The Long Storied History of Lashify's Drama

Summary

Gloss Angeles: The Long Storied History of Lashify's Drama

Episode Release Date: March 11, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan

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Introduction

In this episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan delve into a multifaceted discussion that begins with somber news in the beauty industry before transitioning into a heated analysis of the ongoing drama surrounding Lashify, a prominent at-home lash extension system. This summary captures the key points, insights, and conclusions drawn by Kirbie and Sara throughout the episode.

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In Memoriam: Graham Nation and Jesus Guerrero (00:41 - 07:19)

The episode opens with the hosts expressing their heartfelt condolences over the recent passing of two esteemed hairstylists, Graham Nation and Jesus Guerrero. Both individuals were beloved figures in the beauty community, and their sudden deaths have left a significant impact.

• Kirbie Johnson (00:42): "We felt it was important to discuss this because these are two beloved hairstylists that Sarah and I both have either had personal relationships with or have met in passing."

Graham Nation passed away on February 14th at the age of 39, leaving behind his wife, Tanya Brewer, a celebrity makeup artist, and their six-month-old son. His career was on a notable ascent, highlighted by his work in a Super Bowl commercial alongside Catherine O'Hara and collaborations with high-profile clients like Demi Moore and Emma Chamberlain.

• Sara Tan (03:58): "Jesus was known for doing JLo's hair. And most notably, Kylie... Every single person that has posted about either of them has just said that they were kind and loving."

Jesus Guerrero passed on February 22nd at the age of 34 while in Dubai, under circumstances that remain partially unclear. His close work with celebrities such as Kylie Jenner and his reputation as a bright light in the industry underscore the magnitude of his loss.

The hosts also mention the establishment of GoFundMe pages for both Graham and Jesus, aiming to support their families during this difficult time.

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Transition to Lashify Drama (07:19 - 30:24)

Shifting from the somber remembrance, Kirbie and Sara pivot to what they describe as "petty yet juicy Instagram drama" involving Bethenny Frankel and Lashify. This segment examines the contentious interactions between Frankel, a reality TV star and beauty influencer, and Lashify, a company renowned for its patented at-home lash extension system.

Bethenny Frankel vs. Lashify (07:37 - 12:16)

The drama began when Bethenny Frankel publicly criticized Lashify for what she perceived as deceptive practices. Lashify's founder, Sahara Lottie, responded aggressively, asserting legal action against Frankel for promoting counterfeit lashes.

• Kirbie Johnson (07:41): "She did not mince words."
• Sara Tan (08:21): "She's now mostly known for these totally unhinged TikTok beauty reviews."

Kirbie highlights Sahara Lottie's extensive patent portfolio—600 patents related to Lashify's unique underlash system and at-home extensions—and contrasts this with other beauty brands like Charlotte Tilbury and Beautyblender, which do not hold similar patents.

• Kirbie Johnson (12:16): "Sahara Lottie has a PAT, has 600 patents on Lashify itself."

Historical Context of Lashify's Legal Actions (12:16 - 21:59)

The hosts provide a comprehensive overview of Lashify's history of litigating against competitors and consumers alike. Notably, Lashify won a lawsuit against Kingdao Lash Beauty Cosmetic Company, securing $34 million for patent infringements. This case sets a precedent for Lashify's aggressive legal stance to protect its intellectual property.

• Sara Tan (16:57): "This is a pattern, okay? This is a pattern for her. This isn't like a one off, a two off."

Kirbie recounts previous incidents where Lashify's founder targeted beauty influencers who used or reviewed the product, often leading to public disputes. One such case involved Manny Gutierrez (Manny MUA), who faced backlash after expressing dissatisfaction with Lashify's product in 2018.

• Kirbie Johnson (23:27): "So she posted this story, being like, thanks for the entertainment, Manny Mua. How about you actually use the product properly?"

Community and Influencer Reactions (21:59 - 26:00)

The beauty community has been vocal in their criticism of Lashify's approach, particularly regarding privacy concerns and the targeting of consumers who simply wish to use or review the product. Influencers and users alike have expressed frustration over Sahara Lottie's direct messages and legal threats.

• Sara Tan (21:59): "But threatening legal action for even to the consumer. It's so bizarre."

Kirbie emphasizes the impracticality and aggression of Lashify's tactics, questioning how consumers can navigate product usage without falling foul of patent laws—a concern not typically associated with other beauty products.

• Kirbie Johnson (19:00): "Am I expected to know that there is a patent on this water bottle that I'm drinking out of?"

Current Standings and Future Outlook (26:00 - 30:24)

Despite the backlash, Lashify continues to defend its practices, though Kirbie and Sara suggest that the company's approach may be detrimental to its reputation and customer relations. They propose that Sahara Lottie could benefit from focusing on legal battles against larger corporations infringing on her patents rather than targeting individual consumers and influencers.

• Kirbie Johnson (27:03): "I think she should continue on her crusade against these large companies that have purposefully taken her patented IP and are profiting off of it."

The hosts invite patent law experts to provide further insights and extend an open invitation to Sahara Lottie to discuss these issues on their podcast, expressing a desire to understand the founder's motivations and strategies.

• Kirbie Johnson (29:16): "Truly, this is an open invitation. Come on the podcast, let's talk about it."

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Hosts’ Perspectives and Concluding Thoughts (30:24 - End)

Kirbie and Sara conclude the episode by reflecting on the complexities of brand management, legal protections, and community engagement within the beauty industry. They acknowledge Sahara Lottie's passion for protecting her brand but critique the methods employed against consumers and smaller influencers.

• Sara Tan (28:34): "Her PR team deserves a Margarita IV after this week because they deserve it."

The hosts reiterate their support for the communities affected by these disputes and emphasize the importance of balancing intellectual property rights with fair and respectful consumer relationships.

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Key Takeaways

1. Tragic Losses: The beauty industry mourns the loss of two talented hairstylists, Graham Nation and Jesus Guerrero, whose contributions and relationships left indelible marks.

2. Lashify’s Legal Aggression: Lashify, under founder Sahara Lottie, has aggressively pursued legal action to protect its extensive patent portfolio, leading to conflicts with influencers and consumers.

3. Community Backlash: The beauty community criticizes Lashify's approach as overreaching and damaging to the brand’s reputation, advocating for more balanced strategies.

4. Industry Insights: The episode underscores the challenges brands face in safeguarding intellectual property while maintaining positive consumer relations in a competitive market.

5. Open Dialogue: Kirbie and Sara invite further discussion and expert opinions to explore the broader implications of Lashify's legal strategies within the beauty industry.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kirbie Johnson (02:00): "He has just the sweetest heart. And he's so gentle."
• Sara Tan (03:58): "Jesus was known for doing JLo's hair. And most notably Kylie..."
• Kirbie Johnson (07:37): "Did you see the video where Bethenny Frankel called out Lashify?"
• Sara Tan (15:43): "I have two comments."
• Kirbie Johnson (19:40): "And Lashify is expensive. Okay. Right now, I think the starter kit is $150."
• Kirbie Johnson (27:13): "Do it. And obviously you're entitled to compensation and whatever the hell else you want."
• Sara Tan (28:34): "Her PR team deserves a Margarita IV after this week because they deserve it."
• Kirbie Johnson (30:01): "We want to hear you talk to Kirby and Sara. I would personally."

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Gloss Angeles continues to provide in-depth analysis and candid discussions on the intersection of beauty, culture, and the entertainment industry. This episode offers listeners a comprehensive look into internal conflicts that shape brand reputations and community trust.

Transcript

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[Kirby]

Glam Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

Hi, Kirby.

[Kirby]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. All right, we're going to kick off this episode with some somber news. You probably have seen this online, but we felt it was important to discuss this because these are two beloved hairstylists that Sarah and I both have either had personal relationships with or have met in passing or at least are aware of their work. Graham Nation and Jesus Guerrero passed away in February. Graham passed away on February 14th. And it's been reported that Jesus was confirmed dead on February 22nd. When this happened, it was so. It was in such a short amount of time that it was almost just unbelievable. Unbelievable that it had happened. Graham was an amazing person. And hairstylist Graham I met through sexy hair. Sexy hair, yeah.

[Sarah]

Cause he's one of their ambassadors.

[Kirby]

Yes. And I remember I met him with Clay at Crane Salon. You were there too? Yeah, he did my hair. He was so sweet. He's so cool.

[Sarah]

So cool.

[Kirby]

He has these sleeves and he always has this jewelry on and beautiful eyes.

[Sarah]

Just a very calming aura about him as well.

[Kirby]

So you're a little intimidated cause he looks so cool. But then he has just the sweetest heart. And he's so gentle. One thing I kept seeing when people were talking about him was how gentle and kind and loving he was. And the last time I saw Graham was actually at a Dyson event last year when they launched the Neural. He was just so lovely. He was 39 when he passed and his wife, Tanya Brewer, is a celebrity makeup artist and they have a six month old boy, which makes this even more devastating to have to report. I was in shock. One of my good friends, Katrina Klein, another celebrity makeup artist, we were supposed to go to brunch on Sunday after Valentine's and she just said, one of my friends passed away. I am not going to be able to make it. And I was like, I'm so sorry. And then you actually sent me a DM on Monday, the following Monday. And I said, I was like, what? It was Graham Yeah. So what we have learned is that he had apparently passed out or fell over at a gym. This is from People magazine. It says, according to the LA County Department of Medical exam of the medical examiner, he died at a gym in Los angeles on the 14th. And the case is pending an additional investigation. Graham had just had, like, a major milestone in his career. He did his first ever super bowl commercial where he worked with Catherine O'Hara. He has worked with clients like Demi Moore, Alex Earle, Jared Leto, Simone Ashley, Venus Williams, Emma Chamberlain. The list goes on and on and on. He was also a part of the Faki Collective. It was announced last summer.

[Sarah]

And I mean, just an incredibly talented and talented hairstylist. And I feel like his career was like, just. I mean, obviously has accomplished so much, but like, was just sort of taking off.

[Kirby]

Exactly. So upsetting and so sad. We're gonna link the gofundme for GR in our show notes so that if you feel so inclined, you can contribute. Sarah and I both have. Tonya is now going to have to navigate this along with her child, and we just want to be able to give her and their baby as much support as we can. And we are thinking of Graham.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And we will miss you. We also want to acknowledge that Jesus Guerrero has also passed away. Like I mentioned, it was confirmed that he passed away on February 22. He was 34 years old. We don't have that much information regarding what exactly happened. All we have heard and read is reports that state that he did not look well. He was in Dubai, they had instructed him to seek medical treatment. And he got on a plane, flew back to la and I think was at the hospital.

[Sarah]

That's what I heard.

[Kirby]

Okay. And he passed away. Jesus is known for doing JLo's hair. And most notably Kylie, who was very, very close with him, she posted a few days afterwards. And one thing I just wanna say is I really don't like the conversation around how quickly a celebrity needs to acknowledge the death of someone that is close to them. This person was with Kylie all the time. Yeah, it was Ariel and Jesus with Kylie. So I know so many people that loved him. Ash K. Holm, celebrity makeup artist, one of his closest to LA together, essentially from Houston. And she wrote this really beautiful post about how they both supported each other. She got the opportunity to do Chloe and then suggested Jesus and they were both able to help each other. They both worked on the legal leachy together. I can't imagine the pain that she and her husband are going through with this, let alone his family. Just two very young, very successful bright lights in the industry. Every single person that has posted about either of them has just said that they were kind and loving.

[Sarah]

A bright light in every room.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And they would always want to be around them. So we also have a GoFundMe for Jesus. In case anybody's wondering, Kylie is going to pay for the funeral. However, there are a lot of things that come along with death that need to be taken care of. And so if you feel so inclined, we will have Jesus GoFundMe as well, so that, you know, the burden of. The financial burden of a death does not take over the emotional and the grief of it all. Like, the family should be grieving, not worrying about, you know, how they're gonna take care of the belongings and all of those things. So we just wanted to send our love and condolences to anybody that knew and loved Jesus or Graham.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay, we're gonna take a hard left turn here. We're gonna take a hard left turn because we have some news. And this is what I like to call petty yet juicy Instagram drama.

[Sarah]

Oh, I was living for this. I was living for this.

[Kirby]

So, Sarah, did you see the video where Bethenny Frankel called out Lashify?

[Sarah]

Yes. She was not. She didn't mince words.

[Kirby]

She did not.

[Sarah]

She took to her Instagram stories to set the record straight.

[Kirby]

Correct. Well, then first did it. But, like, she was not exactly. She did not mince words.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So if you are like, I have a job. I'm employed. What are you talking about?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Bethenny Frankel of Real Housewives fame, she created the Skinny Girl empire and sold that for like, a billion. Not a billion, but, like, a lot of money.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

She's now mostly known for these totally unhinged TikTok beauty reviews.

[Sarah]

Yeah. She also has a podcast, right?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

I can't figure out if I blocked her on TikTok or she blocked me.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh. Why would she block you?

[Kirby]

I have been critical of her.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I have been critical of her.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

In that I don't necessarily think some of her reviews are as, like, authentic as she claims they are, but I'm not blocked on Instagram, so I was able to see this video. Okay. And before we get into the. The nitty gritty of this, because there are so many facets to this situation that I don't think people realize.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

They just see drama between Bethany and this Lash brand. They don't know all the intricacies exactly. Of, like, why this is even A little bit more salacious than you might think.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

What happened was she says that she's just getting into lashes. Like she's not a lash girl. So she's just getting into it. She pulls out a pair someone sent her, someone had sent her. She tries them, she gets DMs from Lashify. And we've talked about Lashify on this podcast before. Other people, I think, have recommended them on this podcast, but it's an at home extension system and it was the first of its kind when it launched in 2018. So Bethany uses a dupe, a ripoff, a whatever you want to call it, of Lashify. And the founder of Lashify reaches out to Bethany and says, we are in a massive lawsuit with Pro Lash, the alleged brand, for infringing on all of our patents. You have way too big of a platform and therefore have unfortunately involved yourself in our litigation. Honestly, the fact that you're pushing counterfeits after Lashify has won multiple lawsuits against these counterfeits is horrifying.

[Sarah]

Wait, how did you find out what the message was?

[Kirby]

Because Sahara Lottie, the founder of Lashify, posted this.

[Sarah]

Oh, no, I didn't know that.

[Kirby]

On her Instagram before promptly deleting it. But not before I got screenshots. Okay, okay. So then that's what set off the Bethany Kraken.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Where she said, do not come for me. Do not go fuck yourself.

[Sarah]

Yeah, this is a you problem.

[Kirby]

Do not come for me. How would I know any of this? Yeah, this is free enterprise. I am allowed to try whatever I want.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

And also I thought it was hilarious because she was like, you don't see Charlotte Tilbury and beautyblender crying about people ripping them off or Apple. It's like, this is commerce. This is free enterprise. This is what happens. She's not correct in that because Charlotte Tilbury just launched an entire campaign around Dupes, Dupes, saying that she's the original and that this is her legacy. There's news stories about this. So she may not be DMing people about them using the fake Hollywood filter, but she's definitely putting it out there that, like, I'm being ripped off. Same with Rayan Silva, a beauty blender story last year about how literally retailers that she's in are ripping off her her own product to sell at a cheaper price.

[Sarah]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean, this is different.

[Kirby]

This is different.

[Sarah]

This is really like Kirby was saying, there are, like, specificities to Lashify and the patents that they own. That makes this a lot different than the Charlotte Tilbury and The beautyblender conversation.

[Kirby]

Correct. Because Milk can be duped by Elf.

[Sarah]

With their primer jelly blush, whatever it is.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

But it's makeup, right?

[Kirby]

Yes. It's not. They don't have patents on that.

[Sarah]

Exactly.

[Kirby]

Sahara Lottie has a PAT, has 600 patents on Lashify itself.

[Sarah]

It's the underlash system.

[Kirby]

It's the underlash, but it's also the fact that it's at home extensions.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Okay. And she patented every facet of that. I also want to make very clear that Sahara Lottie did not create under lashes. Like, not meaning that she didn't create the product, but she didn't create the technique.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Ask any makeup artist in the 90s. They were figuring out how to do that without probably the best product to be able to do that.

[Sarah]

Right. But she created this system.

[Kirby]

She created this system that essentially marketed this technique and also created a product that really looks the most natural when you put it on. The band is super thin. The quality of the lash is amazing. The glue is fine, in my opinion. I like other glues. And she has a specific tweezer.

[Sarah]

Yep. Like a clamp. Yeah, yeah. She has a specific. I actually like the glue, the Lashify glue.

[Kirby]

For me, I feel that other glues hold up better and. And aren't as sticky. But the point is, is that lashpad is supposed to be an at home extension system, so it's supposed to last longer than like your traditional, you know, one and done. Whatever. Okay. So Sahara Lottie did post an apology eventually to Bethany. As of this filming is still up. And if you read the apology, it really is like she's Rocky fighting for her life in the ring. They want to take me down, they hate me. They want to take away something that I'm legally protected by. Do you think there are people that don't understand why she's going so hard against all these other brands? Because plenty of comments are like, she didn't invent fake lashes, so what's the big deal? It's not the fake lash.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

She has patents that are legally protected. And if any brand wants to work knock her off in any way legally, they should have to work with her or pay her a licensing fee. That is the right thing to do. So I don't fault her for being pissed at brands like Kiss or Lilly Lashes or whatever for coming up and selling cheaper options.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

Because she's legally protected in that way. Like, why have a patent if you can just do whatever the hell you want?

[Sarah]

Exactly.

[Kirby]

In her apology to Bethany, she does say, I'm so sorry for how I approached you. My intention wasn't to be threatening. I really have nothing but respect for you and any woman that is strong, smart, and willing to fight for what's theirs. When she initially had posted the screenshot of what she had sent to Bethany, she had said, I didn't see this as a threat. And I have to ask you, what did you think it was gonna be? Because you have unfortunately involved yourself in our litigation. That sounds like a threat. That sounds like a big guy who is used to going after maybe way smaller of people than Bethenny Frankel to say, you have to stop posting about this brand because they are infringing on my patent.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And honestly, what she should have done. Well, I have two comments.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

She should have forwarded it to her legal team and been like, can you please deal with this instead of, you know, commenting out of emotion directly to Bethany Frankel. And two, that apology was not written by her. It was probably written, I think, by her PR team or someone who was like, we need to fix this. That's my personal opinion.

[Kirby]

I would agree with you. But if you read the entire apology.

[Sarah]

Is it really long?

[Kirby]

It is so long. It is very self aggrandizing.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

It feels like.

[Sarah]

So maybe she wrote a draft and then they added this Bethany thing.

[Kirby]

I don't want to speak out of turn, but yes, that could very well be the situation. Last year, Lashify did win a lawsuit where they sued another brand for duping them. They won their case against this Chinese Lash competitor, Kingdao lash Beauty Cosmetic Company, for violating three of their patents and awarded Lashify $34 million. This is a groundbreaking case. And also it could be something not only to be used as ammunition for Lashify against their competitors in the future, or the suits that they've already filed, but also just in patent law cases in general. And if we have any patent law attorneys, lawyers, whatever, listening, please send us an email or a voice note or a dm. We would love to hear your perspective on this. Okay, so here's my whole thing. Lottie is nothing if not passionate. And I get it. Okay. But like, to a fault.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Because now this is literally what she is known for.

[Kirby]

She is known. And this is. This is. So I wrote a substack about this outlining the timeline. This is a. She has a history of doing this. Okay? She unfortunately fucked with the wrong person with Bethenny Frankel because Bethenny Frankel said, literally, kiss my ass. I will send you five class action attorneys should you Wish. But in the past, she has gone after people not only for disparaging the brand and saying they don't like it, but for recommending other brands at all. In 2020, she went after a beauty influencer by the name of Brittany Vassar. She got in on a video in 2020, Britney did. And she had been using Lashify on her own accord. Bought it, loved it, using it for eight months. She posted a video using the system. She gets a DM from Sahara and she's thinking, oh, this is going to be super friendly because I've been supporting the brand. Maybe they want to work together. And Sahara basically is like, you are in violation of our patent. What is your lawyer's information? Because in the video, Vassar was doing her lashes with Lashify and just said, if you don't have these tweezers, you can buy a cheaper option on Amazon. This person was literally supporting your mother Lash brand. I actually invite you, Please come on this podcast. I would love to pick your brain about why you're doing this, because I have to. How the is a consumer supposed to know about the patents you have and what patents are being violated? We are consumers in a capitalistic society.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

Am I expected to know that there is a patent on this water bottle that I'm drinking out? Like, I'm not going to the United States Patent and Trademark Office website to see Lashify has 600 patents in which this lash that I bought for $8 at CVS is infringing upon.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Is Tim Cook of Apple knocking on our doors because we bought a charger from Amazon and not directly from Apple or a phone case or whatever.

[Kirby]

No. Because they're bigger fish to fry.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

She takes this. So which I do understand because this is her baby.

[Sarah]

Yep. But like something like that where this person is already supporting the brand and then just simply mentions not even the lash. It's just tulle, a tool, a tweezer.

[Kirby]

Like she's still. But threatening legal action for. Even to the consumer. Yeah.

[Sarah]

It's so bizarre.

[Kirby]

That's not her problem.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

That is not her problem.

[Sarah]

Right, Right. And she would not win that case.

[Kirby]

And Lashify is expensive. Okay. Right now, I think the starter kit is $150. It's increased over the years due to inflation. This is a luxury elevated at home lash extension experience. I would argue that maybe there's a barrier to entry there because people are like, I don't understand the underlash and I don't know how to use it and I don't want to Pay this much money to get started on something that I may never use again.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

By having some of these cheaper alternatives, you may be opening up the door to more success for your own brand. Because then people are like, oh, okay, this was great. But, like, these look a lot better. These look a lot more sophisticated.

[Sarah]

Totally. And I actually feel that way because I have used a lot of the competitors before, and I always go back to my Lashify lashes because I think they are the best. They're the lightest, they look the most natural, they fit my eye the best. I truly think it is the best system, but I'm still trying other things.

[Kirby]

I agree. I do think that the lashes are the best. Like I said, not a big fan of the Lashify glue. And I also. I don't like the way that the lashes come in the little circles. I feel like they're very hard to get back on there, and I feel like there's more opportunity for them to be destroyed.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I've ripped them before, for sure.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I am inviting you, Sahara Lottie, truly out of interest and the kindness of my heart. I need to understand why you're going after consumers. I need to know this. It does not make any sense. And I have to think that maybe there's something I'm missing. Is there something that I'm missing where, like, if she doesn't go after people for using these dupes, then she can't litigate against the brands or she can't litigate?

[Sarah]

No, I think it's just that, like you mentioned, this is her baby, and she just feels like people are personally attacking her as consumers. But how do you have the time? How much money has she spent on a team of lawyers?

[Kirby]

Also $50 million in four years litigating against these patent issues. I just want to say this is a pattern, okay? This is a pattern for her. This isn't like a one off, a two off. This is a pattern for her. When this all happened with Bethany, you go to TikTok, you go to Instagram, anywhere that has comments, you can read the comments. I love Lashify. The founder has put me off that I do not buy the products because of her. The Facebook group is a mess.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

Bunch of mean girls go to their glass door. I dare you to go to their glass door and read the employer reviews. Devastating. It's not a good business practice to have such a problematic founder in this aspect. Yeah, it actually kind of blew up in her face prior to all of this in what I like to call the original lash gate. Which involves Manny Gutierrez of Manny mua fame. In 2018, he bought Lashify. At the time, I think it was $125. And he bought it because it was the most expensive lash on the market, you know? And at that time, beauty influencers were always wearing this crazy lash.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

So it was a very big part of your beauty routine.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

He buys it himself. I rewatched the video because I was like, oh, it's baby Mani. And I was like, just wanting to see. And I remember. And he's obviously grown.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And he has said since Live and Learn, like, I did use some parts of it incorrectly. Whatever.

[Sarah]

Like, we all do. We're all just living and learning.

[Kirby]

But he initially goes, I'm not going to look up the directions or a video on how to use this because I just want to see how easy it is for the consumer. And also, I'm not going to take off my mascara.

[Sarah]

Okay. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Love you. But that's a problem.

[Sarah]

Right?

[Kirby]

Well, then. Then he's like, reading and realizes, oh, this is supposed to last three days. Okay, I'm going to go take off my mascara then.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And he originally wasn't going to because he's like, well, why would I take off my mascara? I'm putting on a fake lash. Like, that's just how you do it.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So he goes and takes off the mascara. He still doesn't, like, look up a video. He tries them, and I will be honest, they didn't look good on him.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Because he had such an intense eye makeup situation as well. You could not even see these lashes.

[Sarah]

I couldn't even see it.

[Kirby]

Yeah, they were too natural.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So he hates them. He's like, I'm not sealing these because they're sticky and I don't like them. And I'm like, well, they wouldn't be sticky if you had sealed them. That's the whole point of the seal.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

So anyways, he's like, mamas, we're not doing this. It's a flop for me. This obviously sets off Sahara and she goes batshit. Like, loses it.

[Sarah]

This was. Remind me what year.

[Kirby]

2018.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

So she posts this story, being like, thanks for the entertainment, Manny Mua. How about you, like, actually use the product properly? Fair. Fair point.

[Sarah]

Fair.

[Kirby]

Then she posts a feed post that's branded Lashify. That's like, not everybody wants to look like a drag queen. Which, like, started a lot of the problems. Okay. This started a lot of the problems. Manny, by the way, is not a drag queen. If he ever wants to do it, though I am there with bells on.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

He would kill it.

[Sarah]

Kill it.

[Kirby]

Then she goes on her Instagram lives and she's like, at the end of the day, he's still a dude. He's still a dude. Mind you, this is literally like, four years into this, like, men wear makeup situation. This is not, like, a taboo thing anymore.

[Sarah]

Also, she used to do these lives a lot.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Because I would remember. I would, like, open my Instagram and accidentally go on it, and it would always be her.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Just ranting about something.

[Kirby]

She loved Instagram Live. So this did not. The beauty community did not take kindly to this because Manny, of course, gets on beauty Twitter and is like, so you're sexist.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Great. Patrick Star comments. Like, all these other influencers start commenting. So then at that point, the brand defends their interaction by saying that, you know, Lashify is for everyone. It's genderless. This was quote, unquote, humor. And that they're allowed to defend themselves. The way they should have handled that situation is reach out to Manny and say, hey, I think you would actually love these, but you didn't use them properly.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

Can I show you?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

I would love to talk to you about this, because I think that these are gonna Change your life 100%. She probably would be way more receptive to that and maybe even embarrassed that he didn't use them properly.

[Sarah]

Which, by the way, this is the manner in which a lot of brands interact with influencers, creators, consumers.

[Kirby]

I can't tell you how many brands have reached out to me to be like, we heard that you don't really like us, but we love you. Can we work? And I'm like, I give you credit for that.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

It's not. You don't have to do that.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

After all of that goes down, Bethany posts. Manny jumps into the conversation. Okay. And he goes, benny Frankel, you're my queen. Because you don't even want to know. Like, actually, a lot of you do know. And so he brings it up, and he said that after that whole situation, all the stuff that we saw publicly, he revealed that Sahara got his phone number from his order and called. Or texted. I think it was a text texted him, basically threatening legal action for not liking the product and giving it a bad review.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

Due to not using it correctly. First of all, I definitely think that's like, a privacy issue.

[Sarah]

100%.

[Kirby]

I don't like that at all.

[Sarah]

And also, again, you're not going to win that.

[Kirby]

Like, what I bring all this up though, because while Sahara did write this message to Bethany saying that she was not trying to be threatening, the history proves otherwise. What should Sahara do? I have a few thoughts. Okay.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I think she should continue on her crusade against these large companies that have purposefully taken her patented IP and are profiting off of it.

[Sarah]

Agreement.

[Kirby]

Do it. And obviously you're entitled to compensation and whatever the hell else you want. Do it.

[Sarah]

And she ha. She's successful. I mean, $34 million. Like, keep going, sis.

[Kirby]

Keep doing it. Maybe think of creating a cheaper alternative to your own system that can be in a more mass retailer so that everybody can get a taste of the Lashify pie.

[Sarah]

I love that. I love that. To go. And direct competition with the Kiss. And what's the other ones like?

[Kirby]

There's like a billion.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Amazon ones.

[Kirby]

Like a million of them. Okay. And stay out of people's DMs. Stay out of people's DMs.

[Sarah]

Take a step back.

[Kirby]

Make your own Instagram private.

[Sarah]

100%.

[Kirby]

Redirect the chip on your shoulder and take care of yourself. In the caption of her apology, she mentioned that she has an illness that she's been dealing with. So I understand there are stress associated there. That does not is not an excuse for your behavior currently or over the years. It's time to let go. Let the lawsuits and let that happen.

[Sarah]

Yep. And you know, I know that she works with a really great PR agency. She should just let them handle the promo of this brand. Restrategize.

[Kirby]

Her PR team deserves a Margarita IV after this week because they deserve it. And for what it's worth, lashify has jumped around PR agencies, so clearly they are trying to help rehab this image. We'll say that I have seen a lot of. I tried it. This Lash system. Now take over the first page of Google versus. It used to be a lot of Sahara. Lottie Lashify Founder. Bad news, Bad news. Bad news. Bad news, Bad news. Okay, so seems to be working great. Way to go, pr.

[Sarah]

Way to go pr.

[Kirby]

I truly, I'm not trying to be aggressive when I say this. Please come on the podcast, we did reach out to her PR for a statement and they wrote us back and they said we will not be giving a statement at this time. However, in the future we should have Sahara on the podcast. And truly, this is an open invitation. Come on the podcast, let's talk about it. I just deeply need to know what the strategy was with all of this when it comes to going after your consumers who apparently really liked your product. Enough to buy it and then you go after them. That's what I would like to know. Maybe there's something I'm missing here. I'm hoping. I'm hoping. Truly, maybe.

[Sarah]

Well, we'll see. If she comes on, she can tell us.

[Kirby]

So if anybody watching this is a big Lashify fan, say go on Gloss Angeles. Go comment. Go on Gloss Angeles. We want to hear you talk to Kirby and Sarah. I would. Personally. I'm waiting for that conversation. Can't wait.

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