. Like, they're like, what's the five products?

[Sarah]

Everybody thinks that there is a magic potion.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Right.

[Sarah]

And it's not about the potion, it's about the technique. It's about the spell.

[Kirby]

You know, how you like to look, you know? Yeah. It's all very custom and personal.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It is. And like any one ingredient in your routine can make or break another product. Totally. Like, if you put lip balm under a road peptide lip treatment. A road peptide lip shape. Sorry.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It ain't gonna last.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

But if you use it by itself, it will last a bit longer. It's like the education is key.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

And you were talking about your. It's the stylo. Is that the name? Okay, so when you were doing your lip shape tutorial, you were like, okay, you're gonna do the four little points. You're gonna bring it on the actual lip line, not above or whatever.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You can powder it, but like make sure there's no lip balm. Make sure there's nothing.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Right.

[Sarah]

It's kind of like with lashes in a way where I'm like, if my lashes aren't like powder dry, I'm not going to like the look of my lashes. Yeah, like, they're not going to fan out the way I need them to.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Wow.

[Sarah]

So wait, what do you mean by that? So I take a powder brush and just kind of like what you do with residual foundation or concealer. I just kind of powder my eyebrows and then brows.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, wow.

[Sarah]

My brows.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Better mascara application.

[Sarah]

Yes, it helps to. It doesn't clump and it always stands things out.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Well, you know, it's funny cuz I hate putting mascara on if I'm ever like banging out content throughout the day. I cannot curl my lashes or put mascara on after I've just washed my face. Cuz they won't do anything at all.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

They're wet. Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Dry it out, Dry it out, babe. It gives you there just like a really pretty fanned out effect. Especially like with so many different types.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I mean, your lashes look amazing right now.

[Kirby]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

But like so many different types of mascaras. Right? Like even, you know, I love a bristle brush. Sarah does this. I love a bristle.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You prefer a bristle versus a molded. Yep. Oh, then you'll like what we've got coming.

[Sarah]

Oh, I cannot always.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I'm so glad you just said that because I was kind of doubting that we were making the right choice.

[Sarah]

Oh, no, it's way too many molded.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I think there's way too many molded brushes and so. But if I am using one and testing it out to see if I really like it, I will always make sure my. I always, in general, make sure my lashes are powdered.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So trying that.

[Kirby]

Is that an exclusive?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, I mean, it's way, way, way fully ready.

[Sarah]

Teasing.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

A lip thing. Which one? Oh, yeah, yeah. The shimmery crown.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, yeah. Maybe they're in my bag. I'll show them to you.

[Sarah]

So exciting.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So many things coming. Oh, my God, I love product development so much.

[Sarah]

Okay, so speaking of KJH launched in 2023.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

What was the white space you were wanting to fill?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You know, it came from a place of somebody. Two people, I think in the same week said, what's the best highlight of oily skin? Then somebody else said, what's the best highlight for dry skin? And I was like, well, those are two different things. So I'm going to make something that, that works for both of you that you just use slightly differently depending on your skin type. Because for me, like, what I'm realizing my PD product development ethos is as a founder, is if I can educate with it, I'll make it. If I can teach somebody how to use product better through my product or just through education online, then I've done my job. So for me, it was like, products I can educate with. Truly, totally. And kind of making it more complicated off the bat to therefore hopefully teach.

[Kirby]

Are there any non negotiables you insisted on when you're like, doing your development? That makes it like, when you pick it up, you're like, oh, this is very kjh. This is very Katie Jane Hughes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

From a texture perspective, I'm pretty picky on texture and how something sits on the skin. Like, I wouldn't ever want to make. I'd never make a highlighter that basically, like, is one of those Ones that, you know, you apply it to the face and then all of the solution completely evaporates or dries into the skin, and then you're just left with shimmer and pearl on the top of the surface of the skin and hate that so much. For me, something always have to. Has to have a lifelike texture to it for it to be a beautiful makeup product. Within reason, obviously. And then as far as packaging, like, we're having this storytelling, packaging, evolution, where things are color coded to category. So anything in purple will be multiple use. Anything in green will be complexion. Anything silver is going to be skin care. Anything yellow is going to be tools, by the way. I know.

[Kirby]

Amazing.

[Sarah]

Yes. Yeah. I love all of your stuff.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Thank you. You're so sweet.

[Sarah]

You mentioned the road lip shape.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And using that.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And obviously that was such a huge topic of conversation online. People were like, this is dumb. Whatever. I personally love it.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I love it.

[Sarah]

Is there another product that you think has gotten a bad rap because of social media and because of the lack of education around it?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, God. I'm sure there's so many. I'm sure there's so many off the top of my head. I don't even know. Maybe I'll think about this and you can pop them on the screen or something. I. I think, yeah, definitely off the top of my head. I don't know what it is, but I think. I think with everything, education is so important with every topic. And it brings me back to that conversation or that comment in TikTok yesterday where somebody was like, what's the best lip liner? And I'm like, it doesn't matter what the best lip liner is. It matters how you're using a product. You could use the peptide lip shape and put a tiny bit of powder over it, or if you mix it with another lip liner to create, you know what I mean? It's like everything is what you make. It is a product that's got a bad rap. What can you try to think?

[Sarah]

I mean, of course, road gets so much, you know, love and hate because of obvious reasons.

[Kirby]

One that pops up in my head is the Jones road. That, like, foundation.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, what?

[Sarah]

The foundation?

[Kirby]

What's the foundation?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

But then I think that kind of got a funny rap because of how it had her video that, you know, was like her kind of, you know, viral trend that she would do of putting on all this foundation.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And I actually thought that foundation was really beautiful.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The thing I don't like about it is the scent, but other than that, I think it's a beautiful product. The thing about the one thing from Jones Road that I think is a product that I haven't ever got to grasps with is the. The bomb glossy, the balm in the gel in the pot. Because it's kind of. I'm like, I want more from it.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, me too. Like pigment.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, yeah, something like that. But it's also. I'm not that. Maybe I'm not that demographic.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I want products that are really concentrated and, you know, and I think back to Cub's point earlier about. Or maybe it was your point about me always talking about fellow makeup artists, friends. Like, I think we're really in that time right now. I think it's coming back around. I remember when Linda Cantello had a makeup brand, and, you know, Nas was one of the first makeup artists to have a brand. It's like, we're cut. It's coming right back around to that point now, which I think is amazing.

[Sarah]

People want to trust who they're purchasing from.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Right.

[Sarah]

And have that education.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

What excites you right now?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The brand. And just, like, getting my teeth into production and product development and really coming up with cool ideas that make people think. I actually. It was weird. Like, I thought of this quote last night and I wrote it down and sent my team a text message at midnight, and I felt terrible. I was like, I'm so sorry. Please ignore this until. Until. Because of the time difference. But what was it that I said? I was like, makeup. Makeup that makes you better at makeup. Like, that should be our brand tagline.

[Kirby]

Oh, I love that makeup.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

KGH brand products will ideally make you better at makeup. Is the. Is the. Is the sort of ethos. I love that through. Yeah. Product development. I want to teach. And therefore, you'll be better at makeup because you're learning so much more.

[Sarah]

Are there any trends? And when I talk to makeup artists, they hate trends.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, I hate trends so much. But.

[Kirby]

But things you're like, on social media.

[Sarah]

The nature of your social media, there are trends, Right. Are there any trends that get you excited or any that worry you?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Trends worry me. Are probably like, the kind of at home stuff like that freaks me out a little bit. I'm like, oh, this is like, leave it to. Some things should be left to the professionals. Yeah. I would never take a derma roller at home and start derma rolling my face or dermaplan or. I mean, dermaplaning is different, but, like, needles in your face, like.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Just get yourself Some SOS mist, stat, just to protect your skin. If you're going to start doing things like that and then things that excite me, honestly, is just people playing again. I feel like makeup is having. Yes. We've been in this, like, very natural, you know, Haley. Haley kind of gorgeous. And even Kylie has been an amazing sort of advocate for just a more lesson is more kind of glam. Shelby, her makeup artist, and Ariel do gorgeous, gorgeous work on her. She also can do her own makeup so well. But I think it's beautiful to see these girls that have been famously known for this beat taking a more soft, beautiful, subtle approach. But I do feel like what's happening again is it's coming right back around. The skin is still fresh, but the color and the playfulness is also coming back into play, which I'm really here for. And I think, like, Alex French is an amazing, amazing representation of that from a makeup artist perspective.

[Kirby]

And just watching her, she listens. She's gonna be so excited when she.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Hears that shout out.

[Kirby]

Okay, well, I'll tell you something that we're worried about. And you. I'm so excited to know what you think about that. Okay, so filters.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, yeah. Terrify.

[Kirby]

Like, it's terrifying. Like, you're like, what is real, what.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Is not, y', all, I saw a.

[Sarah]

Chihuahua get arrested by Ice via Sora. Okay? And people in the comments were like, they're arresting dogs.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I'm like, oh, my God.

[Sarah]

I know, I know. I. I know, I know.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I don't know.

[Sarah]

I was like, it says Sora everywhere. But the thing about Soar that's so crazy is it doesn't pop up until five seconds in.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, I don't even know what Sora is.

[Sarah]

Sora is, like, the new AI app.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So, like.

[Sarah]

And I. I remember watching a video on TikTok and being like, this is so we. Oh, it was an amusement park ride for the Insurrection. And I was like, okay, this is not real, clearly. But in the comments, people were like, which. Which amusement park is this? I'm like, this is not at Universal Studios, babe. Like, this is a fake thing, but.

[Kirby]

It looks so real, and people are.

[Sarah]

Now starting to get duped. Like, it's scary.

[Kirby]

So I was listening to NPR yesterday, and there was an AI reporter and the.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The.

[Kirby]

Another guest, and they were trying to watch. They watched three videos, and they had to guess which was, like, AI and which was not. And one of them was a cat on a treadmill, and it, like, ran into the, like, treadmill or whatever, and the reporter was like, it looks real and it wasn't. And you know, speaking of the watermark, there are. There are tutorials for how to remove that watermark.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So it's scary.

[Sarah]

It's scary because it's now just being normalized. Like, I saw this video of like a thousand bunny rabbits jumping on a trampoline, and it had like millions and millions of views. And I remember, and I got duped by it. I was like, this is so.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

That's my theme. So crazy. It's like, what is real cute?

[Sarah]

And then I'm like, oh, my God, this. Because it looks like it's like a backyard ring camera.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I know.

[Sarah]

And then I'm like, it's not.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I know. It's so crazy. But it, as it relates to beauty.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Echo that fear.

[Sarah]

Help me.

[Kirby]

Like, I just, I think too, I worry for the children and, you know, they.

[Sarah]

And us, and us truly and our.

[Kirby]

Parents, because, I mean, they're the ones that are getting but like, of what is actually real. And I feel like the standards of beauty. Yeah, we've, we've progressed. But then now with AI, it's like, oh, we're back to where we started.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Totally. I feel like we should have this, like, movement online, maybe that we should start where we start using ugly filters so that we love ourselves more in real life as opposed to pretty filters where therefore, when we're always trying to perfect something. Like me and my, my. My hairdresser husband, Peter Lux, always mess around on the Snapchat filters. The ones that make us look totally not like that. We are in a bit uncute. And then, I don't know, we find them really funny. But it's. But it's. Yeah, it's scary. I think I'm worried for careers and jobs and things like that a little bit. It's like, nothing's gonna need. You know, a makeup artist is going to be an exempt category at some point in the, in the history. I think there's a time and a place for it if you're like trying to brainstorm or you're trying to like, come up with mood boarding, things like that. But it should be regulated. I think I was going to say.

[Sarah]

Has AI affected you at all in your career?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I mean, in the sense that I get my videos being used and there's a deep fake voice selling some sort of weight loss supplement here and there from like Brazil or something. I'm like, oh, cool, great. That's not my voice. Nor is it my mouth and my teeth are different. But it's my Face. And I'm like, ugh. People send it to me. My community send it to me online. And I'm like, oh, shit. Okay, cool.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's rampant. It's rampant. Arielle Laurie went through that. Oh, yeah. Where she's a. A podcaster and somebody was using her.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And if this footage of you online, it's like, yeah, they can do. Okay.

[Kirby]

We have so many questions, just, like, general tips and advice from you, so let's jump in. This is going to be difficult, but is there a mistake that you see people making a lot on tutorials? Right. Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

What is it over blending. Like, I see people. I'm just going to fake. My fingers are a brush like this. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You're taking it off. You want to do more of this and more of this. Like, every. Everything should be gentle and light. Like, people. When I. When I apply makeup on them, you know, they'll be like, oh, my God, it's so gentle. I barely feel these brushes on my face. This, like, abrasive. That's Buffing is bad unless you're using, like, a dense foundation and you've got full coverage and you need to blend it in. Separate story. But pressure and aggressive blending needs to be less.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I'm trying to be more gentle.

[Sarah]

I was just so, like, laissez faire.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

When I was doing, like, let's just be like Bob Ross. Just like Little Tree.

[Kirby]

Because anytime I get my makeup done, I'm like, oh, wow, you're so, like, light on my skin.

[Sarah]

I know. It's because we're, like, always in a.

[Kirby]

Hurry, but it's true. Because you're like, where is it after it's gone because you blended it in too much. Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

What are three tools or brushes that everybody should own?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, my God. Three tools or brushes everybody should own.

[Kirby]

You can shout out your brushes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

One of them is actually a face cloth, I think a face cloth or a flannel. One of the small, square hand towel type things. I think everybody should wash their face with one of those.

[Sarah]

You and Kris Jenner?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

No, it's literally. Does she wash her face with a flannel?

[Kirby]

It's like her favorite beauty advice.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's literally an exfoliator. It helps you get your makeup off better. It removes the cleanser from your face. It is literally. I will not wash my face without. Without a cloth or a flannel or a face cloth or towel, whatever you want to call it. And the cheaper, the better.

[Kirby]

I only do that when I'm at a hotel so I don't have to.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Wash. Oh, my God. Amazing. I mean, I just have. I have like a stack of like 10 of them in my laundry hamper and then I throw it in the washing machine when I'm done. So that's my number one. My number two is a really good concealer brush or a foundation brush or whatever it is that you want. The number two from KJH brand. It's like a little thumb and it's kind of like a little. You can pack on foundation with it or you can blend blush with it, or you can put highlighter on with it.

[Sarah]

What does it look like? Is it fluffy or is it more dense?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's a dense one.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And then my number three tool. I feel like a good eyebrow spoolie is really important and kind of underserved. But then I guess you could do what I was about to say with an eyebrow gel. We're launching an eyebrow gel in a few weeks called Nano Brow Set. Heard it here first. And it's like a micro wand. You can do your brows with it and then you can also do like groom your hair back with it if you want to. So maybe that because it's a tool, but it's also got formula.

[Sarah]

I would not be able to survive without a spoolie.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

But actually, I'm going to give you some secret tips for spoolies.

[Sarah]

Tell me.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Dry skin, Grab a spoolie. Glitter stuck on a part of your face that you don't want it to be on. Grab a spoolie. Mascara still on your eyelid from accidental over application. Grab a spoolie. Like the spoolie is, you know, dry skin on the lips. Grab a. Grab a spoolie. Like a spoolie. Like there's a hair stuck to your skin because you just put moisturizer on spoolie. It's the best thing.

[Sarah]

No, that's what I'm saying. I. I think a spoolie is my most used tool because I get mascara all over my eyeball. Let it dry, flick it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hairs on your face.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's a good tip. I mean, that's a great question.

[Sarah]

Such a good tip.

[Kirby]

Okay, for anyone who struggles with creasing or patchiness, what is your go to fix?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Get your flannel out. You need your face cloth to get rid of that dry skin. I think it all starts with cleansing. We are going to develop a cleanser at KGH brand and it's going to have a very unique Name because of the unique perspective on how we're going to take. I'll tell you off the record in a bit. So nobody from other PD teams steal it before I can do it. But I think cleansing really sets your skin up for success with all of those problems that you might have. But I think, again, gentle pressure, not over applying product, really working products into the bristles first and sort of letting them find their way on the face. And if something does go patchy, the solve is if it's patchy and flaky from dry skin, you could only pound some sort of glossier future do. Stick into a brush and then pack it on top because that will flatten down the dry, flaky bits. And then wash your face and start fresh the next day. But patchiness, when it comes to, like, pigment setting powder in a brush, really put it on well and then start trying to work in the other color. But working with powders versus creams.

[Sarah]

Wait, what's your favorite powder?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Do you know what I'm loving right now is the loose one from Hourglass. Oh, my God. I'm wearing it today. I think it's one of the best powders I've ever used in my life. Beautiful. It makes I feel like I look like a filter.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I mean, the concept of AI, like, I think it makes me look. But I mean, Carissa, the founder, I remember the first ever thing that I heard her say in a room was at the Rose Inc. Masterclass in New York. She was like, when I grew up, we had pink light bulbs in our house when I was a child, because my mom loved the aura and the radiance that you would get from pink light bulbs. And I was just like, you are an icon and your mum is a legend. And I'm obsessed with that story.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Isn't that so iconic? Because we look prettier in pink light and slightly pink lighting, apparently. And that's maybe where. And that's where the inspiration came from. For the. For the. For the. For the. What's the product called with the sheen? Oh, like pink one and the pearly one. They all.

[Sarah]

Why is my name something light palette?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Why am I blanking on the name? Wait, have you tried the glossier double ended cheek brush?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yes. It's very good.

[Sarah]

It's so cool.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's really cool.

[Sarah]

That one end, that's like squishy.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's so great. It's so great. And also, like, for so many other things too. Like, you could use it for a little bit of concealer. Like for concealer, pounded on with the spongy side and then buff it out with a brush. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Also just so cute.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's so cute.

[Kirby]

I love it.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's a great job.

[Sarah]

Okay, what are your best tips for achieving that real skin glow without looking greasy?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think real skin glow without looking greasy. Small brushes. Because when you use small brushes, you're more selective about where things go, because if you use too big of a brush, then you're not in control of where the brush is going to go. So using small things no bigger than a fingertip or two, like highlight, very strategically. Like, if you want to be controlled and like, really, really matte, but you also want to look radiant, powder the crap out of your face. Take a highlighter or highlight first. Or it depends on the your skin type and what products you're using to which would go first. But pinpoint placement would be the sort of takeaway sound bite for that. Because it's like if you powder everywhere and you make yourself really matte, you could take, like, the number three brush from KGH brand, which is that little fan brush, the small, teeny fan brush, and you could dip it in a little bit of the highlighter and just strategically place little moments of highlight in areas. That way you're going to have a controlled matte skin all day long, but you're also going to look radiant and dewy. But nothing's going to merge because it's. It's. It's small size key.

[Sarah]

The opposite of our friend Melissa Herkman, who is also a makeup artist. She talks about strategic powdering.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You guys kind of look alike.

[Sarah]

People think we're sisters.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I didn't realize that until just now. Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

I love you. Do my makeup soon.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, my God. I would love to see that hanging out.

[Kirby]

Paris Hilton.

[Sarah]

No, literally. She's like, with Paris every day of her life. So busy. But she came on and talked about strategic powder powdering, and I feel like, y', all. It's like the. That's the mirrored approach.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

No, But I also agree with strategic powdering, because I don't use powder. I don't overly use powder either, but I think if you're like, I guess if you're somebody that's really oily, that loses makeup throughout the day, you would approach it that way. But if you're dry, you would do it. You do more glow and less powder. Totally. It's like a tailored.

[Kirby]

Again, to each their own. Okay, you're going out. What's in your tiny purse?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I look my prism My precision sculpture stylo. Probably an etch or chisel, or if I'm going for a vampy kind of more. More goth chic look, I'll go for forge, which is the almost black shade, and then whatever color is in the middle.

[Sarah]

Wait, black on your lips? You would do black?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, because when you shear it down, it's very, very, very badly there. And it just gives this cool, gray kind of grungy, very like Jenna Ortega Wednesday Adams vibe when she said. When she's. When she's not on character, but when she's on red carpet.

[Sarah]

Cool.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Because I love her. I love what. I love what Lily Keys and who's her makeup artist?

[Sarah]

Melanie.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Melanie. I love what they're doing with her. I think it's so good. Awesome. I'm like, bleach my eyebrows now.

[Sarah]

Said you didn't go on with my eyebrow. Did you see? I bleached my eyebrows.

[Kirby]

Kirby looks.

[Sarah]

I bleached them for Lady Gaga.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah. It looked so good on you.

[Sarah]

I was kind of shocked.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Did you bleach them or did you do it with makeup?

[Sarah]

No, I bleached them.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Did. And you put them back yourself and everything? You did it all yourself?

[Sarah]

You just.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I mean, yeah, I was kind of.

[Sarah]

Like, I want to keep them. And my mom was horrified. She was like, no, my mom's woman.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Okay.

[Sarah]

She was like, absolutely not.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I screaming.

[Kirby]

Two alternatives.

[Sarah]

Kirby.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I love it.

[Sarah]

Okay, last question. We have a lot of. We have a wide demographic of listeners from, you know, Gen Z to boomers, and we have women that have more mature skin. They're rethinking their makeup application. What should they look for in complexion products if they want a smoother, more flawless finish without emphasizing texture or looking too heavy? Is it just technique?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think it is technique. Sorry to say. I know it's an annoying because people want product recommendations, but I do think that, like, sometimes, I don't know. I'm really into, like, product plug here for a second. I'm really into, like, what brands like Sarah Creel are doing because they're approaching, you know, makeup from a more mature category, mature person, you know, perspective. So I think. I think. I don't think there's anything to say. Oh. By the brands of your particular age group, because makeup is ageless. It's. It's. It's sizeless. It's whatever. I think it's. Your skin type is the thing that you should take into account first. But my big tip and my biggest advice for foundation for anyone, especially if you're trying to Find a new one is do not put anything under it at all for the first time that you try it. So when you go into a Sephora, or any store for that matter, to try a foundation, ask for a sample or go in with no makeup on, no skincare, nothing, and try the foundation on and just live with it and see what it does on your skin without interference from your serums, your skincares, your SPFs, because then you'll know what you need to supplement it with. And that might be confusing because you're like, well, no, because I kind of need it to work for my skincare because I want my skincare to be a part of my face. But it's so. It's a. It's a contradictory kind of question. But it's like, people are like, how do I get my foundation to last all day long? And I'm like, what's under it? And they're like a serum, a moisturizer, an SPF at this. And I'm like, well, what happens if you go outside wearing a vest, a sweater, and a coat on a sunny day? You're gonna sweat. So I think that there's. There's two ways to approach it, but I think trying the foundation on to see what it's going to do on your skin, because even with skincare on, your skin's still going to perspire in certain areas, because that's just what your skin's going to do. So I think it just gives you the opportunity to say, well, I get really sweaty in my T zone, so maybe I need less moisturizer right there. So that's more where perspective is coming from. It's not saying take away those products and only wear foundation and find the right foundation for your skin type. It's. It's more of a process of elimination. Technique, Technique or tactic. But I think technique and pressing something in is always better than dragging something when you drag something. When people ask, oh, how do you stop streaks in foundation? My first tip is always to say, stop, Stop dragging. Do more tapping. Do more of, like, you know, maybe grab a beauty blender instead if you're struggling with, you know, brush, brush, brush strokes. But something I learned from Pixie Woo sisters years ago was this technique called cross hatching and, like, sort of going back and forth with your brush as opposed to sweeping and just finishing with a tap. Blend, finish, finish the blend with a tap will always take away streaks.

[Sarah]

Tap, pat, prime. Yep. I feel like there is, like, some kind of tagline, some actionable.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yes, yes. Priming is a technique, not a product. Sorry.

[Kirby]

No, that's a great answer. Is there a moisturizer that you like to use pre makeup?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

No. I am obsessed with the new IS Clinical Emulsion. No, it's not even called emulsion. What is it called? It's. It's the new one that they just launched and it is one of the best things. I don't know why my skin just feels so gorgeous and glowy with it on. I took a picture of it the day before yesterday. I love it so much. What is the name?

[Sarah]

I can't remember the name of it. Because it's this. It's a new imperative. Yeah, it's. It's. And also has like a new ingredient or something that they have.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Trademarked Is clinical or created.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's so good.

[Sarah]

I went to the IS Clinical labs in Burbank. It was amazing.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I need to get into this brand so much more because everybody that I know, everybody that's an expert that I know is obsessed with it and. Oh, Daily Dynamic Hydrator.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

With Gen Y. Gen X technology.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Yes. And they have a serum.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, yeah. People rave about that stuff. I need to, like, get a whole routine going.

[Sarah]

No, I usually wear that, but this morning, for whatever reason, I was like, I'm just going to do the serum and then my Ulta MD sunscreen. It's so moisturizing, like. But I. To your point about moisturizer or like, what's underneath your makeup? I always find I like doing my makeup at night before I go to events because I don't have to wear sunscreen or as much skin care.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Boosting what you've already got on or do you start again?

[Sarah]

No, like if I'm taking a shower and getting ready to go from fresh. Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Do you ever boost your makeup throughout the day if you're going out at night? Like, do you ever work on top? Yes. Do you like working on top or are you like. I prefer to start sometimes.

[Sarah]

I'm like, yeah, it is what it is. Like, it's like I have to do it, but I don't feel like it looks that great.

[Kirby]

Really.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I think priming. I think makeup that's already on primes for better makeup application.

[Kirby]

Really?

[Sarah]

Maybe. I think sometimes because around my nose I get, like, really oily, so it comes off. So then sometimes I can. Depending on my skin doing.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

It can get a little patchy here because I've, like, put on too much or, like, didn't, like, put like a.

[Kirby]

Mist on to, like, sort of refresh yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I'd probably use a beauty sponge or beauty blender and really wet it and just refresh everything and get the moisture back into my skin and then start to start afresh.

[Sarah]

We could spend hours.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Honestly, how many more questions? How many? I mean, I could talk to you girls for hours and days and weeks.

[Sarah]

Okay, wait, so then reveal. So you have the, the. Am I saying it properly?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

It's, it's a mouthful. Precision sculpture. Stylo.

[Kirby]

Stylo.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Pss, pss. You have decisions.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

The lip, cheek, lip and cheek sticks, the soft smudge and the highlighter, which we're currently in the middle of having to reformulate one of our shades because as soon as we launched the product. This is the downside of product development, everybody. As soon as we launched the product and it hit market, we learned from our vendor who makes the product for us, that the raw material supplier had discontinued one of the ingredients across the formula. And so we had to start again with the formula and we're struggling to get the pink to where it needs to be. So that's unfortunate. But again, it's more a time thing and people like, when's the pink back in stock? When's the pink back in stock? I'm not going to restock it until it's perfect. But that's just sort of the nature of the beauty. It's like the raw material vendors and these tariffs and these, you know, there's just so many things that don't. That aren't visible from the public that are things that sort of, you know, they're, they're little blockages in the road, but they make you grow and they make you learn and. Yeah, hopefully. We're meeting with Sephora on Monday in San Francisco. So we're going to launch Sephora next year.

[Sarah]

We're just not sure how you are.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah. Going to launch. Thanks. I'm excited. So excited. But we're just like, we're not sure if we're going to do the next big thing, one shelf situation or if we're going to do a one bay. Big decision because big, big difference in cost.

[Kirby]

Sure.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah. And I self funded the brand. We, we haven't raised any financing so we will need to raise to launch in a. On a one shot. On a one bay. You heard?

[Sarah]

I mean, of course.

[Kirby]

So all the investors come running.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Wow. Okay.

[Sarah]

That's amazing. And then you teased the eyebrow.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Eyebrow is coming first week of November, last week of October, first week of November. It's amazing. It's like, it's it's literally about a tagline for this brow gel. It would just be a damn good brow gel. Like, it's just a damn good brow gel that just works, like, lifts the brow, it holds the brow. It's not a lamination brow gel by any means. It's not one of the ones that sticks it up to your face. Because I think that's a trend that's kind of come and gone and it's, you know, it doesn't do that, but it's just a really great product. We actually just shot our campaign for a few days ago and we're shooting our actual model campaign all on iPhone. Just like really close up macro with a little lens. Can't wait to try that. Somebody called Beast Grip to like, really get some precision shots.

[Kirby]

Okay. Mascara cleanser to come.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Mascara cleanser. A really beautiful shimmery lip crayon. Maybe there's one in my bag. What else have we got? We've got an interesting double, double, double ended eyeliner concept in the works. I've got an interesting concealer concept in the works, but that is far away because, you know, I can't half. I mean, I don't want to half ass anything, but concealer is something that, you know, as a makeup artist, I think it's incredibly important for any brand now to be an inclusive brand. I think that I would be incredibly ashamed of myself as a makeup artist if I didn't create an inclusive, you know, shade range. So the. We're kind of like, where are we going to produce this? I really love this formula from a Korean lab, but it's not so easy to get to. And, you know, somebody on my team is a makeup artist from the black community, Fatima. And I'm like, where can we go? So we're probably going to formulate it in either Canada or America so that we can be there and be in the lab and in the plant all the time making sure the shades are right. And there's a mascara that we're working on. And one of the girls on my team, she's of Malaysian origin and she is like, I only use waterproof mascara. So I'm like, great. We're going to do two formulas. One will be waterproof. One, one. Because if you've got straight lashes that don't hold a curl, then you want a waterproof mascara. And so it's important. And it was funny actually on a call with, with, with Sephora, they're like, we don't really typically do well with, with waterproof mascars. I Was like, well, the Asian community wants waterproof mascars, so we'll make a waterproof scar.

[Sarah]

Oh, 100.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You wear a waterproof mascara.

[Kirby]

I wear lash extensions.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

There you go.

[Sarah]

That's what I'm saying.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Maybe. Maybe. It seems like I'm talking shout on Sephora.

[Sarah]

No, no, no.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Where I'm like. So they were like, we don't do well with waterproof mascars. I don't know.

[Kirby]

That's interesting to know.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

I mean, I get it, though. I don't wear waterproof mascara.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

But I like to have one for, like, if I'm gonna go to a wedding or if I'm like, it's really, really hot, and I want my makeup to last all day long. I don't know.

[Kirby]

Definitely gets a bad reputation.

[Sarah]

I feel if something claims to hold a curl, it typically has to have something in there that makes it waterproof or water resistant in order to. Okay, last question. We're almost done. Look at myself and Sarah. Tell us one thing that you would do to our faces.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, my gosh. Wait, different to what you've already done?

[Sarah]

Yep. Oh, that we should try.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Is this your makeup as you would wear it every single day?

[Kirby]

Yeah. And, like, rushing out the door. Like, I had, like, okay, 15 minutes.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

To do my makeup. I would line the crap out of your lips using etch. And I would go into your volume space, not the color space, because we've got two lip lines. One of them is the color of your mouth, color of your lips. One of them is this halo color. And I can see yours quite visibly. It's quite. It's like a white kind of edge. I would play in that space and make your lips juicier, even though they're already pretty full.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And then I don't know why I want to see this, but I want to see you in a skinnier brow.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

And I was actually gonna say yours. I want to see your brows higher.

[Sarah]

Okay. But you gotta teach me how to do that.

[Kirby]

I want your brows, actually.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, thanks. This is. Oh, my God. The new Anastasia Beverly Hills brow pen. The micro Micro stroke brow pen is the best eyebrow liner I've ever used in my life. And I'm wearing my brow gel with it. It's so freaking good.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Because of the way that you do your eyeliner right now. And is this how you wear your eyeliner every day? Pretty much straight out to that. Yeah. Because of the direction of your eyeliner, I want your eyebrows to follow that silhouette. Oh, so, like, how do I do that?

[Sarah]

I would have to shave.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Is this all hair down here?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Is this all hair?

[Kirby]

You have to get it shaped.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah. Oh, you could just like, you could test it through. Have you got microblading?

[Sarah]

I used to, but it's almost completely gone too.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Did you use acids to help get rid of it?

[Sarah]

No, I just. It just. I did it like 2015, so now it's like finally gone.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Yeah, same. Yeah. I'd be interested to see what your brows emulating like a more of a straight. Straight like so that they don't curve down as much, but they go a little bit more out to the sides.

[Sarah]

Okay. Oh, I'm going to try to.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Because I think it would really open up your eyes even more.

[Sarah]

Yes. Okay.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Oh, say, say last.

[Sarah]

I'll be going, when are you guys.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

In New York next?

[Sarah]

We don't have any plans to be there, but literally I'm like, I. Yeah, we'll go.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

We got to plan Los Angeles on the road and do like a roadshow and like a live podcast and then do one in New York and then I'll do makeup.

[Sarah]

We need to go to New York in general.

[Kirby]

You really do. I also, I would go just see what I would look like when you did my makeup.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

So that would be so fun. But like, actually I wouldn't change a thing cuz you both do your makeup so beautifully.

[Sarah]

Well, thank you.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You really do.

[Sarah]

Love you dearly.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

You really do.

[Sarah]

Tell us more.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Just, you both look gorgeous.

[Sarah]

We adore you.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Thank you for coming on.

[Sarah]

Everybody knows where to find you. We'll obviously tag her in the event that you're not already following her.

[Katie Jane Hughes]

We love you.

[Sarah]

Thank you. Thank you, guys.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really?

[Katie Jane Hughes]

Thanks.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone. Com. Bank, Capital One NA Member fdic.