The Key to Healthy Hair Color with Julia Roberts’s Go-To Colorist Kadi Lee

Summary

Gloss Angeles – “The Key to Healthy Hair Color with Julia Roberts’s Go-To Colorist Kadi Lee”

Date: February 27, 2026
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Guest: Kadi Lee (Celebrity Hair Colorist, Co-Founder of Highbrow Hippie)

---

Episode Overview

In this dynamic and personal conversation, Kirbie and Sara go deep with Kadi Lee, renowned celebrity colorist (makers of Julia Roberts’s signature shades) and founder of Highbrow Hippie salon. The trio covers everything from at-home hair disasters and evolving industry trends to the emotional highs and lows of working with A-list clients and creating sustainable, holistic haircare. Kadi offers a candid, practical perspective on modern hair health, debunks viral TikTok trends, and shares invaluable advice for anyone obsessed with color—whether you’re a salon regular or braving a box dye at home.

---

Kadi Lee’s Hair Kit Must-Haves and Artistic Approach

[01:29 – 02:43]

• Favorite tools:

  • Aveda paddle brush (“my little good luck charm…still the same one from beauty school: detangles, not falling apart”)
  • Mason Pearson brush
  • Christophe Robin shade variation masks (“little punch to color—gold, chestnut, copper—for when you don’t need a full toner”)
  • Unique technique: “I go to Blick and get these Japanese fan brushes…the kind used for ceramics. That’s my little secret for natural painting.”
    • Quote: “I don’t use a regular hairbrush paintbrush when I do my balayage. I actually go to the paint store.” – Kadi [02:19]

• Artistry: Kadi’s approach blends technical skill and true artistry, seeking natural, dimensional color while preserving hair integrity.

---

The Bond Builder Debate

[02:54 – 05:13]

• Skeptical on Overuse:

  • “I’m not a fan. [Bond builders] may have been overused…they maybe should have been left in salons” – Kadi [03:04–03:07]
  • Issues: Overuse at home can compromise hair—causes heaviness, funky texture, even snapping: “Too much use of it snaps it eventually.” [03:51]
  • Draws parallel to protein treatment overuse.

• Nuanced Perspective:

  • “There’s a time and place…and some brands do it better than others.”
  • Praises modern innovations: “[K18 and a prey] have done a fantastic job…using newer, better technologies that are actually filling in the cuticle.” [05:17]

---

Kadi’s Accidental Path from Spelman Grad to Celebrity Colorist

[05:31 – 10:46]

• “I was always the one that would do everyone’s hair in the dorms.” [05:38]

• Couldn’t find a job post-graduation; mother prompted her to “figure it out," leading to beauty school at Aveda (“my family and friends chipped in...the story wrote itself”).

• NY beginnings at Frederic Fekkai, led to years in LA (“walked daily from Santa Monica to Beverly Hills until I could get a car”).

• “It was a mass walkout from Fekkai to Serge Normant at John Frieda. They tried to offer free services to keep clients!” [08:18–10:24]

• Industry Evolution:

  • The first major stylist-to-brand acquisition shaped the modern salon industry: “Fekkai selling to Procter & Gamble…it became corporate overnight…the first time a stylist had made such a brand with his name on it.” [10:46]

---

Early Hair Color Pitfalls & Lessons

[11:22 – 12:20]

• Kadi practiced on herself—sometimes hilariously disastrous:
  • “Pits: me showing up to my mom’s wedding as a blonde, but it was really orange. Photographic evidence does exist!” [11:37]
  • “You can always fix it. That’s the beauty of hair.”
  • Built confidence and translated her love of painting into a lucrative career.

---

Julia Roberts & Celebrity Client Tales

[12:20 – 19:01]

• Meeting Julia via Serge Normant:

  • “The first time I did [Julia’s] hair, I had to take her in her kitchen from brunette to blonde in three hours…It was out of body…I was a mute, focus mode.” [13:41–14:13]
  • “Serge called me after and said she loves it and you, but she wonders: does she speak?” [14:03]

• Julia’s Loyalty:

  • “She is as loyal as they come…whatever you think Julia is like, that is exactly what she’s like. She’s the best.” [15:38]

• Her Signature Red:

  • “My favorite is probably deep copper, some golden undertones.” [16:41]

• Other Famous Heads:

  • Brad Pitt: “He has great hair—and he’s a really, really nice person. Dreamy.” [17:53–18:02]
  • “Don’t do your hair on set—there are specialists for a reason! Had to fix Brad’s when it went a little green.” [18:15]

---

Real Talk: Home Hair Color—What to Avoid and What Actually Works

[19:01 – 22:47]

• Dark to Light: “Don’t do it at home. You’ll end up with orange undertones…Everything bad that can happen will probably happen.” [19:30]

• Light to Dark: “Safer. If you must, go a shade lighter than you think you want—hair grabs darker than you expect.”

  • Pro tip: Use shade variation masks (e.g., Christophe Robin) to keep things rich between colors.
  • “I don’t believe in spending life in the salon. Just do as much as you need.” [20:38]

• Box Dye at Home:

  • “No. No box dyes I would recommend.” [21:07]
  • The “Miracle” Box Dye Conditioner:
    • “It is a completely made up scenario…you’ve just wrecked your hair and now it’s soaking up whatever goodness you’re putting on it.” [21:37]
    • “Can we all pretend this is not a thing?”
    • “If you haven’t used a true hair mask before, of course it feels nice. But there’s nothing special in there.” [22:09]

---

Highbrow Hippie: Holistic, Wellness-First Haircare

[22:48 – 27:43]

• Origins:

  • Started as a blog, then brick & mortar salon in Venice, CA, co-founded with college friend, Micah.
  • “We wanted to almost build the anti-salon. It’s quiet, the music is soothing, never jarring. After 20 years, I couldn’t do it anymore.” [24:50]
  • Salon layout includes outdoor painting to minimize chemical inhalation—proved invaluable during the pandemic.

• Product Philosophy:

  • “Clients came back after lockdown with shedding, inflamed scalps, nervous systems shot…We surveyed them, researched their at-home habits, and it shaped what products we would develop.”

• Key Offerings:

  • Water-based scalp serum (not oil): “Oils on scalp clog it…everyone wanted help with growth without dirtying the hair.” [26:49]
  • Overall well-being supplement: “We’ve always had this inside-out approach.”

• Serum Claims:

  • “Legally, there are certain claims you can make—it adds to density, hair feels thicker, calms scalp and inflammation. Your scalp ages 6x faster than your face!” [27:54]
  • Wash your hair properly and frequently enough, especially with color-treated hair: “If you don’t keep the elasticity…you’ll have hair loss and issues with growth.” [28:38]

---

Hair Washing Wisdom & Product Pet Peeves

[29:00 – 31:36]

• Proper Technique:

  • Most people don’t clean their hair or scalp correctly—not massaging, missing hairline and ears, just letting water run over.
  • “Come with clean, washed hair. Sometimes clients…they’re not actually clean; to the sink you go!” [29:32]

• Oils:

  • “Overrated hair product? Oils.” [31:04]
  • “I don’t hate oils! It just went too far…a little goes a long way.” [31:09]
  • Sara: “That’s the name of your book: It Went Too Far.” [31:28]

---

Hair Color Trends & What to Embrace (or Leave Behind)

[31:36 – 34:32]

• End of Ashy Era:

  • “So glad the need for ashy hair is gone! Only flattering on 1% of the population. If you’re in the sun, your hair is going to have warmth—that’s what’s flattering.” [31:46–32:35]
  • Sun-In & Color Phobia: Orange undertones became feared, so people swung hard to ash—“We went too far.” [33:11]

• Purple Shampoo:

  • “There are good ones and bad ones. The right one can enhance a beautiful blonde, but mostly, put it away.” [34:17]
  • Favorite: Christophe Robin, also likes Virtue.

---

Advice for Lasting Hair Health

[35:21 – 37:43]

• The Cardinal Rule:
  • “Be loyal to one person. Don’t salon-hop. Consistency will get you beautiful hair.” [35:31]
  • “All my clients who look amazing stay with me for decades. That’s the secret.”
• If You Hate Your Color:
  • “Speak up as soon as possible—a good colorist will want to make you happy. The art of the consultation has left the building. Know your boundaries, establish what’s about to go down, and you’re probably in a safe place. If you’re unhappy, you can almost always reverse it; it’s only hair.” [36:43]

---

What Makes a Great (or Bad) Client?

[38:22 – 41:06]

• The Good:
  • “My clients let me be. I’m a bit quiet, and they give me space. We’re all a bit overstimulated—sometimes silence is just good!”
• The Bad:
  • Constant phone use in the chair (“chin up, chin up, I can’t paint at that angle!”), people uncomfortable with silence, lack of empathy or awareness.
  • “I want clients with empathy. Treat each other like human beings—awake a little bit.” [40:12]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You can always fix it. That’s the beauty of hair.” – Kadi [11:36]
• “She’s [Julia Roberts] as loyal as they come. Whatever you think Julia is like, she’s the best.” – Kadi [15:38]
• “Don’t do it [dark to light] at home. Everything bad that can happen will probably happen.” – Kadi [19:30]
• “I wanted to almost build the anti-salon.” – Kadi [24:50]
• “A little [oil] goes a long way. I like. That’s the name of your book: It Went Too Far.” – Sara & Kadi [31:28]
• “Be loyal to one person. Don’t salon-hop…Consistency will get you really beautiful hair.” – Kadi [35:31]
• “I want us all to just be awake a little bit. So that’s the client I need.” – Kadi [40:33]

---

Where to Find Kadi Lee & Highbrow Hippie

[41:24]
Website: highbrowhippie.com
On Amazon; new retail launch coming soon!

---

Key Timestamps

• 01:29: What’s in Kadi’s kit? Favorite tools/products
• 03:04 – 05:13: Bond builder controversy & Kadi’s opinion
• 05:31 – 10:46: Kadi’s career arc & industry drama
• 12:20 – 16:57: Julia Roberts stories, celebrity hair secrets
• 19:01 – 22:47: At-home hair color disasters; box dye myths
• 22:48 – 27:43: Building Highbrow Hippie; scalp & product focus
• 29:00 – 31:36: Hair washing best practices
• 31:36 – 34:32: Hair color trends & purple shampoo
• 35:21 – 37:43: Loyalty, fixing color mistakes, client relationships
• 38:22 – 41:06: What makes a bad (or good) client

---

Candid, witty, and full of practical wisdom, this episode is a goldmine for anyone serious about healthy, beautiful hair color.

Transcript

[Sleep Number Representative]

Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Can I make my site softer? Can I make my site firmer?

[Katie Lee]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Representative]

Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now during our president's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus an extra $100 off all mattresses and Saturday only at a sleep Number Store or sleepnumber.com Foreign.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Los angeles hi kirby.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Hi sarah.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Welcome to los angeles. Today we have the one and only Katie Lee. She is a Los Angeles based celebrity hair colorist and the co founder of Highbrow Hippie, the Venice salon and holistic hair care brand known for its wellness first approach to scalp and hair health. With more than 25 years in the industry, she's worked with clients like Julia Roberts, Meghan Markle, Brad Pitt and Olivia Colman and is known for creating healthy natural dimensional color that prioritizes long term hair integrity over quick fixes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Welcome to Los Angeles, Katie Lee.

[Katie Lee]

Thank you, thank you for having me.

[Interviewer Sarah]

We're going to get into your story and we want to hear all about your hair opinions.

[Katie Lee]

Okay.

[Interviewer Sarah]

And hair preferences.

[Katie Lee]

Okay.

[Interviewer Sarah]

But first I think we need to know what's in your kit. What are the products you always have on you?

[Katie Lee]

I have in my kit my favorite thing is a brush from Aveda, a paddle brush that I got in beauty school and it's like my little good luck charm. And it's still there. It's the same one, the same brush, you know, not even falling apart. Great for detangling. And I have an also Mason Pearson, which I think everybody has. As a colorist, I like to have little tips and tricks that can help me. And Christoph Robin's line has these shade variation masks that have gold and chestnut and copper and they add a little bit of punch to color. And so I always have that in case someone doesn't need a full toner but they need a little bit of like brightening. I don't use a regular hairbrush paintbrush when I do my balayage. I actually go to the paint store. So I go to Blick and I get these Japanese fan brushes that are supposed to diffuse and really use for ceramics. And that's how I get. That's like my little secret how I get my natural painting done. Fabulous.

[Interviewer Sarah]

A true artist.

[Katie Lee]

But yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Oh my God. Thanks for telling us.

[Katie Lee]

You're welcome.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Probably why you have such a unique approach to hair color as well.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I am curious. How do you feel about bond builders as a hair colorist, as you're just

[Katie Lee]

going to dove right in,

[Interviewer Kirby]

we need to know.

[Katie Lee]

I'm not a fan.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Tell me why.

[Katie Lee]

You know, I think that they may have been overused a bit and I think they maybe should have been left in salons. I think that for home use, it's too much. I have clients that have come in with hair that has been compromised because of overuse. So I think there's a time and place and I think some brands do it better than others. And I'm gonna be very diplomatic. So you're not gonna get like the shit on me.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Literal plants over a prey. Tell me, girl.

[Katie Lee]

Nope, not doing it. But I think that there's been some overuse and I'm not a fan.

[Interviewer Kirby]

So when you say compromised, what is happening to our hair when we're overusing a bond builder at home?

[Katie Lee]

So I think it weighs it down too much, the hair, you know, especially hair that's been compromised by already a chemical treatment. It's weak, it's, you know, it's delicate. And I think that too much use of it snaps it eventually. So I see a lot of that. And it also gives this. It's very weird texture. Has like a film on top and hair. What it really needs at its core is moisture. Yeah. Not a fan.

[Interviewer Sarah]

It's this similar to when people were overusing protein.

[Katie Lee]

Very similar.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And like I said, it's a fine line and some people do it better than others. And I think that there has been a little bit of a dial back and it's being done better now.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Do you think that bond builder should just be strictly for the salon? Are you okay with that or altogether? You think it's too much?

[Katie Lee]

I don't think strictly for the salon. Now that it's been changed a little bit, you know, and I think that there have been new technologies and it changes every year, you know, And I think that what's been out lately with some brands, and I'll say it, I love K18. I think they've done a fantastic job. Prey has done a fantastic job as well. So I think it's changed for the better, but I think for a while it got out of control and we are seeing the results.

[Interviewer Sarah]

You said you did like K18.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

You do like K18.

[Katie Lee]

Yes. Great product and a prey. Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

What are the differences in your opinion or why do you like them or what do you like them for?

[Katie Lee]

I mean, I think they're using newer Better technologies that are actually filling in the cuticle, you know, making a positive difference instead of just something that is completely sitting on top of the hair and weighing it down.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Okay, Katie, in an interview, you called yourself an accidental hairdresser. What does that mean and how did you fall into this career?

[Katie Lee]

I was attending Spelman College and was an English major and very much loving my life there. And I was always the one that would do everyone's hair in the dorms. So, yeah, it just was accidental because I was naturally good at it. And then after graduation, I couldn't get a job. And it was like that software session of 2000, which I'm going to date myself. Yes. I'm almost 48 years old. I was at home in Connecticut with my mom, who amazing Jamaican hard working woman that was like, this unemployment thing is not happening in my house, so figure it out. And hair was just such a natural progression of who I was. I loved to do it. And, you know, there was for some reason maybe a stigma of am I really going to go to beauty school after Spelman College? And yeah, I was. And I had some family members and dear family friends all chip in and gave me their hard earned money and allowed me to get on the train from Connecticut to New York City and attend Aveda and then know the story wrote itself. Okay.

[Interviewer Kirby]

And then I also read that you moved to la, you worked at Vi

[Katie Lee]

Frederick Fakai on Rodeo.

[Interviewer Kirby]

But I have to to include this because as an Angelino, it's a very important note. You used to walk from Santa Monica to Beverly Hills every day for your job.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. Well, first, I won't erase my New York years because they were pretty formative and pivotal and that's why I didn't mind walking. Right. You know, I worked at Fakai on the Upper east side when it was in the Chanel building. And there was a lot of walking in New York. So, like, I'm used to it.

[Interviewer Kirby]

You're a New Yorker?

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. So when I came to LA and had no money and had 15 jobs like a true immigrant, I was like, okay, I'm gonna walk to work until I can get a car. And it's not that many miles.

[Interviewer Kirby]

It was an exercise for you?

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, it was all along the Wilshire corridor. Like it wasn't a big deal. You. But I guess, like now when I say it, everyone's like, are you out of your mind? But yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

How long were you at Fakai?

[Katie Lee]

Gosh, a total of 10 years between New York and LA.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I worked at Fakai on Melrose Place.

[Katie Lee]

Oh, no way.

[Interviewer Sarah]

We're Fakai sisters in that way.

[Katie Lee]

No way. Did you cross path?

[Interviewer Kirby]

No.

[Interviewer Sarah]

No, probably not.

[Katie Lee]

I. No. Cuz you know why?

[Interviewer Sarah]

Tell me.

[Katie Lee]

I went to Serge Normont at John Frida on Melrose Place when I left Fakayo and Rodeo.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Okay.

[Katie Lee]

And then we had to be, like, across the street from Fakai, and a bunch of us, like, we were like, Persona non gratas. Is that the.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Lee]

Because we all left together. It was like a mass walkout. And then they tried to, like, offer free services to our clients to get them to stay at Fakai. And I was like, listen, I told my clients, go get your free service and I'll be right here when you're done. You want your formula, you know? And they were like, bet. Okay, cool. So that was an interesting time because they really kind of came after us. And that was then another recession of 2008. Because that was right when that was our recession. Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Graduating.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. It was like, bam, bam. That was when Obama was elected. Because I remember literally sitting there by the pool at John Frida and being like, oh, my God, like, where is everyone? It was very scary time.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Such a special time, though, for us.

[Katie Lee]

It was a special time. I. Those are my favorite years. Because obviously it's when Serge came into my life, and he is such a special human being. Serge Lamont. And really changed the trajectory of my life in many ways. Not just by introducing me to Julia and many other clients that we partner and work together with, but he was the first person to pay me equitably because I was getting paid a sheisty amount by Fakai and I did not know this. And until we left all to go to Serge's salon. And when we were negotiating, my co workers told me what they were making, and Serge matched it, and he said, there's no way that you should be making less than what they're making.

[Interviewer Sarah]

How many people left Fakai to go to Surges?

[Katie Lee]

You know that one time, I think there were seven of us. Wow. It was a pretty.

[Interviewer Kirby]

That is a fleet.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yeah, it was a fleet.

[Katie Lee]

And then more follow. Yeah. And a few went to Sergio's salon, and then a few ended up going to another salon.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Kristoff.

[Katie Lee]

No, some went to Kristoff. Yeah, so. And then some also went to Mesh. Like, they're. Yeah, it was like, walk out, walk out, walk out. So, yeah, it was massive. Which is why they were like, let's just try to offer people free hair. Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

No, no, it's okay. I don't even think it's been around time. The salons, I don't think exist. And the brand.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, the salons don't exist anymore. I think the brand does. But it's. You know, a lot happened during that time. It was when the first big acquisition happened where they sold a Proctor and Gamble. Fakai did, and it became so corporate overnight. And it was all about, like, shilling the product. And it was. But to his credit, it was the first time that a stylist had made such a brand with his name on it. That was a prestige brand. And it kind of changed the way we did business, you know, in the hair salon industry. Yeah. Wow.

[Interviewer Sarah]

If we can go back, you were practicing hair color on yourself.

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

At the beginning.

[Katie Lee]

Yes, I was.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Before you got into a salon.

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

What did you learn? What were the peaks in the pits of that experience?

[Katie Lee]

I would say the pits is probably me showing up to my mom's wedding as a blonde, but really it was orange. And photographic evidence does exist. It was so terrible. And the peaks were that you can always fix it. You know, I was everything from jet black to blonde to burgundy, you know, just the most terrible shades. And like, now I'm like dark brown. That works. You know, I just realized that it was fun, and I realized that I loved to take my love of painting and that it could translate to something like hair and then make such a lucrative career was, like, mind blowing to me. So, yeah, great things that came out of that.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Amazing. So at the THR dinner last year, you were highlighted as well as Serge for your work with Julia Roberts.

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Which is incredible.

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I'm assuming you met her through Serge.

[Katie Lee]

I did, yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Can you explain what it was like when Serge set. I'm just, like, making this up at this point, but I'm guessing Serge was like, I know a woman that would absolutely kill your hair color. And then he comes to you and says, do you want to work on Julia or how did it happen?

[Katie Lee]

It was very casual. And yeah, I almost fell over when he said it. But yeah, he's like, I want you to come do Julia's hair. And he will fight me on this till the day we're in the grave. But I know that he asked my coworker first, but because we all were such good friends, two of my co workers, actually. And what they said, no, I once wouldn't say. They said, no one was like, moving to New York and so she didn't think she was a good long term fit. And then another, you know, he was like, I'm not really sure I'm the one to, like, get up early in the mornings and, like, do, you know, house calls, like. And he was going to be making a lifestyle change as well. Now he splits his time between LA and St Bart's he's very fabulous.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Good for him.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. So they're like, katie's a perfect fit, and how generous. You know, they're still my friends to this day. Corinne and Bruno. So I did go to Julia's one morning. Serge is with me. It was out of body. Like, legit. And the first time I did her hair, I actually had to take her in her kitchen from brunette to blonde, and I had three hours to do it. I still.

[Interviewer Sarah]

You're like, do not bleach Julia Roberts

[Interviewer Kirby]

hair off her head.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. So I. I really. I was in that kitchen, and Serge was just helping in any way he could, like, being moral support. And I put my head down, and it was almost like I went to another universe because I was so focused. And for some reason, it was like something was just guiding me. And I was working really fast, and I was like, it needs a sweep of color here. It needs a little pop here. And. And when we were done and I was on my way back to my house, I got a call from Serge, and he said, she loves it so much. She loves you, but she's wondering, does she speak? Because I was so. I was like a mute. Like, I couldn't even function. I just was like, paint page. So. And he was like, yeah, she's got plenty to say. So it was actually really vivid memory in my mind. Yeah.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Lee]

I'll never forget a day.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Do you remember what that was for? What you were taking her?

[Katie Lee]

Lancome. A Lancome commercial. Wow. Yeah. Print and commercial. Yeah. And it's still one of my favorite blondes we've ever done on her. So. Yeah. And then I think we need to get rid of it, literally, like, two months later for another project.

[Interviewer Sarah]

What year Was that?

[Katie Lee]

Maybe 17 years ago was when I first. Yeah, it's a long time ago.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Wow.

[Interviewer Kirby]

You've been with her for so long.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

She stuck by you.

[Interviewer Kirby]

That's so special.

[Katie Lee]

Like, there's been no one else. She is as loyal as they come. I mean, she. Whatever you think Julia is like, that is exactly what she's like. She's the best.

[Interviewer Kirby]

I love that. Okay, so you look teary.

[Interviewer Sarah]

No, I love her.

[Interviewer Kirby]

I know that smile.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Kirby]

I mean, she could cure my number one.

[Katie Lee]

She could cure anything.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Cure anything with that Smell.

[Katie Lee]

She's amazing.

[Interviewer Kirby]

What is the scene secret to Julia Roberts hair?

[Katie Lee]

I think that hair is just special. It has an undertone that can be so many different colors. You know, obviously, she's known for her red, but she's natural dark blonde, and not many people know that. Yeah. So it can really go in so many directions, and she's always game to try something, especially if it's for a role. So I don't know. It's strong. She takes really great care of it. She has a ton of it, you know, and it's just been, like, the best canvas ever. It's been a lot of fun.

[Interviewer Sarah]

How would you describe her red?

[Katie Lee]

Ooh. I mean, we've done many iterations of her red, but my favorite is probably when it's like, a deep copper. Yeah, Deep copper red. Some golden undertones to it.

[Interviewer Kirby]

So beautiful.

[Katie Lee]

Thank you.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Has there ever been a shade she's requested that you are like, hell, no.

[Katie Lee]

Honestly, no. No.

[Interviewer Kirby]

She could pull it all off.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And we, you know, there's a spectrum, but we stick to, like, classic and pretty. First of all, I'm not known for, like, blue or green or purple or, you know, like, I'm on the classic. Classic and pretty. Yeah. So, no, we love them all, I think. I don't know. I'll check.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Like, all of your clients, like you said, they all have just beautiful hair that looks like they were born with it, whether it's red or, you know, brunette or whatever it is.

[Katie Lee]

Thank you.

[Interviewer Sarah]

When Brad Pitt sits in your chair.

[Interviewer Kirby]

No, tell me more.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I'm like, do you just stare into his eyes? No, we're not even talking about hair anymore. I'm just like, does he let you sit on his lap? Get out of your mind.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Does he have great hair?

[Katie Lee]

He has great hair.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Of course he does.

[Katie Lee]

And he's a really, really nice person.

[Interviewer Sarah]

So dreamy.

[Katie Lee]

Pretty dreamy.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I. I do want to ask about his hair, though, not just how gorgeous he is. I feel like he's gone back to light, like he's. He's embracing the Brad he that was introduced to the world all those years ago.

[Katie Lee]

You know, again, a lot depends on the project that he's working on. So sometimes, you know, he's got to buzz it off. Sometimes it's got to be lighter. I met him when it had to go darker initially, which was really fascinating because they had done it on set, which don't do your hair on set, you know, because there we are specialists for a reason, and it had gone green, which can happen when you're going darker, you know, from a natural blonde, not green, but it just gone a little funky. So we kind of corrected it. It had to be a very specific ash brown, you know, which translated well to film and looked natural.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, we want to talk about highbrow hippie, but I also think we'd be remiss not to ask some questions for the people at home because there are people at home that are coloring their hair.

[Katie Lee]

Okay.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Obviously, we're in a time where maybe people need to save money. They're not able to get to an expert and spend money to treat themselves and have a professional do it. What's the biggest mistake you see people make when they're trying to color their hair? From let's do dark to light and also light to dark.

[Katie Lee]

Okay. Dark to light you just shouldn't do at home. So, you know, that's the big mistake right there. Don't do it. It's impossible. Like, you're going to end up with orange undertones. You're going to break your hair. Everything bad that can happen will probably happen. So, yeah, that's my mistake. Don't do it. Light to dark. Probably a little safer. And, you know, who am I to say you have to go to a salon? It's not realistic for some people. I would say there are a lot of online forums. I mean, I love Reddit. Like, go ask people like, what you think. Always aim a shade lighter than you're really going for because hair will grab darker than you expect it to. I don't know, just go for it. It is only hair. If you're going from light to dark, aim lighter. It's probably going to be okay. And then grab some Christopher Bain shared shade variation mask to like, you know, keep it rich in the meantime. But, you know, even clients that come to me, I ask that they not overdo it. I don't want everyone in my chair every, you know, couple of weeks or just do as much as you need to do because it is still a chemical, even though it's gotten much more natural. And even color technologies have improved. I just don't believe in spending your life in a salon. Yeah, but if you're going to do it, come to highbrow hippie. Oh, right.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Okay. Do you think that there are any good box dyes or at home color systems that you can use or you would suggest or that you would be okay with?

[Katie Lee]

No.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, fair enough.

[Katie Lee]

How's that?

[Interviewer Kirby]

Moving on.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, moving on.

[Interviewer Sarah]

No, I don't want to move on because there is something that is trending right now. And it's people talking about the conditioner or the mask within these box colors.

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

And they are losing their minds over how great they are. And the question is, why is this tube of conditioner the best conditioner people have ever used? Do you have thoughts on this?

[Katie Lee]

I do. I think it is a completely made up scenario. Think about how much that box of color costs. There's nothing magical in that conditioner. Okay. What probably is going on is that you've just, like, wrecked your hair with some really crazy chemicals, and now it's just soaking up whatever goodness you're putting on it. Like, can we. Can we all pretend that this is not a thing?

[Interviewer Kirby]

Totally.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Kirby]

It's probably, like, a lot of people, I would assume, who haven't used, like, a hair mask, like a true hair mask, or like something really hydrating and nourishing before.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And they have to put that in there because you've literally just stripped your hair of all its goodness. So I don't know. That's my opinion. I don't really think it's a thing.

[Interviewer Sarah]

It's the bias of. Yeah, I'm using this thing and it makes my hair feel great, but my hair actually was not great before.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, that tracks.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, Fair. I had to ask. It's trending right now. It's something that's being widely discussed on TikTok, so.

[Katie Lee]

I know, but, like, don't you think that they just kind of make up subjects to have something to talk about?

[Interviewer Kirby]

Girl, literally, that is why.

[Interviewer Sarah]

That's why we have this podcast. Truly.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Yes.

[Interviewer Sarah]

We're constantly debunking stuff from TikTok, so we agree with you. That's a. That's a really good take.

[Katie Lee]

Okay, great.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Tell us about highbrow hippie. You have a wellness first scalp health approach. Is that true?

[Katie Lee]

Yes.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Okay, so when did you start thinking about hair care in this holistic way?

[Katie Lee]

Well, you know, obviously, I've always approached it from just my love of natural tones, and so I've never been one to take a really aggressive approach to hair color because I've seen the damage it can take on hair. When highbrow hippie came to be, it started as a blog, first of all, which is wild to think about. My dear friend and I, Micah, who also is a Spelman alum, we started it because it's who we are, and it described our personalities and our approach to life, and that's when, like, blogs were a thing and we loved it. We love the play on words and we thought that people would be interested in our take on all the things, whether it be politics, what we are wearing, what we are eating, our approach to beauty. Micah's really big on design and we just happened to put our heads together because she was also in the beauty space but behind the scenes as an owner. And we were like, why don't you move to la? We'll take my existing clientele and then we can open up a brick and mortar and have highbrow hippie exist in a physical form before we can then expand it in bigger ways. And it worked. You know, it took a while. We went through many hills and valleys. And that's totally for another time. But once we finally opened the doors, our approach seemed to really resonate with people because I wanted to almost build the anti salon. And it is, first of all, it's quiet in there. And the music that we do play, you're either going to have feelings of like just good memories come up. You know, it's gonna be like a throwback song, like maybe like the, I don't know, Pretty Woman soundtrack or like, you know, some 90s hip hop on R B or whatever or. But it's never going to jar your nervous system. After 20 years of dealing with that, I honestly couldn't do it anymore. I thought that I would probably have to leave the salon industry and work like only privately because I was. My nervous system was so, so shot. And then we opened finally after maybe seven years of trying to get on avid kidney. And then the pandemic happened eight months later and I was like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. But then it worked out cause like, I also built a space that had an outdoor area and that's where I painted. So we ended up being booked solid for about 46 days when we reopened after being shut down because we were like considered like a super safe salon. I really built the outside for me not to inhale chemicals. So everything just like always works out. But then when everyone came back from being shut at home, shut in at home, I started seeing all my clients, like their hair falling out and then like their scalps were a bit inflamed. And this was already at the point where we were doing some like, research on what we could do as far as products were concerned. And so we decided to put out a huge survey to all of our clients and do even more research on what are you using at home and like, what are your concerns and if, what do you think you're missing? And between what was happening in the chair, people describing that their nervous systems were shot from everything that had happened in the world. And then the results of this survey is how we landed on what products to launch.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, so tell everyone what products you ended up launching.

[Katie Lee]

The first two were a scalp serum, water based, which is important because everyone's complaint was that everything was oil based. And my, you know, hot take is that like, I don't like oils on the scalp. Like, I think it clogs it. Overuse of it at least. So our clients were like, I want a scalp serum that's going to help my hair grow, but I don't want to get my hair dirty. I want my blowout to last. And so we figured out a formula. I mean, took us years and but the best chemists, we figured it out and really proud to say that it's won so many awards that, you know, and it works, like if you stick to it, it works. And then we came out with an overall well being supplement. So we always have like done this inside out approach. And that was in direct, you know, direct answer to what people was asking for.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I want to ask about the serum. What claims does the serum make? Is it that it's just going to calm your scalp and help with inflammation? Is it going to help with hair growth?

[Katie Lee]

Yes, legally speaking, you. There are certain claims that you can and cannot make. So there's certain words that you can say and you cannot say. So it does add to the density of your hair. So your hair is going to feel thicker. So do without what you will. Yes, it will make your hair grow and it really calms your scalp, calms the inflammation. Because I don't know if you guys know this, everyone should. Your scalp ages way faster than the rest of your skin, like six times faster. Yeah, it's, it's a big deal. So as you're getting older, you know, be very depressed to know that your scalp is even older than you, like

[Interviewer Sarah]

your dog ears, your scalp like a wrinkled mess.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Oh my God.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, but so if you don't keep the elasticity, if you don't make the environment like a nice clean one so that things can actually grow out of it, you're going to have some hair shedding and some hair loss and some issues with your hair growth.

[Interviewer Sarah]

That's why Chris said to wash your hair three or four times. Chris McMillan.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. Yeah, he's correct.

[Interviewer Sarah]

People are not washing their hair properly, dude.

[Katie Lee]

And they also don't wash it well. Like they're not, they don't know how to wash their Hair.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Yeah.

[Katie Lee]

I have this thing where, you know, for balayage especially, I don't like too much oil buildup on the hair because it prevents me from lifting it correctly if it's like another layer that the bleach has to fight through. And so we're like, okay, come with clean, you know, washed hair. And sometimes people's interpretation of that, I'm like, what's this? What's going on?

[Interviewer Kirby]

You didn't watch your hair?

[Interviewer Sarah]

To the thing.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Yeah.

[Katie Lee]

Literally, to the sink you go. Because I also don't want to waste half of their appointment time cleaning their hair. And it's like, do you want the best result or not? So Chris is absolutely, absolutely right.

[Interviewer Sarah]

People's hair not very clean video is going viral. Yeah. Because people are saying, oh, I didn't realize I was supposed to be. I think that we.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Back here.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

It's like, back here, but maybe it's

[Katie Lee]

also like, I don't know, maybe their arms are like. I don't know.

[Interviewer Kirby]

I think people are, like, rushing the shower.

[Interviewer Sarah]

The general person, they take their shampoo, they put it in their hand, they plop it on their head. They do this, and then they kind of do this, and then they just let the water dump on top. They're not flipping their hair over and really getting underneath and massaging. There's no scalp massage. That's why everybody loves going to the salon, because they actually get the proper cleaning that they need with the massage and all that. But they're not doing their hairline.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And they're definitely not doing here, like, by the ears.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yes.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, you're totally right.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Do you guys make a shampoo?

[Katie Lee]

We might have something coming.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Okay.

[Katie Lee]

I literally have, by the way, at all times, like, 10 different, like, lab samples in my bag at all times. Yes. We have something special coming that. It's really hard to differentiate yourself. There's so much out there, and my take has always been, how can I make your color look better, brighter, take care of your scalp. So just do without what you will. We have something really, really special coming in September.

[Interviewer Sarah]

What's an overrated hair product?

[Katie Lee]

Oils. Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

You hate oils.

[Katie Lee]

No, I totally don't hate oils, by the way.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Not on the scalp.

[Katie Lee]

No. Because even as a little girl, like, the one thing you did was you sat between your mother or auntie's lap and you got your scalp oiled. I just think that it went too far, so, you know, a little goes a long way. I like.

[Interviewer Sarah]

That's the name of your book. It went too far. It went too far, perhaps. I absolutely love it.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Can we talk about like hair color trends that are happening right now and maybe any that you're seeing that you are a fan of or that you're not so much a fan of?

[Katie Lee]

Well, I think one that I love that has gone away is everyone's need to have ashy hair. I mean, if one person came in, another person came in want like with a photo of honestly, like a 17 year old child who had never colored their hair with this like ashy wheat, you know, hair next to their face. I'm like, that is only flattering on like 1% of the population. So can we let it go? You know, like if you are in the sun, your hair is naturally going to have warmth to it and that's what's flattering. Especially if you're spending time inside and like your skin may get a little sallow warmth, like embrace the warmth. And I think people have really, finally gotten that memoir. So I'm, I'm stoked on that because

[Interviewer Kirby]

there were so many years of ashy, ashy, everything cool, blonde.

[Interviewer Sarah]

The cool, if anything was warm. People were freaking out.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I do think sun in contributed highly to this because we had sun in. We had that spritz. You could. John Frieda made one.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Put it on your hair, go in the sun, your hair turns orange. And I think the fear of the orange. Orange is total.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Right. I feel like that's where it truly stemmed from because then everyone was like, no, we must be cool. Yeah, I don't want to see any more.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, no.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Anytime I, like in high school, college, when I would try to get highlights, if it showed just the least bit of orange, which it did, because I've your undertones.

[Katie Lee]

Everybody has like warm undertones.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I would just get so sad and

[Interviewer Kirby]

then go the opposite direction and try to be ashy. And it never looked good anyways.

[Katie Lee]

No. Because you know what you have to do to get it ashy? You've got to strip it so much, basically devoid of any tone left. Then you're depositing the ash on top. And then you know what happens to toners? They go away. So then you're left with this like overly bleached hair. It looked almost gray at one point. People would come in and then when you try to color correct it, it would take layers and layers of glossing to get it to even stick and it would lose all elasticity and, you know, moisture. And so it became a nightmare for colorists. I mean, when that stopped, I was like, Fucking Luya. Like, okay, finally.

[Interviewer Kirby]

I mean, how much money did we spend on, like, purple shampoo?

[Katie Lee]

Oh, God, don't even say that.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Yes. You're not a fan of purple shampoo.

[Katie Lee]

You know, they're good ones and they're bad ones. And I think the right ones really enhance a beautiful, like. Like buttery baby blonde. But no, not a fan. Like, put it away.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Too much.

[Katie Lee]

Too much. We went too far. It went too far.

[Interviewer Sarah]

But what if your hair is. Because we have. We can't deny the fact, like, yeah, LA has terrible water.

[Katie Lee]

It does, right? It absolutely does.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I have a water filter for that reason.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Same.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Sarah, I'm sure you do as well. But what can we do without the purple shampoo? I personally think virtue makes a great purple shampoo because it's not straight purple.

[Katie Lee]

Second best. Favorite one.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, first.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, the first one is the Kristoff. Okay. Yeah. We use both of those in our back bar.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Most purple shampoos are thick, chalky paint. Like purple slime. Yes.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, yeah. I think her shoes has that, like, nice translucent. Yeah, yeah, yes. It's great. It's a great shampoo.

[Interviewer Sarah]

I've been using that one and I adir obviously knows what he's doing, so. Yeah, we love that. Katie. Okay, we don't have that much time left with you.

[Katie Lee]

Okay.

[Interviewer Sarah]

We've blown through this, but I've. We've been loving this conversation. What's one thing that people should do in practice to keep their hair healthy on a regular basis?

[Katie Lee]

From a colorist point of view, I will say be loyal to one person and don't salon hop, because you're always going to get different perspectives and different approaches and then you're just layering approaches and you're not letting one person see. Settle in and really get your hair to its healthiest place. So that I would say that's like, my biggest thing. And then honestly, I think there's so much information out there. I'd say find your, like, favorite person that speaks to you, that's speaking your language, and, like, DM them, ask them questions, like, we welcome them. We're. We're really into education, like, especially, you know, anything scalp care. And I feel like there's so much info. Use it, utilize it. But my biggest would be find your people. Stay with them. Everyone always wonders, like, gosh, like, why does Julia look so great all the time? Or why does, like, Gwyneth looks so great all the time? And it's like, they don't move around. They're loyal and so they get Consistency. And consistency will get you really beautiful hair.

[Interviewer Kirby]

This has happened to me many times.

[Katie Lee]

Times.

[Interviewer Kirby]

What if you go to the salon, get a color, and you hate it?

[Katie Lee]

Good question.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Or you're in the chair and you're like, I don't. I just. I know this isn't gonna be what I want.

[Katie Lee]

I think you have to speak up, like, in the moment, as soon as possible. And the. A good colorist is going to be open to that. Like, I won't feel great unless someone is leaving really pleased. I also won't start anything that I know I can't accomplish. So I think the art of the consultation has, like, left the building. What's. What's happening, you know, like, talk to each other. But I also think knowing boundaries, really establishing what's about to go down, and then you're kind of in a safe place. I stopped taking new clients a long time ago. It really has to be a direct referral just because of, like, time constraints. But I got an email recently of someone who said, I'm almost 70 and I've only had one colorist ever get it right. And I was like. Like, you know, I was like, no, thanks. You know, I am not trying to be number two, 100.

[Sleep Number Representative]

Yeah.

[Katie Lee]

I was like, red flag, red flag. So, like, no, I think, again, realistic expectations. And so if you have them at the beginning, you're probably going to have a good result at the end. But if you don't get that result, speak up. You can always reverse things. It's only hair color. There's so many ways that you can fix it.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Okay, I have one last question.

[Katie Lee]

Katie Lee Kirby.

[Interviewer Sarah]

What makes somebody a bad client? What not to do as a client, according to Katie Lee.

[Katie Lee]

Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't know how much time. We don't have much time. Okay. I. First of all, my clients are truly the best. And I'm not talking about, like, the ones that everyone knows, like, the ones that have been with me for 25 years, and there are many, dozens of them. And what makes them great is that I'm going to start with the positive so that you could be like a little sandwich. So what makes them great is that we all take each other for what we are. And so, believe it or not, when I'm working, I'm actually a bit quiet, a bit of an introvert, and my clients let that be. I don't think there's a need to fill the silence sometimes. My clients, they're all working women. They need a little bit of peace, as do I. And so we just. We have our little catch up. It's literally a minute long. And then I get to work and they get to work. We are so overly stimulated that sometimes people feel that there's something wrong with silence. And I think we could all use a little bit more of it. So that being said, the ones who are completely uncomfortable with silence and just like, will not. And then, oh, my gosh, the phones, the phones. Like, I can't work with your head, like, down like this. I cannot. Like, I'm always like, chin up, chin up. And sometimes I'll just be like, dip, dip. You know, it's actually an angle that I literally can't paint at. Like, it's uncomfortable. So I think this addiction to the phones and if you ask them once or twice or three times and they're completely ignoring you, that's not really the client for me because, like, I'm just trying to get through this as much as you are. And I think that personally, I like a client who has empathy for what's going on around them. I have had many situations, especially of late, because we all know the world a little bit. Batch it right now where clients will come in and, you know, I am a black immigrant woman, and they will literally be like, what's going on? How's your day? And like, I don't know, someone just got, like, shot in the face, like in Minnesota. Like, I'll be like, can we all just actually treat each other like human beings? You know, talk about the elephant in the room, have some empathy and proceed like human beings? Like, that's all I ask for. And so it's something I now require. I just think I'm at the age where I want us all to just be awake a little bit. So that's the client I need. And I think I'm at this stage in my career to ask for that.

[Interviewer Sarah]

This was such a fun conversation. Thank you for coming. Yeah, we learned so much and we love your. Your personality and your take on beauty and your point of view. Thanks for coming and hanging out with us today and taking time away from the salon.

[Katie Lee]

Thank you. Thank you very much. This was fun. One more question.

[Interviewer Kirby]

Where can we find highbrow hippie?

[Katie Lee]

Oh, @highbrow hippie.com. we're also on Amazon and soon to launch in a very special retailer. I know there's so many good things coming up for 26. I'm excited.

[Sleep Number Representative]

Why choose a sleep number? Smart bed.

[Interviewer Sarah]

Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer?

[Sleep Number Representative]

Can we Sleep cooler Sleep Number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. And now now during our President's day sale, take 50% off our limited edition bed plus an extra $100 off all mattresses. End Saturday only at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com.