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- [00:02]
Unknown Host
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [00:09]
Pace Case
Hi, I'm Pace Case.
- [00:11]
Bachelor Clues
And I'm Bachelor Clues.
- [00:12]
Pace Case
We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show on reality TV at the highest level possible. We analyze the Bachelor, Love is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.
- [00:27]
Bachelor Clues
We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like Bachelorette Kaitlyn Bristow and big Brother champion Taylor Hale.
- [00:38]
Pace Case
If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.
- [00:49]
Unknown Host
ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com G L A M Los Angeles.
- [01:04]
Kirby
Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles.
- [01:15]
Sarah
Okay, everyone, we're grinning from ear to ear. We're very excited. Today's guest is. I mean, these accolades are crazy. First trans woman to receive a Primetime Emmy award for her role on FX's post won a Golden Globe for Best Actress in 2022, and in 2023, became the first American muse for Charlotte Tilbury. She can be seen in season two of the Apple series Loot, which I personally love. It's crazy seeing her across from us right now. And was on the latest season of American Horror story, delicate with Ms. Kimberly Kardashian. And we're thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to have her. Please welcome to Los Angeles, Michaela J. Rodriguez.
- [01:58]
Unknown Host
Los Angeles. Hello, hello, hello.
- [02:00]
Sarah
How are you?
- [02:01]
Unknown Host
I'm good. I'm excited to be with y'all today. Like, I'm good.
- [02:05]
Kirby
We're, like, so thrilled and honored to have you here.
- [02:08]
Unknown Host
Same here. Same here.
- [02:09]
Sarah
Capricorn sister.
- [02:10]
Kirby
Capricorn sister.
- [02:12]
Unknown Host
Like Trinity. Seriously, like the Trinity.
- [02:15]
Kirby
I feel very powerful in this room right now.
- [02:18]
Unknown Host
Yes. As we said, Capricorns, as you said, they do run the world.
- [02:22]
Kirby
We do run the world.
- [02:23]
Sarah
When Michaela walked in, she was just. She wanted to give hugs, which we're very attuned. We're huggers. And we were thrilled about that. So I feel really good energy from you. So excited.
- [02:34]
Kirby
We're going to have fun. This is going to be a really fun conversation. We have to start with what is on your gorgeous face? What products are you loving right now?
- [02:42]
Unknown Host
So I have a little bit of plump gasm on from Charlotte Tilbury's line of the amazing and one and only pillow talk. I'm sure all the girls know about that. Have one of her beauty. Okay, so we're all.
- [02:54]
Kirby
Yeah, yeah, we're all familiar.
- [02:55]
Unknown Host
Yes, I have one of her beauty blondes on peach chasm, which is on my cheek.
- [02:59]
Sarah
Yes.
- [03:00]
Unknown Host
I have the flawless airbrush, flawless filter, just matte powder, just to, like, seal everything in the deal. And, you know, I have a couple of other of her products on that I just, you know, keep in my little Rolodex when I need to pull them out.
- [03:13]
Sarah
When you're a muse of Charlotte Tilbury, I feel like you have won the jackpot.
- [03:18]
Unknown Host
Oh, yeah.
- [03:19]
Sarah
Because I've been a pillow talk girl from the jump.
- [03:21]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [03:22]
Sarah
I'm wearing pillow talk. I have. I love Plumpgasm is such an amazing gloss.
- [03:28]
Unknown Host
It is. It has so many components to it that you're just like. Wait, what?
- [03:32]
Sarah
Yes.
- [03:32]
Unknown Host
Like, it lifts, and it also just makes sure, like, it makes them juicy. I mean, that's one of my favorite ones too. The pale one also, too. Because it just goes on kind of, like, sheer.
- [03:41]
Sarah
Yeah. I want to ask you about your hair.
- [03:43]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [03:43]
Sarah
So you have a lot of volume to your hair right now, and I'm obsessed with it, but I see. I feel like you have the lift. So what. What are you using in your hair?
- [03:55]
Unknown Host
Well, the most important things, I think, when it comes to, like, hair product care, I use a lot of Shea moisturizer. When it comes to making sure the baby hairs are laid down, making sure that, you know, there's hair care done to whether it's a wig or not, like, whether we're wearing a wig or not. I think it's so crucial to make sure, like, you have hair care when it comes to human hair, just in general. But I use Sheamoisture, like, all the time.
- [04:17]
Sarah
Oh, that's your go to?
- [04:18]
Unknown Host
That is my go to. There's this one little, like, cylinder that they have. It's like an edge control, which I live for.
- [04:23]
Sarah
Okay. I was gonna ask in terms of edge control, because fenty just came out with fenty hair, and they have, like, a really great edge layer with a little. Do you use a little brush?
- [04:33]
Unknown Host
I do sometimes.
- [04:34]
Sarah
Or just your fingers?
- [04:35]
Unknown Host
Most of the time, like, my makeup art. My hairstylist is doing this. Like, they have the gift and the gam of it all.
- [04:40]
Sarah
You know, you got the glam squad going. They know what's up.
- [04:43]
Unknown Host
They know. They know I mean more than. And I do know how to do a beat. Like, I definitely do, but I trust them so much more than I am.
- [04:49]
Sarah
Of course you do. Hello.
- [04:51]
Kirby
Okay, can we talk about, like, when you got the phone call that you were gonna be the muse?
- [04:56]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [04:56]
Kirby
What was that? Like?
- [04:57]
Unknown Host
It was kind of, like, surreal because we, me and Charlotte, we had met each other before. Like, anything before any kind of, like, just anything. And I was so surprised to get the call because I had been using her product for a long time too. I had been using Pillow Talk. I hadn't been using Skincare at the time.
- [05:14]
Sarah
Okay.
- [05:14]
Unknown Host
Which we can talk about, because skincare is everything.
- [05:16]
Sarah
Yes.
- [05:17]
Unknown Host
But, like, when I first met her, it was at an Oscar party, and it just was kind of kismet. Like, I met Sophia, her niece. I met Bella that night. I fell in love with them. Like, and then me and her, like, just started talking as we were walking down the hallway after, I think the event was done, and we just talked about manifestation and all this other stuff. And I was like, wow. Like, not only am I using your makeup and I get to talk to one of the, like, highly, really just well known makeup kind of like moguls out there, but, like, you're a really good person and you're serious about your work and you are a boss. Like, wow, if I could be a partner with you, that would be everything. And I didn't say this to her. I was just like. As I was listening to her talk, I was like, wow, you're really someone I would align myself with and be around. Like, I really just would. And just on a regular day to day basis. And then I got the call. I would say maybe a week later. And. Or maybe, yeah, maybe a week later. And I was just like, okay, so this is. This is actually real. Like, it's happening. And she said that day, she was like, manifestations happen. She. We had a in depth conversation and I just like, I'm really happy to be a part of it now. And yeah, I'm like, I'm gagged.
- [06:26]
Sarah
I mean. And First American, too, is crazy.
- [06:29]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [06:29]
Sarah
Because I didn't even realize that.
- [06:31]
Kirby
Yeah, I mean, either.
- [06:32]
Sarah
We've been following Charlotte since the beginning of her career, her brand. I didn't realize that she only had what were British. British muses.
- [06:41]
Kirby
Yeah.
- [06:41]
Unknown Host
Yeah. Most of her girls are, you know, from Europe. But, like, I was really lucky. I was thankful and blessed that she considered me. I mean, also, it really lends itself that we work together because we're both doing different things in our own respective. Respective light. And I think it was a smart and beautiful choice that we align together to talk from different perspectives, internationally wise. And also just as Two different kinds of women walking the earth and also influencing. And, like, I just think she was so smart. She's always been smart, but I think it's just so intelligent and also considerate of her to think about me in that regard and also to align me with some of the other girls. Like, I never thought that I would be aligned like that and positioned in a way where all of us. I remember the lipstick. The reds and pinks lipstick campaign.
- [07:27]
Sarah
Yes.
- [07:28]
Unknown Host
I remember just being there and looking at Jordan Dunn and seeing. I think there was another artist there too, and she was well known over in Asia. And, like, seeing the Kate Moss, and I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm lined with these women. And the moment I thought in that moment, I was just like, thank you, Charlotte. Because you looked past any kind of idea or expectation when it came to LGBTQAI people. You just saw a woman in front of you who one is going to up for you. And also just like, just. Who loves beauty, who loves glam, who loves. And it. It differentiates.
- [08:06]
Sarah
Yes.
- [08:07]
Unknown Host
You know?
- [08:07]
Kirby
Yeah, no, that's amazing. Okay, so speaking of muses, growing up, who were your muses? Like, what was your idea of beauty? What did that look like?
- [08:16]
Unknown Host
Okay, well, if I can be cheesy for one little second, I would say my mama. My mom is, like, the first. First obvious, like, beauty guru. Cause I just think she's naturally a beauty. You know, I guess I'm biased, but. No, a lot of people think she's beautiful too, so I guess I'm not. No, I'm kidding. But she's the first. And then as I got older and I got to, like, have inspirations and look to people, I would say, like, Naomi Campbell was definitely a beauty reference. I was just like, oh, my God, your skin complexion and the way makeup just lays on your skin and your bone structure. Stunning. Imani was another Tyra Banks was another Linda Evangelista. Like, just her complexion is porcelain, Those crystal blue eyes. You know, looking at all of these women, I was like, oh, wow, what a great, you know, exemplification of beauty and how not only are they models, but the makeup that's on their face is sitting, you know, so, yeah, I looked at. And there's more. There's many more, but those are, like, the four I can just think of at this point.
- [09:13]
Kirby
Yeah. And did you grow up feeling, like, beautiful? Did you look to them? Were you playing with makeup? What was that like? What was your journey like?
- [09:22]
Unknown Host
When I was younger, all I did was just look to them. So they were on the television screens, and I was just able to really take it in the television screen. I feel like when I started playing with makeup was when I was 14. And it wasn't anything like a lot. I didn't play with a lot of makeup. I usually say that for the glam of it all. But I tested out mascara, and I remember after I went into school that day, I was like, oh, my God, my eyes look great. Like, this is cute. I'm gonna keep you. I'm gonna keep doing this. And my friend Chanel, she was like, girl, you gotta make. You got. You got mascara on. She said, when did you start doing this? And I was like, it just started today. She was like, it looks good. And then we just went back to our math class, actually our science class. But, like, that was also a good little stem from her. She just like, give me that one up. But that's when I started. And then I just started doing small things. Cause at that time, my face was like, you know, smooth, baby, smooth, clean. Didn't need no makeup at that point. Still don't really need any makeup at that point. But I learned about the artistry of it and, like, the. The liberty you can take with it, the freedom you can have with it, and, like, how freeing it is to be able to be curious through any kind of palette, any kind of lipstick, any kind of gloss, any kind of. You could just play. That's when I started. I was like, around 17 or 19 when I started. Excuse me, 19 or 20 when I started. Because that was when I started renting. So, like, we had to love makeup.
- [10:42]
Sarah
Yes. Okay. I love that you brought up rent, but before rent, you spent years at performing arts schools. You were in the ballroom scene.
- [10:50]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [10:51]
Sarah
What did those experiences teach you about makeup or beauty in general? And do you think this was good for your self esteem?
- [10:58]
Unknown Host
You know, I think it was definitely good for my self esteem. I had a lot of artistic people around me, which in general, artsy, fartsy people were just like, we get it. You know what I mean? We understand each other. So I think that was like a cloak and a protection mechanism for me, but I think, like, the craft of it all and the. The technique and training of just knowing oneself when going into the arts was a way for me to just be confident. So whatever I went into, I was going to be comfortable in. So if I'm doing beauty or makeup, I have no problem. I'm confident enough to not, like, not care, not worry. It's a Part of the art this is. Are the puzzle pieces you need to build a character in general. You know what I mean? So, like, it was. It came, like, to second nature. Second nature to me because of the teaching that I had from those institutions. They institutionalized all of that into us when we were kids. It's a part of the craft.
- [11:48]
Sarah
Right. Did you. Do you remember the first makeup product that you ever used that you felt was truly transformative?
- [11:57]
Unknown Host
Ooh, okay. I think the first makeup product that was transformative for me, like, at a.
- [12:04]
Kirby
Younger age or maybe even, like, when you're on stage or, like, I was.
- [12:08]
Sarah
Gonna say, for example, my first makeup product was mascara, and I realized that when I first put it on, I had long lashes, and I didn't know that. And now, like, that was kind of like my superpower. Like, maybe I didn't know how to do a red lip.
- [12:22]
Unknown Host
Right.
- [12:22]
Sarah
But I knew I had lashes.
- [12:24]
Unknown Host
Yeah. I think. Okay. What was really transformative for me, and I'm always a liner girl, but I've always done black liners, and I've always made sure that I ombre it out, so it's not so harsh.
- [12:34]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [12:34]
Unknown Host
But when I started using Charlotte's, her pencils, and my favorite is actually foxy Brown, that kind of, like, changed my perspective of color and what I could do with liner. And it doesn't have to be so harsh. Sometimes it can be harsh for a look if you're choosing to, but, like, I've learned it can be soft and still blend well and look good with the other, like, lipstick that you have on. So. Yeah.
- [12:58]
Sarah
Yeah. Going back to, though, being, like, in ballroom and in performing arts, was there a product at that point that you felt was transformative?
- [13:06]
Unknown Host
No. I mean, when I was in ballroom, believe it or not, I wasn't even putting on a lot of makeup.
- [13:09]
Sarah
Oh, really?
- [13:10]
Unknown Host
No, no. It was fresh face. Fresh face. I was very like. I mean, I am. When you're so in different parts of ballroom, like, bizarre. Right. You're gonna need makeup.
- [13:20]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [13:20]
Unknown Host
But I never did that category.
- [13:21]
Sarah
Oh, okay.
- [13:22]
Unknown Host
You know what I mean? And there's so many different categories. Like, there's voguing and voguing. Sometimes you put on makeup when you're channeling a character if there's a theme. But I never really did the themes. I would just go, and I would dance. So, like, there was no makeup at that time, but I would say outside of it. Like, when I would go to my performing art schools, the makeup that would be transformative for me was the Red lipsticks, like, the. You know, I don't know if they're selling stock with the Mac Red. Like, really Mac red lipstick. It was so stimulating to me. I love bright colors.
- [13:52]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Unknown Host
And it looks so good on my lips. And I was just like, this looks great. This looks fantastic.
- [13:57]
Kirby
Yeah. It makes you feel, like, powerful. Yeah, yeah.
- [14:00]
Unknown Host
Like, it's. It's liberating. Yeah. You get to walk out and you get to know who you are and feel good and, like, good in your skin.
- [14:06]
Kirby
When you became famous, do you remember the first brands that, like, really invested in you or reached out to you? Makeup or beauty aside, like, any brand, like clothing, whatever it may be, like, who really, like, came to you first?
- [14:19]
Unknown Host
I'll never forget there were two people, and I hold them dear in my heart. Christian Siriano was one of the first people that came to us when we were in pose, and he helped us. He styled us for our first carpet, our first premier carpet, And I was just like, wow, like, you're Christian Siriano, and you took the time out to just do this. Wow, that's amazing. Oh, my God. I just forgot the other person, y'all. Yes. I do remember Journey Scott, and he was a part of Moschino at that time. And I remember he just. He really coined me out and, like, just was like. He gave me words of affirmation. He made me feel like I was seen. He put me in his campaign, you know, and after. Even after that, like, he just constantly showed love to me in ways where I was just like, wow, you don't have to do this, and you're doing it, so. And for you to be Jeremy Scott, like, he's Jeremy Scott, like, one of the most well known fashion designers out there amongst the many. But, like, I just couldn't believe he took time and held space with me, and I was just like, thank you. He's iconic, you know, but, yeah, him for sure.
- [15:25]
Sarah
Did you feel like when pose was, you know, you filmed pose and then it was starting to come out, did you feel a lot of support with that show coming out, or did you feel like you and your castmates were trying to be seen by people?
- [15:40]
Unknown Host
No, I. Okay. So initially, going into it, I had the idea of going into it as, like, this is not going to probably resonate with the audiences because, I mean, they have no understanding. Usually when there's no understanding, there's, you know, crazy things that come along with no understanding. Right. So, like, that's what I had initially went in with, and I was surprised after people watched It. I was like, oh, my God. Like, the love that we received, it made us feel like, okay, so we were doing the work that we needed to do. Like, and we didn't have to. The girls at that show didn't have to coin or try to etch or crave for any kind of notoriety because the story alone, it was a part of us. But the story alone was so juicy and groundbreaking and monumental that a lot of people couldn't shake it. Like, and it's. There's truths in it, too. There's so many strong truths in it. So I think. Yeah, I think I was surprised by the wonderful, like, outlook that we had on it from our audience members. I was so thankful to them, too. And they still, to this day. I had one girl come up to me. Girl, I'm still waiting for fourth season. I was like, okay, sis, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
- [17:00]
Sarah
Like, by the way, you know, it's not on the air anymore.
- [17:02]
Unknown Host
I was like, sis, oh, my God, it's not here no more. But, like, okay, I'll try.
- [17:06]
Sarah
I have to say, you have to commend everybody that worked on that show, though, because even if an executive or someone at FX didn't understand what you guys were trying to achieve with the show, they could have just been like, like you said, if there's not an understanding, how are we supposed to fly?
- [17:24]
Unknown Host
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that's what it did. It was kind of. We always say this. It was like a entertainment but yet educational show. And it really took you on a journey with fashion, makeup, and, you know, really tragic storylines that needed to be told in order for people to understand the trajectory of what it's like being a trans woman in 1983 and just in the world in general.
- [17:49]
Sarah
Right.
- [17:50]
Unknown Host
Like, and what that comes with, you know? And I was so. I was happy to be a part of it because I was just like, we finally get to tell the story.
- [17:56]
Kirby
Yeah. You know, did you know that it was going to be as groundbreaking as it was? Did you have any idea?
- [18:03]
Unknown Host
No, no inkling at all. I just knew it was something that I had to do. I knew it was a fantastic script. I was talking to someone a little earlier about, like, what is good and what is great and good and great are. You know, they're good, they're great. But pose was outstanding. It was phenomenal. And I'm not saying that because I was just on the show. If I weren't on the show and there was someone else that was put in my position, I'd probably say the same thing, and I think that was the most rewarding is that the writing alone really spoke for itself.
- [18:33]
Kirby
You are obviously a working actress.
- [18:36]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [18:37]
Kirby
You've had many, many jobs.
- [18:38]
Unknown Host
Ooh, yes.
- [18:39]
Kirby
And as Kirby mentioned, you were the first trans woman to be nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama. You won a Golden Globe for your work in Pose. You've been nominated 21 times for various awards.
- [18:51]
Unknown Host
That's real.
- [18:52]
Sarah
Yes.
- [18:52]
Unknown Host
See, I don't know these numbers.
- [18:54]
Sarah
I counted them one by one on your IMDb babe.
- [18:58]
Unknown Host
She's like, I know these number facts.
- [19:00]
Kirby
And then on top of all of that, you are the first American muse for Charlotte Tilbury. You have so many accomplishments. Do you feel like more doors have opened with all of the success or are you still.
- [19:16]
Sarah
Is it still a fight?
- [19:18]
Unknown Host
Yeah, I feel like it is still a fight. It is a just one. I'm privy to challenges. When I was going to school, if I could have like a little segment. And when I went to school, I went. I had a private class. Well, it wasn't a private class. It was like an after school curriculum. And it was called speech, which they were called forensics. And we had so many different types of categories. There were hilarious interpretation, there was comedic interpretation, There was impromptu, which is improv. And they had to be politics. And at the age of, what, 14 through 16, I got to learn not only about, you know, acting, but I got to learn about debate and how to debate. And I realized that there's so much that goes into it. And there is also this kind of mask that goes into debate versus acting and comedy and drama, you know, So I do believe that it's hard. The political space that we are in, especially right now, it's hard. But I also have won a lot of those categories. So I'm not. There's nothing I'm scared about. There's nothing I'm in fear about because I've been through it before. I see what a challenge looks like and I like to take it on by the horns. You know, I'm a Capricorn, so I like to think that when there is pushback, which there is, I like to just stand out a little bit more. I think that's the only way. There's opportunity and space to be allotted for people who are different. And it has nothing to do with being just trans. It has to do with people who are part of a community that is marginalized, you know. So, yes, I do think there's still a fight, but I mean, who doesn't love a fight, especially as a woman, like, who doesn't love a fight. Who doesn't like to stand up for your right and, like, hold space so that you can have a hand behind so someone can grab. Like, that's my main goal. No matter how many kind of, like, narratives are spun about us. Like, do your best, babes. Do your best.
- [21:21]
Sarah
Yeah. Being a working actress, especially in the industry right now, I feel is kind of the middle finger to any naysayers.
- [21:29]
Unknown Host
You better say that. I love how you just said it. It was just so sly and it's just so. Yes.
- [21:34]
Sarah
Try to be a little, you know, demure with it.
- [21:37]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [21:38]
Sarah
But I have to commend you because I see how often you are. I mean, you are working girl, and I feel like it's a lot of talent, a lot of perseverance, a lot of self confidence, maybe a little luck sprinkled in there.
- [21:55]
Unknown Host
Yes, yes.
- [21:56]
Sarah
As we all know, you need it. Especially in the entertainment industry, where you can't just walk in and say, I want this job.
- [22:01]
Unknown Host
No. Yeah.
- [22:02]
Sarah
But I feel like you as well, you have to, I feel, almost prove yourself even more than the average person about why you're right for a role. And so I think Sarah and I both agree, like, we tip our hat to you for, like, even just your perspective on, like, I'm. I'm willing to fight for what I want. So.
- [22:21]
Kirby
Yeah.
- [22:22]
Unknown Host
Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's. I mean, I've looked at all of the different kinds of fights, you know, and also being a part of an intersectionality, I was just like, you know, I can relate to every last one of those or not every last, because that would be crazy. But, like, I can relate to a multitude of them. And if I can relate, that means I can speak to it. And that's the best part about it. I feel like that was one of the best parts about being with Charlotte, too, because. And Ryan and, you know, with Maya on lute and, you know, the production of Universal, like, all of these spaces, you learn that they are holding space for you and they want to create it. Opportunity for so many people. I was just. When I knew Charlotte, I knew Charlotte would be accepting because she's just a gem and her energy is just so. It's like cosmic. Like, it's wildly cosmic. And I was just really thankful for that. But, like, you see and you learn and you realize, okay, well, there is a lot of space, but there still always is a fight to make sure that the doors constantly continue to Open. Because there are a lot of people who are like me. There are a lot of women who are Latina and Afro Latina. There are a lot of women who are transparent, and there are a lot of them who are not trans, but who resonate and understand. You know, there are children that are like, oh, I'm queer and I need someone to look to. You know, there. It's a multitude of people, and I think the only way to, like, really do your work is show up, be present, and show that, you know, it's possible.
- [23:47]
Kirby
Yeah, right. Wait, I want to know, like, what. What else do you have, like, on your list of goals? Like, what do you want to accomplish?
- [23:55]
Unknown Host
You know, like I said, I'm a drama girl and an acting girl first and a music. So I definitely want to obtain and achieve and manifest a marvel role. You know, I feel like, more than capable. But, you know, we gotta go through the audition process, which we're calm with and cool with, you know, just to make it happen. But that's my dream. And also with music, just to get another album out there. I'm working on it now, and I just want to continue with that and also continue my relationship with Charlotte. I love our business and personal relationship. It's really, really wonderful. And I hope we continue with changing the world for all types of girls out there.
- [24:29]
Kirby
So, yeah, okay, we're gonna manifest that.
- [24:31]
Sarah
Okay, so let's talk about your album that came out this year, 33. It's driven by a narrative in which. And I'm reading this from the actual album. Pr. Okay, so it says you are a cloned humanoid woman navigating an alien planet. And you have said that you have been inspired by, quote, unquote, chosen ones, like Neo from the Matrix. And. Okay, yes, I'm going to mispronounce Aang.
- [24:58]
Unknown Host
Okay.
- [24:59]
Sarah
Aang from Avatar the Last Airbender, likening their stories to those in the Bible or the Quran. And I'm curious, is this derivative of how you feel about yourself in this life?
- [25:08]
Unknown Host
I do. I do. I feel like she is a future version of myself. And I think I'm like, the human. The existence of who she is, and I'm just telling her story. But, yes, I do. I would hope to, but. And I'm humble. So I don't like to think I'm, like, one of the ones you have to like. That's a lot of work to do.
- [25:27]
Sarah
Right.
- [25:27]
Unknown Host
But I'm inspired by them. And I do aspire to be like, the ones, whoever I've listed in there. And there's many more, you know, I can list so many who have been divinely gift with the knack of art or the knack of word and speech or, you know, anything, who can change the world in a way. And I just want to do that. I want to influence people to, like, really think about, like, the circumstances that we're in and what's worth it and what's not worth it. Because, like I said, times. Our times are very weird, but, like, I always want to include some kind of outlook on how we can build and how we can make things better. And I thought through my music was the best way to do that. It uplifts it. You know, even though there's a message that's in it and that's important, I still want you to understand. You can move like, you can dance. You can choose liberation. Even when you get the message that it's like, okay, this is happening. Well, how can I make a derivative? How can I move around it? Let me find my joy first, and then I can make a plan. Like, that's what this whole album was about. And, you know, people are gonna have their own interpretations. It's not mine anymore. It's not mine anymore.
- [26:30]
Sarah
You put it in the world, it's.
- [26:31]
Unknown Host
Theirs, and that's fine. That's what I wanted it to be. I wanted it to be theirs. It was mine when I was in the process of creating it. And I learned very quickly that it will not be mine anymore, and it's for the better. So that's what it's about. That's what I try to, you know, be in this world and in this time. And I hope, you know, it makes some kind of impact. I want it to hit like a comet, honey. Like, just like, boom.
- [26:55]
Kirby
It's so good. We were dancing to it right before you came in here.
- [26:58]
Sarah
Yes. Who are you inspired by musically? Is there anybody in the past year that you thought has really been inspirational?
- [27:05]
Unknown Host
Yes, there are a lot of girlies, and yes. Oh, my God. Chloe and Halle Normani. Dochi Doja.
- [27:12]
Sarah
Cat Dochi. Oh, my God. Did you see her performance?
- [27:16]
Kirby
Colbert.
- [27:16]
Unknown Host
Colbert.
- [27:17]
Kirby
It was on Colbert. And then she also did the Tiny Desk concert. And it's like, all the interlinking of.
- [27:23]
Sarah
The hair with the dancing and what.
- [27:25]
Kirby
She was doing and the Gucci skirts, It was just the polo shirt.
- [27:29]
Sarah
The whole thing was genius.
- [27:30]
Unknown Host
It was. And, like, whoever that camera guy was, too. Kudos to the camera guy, y'all. Kudos to the camera guy. He really made sure, like, he got a good Focal point of her and showcased her.
- [27:40]
Kirby
Oh, my gosh.
- [27:40]
Unknown Host
You know what I mean? So. Yeah.
- [27:41]
Kirby
Yeah. Oh, incredible.
- [27:43]
Sarah
I know. I've been. I'm like, we need to get her on the podcast.
- [27:46]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [27:47]
Sarah
I also. The face tape. The very.
- [27:49]
Unknown Host
Yeah. And it's deliberate.
- [27:50]
Sarah
It's so deliberate. There was somebody on TikTok. Did you see this?
- [27:54]
Unknown Host
Yes, I saw it, too. She responded to it. Yeah. I love that.
- [27:56]
Sarah
There was this girl that was basically complaining about the face tape has gone too far. And there is one person on TikTok that I truly am. Like, I think you look like you're in pain. You should maybe not do that, but don't she. It's clearly. She's like babes.
- [28:10]
Unknown Host
Yeah, I remember.
- [28:11]
Sarah
Where. Where are. Is this? Like, are we not thinking cognitively here?
- [28:16]
Unknown Host
Yeah, like, it's clearly there. She knows it's there. It's a deliberate thing, and it's sickening. It's just. It looks great, and she's doing it so well, and she's created this, like, wonderful Persona character around who she is, and it looks good on her, and it is her, and it's who she is, you know, but it's. I love her so much. We keep in contact a little bit, you know, And I really do. I support her wholeheartedly. Whenever I see something about her, I'm always reposting it on my stories. Her and Keke Palmer. Cause Keke's doing music, too. And, you know, Chloe and Halle and Doja. I'm always, like, reposting the girls when I can. Cause they're really handling it out here.
- [28:53]
Kirby
Yes.
- [28:54]
Unknown Host
Like, the girls are handling it, and I'm so proud of them.
- [28:56]
Sarah
I love Doja so much.
- [28:57]
Kirby
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Kirby
Oh, my gosh.
- [28:59]
Sarah
That woman after my own heart. Okay. I still want to stick to the album. Real quick.
- [29:03]
Unknown Host
Yes. Cause I did a tangent apology.
- [29:05]
Sarah
No, no, no.
- [29:06]
Kirby
That was related. That was related.
- [29:07]
Sarah
So I've seen you discuss the Bible in a few different videos.
- [29:11]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [29:11]
Sarah
And I was. And you mentioned the Quran in the album description. Do you consider yourself a religious person?
- [29:18]
Unknown Host
I'm very spiritual. I'm a person who believes in a very higher power. A higher power that is much more intelligent, way far beyond what we can even fathom. And for that, I honestly can't listen to anyone who judges me, because, I mean, I feel like that's the only thing that can judge me if I have a space in this world and listen, you know, honk, honk. But, like, if the Creator has given me a pathway to speak to a lot of people in the world. There must be a reason why I'm alive. And I'm not saying that in cockiness or through ego. It's just a lot of people were given that opportunity, and we know some of the people who were given that opportunity. And unfortunately, and sadly, they met a demise. I don't want that for myself. You know, that's what we don't pray for. But, you know, I do believe the impact was substantial. It was amazing. And each and every last one of them did it. And I want to have that impact. And I hope. I mean, I don't think it's happened just yet. And I'm not. I'm okay with that. I'm okay. I like the journey. I like the climb. Hey, Miley.
- [30:17]
Sarah
Yes.
- [30:18]
Unknown Host
We love the climb.
- [30:19]
Sarah
It's the goats in us.
- [30:20]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [30:21]
Sarah
We will climb up the mountain, babe.
- [30:23]
Unknown Host
Girl. And we're going to be high.
- [30:24]
Sarah
No, but I'm ready to reach the top.
- [30:27]
Unknown Host
You feel me? Like, I mean, we're. But we're close.
- [30:30]
Sarah
We break through. We all, like, we are close.
- [30:32]
Unknown Host
I do. Snow is right there, girl. I mean, we still see some brown, you know, but are we satisfied?
- [30:37]
Kirby
I feel like we always are gonna.
- [30:39]
Unknown Host
We're never. Capricorns are never.
- [30:42]
Kirby
Yeah.
- [30:42]
Sarah
Quote Hamilton, we'll never. We're never gonna be satisfied. It's like, are you satisfied? We're never.
- [30:47]
Unknown Host
Angelica.
- [30:48]
Sarah
Listen, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm Angelica over here. The way it is.
- [30:52]
Unknown Host
Respectfully.
- [30:53]
Kirby
Yeah, but I mean, that's. That's the beauty of Capricorns, too, right?
- [30:56]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [30:57]
Sarah
We keep going.
- [30:58]
Kirby
We keep going. Okay. Speaking of impact, obviously you are such an advocate for trans representation and visibility. Such a huge part of who you are. But do you ever get tired of just focusing on that part of the conversation, or are you always welcoming that?
- [31:14]
Unknown Host
I think with how the world has received me, it has not been something that is poster child kind of feeling. It's been very easygoing. And the curiosity of it all, just like anyone has. Curiosity. It's been so loving. So, I mean, I don't really get tired because it's not something that's, like, thrown over my head a lot. Aside from the people who are bigots, like Abi.
- [31:36]
Sarah
Yeah. I mean, Obi. Yeah.
- [31:37]
Unknown Host
But, like, aside from them, like. No, it's quite. It's respectfully in love. It's lovely. So, yeah, I mean, I can't even, like. I think it's great. Like, I haven't had anything. Any kind of, like, qualms or any Bad experiences.
- [31:50]
Sarah
I love that. I actually wanted to ask about this because I noticed that with Charlotte, it wasn't First Trans Muse, it was First American Muse. And I thought that was really, like, I. Isn't that the whole point that we're getting to this point where this is. We're not having to qualify anything. You know what I mean?
- [32:10]
Unknown Host
No, we're just trying to, like, we're trying to. I always love the idea of a coalition of people, especially a coalition of women. I mean, it's wonderful, but, like, I feel like she's creating that space, like. And. No, it's. Yes. First American Muse. It's showcasing, you know, listen, we got the Euro girls, and we love the Euro Girls, but now she's got some American girls to show for her, too.
- [32:31]
Sarah
Yes.
- [32:31]
Unknown Host
You know what I mean? And I just like the idea of that. I mean, out of her, I became the first American ambassador for the King's Trust. And I thought that was outstanding, too. Like, I mean, but it's because of her taking a limb on someone in America. You know what I mean? And it's beautiful to see, and I love that she didn't make that a thing. And it never probably even came to her mind either, just to be quite honest.
- [32:53]
Kirby
So, as Kari mentioned, by the time this comes out, you will have celebrated your birthday.
- [32:58]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [32:58]
Kirby
We will all have at this point.
- [33:00]
Unknown Host
Yes. It's true.
- [33:01]
Kirby
What do you think is your most Capricorn trait?
- [33:04]
Unknown Host
Oh, logical. My most Capricorn trait is being logical almost to a fault. It's really bad.
- [33:10]
Kirby
Really?
- [33:11]
Unknown Host
Yeah, because it's like, you know, I have to. It has to make sense. I have to think it all out. It has to have a point, a period. It has to have a t crossed. I.it like, even if you're a dreamer. Dreamer.
- [33:24]
Kirby
Gotta make sense.
- [33:25]
Unknown Host
It has to. Logically. You know what I mean? Also perfectionist to a T. You know, Virgos, I love y'all. Cause y'all do it really well. And Capricorns, we. I mean, we do it, but it's a lot.
- [33:37]
Sarah
It's harder.
- [33:37]
Unknown Host
It is harder. Yeah, it is. I'm glad. I'm glad, you know, because I thought I was. It is. But we execute very well. Is, you know, as well.
- [33:44]
Kirby
So we get it done.
- [33:45]
Unknown Host
We do. We really do. So congratulations.
- [33:49]
Sarah
The logical thing hits so hard for me because we always talk about how I'm justice oriented. Like, if someone's doing something that's not right, I'm like, I understand why everybody is saying this, but am I the only One that's like, why are we. You're not ruining someone's life over this. You know what I mean? Like, these types of things. You know, I mean, I'm like. But that actually didn't happen. Or, like, this did happen, and y'all are misinterpreting what was said or whatever. I. I'm so logical to it.
- [34:17]
Unknown Host
Yes, you're focusing on. Yeah. And that's. That's us.
- [34:19]
Sarah
It's. It's very hard. It's a very hard life. There's not a lot of logical people, and there's also not a lot of people with brain cells.
- [34:26]
Unknown Host
So this is true. This is very, very, very true.
- [34:29]
Sarah
Accept this.
- [34:30]
Unknown Host
Yes, we do. As Capricorns In Depth. Because we do. You know, I feel like also we have that. That one look that we're just like.
- [34:37]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [34:38]
Unknown Host
Why would you do that? You Scorpio. Why would you. Aries.
- [34:41]
Kirby
Scorpio. Aries.
- [34:42]
Unknown Host
You are very fiery right now.
- [34:44]
Sarah
Oh, Aries.
- [34:44]
Unknown Host
I am not.
- [34:45]
Sarah
Okay, this one over here, Capricorn. Double Aries.
- [34:48]
Unknown Host
Oh, really? Wait, so Ascension and Moon.
- [34:51]
Sarah
Yes.
- [34:53]
Unknown Host
But you don't leave with it. It is. Well, I mean, you lead with it, but it isn't like it doesn't show, I don't think.
- [34:58]
Sarah
When I met you, I didn't think you were an Aries. Yeah, visually, I wasn't like, your days. I'm Capricorn Ascending. I'm Cancer and Moon Scorpio.
- [35:08]
Kirby
I see those, though, in you.
- [35:10]
Unknown Host
Do you? I see the Scorpio for sure. Your Moon. And I see Cancer.
- [35:13]
Kirby
I see cancer a little bit, but not in a bad way.
- [35:17]
Unknown Host
No, no, no.
- [35:17]
Sarah
Like, I love cancers, but if you saw me in. I cry a lot. I cried yesterday in front of, like, 15 people that I was like, I don't know any of these people. I'm sobbing.
- [35:29]
Unknown Host
That's.
- [35:30]
Sarah
Here I am.
- [35:30]
Unknown Host
That's your cancer.
- [35:31]
Sarah
Do you know your big three?
- [35:32]
Unknown Host
I do.
- [35:32]
Sarah
Do you want to share?
- [35:33]
Unknown Host
I have no problem with it.
- [35:34]
Sarah
Okay, good. I always ask. You never know.
- [35:36]
Unknown Host
Always go with it. My ascension is Libra. My moon is Cancer, and my mom is Cancer too, which is crazy. So I know about the cancer of it all. It's real. It is. It's water. And obviously my son. Or. Right. Yeah. My son is Capricorn.
- [35:50]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [35:51]
Unknown Host
So, like, I definitely have seen how I lead with Libra.
- [35:55]
Sarah
It's so funny because when I watch you on tv, I feel I have so many Libra friends, so I've always gotten a Libra vibe from you.
- [36:03]
Unknown Host
I've had that Also too, in, like, fan, like, art, too. They've all consecutively different fan art. Like, they've labeled me as a Libra.
- [36:11]
Sarah
Wow, that's so interesting. Okay, we are now at the end of the interview, but we have to ask a few questions. I know.
- [36:18]
Unknown Host
Wait, what happened?
- [36:19]
Sarah
I know. An hour passed quickly. Honestly, that was an hour.
- [36:22]
Unknown Host
Wait, hold on. That was an hour?
- [36:23]
Sarah
It was 45.
- [36:24]
Kirby
45 minutes.
- [36:25]
Sarah
Okay. So you talked about wanting to be a superhero.
- [36:29]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [36:29]
Sarah
And initially, before you started going by Michaela J, you went by mj.
- [36:33]
Unknown Host
Oh, okay.
- [36:34]
Sarah
From Spider man, right?
- [36:35]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [36:35]
Sarah
What superhero would you be? Even if somebody else currently has the role? Do you have anyone in mind?
- [36:42]
Unknown Host
I do. I said I didn't want to for a long time, but I feel like. I mean, I would love to play her. And that would be Storm. Like, and I would go the whole. Like, I would just really take it seriously. Like, and I would just go completely ham. And I think she's such a great character. I don't think her story has been delved in enough. And I feel like she's so powerful, and why not see such a powerful African goddess, you know? And also, to be very specific, she is an African American goddess from, you know, from. Who has hailed from Cairo as a. Like, a misfit kid. Like, there's so much about her story, you know, like, her parents died in Cairo, but she was raised in New York City. Like, there's so much you can expunge upon with that. And, like, I think her. Her story is so, like, it's filled with just. It's invigorating. It's electrifying. I say that with all puns intended. She controls the weather. But, yeah, her, like, I mean, and she's. I think so many would just be like, wow, like, just to fly and just, like, to feel like they can fly. It's. I would love to play her.
- [37:46]
Kirby
I see that for you.
- [37:48]
Unknown Host
Or Rogue.
- [37:49]
Kirby
Have any tea on Charlotte that you'd like to share with the Glamgelinos and us, the fans?
- [37:55]
Unknown Host
Okay. After we have, like, a good day of hard work. Like, we definitely play hard after the set day is done. So we have. We pop up, you know, a bottle of champagne. Everybody in the set, on the set, the crew, all of us pop champagne. We celebrate what we've done. And then, like, it's just. It lasts for a good minute, too, because, I mean, like, you really have to revel in how big those sets are and what time that's put into it. But, like, we definitely celebrate and I don't think a lot of people know that. You know, sometimes they think, okay, we get the work done and we go home. No, baby, over there.
- [38:31]
Sarah
Charlotte likes to celebrate.
- [38:32]
Unknown Host
She's gonna celebrate.
- [38:33]
Kirby
She's just so fun.
- [38:33]
Unknown Host
She's fun, honey. And it's so good to know. That's how I feel like that's how it should be. Work hard, play hard. I mean, wait. Play hard, work hard, work hard, work. Play hard.
- [38:43]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [38:43]
Unknown Host
Work, play.
- [38:44]
Kirby
Gotta be both. It's gotta be both.
- [38:45]
Unknown Host
It's both.
- [38:46]
Sarah
Thank you so much for coming on, Los Angeles. Michaela J. It was a pleasure to meet you. Where can we. Where. If our listeners are not already following you, where can they find you?
- [38:56]
Unknown Host
I would say, I mean, they can definitely find me on my handles on Instagram and Tick Tock. And more than anything, check out my itunes and check out the music. Listen to it, see if you like it, see if you don't, you know?
- [39:06]
Sarah
Yes.
- [39:06]
Unknown Host
Talk about it, let us know.
- [39:07]
Sarah
Album is called 33.
- [39:09]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [39:10]
Sarah
I'm jamming to it on Spotify. We were jamming before. Awesome. Thank you so much.
- [39:29]
Unknown Host
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [39:37]
Pace Case
Hi, I'm Pace Case.
- [39:38]
Bachelor Clues
And I'm Bachelor Clues.
- [39:39]
Pace Case
We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show in reality TV at the highest level possible. We analyze the bachelor, Love is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.
- [39:54]
Bachelor Clues
We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like bachelorette Kaitlyn Bristow and big brother champion Taylor Hale.
- [40:06]
Pace Case
If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.
- [40:16]
Unknown Host
ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.