Secrets From Hollywood's Hairstylist Mark Townsend (Part II!)

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary: Secrets From Hollywood's Hairstylist Mark Townsend (Part II!)

In the latest episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan welcome back Mark Townsend, a renowned Hollywood hairstylist. The episode delves deep into Mark's experiences working with celebrities, his favorite products, styling techniques, and the challenges of maintaining relationships in the competitive beauty industry. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing all the key discussions, insights, and memorable moments from the conversation.

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1. Welcoming Mark Townsend and the Bang Trim Experience

The episode kicks off with Kirbie and Sara introducing their special guest, Mark Townsend, who is in the studio giving Kirbie a bang trim—a task Kirbie has been postponing due to her attempts at cutting her own bangs.

• Kirbie (01:19): "Mark Townsend is giving Kirby a bang trim, which she has been wanting to have happen for weeks now because she's been cutting her own bangs."

• Mark (02:08): "I blow them out first so I see where they're going to fall."

This initial segment not only showcases Mark's technical skills but also sets a relaxed and friendly tone for the episode.

---

2. Favorite Hair Products in Mark's Toolkit

Mark shares his top five must-have products that he relies on daily to achieve impeccable hairstyles for his clients.

a. Olaplex Volumizing Dry Mist Spray

• Mark (06:00): "I cannot live without Olaplex volumizing dry mist spray. It gives me great volume without making the hair look so dry."

He praises its ability to provide volume while maintaining hair's smoothness, distinguishing it from other volumizers laden with alcohol.

b. Briogeo Farewell Frizz

• Mark (07:01): "Briogeo farewell frizz is insane. It acts as a heat protectant, seals up the hair, and softens it—all in one product."

Mark appreciates this multi-functional product for taming frizz without the hassle of using multiple products.

c. Living Proof Instant E Frizzer

• Mark (08:12): "The Instant E Frizzer is my go-to for instant frizz control, especially during humid conditions. It doesn't weigh down the hair or make it oily."

He highlights its effectiveness in managing flyaways, making it a staple for red carpet events.

d. Days of Dirt Cream

• Mark (10:36): "Days of Dirt cream gives my hair a polished shine and helps pieces out the hair, making it look like second or third-day hair."

Essential for adding shine and managing oily roots, this product is a favorite for quick touch-ups.

e. L'Oreal Elnett Hairspray

• Mark (11:28): "L'Oreal Elnett is untouchable. I can spray it on a hundred times during a photoshoot without seeing a flake."

Despite the general backlash against hairsprays, Mark defends Elnett's effectiveness and formulation improvements.

---

3. Styling Techniques and Event Preferences

Mark discusses his preferred styling techniques and the types of events he enjoys working on the most.

a. Volumizing and Frizz Control

He emphasizes the importance of volumizers and anti-frizz products in creating versatile and lasting hairstyles, especially for high-profile events.

b. Favorite Events: The Met Gala

• Mark (13:05): "The first Monday in May at the Met Gala is like the Fashion Super Bowl. People take crazy risks and throw all the rule books out the door."

Mark describes the Met Gala as a pinnacle event where creativity and risk-taking flourish, making it both challenging and exhilarating for hairstylists.

---

4. Experiences at the Met Gala

Mark recounts his memorable experiences styling the Olsen twins and others for the Met Gala, highlighting both successes and unexpected challenges.

a. Styling the Olsen Twins

• Mark (13:35): "I styled all three Olsen twins in one day for the only time they've all gone to the Met Gala. It was incredible."

His close relationship with the twins allows for a seamless styling process, contributing to their iconic red carpet looks.

b. Challenges with Lighting

• Mark (16:22): "There was one year at the Met Gala where the lighting was all sepia, making everyone look orange. We had to make an executive decision to post a better picture first."

This anecdote underscores the unpredictability of live events and the importance of quick thinking under pressure.

c. Collaborative Preparation

• Mark (16:18): "We sit around and have coffee and talk before we even get anywhere near hair and makeup. It's a nice afternoon getting ready."

The collaborative and relaxed preparation process ensures that clients are comfortable and ready for their big moments.

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5. Listener Questions and Professional Advice

The hosts present a series of listener-submitted questions, to which Mark provides detailed and practical answers based on his extensive experience.

a. Best Products and Techniques for Holding Curls (19:28)

• Mark: "For paper straight hair, using a smaller barrel curling iron helps hold the curl longer. I also recommend a volumizer for added hold."

He suggests techniques like using an airwrap for tight curls and emphasizes the importance of product choice based on hair porosity and texture.

b. Styling Second-Day Hair Quickly (21:50)

• Mark: "Start with dry shampoo on day two to refresh the roots, then use a flat brush with dry shampoo to reduce frizz. Finish with a large barrel curling iron for quick waves."

This advice is particularly useful for those with fine, frizzy, or wavy hair needing a fast refresh.

c. Favorite Brushes for Healthy Hair (22:58)

• Mark: "A Mason Pearson brush is excellent for distributing natural oils from the scalp to the ends, promoting healthy hair."

He also praises Sonia Kashuk brushes available at Target as effective and affordable alternatives.

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6. Working with Celebrity Clients vs. Non-Celebrity Clients

Mark opens up about the realities of being a celebrity hairstylist, addressing the glamour and the underlying challenges.

a. The Competitive Nature of Celebrity Styling

• Mark (23:53): "Being a celebrity stylist isn't as glamorous as it looks on Instagram. It's extremely competitive, and you often face rejection."

He highlights the intense competition and the emotional toll of losing clients to other stylists.

b. Maintaining Professional Relationships

• Mark (25:34): "I lost half of my clientele the first year Jennifer Lawrence went to award shows because I couldn't commit to her demanding schedule."

This personal story illustrates the sacrifices and tough decisions hairstylists must make to balance client relationships and career opportunities.

c. Industry Dynamics and Agency Influence

• Mark (38:31): "Many hair and makeup agencies are being bought by bigger firms, which diminishes individual negotiation power for stylists."

He discusses the shift towards agency-dominated teams, limiting hairstylists' autonomy and control over their careers.

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7. Memorable Moments and Anecdotes

Mark shares some of his most unforgettable moments in the industry, blending humor with insightful lessons.

a. The Camel Incident with Penelope Cruz (31:03)

• Mark (31:09): "Penelope Cruz at the premiere of Sahara had ginormous teased hair, and a camel tried to eat her hair as she walked down the carpet. It was both hilarious and a hair emergency!"

This story not only entertains but also highlights the unpredictable nature of styling high-profile clients under variable weather conditions.

b. The Importance of Adaptability

• Mark (27:58): "We used latex to glue a crystal belt to Ashley's back in 2009, creating an unforgettable look. Adaptability and creativity are key in our line of work."

Such instances underscore the necessity for hairstylists to think outside the box and adapt to unconventional styling requests.

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8. Navigating Industry Challenges and Future Outlook

Towards the end of the episode, Mark reflects on the evolving landscape of the beauty industry and offers advice to aspiring hairstylists.

a. Embracing Change and Continuous Learning

Mark emphasizes the importance of staying updated with trends, technologies, and maintaining flexibility in one's career approach.

b. Building Strong Client Relationships

• Mark (35:09): "Treat every day like it's your last day with a client. Do your best work and enjoy the moment, so that even if a client moves on, you leave a lasting impression."

This mindset fosters long-term professional relationships and opens doors to future opportunities.

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Conclusion: Gratitude and Looking Forward

As the episode wraps up, Kirbie and Sara express their gratitude towards Mark for sharing his invaluable insights and entertaining stories.

• Kirbie (41:26): "They look amazing. I'll be bothering you soon when my trim is."

• Sara (41:31): "Thank you for sharing all of your fascinating stories with us. We adore you."

Mark reciprocates the appreciation, hinting at future appearances and collaborations.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mark Townsend (05:09): "I am the only hairstylist, really on the planet that can talk about their hair with any kind of integrity, like any kind of firsthand knowledge."

• Mark Townsend (16:38): "Everybody looked bad due to the lighting situation, so I threw the better picture up to ensure better representation."

• Mark Townsend (38:17): "Publicists are looking at our social media posts as it’s now expected to showcase the work publicly."

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This episode of Gloss Angeles provides listeners with an insider's view into the glamorous yet demanding world of celebrity hairstyling. Mark Townsend's candid discussions offer valuable lessons on professionalism, creativity, and resilience in the beauty industry.

Transcript

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[Mark Townsend]

Glam Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah]

Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Okay, if you are tuning in to this via audio, you can't see what's happening, so I'll help narrate. But we have our very favorite, our new co host, Mark Townsend, back the third joining us, and he is giving Kirby a bang trim, which she has been wanting to have happen for weeks now because she's been cutting her own bangs.

[Sarah]

Yes. And I should have just come to.

[Kirby]

The salon, but it's better this way because it's more exciting. So. So if you're. If you want to see this what's happening, go to our YouTube.

[Mark Townsend]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You can watch it in real time.

[Mark Townsend]

You have a pretty strong palate, huh?

[Kirby]

Every.

[Sarah]

This is so crazy, Mark, because I've had bangs before where, like, it was not this strong. I don't know if it came out of nowhere, truly. Like, I am like, shit shook at how strong this palate is. And I don't know if I did something recently, like by cutting my own bangs to make it a problem, but I am shocked. Oh, my God. You're using a mascara wand way down in there.

[Kirby]

I've been using mascara wands since you taught me that hack. Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

I need to start doing this so.

[Mark Townsend]

I blow them out first so I see where they're going to fall.

[Kirby]

Okay, but, like, you can come back on the pod, but only if you bring your scissors. Bring your scissors. I mean, they already look great.

[Sarah]

Venus is in retrograde, so I was a little scared to get this done. But then I was reading that if you already cut your bangs, it's fine. It's not.

[Kirby]

If this is just not a major.

[Sarah]

Hair transformation, I'm gonna get bangs. It's like, okay, you already have bangs.

[Kirby]

So no major hair transformations during Venus retrograde.

[Sarah]

Or, like, don't get Botox.

[Kirby]

Like, oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Oh, have you guys tried being French? The Ashley Tisdale.

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

She launched Hair today.

[Kirby]

Oh, really?

[Sarah]

Oh, really? Okay, so fun fact. When I first started at Popsugar, I would wear these clip in extensions. The gay executive assistant was like, you're giving Ashley Tisdale. You're the Tiz. And so anytime I put in my clip in hair extensions, we called it the Tiz. And I told her this one time when I interviewed her and she really was not feeling it.

[Mark Townsend]

She didn't think it was that cute. I was like, I think it is.

[Sarah]

I was like, damn, maybe she's changed her tune.

[Kirby]

Her brand is cute though.

[Sarah]

Yeah, very.

[Mark Townsend]

I try. I gotta say, I like the dry shampoo.

[Sarah]

I think it's doing really well at Target.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Is this the fastest bang trim you've ever done?

[Mark Townsend]

No.

[Sarah]

That he's like.

[Kirby]

You're like, I've done it on the go.

[Mark Townsend]

Rule number one is never take your round breath.

[Sarah]

Always down.

[Mark Townsend]

Always down into the side.

[Kirby]

Not forward.

[Mark Townsend]

No, that's where you get that lift. And we're always trying to fight.

[Kirby]

You cut Daisy Edgar Jones's bangs.

[Mark Townsend]

Servando. Servando does the cut. Bryce usually styles her, but so you can get this right on the skin without burning yourself. Yeah.

[Sarah]

That's crazy.

[Kirby]

They look so good. You have to wear the cape the whole time.

[Sarah]

I do. What if I just start wearing the cape? Thank you, Mark. They look so good.

[Mark Townsend]

The only thing allowed in bangs ever is the do over spray.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay.

[Mark Townsend]

Kevin Murphy's do over.

[Sarah]

Is it a I like Kevin dry shampoo.

[Mark Townsend]

It's a powder based hairspray.

[Sarah]

Oh, I got you, didn't I?

[Mark Townsend]

Back there?

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

All right. What do you think?

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. I love.

[Kirby]

So cute. Looks so good. Yay.

[Sarah]

He's back.

[Mark Townsend]

Just when you thought he could get rid of me.

[Sarah]

Never.

[Kirby]

Are you kidding?

[Sarah]

We need more.

[Kirby]

The glams were foaming at the mouth. They wanted more. And we were like, yes.

[Sarah]

Yeah. People were essentially saying they felt like it was a HIPAA violation hearing about the Olsen's hair. And it was kind of true. Because they have not gotten much information about them in a decade or more. I mean, it's kind of crazy.

[Mark Townsend]

How to say one of the most. Like, what I'm the most proud of is that I am the only hairstylist, really on the planet that can talk about their hair with any kind of integrity, like any kind of firsthand knowledge, right?

[Sarah]

100%.

[Mark Townsend]

Like I said, Ashley hasn't had anyone else cut her hair since she was 16. Mary Kate cheated once.

[Sarah]

She cheated. What a bitch. Just kidding. Hey, she had to try. She had to see what she was missing.

[Mark Townsend]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Sarah]

That's how it goes. Okay, before we get into so much more hair stuff, specifically types of events you like to work, we have some listener questions as well. You brought five products that you always keep in your kit. And if you're just now tuning in, Mark literally cut my hair, cut my bangs right before we went into this, which is amazing. So I'm feeling so much better about myself. But, Mark, okay, what are the five products you always have in your kit?

[Mark Townsend]

Like, I cannot, cannot, cannot live without. Let's start with Olaplex volumizing dry mist spray.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

I'm obsessed with this. I'm a new. This is pretty new to me.

[Kirby]

It's new, though. It's new because I use. Yeah, I use that too.

[Mark Townsend]

Tracy Cunningham turned me onto it. I work at Mesh salon, Her salon, and she told me. She's like, hey, this is a new volumizer. You should try it. I put it in my client's hair. I love it.

[Kirby]

It's amazing.

[Mark Townsend]

And I spray it all over. Not just the roots, all the way down to the ends.

[Sarah]

And you really like the way it works?

[Mark Townsend]

I love it because it does give me really great volume without making the hair look so dry. Right. So many volumizers have so much alcohol to keep the cuticle wide open, but that one gives you that volume but will allow you to have, like, nice, smooth hair at the same time.

[Sarah]

Nice.

[Kirby]

And it's a mist, so I feel like it's, like, lighter than other, like, volumizing sprays, I think.

[Mark Townsend]

So. Especially, like, root. Like, if you see, like, a root lift spray that you're really only supposed to put on on the root, like, this is more, like all over. I feel like it's like a mousse in a spray.

[Kirby]

I love that.

[Mark Townsend]

Like, it's a real great volumizer for all over.

[Sarah]

Okay, what's next?

[Mark Townsend]

If we're going the exact opposite direction and you're not going for volume, but you want to get rid of some frizz? I brought my Briogeo farewell frizz. This stuff is insane. Like, I used to do a cocktail of three different products in my hands. In wet hair especially, my clients have coarse hair, and you have to get that product in when the hair's nice and wet. So you seal up that cuticle and then blow dry immediately. This is like a power. Like, all those products put back in into one tube. Like, it gives me everything. It's the heat protectant that I need. It's going to seal up the Hair. And it really does soften the hair.

[Sarah]

You love Briogeo too.

[Mark Townsend]

This one especially. This is what turned me onto the entire brand. My best friend Aviva is a hairstylist. She's at Hair by Aviva. She told me about this because I know she has really coarse hair. Cause I blow dry it all the time. And she tried this, and her hair looked amazing.

[Sarah]

Oh, awesome.

[Mark Townsend]

So then I got it, and now I'm obsessed with it. But now I just found out about the dry shampoo puff, which would be in here.

[Kirby]

You need to probably in the next round. Exactly.

[Mark Townsend]

But I'm becoming obsessed with that dry shampoo. But this is the product that introduced me to Briogeo.

[Kirby]

Smells good.

[Sarah]

Okay, what's this? Living proof product.

[Mark Townsend]

Have you the instant E frizzer.

[Sarah]

Okay. This is my favorite Living proof. I mean, I love the dry shampoo. I really do love it. Oh, why?

[Mark Townsend]

I don't know. There's.

[Kirby]

Ooh, look at the tea.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, I know. I think I'm just. I put dry shampoo really through it. I go through a lot of dry shampoos, and I'm not getting the texture I want to. I mean, I use a dry shampoo. More of a texturizer.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

So not as an actual dry shampoo. So as a dry shampoo, it's fantastic.

[Sarah]

I like how powerful the spray is, especially for my bangs. I think that's why I gravitate towards it. But I wouldn't use it as a texturizer.

[Kirby]

Okay. It's too much.

[Mark Townsend]

It's a little too much for me.

[Kirby]

Okay. Because I feel like sometimes I go overboard with it. I do love it as a dry shampoo. But then I can feel it, you know, if I put too much.

[Mark Townsend]

Okay, same. Put it on a brush and then brush the through your hair.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

That way, like, you'll be. I mean, those powders and starches are literally meant to absorb the product or oil or sebum, whatever's going on, and then brush them away. They're really not supposed to be ever left in the hair or in the scalp. So you can put it into one step by spraying it on the brush first.

[Kirby]

Smart.

[Mark Townsend]

But this I spray on a comb. Like after completely doing the hair, we're all done. Then I spray this on a comb, on a wide tooth comb, and then comb through my waves, straight hair, whatever it is, to distribute this throughout. And it really does take down any frizz.

[Sarah]

I agree.

[Mark Townsend]

It like, it really is instant. This is in my pocket on photo shoots all the time.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

Like flyaways, anything like red carpet events, especially because it doesn't weigh down the hair.

[Sarah]

It doesn't make it oily either at all. Oftentimes with deep frizzing products, it's typically something you pump into your palm and like, work through your hair. And I really. My hair, I think, is prone to just looking greasy.

[Mark Townsend]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So I can't do that. I remember I got gifted this product so several years ago at a big Living Proof event, along with a bunch of other Living Proof products. And this is by far and away my favorite of theirs. I always have it on me.

[Mark Townsend]

Me too.

[Kirby]

It's a good one. So this Briogeo frizz product you would use on damp hair, like pre styling this at the end to finish.

[Mark Townsend]

Cause that's such a softener that you wanna blow dry that in. This is for like after you're all done.

[Kirby]

Got it.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, the event I was doing this morning in Santa Monica, it was very, very wet out still. And I was working with a client that had very coarse hair. And this kind of saved the day. I don't know that it's anti humidity, but I feel like it really does keep the hair from getting frizzy when you're in humid conditions. All right. I brought my days of dirt. Remember we talked about this last time.

[Sarah]

And we were like, what?

[Mark Townsend]

And you also have to smell it. It smells so great. This is my favorite kind of cream.

[Kirby]

And we just watch you do your hair in like literally two seconds with this.

[Sarah]

So why never go anywhere with you? I feel like I'm not. I'm not privy to days of dirt and what this does.

[Mark Townsend]

So, like, in your hair, I would put it just on the bottom few, like maybe 4 or 5 inches. Put it in your hands, rub your hands together, get it really, like, warmed up. And then you rake your fingers through there and it's gonna like piece out your. Look at exactly what it's doing to Sarah's hair. It kind of pieces out your hair. It gives it really good shine.

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

And I mean, I feel like I use products all the time to make hair look second or third day.

[Kirby]

Ish.

[Mark Townsend]

Cause I hate clean hair.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. But you also don't want it to feel like.

[Mark Townsend]

But you don't want it to actually be dirty and oily. So that's where this product is, like, amazing.

[Kirby]

And why do you like it on your hair specifically?

[Mark Townsend]

I usually use the paste. This just. I needed some shine in my hair before we went on camera, so I added that in there but the paste is usually for me, and then it smells great. I know we have to Finish with the elnet. L'Oreal.

[Kirby]

She's an icon.

[Mark Townsend]

It really is. It's untouchable at this point. I know that so many companies have tried to do it, and it's the new nozzles, everything else. This is just that tried and true. I can spray this in a client's hair a hundred times a day during a photo shoot, and I've never seen a flake.

[Kirby]

I feel like people have demonized hairspray, but in a huge way. They still need it, I still use it, and I still love my elnet.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, the aerosols have changed in a huge way. Like, big. I mean, Unilever, L'Oreal, like, Procter and Gamble. These companies, like, have really done the research about, like. I mean, they want their products to still be available without killing the ozone as well. So, like, they're making really good strides there. Yeah, it's all about compressed air now instead of, like, a reaction. Real, like aerosol.

[Kirby]

Aerosol, yes. And also, like, so affordable. Like, how much is a can? How much?

[Sarah]

I think it's probably. No. Yeah, it's gone up to, like, probably.

[Mark Townsend]

12 or 15 now. I think it's like, 15 bucks now. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Inflation.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, I still, like. You know, I'm always. I'm always terrified I'm gonna get caught, like, coming back from Europe. Like, am I trying to import hairspray? Because I have, like, 20 cans in my suitcase. Like, I just. I just. I like, I just disperse as many. Like, how many people are flying with me. Okay, so you can each carry two cans.

[Sarah]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kirby]

Funny.

[Sarah]

Okay, Mark, what is your favorite type of event to work? You've talked about editorial, you've talked about red carpets. Is there a specific event that you always get super excited for? Every year?

[Mark Townsend]

The first Monday in May.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

At the Gal. It really. I mean, it's like the fashion Super Bowl.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Like, it's. And the Beauty Super Bowl. Like, it's that night where people are taking crazy risks. Like, you throw all the rule books, like, all the rules in the book, like, get thrown out the door. And I'm sure people want you to, like, stay on theme and all that kind of stuff, but we kind of get to see, like, how people interpret the theme, like, in such a bigger way now. I mean, I remember when Met Gala was not at all. I mean, there were no cameras. There wasn't even a red carpet when it first started. So to see it, what it's become. You feel the pressure on that day and you also feel the excitement and the adrenaline and like, your client's gonna hit the carpet. But it's such a special day for me because it's Ashley and Mary Kate day. You know, I. Like, I. The last time I even shared a client was I did Lizzie. So I did all three Olsen's in one day for the only time they've all gone to the Met Gala.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Sarah]

When was that?

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, the last time they shared. So I think maybe six or seven years ago. It was. It was a while ago.

[Kirby]

Someone in the comments was like, mark, when are they coming back?

[Mark Townsend]

Oh, to the Met Gala?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Yeah, I know. When we're in that room, there's. It's me, Anna Marie, the makeup artist, Christy, their tailor. Like, they don't have a stylist. They.

[Sarah]

They don't need one.

[Mark Townsend]

They literally style each other. Like, you see them like holding up jewelry. Like, you should do this one. I'm wearing that. Like, it's. It's beautiful the way they style each other. But it's also the. The thought process that goes into what they are wearing. I mean, I usually know what they're going to be wearing by December for the next year.

[Sarah]

Okay, so you haven't. But you haven't heard anything. So there's.

[Mark Townsend]

There was one year for Met Gala that we all showed up and the whole team is kind of looking around like, what are they wearing? They came in, I'm like, come on, what are you wearing? We have nothing planned out. And they're like, we don't know yet.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Mark Townsend]

And they just went upstairs and figured it out, put together two outfits and went to the Met Gala, which is incredible.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I love that you told the story about Ashley in that vintage Dior for ex machina. People that are not as good.

[Mark Townsend]

I got very, very credited about that in my comments on Instagram. Just about, like, know the theme.

[Sarah]

Oh, geez.

[Kirby]

Okay, sorry, sorry.

[Sarah]

It was ex machina. And I think I remember for people that aren't really fashiony, they were like, what are they? What is Ashley wear? Cause it was bright, you know, it was this beauty. It was beautiful. It was ornate. But it wasn't what a lot of everything else.

[Kirby]

Like, people were like, we want it to look like a machine or like a robot. But the story and the context behind it is incredible. And Jesus.

[Sarah]

And plays into her beauty look too.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

The air drying as well.

[Mark Townsend]

We knew that people were gonna show up in like robotic dresses that lit up or like opened up and all that kind of stuff. So it was fun to be super organic about it.

[Kirby]

Yeah. So on Met Gala day, you are with them until they step onto the carpet. Or does it depend?

[Mark Townsend]

I show up at one of their apartments and we get them ready there. Again, because none of us share with other clients. Like, we're not racing around trying to get anywhere. So we have a nice afternoon getting ready.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

Like, we sit around and have coffee and talk before we even get anywhere near hair and makeup. Gosh, where was I?

[Kirby]

I was going off on another story about that. Like, they leave and, you know, they're good to go.

[Mark Townsend]

Oh, my gosh. Although there was one year at the Met Gala, something really, really bad happened on the carpet with the lighting situation. Everyone at the Met Gala was orange. There was like sepia lights. Yes, yes.

[Sarah]

But I also have a bone to kid.

[Kirby]

Everybody.

[Mark Townsend]

Everybody.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Everybody was really. It was. Everyone. It was. Everyone looked orange.

[Kirby]

She was just especially orange that year, unfortunately.

[Mark Townsend]

I don't know if I told you, but Anna Marie, the makeup artist who always does Ashley and Mary Kate for Met, we always go around the corner and we have a martini each while we wait for the photos to come up.

[Sarah]

Nerve wracking.

[Mark Townsend]

Not on Met Gala. Not with. I mean, again, like, we map it out. So if we have three to four hours to get ready, we do hair and makeup. They are completely dressed. And then we do photos. Yeah.

[Kirby]

I mean, and you see them in every.

[Mark Townsend]

Most of the time. Those photos are never, ever, ever, ever seen. They've. A lot of them have never seen the light of day, but we want to. Sometimes it's like, hey, you should switch sides. It'll look better if you're on one side. And now she's on the other side. Little things like that. But Anna Marie were sitting and I were having our martini. We're looking at the pictures and as the red carpet photos are coming up, everyone looks bad. Like it was. There was a serious lighting situation in there. And then I just said, like, let's make this executive decision. Threw the picture up as fast as I could. That picture got out first. And then we were so happy that it did because everyone picked up that picture. Because everyone wants to know what they're gonna wear. You never again. They style themselves. They're not going as guests of a designer. So they're doing their own outfits. So everyone's dying for that picture. So that I threw it up first.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Mark Townsend]

At least, like all the other big publications picked up that one. Instead of waiting for the better.

[Kirby]

That's A better picture than any other picture from like Getty or anything. Wow. They probably were so grateful.

[Sarah]

In my humble opinion. I think the lighting needs to be fixed at the Met Gala carpet. Maybe from what you're talking about that year forward, even last year, I'm like, they gotta figure out the lighting. I don't care that they have a bunch of stand up lights shining. That carpet is so wide and so big and where they stand for their photos versus what they look like. When you watch somebody come over for an interview, the lighting is ten times better than where they're standing.

[Mark Townsend]

Yes.

[Sarah]

They've got to figure something else out. I just think it's a disservice to the people that are so excited to be there and like walk up these steps for the lighting to be casting shadows or not be bright enough to not be able to highlight the hair, the makeup, the ensemble. I'm asking you, Vogue, please figure it out. I know there's probably no time to fix it before this year, but like.

[Kirby]

But there is, there is, there is plenty of time.

[Mark Townsend]

There's plenty of incredibly talented like lighting directors out there. I mean, and I'm not trying to.

[Sarah]

Shade any of them.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

But we need like a spotlight or something for these people so that they get the justice they deserve.

[Mark Townsend]

I agree.

[Kirby]

A thousand Alex Earl lights.

[Sarah]

Just like a wall, right?

[Mark Townsend]

Yes. Why not? Where you're taking the photos.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

At least where the photos are taken. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Should we ask some questions?

[Sarah]

Yes, let's ask some listener questions because we have a bunch that came in through the slack we said. Mark is coming back asking your questions now.

[Mark Townsend]

Hit me.

[Kirby]

Andrea C. Sorry if it's Andrea. Andrea. For those with paper straight hair, what products or styling techniques should we follow so that our hair holds a curl?

[Mark Townsend]

This is a tough one. I mean, because you really do need to. It almost depends on the porosity of the hair, like how coarse it is, because that's going to depend on what kind of products you use. Back in the day, we'd spray a section of hair with hairspray, then fire up the curling iron and burn it into place. I think now it's more about getting that hold. And also perms have come such a long way again. Like, I think we're going to see a lot of perms happening again because it's such a good way to get wave into straight hair. I've also been seeing set the hair on huge giant rollers and then use like a keratin treatment to kind of like set it in to that, that style or something else. That would be my. Okay, go get a perm.

[Kirby]

So the second part to that is, what styling tool does he recommend for easy to do curls set on a.

[Mark Townsend]

Smaller barrel than what you think you want because it's gonna help hold. And this is where I do enjoy an airwrap situation because it makes it so much. It's so consumer friendly and easy for people to use on themselves to do their own hair. And it's gonna give you a tight curl, but hold onto it, because especially if your hair's that straight, it's gonna fall.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

So set it into a curl, and.

[Sarah]

Then it'll fall into a wave for an airwrap. And you have stick straight hair. What products are you suggesting they use on the damp hair to be able to hold that curl a little longer?

[Mark Townsend]

I love a volumizer in that situation because it's going to give you a little bit of a hold. Like any kind of, I feel like spray gel. I haven't found one that I love. I always feel like they're a little too heavy. And even setting lotions, like, I haven't found one that I really, really love. I mean, Garen used to make one, like 20 years ago. If I could find it on ebay, I would. I would snatch it up. Maybe he needs to bring it back in arm co. Like, his original setting lotion was the craziest stuff. It was probably sugar water because it would make the hair hold so well. It was crazy how good it would hold.

[Sarah]

Garen, are you listening?

[Kirby]

I know. Bring a special request.

[Sarah]

Bring it back. Okay. All right. Mark, how do you style second day hair when you need to be out the door quickly and you only have four, five minutes? I have fine, frizzy, wavy, medium length hair. But maybe he can suggest a few hair types.

[Kirby]

Wow. Wavy, frizzy, fine.

[Mark Townsend]

Start with dry shampoo.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

On day two. And if you need the dry shampoo, like, literally to refresh the roots, like your scalp's got a little too much going on up there. Spray it on, massage, then brush it out. Like the brush out is so important. Or spray your dry shampoo on a flat brush. Spray and brush all the way from root to end. It's going to. I mean, the brush is gonna help take down some of the frizz right away. Coating that hair with that little bit of powder and starch is gonna give you a little extra hold again. So then you can very quickly hit it with. If you already have wavy hair, I would grab a large barrel curling iron, wrap huge sections around the iron just to, like, set a wave in there and then finish with, like, a de frizzer.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

Really quickly.

[Kirby]

I feel like people aren't brushing their hair enough.

[Mark Townsend]

I agree with. I actually really, really do agree with you on that. Just every night before bed, like, really brush from all the way from scalp to ends. Like, it's such a great way to get those natural oils all the way down the hair shaft where it's really needed. I mean, that's God's conditioner. Like, go ahead. Our mother nature's conditioner. Really, like, let it work its way down if you can.

[Kirby]

Do you have a favorite brush?

[Mark Townsend]

I love a Mason Pearson brush for that specifically because it's so good on the scalp. But also Sony Kashuk makes one for Target. That's amazing. Oh, it's the best, like, Mason Pearson, like, hack I've ever seen.

[Sarah]

It's like Sonia Kashuk really just.

[Kirby]

She's. She was ahead of the game.

[Sarah]

She is constantly just enduring and keeps going crazy.

[Mark Townsend]

Like, talk about pave the way.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I mean, I heard stuff when, like, we were in high school.

[Sarah]

Middle school.

[Kirby]

Middle school, yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Okay. I was assisting Danilo on that first campaign.

[Kirby]

You were?

[Mark Townsend]

I think so. Because Danilo and Sonia used to work together a lot.

[Kirby]

Wow. Back in the day.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mark Townsend]

She's the nicest, too.

[Kirby]

Oh, that's so great.

[Sarah]

Where's she based? New York.

[Mark Townsend]

New York.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Sarah]

Okay. Tanvi asks. I'd love to know about his experience in serving celebrity versus non celebrity clients. Is being a celebrity stylist as glamorous as it sounds?

[Mark Townsend]

No. I mean, let's just cut to the chase.

[Sarah]

No, it's not.

[Mark Townsend]

It looks it on Instagram. I mean, I'm super guilty of doing this. Like, you know, I'm not saying how bad it is and on my Instagram because I do want it to be upbeat and fun for everyone to be watching. I mean, I approach celebrities and non celebrities in the same way. It's so funny because I used to have the biggest issue with celebrity hairstylist. Am I a celebrity that is also a hairstylist? No. Am I a hairstylist that only works with celebrities? No. I've got. I've got a few, but I almost feel like a. I would say it's not as glamorous as it sounds because, I mean, there is, like, it's a competition. You know what? When. When you see me put up a picture of a client, there are probably four or five other hairstylists on hold for that same job. You know, we all get put on hold, and then the talent makes a decision that talks to their team publicists, like, availability is a. Is a big thing as well. But you're always told, like, don't take it personal. You know, they're just going in another direction. But how? You don't want me. How is it? It's as personal as it can get that you either didn't like me or my hair, or you're just going another direction. But, I mean, we never really talk about that side of this business. And it is competitive. We are competing. We are peers, but we are competing.

[Kirby]

It seems so stressful, too, sometimes on the opposite end when, like, you have two loyal clients who both want you for one thing, and then you have to decide. Like, I can't even imagine what that's like.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, that's a lot of times how your client roster shifts around because.

[Sarah]

You have to pick and you had to prioritize somebody else.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, I lost half of my clientele the first year Jennifer Lawrence went to award shows.

[Sarah]

Really? No way.

[Kirby]

Because you made a promise.

[Mark Townsend]

I made a promise. Oh, my gosh. I'm never gonna work again. I made a promise the day I met Jennifer Lawrence to her publicist. I was like, I'm obsessed. She's incredible. I want to work with her all the time. And her publicist, look, it was one of those, like, young Hollywood up and coming portfolios. There was like, 25 actors in two days that we were shooting. The only time I went up to a publicist and said, I really want to work with her, this publicist looked right at me and said, no. And I'm like, what? Why? And she's like, because she'll like you. You'll never be available for her. So. And she said, she's going to get nominated for this movie, Trust me.

[Sarah]

For Winter's Bone.

[Mark Townsend]

Mm. And I said, if you'll start booking me, I'll confirm the Oscars today, right now.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

And I held up. I lived up to that promise.

[Sarah]

Okay. This makes me so happy. Cause I love Jennifer Lawrence.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

She is my girl. I wish we were best friends. I just. I think she's so funny. Obviously, so extremely talented. Silver Lining Playbook, Joy. All of the things.

[Kirby]

And I see her picture when we're driving on Sunset. I'm just like, she's just a beautiful woman.

[Mark Townsend]

Gorgeous.

[Kirby]

And her hair.

[Mark Townsend]

I mean, that is some hair. She has insane, insane hair.

[Kirby]

And you had the foresight. You knew she was gonna be a star, but you also Got along with her.

[Mark Townsend]

There is. I mean, it sounds cliche, but there is that thing. Like, she was very young, but I was like, this is a movie star. Like, there is that it thing. Like, she walks into a room, fills the room with joy, but also, like, all eyes are on her, no matter where she is, because she kind of demands that attention. Just. I mean, she's, like, the most gorgeous creature on the planet. She's, like, tall, and she really does, like, like I said, demand kind of.

[Kirby]

Your eye, and then you lost half your clients.

[Mark Townsend]

Because I. I had to find other people that were going to be willing to share.

[Sarah]

I. There's more questions, but I actually want to go back to Met Gala. Do you have a. Was the favorite Met Gala you mentioned, the one for Ex Machina, or is there a favorite Met Gala you've ever done?

[Mark Townsend]

I'm literally trying to decide between two, because one. That was amazing. Amazing. Amazingly special to me was the first time Ashley wore the row. She wore a white column dress, and we had just cut her hair into, like, a super asymmetrical bob.

[Sarah]

When was that?

[Mark Townsend]

I'm 52 years old. I can't remember anything. And we glued a crystal belt to her back that went down her spine.

[Kirby]

Oh, cool. It was Ashley. You said Ashley. Okay. Oh, yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

So it was 2009. Do you see the back, though?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Mark Townsend]

It was a belt.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh. Right here.

[Sarah]

That's so cool.

[Mark Townsend]

We used latex to glue that down.

[Sarah]

So does the makeup artist do that?

[Mark Townsend]

I did it.

[Sarah]

You did it. Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

That was a real, like, collaboration. Everybody in that room was kind of helping out.

[Sarah]

Okay, so 2009 is one.

[Mark Townsend]

Yeah. And then I don't know the year, but Mary Kate is in a red almost. Sure. It's lacroix. She's very blonde.

[Kirby]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

She has almost red eyeshadow on that. I just thought the hair makeup was so beyond. Yes.

[Kirby]

This, I feel like, is very iconically Olsen.

[Mark Townsend]

Very this look. Molly Stern did that makeup.

[Kirby]

I love Molly Stern.

[Sarah]

Molly Stern has an epic episode of Gloss Angels.

[Kirby]

She also has some stories to tell.

[Mark Townsend]

I know. Gosh. She and I have traveled the world together many times.

[Sarah]

Who's your. So working with Mary Kate specifically, or other clients With Molly? Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Molly and I have gone to Asia with them, Europe with them, and we've done many Met Galas together.

[Sarah]

That's amazing.

[Mark Townsend]

With Ashley and Mary Kate.

[Sarah]

Your clips of the podcast went super viral on Instagram and TikTok. What was the response from people did. I mean, there we see the comments, but, like, in terms of the industry, did you get any responses from people?

[Mark Townsend]

It's. Well, the. The first clip that went up when I. I was talking about rates and how brands pay us and everything like that. I was overwhelmed, actually, by the support from my peers. Like, I. There are so many comments from, like, hair stylists, makeup artists. Like, every part of the glam industry kind of reached out to me and was kind of like, bravo. Thank you for saying it. Like, no one understands, like, what happened. Like, and it sounds.

[Kirby]

No one does. We had no idea.

[Mark Townsend]

And it sounds, you know, cocky of me to say, like, my rates got slashed, but, I mean, they really did. So we all of a sudden, like, going out of pocket to get ourselves to New York to do the Met Gala, and then you don't get paid enough to even cover your flight, your hotel, cars, and stuff like that, so you're losing money to do the job. You know, that's where these. These brand deals really came in at a great time and, like, afforded us the. The. To be available for our clients. But I. I love. I mean, my agent actually said, like, I was, like, clinching, like, clutching pearls, like, as I was listening to your podcast, like, your episode, like, how much trouble is he gonna be in? Oh, boy, am I gonna have to, like, do damage control?

[Kirby]

But were they happy at the end? Okay, great, Great. We love to hear.

[Sarah]

To hear that.

[Mark Townsend]

Like I said earlier, like, it's a competition, but we're also supportive of each other at the same time. Yeah, it's nice.

[Sarah]

Have you ever had a hair emergency? Like, I want to hear about the craziest hair story that, like, flopped.

[Kirby]

Oh, flopped. Oh, a flop.

[Sarah]

You don't have to say the client.

[Mark Townsend]

I'm gonna say this one because it's so good, and the picture is worth it. Oh, boy. Penelope Cruz at the premiere of Sahara. Okay, she wanted to do really big hair, and I was so into it. I mean, there was mousse, hairspray, teasing. The hair is ginormous, and then she's walking down the carpet with a camel. I had no idea that that was gonna be happening. And at one point, the camel starts trying to eat her hair.

[Kirby]

No dying this photo.

[Sarah]

You're kidding me, Mark. I mean, she's so beautiful, it doesn't even matter.

[Kirby]

She looks beautiful regardless.

[Mark Townsend]

But this is still just, like. I know. That's so rude, but that, again, that was the wind. The wind really exposed my teasing there.

[Sarah]

I mean, dead. Did she like it? Was she. I mean, clearly she liked it.

[Kirby]

I mean, I'm sure, like, in person, it was different than being photographed.

[Sarah]

I actually think it's a vibe. It's like Miley Cyrus hair at the Grammys two years ago by Bob. Oh, my God. I mean, incredible.

[Kirby]

I mean, it's very sexy.

[Sarah]

I'm into it. Honestly, you made it sound like it was way worse, but I'm like, that.

[Kirby]

One photo was not good. Also, these photos are just, like, so rude.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God, they're so rude. Look, half of her eyes are closed.

[Mark Townsend]

Well, none of those photos would like, if an event happened now. They would all get killed before they.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Okay, wait, actually, can you talk about this? Because I don't think people realize this. What do you mean photos get killed?

[Mark Townsend]

When you're on a carpet, I mean, your picture's being taken, I mean, a thousand times a second. So how many frames is that now that we have Things like Getty, like, Wire Image before and things like that. Like, they're not gonna put up, like, the worst pictures taken on the carpet. Like, they just toss those. Because again, like, we also see the photographer's name on each one of those that are put up there. Like, you see a name that puts up, like, ugly pictures too many times, that photographer might not get invited back. So that's certainly helped us out.

[Sarah]

Interesting.

[Mark Townsend]

And helped the celebrities on carpets out in a big way.

[Sarah]

Is there any truth to publicists or teams killing working with Getty or working with Wire Image? Okay, just making sure.

[Kirby]

That's why sometimes it takes, like, a day for photos to show up on Getty. And you're like, yeah.

[Sarah]

I'm wondering why everything is taking so long.

[Mark Townsend]

Sometimes people get approval. Sure.

[Sarah]

And edits are made.

[Mark Townsend]

Edits are definitely made.

[Sarah]

Okay, good to know. I figured I've obviously heard so many things and we've been in this game for a minute, but I've never really gotten actual tangible proof. Just things that we can assume.

[Kirby]

These photos are so good. You can buy a post. I will buy you a poster.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. We are going to license this image of Penelope in front of Grauman's Chinese Theater.

[Mark Townsend]

Is this the one with the camel? Actually, he's eating her hair.

[Sarah]

That is actually the best story I've ever heard.

[Kirby]

You can't beat that.

[Sarah]

If I were Penelope, I'd be like, so there was a time that a camel.

[Mark Townsend]

No, no. I fed her hair to a camel. Of course she fired me.

[Sarah]

Of course not.

[Mark Townsend]

She has been working with someone who does her hair and makeup for decades.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

They are. Pablo. I think they are, like, super tight. Super, super, super. Good friends. And I think there was just, like, a point where he lived in Spain, so he wasn't coming over here to do her for events. And that's why I got to get in there for a minute.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Mark Townsend]

And I did a movie with her. I did three movies with her. Like, we bonded.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So let's say Dakota or the Olsens tell you it's been real. We love you dearly. You're our friend, but, like, not our hairstylist anymore.

[Kirby]

I'm gonna have a panic attack.

[Sarah]

How does that go? How do you.

[Mark Townsend]

It sucks, man. It hurts.

[Sarah]

Has that happened?

[Mark Townsend]

Yeah, it has. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

Well, even when, like, let's say you pick, like, a Jennifer Lawrence, obviously, that affects your other relationships, and so there's, like, sort of that conversation about things.

[Mark Townsend]

Absolutely. Yeah. That. Okay. There was one time, literally, my apologist called my agent and said, like, you know, I know this is gonna be tough, but I think she's ready to go in a different direction. Love. It's nothing personal. You know, all the typical stuff. And, you know, my agent had to call me and tell me that. And within, like, minutes, she was like, okay, fine. Meet me at Marek's. Let's go get some margaritas. That was a long. I mean, that was a long time ago, and, like, jobs didn't happen as fast as they do now. So you really did kind of bond with your clients, whereas now sometimes it.

[Sarah]

Just feels like a job.

[Mark Townsend]

It feels. Yeah. Lisa Walker was, like, my agent that took me from being an assistant all the way up until the beginning of COVID When she sold her agency. She gave me the best advice I've ever, ever, ever got in my life. And she's like, look, everyone you work with probably had a hairstylist before you and is probably going to have one after you. So just treat every day like it's your last day, and, like, enjoy it. Do your best work that you can while you're in there. Enjoy it. And then if that person does use somebody else, it opens you to work with another person as well.

[Sarah]

I don't think people think about this, though. Me, I'm the type of person that would be thinking the whole time, is this breakup inevitable? I would just be constantly thinking about, when's the day we're breaking up. It's like a really toxic relationship. I mean, I hate to say that. Clearly, you have great relationships with the Olsens and Dakota, and I'm not saying that that's ever gonna happen to you. I truly.

[Mark Townsend]

Oh, I know.

[Kirby]

I mean, you would feel Betrayed, but it's over. It is hard, but you have, like, a very deep connection with these clients. So, like, obviously. Well, yeah, hopefully. I'm like, don't be scared.

[Mark Townsend]

I'm just kidding. I'm playing.

[Sarah]

But there's so many people that have stuck with their teams. Like, Lady Gaga has been with Sarah Tano and Frederic Espiris since 2009. Okay. She's sometimes included different artists when Sarah's not available or Freddie's not available, but she has stuck with them. And we know so many hairstylists and makeup artists because they've been with a certain client for so long, it's really rare for them to jump around. But I have noticed this thing recently, and I'd love to write a story about it. There's a glam duo that I see gets brought in when this younger set of, I don't know, starlets or musical artists want to be the cool girl. A list. And it's like, immediately I know the two names that they're gonna call and bring them. It's a very young group of women. I find it interesting. And I was talking to a makeup artist about this, and she was like, it's because they want to associate as being in a certain class that they're not yet. I mean, it's kind of like, fake it till you make it. Essentially.

[Mark Townsend]

When we talked on my last episode of Los Angeles about social media, and I said, you know, it's not only accepted, but it's actually expected now. Some people put in the contract when they hire you. Like, you have to post about me. Like, I want to be on your grid. Yes.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Mark Townsend]

And we'll literally say, like, on the grid, not in story. Like, it does.

[Sarah]

It can't disappear.

[Mark Townsend]

Right, right. It does. Yeah, it does. Actually, I think publicists do that too. Publicists are looking at that, of course. Like, one thing that a lot of times, like, when new glam teams come in, like, you can see, like, they've. The talent has changed. Publicists.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Mark Townsend]

And then that publicist will say, like, I want you to work with this hair and makeup, and I want you to work with this stylist. And, you know, everyone should be influencing their friends and clients, but then that ends the relationship that you had. Like, because you're taking your PR in a different direction, does that mean you need to change your hair and makeup? Like, was there anything that wasn't working? Like, also talk. Like, have a conversation.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Mark Townsend]

Why doesn't the publicist call the hairstylist and say, like, you know, hey, I'm thinking about, like, she should be looking a little more like this. Like, have the conversation.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Sarah]

I would think that that would be the way I would go. I would say, mark, okay, we have this evolution happening. I'm completely changing gears. My hair's gotta look like this now. And you're like, okay, yeah, no more blowouts and bangs doing this or whatever. Sure, yeah. Very easy.

[Kirby]

Clearly, you're a very talented person that could figure it out.

[Mark Townsend]

So, you know, a lot of times it's, who do I want to hang out with all day?

[Kirby]

Right, right, right.

[Sarah]

The politics is so interesting. Alexandra French, we had her on the pod. She actually did bring this up about how she really had to tell herself to not take things so personally because she'd be working with someone and the person would love them, and then she wouldn't get booked with them, and she has this whole new team and then she finds out it's because it's easier when the team is all under the same agency because they know all of their schedules. I love that you're smiling and nodding.

[Mark Townsend]

That comes up a lot as well. Some of the, like, especially hair, makeup, and styling agencies are now being bought up by much, much, much bigger agencies. So then it's a. The umbrella's even bigger. So, I mean, you're talking about the talent, the photographer, the hairstylist, the makeup artist, the nail tech. Everyone involved is under one umbrella. What is so horrible about that is you've, like, as an artist, you've taken out your. All the power of negotiation. Like, you're being told where you're going to be. Instead of, call my agent, let's negotiate this and see if it is appropriate, if it is the job for me there I was on a team for quite a while, and it was. It was like we. We did everything with a client, and everyone was at one agency except for me. And they constantly kept trying to get me to go there. And then I finally told them, like, here's the worst part. Like, I make more than you for not being at your agency. Like, your agents aren't negotiating for you because the photographer is at the same agency. And even the. The studio only has to call, like, one place to get everybody so they don't have to negotiate. I want the power of negotiation.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh, I wish we had, like, two more hours.

[Kirby]

Well, I'll have you back.

[Sarah]

Fascinating conversation as usual, Mark. Okay, first of all, thank you for cutting my bangs, fixing my bangs. I have a cowlick, but my bangs look so much better.

[Kirby]

They look amazing. I'll be bothering you soon when my trim is.

[Sarah]

Yes, we love you dearly and thank you for sharing all of your fascinating stories with us. We adore you.

[Mark Townsend]

Thank you. I can't wait to come back.

[Kirby]

Yes.

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