Vanessa Lee (1:56)

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Right before we started, I was like, okay, icons, let's get started. Because, well, one, I want to say thank you for having me. But two, also, I've been following your journeys for so years and years and years. And I know that you guys are pioneers in the beauty editorial space, and you guys stand by your journalism always. And I know when I see a Sarah Tan or Kirby Johnson post reel anything, I'm like, they've done the work, they've researched, and I'm paying attention. So thank you so much for having me.

Kirby Johnson (2:25)

Vanessa. That means so much. Thank you.

Vanessa Lee (2:27)

Of course. Of course. Happy to be here.

Sarah Tan (2:29)

Okay, so let's get into what's on your face. I would love to know maybe two things that you are loving right now, but also, are there products or treatments that you've been recommending over your 16 years in the aesthetic space that they're tried and trues, and you keep going back to them for a reason.

Vanessa Lee (2:45)

Yes. Okay, so I'll start off with something that I've been using now for probably the past 15 years. And I tell my patients about. It's a classic. It's not the sexiest thing, but I'm gonna start off with saying a patient, years and years and years ago, came in and she was 90, and she was the most fabulous 92. She walked in with a scarf draped over her. She had red lipstick on, huge glasses. And I was like, teach me all the things, please. And she had beautiful skin, like, thick, bouncy, smooth skin. Of course, like, you know, she had normal life wrinkles on her. But I was like, you teach me the ways. Like, what do I need to do so that I can be like you at 92? She was like, every other night, I slather myself in. In Vaseline. I put it all over my face. I put it all over my neck, my limbs, my feet. I have sweatpants that are just dedicated for my Vaseline. Nights that I just cover myself. I put socks on my hands and my arms. And it's just been. I was like, oh, you've preserved yourself.

Kirby Johnson (3:45)

Yes.

Vanessa Lee (3:45)

You've literally, like, alive mummified yourself. This is so amazing. And so I started using Vaseline. So I think it was what's on V's face on TikTok, right? When she was, like, a few years back on TikTok, she was like, you guys would be in such a better state with your skin if you just weren't afraid of slugging. That's when she really started talking about, like, you know, this, like, slight occlusive on the skin. I think a lot of people on social media took it way too far for the virility, you know, factor. But I was like, wow. I learned about it first through her. So I have very sensitive skin. I have combination skin. I'm actually going through a rosacea flare up right now from testing all the skin care from Korea that I got, by the way.

Sarah Tan (4:24)

Right?

Vanessa Lee (4:24)

That's what I get. So I have to put it on my cheeks because I have combination skin. I can't put it on my T zone, so I have to put it on my cheeks once every two to three nights just to kind of, like, make sure that that skin tissue is nourished, that it's hydrated. But also I need an occlusive because I dry out so easily. And then, you know, there's trans epidermal water loss when you're sleeping and you dry out so much more during the evening. So that happens to me a lot on the cheeks. So in preparation for today, I was like, last night I was like, oh, my gosh, I gotta put on the Vaseline. So the Vaseline for sure, that's my non sexy one. I usually don't wear makeup day to day and I work in skin and medical aesthetics, so I constantly have, you know, I want to glow on my skin, but I don't necessarily want to cover my skin. And I just discovered Kelly Zhang in the past year who's a wonderful makeup artist. And she has a hair and makeup studio in Pasadena. And she has this concealer stick that's so easy to use where if I have like a blemish or if I have like a brown spot, I just do a tiny bit on there. It's almost like the Hailey Bieber. You know how when you see her put on makeup, it's like the most minimal. It's like, it's like a little here, a little bit there. I don't use it classically, like how concealer I think is typically used. I just do it for like, if there's a spot or two and I just blot it out with my fingers, like she taught me. Yes. So on my face today is a full Kelly Zhang face. But day to day, that's what I typically use.

Kirby Johnson (5:48)

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And if ever you see me in glam, it's Kelly Zhang, of course. She's literally an angel. But like so talented, so humble, which it's like such a kind person. But her products, have you tried them yet?

Sarah Tan (6:00)

No. I didn't even realize she had a brand. And then I saw her post that.

Kirby Johnson (6:04)

She has a new eye cream out.

Sarah Tan (6:07)

Yeah, the eye cream. And I was like, wait, I didn't realize she made products.

Vanessa Lee (6:10)

Yeah, I didn't.

Kirby Johnson (6:11)

Her lip liners are incredible. The lips and then like her tinted, her skin tint, it's all so, so good.

Vanessa Lee (6:17)

Yeah.

Kirby Johnson (6:17)

But the concealer, that's a really good one.

Vanessa Lee (6:19)

She's so talented. What I really love about her and some, there's a couple other makeup artists that I've worked with who are good at this, but Kelly's really fantastic at this is your face shape, so your blush placement should be lower. So she's taught me a few things about my face where I thought I had it all figured out when it came to facial balancing, but I just don't wear makeup, so I don't know how to utilize different things on my face. For the sake of balancing the shape within. Like color. Yeah, in terms of color. And I thought that was really fascinating. And she just gets it. So I do love that product. As far as treatments with patients, what I've really been loving, especially because I am now a rosacea girly. This just popped up, by the way, in the past several years. I think it has to do with the hormonal changes. I'm overproducing estrogen these days. And with that comes seborrheic keratosis, which is growing on my eyebrow now, which in dermatology we call age barnacles, not fun age barnacles. Totally benign, totally fugly, and is like right here on the top of my eyebrow. I have to burn it off every other year. And then it grows back.

Sarah Tan (7:19)

Really.

Vanessa Lee (7:20)

It's one of those things with aging. And the other thing is, yeah, the rosacea flare up. So I've been using skin tox, so Botox and other neuromodulators, and this is proven studies, peer reviewed studies where we can place Botox all over the skin, only into the skin, not going into the depths of fat or muscle. And because it works similarly with hyperhidrosis, for calming down the sweat glands, it works the same way with your oil glands in the skin. So it calms that down. And then with less oil production, you have less irritants for that rosacea. What it's coming down to really is Demodex. These skin mites like to eat all of that oil on your skin. And if you're overproducing, you have an overpopulation of those skin mites. So unfortunately, all of these little suckers are living rent free on my skin. And the skin tox has really helped out. And so once I posted that and we did a few stories on it, and we also had, I think it was an article that was done by who, what, where that did an article on their experience with us on how it helps with rosacea, but also it helps with minimizing breakouts. Patients started coming in and they were like, I didn't know. I'm never into the use of Botox into the muscles and changing my muscle movement and changing my face, but I'll use it for skin. So that's been a really big thing for us at the office.

Sarah Tan (8:40)

Wow.

Kirby Johnson (8:40)

Yeah.

Sarah Tan (8:41)

I had no idea. I had heard about using it. It's kind of like stamping it into the skin. Is that right? Kind of like microneedling.

Vanessa Lee (8:49)

And then when we inject it, it goes a little bit deeper. So that the neuromodulator lasts longer.

Sarah Tan (8:54)

Ah, got it. Very cool.

Kirby Johnson (8:56)

I love that.

Vanessa Lee (8:57)

Wow.

Kirby Johnson (8:58)

Oh, my gosh. That's am amazing.

Sarah Tan (8:59)

It is.

Kirby Johnson (9:00)

Another reason why we love you so much is because you're so honest, like, with your followers and the community. And, like, we just learn so much from you. Probably, like, almost two years ago, you talked about getting a mommy makeover.

Vanessa Lee (9:13)

Yes.

Kirby Johnson (9:14)

And I just, like. I was like, thank you for, like, talking about this, normalizing it, because I just feel like there's this stigma. And, you know, moms go through so much. Our bodies go through so much. You have three kids.

Vanessa Lee (9:27)

Three.

Kirby Johnson (9:27)

Three. And, like, you had your kids over so many, like, how many years?

Vanessa Lee (9:31)

So my first one, we call him Kuya in Tagalog, it's big brother. So my oldest is turning 13 soon. And then I have my girl who's nine, Miss Penelope, dancing queen Gemini. And, yeah, she's the queen of the household, actually. And then we have Joaquin, who is two and a half. So it's. You know, after the first one, I almost felt like I was sexier because I had curves for the first time naturally. My build is, like, straight up and down, and so I was like, oh, my go. Look at these breasts. Look at these hips. This is amazing. Then after the second one, the recovery was not the same, and my shape further started to shift, and I was like, oh, this is interesting. I'm not really fitting into my clothes the way I used to, even though I'm back to my pre baby weight after some time. And then after my third one, the elasticity in my body was just like. My skin was just like, we can't do this anymore. And I was like, oh, I'd like to really enjoy myself and not have to. I found myself, like, always trying to cover up at the beach. And I'm at the beach all the time. One of my favorite things to do is metal detect with the kids. And so we're constantly at Sarah's face. Oh, like, a little confusion, and then.

Kirby Johnson (10:38)

Great.

Vanessa Lee (10:38)

That's a fun hobby. It's so fun. But, you know, you're out at the beach, you want to enjoy yourself. And I always found myself just, like, putting on, like, you know, just heavier, more covering clothing. And I was like, I just want to enjoy myself. I'm in my 30s. Not that that matters, but, like, I have a lot of skin I want to be showing at this age, and I want to have a hot girl summer. And I decided, I think it's time start exploring what surgery might be like for me. So I ended up getting a mini tummy tuck, which, by the way, I fully regret and should have listened to my surgeon. I should have done a full tummy tuck, which I'm going to get next year, by the way.

Kirby Johnson (11:12)

Okay, great.

Sarah Tan (11:13)

What's the difference between a mini and a full.

Vanessa Lee (11:15)

Yes. So a mini, the incision is smaller. And some plastic surgeons will say that the incision doesn't have to be smaller. It can be the same size as a full tummy tuck, but they don't go in and pull in your abdominal muscles together. And I just felt like, you know what, I just have some loose skin. And I chose a surgeon because of how nice and how nurturing he was and how caring he was. And he was like, if you don't want to do it, we don't have to do it. And now looking back, I was like, I should have just listened to him and I should have done the full tummy tuck because now that I've lost even more weight afterwards, that extra tightening of those muscles would have helped me out so much with the shape. So that's the only reason why I feel like I want to do another one. Because it was a pleasant experience. It was a hard experience when I say pleasant as far as, like post care. And I felt very prepared with what I was going to go through. My surgeon was like, here's the emotions that you're going to experience afterwards. You're going to highly regret it because you're going to be in pain, you're going to be swollen, you're not going to be able to see your shape right away because of all the swelling. And then when that goes down, you're going to be highly critical of yourself. Then you're going to go into, ah, should I have done this? And then once the healing is done, you're going to be like, oh, I've arrived. And so because I had that preparation, I was like, oh, I am experiencing all these things and it's fantastic. So I had that mini tummy tuck. I had 360 lipo all the way around. So my flanks, my stomach, and then also my back. And then I also had some of that fat transferred to my hips. I wasn't like a big, like, I don't need a big butt or anything like that. But I loved that slight curvature in the dress that I had from post baby one that really like shifted after post baby two. And then I lost weight afterwards from my Manjaro journey and all of that went to shit. So that's totally fine. Loved it while I had it. Didn't know Manjaro or Ozempic existed at the time and that. And it really kind of like blew up shortly after.

Kirby Johnson (13:08)

And that affected everything 100%.

Vanessa Lee (13:11)

So my hips are no longer. They're back to where they were, I guess, or would have been surgery pre surgery wise. But I have to say I'm very happy with my shape. I'm very. I feel so confident when I'm out in a dress. I feel great in a bathing suit. I would feel better if I had a second time next year, and I'm gonna do that. My husband's like, are you done? I'm like, just one more and then I'm done. And then maybe one, and then I'm. No, I'm just kidding. And then I'll be done 40 years, another one just. I'm that girl that likes to maintain, you know. I also did my breasts shortly after that with a different surgeon.

Sarah Tan (13:45)

When you say, did your breasts implants or a lift?

Vanessa Lee (13:48)

I did a lift. I was. I was open to implants. So from that first experience, I was like, you know what? When patients come to see me, I don't let them talk me into what they think is the best thing for them. I listen to what their concerns are, I listen to what their favorite features are, and then I come up with my best and safest plan for them. And if they want to deviate from, I mean, grossly, like severely, then it's just, I may not be the right provider for you, and that's okay. And I make that call. My first plastic surgeon, I think I. He allowed me to deviate too much, I think. And that's not anything negative about him. That's just what happened. And the second time around, I was like, if somebody says you need implants to get the shape that you want, if my plastic surgeon says that, then I'm just going to accept that. And that's a part of my journey, because aesthetically, I'm going for a very specific look. So I've always had larger breasts. I've always been double D, and now I'm a D with lifted. I mean, my nipples are where they need to be. Okay.

Sarah Tan (14:50)

They're looking forward.

Vanessa Lee (14:52)

We were almost touching the floor. I mean, it was. It was really insane. I actually showed Shawnee Darden is a good friend of mine, and I know that you guys are friends with her too. I showed her my before because she was like, oh, my God, you. Your. Your breasts are like Austin Power, you know, like the. Yeah, the fembup. Like, what? Show me a before. I showed her before. And she goes was, oh, my God. And I was like, stop. And she was like, you never told me it was that bad. And I was like, it just was.

Kirby Johnson (15:19)

It was just three kids.

Vanessa Lee (15:20)

Three kids. Yeah. And every single one of them. And I was just like, you know what? I'm okay with still being larger, but I just would like the shape to be. If I don't want to wear like a bra, I'm still doing all right, you know, And I didn't want to go huge. I didn't want to go bigger. And So I saw Dr. Elise Min for that, and I had the best experience with her. So she was like, you have dense breasts. We don't have to place an implant, but we may have to because you're fuller. Place an internal mesh, like an internal hammock with a mesh of sutures. And we may place some fat transfer at the upper pole of the breast because of how full you want to be up top. And then when I woke up, she was like, guess what? We didn't have to do that internal mesh. We didn't have to do the fat transfer. Your breasts were dense enough that when I did the suturing and closing and lifting, it's going to be the shape that you want. And I have to say, I show off my breasts every single time. We're a naked household. Also, like, I'm naked all the time, and I probably shouldn't be that way now that I have kids who are like, you know, entering junior high. But, like, it's just, I feel great and the shape is great and I recommend it to everyone. Like, if you are. If you are just feeling like you after, kids have lost a bit of yourselves, not just emotionally, but like, man, I feel really uncomfortable in my own skin. Why not take care of it? Just get a consultation and see how you feel. And if in your gut you're like, this feels good, I like this, then move forward. And if not, that's fine, you've at least had the combo.

Sarah Tan (16:49)

I love that Dr. Min was able to make a game time decision on what to do versus being like, I'm looking at this. I think actually we should just do an implant. And then you stuck to the implant and then you agreed to do the implant pricing. You know, there's so many things that I think people don't think about when it comes to factoring in their surgeries and what certain doctors may be pushing you to do based on the price or maybe taking less time for Them, they can see more patients. So I really love that she was like, guess what? We actually didn't have to do that. We observed the situation, and it made sense not to.

Vanessa Lee (17:26)

And she went over that with me prior to surgery, so she was like, here are all the different ways it can go. And I hope that it's gonna be this. And I'm planning for this to be what it is, but it might not be. So you're not gonna wa with, like, some surprise, right? And we've all heard that story before from one of our girlfriends or someone we've worked with, where you wake up and you have these huge boobs that you didn't ask for. So I appreciated all the transparency before, and I felt like I was truly a part of the plan the whole time. Wow.

Sarah Tan (17:53)

I love that. Okay, so you started as a nurse injector.

Vanessa Lee (17:57)

Yes.

Sarah Tan (17:57)

Then you opened the things we do. You're an educator. You work with a lot of brands in terms of, like, teaching other people how to properly inject. And now you're a content creator, which I think we've all become a content creator in this world. It's bonkers. All of us are making content. But what initially drew you to the world of aesthetics? You're so passionate about skin. You could have become an esthetician. You could have thought about dermatology at some point. But what drew you to aesthetics specifically?

Vanessa Lee (18:29)

So when I was. When I was 10, I believe I had a sleepover where I, you know, I grew up in the 90s, so mom wasn't really around during the sleepover. She's in the house, and we were generally safe, but, like, she didn't know or care, for that matter, what we were up to. So I took a bunch of her, like, Glamour magazines and Cosmopolitan magazines. We grew up with magazines, right? Like, it's like anytime you're at the grocery store, boop, boop, boop. You're, like, pulling all your favorites. So she loved magazines, and she had, I mean, Cosmopolitan and also Glamour magazine. If you guys remember back in the day, there were, like, these super, Super Sexy Headlines, 10 Ways to Orgasm, and, like, 5 Ways to make your man say yes. You know, like, all of that. And then there would be a section where it's like DIY masks for anti wrinkling at home. And there was a beauty. You know, there's a whole beauty section. And I was reading the magazines, and I almost felt like, you know, the character from PEN15, that show. Is it Anna? No, it's Maya, where she's like, she's, like, mischievous and devious. So she. I'm reading these magazines, and I'm like, o my God. I didn't even know you could do that to another human being with those, like, cheeky. And then it was like, the beauty section, and I was like, oh, that's really cool and fascinating. So I took all of my friends, and I was like, listen, we're gonna go to the kitchen. We're gonna make this beauty mask. And it's oatmeal. It's egg whites. It's a little bit of avocado. I remember it so clearly. And mixing it in, like, one of my mom's old, like, Tupperwares, which, in Filipino households, the Tupperware is not an actual Tupperware. It's like an old margarine butter, you know? And it's an old yogurt. Yes. It's an old cup.

Kirby Johnson (20:02)

Yeah.

Vanessa Lee (20:03)

It's some kind of food that is no longer in there, and that's now our Tupperware. So I remember mixing everything up, and we're all putting this on our faces, and one friend goes, what are we doing this for again? And I was like, for wrinkles, so that we don't get wrinkles. We're 10, you guys. Right? And so the first love that experience so much, and I was making my friends feel good. It was fun for us to bond over that. And I became the girl in junior high and high school that would get everyone ready before dances. I would just do fun things like that and connect with women, basically by making them feel more beautiful. And so, because I'm Filipino, this is gonna be, like, a constant theme all throughout. I can already tell. My mom forced me into nursing, and she was like, you need to do this because you're my only child. And I came all the way from the Philippines, and I cannot have you go to art school because I wanted to be in the arts. I wanted to do journalism. I wanted to write. And she was like, no, no, no. I did not. Her exact words. I did not come all the way here so you can be arting. Arting and arting. Yes. You need to go to nursing school. And I was like, oh. And then I had found that there was this. This is back in 2008, when I graduated nursing school. I had found that there was this less invasive medical side of, you know, plastics, where you could do injections to help kind of, like, minimize wrinkles, fine lines. You could help shape the face a little bit. Once I found out about that, I was like, game over. I'm going straight there. My mom also was like, no, you're not. And. And I was like, hold on. I paid for my own schooling. What's. How. Why do you get to have this control? But, you know, only. Only child. The parents. And I was like, okay, we're gonna do this. So I worked in neurosurgery and in the ER at UCLA for two years while I was in medical aesthetics. And after a couple of years, I was like, I just want to do this full time. I'm so good at this. And, Vanessa, you're a grown woman. Why are you letting your mom dictate your destiny? And so I went for it, and I just fell in love with it. And I loved being able to follow my patient's journey out throughout, like. Like, years and years. Some of my patients I've been treating for 14 years now, and I've seen their wins and, you know, losses in life and all of that. And in the er, you see the patients for a blip of time, and you never know what happens to them afterwards. They're off to the next floor, and it's like, oh, I hope he made it. Or, like, ah, I hope that kiddo is okay. And then a neurosurgery. You're with a neurosurgeon playing the music that he wants to listen to and whatever he wants to talk about for eight hours, and you're not connecting with patients. And I was like, really? This is not my thing. So I have just enjoyed my time in medical aesthetics. I worked in plastic surgery, med spa, dermatology, and I just love this field so much. And at 10 years, that's when I created the things we do.

Sarah Tan (22:49)

Amazing.

Kirby Johnson (22:50)

Okay, so obviously, you know, aesthetics inside and out. The industry has changed so much since you started. What are some things that you're really excited about? Some, like, trends that are up and coming that you, like, cannot stop talking about?

Vanessa Lee (23:04)

I'm really excited that we're going back to the natural face finally. I mean, it took so long, you guys, of so much of this craziness. And we live in Los Angeles, so we've seen the craziest of it. You know what I mean? And I think for the longest time, it was in our industry. I just think plastic surgeons, derms, aesthetic injector nurses, you kind of lose what real normalcy is, because everyone you speak to and everyone you're around and all your patients are all about aesthetics. You go to conferences, and everyone looks a certain way, and you just feel like, oh, this is normal. And Then you go out in the real world, like, say you step out in a normal town in San Diego somewhere, and you're like, oh, shit, I look a little crazy. You know, it's like, you're not okay going to cvs. And so it's a whole thing. So in the beginning of my career, I just thought this was just part of that world, maybe because I had started off in Newport beach, and it was really intense there in 2009, 2010. I was like, wow, this is a look. And I was constantly, constantly trying to educate my patients to do less. Like, I don't think we need more lip filler. And my bosses were always upset with me because it was like, no, it's legal. It's fine. They're safe. We can do this. And it's like, well, maybe just because we can do it, it doesn't mean we should do it. And, like, there's a better way to approach this. So I started realizing over time, people just. They're looking to fill something, and usually it's an emotional fill. There's a hurt somewhere. And so getting to know patients and also with NURS nurses, we're always, you know, advocating for our patients. And why do you feel this way? And how did you come to this conclusion that you need that? Asking all of those questions and spending much more time with patients I've built my career off of. Let's just preserve you as much as possible, or let's get you back to that favorite Facebook photo you have of yourself that you've kept up for the past, like, six to eight years, or if there's that favorite future that you have that you're starting to see fade over time. I get a lot of patients who say, I used to really love my eyes. They were my favorite feature, and my husband passed away, or I went through, you know, my doctorate program, or, like, after having two kids, my eyes just don't have that same luster anymore, And I don't know what's happening, but something has changed. Can you help me with that? Or. I've heard patients say, I used to love my smile so much, and now it always looks like I'm either angry or sad, and I don't feel that way on the inside. And that's what we really focus on. And I think esthetics is finally returning to that, the natural face where maybe we're not focusing on augmentation so much anymore, where we really were in the beginning, and now it's more. So how do we just maintain the best parts of ourselves for as long as possible. How do we just work on age delay? Like, we're okay with change, but let's just, like, slow it down a little.

Sarah Tan (25:51)

Bit and keeping that element of yourself.

Vanessa Lee (25:55)

Yes.

Sarah Tan (25:56)

People not coming in with a photo saying, I want Angelina Jolie's lips to.

Vanessa Lee (25:59)

Look like this totally different person. Correct. It's no longer like.

Sarah Tan (26:02)

Or, like, change the entire shape of my nose with filler and some aspect. Got it. I love that we've talked about this on the podcast, but there's certain advertisers that promote on billboards on 3rd street, where I drive by and I look at them, and I think to myself, this looks so dated. I know this is a new billboard, but the models that they're using are Kardashian clones. And I'm not saying that derogatory, because I even think that the Kardashians have evolved their look.

Kirby Johnson (26:31)

Yeah, they don't even really look like.

Vanessa Lee (26:33)

What'S on the billboard.

Sarah Tan (26:34)

They look like a version of, like, when Kim was still with Kanye. And it's very interesting to me to see how, like, people really latch onto that aesthetic. I think that we all go to events still where I'm like, oh, wow. Like, they really have this photo of Kim from 2017.

Vanessa Lee (26:49)

It's surprising to me.

Sarah Tan (26:51)

And, yeah, they want.

Vanessa Lee (26:52)

It's surprising to me when I see people at these, you know, influencer events, and I'm like, whoa, that's weird. You never innovated your look or you never evolved. Yes. You never evolved. It's kind of like we're stuck in, like, that 2015, 2016 face. And I feel like those are people who are not paying attention to themselves very much. When you have a good handle on who you are and what your face shape is and what you love about yourself, when you really pay attention to those things, you look like a genuine version of yourself who enjoys being in your own skin. And when you're so focused on what everyone else is doing and what you need injected to look like somebody else, that's what happens is you keep plumping and doing all of these weirdo things that get you looking to a point where you're finally upset, and then you're like, I want to dissolve everything. And it's like, let's just think of the slippery slope that got us here.

Kirby Johnson (27:45)

Yeah, Right. So on that note, do you have a lot of patients coming in asking to be dissolved, asking for their fillers to be dissolved?

Vanessa Lee (27:52)

I feel like I built my practice on that when I first started, was constantly telling My patients, no, no, no, we shouldn't do any of those things. We're actually going to focus on skin, thickening the skin, strengthening the scaffolding of skin so that we can fight against gravity more. We can, we can use less neurotoxin because now your skin has strengthened and it will battle against those dynamic movements because it's healthier now. And let's maybe stop putting as much stuff in here and adding, adding, adding. Let's just try to rejuvenate our tissues. And for the person who comes in and they do need facial balancing when it comes to fillers because somebody has a really soft recessed chin and they're desiring a little bit more balance in their lower face. We do it very artistically and with a lot of natural intention guidance and that you have. A lot of our industry doesn't love that because it causes so much more time to be taken up in the treatment rooms. And our practices in the US are based off of volume and let's see, as many patients as possible. When I was working at a previous office, I was pressured to see 15 to 20 patients a day. And you just can't take one, it's not safe because you're rushing and with some of these injectables you can cause very serious complications. And two, you're not listening to your patient. You're saying, I think you need this based off of this weird photo that you brought in. So I'm just going to give you this. So we take a lot more time now I see maybe six to eight patients in a day and that's what I want for all of our providers as well. So I was in downtown LA office actually this morning and I was looking at the schedule and I was like, ooh, 10 patients. Just make sure you're paying attention, you're having the conversations, you're not rushing. And I just want to make sure that we're restoring maybe the heart back into aesthetic medicine. And the reason why I hesitate with that is because it sounds a little cheesy, honestly. But it's just about connecting with people more and asking the right questions and we have better outcomes with it in medicine in general when we practice that way.

Sarah Tan (29:46)

I keep thinking about what you said in regards to a previous practice where it was 20 to 25 patients a day. That's essentially three patients an hour, right? At 20 minute intervals, yes. So do you think that it would be useful for people when they are going to seek an aesthetic provider, see how long their appointment lasts as an indicator of Whether this is a person that they should be seeing. Yes, Because I personally want somebody to spend more time with me, and I want to be able to ask my questions versus feeling rushed to get something.

Vanessa Lee (30:17)

Done and not feeling like you're burdening that person because you're looking for help and actually spending your hard earned money there. Right. So, yes, I think that's a great question. When you're calling in first, I think when you call in for a possible appointment, how do they treat you on the phone? Do you feel like you're bothering that person? Are they giving you the time of day and can you Almost. So when we do our training for patient coordinators, I say I want them to hear you smiling through the phone. Please don't rush. Please make sure that you're making a connection with them that's deeper. Because what an honor it is for someone to just, like, trust us off of a post that they saw. And it's medicine. It's a softer side of medicine, but it's still medicine. I was actually. I did a post on, like, hiring. We're hiring a new injector. And I was, you know, going through some interviews, and this gal was like, Yeah, I see 30 to 40 patients a day. And I was like, that's so scary. Oh, my gosh. And so in my mind, I was like, well, you're probably causing complications all the time. That's not what I said. What I asked was, how comfortable are you managing a complication like a vascular occlusion? And she was like, of course. As. As soon as she was like, well, I have to deal with those all the time, so I feel very confident. And I was like, yeah, of course. Because you're blazing through these faces, shoving filler in, there's a higher incidence of complications. And I was like, I just want people to see, like, eight patients a day, max. And she was like, oh, that's not gonna work for me. And I was like, it's not gonna work for me either. Like, it's okay. Wow.

Sarah Tan (31:42)

And I'm sure she thought, too, by coming to you and saying 30 to 40 patients, not only impressive, but something that is sexy to you as the person who owns this business. Like, oh, I can get through a lot of people to help make you more money.

Vanessa Lee (31:55)

Yes. Wow. Fascinating. And that's our industry's fault, right? Because she's only been in this industry at the time for about six, seven years. So the people who created that were the people who owned the practice, who were also medical providers. So that's on Us.

Sarah Tan (32:10)

Okay. You have a very thoughtful approach. When you're looking at somebody's face. You blend Eastern and Western philosophies, which I think is not only so fascinating, but really it is thoughtful. It's a very thoughtful approach. What are some core differences between Eastern and Western? And how do you incorporate both of them? How do you marry them within the things we do in your practice?

Vanessa Lee (32:31)

Great question. So we call ourselves an east meets west practice. And a lot of people have asked me before from articles like editors, what exactly is Eastern about your practice? Is it because of your heritage? And I love explaining this because I think we don't do a good job job explaining it on our website. We tell the story a lot on our socials. But when I go to the Philippines, so I like to go every couple of years when I go back home, if I tell my family members, I'm going to be right back, I'm going to go get a facial. A facial. They know I'm going to be gone for hours. Because you go to a medical spa, you go to a dermatology office and you will have a facial. You may also have vaginal steaming. You may also have a full massage. You might also be in a room filled with women where we're all using each other as like therapists basically, and we're just talking about the hardships in life. Life. You're there for hours and hours and there's acupuncturists. There's a lot of different components of what makes someone beautiful and comfortable in their own skin. Then you come home like four hours later. It's very akin to in Asia. I think you've seen all of these, like viral Korean posts of like how they do so many things at once. But I'm used to a more holistic approach where there's a relaxation component, there's a de stressing component, there's getting to what's going on with your gut component also. So within the things we do, we have Dr. Brian, who was on staff with us, who's a naturopathic doctor, and he does a lot of gut health and how it connects to skin health. He does a lot of that research. He does a lot of that deeper, you know, digging with patients of maybe if you have this. And he's helped me so much with my rosacea and just like oil content, all of that. If you have eczema, if you have rosacea, there are deeper questions we need to be asking other than here's a topical. That topical didn't work. Here's another topical. Like, let's do some questions. Let's get through. Through a history first. And his whole thing is, when you first meet him, you have 90 minutes with him, and he's going through some deep detective work, and he's doing these tests for you. So we have our naturopathic doctor. We also work with Dr. Daphne Lim, who is a licensed acupuncturist, and she's been our acupuncturist that we've been working with since we've opened. So if you have these deeper stressors, what else can you do? If you need cosmetic acupuncture, if you're going through hair loss, you're utilizing all of us. If you come in and in the initial consultation, we are getting a hint that you have body dysmorphia, then we like to refer you to the two licensed therapists that we've been working with since the inception of the company. Because maybe there's that hole that we were talking about that you're trying to fill with filler or something else instead. And maybe you need some more emotional support before we get to the point of doing some injections. And anytime I've suggested that to a patient also, they've never been upset or angry. A lot of times if somebody has body dysmorphia, they're like, I do know that I have a tendency to be unkind to myself, and it has caused a lot of emotional distress, and I do appreciate that. And quite a few of our patients after that have come back after they're cleared, and some of them are like, you know what? I'm just gonna get facials with you guys. Or I'm just gonna get the skincare. I'm good on those things. Which I love all of that. So it's a more holistic approach. It really is. And we just ask more questions. It's not that we have this nail mucin. It's not that I'm Asian. It's that we like a more complete way of treating beauty and confidence.

Sarah Tan (35:53)

It's not the superficial aspect of being Eastern in correct. I love that, that I didn't know all of that.

Vanessa Lee (35:59)

So I just don't do a good job. I know.

Sarah Tan (36:01)

I am so impressed.

Kirby Johnson (36:02)

I'm like, I need to go.

Vanessa Lee (36:04)

Yeah.

Sarah Tan (36:05)

Why is this not standard for every practice? Honestly, truly, the therapy component of that, I think so important, probably has helped.

Vanessa Lee (36:15)

A lot of people versus, as, you.

Sarah Tan (36:17)

Know, trying to nurse themselves with filler or Botox, like a little treat instead. It's like, oh, no, actually what's actually making me think that I need this if I don't?

Kirby Johnson (36:26)

Right.

Vanessa Lee (36:27)

Yes.

Kirby Johnson (36:27)

From the young patients that come in who, like you said, have this body dysmorphia or even face dysmorphia specifically. And then the older patients who have trouble explaining exactly what it is they're feeling, wanting to look like their younger selves. That's just, like, so incredible that you offer that.

Vanessa Lee (36:44)

And that's why the first year after opening, our reputation spread like crazy, because it was a very explosive first year for us. I think the numbers that we did were. It was unheard of, our first year opening, especially in such a saturated market. And it was because we were just doing the best for our patients, and we were just asking more questions and listening more. And could I have made triple, quadruple the amount of money by just, like, rushing everything but saying we had these things? Absolutely. But I always talk about the legacy in medicine that you're gonna leave as a provider. Cause we all take oaths, and it's like, at the end of the day, and a lot of our providers have children at the end of the day, like, what are we gonna tell our daughters and sons that we did in this industry? Like, are we gonna look back and be like, that was time well served, or are we gonna be. Look back and be like, I made a lot of money, you know? So it's just different.

Kirby Johnson (37:33)

Okay, so let's talk about. You are a Eastern face reader.

Vanessa Lee (37:38)

Yes.

Kirby Johnson (37:38)

What does that mean? And how do you incorporate that with your patients?

Vanessa Lee (37:41)

Yes. So face reading is a tradition and a facet of Chinese medicine that has existed for centuries, and it's utilized in our practice so that we can not only look at the thirds of the face and what stands out the most, because that's also from Eastern medicine. We're not only looking at the symmetry of the face. So the right side of the face represents your maternal side and your connection to your mother, and also the mask that you wear for the world. And the left side of the face is supposed to be representative of your more paternal side and who you truly are when you're around people that you love and by yourself. So we don't only look at those more aesthetic components, but we also take into account if there is a softening in an area where there should be strength. For example, in the Philtrum area, the Philtrum column, if there is softening and flattening in that zone, and if the color is more pale instead of rosy or healthy, that is an alert to a face reader. That there may be an imbalance in the reproductive system or in your creative portion in your life. So I take into account those things, and I take into account how this person in front of me may have a set of behaviors or beliefs and why they're asking for certain things and how can I serve them best? So in face reading, there is a physical component where we are looking at different physiological changes that are all connected to organs within our bodies. There's also a life pattern path form of it where you're looking at someone and you say, you know what? You have deep patterns of crow's feet that come straight across. That shows me that you experience and express a lot of joy in your life. If somebody has all the worry lines in the face, so deep forehead lines, deep elevens, deep marionette lines, and not a lot of joy around the eyes, you're asking yourself, as a face reader, how can I help this person maybe see things in a different light where I can take off some of the stress for her or how can I maybe this person is in a zone of concentration right now in her life, and how can I help her feel like she looks more relaxed because she wants to reflect that? So I have a patient who's an attorney, and she's like, I want things to be just, like, softened. I don't want you to, like, freeze anything. I want things to be softened in my face, But I need to keep my deep elevens because I need to show in court that I'm upset and I'm concerned, and I'm like, we can do that. And I love that. So it tells us about the patient. It tells us about who they are. It tells us about their purpose in life and what they're headed towards, and it also tells us physiologically what might be going on.

Sarah Tan (40:11)

Very cool. Okay, now read mine and Sarah's faces. Just kidding.

Vanessa Lee (40:14)

This is so cute. Do you have an hour?

Sarah Tan (40:17)

We're both wearing makeup, so maybe we just, like, come find you.

Vanessa Lee (40:21)

I'd love to. I'd love to do a reading for you guys.

Sarah Tan (40:24)

Yes. That would be so much fun.

Vanessa Lee (40:26)

All right.

Sarah Tan (40:26)

Something that I've been really excited to talk to you about is you recently went to Korea.

Vanessa Lee (40:31)

Yes.

Sarah Tan (40:32)

Okay. And we know Korea is to be, like, a global innovator and leader in terms of aesthetics.

Vanessa Lee (40:37)

It's heaven.

Sarah Tan (40:39)

Aesthetic tourism's huge there.

Vanessa Lee (40:41)

Huge.

Kirby Johnson (40:41)

We have so many questions.

Sarah Tan (40:43)

What they pay for? When we had Fariha Ali on the podcast, she is a nail artist. When she went to Korea, she was like, kirby, guess how much I Paid for Botox or something. It was absurd.

Vanessa Lee (40:54)

What did she say? She.

Sarah Tan (40:56)

I think she said, in total, she paid like, $100 or something.

Vanessa Lee (40:59)

Yes. It was wild.

Sarah Tan (41:00)

Bonkers. Okay, so we're like, we gotta go, we gotta go, but what treatments did you do there and what techniques are you wanting to bring back here for your practice?

Vanessa Lee (41:10)

Yes. Okay, great. I have so much to say about Korea. They're truly in the future. And also they are the hub for efficiency. Efficacy is the number one thing out there. Quality. Everything is aesthetic. Everything is cute. Generally, the people care about niceties and being polite and not being on your phone in public and respecting, you know, the peace of others, which I felt like I was in heaven. I was like, oh, my gosh. I called my husband because I was over there for a mini fellowship. I was shadowing two plastic surgeons in, and we had some hands on, too. But I called my husband. I was like, everyone is so polite here. Like, this is amazing. And me talking to you right now, this is extremely rude. So I'm gonna go. But I love you so much. But I love it here. And he was like, wow, you found such a nice place of respite out there along with your classes. So I absolutely love it. I have so much tea, I don't even know where to start. Okay, so what are these doing out.

Kirby Johnson (41:57)

There that we're not yet.

Vanessa Lee (41:58)

They're doing so many things that we don't think of just yet, and they're also not doing things that we think they're doing. So just to break it down, when I was out there with. I got two treatments. Well, I got many treatments, but I got treatments at two different clinics. Both of the doctors were like, we're not. They weren't suggesting for me to get the salmon sperm DNA injections, which everyone is obsessed with. Right. And here in the US I think the mirage is that we think everyone is doing it out there. And so I was like, how come you haven't suggested that for me? And they're like, oh, you. Yeah, we could do it for you. And I was like, oh, why don't you seem excited about it? And they were like, honestly. Honestly, you Westerners are really obsessed with it right now because you just found out about it. It's everywhere.

Kirby Johnson (42:41)

Yeah, it's like, everywhere.

Vanessa Lee (42:43)

Yeah. So I think a lot of people go there from the West. They ask for that treatment, and then they get it done, and it's totally fine. And some people do see a really big difference. Some people don't. But I was like, why don't you guys do it very often? Because the doctor was like, we don't really do that too much. Like us Koreans, us locals, we don't really do that that often. And I was like, why? And he, he was like, you just have to do so many treatments, and the trade off for the downtime that you're going through isn't really there for us. And I was like, what is the process and how often do people have to get this to maintain the results? And he said, you have to get it once a month for three months. And the downtime is like seven to 10 days for a lot of these people because it's like tons of injection sites, it's highly uncomfortable. You have those little bumps for several days. And then after the first three treatments, they suggest three additional treatments that are one to three months apart. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like a lot. And I'm only here for like, you know, a couple weeks. So, like, let's just whatever is the biggest bang for my buck. So they asked me, what is your goal aesthetically while you're here? And I was like, that's interesting because the other doctor led with, we're going to have you do a deep skin analysis. I'm going to talk to you about your shape, I'm going to talk to you about your skin, and I'm going to tell you what you need to do. And then she ended up not doing the treatments for me. So it was all of these, like, micro, little facials, microcurrent, a little, little bit of plasma on the face to heal my rosacea, a little bit of very, very, very light microneedling. Like, I think it was almost like a 0.2 millimeter very light. Because the doctor wasn't doing the treatment. And I was like, I loved her consultation. And then the treatment, I felt like I didn't really see a difference with they microneedled stem cells. And when I, I had an English translator and when I was asking what stem cell derivative is this is, is this from human, Is it from animal, Is it plant? And there was a back and forth for a while, and then they said both. And I was like, all three? Or was it plant and animal? And they had a hard time telling me, and I was like, oh, people just come to this clinic and like, blindly trust and just go for it. Where in the US we're like, I need to know everything. I need to know all the possibles of, like, what could, what could happen, all the adverse events, all the complications. My downtime all of that. And then the same people in the US Will go to Korea and be like, stem cells. And.

Sarah Tan (44:59)

Yeah, it's like, whatever happened.

Vanessa Lee (45:02)

Yeah. So. But I did do it for the plot, and I was like, let's see what happens. And it was fine. It was all just fine. And then I went to this other clinic, and they were like, tell me your goals. And then they were like, okay, then we'll do these things. So it was almost like I was driving that consultation quite a bit. But what my aesthetic goal was was to be tighter and lifted and more compact with my tissues without. Without injectables. I didn't want to do fillers. And they were like, great, so you need to do picosure toning for your hyperpigmentation. I was like, wait, what? I didn't even say that. I. And yeah, they were like, you have a lot of brown spots, so you need to do picosure for your full face and for your neck. And then you also need to do titanium lifting, which is actually from alma. And what I found out. If you guys had laser hair removal with ALMA lasers, by any chance?

Sarah Tan (45:46)

I've had laser hair removal. I'm not sure if it's an ALMA laser.

Vanessa Lee (45:49)

So there's quite a few ALMA lasers out there. There's Pixel. Yeah, they have an IPL as well. They do have a laser hair removal, but they have this machine called the Titanium tightening and lifting machine. And it is a laser that goes into the deeper tissue. So there's no ablative treatment. You're not breaking the skin. And it's three different laser wavelengths in one that are meant to, like, shrink, tighten, and lift. So they only do it in this portion of the face. They also offered Onda and Ultherapy. And I was like. They were like, this is a step up. Like, if you really want a smaller face, this is much stronger. And we suggest these things. I've already had buccal fat removal with Dr. Sharmala Sunder. The best, by the way.

Sarah Tan (46:27)

H. Love her.

Vanessa Lee (46:28)

Love her.

Sarah Tan (46:29)

Beautiful woman.

Vanessa Lee (46:30)

I had. She actually was like, we're not removing Vanessa. We're just reducing, because you are going to need some of that fullness. And I'm so glad that she gave me that guidance. So I was like, I. I can't take out more fullness in the face. I just need the ingredients that I do do have to be, like, tightened up. Yeah, yeah. And so I had that treatment done, and immediately I saw a difference. But as you know, even if you're at face gym, just doing some Massage, you see a difference. So I was like, let's see how long this lasts. And now it's been just over a month. And I still feel tightened, lifted, toned. And also I have less brown spots.

Sarah Tan (47:03)

Because of the pico short.

Vanessa Lee (47:05)

So that was great too. They also did Onda on the back of my arms, which. Which is fat dissolving. And it is also skin tightening, which is a machine that's from Italy. I've already done research on all of these things. Cause I'm like, can I buy this in the US Like, I want all of these things. The fat dissolving is so strong that you can only do like one to two treatments per year. That's it. One to two treatments per year, per portion. Because you can really dissolve too much. And if there's not enough fat tissue there, now you're wearing into some muscle, possibly, you know, there's. And that's why I think it's going to take so long for the FDA to approve it for us.

Sarah Tan (47:40)

Because a lot of things could go wrong with the wrong provider.

Vanessa Lee (47:43)

Yes.

Kirby Johnson (47:43)

Is it like an Emsculpt works or is it like 20?

Vanessa Lee (47:46)

It's like they put this gel on you. So I did it behind my arms. They put this gel on you and you're slowly heating that tissue up with something that feels like nothing is happening for the longest time. It's a 15 to 20 minute treatment and you're like, what am I spending my money on? Even is this happening? And then towards the end, it gets really warm and then it's done by the time it's almost unbearable. And I was like, I don't know, whatever. I'm in Korea, I'll try it. The next day I was like, is this in my head? Weeks later, I was like, my arms are shrinking. This is crazy. So, you know, I would fly out there again to do it again. Wow.

Sarah Tan (48:19)

And then do you have to go get another treatment of that?

Vanessa Lee (48:23)

I don't have to.

Sarah Tan (48:23)

You don't?

Vanessa Lee (48:24)

I mean, I'm happy with where I am.

D (48:25)

Yeah.

Vanessa Lee (48:26)

I feel great. Thank you. But I also feel like I've always had anti arms, you know, like I have just face again. You know, your aunties, when you're younger, they have such soft arms and they're just almost too soft as a kid. And you're like, oh my God, you're suffocating me. You're suffocating me with your soft arms. So I've always had just very soft arms. Plus I don't work out and I totally could, but I was just like, let's see if I'm gonna use that tightener and fat dissolver somewhere. I'd like it to be behind my arms. Plus, because of the plastic surgery, right? Like, I had everything, like, you know, just kind of snatched up. And I was like, that's what needs to match. And after one treatment, I was like, wow, this is truly, truly fantastic. And so I was like, if I do want to do this again, when can I do it and how often you can do one more within a year. That's it. And I was like, you don't need to tell me.

Kirby Johnson (49:17)

Yeah, that's great.

Vanessa Lee (49:18)

Wow, I love that, the efficacy, right?

Kirby Johnson (49:20)

Because even with, like, Emsculpt, you have to do it, like, so often, and it's so expensive.

Vanessa Lee (49:26)

I know.

Kirby Johnson (49:26)

It's like $800 a session.

Vanessa Lee (49:28)

It's ridiculous. Yeah.

Kirby Johnson (49:29)

Okay, wait. This is probably not new, but I saw it on my Instagram, probably because I've been, like, wanting to get a bleph, and I was looking at all these different things. So anyways, this woman got not a bleph in Korea, but she got threads.

Vanessa Lee (49:45)

I know exactly what you're talking about.

Kirby Johnson (49:47)

Threads.

Vanessa Lee (49:48)

Fantastic.

Kirby Johnson (49:49)

And it's less downtime. The bruising was a couple days, and that was it. And then it's removable. So if you don't like how. How it looks like, you can, you know, undo it. Her eyes looked incredible, and I was just like, sign me up. Like, see, can you do this in the States?

Vanessa Lee (50:05)

They're in the future. I know of a provider who is in South Orange county who does this. And she's Japanese from Japan. And she is Japanese and Korean trained. What they're doing is, if you think about how threads are placed into the skin, if it's placed too superficially, the lifting threads, they dimple the skin inwards. So it's almost an on purpose dimpling and adhesion of the tissues and pulling inwards. So it's almost like Kelly Zhang will use these little stickers, right, for the eyelids. Like, I personally have a left eyelid that's a little bit heavier and lower. And she was like, for the sake of symmetry, do you want to do this? And I was like, oh, my God, I forgot we could do this. So it's like that, but it lasts longer.

Kirby Johnson (50:43)

Yes.

Vanessa Lee (50:44)

So there are the threads that you can take out, and there are the threads that stay within the tissues, and then as it does, dissolves, your own tissue is building in its place. And then you have that for a couple of years, but it's not going to be comparable to, like, a surgical cutting bleph.

Kirby Johnson (50:56)

Okay.

Sarah Tan (50:56)

There's this video going viral, by the way. Send me that video. There's a video going viral of a woman saying that she thinks that blephs are out and that people will be wanting to return to hooded lids. I fully disagree with this take, to be completely honest, because blephs are actually one of the only treatments available that have very minimal downtime. You don't have to go completely under for them. They call them the lunchtime procedure for a reason. And it's one of the easiest ways to make you look more youthful. And as we know in this industry and in the state of 2025, people still want to look youthful.

Vanessa Lee (51:34)

Yeah.

Sarah Tan (51:35)

Point blank, period.

Vanessa Lee (51:35)

Yeah.

Sarah Tan (51:36)

So I don't agree with her take. Sorry. I don't know if she's an aesthetic provider. We've heard so much about blephs in the Internet sphere that now people are like, well, we've heard too much about this, so the other shoe has to drop. But I'm like, I don't think that's real life. I think people are still going to want to get a bleph.

Vanessa Lee (51:53)

Yes.

Sarah Tan (51:53)

It's still on the rise in terms of what plastic surgeons, when they do their research studies, it's still one of the top surgeries that people are doing.

Vanessa Lee (52:01)

Yes. And for good reason. Because when somebody has loss of volume in the hood of the lid and also a combination of loss of elasticity, it's not a younger or more aesthetic look. You know what I mean? Like, that's not gonna in fashion when your actual eyelid space is being sacrificed because this tissue is now weighing you down. But I do think that the appreciation of, like, hooded lids is definitely something that's becoming hotter and hotter, which is great, because, you know, that's us, right, girlies? And we're like, love to be appreciated. I just think when social media talks in these, like, absolutes, and then so many people follow suit, and it's like, wait, wait, let's just look at case by case, what's happening here? And we've seen this. Numbers bluffs are only going up. And it's just. It really is just something that we need to pay attention to ourselves more. And what's going on for this person that I'm living in my skin. I have to look in the mirror and see if this. This is something for me or not. And just kind of go based on customization of your personal experience.

Sarah Tan (53:00)

Totally.

Vanessa Lee (53:00)

Wow.

Sarah Tan (53:01)

I wish we had another hour to chat. With you.

Vanessa Lee (53:03)

Me too.

Sarah Tan (53:04)

This was so much fun, Vanessa. Where can everybody find you? Where can they make an appointment to see you or one of your providers?

Vanessa Lee (53:10)

Yeah, you can find us on socials, on hethingswedo, co on IG and also TikTok and my page is vanessaleearn and we have four locations all throughout Los Angeles and also Chino Hills which is my hometown. Shout out 909 forever. And we also have one location in Oahu as well. Wow.

Sarah Tan (53:32)

Amazing. And taking over.

Kirby Johnson (53:33)

Vanessa, your podcast.

Vanessa Lee (53:35)

Yeah. Oh yes, my podcast. Podcast. We are coming out with season four this summer so prepare yourselves because we're doing something a little different this season. Woo.

Sarah Tan (53:44)

Awesome. Thank you Vanessa.

Vanessa Lee (53:46)

Thank you so much. Thank you guys.

Kirby Johnson (53:48)

Oh, this is amazing.

D (53:59)

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