Talc, Sulfates & Luxury Products Worth the Price with Cosmetic Chemist Ramya Viswanathan

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Talc, Sulfates & Luxury Products Worth the Price with Cosmetic Chemist Ramya Viswanathan
Podcast: Gloss Angeles
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Date: August 29, 2025
Guest: Ramya Viswanathan, Cosmetic Chemist & Founder of Compressed Beauty

This episode welcomes cosmetic chemist Ramya Viswanathan for a comprehensive, myth-busting conversation about hair care bars, ingredient trends, the science behind “luxury” beauty products, controversial ingredients like talc and sulfates, and practical advice for skincare enthusiasts. Alongside her insights as founder of the zero-waste haircare brand Compressed Beauty, Ramya shares her expertise from years of product development, answers listener questions, and offers honest takes on what’s worth spending on in the beauty aisle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Rise (and Challenge) of Hair Care Bars

• The "Bar" Journey:
  Ramya discusses why she developed a shampoo bar and the different methods of making bars, shedding light on why previous iterations often failed consumer expectations.

  • Most bars are either “rebranded soap,” wax-heavy surfactant bars, or pressed surfactant formulas. Only the last can closely mimic the performance of liquid shampoo.
  • Quote: “A lot of bars are rebranded soap...high pH, not suitable for hair, but people will use it because it’s a bar, but they don’t really like it.” — Ramya (02:12)

• Why She Chose Hair over Skincare:
  Saturation and innovation played a role—"We have enough serums...there's a lot of good moisturizers and things like that.”

• Sensory Experience and Formulation:

  • Lather and ease of use are key. Her bar avoids wax, lathers richly, and rinses clean, working on all hair types.
  • Unique upright design helps the bar dry out and last longer.
  • Tip: For use, rub in hands to lather first, or swipe a couple times on hair, then lather. (04:21)

Career & R&D Inside Beauty

• How She Got into Cosmetic Chemistry:
  Ramya grew up fascinated by beauty ingredients, inspired by seeing chemist Ron Robinson quoted in Allure. She entered the industry via a contract manufacturer, learning to develop for various brands, before joining Biossance to lead in-house R&D.

• Developing at Biossance:

  • Proud of the “underrated” lactic acid product: “If you have the right optimized percentage with the right pH... it kind of exfoliates and moisturizes at the same time.” (09:57)
  • Building R&D in-house at Biossance allowed “ideas upstairs” to turn into formulas quickly, versus outsourcing.

Ingredient Trends: How & Why They Happen

• Why Ingredients Trend:
  It’s often about ingredient availability (e.g., retinaldehyde was rare until “a company made a stabilized version”), or compelling data from suppliers, not just retailer or social buzz. (13:23)

• Overrated and Underrated Ingredients:

  • Most ingredients have data, but chemists love the basics: “If you ask any cosmetic chemist, most of us are going to say our favorite ingredient is glycerin. It’s cheap, it works, super underrated.” — Ramya (15:13)

• Emerging/Curious Trends:

  • PDRN (Salmon DNA): Popular in K-beauty, especially post-procedure, but its everyday benefits remain questionable.
    • “Is it life changing? I’m not sure. Does it sound interesting and intriguing? Yes, because it’s unfamiliar…” (17:17)
  • Volufiline: Used for facial volume—reportedly can “help with increasing fat in certain areas in vitro,” but evidence is anecdotal. (17:48)

Ingredient Myths & Real Talk

• Sulfates:
  Sulfates are not inherently bad. At low levels they’re effective and can require less formula manipulation than so-called 'safer' alternatives.

  • “Sometimes it’s better to use a lower level of sulfates. If they’re used carefully, there’s nothing wrong with them. They work, they're effective, maybe misunderstood.” (19:04)

• Talc:
  The talc controversy is complex. In pressed powders, uncontaminated talc is functionally great; consumers are wary largely due to negative associations.

  • “If it doesn’t have any contaminants in a pressed powder, it probably should be fine to use, but people are terrified of using it.” (19:57)

• Performance of Replacements:
  The By Terry setting powder (silica + hyaluronic acid) is highly recommended for those wanting talc-free.

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Luxury vs. Dupes: When Is the Splurge Worth It?

• Luxury Product Praise:
  Even with plenty of dupes on the market, Ramya highlights products that are truly innovative or exceptionally well-formulated:

  • Omorovicza Cleansing Foam: “It takes off all of my makeup and I don’t think it’s promoted to do that, but it does.” (22:01)
  • Sisley Rose Moisturizer: Great for summer, “really well made.” (23:03)
  • “I don’t say that to justify the price because it’s really well made...this brand, all their products seem innovative.” (22:35)

• What Makes a Product Worth It:

  • Innovation, ingredient quality, and formulation techniques matter beyond the simple ingredient list.
  • Products can appear similar on paper due to private labeling; innovation isn’t always visible in an INCI.

• Sourcing & Dupes:
  Purity, source, and method of ingredient integration all affect performance.

  • “So much goes into it.” (25:04)

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Makeup & Discontinued Product Gripes

• Foundation FOMO:

  • Ramya mourns Guerlain’s discontinued round-bottle foundation and Charlotte Tilbury’s Rock ‘N’ Kohl eyeliner in Barbarella Brown.
  • “Every time I find something I love, it gets discontinued.” (25:24)

• Potential for a Brand:

  • Ramya jokes about launching a brand “To Be Continued” just to resurrect discontinued favorites. (28:54)

• Haircare Nostalgia:

  • Terax’s Crema conditioner, known for its hydrogenated tallow glycerides, was a cult favorite for making “straw into silk.” (29:15–31:17)

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Practical Listener Q&A (Timestamps refer to question start)

• Teen vs. Mature Skin ([33:24])

  • Teens: Avoid strong actives; protect barrier; treat acne carefully.
  • Mature: Can tolerate more actives like retinoids, may need richer hydration.
  • “The best thing you can do for your skin is just keep it really well hydrated and don’t go down the super active path.” (34:14)

• Skincare in Hot Weather ([34:51])

  • Most stability testing is done to ∼40°C (104°F); higher temps (e.g., in Sacramento mailboxes) can degrade sensitive actives.
  • Moisturizers generally safe; be cautious with vitamin C, retinoids, lip balms.
  • “Certain ingredients might degrade with heat...it’s probably better to just be cautious when you’re ordering in summer.” (36:13)

• Why So Many Coconut Derivatives? ([37:06])

  • Abundance and chemistry: “Most of the starting materials are either coming from petroleum, coconut, or palm.” (37:17)

• Mixing Silicone and Water-Based Products ([38:09])

  • Layer water-based first, silicone-based after. (38:17)

• Ingredient Layering — What Not to Mix ([38:35])

  • Hypochlorous acid doesn’t mix well (stability), but can be layered with time between applications.
  • General rule: “I’m always a big fan of less is more…” Consider alternating actives by day (skin cycling).
  • “Things that focus on hydration usually play well with everything else.” (40:25)

• Silicone in Oily Skin Products ([41:11])

  • Used for sensory feel, but “People assume oily skin doesn’t need hydration, it actually needs water.”
  • “I don’t like silicone primers...I like a primer that’s more tacky and dries down.” (41:44)

• Finishing/Setting Sprays ([42:03])

  • Ramya doesn’t use them; most are like “hairspray for your face.”
  • Hairspray analogy makes Sarah & Kirbie cringe, but agree they have their uses for special events.

• Sunscreen Reapplication ([43:01])

  • Chemical filters degrade after UV exposure; minerals (zinc, titanium) can be lost via wear or suspension medium.
  • Realistically, almost no one perfectly reapplies on the face, but do your best, especially outdoors.
  • “The recommendation is to keep reapplying. It’s not the worst thing if people aren’t reapplying when they’re indoors.” (44:12)

• Favorite Sunscreens? ([45:14])

  • Disappointed by most U.S. offerings; loves certain French/European formulas (especially Tatcha Silken in the blue bottle, La Mer SPF, Vacation mineral).
  • “I think sunscreens are just okay...I want to be impressed.” (45:39)
  • Calls for brands to stop claiming mineral formulas won’t leave a white cast.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you ask any cosmetic chemist, most of us are going to say our favorite ingredient is glycerin. It’s cheap, it works, super underrated.” — Ramya (15:13)
• “Sometimes it’s better to use a lower level of sulfates...If they’re used carefully, there’s nothing wrong with them.” — Ramya (19:04)
• “It’s so boring, but it works so well.” — Ramya on glycerin (15:30)
• On discontinued favorites and product nostalgia:
  “Every time I find something I love, it gets discontinued. I don’t know why…” — Ramya (25:24)
• “So much goes into it.” — Kirby, about the complexity of sourcing and formulation (25:04)
• “Most people assume oily skin doesn’t need hydration, it actually needs water.” — Ramya (41:11)
• “I treat it like it’s La Mer or something, warm it in my hands to make it more enjoyable.” — Ramya, on making basic sunscreen feel luxe (46:24)
• Proposal for a brand: “To Be Continued—where we just recreate discontinued products.” (28:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:10] – How shampoo bars are made and why most fail consumer expectations
• [05:35] – Ramya’s career path, fascination with ingredients
• [09:36] – Lactic acid: an underrated but effective ingredient
• [13:23] – How ingredient trends emerge (e.g., retinaldehyde)
• [15:13] – Glycerin: Cosmetic chemist’s secret MVP
• [19:04] – Sulfates: Not the villain they're made out to be
• [19:57] – Talc: Real risks vs. public fears
• [22:01/23:03] – High-end product recommendations and what makes them worth it
• [28:54] – Idea for a “To Be Continued” brand recreating discontinued faves
• [33:24] – Listener Q&A: Skincare for teens vs. mature skin
• [34:51] – Stability of skincare in extreme temperatures
• [36:13] – How heat affects actives like vitamin C, retinoids, lip balms
• [43:01] – Why sunscreen must be reapplied—and why most don’t
• [45:14] – Sunscreens Ramya recommends (and why she’s not wowed by U.S. formulas)

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Closing

Ramya’s blend of technical expertise and approachable advice made this episode a goldmine for beauty enthusiasts and skeptics alike. With clear-eyed honesty, she debunked ingredient myths, praised products worth their price, and encouraged thoughtful, less-is-more routines. For those wanting more, follow her on TikTok at @breakingbeakers and buy Compressed bars at compressedbeauty.com.

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For further details, check out the show notes & links in the episode description.

Transcript

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[Ramya Vishwanathan]

G L A M Los Angeles hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah]

Welcome to Los Angeles. Okay, so we teased this a little bit on slack because we wanted to know what questions you had for a true cosmetic chemist. And wow, you guys had a lot of questions and also really good questions. Like I was like, our listeners are so smart. I said that to Matt yesterday. I was like, wow, so smart. So today we have a true cosmetic chemist on the podcast Friend of the Pod. Ramya Vishwanathan, you are cosmetic chemist and founder of Compressed Beauty, which is a zero waste hair care brand. You've been in the industry for over a decade in product development, formulation and manufacturing. And we're just so, so excited to pick your brain and ask you all these questions that our listeners had. But also, Kirby and I have a bunch of questions for you too.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Sounds good and I'm so happy to be here.

[Sarah]

Thanks for coming.

[Kirby]

Thank you for coming on. I actually, before we get into all of these questions, can I just kick things off, please? So in 2012, I think it was 2024, Sarah and I predicted that bars were going to be very popular. And not just bar soap that you clean your body with, but for hair. We were starting to see a little bit of that get popular and then I think it kind of died down. Even though the skinification of hair was really popular last year, we didn't see as bars as we thought enter compressed.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And now we have a really beautiful formula when it comes to hair care and in a bar. So can you talk a little bit about why you wanted to go the barre route?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It's really interesting because we've seen, you know, a lot of people ask me why I didn't do skincare, but I'm like, we have enough serums, there's a lot of good moisturizers and things like that. And I always think about the industry shifting when you're adopting something new and people don't wanna have something that they have to get used to. And bars kind of like natural deodorants. If you think about it, you have to get used to them. And I felt like there was a way to make it so that they actually felt better. So that's kind of how it came about. A lot of bars are typically. So there's three ways of making bars. They're either rebranded soap, which, you know, high pH, not suitable for hair, but people will use it. Cause it's a bar, but they don't really like it. The other way of making it is you take your surfactants, which is your cleansing ingredients in a shampoo. Shampoo is typically like 85, 90 water. You take the water out and replace it with waxes to give it structure. So it foams and it cleanses. But you have this waxy residue, and it's kind of like you'll use it because it's a bar. It doesn't feel great. It feels like clean and not so clean at the same time. Works for some people, doesn't work for everybody. And the way I'm making it, or the other way is I found a way to make it without using any wax. So you'd basically just press down your surfactants and it's the closest to feeling like a regular shampoo without needing the water or the bottles.

[Kirby]

Is that why it's called Compressed?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yes.

[Kirby]

I love that.

[Sarah]

I love that it lathers really well. So, like, if you had just the lather, you wouldn't know that it came from a bar.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Right?

[Sarah]

Like, you're like, oh, actually, this is just like the shampoo from my bottle. And then you can use it on all hair types too. Which I think is like, something you should be really proud of, because that's super challenging.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So it was exciting because it works across hair types. I made sure I tested it across the board. Even when I ran it for clinicals and things like that, we were able to capture a whole bunch of different hair types. And it's actually fun to use. I was initially just gifting it to people. It was a thing I made for myself, and I gifted it for people. And everyone asked for more. So I was like, maybe let's give it a try, see where it goes. And just started growing it slowly.

[Kirby]

Okay, I hate saying this is a stupid question, because there are no stupid questions, but what's the best way to use a bar for your hair? Should you be rubbing it directly on your head? Do you put it in your hands?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

People don't know that's. The funny thing. Everyone's like, cool soap. Like, it's not a soap. Rub it in your hands, then lather it in your hair. Or you could just swipe, swipe a couple of times and then lather it in your hair and then lather.

[Kirby]

So it is very similar to shampoo. What we've been told by these amazing professional hairstylists is they often see people just dump things on their head, and then it's kind of like thick, and it's not really. It's too much. When you activate it in your hands, it gives you a little bit more of what you need.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Love that.

[Kirby]

Okay, thank you.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I love it.

[Kirby]

That's such a fun. I love the backstory.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, so before that, you. And, I mean, you still currently, like, you work in R and D. You have an impressive career. The first time I met you was on a biossance press trip. And you were in the lab, and I was like, oh, my God, look at this cute scientist. And she was like, mixing it up. Like, mixing. I can't remember what it was. Was sunscreen or. No. Was it.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

We were working on. I want to say it was some kind of a retinoid at the time. Yes. Okay.

[Sarah]

It was a retinoid. You had been working there for a while, helping not just create products for biossance, but for a number of other brands. So can you tell us a little bit about working there and also, like, how you just got into cosmetic chemistry in the first place?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So going back to the beginning. So cosmetic chemistry was interesting. Cause it's not a. It's not. At the time, it was not really a traditional career path, and I kind of stumbled across it. So whenever I was always curious about ingredients and how things work. How do you make things? When I was a teenager, I used to. Whenever I had my Allure magazine, you know, new new copies, I used to save the articles that quoted Ron Robinson.

[Sarah]

Stop.

[Kirby]

You're kidding.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And I'm like, this is so cool. Cosmetic chemist. And, you know, I would just. I would look forward to any time he quoted an article. Cause he never spoke to. You know, it was cool to have a scientist who works in the space. And it was a really interesting. It was just inspiring. Are you.

[Kirby]

That's like, have you met him?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

We haven't met in person. I wrote. I wrote him a message once. Like, I used to save your articles.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God, you were gonna make his life.

[Kirby]

That is amazing.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And it was an inspiration and it was so cool to see. So love to see what he's done with beauty's dad, and he's still like a legend, and it's always great to see that. But I kind of forgot about the industry for a little bit, and then it just came back somehow and I got more curious about ingredients even when I was like, late teen years, had some acne challenges and things like that. You want to know what's going into products and you know, what's triggering certain things. So I learned a lot about ingredients just kind of on my own. And then the first job I took out of college was at a manufacturing firm that was making formulas for a whole bunch of brands. And it kind of. I just wanted to see who take a chance on me. And it happened. I contacted a whole bunch of companies and, you know, heard back from some and took something that I thought was a good opportunity. And it's interesting because prior to being in the industry, I used to think all big companies had their own labs and, you know, you only have like Estee Lauder and l'. Oreal. But a lot of companies would send out their manufacturing to these manufacturing firms because they already have the equipment and everything. So they're basically contracting out the service. So I started doing that, and over the next few years, I was basically writing recipes for a whole bunch of brands across skin care, hair care, sun care, and just learned a lot along the way. And it was super exciting. I love my job and that's how I started. So cool. It was interesting. Then a few years into it, I think it was six, seven years, then there was this interesting company that was coming about called Biossance. I was familiar with the squalene ingredient prior because generally you're buying like the shark kind. And Biossance was doing something really cool with a different process where they were using, you know, fermentation and sugarcane. And it was really unique. And they had just done sort of a rebrand. I don't know if you've seen what it used to look like before when they first came out was like these clear bottles and it was kind of cool, very like spa looking. And then before they did the green bottles, just done the rebrand in 2017. That's when I joined. It was a really small team and it was just to kind of build out the product assortment. So that was really exciting. And what I did is I brought R and D in house. So the other thing that's really interesting is most beauty brands, not all, but most of them are contracting out their formula development. And just because there was a science element With Bioscience, I had the chance to build R and D in house. And what's cool with that is you kind of know what's going into everything. We would dream up an idea upstairs and then I would go to the lab downstairs and basically come up with something pretty quickly. So it was kind of a fun way to develop things.

[Kirby]

So cool.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Did you like go into like Sephoras and like Ultas and be like, that's my baby.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I made that. It's so cool. And when you see it and the cool thing about just being in beauty and product development is the timelines are generally, you know, faster than other industries. If you think of just other types of, you know, drug development, industrial products, beauty, you have the chance to see your idea turn, you know, materialize in a period of a couple of years.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Is there a product you can talk about that you were like most proud of creating during your time there?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I, you know, I did like all of the products, I have to say, you know, going to be biased. I did like all the, I would say the one that I think is kind of underrated or that sometimes the ones that people forget about. And one of the sleepers, I think, at least at Biossance was my favorite product was this lactic acid product. And it's really interesting because it's a. I don't have you used anything with lactic acid in it.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I actually love lactic acid.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Super underrated. I always go back to ingredients. There's only like a handful that I think really work well. Lactic acid, glycolic acid, you know, aha's in general work really well. But people don't realize you need the right ph balance and the right level of emolliency and things like that for it to work. Everyone always thinks like you need like 20% of this or a high percentage. But if you have the right optimized percentage with the right ph sits at about three and a half because anytime you go above four, it's not going to be as active. So it was really well balanced. So it kind of exfoliates and moisturizes at the same time. So that was my favorite. There's all these other cool products and things like that, but I always find myself going back to that one.

[Sarah]

Do they still have it?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, they still have it.

[Sarah]

Okay, good to know. Yeah, I'll have to try it.

[Kirby]

Okay, so let's go back to compressed. Yeah. What has been the biggest challenge of making these high performance formulas in a zero waste format?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Part of it I say the biggest part that has less to do with the product is actually educating on it because right away people are, they think it's a soap. So just kind of distinguishing that and it's still a new concept. When I, you know, people are like, what do you do for work? I'm like, I make shampoo bars. Everyone's like, what are those? So it's still a relatively unfamiliar concept for a lot of people, but once people try it, they actually do enjoy it. I think on making everything, I wanted it to be sensorily enjoyable, it needs to lather well, it needs to rinse, clean. You don't want it to have any kind of buildup or residue and have it in a way that's really easy to use and make it intuitive and just kind of getting all those elements are pretty interesting. And then making it in like, you know, it needs to be easy to hold things like that. If you notice the bars actually stand up. And the reason I do that is so you don't lay it flat so you, it drains a little easier because you do need to drain them.

[Kirby]

Oh, what do you mean? Like have the wash off essentially, like in the shower.

[Sarah]

Dry down.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. So it needs to dry in between because you don't want to keep it stored in a pool of water, otherwise it's going to get kind of weird. So that's the only tricky thing. But I'm that being said, there's ways of working around it, but that's why I have them standing up, so they kind of drain a little bit more easily. So I think that part was interesting. And then the ingredient part of it, getting the surfactant ratios right to have a creamy foam. So most people don't. Well, I think some people. Have you noticed sometimes when you use a shampoo, sometimes the foam's a little creamier, sometimes it's a little more dense or it could be big bubbles. There's like this thing about having a tight, creamy foam that's really enjoyable and it just feels luxurious. So had to get. Spent a lot of time to kind of get the ratios of that. And you saw the hair swatch demo that we did. Right. So I had to buy some hair strands when we had done our dinner a few weeks ago.

[Kirby]

I know, I'm sad I missed the day of.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I had to go pick up some hair strands because everyone's like, you gotta do a demonstratable product. But we can't wash our hair at dinner. So ended up buying some hair swatches, some real hair swatches to see how it works.

[Sarah]

And it was a beautiful demonstration.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

You do a great job.

[Sarah]

I want to talk about trends. So, you know, we were talking about shampoo bar trends. We were also talking about, like, ingredient trends. We are always talking about, like, how all of a sudden we're seeing this ingredient pop up in every skincare product that's coming out. You know, Sephora is, like, really touting this one ingredient that's in all of these moisturizers or whatever it is. And so we're like, is there, like, the lab is telling, like, these brands? Like, in order to be successful next year, you need to have such and such in this product? Like, how does that work?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

There are a few ways of doing it. So sometimes a store might be driving it. They might see an influx of some things. Sometimes an ingredient might become more available or there's a new way of making it. So, you know the ingredient retinaldehyde. Yes. It's been around for a while, but there weren't that many versions of it. And it was really difficult to source. And this was maybe like, 15 years ago. 10, 15 years ago. And then all of a sudden, I started seeing a lot of launches with it, maybe like three, four years ago, way back when there were only Avene had a retinaldehyde, maybe a couple of companies in Europe, but there were not a lot, just because the ingredient was so hard to source. And then you end up having, you know, company that'll make a better version of it and make it more abundant so it's easier to source. And that's one of the reasons, I think, we started seeing more of it. And there was this one company that made a stabilized version of it just because retinoids in general are not very stable. There was this one company that had a stabilized version, and it makes it easier to use. And your product's not going to turn as quickly, and it has more longevity. So that is one of the ways you can see it. For some of the other ingredients, there might be a compelling story that an ingredient maker might have that's showing really good data. And that's when we start to see the influx of brands carrying these kinds of sort of trending ingredients.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Is there an ingredient that you think is, like, overrated that has been popular over the last five years? Overrated or not overrated?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

[Sarah]

Like, kind of like.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Well, does it actually do anything?

[Sarah]

You know, peptides have been in everything, like, for a long time, and there's.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Enough data that's the thing. And most of these things have enough data. I think there's a lot of underrated ingredients. Okay. Like my favorite. If you ask any cosmetic chemist, most of us are going to say our favorite ingredient is glycerin. It's cheap, it works. Super underrated. But maybe like, I just, I mix in extra glycerin with my own moisturizer sometimes. There might be something I like, but, you know, I have a big bottle of it just in case I need more. You do? I do, yeah.

[Kirby]

Glycerin, that's a.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It's so boring. Sparkling compliment. So boring.

[Sarah]

I'm just imagining you in your bathroom. You have like a jug of glycerin that you're adding to.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I'll send a picture and some creams. Yes, yes. There's this big jug of it. And sometimes you just need more. And it's so the thing is, it's so boring, but it works so well. Retinoids, depending on the kind you use, they're not for everybody. But there are certain types that might work better for some people. Like Adapalene is one of them. For acne. I think it does really well. Certain types of vitamin C, they're always going to be coming around because, you know, it does work pretty well and you have enough data behind it. So the things that really moisturize and help elasticity are what are doing a lot other ingredients, you know, trendy ingredients come up. Someone was asking me recently whether like PDRN is going to be here to stay or if it's just having an influx. I actually don't know, but it's just. I see it everywhere now. And.

[Kirby]

We just actually passed a billboard on my way here.

[Sarah]

Oh, really?

[Kirby]

Of PDRN Skincare.

[Sarah]

That's when you know.

[Kirby]

But they call it salmon. They don't say salmon sperm, but they say.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I think they do.

[Kirby]

But the one, the billboard though, they say salmon.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Like DNA.

[Kirby]

DNA.

[Sarah]

Thank you.

[Kirby]

Salmon DNA. And I was like, huh, interesting. Have you noticed I haven't used that one? Yeah, but like we bought. I bought us a rejuran from Stylevana. And it's like, yes, like those are beautiful products. But like they, I think are only really beneficial after you get like a treatment, like a microneedling or something like that. Like, I didn't notice like a definite difference in my skin after using it for four weeks, you know, just like as a regular moisturizer. So we'll see. I am very curious, but I also think that people, like, they just hear that it, you know, is Big in Korea. And they're like, we have to do this now. Like this is the thing we have to do.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Or you seem unimpressed by it.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Well, I don't know yet. I haven't. I'm wondering. I want to see more because, you know, I think everyone kind of is. Everything is promoted towards sort of collagen boosting, that kind of thing. And it feels trendy, but I'm sure it has some benefits. Is it life changing? I'm not sure. Does it sound interesting and intriguing? Yes, because it's unfamiliar for a lot of people. So I think that's probably where the intrigue comes from. And pro I'm seeing, I predict we're going to see more things in facial volume. Have you heard of volupiline? No.

[Sarah]

Oh, can you say that again?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Volupiline. I think I'm saying it right.

[Kirby]

I mean volley.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It sounds like Volupili. It looks like volupiline. It's been around. It's this ingredient that's been around for a while and a lot of people have been taking, you know, weight loss things for weight loss and then they start losing facial volume. So what this does, and keep in mind it has been along, it been around for a long time is it's supposed to help with increasing fat in certain areas in vitro. So I don't know, you know, it actually does that when you use it. But some people who've used it, I mean, I saw someone on TikTok who used it under her eyes and it looked like it worked. So is this what's going to be.

[Sarah]

In all those GLP1 skincare?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I think so, because we've been pitched.

[Kirby]

That hardcore and we kind of, we kind of wrote that off as anti aging, getting a makeover because it's like, doesn't everything stimulates the collagen and like.

[Sarah]

Isn'T that the goal always?

[Kirby]

That's the whole end goal. Voloofalein.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I like saying it. I know.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay. I love that. Thanks for sharing. Okay, before we get into our listener questions, speaking of data, is there any ingredient that you feel has just been largely misunderstood that is actually safe and effective, but you find that the consumer is still really weary or even fearful of.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I think people are coming around, but I still see with general cleansing products, people assume sulfates are really bad for you. And there's you. The interesting thing with sulfates is they work really well at a low level. You don't need to use a lot of it for a product to work. I think Once a lot of brands started taking sulfates out of liquids, the performance wasn't the same. And to get the same performance, you have to overcompensate with a lot of other ingredients. Sometimes it's better to use a lower level of sulfates. If they're used carefully, there's nothing wrong with them. They work, they're effective, maybe misunderstood.

[Kirby]

I can't even remember why people demonize sulfates. Do you remember? No, I don't even remember. I feel like it's been such a long time now that I'm like, why were we upset about that?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And some of my favorite liquid shampoos took the sulfates out and I'm like, this is tragic. They were so formula. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, wait. What about talc?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Talc? Ooh, that one. I don't have an opinion on it yet because I feel like it has so much baggage that I feel for companies using talc to have to get past depends on how it's used. If it's free flowing, it has. Maybe when you inhale it, you don't know what can happen. If it's in a pressed powder, I can see where it's functional. And I know for the brands that have taken talc away, the sensorial experience or the functionality wasn't the same. In my view, if it doesn't have any contaminants in a pressed powder, it would. It probably should be fine to use, but people are terrified of using it, so. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kirby]

And it's a big headache for the brands too, right now.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And there are ways. We were talking about setting. I have a thing of setting powder. It does not have talc in it. It's actually a really good one. And I didn't use it today, but have you tried the By Terry one?

[Kirby]

No, but now I want to.

[Sarah]

I can see it, but I don't use it.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

You know, I had it and I forgot that I had it and it's like I had done some travel. It was piping hot. Yeah.

[Sarah]

You were in Europe.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

In Europe, yeah. And just everywhere I went, it was piping hot. And this one kept me pretty. Like, it's like soft without drying and it just uses two ingredients and it's silica and hyaluronic acid. And that's it. Whoa.

[Kirby]

Really?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And it's so interesting because they have the right size of silica to sort of mattify but soften, but absorb at the same time. And it doesn't have any talc in it. So if someone's looking for something talc free, I'D always say, you know, that's, that's a good one.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay. Wait, I feel like we didn't ask you, but are there a few other like skincare or beauty products that you think are like beautifully formulated that you use?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yes. Where should I start?

[Sarah]

Let's start with skincare.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Okay, we'll do skincare.

[Sarah]

Like maybe like one or two skincare products.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Skin care. I'm thinking, I'm thinking there is this brand, moisturizer, cleanser. It could be anything, right?

[Sarah]

Yeah, anything.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. Cleanser. There's this brand called Omorovica and they have this cleanser.

[Sarah]

It's a very expensive brand.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yes. You know that blue cleanse, the cleansing foam.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Okay. It takes off all of my makeup and I don't think it's promoted to do that, but it does take off all of my makeup, which is great because I do the, you know, water resistant eyeliner and I don't, I don't want to do a double cleanse sometimes. And this one works really well.

[Kirby]

I love that brand. Yeah, I just have a hard time recommending it to people because of how expensive it is. But I used to one of their moisturizers last night. I think I agree with you. Obviously not having the same level of expertise as you, but they're really well made.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And I don't say that like I'll justify the price because it's really well made. And the interesting thing is so many, it's a. The beauty industry. There's a lot of products feel like we've talked about private labeling sometimes. You know, there are a lot of times you might see the same product under different branding and it's generally the same product. And that's kind of how dupes happen. But this brand, all of their products seem really innovative. So I always, you know, love to support that. And I can't believe I rebuy an $80 cleanser.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's saying a lot though.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It does really. It works really well. I tried Sicily's rose moisturizer, which is really interesting. I thought that was a good one for summer.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Maybe not for winter, but for summer that's a good one. I'm like deciding whether I should. I'm at the end of it. Should I rebuy it?

[Sarah]

I love rose mask from Sisley.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, it's a really good one. I should probably recommend something that's we.

[Kirby]

See you have access to. I actually love that you are talking about these higher end products because there is, to your point, so much conversation online about, oh, well, you could just get a dupe.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Or you could get this. And. And, you know, to your point, like, yes, some of them are white labeled and they are the same product. But then there's also the brands that are making something truly innovative and unique that I feel like deserve their flowers.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And even though, like, I'm like, thinking of Trader Joe's because, you know, they always try to dupe some things, like, even though it has the same ingredients does not mean it is made the same way.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's so true. Because there's other things in terms of how certain ingredients are suspended, how they're delivered, and it really makes a big difference. On the end formula, you might have the same key ingredient, like a vitamin C, you know, serum, but there might be other ingredients that are interfering. Or there might be, you know, for the brands that are sort of building innovation from the ground up, there might be something that's making it better.

[Kirby]

Does the source also matter? Like, if someone's sourcing a certain form of, I don't know, vitamin C from this place versus this place, like, does that matter?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

To an extent, yes. So there are certain commodity ingredients that a lot of times they might be coming from the same manufacturer and they might be under different branding just for the raw ingredients, but sometimes they're not. There might be one ingredient manufacturer that might be making a more affordable version. You have to really quantify to make sure it's exactly the same and they're not diluting anything. So just for people who are looking for a cheaper alternative to save some money on ingredients, you have to look at the true cost of everything. Of, do I have to use more of this to compensate for this? What's, you know, how pure it is it in terms of, you know, is it a 100% purity or is it cut with something else? So those are the kinds of things you need to assess.

[Kirby]

So much goes into it.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's the behind the scenes. It's.

[Sarah]

I wish I had your brain when it came to that stuff.

[Kirby]

Okay, so you mentioned two skincare products. What about makeup?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Makeup? This is so tragic. Guerrilan had this beautiful foundation that they discontinued, so I bought like five bottles of it. So I'm set for a while. It's that one in the round bottle. Do you remember that one?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Why did they discontinue it?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I don't know. Every time I find something that I love, it gets discontinued. I don't know why I need to write.

[Sarah]

You need to make it yourself.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's how I need to write to them.

[Kirby]

No, you should. You should write in. That's how I feel about the Valentino Foundation.

[Sarah]

Oh, they discontinued it.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I think they're reformulating it. I think that. Honestly, I think it's a trend thing. That natural finish and it was so gorgeous and it was a very thin formula. And I think that they're like, okay, we gotta make something a little more full coverage. Not even that. Like something more like glossy and dewy, like to cater to the younger generation.

[Sarah]

Yeah, come on.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I know, it's a bummer. It's a bummer because it was such, in my opinion, very beautifully formulated. I loved how it looked on my face.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I know, I know. And then in places since, I mean, I have. I'm saving whatever I have left and using it for special occasions. I think it was last year, a friend recognized, recommended to me this live tinted tinted moisturizer. I thought it was a really good product. And it's like, it's. I think it's an SPF 50 or something like that, which is nice because, you know.

[Kirby]

Oh, I think I. So it's the.

[Sarah]

Everyone is talking about that.

[Kirby]

It's essentially. It's the top. It's a topper essentially for their sunscreen, right?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I'm not sure. No, no, not that one. I don't think it's that one. So it's like a.

[Sarah]

Is it their tinted sunscreen?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's the one.

[Kirby]

They made those to cause hue guard. It was not 100% cast free. It's pretty close.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. So it's like a regular. It's like a non tinted. It has a little color to reduce some of the ashiness. But this one's more of a complexion product. So it does give you a little bit of coverage. It's not too heavy and it's just like something and pretty wearable. So I have a friend who. She looks like a photo filter. Like, she just looks like that naturally. I'm like, what are you wearing? She's like, this is what I'm using. So we've heard a lot about lip.

[Kirby]

Tinted the past couple of weeks.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Yeah. That's awesome.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So that was a good one. I think that's for makeup. What else on makeup? I went back to using that Mac pot, the eyeliner. Do you remember the one in the pot?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Does anyone still use that one? I don't know.

[Kirby]

I love a pot eyeliner.

[Sarah]

I think some people do because that.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

One is so og Charlotte Tilbury. My favorite eyeliner from Charlotte Tilbury, I believe was discontinued they came out with a new one which is under the same name. I don't know if I haven't tried it yet.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

But again, how tragic that I was.

[Kirby]

Is it the rock and pole?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's the one. Barbarella Brown.

[Kirby]

No. Why do they do this?

[Sarah]

This is so upsetting.

[Kirby]

I'm like, now learn a whole miscontin.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

To be continued. I undo. Like I have continued, though. To be continued.

[Sarah]

You can.

[Kirby]

That should be like incubator. You launch continued.

[Sarah]

Where we talk about, like, products that are no longer. And we like. It's like our plea to the brand to bring it back. But you truly have the power to recreate it. I could.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. I could. I could. So I, I. You should just have the equipment.

[Sarah]

A brand that's just recreations of discontinued.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I don't know. Maybe I'll ask people, like, what do they miss still? Because I've done some super.

[Kirby]

I literally have a product I need you to remake.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Pineapple Hush from benefit. Oh.

[Kirby]

Or the Urban Decay body lotion that literally is like a corset because it smooths.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

And they discontinued it. And I like, beg Wendy's Omner every day to like, make it for Cali. Right.

[Sarah]

Is just call a Brahmin.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I've done some investigative work for discontinued fragrances, and I've had some really good success for that. So a lot of discontinued fragrances I've been able to find.

[Kirby]

You heard it here first. Our first investment in anyone is in Ramia and we're starting a business called To Be Continued. And it's all just literally tbc.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Tbc.

[Kirby]

And then we're all just copying formulas that don't exist anymore.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

The other one, do you remember? Like, this one is in my memory because I just like, I'm like, what happened to remember the brand Terex. No, not everybody knows this one. Some people who. Who've been in industry long enough remember this brand called Terax. They had this hair mask called Crema.

[Sarah]

That's not it. This is a dragon.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Oh, gosh. T E R A X. Oh, T R. It was interesting.

[Sarah]

They had a very salon, like, it looks like you buy at the salon.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It was this mask. They started with this one mask and it was really interesting. And it had a form of tallow in it. Oh, no. I know everyone's like, tallow skin care, but it was like these guys were putting it in hair way back when. Wow. And it's called. It's some kind of hydrogenated talloglycerides. There's Some other conditioning in there, but people who have tried it swear by it.

[Sarah]

Interesting.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Really cool product. And it's just a really simple hair mask. But there was something about it when you used it. Like it turns straw into silk and.

[Kirby]

Like it still exists, the brand.

[Sarah]

But then it's like ordering.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

No, you can't order. You can't actually order.

[Kirby]

You can't. It says Terax Italia. Is this the right stuff?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's the one.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, it's here. You can order it. Original Crema, $24.

[Sarah]

But it's out of stock or. No, that one's not out of stock.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's interesting. Try ordering. I don't think it's gonna. I don't think anything's gonna.

[Sarah]

Or it's gonna be like, this is 20 years old.

[Kirby]

Okay. And what was the product name? Or what was it again?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Crema. The conditioner. The original Crema conditioner.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's like, it's here. Literally. You can buy a 70, a 34 ounce version for $70.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Oh, no.

[Kirby]

But it's out of st. That one's out of stock.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Okay. Yeah, that's the one out of stock. So I don't think any. But like they went away about five years ago. I want to say like five or six years ago.

[Sarah]

Tallow.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Tallow. Okay. For your hair, our friend. Tallow.

[Sarah]

Not for your sunscreen protector.

[Kirby]

I'm reading it says this award winning daily conditioner is simply the best hydrating hair treatment ever created. We can't tell you how it works. It's a secret.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Ramya can.

[Kirby]

But we can say that your hair has never felt softer or easier to style. Original Crema revitalizes all hair types by reducing frizziness, improving elasticity and detangling. It's a unique treatment. Okay, but Ramya, yeah, she blew the lid off of y' all's secret. Original Crema Terax Italia.

[Sarah]

We need to make a compressed tallow hair mask.

[Kirby]

But that's. That would be interesting. Like how does that work?

[Sarah]

It would like melt in your hands.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Like you would have, you know, when you make a regular. So would I do it as a bar? Sometimes I've explored because I didn't know if I was just going to do bar format for everything. As part of me is like, oh, maybe I've explored different things to do with the brand and which is always the cool part because I feel like things like masks, they need to be in a regular, traditional form. It's going to feel, I'll be honest, conditional. Mask bars are not the most Intuitive and I recognize that. So, like, I'll just stick with the shampoo bar, I guess. But I feel really tempted because you like the feeling of like what a mask feels like. And interestingly, even though there's tallow, there's only so much oil and butters you can put into a hair mask. You know what I mean? You actually need a lot of water in those formulas for them to work well. And then, you know, if there is something like tallow, it'd probably be a couple of percent or something like that, but it still works. But you have these other conditioning ingredients that are sort of of, you know, doing the heavy lifting. But if you get the ratios right, it could be really enjoyable.

[Kirby]

Okay, well, I'm gonna have to use my compressed bar and then I'm gonna have to order us the original Crema and see if it's the same thing.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It was interesting because I first came across it in. It was like a Cosmo feature so long ago, like more than 20 years ago. And it's one of those. Some news anchor was using it and I really liked her hair and I was like, I want whatever she's using. So I ordered it immediately. Ulta used to carry it a long time ago.

[Sarah]

Wow. Yeah, I mean, this is our girl.

[Kirby]

Because she used to read. I feel like I should be a cosmetic. I feel like we could have like just a three hour conversation with you about all that.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Cosmetic historian or something like that.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Literally, yes. You need to start a TikTok and just talk about.

[Kirby]

Or a slack. Or not a slack.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Sorry.

[Kirby]

Or a substack.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Substack. You know, I finally made a substack. I haven't, I think I've posted on it twice. So maybe I'll like get back to it.

[Sarah]

Yeah, to. Please do. This is so fascinating.

[Kirby]

We have so many questions that we do want to get to from our listeners. So we're going to start with Disa. Wade says. Hi. I have a few questions. Do teen and mature skin really need drastically different ingredients or is it more about usage?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Both apply. So I would say with younger skin, I wouldn't go into getting, get too strong on actives. Okay. They don't need AHAs. They don't. They don't really need, need, you know, strong retinols or anything like that. The best thing to focus on is keeping the barrier protected because people have been destroying their barriers and they're going to see the consequences of that later. The best thing you can do for your skin is just keep it really well hydrated and don't go down the super active path. If there's teen acne or something, obviously you might want to do something, you know, treat that carefully, but just don't strip your barrier. So more mature skin can tolerate retinoids and things like that. So that's where you'd see the difference. And you might want to find some things that are more targeted, maybe more richer just because skin is, it's losing hydration and it needs a little more moisture.

[Kirby]

I know that, I think this is what DISA might be asking. But it's like when you mentioned acne, retinoids for acne and teenagers versus like a retinoid that you're using for mature skin. Like, how does that vary in your point of view?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So Adapalene is used for acne. I think regular retinol, it doesn't do as much for acne from what I've seen. Retinaldehyde does a little bit, but it does not work as well as Adapalene, which is specifically for acne. So that's where they would probably want to do something like Adapalene if they're having like some of that deep acne. At least I've seen it work for people.

[Sarah]

Okay, I'm gonna ask this question. Cause it actually surprisingly got a lot of like hearts. So like other people wanted to know. It's an interesting question from Michaela DeBolt. She said, as someone who lives in California, Sacramento Valley, with summer temperatures regularly in the hundreds, I wonder how this might impact the effic of the skin care I buy online. For example, I recently had a curology package sit in my mailbox all day and when I opened the package, the bottle was very warm. Should I avoid buying skincare online when it's super, super hot?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

You know, this might be an interesting take, but I would say if she lives in Sacramento, try to buy in store if she can. Well, it's curology, so it's online. Or if she can get the package as soon as it comes in, that would be the recommendation. So normally products, most brands are stability testing their products. Products standard is to do it at 40 degrees Celsius. I was briefly. 40 degrees Celsius is like it's still in the high 90s in Fahrenheit.

[Sarah]

Got it.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I think.

[Kirby]

Yeah, that sounds Americans.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, I know, I know. And like 50 brands will do some accelerated testing under 50 degrees Celsius. Celsius. But it might not be for as long of a period. Standard conditions. You're getting humidity to a certain level. Just to be able to age the product. Sacramento goes up to 120 degrees Fahrenheit. I was there for a few months like last year.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And it gets piping hot. So I remember ordering a box of chocolates and that was my mistake. I ordered it online, it sat in the mailbox and you can't return them. And it was tragic. But same thing with skincare. There are certain products that will, you know, certain ingredients that might degrade with heat. So it's better to try to keep them at ambient temperatures. You don't need to refrigerate them. But if a product is not super critical, I. It's probably better to just be cautious when you're ordering in summer.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Again, moisturizers, I think are generally fine. But if it's like something like a vitamin C product, just be thoughtful. Same with things like retinoids. Just be cautious. Lip balms. Be cautious. Lip balms, because you don't want them. Sometimes they can melt and normally in standard places that are not, you know, with extreme heat, it should be fine. But if their package is, you know, left at the porch for a few days, there's a chance the products can melt.

[Kirby]

So Skincare Junkie86 asks, how come so many brands choose coconut derivatives? This makes it so tough on us beauty lovers with skin allergies. And then she put a broken heart emoji.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

No, I know. So most, at least a lot of the common ingredients that are building out the functional part of a product, like a moisturizer or a hair mask or anything that like any kind of an emulsion. Most of the starting materials are either coming from petroleum, coconut or palm. All of those things are generally abundant. Palm maybe not so much. But that's generally what's used as a starting material because they have the composition to be able to isolate some of those functional ingredients that create emulsifiers. That's where a lot of it is coming from. I am seeing other derivatives. People are. Some companies are using Brassica as a starting material. It doesn't always feel the same sensorially as some of the coconut alternatives. It sounds like, you know, you just have to do a little digging. There are some options available. It's a little trickier, but it's mainly because of abundance in the supply chain.

[Sarah]

From Lauren Johnson. I would love to know if there are cases where you can mix silicone and water based products. If so, I would love some tips on how to make that work.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Silicone and water based. I wish there was a little more elaboration on this one. But I think what I would do if it was two different types of products, I would use the water based product first and then layer the silicone based on top of that. That's perfectly fine. It's do okay, if that answers the question.

[Sarah]

Yeah, we don't know.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Hopefully it does.

[Kirby]

Emily Buckland. What ingredients really shouldn't be together in the same routine? Not from the standpoint of being too harsh on the skin, but more so are there ingredients that went in the same routine make one less or non effective or general guidelines for layering products with different ingredients for different purposes? I see this a lot when it comes to hypochlorous acid.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Do you. Are you able to elaborate on that?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So hypochlorous acid does not play well with a lot of other ingredients. And normally when you're putting it in a product, you want to use it itself. That being said, most of the time if you are layering and you wait enough time between each layer, it's fine to use. It's just that most of the time there's stability issues in the individual product.

[Kirby]

Okay. So you can put on your vitamin C or antioxidant serum and then spray hypochlorous acid and it'll still be effective if you wait enough time?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Generally, yes.

[Kirby]

Okay, thank you.

[Sarah]

But then is that what she was asking?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

You know, not from the irritation standpoint because that's generally when you say not to mix certain ingredients, the number one reason or like the most important reason is you. Same thing. You don't want to mess with your barrier. So sometimes if things are too strong or too active, you want to be thoughtful. Same thing with using like AHAs with retinoids. Yes, you can. But most of the time if you're doing it, you have to watch any irritation that can potentially occur. But a lot of times if it's in the same product, it's usually because of stability. So that's the case for the hypochlorous acid.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Yeah. So her question is actually asking about like the.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, yeah. Is it fine? Yeah, it should be fine.

[Kirby]

But is there anything else that you.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Can think of in the same routine?

[Sarah]

Like I feel like a lot of people who are now using so many different types of serums, you know, like and then maybe toners.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And they're not, you know, as well educated as you are and knowing that.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Right.

[Sarah]

They can use this serum after this toner and it'll be okay. Or maybe it's not.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. I think sometimes it's good I'm always a big fan of less is more. And you can do this kind of thing of some people like to skin cycle of, you know, alternate the products they're using by day. Like if you're using an aha one day, use the retinoid the next day. Things that are just focusing on hydration usually play well with everything else. So I wouldn't be too worried about them. Same thing with bha. So salicylic acid products, you can use them with other things but it's better to keep it simple and just kind of focus on concern.

[Kirby]

Okay. Zoe Myers. Why are so many products marketed towards oily skin types? Silicone based. As someone with oily skin, silicone based products, particularly skincare items have always made me look greasier given dehydration and caused breakouts.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, that's interesting. And I wonder the same. I would say so. Silicones are generally sensorial. So in a primer it might help. Help just mattify. It might not be nurturing skin the way somebody is looking for. And the thing is, people assume oily skin doesn't need hydration, it actually needs water. So that's going to kind of balance everything out. So you can actually just do general lightweight skin care moisturizers and that sort of thing. But I'm guessing it's probably primers. They're usually, usually the case.

[Kirby]

I don't like silicone primers.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, same.

[Kirby]

I like a primer that's like more tacky. Yeah. And dries down.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I just like using a really good moisturizer as a timer because I just feel like I start getting like little. It starts peeling and it's not totally not a great experience.

[Sarah]

On that note on the other end, do you like any finishing sprays or setting sprays?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I'm not, I. No, I don't know. I'm not. I don't use any. So I probably should try.

[Sarah]

No, but maybe there, there's none that are formulated the way that you would like them.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I just never got into it. I feel like I should try a lot of times it's kind of like hair hairspray but for your face. So normally hairspray, it has some kind of a film former that's locking everything into place. So you have to reduce the film formers to use it on your face. There's something about that that I'm just not.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I mean when you say hairspray for my face, I don't love that and.

[Kirby]

But you love one size.

[Sarah]

But I will use it if you like It. And you're going to use it every day. But, like, if I'm, you know, gonna be out in the sun or something.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Or if you have an event, I think it makes sense. If I have an event, it actually makes sense. Sense to use it.

[Sarah]

But I'm like, this isn't good for me.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

And I haven't been. I've just, like, never used it. This is maybe embarrassing. I've never used a setting spray.

[Kirby]

No. That says on your sub stack, you can start testing them and say, these are the best setting sprays according to.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

I love that.

[Sarah]

Okay. Tanvi Aurora. Why exactly do we have to reapply sunscreen every few hours? What does it do on our skin? Is it bad if we only apply in the morning and don't reapply the rest of the day?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Well, do you reapply your sunscreen? No.

[Sarah]

I mean, I try to. I try to. And then Kirby's really good. She has, like, a little powder compound.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Oh, good, good.

[Sarah]

I definitely try, but realistically not.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, I don't think anybody is.

[Kirby]

Not on my face.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

If I'm at the beach, I totally do. Or if I'm outdoors, I totally. If I'm indoors.

[Sarah]

But you have your little.

[Kirby]

Oh, my. My shise.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

We have the Shiseido one. Yeah. I tried the color signs. You know the one that's in the. Oh, the powder one.

[Kirby]

No, I haven't.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Like.

[Kirby]

You mean the brush?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I've been told that the brush is not as effective because you're not really getting the protection you need.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

This one is literally like a compact that you would go on, almost like a powder foundation. And this specific formula is only. You can only get it overseas. Like, you can't get it here.

[Sarah]

And even in Asia, like, even with the kids sunscreen, A lot of them are cushion compact. So, like, you can buy that.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Oh, my God, I love that cushion compact. But I do reapply body. Body.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Face is just harder.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, Same.

[Sarah]

Happening same.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So the reason you want to. So there's two parts to the. With. With chemical sunscreens. Once they're absorbed, they kind of. They degrade. So that's what happens. And they're. You're not. Once they hit the sun, you're not going to get that same level. So that's why you definitely need to reapply. Zinc oxide, titanium dioxide. They are minerals, so it's sort of different. But they're also really difficult to suspend. So some of the emollients that they might be. Be suspended and might Be flashing off. And with general wear or physical activity, you might be losing some of it throughout the day. So, you know, it might not be the same of how it was when you applied it, like, a couple of hours ago. So to get full protection, the recommendation is to keep reapplying. It's not the worst thing in the world if people aren't reapplying when they're in, you know, indoors and not general. You know, if you. If you. If you don't have the sun hitting you, you. It's good practice, too. And if you're able to. I think it's perfectly, you know, it's good to do. It's a good practice, but we also have to be realistic, so.

[Kirby]

Yeah, 100%.

[Sarah]

Do you have a favorite sunscreen, facial sunscreen?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

My favorite facial sunscreen. Ooh. It's another one of those, like, discontinued kind of things. It always happens all the time, and, like, every time there's something, it's always just good to. Yeah, I've been trying a lot, and I'm. I'm not impressed. I want to be, and I really want to be. And I did pick up one in Portugal. It's like a French. You can't buy it here. It's from. Is it from Aene? I think it might be from Aene. You can't buy it here.

[Kirby]

Usuri makes a really good one that you can't buy here.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

So things like that are good. And I. I stock up, you know, whenever I go. I think. I think sunscreens are just okay.

[Kirby]

But wait, is there a U.S. sunscreen that you are impressed with? This will, like, be going gangbusters in the slack if you can tell us one.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

This doesn't like. Sorry, y'. All. Wow.

[Sarah]

She has spoken dabble Answer is is speaks volume.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Should I make one? Should I do it?

[Kirby]

Yes, you should. And we would love to test it when you start getting into it.

[Sarah]

What is it about the sunscreens that you don't like? Is it the. Like, it doesn't feel elegant like they do?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah, they usually don't feel elegant. I'm someone who actually prefers mineral. That's personal preference. I just. I. It works well for me. And so then you should have no.

[Sarah]

Problem finding a good mineral sunscreen.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I know, but the thing is, like, you have to blend. It needs to be the right type of emollienc. There's one that I was using most recently. It was a mineral one from vacation. And what I like is it does leave a white cast, and they don't say it doesn't. You know what I mean? Like I think brands need to get used to not saying it doesn't leave a cast if it has a mineral, because it is going to. Some things are a little more blendable than others. And that one, I thought it was decent protection wise. It was good sensorially, you know, it feels. I try to treat it like it's La Mer or something, warm it in my hands and that sort of thing to try to make it more enjoyable. But you want something that feels more spreadable. There's definitely been been some ones in the past that just. They're not around anymore.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I love how Ramya's like, you can tell she's a fancy bitch. She's like. I want it to be like Spencer.

[Kirby]

I rumored up like La Mer.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Wait a minute. You know what? La Mer does have an spf. That's good. Like their SPF is really good. Yeah, they have it. It's that fluid one. That's actually a really good one.

[Kirby]

I was gonna ask you, when you said vacation. Are you talking about Shake Shake Their mineral face sunscreen.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's not the shake. It's the one in the tube. It's heavy and it's old. Like it feels like an old fashioned sunscreen and I just use it cause I know it's gonna stay and if I'm in, you know, it' resistant and all that. So that's why I like using that one.

[Kirby]

We do like vacation.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a good. It's a nice brand.

[Sarah]

Someone's gotta impress you. Ramya.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Who are the other ones? I need to try. Oh, you know what, there's this other. There's a. I prefer. Both are good. I kind of like their older one. Tatcha had a. They had a hybrid.

[Sarah]

Literally. Literally.

[Kirby]

I think it's in my bag.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

The one in the tube, right?

[Kirby]

Silken.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

The sil. That's the newer. The Silken.

[Kirby]

So the, the, the one.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

They did that. They do make it.

[Sarah]

Oh they do.

[Kirby]

So they have.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I think it's on QVC still, isn't it?

[Kirby]

So it's. It's in the blue bottle, right?

[Sarah]

The blue one.

[Kirby]

That's.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Well, I don't know if it's your favorite. I literally harassed them to be like, you need to be promoting this one better.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I really, really like that one.

[Kirby]

But it's also expensive. Expensive right here. She loves her $80 centscreen.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It's good. $80. It works really well and it's just like it goes on beautifully.

[Kirby]

So weird that they just stopped promoting. It's also confusing because there's the silken, right? Yeah, that's the og. Then the silk sunscreen. The silk sunscreen, which was like derived from the purple.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's the liquid one, Right.

[Sarah]

That's the more sun use as a primer almost. That's how the messaging is.

[Kirby]

That's the one that Daniel Martin helped create. But it's also confusing because it's like the silk sunscreen and the silken sunscreen.

[Sarah]

So that's like the blue and the purple.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

That's nice. But I don't know. Petition to bring that back the other way. They still have it. Okay, good to know.

[Kirby]

They really do. They just do not promote it. I do not understand.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I know, but that being said, I get it. Like, it's not a. You know, it's.

[Kirby]

It's not like sexy.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

It's not inexpensive, I guess. No, I think it, like, it actually feels really nice. It's not price point. I know.

[Sarah]

Like, yeah, competing.

[Kirby]

I just mean, like, in comparison to like, this is a primer and a sunscreen and all these things. Like, the consumer is like, oh, it does all these things. And this one just kind of is the sunscreen.

[Sarah]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting that they even still have it. I guess the QVC consumer probably really likes it.

[Kirby]

And me, I feel like it had.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

A deal on qvc. I think it's a little more. There was some QVC deal. I feel like I need to go back maybe.

[Sarah]

Are you watching QVC?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Am I watching QVC? I used to, like, I. Someone is though, 100% watching QVC. I always think of, like the Josie Moran body butters. I just think of qvc. I think it's like, you know, I mean, Aunt Tatcha, tatcha.

[Sarah]

It was built on QVC. I mean, that's why they are so successful.

[Kirby]

IT cosmetics.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Hello, QVC's gender.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Wow. We talked to you for. I'm not even kidding you, like, let's go to dinner. I. I just. You have amazing product recs, by the way.

[Sarah]

We also didn't answer, like, a few other questions. We have to have part two.

[Kirby]

Yes. But we are so thrilled that you were able to come and spend some time with us. I learned so much. I know our listeners learned so much. Where can everybody find you online and follow you?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

I do have a personal TikTok that I bring barely post on, but I think I'm gonna start after this. After today. It's breaking beakers.

[Kirby]

Cute.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Breaking beakers. I think Is that my handle? I think that's my handle.

[Kirby]

Well, yeah, get in our show notes.

[Sarah]

And then where can we buy compressed?

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Compressedbeauty.com compressed beauty does have a TikTok and it's a very small TikTok that we're trying to grow slowly and trying to find our people there. And it does have we do have a TikTok. Compressed beauties on Instagram ground too.

[Kirby]

Amazing. Thank you.

[Ramya Vishwanathan]

Thank you.

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