The Secret Sauce Behind Ultra Violette’s Best-Selling Sunscreens

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary
Episode: "The Secret Sauce Behind Ultra Violette’s Best-Selling Sunscreens"
Release Date: April 18, 2025

Hosted by Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan

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1. Introduction

In this engaging episode of Gloss Angeles, hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan welcome Becky Jefford and Ava Matthews, the dynamic co-founders of Ultraviolet, an Australian sunscreen brand making waves in the U.S. market. The episode delves into the intricacies of Ultraviolet’s successful expansion, their unique formulation strategies, and the challenges they’ve overcome in the competitive skincare industry.

2. Ultraviolet’s Global Formulation Strategy

Becky and Ava explain Ultraviolet’s commitment to creating high-quality sunscreens tailored to different international markets. Unlike many brands that adopt a "lowest common denominator" approach—using a single formulation that meets basic regulatory requirements across all regions—Ultraviolet employs a "highest common denominator" strategy.

Becky Jefford [08:36]:
"We take the opposite of the lowest common denominator approach by formulating to the best that each market can possibly accept in terms of ingredients and levels of protection."

This meticulous process ensures that each sunscreen variant is optimized for its specific market, enhancing both efficacy and user experience.

3. Sunscreen Formulation and Efficacy

The discussion highlights the scientific rigor behind sunscreen formulation. Ultraviolet prioritizes accurate SPF claims by adhering to both FDA (U.S.) and Australian testing standards. This dual-standard approach ensures that their products not only meet regulatory requirements but also deliver superior protection.

Ava Matthews [12:05]:
"If a product meets SPF 50 under FDA standards but not under Australian standards, we continue formulating until it does. We hold ourselves to a higher standard to ensure consistency and reliability across all markets."

They also address common industry practices, such as the use of boosters and additional filtering agents to enhance SPF ratings. Ultraviolet emphasizes transparency and accuracy in labeling to combat misinformation and greenwashing prevalent in the beauty industry.

4. Product Launch and U.S. Market Integration

Launching Ultraviolet in the U.S. posed significant challenges, particularly in maintaining the brand’s integrity and product quality. Through extensive testing and customer feedback, Becky and Ava ensured that their U.S. formulations matched the quality of their Australian counterparts.

Becky Jefford [16:12]:
"We conducted blind tests with our top customers to ensure that the American formulations were indistinguishable from the Australian ones. For some products, we couldn’t find a difference, affirming our commitment to quality."

This dedication paid off, allowing Ultraviolet to successfully introduce their products in major U.S. retailers like Sephora, gaining enthusiastic reception from consumers.

5. Business Growth and Funding

Ultraviolet's journey began as a bootstrapped venture, with the founders initially funding the brand through personal savings. Over four and a half years, they built a robust Direct-to-Consumer (DTC) business, focusing on strong cash flow and tight financial management.

Sara Tan [21:20]:
"We funded the brand for the first four and a half years without external investment, relying on our expertise in product development and a disciplined approach to finances."

As the business scaled, they sought investment to expand further, particularly into the U.S. market. Their success in global formulation and a loyal customer base attracted investors interested in supporting their vision.

6. Industry Challenges and Combating Misinformation

Becky and Ava express their frustration with the rampant misinformation surrounding sunscreens. They criticize misleading claims such as "reef-safe" and "100% mineral," which often lack scientific backing and contribute to consumer confusion.

Becky Jefford [28:26]:
"There’s a lot of misinformation out there. Claims like 'reef-safe' have no scientific basis, and brands should do their homework before making such assertions."

They emphasize the importance of accurate education, urging consumers to seek evidence-based information and rely on brands that prioritize transparency and efficacy.

Ava Matthews [11:21]:
"Mislabeling is a major issue. If a product claims to be 100% mineral but isn't, it undermines consumer trust and the integrity of the sunscreen category."

7. Future Plans and Sustainability

Looking ahead, Ultraviolet plans to expand their product range and refine their formulations further. They aim to introduce a broader shade range tailored to the U.S. market and explore innovative ingredients that enhance both protection and skin health.

Becky Jefford [39:01]:
"Our success so far is just the beginning. We’re focused on staying on shelves, expanding our product line, and ensuring our supply chain remains robust to meet growing demand."

They also highlight their commitment to sustainability, ensuring that their products not only protect skin but also the environment.

8. Personal Insights and Anecdotes

The episode features light-hearted moments where the founders share personal experiences related to sunscreen misuse and the importance of regular skin checks. Their candidness adds depth to the conversation, making complex topics relatable and engaging.

Sara Tan [34:00]:
"I had to get tanning certified to talk about this at 16, but I was still wearing sunscreen on my face because I learned early on that it's the best protection you can wear."

9. Conclusion and Contact Information

As the episode wraps up, Becky and Ava provide listeners with ways to connect and stay updated with Ultraviolet.

Becky Jefford:
"You can find us on Instagram at @ultravioletAU and reach out directly if you have any questions or just want to say hi."

Ava Matthews:
"Follow us on TikTok @avaisabellamatthews for behind-the-scenes looks and skincare tips."

Key Takeaways

• Ultraviolet's Unique Approach: By adopting a highest common denominator strategy, Ultraviolet ensures their sunscreens are tailored to meet the specific needs and regulations of different markets, setting them apart from competitors.

• Commitment to Quality: Rigorous testing against both FDA and Australian standards guarantees the efficacy and reliability of their products.

• Combating Misinformation: The founders actively work to dispel myths and promote evidence-based skincare practices, advocating for transparency in the beauty industry.

• Growth Through Bootstrapping: Ultraviolet's initial success was built on personal investment and a strong DTC model, illustrating the potential of disciplined financial management and product excellence.

• Future Expansion: Plans to diversify their product range and enhance sustainability practices indicate a forward-thinking approach aimed at long-term success.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Becky Jefford [08:36]:
  "We take the opposite of the lowest common denominator approach by formulating to the best that each market can possibly accept in terms of ingredients and levels of protection."

• Ava Matthews [12:05]:
  "If a product meets SPF 50 under FDA standards but not under Australian standards, we continue formulating until it does. We hold ourselves to a higher standard to ensure consistency and reliability across all markets."

• Becky Jefford [16:12]:
  "We conducted blind tests with our top customers to ensure that the American formulations were indistinguishable from the Australian ones. For some products, we couldn’t find a difference, affirming our commitment to quality."

• Sara Tan [21:20]:
  "We funded the brand for the first four and a half years without external investment, relying on our expertise in product development and a disciplined approach to finances."

• Becky Jefford [28:26]:
  "There’s a lot of misinformation out there. Claims like 'reef-safe' have no scientific basis, and brands should do their homework before making such assertions."

• Ava Matthews [11:21]:
  "Mislabeling is a major issue. If a product claims to be 100% mineral but isn't, it undermines consumer trust and the integrity of the sunscreen category."

• Becky Jefford [39:01]:
  "Our success so far is just the beginning. We’re focused on staying on shelves, expanding our product line, and ensuring our supply chain remains robust to meet growing demand."

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This episode of Gloss Angeles offers a comprehensive look into Ultraviolet’s strategic approach to sunscreen formulation and market expansion. Becky Jefford and Ava Matthews’ insights provide valuable lessons for aspiring beauty entrepreneurs and consumers seeking trustworthy skincare solutions.

Transcript

[Capital One Bank Guy]

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[G]

G.

[Kirby]

L a M Los Angeles. Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles Glams. We have talked about this brand, these products endlessly. And my new favorite saying is our long standing national nightmare is over. They are finally in the us. Ultraviolet is at Sephora, so you can easily get your hands on it. You don't have to hoard it from your international travels like myself and Sarah were for many, many years. You guys know that this is a brand that I talk about nonstop. This is my go to sunscreen. I absolutely love it. When I first found it, I was so thankful. I remember hearing all the hype. It was an if you know, you know, type of thing, especially in the US And I am so glad to have both of the founders here. From good old Australia, they made their way to the U.S. beck Jefford and Ava Matthews, welcome to Gloss Angeles.

[Kirby]

Thank you, Kirby. So happy to be here.

[G]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

Are you proud that I'm not saying Ultra Violet anymore?

[G]

Look, I. Take it, take it. I don't care if I'm sitting in a room with you. I don't really care what you call us.

[Sarah]

I would love to give you guys, the listeners, a quick little intro for each of you. So, Becky, a strategic business leader, product developer, who has worked in leadership roles at L'Oreal and Mecca. Ava, brand strategist, PD expert and marketer, who has worked at Mecca as well and brands like Elemis and Rationale. I think on your bio it said, what, like Delinquents? Sunscreen Delinquent.

[G]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Sunscreen Delinquent. Now, sunscreen converts who want to make sure everyone benefits from the sunscreen that they actually enjoy wearing. Before we get into all of the juicy tea, I want to know, ladies, what's on your face? What's in your hair? What are.

[Kirby]

What are you wearing?

[Sarah]

What's your fragrance? Who wants to go first? Anyone?

[G]

I'll go. Okay. Okay. My face. I'm wearing a lot of Dew at the moment. I love the Deliverance serum and Instant angel moisturiser. Like just really great basic thick moisturizer, which I love, but not heavy. And then Obviously, I'm wearing ultraviolet, but I'm wearing Queen's green because I gave away all of my. My sunscreens during the trip, so I was just like, handing them out. And because I was like, I have to wear American. You know, the American range. Not. Anyway, now I only had, like, a little bottle of Queen's Green that I. That I found in, like, a makeup bag because I didn't even know. I freaked out this morning because I was like, oh, my God, where is my sun? So I'm wearing Queen's Green, and then I'm just wearing. I don't wear a huge amount of makeup. Like, I'm. I wear Charlotte Tilbury, the Hollywood Glow. Like the.

[Sarah]

The filter.

[G]

Yeah, the filter. The whatever. The one with the. On it. And then like a benefit bronzer blush. I love blush. I wear a lot of blush.

[Sarah]

I'm looking at your blush. What blush is this?

[G]

Okay, so I've got rare. I sometimes feel like I look a bit of a clown. So I actually haven't really done a check. I'm trying to look in the camera.

[Sarah]

No, it looks great. It looks great.

[G]

I wear the rare beauty, just the cream one. And then I put it usually put a powder over the top, like another blush powder over the top. And I think this one's an RMS one. Like a pink, shiny one. I don't know. Sorry. And then I am also wearing a rare eyeshadow palette. Just a couple of the colors, and then Kevyn Aucoin mascara, which you can't get anywhere. Yeah, I've been wearing it since I was 18.

[Sarah]

I know, it's incredible.

[G]

Tubing mascaras, my favorite. I've just bought the Sarah Creole one because I love tubing mascaras.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh. Her entire line. Have you guys tried it?

[Kirby]

That's what's on my face.

[Sarah]

Sarah Creole.

[G]

Yes.

[Sarah]

I love it. I love it. Tell me your lip.

[G]

My lip is an old Dior one. Like, just a red. It, like, smells like. You know that old lipstick smell.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah.

[G]

Frederic Mall had a fragrance. I don't think they have it anymore. It was called Lipstick Rose and it smelled like Guerlain and like, Dior makeup.

[Sarah]

No way.

[G]

That was what it was inspired by. And it literally does smell like that. Really nice. I love rose, but. Yeah. Anyway, I can't find it anymore, but it smells exactly like this lipstick. I love it. And then I'm. I'm re. Obsessed with Diorissimo, like old school Dior fragrance, which is what I'd like to spray over everything at the Moment. Yeah. I saw a TikTok on it and there were like seven of the world's best noses. And they were asked what they, they were talking about what fragrances they created and then what fragrance they wish they'd created. And three out of the seven said they wish they'd created Diorissimo. And I was like, I have to get this again.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[G]

Have you smelt it before?

[Sarah]

No.

[G]

Oh my God. It's unbelievable.

[Sarah]

But I am back on my old school fashion house perfume journey. I'm really into Prada right now. Even though this is like a newer fragrance, the Prada Paradox Virtual Flower. When I saw somebody, somebody walked by me at an event. I smelled her. I said, what are you wearing? She said, prada Paradox. And then they just so happened to have sent me the new one, Virtual flower. And that's all I wear now. And I get so many compliments on it. Okay, Sarah Creel on your face.

[Kirby]

Well, first of all, I have been, I've been using retinol a lot when I've been here. My skin's quite dry from traveling. It's a 20 something hour flight from Australia and I feel like dry skin plus retinol. I feel like my face fell off this morning. So I've got a lot of dew Instant Agel on as well. And then I've got.

[Sarah]

I cannot tell, I cannot tell that.

[Kirby]

You are dry cutting everything up. It's been great, very dewy. And then I have future screen over the top, which is our liquid mineral SPF 50. And we've just been for a walk this morning. So I've done dou. I put it on, washed it off, put it back on. So I love it when I'm exercising. When we're under makeup, I've got a Pat McGrath foundation and then Cera Creel concealer. And I was busting to try that here because it's not in Australia yet. Oh, it's not? No. So I've, I've, I've gone through, I reckon, four or five of her products this trip and I am a convert. I absolutely love them. I've got, you know, 40 plus skin and it doesn't crinkle around my eyes. It's a really beautiful color. I love it. So I've got. Are you wearing the mascara and the mascara? How could you tell?

[G]

I just. Your lashes look different.

[Sarah]

Yeah, the mascara.

[G]

That's when you notice.

[Kirby]

Yeah, all the time.

[Sarah]

It's like mascara looks different.

[Kirby]

Mascara. Holy smokes. Beautiful. That's exactly what I've got. But I Had to go in over the top with a bit of Hypnos.

[G]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

Because I didn't have enough va va voom for me.

[G]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I'm not a tubing mascara gal, but I was trying because Ava has been raving about this.

[Sarah]

What's on your lips? They look so, like, juicy and moisturized.

[Kirby]

I have the Tatcha lip mask. Is it the Kissu? Yes. Oh, beautiful.

[Sarah]

Such a beautiful product. Amazing. And you look really bronzy. Do you have any bronzer on?

[Kirby]

I do have. I have Charlotte Tilbury bronzer on and I have some old Orgasm Nars. Orgasm blush. It's the old talc version.

[Sarah]

Talc version. I really love the talc version over here. I actually do like the new formulated blushes without it. They have a really pretty red shade. But we've been hearing from listeners that they're like, it's not.

[Kirby]

And I've got to find my equivalent because Orgasm now is not the same as Orgasm as it used to be.

[G]

And the bronzers, the Laguna is not the same either.

[Sarah]

No, it's. I mean, obviously reformulation.

[G]

Right.

[Sarah]

New ingredients. It completely changes things. Even the smallest one ingredient can change everything.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, do you have a fragrance that you're loving?

[Kirby]

Beck Maison Margiela. Lazy Saturday morning or Sunday morning? Lazy Sunday morning.

[Sarah]

I love Replica. I want it to last a little longer, though.

[Kirby]

I completely agree.

[Sarah]

Listen to our Replica.

[Kirby]

Yes, please.

[Sarah]

Please. We had this big celebratory brunch this week at Funk. My first time at Funkee. Y'all really did it. I was very excited to go and obviously meet you both. Cause I'm such a big fan. And we were talking about how Ultraviolet operates a lot differently than many other sunscreen brands and that you guys formulate for every country.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

That is bonkers.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Was this something that you both planned on doing when you launched the brand, or was this something that you immediately realized, hey, we've gotta do this?

[Kirby]

Ah, yeah. Interesting question. I think when we first launched the brand, we thought, oh, we really wanted to be global. I guess coming from Australia and wanting to be really clearly prestige. It's a small market in Australia if you want to be in prestige. So we knew we had to be global, and we thought it made sense to be Australian in the sun care space. So that heritage story we thought would resonate. And, you know, thankfully it has. We didn't think through the complexities of international regulations around Sun. And as we got going, you see other brands that take what we call the lowest common denominator formulation, which is let's pick one formulation that meets all of the regulatory markets and let's formulate to that. But what it means is that in some markets you get a pretty shitty version. So we take the opposite of that, which is highest common denominator. And it means formulating to the best that that market can possibly take in terms of ingredients and levels of ingredients. And I think, look, you know, that doesn't stack up. It is bonkers when you look at unit economics and efficiencies of manufacturing. But when you come from Australia, pretty much every market is bigger than us. So it does justify, you know, having a separate run. So we don't do it for every single market, but the three territories we formulate for Canada, the U.S. and rest of world. So even Canada's different to the US And a lot of companies give Canada the American formulations because it's so close. But we wanted to do highest common denominator formulations for Canada.

[G]

So I think it's only literally us and L'Oreal La Roche posay who formulate for Canada.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, wow, that's impressive.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Because if you're going for lowest common denominator, doesn't that mean the rest of the world just would get the US version? Because we have so many limited, sadly.

[Kirby]

The lowest common denominator.

[Sarah]

And that's why we're all so crazy about these international versions of these SPFs, because people's eyes are stinging. Mineral sunscreens look chalky here. There's just so many elements that make. Are sunscreens less sophisticated? But then I guess my question is, I have been privy to learning about these SPFs that launch in the US under our standards. They look incredible, but they're mineral. And I'm like, something is not adding up here. And then I go and I talk to people and I. Not rumors, but actually like seeing them be tested and it's like, well, they're not living up to their SPF grade. So I guess from Yalls perspective, do you hear a lot of brands kind of like adding in certain elements to US sunscreens to like, make them more sophisticated, but then because it's not like the primary ingredient.

[G]

Oh, you mean the boosters.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah, the boosters.

[G]

Thank you. I don't have, in theory, don't have a problem with the boosters. I think they're effectively. They're sun protection filters. Right, Effectively. But they're just not necessarily regulated as them. But so I think they're not a bad. I think it's how they market. I Think it's how you market. So if you're out there saying we're 100% minerals clean or whatever, using really bad marketing terms like, you know, that kind of greenwashing, reef safe, all that stuff that actually has no scientific basis. But I think that's the problem in the marketing. And they're, you know, they're like 100% zinc and they're actually not. So I think that's when consumers. Yeah, mislabeling, I guess, is probably the issue.

[Kirby]

But in terms of, in terms of efficacy, though, I mean, what is tested to claim the SPF number that you see on the packaging is the finished product?

[G]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So it's not the. It's the sum of the parts. So if that booster is doing its job and giving you a higher protection, then great.

[G]

Yeah, exactly right. And you often need them because in the US the only chemical UVA filter, or the only UVA filters you can really use that people commonly use now are zinc oxide, which is broad spectrum, and avobenzone. And you can only use that up to a max of 3%. So that's where a lot of this, you know, the US Formulated sunscreens fall short. Is that UVA protection? And there is a booster that kind of acts as a uva. So sometimes you kind of do need them to get that SPF efficacy, particularly in uva, up.

[Sarah]

Well, that's what I want. I want uva. I mean.

[Kirby]

That's right.

[G]

Yeah, that's what we need.

[Sarah]

I want as much UVA as possible, you know, Otherwise, if I was only focusing on just truly, like not getting a sunburn, I would just put, you know, white stuff all over me and call it a day.

[G]

Exactly right.

[Sarah]

Wow. So interesting. I love this conversation. Okay, so you've talked a lot about how Australian sunscreens, your standards differ, even just based on where you guys are in the world. Can you walk us through what makes an Aussie sunscreen superior to, let's just say a U.S. sunscreen, in your opinion?

[Kirby]

Sure. Well, I guess, you know, when you say superior, like, we do really try and say what the right sunscreen for you is the sunscreen that you want to wear. So in terms of superior, I guess that implies that you're not getting as much protection. So there's a choice you can make when you test an spf. You can test it to FDA standards, and that's what you are legally required to do to bring sunscreen into the US Cause it's a drug. And you can see your drug facts and you've got your SPF claim, that is, you can substantiate with SPF testing to FDA standards. We, for our products, decided to test FDA standards and to Australian standards. And if we found a product would meet, say, SPF 50 for FDA standards, but not FDA SPF 50 for Australian standards, we would keep going and keep formulating. So we kind of held ourselves to that standard of we want our testing to be on par with what's going with what we would claim in Australia.

[G]

Yeah, we wanted to be able to sell, if we needed to. We wanted to be able to sell these products that we're selling in the US In Australia, because we needed. We've, you know, we bang on a lot about how superior Australian sunscreens are. So we needed to really, like, we weren't just trying to get a number in the US and not actually be able to sell it in other parts of the world. We really wanted to.

[Kirby]

And there's a real advantage in doing that because you don't need to use as many filters. And sometimes those filters can be problematic in a formula where you get the greasiness or the whitening. But look, there are a lot of other ingredients in a sunscreen, not just the filters. And I think that's what makes ultraviolet different, that we also understand. They're called excipients. So we understand what are the other things that you can put into a formula that counteract the greasiness or the whitening or any of those negative side effects and also give some skincare benefits such as vitamin C or radiance, boosting or blurring, all of those types of things that we have across the range. So I think it's not just the filters, it's everything else. It's the testing that we hold to a higher standard. And really, the only reason, I think that the other reason people talk about Australian sunscreens being superior is because we've got more tools in our toolkit, so we've got more ingredients that we can choose from and play around with when it does come to textures. But we held ourselves. We had a little experiment before we started to launch in the US and we said, if we cannot form a range that feels identical to what we have in Australia per product, then we're not going to come here. So we ran an experiment. We did each of our product types and we tried to formulate with the American filters and compare it to the Australian filters. And we have a really big DTC business in Australia. So we recruited our top customers from each of those Products, gave them two blind samples, the Australian and the American. And we kept formulating until we could get them to the point where people couldn't tell the difference. And for some of our products, we couldn't. So they're not in the range at the moment.

[Sarah]

Oh, wow.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Kirby]

But for those that are, we literally had customers that could not tell the difference. And really, we're only talking about one product here, which is the Prime Screen. Cause all of the rest are actually identical. So, you know, we do put everything into this bucket of. They're different, but they're actually not. And the one product that does have different levels of filters and different filters, we have done that experiment, and we've tested it so that an Australian Supreme Screen customer cannot tell the difference between American or the Australian.

[G]

And then the rest of the range is the same version. Like Velvet Screen.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[G]

Velvet screen is lean.

[Sarah]

Is lean okay?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[G]

We just changed the name because Americans didn't understand what lean. It didn't really mean anything. We just kind of.

[Kirby]

It was meant to be lean. Like, it rhymed.

[G]

But it was also. It was a pure zinc. You know, not as many ingredients.

[Kirby]

Kind of just like, lean on ingredients.

[G]

Yeah, lean on ingredients. It didn't really translate, so we were fine.

[Sarah]

It does feel like velvet.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And this is actually one of the only zinc sunscreens that I truly am obsessed with. Like, it feels amazing. Underneath makeup, it. I feel like it's a little thicker.

[Kirby]

It is, but the blurring.

[Sarah]

It glides. It looks beautiful. I really do. I think it's a beautiful formula.

[G]

It's a really high percentage of zinc, which is why it's thicker. I mean, it's not. It's pretty much the highest you can put in a formulation. It's 23.7.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[G]

So, yeah, it's very high, which is why it's thicker. But Future is not that much less. It's only. It's 20%. Just over 20%. And obviously, I don't know if you felt the texture, the difference, but it's. You know, there's been a lot of innovation in zincs. You know, in the last handful of years.

[Sarah]

I'm wearing Future today. I love it. I'm usually not a fluid girl.

[G]

Really?

[Sarah]

Yeah. I don't do fluids usually because I have typically pretty oily skin.

[G]

Right.

[Sarah]

And so it just makes me look like a disco ball. And I kind of need something a little bit more natural.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

I love it. I love that there's a little bit of a tint to it as well. When I'm rubbing it in, it doesn't look white, doesn't give me a chalky anything. So I wear it a lot, actually during the week under my makeup. I love it. Supreme is, I would say is like taking a backseat right now to Future, but. Okay. So is future a part of the original core?

[G]

We just launched it this year, so.

[Sarah]

This is a new one.

[G]

And it's a global.

[Kirby]

Everyone.

[Sarah]

It's a global amazing.

[Kirby]

And it's part of the cool. So it's exactly the same. I love it.

[Sarah]

What's the one in the little. Cute. They're like a little bottle with a little like not nipple.

[Kirby]

I don't know what to call daydream screen.

[Sarah]

Okay. Okay. There's so many options to choose from, but those haven't come here yet. And why not?

[G]

Because they're utilizing the newer filters. So that's a rest of world formula. And we have a bit of work to do, I think on that range before from a shade, I think we need some undertone help. We need someone to help us, I think, develop the color side of things.

[Kirby]

Just to make sure the American market would be catered for. Like, it's a big job to get 15 shades. Absolutely. Right, Right. And I think, you know, there's one thing about base formulations being global, but there's also shades being global and they're not. So we would want to do the work on making sure we. We nail that as well.

[G]

Yeah, we're talking to a U.S. customer base.

[Sarah]

100%.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

The body sunscreen. What's that called? Well, so there's the face and body for us, and then there's the body, which I have in a pump.

[G]

Yes.

[Sarah]

I bought it at Liberty London. It's right by my door. I'm wearing it right now. I love it because it has a shimmer, but when I was talking to you guys, you're like, no, this face and body, it looks similar. Cause it's the blue with the lighter blue. But it doesn't have a shimmer because it's face and body.

[Kirby]

It's called vibrant screen.

[G]

Vibrant.

[Sarah]

Vibrant. Love it. And that formula is the same, or that's a completely new product.

[Kirby]

It's tweaked. So this is how things work. When you work with a great retailer like Sephora, they like to get in the kitchen, they call it, and really help you get the range. Right. So we had extreme screen from Australia that actually would have been completely compliant to have here. And so when we were working with Sephora, on the range, they said, could you make it for face? And we have some, I guess, some non negotiables. We want things for the face to be lighter. The fragrance had to be different because it was a very body inspired fragrance and we wanted to dial down the shimmer significantly. So other than those things, we've made it slightly lighter. Change the fragrance and change the shimmer. It's exactly the same formulation as Extreme.

[G]

And we added some skincare actives in as well.

[Sarah]

Oh, amazing. Which ones?

[G]

Pentavitin for hydration. And there's also an aloe in there as well. And one other. You're testing me.

[Sarah]

Let me not to put you on the spot.

[G]

Yeah, I might be squalane as well. There's some really good hydrators in there.

[Sarah]

Awesome. Let's talk about money.

[Kirby]

Okay, great.

[Sarah]

I just think about you guys making for the highest common denominator and then I'm thinking about.

[G]

I just love that.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I was gonna say six years ago, you're making this brand and you're like, okay. By the way, sunscreen is already like one of the most expensive categories to go into for all of the testing. Can we talk about. I think our listeners would be really curious to know, like, it's a feat that you guys literally have a brand that's solely based on sunscreen.

[G]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

When you were first launching six years ago, what was it like trying to get investors on board?

[Kirby]

The only investors we had to get on board at the start were Ava Matthews and Rebecca Jefford. Wow. Okay. You know, we raided our piggy banks and our child's college funds, children's college funds, and we kind of what you'd call bootstrap it so we didn't have to have those conversations. Wow. And we funded the brand for the first time, four and a half years without investment. And I think how we did that is we are product developers and we have done this before. And I think we went in eyes wide open. And when we say we put in our savings, we put in enough to get us. Well, I always used to say, like the one plus one and a half orders. So if we can get the first one and a half orders done out of this fund. And mind you, sunscreen, what makes it expensive also is that the minimum water quantities you have to make are tens of thousands of units. You're not making a couple of hundred to test a concept. It's tens of thousands of units. Wow. Which is terrifying. So anyway, we did that. A key aspect of us enabling us to get that far without Fundraising is that we have a really strong DTC business and it's great for cash flow and it's great for margin. And we were really all over those concepts at first. We managed money incredibly tightly. We didn't have an office for the first four and a half years. Is. We didn't pay ourselves for the first 12 months. Like, we really did things in a pretty scrappy way.

[G]

We had no employees.

[Kirby]

We had no one to help us do.

[Sarah]

And now what, you have 50, 30.

[G]

How many employees? 30.

[Kirby]

30.

[Sarah]

Wow. Congratulations. That's such a huge deal. I didn't realize that you two were like, okay, we're going all in on this. Here we go. So what about year four made you guys decide? Okay, maybe was it just scaling the business?

[G]

Yeah, it was just scaling the business. And, you know, we were kind of, we just entered Europe. We, you know, we didn't necessarily need the money at the time as well. We, we kind of, we talked about doing the U.S. but it wasn't, it was, wasn't really until we actually started the process of raising money when, you know, all the, like, great beauty investors, most of them are here in the US and they were all asking, you know, when are you going to the U.S. you know, and we, we would say, no plans, we're just going to do Europe, we're going to do the uk we might do Canada.

[Sarah]

Hard to get. Hard to get.

[G]

But we wanted some smart people to kind of help advise us. You know, this is our first time running our own business. So we wanted some, some advice and some great people around the table. And that was kind of what drove that. And then the money was great for the business, but, you know, it allowed us to do lots of things. But at that point, that's when we started seriously thinking and talking about the US as well. Although I will say our investors were fine with coming on board without, with us not having the US in the immediate kind of sights in our immediate sides.

[Sarah]

So I remember talking to Sarah about it, about how we are gonna have to consistently, like, make trips to at least London to try to get, you know, to Liberty to get these products. Because I remember in a Beauty Independent article, yeah, I think it was you, Ava, that said we can't make. We probably won't come to the US because we can't. We want, we don't wanna risk not having this product that is just as efficacious and feels as great as what we have for everybody else. And I remember being like, you know what? Hell, yeah, that's right. So Then when this announcement came, I was obviously very biased. Cause I was excited for myself. But then I'm like, but wait, how's this gonna work? And we mentioned this on a past episode, glams. But I cannot tell the difference between Supreme Scream. Like, I just. I cannot. I mean, I only know because Ava ended up sending me, like the really gorgeous kind of the shiny one. Shiny bottle that's in like a pump that I was like, really psyched about. And so I know, like, that's my Aussie version. But then, like, I have a bunch. Like I have a travel version of Supreme Screen that I keep in like my travel bag. And then I have one in my bath and I don't know, I can't tell you which one is the US version at this point. It's just great. What it is.

[G]

That's what we wanted.

[Sarah]

So how many iterations of that did you guys. Was there ever an option where you were like, supreme Screen is not coming to the U.S. no, no.

[Kirby]

We needed either supreme or Queen. We needed one of those two to land. And Queen, we couldn't get there. That's why Queen's not in the launch range. But we're hopeful that it will be in the next little while with some changes that are coming, but no Supreme. As I mentioned, the other excipients and the other ingredients really helped us get there in terms of texture and feel and, you know, like baking a cake as well. It's not just the ingredients, it's the meth and the formula. And we've got an incredible in house product team. We've got chemists that we work with that really understand our esthetic, I guess, in terms of how things need to feel. And they nailed it. I'd say we got there in about 10.

[G]

Yeah. It wasn't as many as you would think.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[G]

Actually, yeah, it wasn't as many. And then I think for me it was like, can the die hard supreme customer tell the difference? And when we. When people were saying they can't tell the difference, and in fact they liked the US version better, some of them, we were like, okay, we've got it. We've done it. Yeah. It didn't take as long as I think we probably thought. And that's, I guess to Beck's earlier point that we made all these, you know, big lofty statements about never coming.

[Kirby]

Here, but we never actually very unchecked.

[G]

Yeah. And then we were kind of like, yeah, okay, we can't really be a big global beauty brand without the U.S. and if we don't do it. Someone's going to do it. And we'd be kicking ourselves if someone else did it.

[Kirby]

And I remember we had a real, like, really deep conversation one day, and I think we were walking to get coffee, which is where all of our deep conversations happen pretty much. And we do that and have a coffee or champagne multiple times a day, by the way, that coffee walk. And we were saying exactly this point, like, we are making a huge assumption that we can't do this. We have to, at the very least, test that assumption. And you know what that also comes with. With experience and a little bit more cash behind you as well, because we didn't have 10 rounds to waste at the start. You didn't have funds to do 10 rounds, and maybe, maybe not. It would work. So, you know, that also comes with experience and growth. So thankfully, we nailed it.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I love. This is great. I'm loving this conversation, by the way. Having so much fun.

[G]

Me too.

[Sarah]

So I want to know some dirty secrets from the two of you. You really understand sunscreen regulations? You understand sunscreen formulations, what the consumer is looking for, marketer needs, you know, like, there's all of these things at play. Is there anything that grinds your gears? Or like, what is the Aussie term for, like, pissed off? What did you say at the lunch?

[G]

Get the shits.

[Sarah]

Get the shit.

[G]

Gives me the shits.

[Sarah]

Is there anything that gives you all the shits about when people promote sunscreen a certain way or the conversation around sunscreen? And if so, what?

[G]

Yeah, there's so many things. I don't even know where to start.

[Kirby]

Let me start, because you'll have a good point of view. But I really get the shits with misinformation and people trading off it when they. If you had done your homework, you would know beef tallow is not necessarily a great way of protecting your face. Or reef safe is actually quite a troublesome claim when you really dig just a little bit behind the surface and maybe do that little bit of extra research and try and read those papers that are substantiating, in your view, that claim, because there's nothing there. You know, as a society, we've evolved to the point where consumers should expect brands to do that extra level of detail. And if you are making a claim as serious as sun protection, then, God damn it, you've got to, like, make sure you know what you're talking about. So that. That grinds my gears.

[G]

Yeah. I mean, sunscreen at, you know, the heart of it. It's A medical product where, you know, we are a drug industry in Australia, we're a drug in the US We're a drug in Canada. You know, it's, it's really that kind of, I guess, intersection of beauty and wellness and health. So, you know, they need. There is a lot of work and testing that goes into making a sunscreen. And for people to just say, you can make your own or don't use sunscreen. It's that, it's that rfk ification of sunscreen that probably pisses me off. Off the most because they don't, they don't know. It's like, you know, even Kate Hudson's like, give me a great natural, clean sunscreen to wear. And it's like, girl, like, how much Botox have you got in your face? That is what really, I mean, that's just one thing. It's just. And look, people, you know, you have. People can have their own view on sunscreens. That's fine. But it's just. Yeah. That really, really pisses me off. And there is a lot of misinformation about sunscreen. And, you know, most of it is, that is things like re, you know, clean, reef, safe and that this is. Annoys me about a lot of beauty, to be honest, as well. It's not just limited to sunscreen, but I think sunscreen is, you know, sunscreen gives you cancer. Why are we. Why have rates of skin cancer gone up? You know, my, my ancestors never wore sunscreen. I'm like, they wore mud. Yeah.

[Sarah]

They put mud on their bodies to protect themselves.

[G]

And they died at 34.

[Sarah]

Right, right. Their lifespan was like a third.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I watched a tick tock today of a man that's like 101 years old.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

On a plane.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Still like fully, like, you could not tell that he was 101 years old. Like, our life are getting longer.

[G]

I know. I read something when I had my two boys who were young like that they might live to like 118.

[Sarah]

That's bonkers.

[G]

I know.

[Kirby]

Do we want to live that long?

[Sarah]

That's the real question.

[G]

I don't know. I mean, depends how good I look.

[Sarah]

Yeah. That's a whole other conversation. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I really respect you both for coming out and saying that because I do think there's a lot of brands oftentimes that are pressured by retailers, but also consumers to make things because they're like, well, does this have chemicals in it? And we talk about the chemical conversation all the time. Water is a chemical. If everything seeped through your skin, you would drown in the shower. The skin is an amazing organ because it actually is there to help protect you, so why not protect it? Those types of things. You mentioned the botox conversation. I have a lot of girlfriends who I love dearly. Well, is there a product that doesn't have any chemicals that will do this? And I'm like, girl, you're at the cosmetic dermatologist getting a neurotoxin injected into your face every three to six months. Yeah. Why are you so scared? Literally, I'm like, this does not make any sense. So the toxin conversation versus, like, other things they're doing, it's very disconnected, isn't it? It's a very disconnected conversation.

[G]

And the tan line conversation on Tik Tok as well, like, that's terrifying.

[Sarah]

Yeah. For those that may not be familiar, what is it?

[G]

So it's just girl, like, the girlies on TikTok showing off their, like, sunburns, basically. And intentionally people, like, kind of putting tape and making their own tan line. Like, it's like, yeah, I don't really get it, but it's just basically lying out. The kind of idea, glorifying yourself of burning yourself and lying out in the sun all day, which, you know, you should not be lying out in the sun all day exposed to sun all day. Sure, a bit of sunlight is good for you, but you don't need to be doing it for hours and hours and hours. And all of the sunburn that you see on TikTok, and it's just. Yeah, it's like, just be better.

[Sarah]

No, totally. Also, when you're young, you think to yourself, oh, when I'm older, there'll be, like, a cure for, like, I won't have to worry about looking. However, growing up, I grew up in Texas. I worked at a tanning salon. We did not know.

[G]

No.

[Kirby]

As in a tanning bed.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay.

[Sarah]

We did not know that this was a bad thing. So we're like, okay, you jump in the tanning bed for 12 minutes. You do the high pressure bed, which is mostly uva, which is like, oh, my God, what were we thinking? And then you pop in a mystic tan, and you do, like, a cocktail of tanning.

[G]

So you like a spray towel. Like a spray towel.

[Sarah]

So then you're like. You do it, and you're like, do. Both your pores are open after the tanning bed. You know, just like all this misinformation. I had to get tanning certified to talk about this at 16, right?

[G]

Yeah. Hilarious.

[Sarah]

But I was still wearing sunscreen on my face because I had learned when I was 13 from Allure magazine, the best thing you can ever wear is a sunscreen.

[Kirby]

God bless Allure.

[Sarah]

Thank God I was wearing it, like, at least on my face and neck. But, like, I'm looking at the rest of my body going, oh, I'm, like, getting, like, treatments on my arms, my hands, like, my feet.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Crazy stuff.

[G]

I'm covered in pigmentation. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Moles on my back.

[G]

I've got 100 moles.

[Sarah]

No way.

[G]

100 moles.

[Kirby]

I've probably got about 400.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

I would say you've got a lot.

[G]

Yeah. I'm like. I didn't even realize how I got a proper skin check. We get them. We pay for our team to have them, and we get them every year. But I went to a new place this year, and he was like, yeah, you've got over 100, so you'd have to come back every four months. And I was like, wow.

[Kirby]

Well, even. Even as a. As a business. So we. As Ava said, we get. We encourage everyone to have a skin check. How many lesions of people had, do you think, this year? Because people will come in with bandages on their face and on their nose and. And look, it looks like a massacre in the ultraviolet office at times. But thank God that everyone's getting these things checked. And I do think if we weren't there being SPF mums, pushing everyone into not just wearing sunscreen, but go and get your skin checked, you know, some of them wouldn't have, so.

[G]

No. And it's not cheap. I mean, we've seen all the expensive receipts come in.

[Sarah]

It's like.

[G]

I think mine was $500.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[G]

Because it was. And then I got a couple of biopsies, but, you know, the receipts, they're like 350.

[Kirby]

It's every dollar well spent.

[G]

Yeah, it is. It's obviously a great investment. It's helpful. It's your health.

[Sarah]

Can we talk about rationale for a second?

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Do you mind? So the reason why I wanted to bring them up is because they did make a play here in the US they have a spa here on Melrose Place.

[G]

It was closed. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, did it close?

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay. That's an Australian brand that I don't think converted well over here, and you guys have really made it work.

[G]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Why do you think you both were able to make. Make Ultraviolet something that people were kind of chomping at the bit to get here versus some of these other Australian brands? I know that rationale. Is not a sunscreen brand, it's a skincare brand. But what do you attribute to the success of people really being excited about your brand?

[G]

There's so many brands these days, right? I think, you know, I think the brands that are going to win are the ones that are really differentiated and kind of pointed in what they're trying to do. So, you know, I think us staying in our lane and doing just great sunscreen products has really helped us because it's clear we're a sunscreen brand. We're from Australia, the name's Ultraviolet. I think the simpler you can make things, the easier it is for the consumer to understand. I think our packaging is fun. I think our tone of voice is fun. And that's something we really worked at because when we launched the brand, there was a lot of kind of basic sun, you know, sun messaging. It was very much, it was a lot about cancer, which of course we've talked about is very important. But, but like, are you going to get a 20 year old wearing sunscreen because of like, they're worried they're going to get cancer?

[Sarah]

No, no, I, I mean, case in point.

[G]

Yeah, exactly. Right. I didn't, I didn't wear it until I started at Mecca. So until I was in my, like late 20s, I wasn't wearing sunscreen. I thought it was a cancer thing. I was like, I don't care. Like, exactly. As you said, there's going to be, there'll be something I can take, you know, when I'm 60 and unfortunately not the case. But the aging thing, I think, and talking is, is really key because, you know, we're a vain, we're all vain. People spend their lives, you know, no one's looked at themselves this much. You know, we don't. We open our phone, we, you know, when you're looking at yourself, you're making content, you're looking at yourself, you're taking a selfie. Like, I feel like people are just very overwhelmed with themselves, you know, and you're seeing your skin, your face all the time. Like it's, it's just a different kind of world, obviously. But I think, you know, people, pigmentation is a message that, you know, people will understand. Not, you know, delaying things like Botox and filler or whatever you girls getting Botox at 20 is insane. And you don't need to do that if you're wearing sunscreen. We shouldn't really be doing that anyway. But, you know, wear sunscreen. If you were wearing sunscreen from the age of 15, I guarantee you would not be even thinking about Botox at 20, 21, whatever it is. So, yeah, yeah. And having a bit of fun with it, I think helped as well.

[Kirby]

So I think we've, we've, we've got a really shared alignment in terms of how we think about beauty in Australia, as to how I think Americans do. So I think, think that has really helped us. But I also think we're not crazy enough to realise we haven't made it. Like we've just launched. So success to us looks like staying on shelf, building out the brand, bringing in new products, and that means putting a really great team on the ground here, making sure supply chain and logistics is really. I know that's not sexy, but you have to have good supply. We have to be keeping up with what's happening in the market. So it's a long road ahead. And whilst it's been great to be welcomed with such beautiful American open arms, we're not kidding ourselves that we know we've got a big job ahead and, and we hear lots of brands, like, not just Australian, you know, it's hard to launch into other markets and I think there are a million different reasons as to why it can succeed or not, and we're not taking any single one of those for granted. So I think it's really important we spend a lot of time here. You know, we do have a team on the ground here and I know that, you know, other brands have done that too, but we've tried to learn from each of them and make sure that our brand is here for the distance.

[G]

Yeah. And I, you know, I think at the end of the day, if you've got good product that really, like, there's so much shitty product, you know, I think good product really does stand out.

[Sarah]

I agree. We are, unfortunately, at the end of our time together, which is such a bummer because I have a million more questions. I'm so glad we were able to make this work since both of you were in town. Now Sarah and I have to come to you guys.

[Kirby]

Absolutely.

[Sarah]

It was so funny at the, the brunch, you were saying that so many people were talking to you about scary bugs, bugs, bugs. And literally I was laughing because before I saw you guys, I was thinking, I want to come visit them, but.

[Kirby]

I'm scared of the spiders.

[Sarah]

I'm like, I don't want to open up a car door and a spider bee under there.

[Kirby]

This is a real thing. You are not the only person that thinks that. Loads of people have said to us, we would Love to come, but TikTok.

[Sarah]

TikTok has really put the spider thing on the map on a level where I have, like severe arachnophobia. Like, I'm not afraid of a lot of things. Yeah, the spider thing freaks me out.

[Kirby]

You're going to be okay. Let me just tell you that you're going to be.

[G]

Don't go into the, like the bush. Bush in. Actually, you wouldn't even see a spider in the bush.

[Kirby]

Don't leave your shoes outside at night time in Queensland.

[G]

Don't go to Queen. Just don't go to Queensland.

[Sarah]

Don't go to Queensland.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And don't leave your shoes outside Queensland.

[Sarah]

I won't be going there. I will be hanging out with you too.

[Kirby]

Yeah. You'll give you a bug free trip.

[G]

It's fine. There's not that many bugs in Melbourne, I think. I think you'd be fine.

[Sarah]

I've never been, so I think that we have to figure that out. Yes, Sephora. It's there, it's there, it's there. You can pick it up right now every now. So exciting. Has there been any news? Like, is everyone excited? Is everybody happy?

[Kirby]

It's been great. It's in every store. We've got our field team out on the ground selling and meeting people and talking about the story of the brand. So it's just. It's great. We love it. It's great to be here.

[Sarah]

Okay, where can everybody find you both and also find the brand?

[G]

I am just Ava Matthews on Instagram and I think Ava Isabella Matthews on Tik Tok, but that's a work in progress, so.

[Kirby]

And Ultraviolet AU is our handle.

[G]

Handle on both.

[Sarah]

Beck, do you have.

[Kirby]

I'm private, but if you send me a nice message, I will. So I'm Beck Jefford.

[Sarah]

So amazing. Thank you, ladies.

[G]

Thank you.

[Kirby]

Thanks.

[G]

Thank you so much.

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