Why Sought-After Esthetician Joomee Song Doesn’t Recommend Retinol and More of Her Skin Secrets

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Why Sought-After Esthetician Joomee Song Doesn’t Recommend Retinol and More of Her Skin Secrets
Release Date: February 14, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Guest: Jumi Song, LA-based Esthetician

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Introduction: Welcoming Jumi Song

The episode kicks off with Kirbie and Sara warmly welcoming Jumi Song, an esteemed esthetician renowned for her holistic skincare approach that emphasizes internal health for external beauty. Kirbie expresses admiration for Jumi’s radiant complexion, highlighting her expertise and the zen-like atmosphere of her studio.

Kirbie Johnson [00:53]: "It's not because of sleep. Cause I'm not getting a ton of that. It's because of our guest today, Jumi Song, who is an LA based esthetician known for her holistic approach to skincare, emphasizing internal health for external beauty."

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Jumi Song’s Signature Approach: The Kaika Facial

Jumi introduces her signature facial sculpting massage, Kaika, a harmonious blend of facial massage, chiropractic techniques, shiatsu, and Japanese microcurrent technology. This method is designed to lift, tone, and detoxify the skin, attracting a high-profile clientele including celebrities like Lady Gaga, Zendaya, and Greta Lee.

Jumi Song [02:58]: "Kaika. It is a blend of facial massage, chiropractic, shiatsu, and Japanese microcurrent technology to lift, tone, and detoxify the skin."

The hosts commend the effectiveness of Kaika, noting its immediate relaxing effects and the personalized assessments Jumi provides, such as identifying muscle overuse that affects facial symmetry.

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Holistic Skincare Philosophy: Beyond Products

Jumi emphasizes that skincare transcends mere product application. Her philosophy centers on the belief that what you believe works for your skin, combined with mindful practices like facial massages, can significantly influence your skin’s health and appearance.

Jumi Song [08:16]: "Skin really changes because it is what you believe. If you think something really, truly works on you, if you enjoy doing it, if you enjoy receiving it, then that's how kind of skin changes."

She cautions against over-reliance on active ingredients and excessive cleansing, advocating for a balanced approach that respects the skin’s natural ability to heal and maintain itself.

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Critical Insights on Retinol and Active Ingredients

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Jumi’s skepticism towards retinol and similar active ingredients. She voices concerns about the high risk of irritation, inflammation, and long-term skin damage associated with these products.

Jumi Song [09:11]: "Bottom line is, I'm not a fan of retinol or actives in general, really."

Jumi explains that while retinol stimulates cell production for smoother skin, it simultaneously induces inflammation, which accelerates aging.

Jumi Song [10:03]: "If you are a dying fan of retinol, just do it moderately, like maybe once a week, right? Every other week."

She advises using vitamin C in oil-based forms to minimize acidity and potential irritation, recommending that even within active ingredient use, moderation is key.

---

Facial Massage Techniques: Enhancing Skin Health

Delving deeper into her expertise, Jumi shares practical facial massage techniques that listeners can perform at home to alleviate puffiness, particularly around the sinuses and masseter muscles. She details a step-by-step process:

1. Sinus Area Massage: Press and release around the sinus region to reduce puffiness.
2. Masseter Muscle Loosening: Gently press and release the masseter area to relax tight muscles and promote lymphatic drainage.
3. Eye Area Treatment: Apply gentle pressure around the eyes to alleviate heaviness and tension.

Jumi Song [35:00]: "Press release, press release. Press and release, press release."

She emphasizes the importance of consistency over duration, recommending short, daily sessions rather than prolonged massages that could lead to nerve damage.

Jumi Song [39:15]: "I would say three minutes. But if you don't have three minutes, one minute is fine."

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Injectables and Their Impact: A Cautious Stance

Jumi provides a candid critique of injectable treatments like Botox and fillers, highlighting their potential to disrupt facial muscle function and overall skin health. She argues that freezing facial muscles can impede natural processes like regeneration and detoxification.

Jumi Song [19:12]: "Freezing your facial muscles, which means it freezes the function around it... So tell me, what is that anti-aging?"

She shares her experiences with clients who have undergone excessive injectable treatments, noting issues like facial asymmetry and persistent puffiness due to uneven filler distribution.

Jumi Song [24:07]: "The filler moves around, so one day your doctor may put more on the left side or right side... But our actual inflammation move around. So you have to be aware of that too."

Jumi advises clients to seek skilled practitioners who understand facial dynamics and to maintain open communication with their doctors to ensure balanced results.

---

Client Management and Event Preparation: Crafting the Perfect Look

The conversation shifts to how Jumi prepares clients for significant events. Using the hypothetical example of preparing an Oscar-nominated actress, Jumi outlines a comprehensive timeline:

1. Initial Consultation: Assessing the client’s skin condition and establishing trust.
2. Regular Sessions: Conducting weekly massages to retrain facial muscles and address unevenness.
3. Pre-Event Intensives: Increasing session frequency leading up to the event to ensure optimal skin appearance.

Jumi Song [27:02]: "It's really like prepping for the Olympics... the day before a huge event, because your face is already in impeccable position."

She underscores the importance of consistency and the mindful approach to treatments, ensuring that the skin remains healthy and radiant without relying on disruptive practices.

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Daily Skincare Routine: Emphasizing Simplicity and Mindfulness

Jumi advocates for a straightforward daily skincare regimen, focusing on gentle cleansing and targeted massages. She recommends products like Shiseido Benefiance Eye Cream and oak essentials milk cleanser, emphasizing affordability and accessibility.

Jumi Song [04:25]: "Right now, Shiseido beneficence eye cream is the bomb. I massage with that."

For sunscreen, she prefers Badger Baby Sunscreen, praising its effectiveness and reasonable price point.

Jumi Song [04:53]: "I love that sunscreen. And you can find them anywhere, actually."

Jumi’s personal routine includes nightly facial massages lasting three to five minutes, leveraging sesame oil and high-quality creams to maintain skin health.

Jumi Song [30:25]: "Once a day... I like to do at night because that's when I have time after my kids go to bed."

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Mind-Body Connection: Addressing Muscle Overuse and Facial Asymmetry

A fascinating segment explores how habitual behaviors, such as favoring one side of the body, can lead to facial asymmetry and muscle tension. Jumi explains the physiological connections between muscle usage and facial appearance.

Jumi Song [15:54]: "So, overuse or just we all have one side that is more dominant... that side of face is puffier than the other."

She advises listeners to become mindful of their daily gestures, like chewing and holding objects, to promote balanced muscle use and prevent uneven tension.

Jumi Song [16:54]: "You have to be like mindful again, why don't I try to chew more on the left."

This awareness, coupled with regular facial massages, can harmonize facial muscles and enhance overall symmetry and relaxation.

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Recommendations: Trusted Practitioners in LA

Jumi shares her trusted network of female practitioners in Los Angeles, highlighting their skilled and sensitive approaches to facial treatments. She specifically mentions Dr. Jessica Wu, Dr. Catherine Chang, and Dr. Quinn Sebastian, commending their precise techniques and impeccable results.

Jumi Song [26:32]: "Dr. Wu... she's incredible. She has the most steady touch."

She prefers female practitioners for their nuanced and feminine touch, aligning with her holistic and sensitive approach to skincare.

---

Practical Takeaways for Listeners

Towards the episode’s end, Jumi provides actionable advice for listeners to incorporate into their daily routines:

1. Daily Facial Massage: Dedicate a few minutes each day to press and release techniques around key facial areas.
2. Mindful Practices: Be aware of habitual muscle use and strive for balance to prevent asymmetry.
3. Product Selection: Choose gentle, hydrating products and prioritize simplicity over complex active regimens.
4. Consistency: Maintain a regular skincare routine to foster lasting skin health and radiance.

Jumi Song [41:09]: "So that connecting to yourself, like you said, is so important because skin as you know, it's connected to our eyes and brains and mouth and all the sensory memories."

She concludes by sharing her social media handles and contact information, encouraging listeners to reach out for professional consultations.

Jumi Song [41:20]: "My social media is jumiesong. And yeah, you can just take us in this email, [e-mail] and it will be here."

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Closing Remarks: Embracing Holistic Beauty

Kirbie and Sara express their gratitude to Jumi for sharing her profound insights and techniques. They emphasize the episode’s theme of mindful self-care, inspiring listeners to adopt a balanced and thoughtful approach to skincare that nurtures both the skin and the soul.

Kirbie Johnson [41:55]: "Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Jumi."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Gloss Angeles offers a deep dive into holistic skincare practices, challenging conventional beauty standards and advocating for mindful, internal-focused approaches. Jumi Song’s expertise provides listeners with valuable knowledge on maintaining youthful, healthy skin without over-reliance on aggressive treatments or products. Her emphasis on consistency, balance, and the mind-body connection serves as a refreshing perspective in the beauty industry.

Listeners eager to enhance their skincare routines with personalized, gentle techniques will find Jumi’s advice both practical and transformative. By embracing the principles discussed, one can achieve radiant skin that truly reflects inner well-being.

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Follow Jumi Song:

• Instagram: @jumiessong
• Email: [e-mail]

Transcript

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[Jumi Song]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

How's my face look, Kirby?

[Sarah]

It looks so sculpted and bright. Bright and glowy.

[Kirby]

Thanks. It's not because of sleep. Cause I'm not getting a ton of that. It's because of our guest today, Jumi Song, who is an LA based esthetician known for her holistic approach to skincare, emphasizing internal health for external beauty. I mean, look how beautiful she is.

[Jumi Song]

Oh, my God. Thank you so much.

[Kirby]

Literally, a walking billboard for her own business. Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

Fun fact. I have still not seen Jumi. Not because she hasn't wanted to see me, but because I fell ill and it was the most devastating thing. But when I first met Jumi many years ago at this random event in Culver City, was that like a garage? It was a totally.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly.

[Sarah]

Do you remember?

[Kirby]

It was like a smog shop.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

I was like a garage. Yeah, the smog shop. Everyone was like, you haven't seen Jumi. It was like I had three heads or something. I'm like, I'm so embarrassed.

[Kirby]

Marie Lodi wrote a story for Fashionista and it was like if you, you know, money was no object. What's like one treatment in LA that you would get like, you know, all the time. And I picked Jumi.

[Jumi Song]

Thank you so much.

[Kirby]

And that was after only one treatment. I've still only seen you twice, but I saved that article. No, but literally it felt like it's. I know that you're offering like facial therapy, but it's literally like emphasis on therapy. Like when you go into your studio, it's such zen vibes. Just you can feel so relaxed instantly. And it's just. It's incredible. And then you put your hands on my face and then it's over. She literally put her hands on my face and then she was like, you are relying too much on the right side of your body. And it's like now carrying in your face. And that's why this side of your face is puffier. Like, have you noticed? And I like, look, I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah. Like, I looked back at photos and I'm like, it's bigger. And, like, when she was touching, like, my jaw, like, I was like, oh.

[Jumi Song]

My God, it's so stiff and just.

[Kirby]

Like this whole side. So anyways, all that to say, you're incredible.

[Jumi Song]

Thank you.

[Kirby]

You have developed your own signature facial sculpting massage called Kaika.

[Jumi Song]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And it is a blend of facial massage, chiropractic, shiatsu, and Japanese microcurrent technology to lift, tone, and detoxify the skin. You have such a huge celebrity clientele. We'll mention just a few of them. Lady Gaga, Cynthia Erivo, Sabrina Carpenter, Zendaya, Sydney Sweeney, Greta Lee, Ste, and Yun. The list goes on. So we.

[Sarah]

Who are they? Who are they?

[Kirby]

Just a few, like, budding starlets, celebrity.

[Sarah]

Class up and coming. Right, right.

[Kirby]

But we just want to pick your beautiful brain about everything that you do. And this is our self care episode.

[Sarah]

Well, because it's Valentine's Day, so we want to just focus on things that we can do to, like, make our inner self feel great. Jumi. Before we get into that, though, I wanted to ask Kaika, what does that. What does that mean? What does that word mean?

[Jumi Song]

Kaika. It means to bloom in Japanese. So this is years ago. I. You know, one of my clients mentioned, like, oh, Jumi, after I always see you, after I see you, my face started to bloom like flowers. I was like, oh, my God, what a beautiful way to describe. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna name this? Kaika. Kaika means to bloom.

[Sarah]

That's gorgeous.

[Kirby]

Beautiful.

[Sarah]

Very intentional. I love that. Okay, so if you're watching her skin, truly, I mean, it speaks for itself. So, Jumi, what is on your face? Or what products are you loving right now?

[Jumi Song]

Right now, Shiseido beneficence eye cream is the bomb. I massage with that. And then, Oh, I love to cleanse my face with oak essentials milk cleanser. Have you guys tried it?

[Sarah]

Oh, really? Yes.

[Jumi Song]

It's such a silky, milky cleanser.

[Sarah]

It's beautiful.

[Jumi Song]

Right? And then I use face cream and I put badger sunscreen, which you can find, like, whole foods.

[Kirby]

What is the brand?

[Jumi Song]

Badger.

[Sarah]

Badger. Badger, yes.

[Jumi Song]

Baby sunscreen.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

I love that sunscreen. And you can find them anywhere, actually.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

And it's only like $20.

[Sarah]

Yeah. It's an affordable sunscreen.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay. I need to buy that. Even when I see you and I'm like, what are you using? What are you using and it's like, doesn't even matter. It's not even about that. You know what I mean? She's like, it's more about the facial massage that you do and then again the beauty from like within. So like the stress and all that. Okay, so let's talk about how you came to be this celebrity esthetician. You grew up watching your grandmother's rituals that like made you really interested in facial massage. And then you pursued formal training in Japan and also the United States. How would you compare Japan's approach to facials versus the United States?

[Jumi Song]

As you know, in Japan we pay attention to details, right? A lot of like, detail, like the practice that we have to do. So like in Japan as an esthetician, like you have to kind of scoop a cream in a certain way and apply a cream for 45 degree angles, things like that, to a point where like, if you don't follow a very specific guideline by your master, you'd be like really schooled. So but you know, in America it's all about, yeah, do your own thing, you step, you know, you follow step one to step five. And as long as you do that, you can do 30 minutes extractions or you can enjoy whatever you want to do. So I do like both of the culture. However, we all have strength as a practitioner, as an assistant in us so that I want everybody to find what that thing is, you know, your niche and your strength and what you're passionate about. If it's extraction, if it's doing waxing, if it's doing chemical peels, it is doing massage, that's great. But find that one thing and just dig deeper. That's the biggest difference, I think between the way the Japan do, because we are more of like, we like to use our hands a lot, you know, like more like what we can dig deeper versus here culture is how much can we do more, you know what I mean? And it keep it very narrow.

[Sarah]

It's like a lot of tools here.

[Kirby]

Yes, A lot of machines here.

[Jumi Song]

Right, right.

[Sarah]

And you guys are really focused on the touch and like actually being able to physically be in connection with another.

[Jumi Song]

Person making it, like mustering it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course it's changing unfortunately. I mean, because of, you know, a lot of western culture has been, you know, influenced in a country. But however. Yeah, so machine. So here we use so many machines. Microcurrent, microdermations, galvanic radio frequency, I mean, you name it. But after all. So I was trained in Japan and in America. So after all, the skin does not change because you use three different machines.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Jumi Song]

Skin doesn't really change because you put 10 different layers of product. You know, so whatever your thing is as a surgeon, that's great. But at the same time, you have to kind of be accountable, you know, what you offer and what you do to people's skin.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

How does skin change then?

[Jumi Song]

Skin really changed because I was talking to, you know, Sarah about this. But it's what you believe. If you think something really, truly works on you, if you enjoy doing it, if you enjoy receiving it, then that's how kind of skin changes. If any treatment causes you pain or discomfort, that's a sign to say, you know what, stop. Your skin doesn't have to get used to a redness or build tolerance. Right. That people say you have to use this and then build tolerance or like, you have to get your skin used to this. But our skin doesn't have to get used to receiving any damage per se.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Jumi Song]

You know, so if you feel discomfort, that means that, that certain treatments are not for you.

[Sarah]

How do you, how do you feel about retinol?

[Jumi Song]

Bottom line is, I'm not a fan.

[Kirby]

Of retinol or actives in general, really.

[Jumi Song]

Right, right.

[Sarah]

Because there's a high risk for irritation due to a variety of things, high concentrations and formulas. User error, like our favorite term, user error, user error, people misusing the products. But in terms of retinol, I just hear you say, you know, your skin has to start to tolerate it. And that is like one thing that is commonly associated with retinols. Get through the retinol uglies. Get through the purge. And I remember maybe two years ago, I was like, my skin is starting to look crazy. But keep going. If you're, if you are trying a retinol, it's going to be great. And I eventually quit it because I just, I could not. It's very hard for my skin to tolerate a retinol. Like, very, very hard.

[Jumi Song]

Right. I think it's for everybody, for that matter. And so retinol, yes. So the one side, it does stimulate cell production, right. So that if cells take like, let's say 30 days to reproduce, the retinol whips your skin to say, hey, do this in 20 days. Right. So your skin has constantly newer cells, therefore smoother skin texture. But in order for you to get that one thing, smoother skin texture, you are like literally losing 90% of goodness, you know, which is your own immune system creating more inflammation. Inflammation is the one that causes Aging to begin with. So my question then, what is the even point of doing retinol? I'm not saying not to use it, but if you were, if you are dying fan of retinol, just do it moderately, like maybe once a week, right? Every other week.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

I mean, not every day.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And you feel the same about vitamin C?

[Jumi Song]

Vitamin C is because vitamin C comes in like oil form rather than acidic, like a liquid form. So if you were to use vitamin C, just use that in like oil form, like oil base, like such as in a cream, such as an oil rather than like a very strong acid type.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

You know, a lot of cream surprisingly already has vitamin C. So you don't have to layer two vitamin C product, just one is enough. Yeah, you know, yeah, totally.

[Kirby]

In addition to that, in addition to the actives that you do not really believe we need, you also don't believe that we need to be exfoliating as much or even cleaning our skin. Like cleansing our skin. You were telling me that it's just stripping like the oil that we need to keep our skin to look young. Right. So you yourself are not a big over cleanser.

[Jumi Song]

Correct? Correct. I only cleanse once a day. I rinse my face in the morning usually. The reason why I say it because. Let me just rephrase that. So I'm not a fan of over exfoliating, you know, for certain skin. I do see that exfoliation sometime is needed. You know, such people who has really thick acne skin, you know, or super greasy oily skin or like a teenager who's going through hormonal changes. But not every day. Nobody needs to use the acidic ingredients every day because again, you really have to think about. Because our skin is capable of balancing itself out. So if your skin needs a little bit of additional help, just give that little bit. Not every day more doesn't mean better whatsoever. You kind of have to find a happy medium. And how do you know that is when your skin is burning, don't use it. When your skin is irritated, don't do that. If you feel burning, if you feel irritation, if your skin was just so red and so irritated, don't do it. Just, just, you know what I mean? Just have a healthy relationship between your skin and what you do to it. Like whipping, stripping, burning. It's not the way. You really have to take more like mindful approach. If your skin is screaming for help, listen to it.

[Kirby]

So what do you do when your clients come in who have really textured skin and they want it to Be smooth and glowy.

[Jumi Song]

Like what do you recommend when you say textured skin? What do you mean by that?

[Kirby]

Like acne or even enlarged pores. Yes, enlarged pores or maybe like wrinkles, fine lines. And they don't want to see that.

[Jumi Song]

So acne, skin and then aging are two separate things, right? So when they have enlarged pore, like let's say your pore size or your pore size, there's nothing really you can do about it. You know what I mean? Even though with lasers the size of your pore doesn't really change. But if you don't, like, like let's say the scar that you created from picking, I normally send them to a doctor to get a laser. You know, I think, I think that is like the most efficient, practical way to reduce scars for wrinkles at a certain time it comes from dehydration and then that dehydration comes from overusing or overdoing something, you know. So when I redirect them not to cause more damage on daily basis and just massage your face and use gentler product, wrinkle would be like reduced significantly. Like you'd be surprised.

[Kirby]

So yesterday when you saw me, I mentioned you like put your fingers on my face and then you were like, you're overusing your right side. And it really is true. Like I feel, I mean, I'm right handed one, I definitely use my right side of my body, probably, you know, more weight on my right side and the right side of my neck is much tighter. And then that of course affects my face. But I didn't really realize there was that connection until you were massaging my jaw and it was just so much tighter than this side. Can you explain how that works? Like how overusing one side of your body can lead to tightness or facial asymmetry.

[Jumi Song]

So yeah, overuse or just we all have one side that is more dominant, right? So in your case, you rely on the right side more, you chew more on the right side. And I believe your right eye was your dominant eye, right. So this side of face is just constantly working and is sitting in driver's seat. And then on top of it you use more on the right side because muscles are attached to each other. So if the one side is so stiff, it unfortunately causes almost like, you know, like effect on another. So how do preventa is the a. You understand that you do chew more, you know what I mean? Or you use more in the right hand. So you kind of have to be like, you know, mindful again, why don't I try to chew more on the left. Why don't I try to hold toothbrush on the left side?

[Sarah]

I was gonna say, I heard that it's helpful for your brain to wake up in the morning. You do a breathing exercise. And then the first thing when you go to brush your teeth, you use your non dominant hand. Is actually a lot harder. I started to try to do that this week. I'm like, I'm a left hander. Brushing your teeth with the non dominant. It's so hard.

[Kirby]

Poking your.

[Sarah]

No, I'm like, how am I? But it really does make your brain have to think about what you're doing and use a part of your brain that maybe you're not used to. So I think that makes total sense.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah. That it actually is, like, carrying all the weight. So would you say that your.

[Sarah]

I think my left side is way more. Well, actually, you know what? When I chew, I usually chew on my right side. So, like, if I'm looking in the mirror. I don't know. You tell me, Jumi.

[Jumi Song]

I feel like he's on the right side too.

[Sarah]

So when I am in the. If I'm doing my makeup and looking in the mirror, I can literally see my masseter muscle. Like, there's sometimes like an indentation, like a shadow. It's like very faint. But I can feel it right now and see it. And it's because I chew primarily on my right side. I don't know why I don't chew as much on my left, but I do notice that I chew on my right.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I mean, I think it's just like a natural human thing. It's nothing that we can really change. Right. Unless we're like, actively thinking.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly.

[Sarah]

But then my left side of my neck is tighter.

[Kirby]

Oh, interesting.

[Sarah]

Than my right.

[Jumi Song]

I know some people are like that.

[Sarah]

Yeah. But I feel like mostly everything on my left side. It's making sense what you're saying. It's just. I know. Specifically for the chewing my right side.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

Like, this side is always. When I used to get masseter, Botox, which I haven't. I've gotten it a few times, but not a lot. It would relax, but I would get more in this side than on this side. Because this muscle is not as prominent.

[Jumi Song]

Because when the masseter gets so tight, because this is, you know, there are lymph nodes, like lymphatic drainage and capillaries and nerves. They're all kind of crazy. When these muscles are so tight, it compresses those system and therefore if your face, you know, you use more on the right side. Unfortunately, your sinus started to clog up more on the right side.

[Sarah]

Oh, really?

[Jumi Song]

The droopiness started to happen on the right side. You know, it's very subtle, but there's a reason why your one sided face is puffier than the other.

[Sarah]

That's crazy.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Very fascinating.

[Kirby]

So you also don't really believe in like injectable use, which I'm sure is really difficult for you in your business. Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

I was hoping that we would talk about this.

[Kirby]

Yeah, sorry, I didn't write it down.

[Sarah]

No, because we. When we saw Jumi at the Renew tree event, our press trip.

[Jumi Song]

Yes.

[Sarah]

We were talking all about this stuff and we're like, give us the tea. And you really were sharing that, like, you have seen people in the past where you were like, I would never send anybody to this doctor or this plastic surgeon or this dermatologist. What do you feel has gone wrong in the injectables world that you feel so strongly about?

[Jumi Song]

So here's what I'm gonna say to this. So why does freezing face consider as anti aging? I would love to know. Freezing. Freezing your facial muscles, which means it freezes the function around it. Right. Including reproduction, regeneration, detoxification. Those systems are frozen too, somewhat. So tell me, what is that anti aging? Like, it's not even like, related. Right.

[Sarah]

I like that you're bringing this up.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

My dermatologist, Dr. Nancy Samolitis, she has said this to me before. Like, when did we decide that freezing our faces meant that we looked younger?

[Jumi Song]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

And I was like, that's a really good point. But it goes back to people thinking that lines and creases make you look older. When really I truly think if your skin is most even toned and lifted and firmed and glowy and bouncy, that's what makes you look youthful. Jumi looks youthful to me. She's stunning.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And she's literally. I think you only have an eyebrow pencil in, like, I don't think she's wearing any makeup whatsoever. But if you passed her on the street, you would think she is 30 years old.

[Jumi Song]

I'm 47.

[Sarah]

And yeah. So I mean, that's a flex right there. But at the same time, you know, her face is not frozen.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

Her face is not overfilled. I have seen very tasteful filler done. But I do think people get filler blindness. And they also, if they don't get what they want from one practitioner, they go to someone else to get what they want. And then at the end of the day, they have duck lips or they have literally like, it's like your eyelashes, lower eyelashes and cheek don't have any demarcation. It's just one, one solid wall of filler, you know, so.

[Kirby]

But that probably so not the celebrities that I mentioned, but I'm sure there are some people who come in to see you living in la, you know, this is the capital of injectables, and they're asking you to sculpt their face. How do you do that?

[Jumi Song]

First of all, any of my regular clients have so much fillers and their faces are frozen because a, if your muscles are frozen, I cannot do what I do. It doesn't respond to me, it doesn't communicate with me. It responds so slow, as if you know a sushi restaurant, there's like a debt. Like half dead fish are on a counter.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

And you poke at it and it kind of like, like it responds to you like three seconds later. That's what Botok's face feels like to me.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Jumi Song]

Even though I'm beautiful visual, I try to communicate, I try to do certain things. However, it doesn't like respond to me back right away. And then when people has too much fillers, I can feel it.

[Sarah]

I was gonna say you have to be able to feel it because you are getting in there.

[Kirby]

You're getting in on top of the face and you're also going inside the mouth. Like you feel everything.

[Jumi Song]

I literally feel everything. And then when I ask people, hey, you know, you still have this side more than the other, oftentimes what I hear is, oh, my God, I haven't. Like that last time I did filler is like two years ago. So it stays long time. It doesn't dissolve that quickly. It may stay like 10 years. I know one of my clients who had a chin, like filler on a chin. And then she goes, oh, my God, that was 10 years ago.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Jumi Song]

Like, no, you still have it. You still have something here.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Is that the same for your lips?

[Jumi Song]

Lips are a little bit different pretty quickly. Yeah, quickly.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

But like a chin, these area, like very like a muscular area. Just be careful what you're putting in.

[Sarah]

Chin and cheek.

[Jumi Song]

Oh my God, the sinuses. Can I just talk about the sinus people who do fillers on this like labio nasal fold. Because they're sinuses. Right. So they get full to begin with. When you have filler, that's almost like a pushing these mucus. Your face looks so puffy, like a puffiness on top of puffiness. So you really. You want to think about, like, by puffing up your face. How does that youthful face.

[Sarah]

That's a.

[Jumi Song]

Do you know what I mean?

[Sarah]

I really like how you explain that, because sometimes people think that they're getting a moderate amount of filler, but because of where it's placed, it could potentially make you look puffy regardless.

[Jumi Song]

Oh, my God. And it moves around those fluid. The actual fluid moves around. So one day your doctor may put more on the left side or right side.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Jumi Song]

But our actual inflammation move around. So you have to be aware of that too.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

This is maybe a stupid question, but can you, like, massage the filler to go away?

[Jumi Song]

I wish I can.

[Sarah]

I feel like she would be a billionaire if that was something she could do. She's like, it's just my hands. You have some kind of electrode in your fingertips that are like.

[Kirby]

She's very powerful.

[Jumi Song]

So I have to ask what happens though? Sometime, because I drain the water retention. What happens people's face is that these fillers will almost be more defined. So you can see unevenness more.

[Sarah]

Right, Right.

[Jumi Song]

You know what I mean?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

So that. That happens all the time too.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

And that. That's when they go to their. Their plastic surgeon or dermatologist and say, dissolve this. Get it out of there.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah, but that's part of my job. Like, please go back to your doctor and ask him or her, like, do more on this side or when you go see him next time, ask him to do less, you know, because of those, like, lumps or like, unevenness started to come and just be like. Like this. This doesn't look good on you. You know what I mean?

[Sarah]

Oh, you know what? I like that. I like that. So you're not necessarily saying you need to just get rid of this or you need to start. You. If this is what you're doing, this is how you need to. Now that we can actually see.

[Kirby]

Exactly.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly.

[Sarah]

Fascinating.

[Kirby]

Do you have any favorite doctors in LA that you can mention?

[Jumi Song]

I send my clients to wait. So doctor. Dr. Wu.

[Sarah]

Oh, Jessica Wu.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

Dr. Wu. Yes. I think she's incredible. She has the most steady touch. And then Catherine Chang.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Oh, we love.

[Kirby]

She's been on the pod.

[Sarah]

Yes. We love catching.

[Jumi Song]

I've seen her actual, like, facelift surgery. Her incisions are impeccable.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Jumi Song]

And Dr. Quinn Sebastian, Santa Monica.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah. She's also incredible, too.

[Sarah]

All women.

[Jumi Song]

So those are the three. Yes. I. I love female practitioner.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

Because I believe we. We have more sensitive Touch. Nothing against male doctors, but female doctors have consistently very, like, light, feminine touch to me.

[Sarah]

There is a male gaze, after all, so.

[Kirby]

And that makes sense to me.

[Sarah]

Yes. Okay. Let's talk about clients and prepping for a big event. Can you walk us through a timeline? Let's say. I don't know. Let's say you're working on Mikey Madison. She's an Oscar contender for best actress. You know, young woman. She gets nominated for an Oscar last month. She comes to you and says, jumi, I need to look the best I've ever looked. Let's walk through what you're doing with her up until the Oscars, like, a month later.

[Jumi Song]

So if I have a month with her.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

And if her face is untouched. Right. This is the first time he's seeing Mikey.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

Okay. So I would ask her to come in at least a month, like, four times. Maybe like once a week, or it could be, like, two weeks and then, like, twice during that Oscar week. The reason why is because what I do is I. Like, what I do is just I reprogram. I retrain the muscle to do what it needs to do, what it's supposed to do. And for me to kind of make that happen, a her and her psyche has to trust what I do. And then once that connection happened, and that usually happened, like, after first or second session. And then, because I only have a month, so like a third or fourth or fifth session, it's just all about me kind of like feeling her face working on a tighter side and try to make it even more. And people ask me, like, hey, do you do anything different before those event? Doing the same thing is the whole point. Like, you know, try not to do anything different. That's the whole point.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

So my goal is to. It's almost like prepping for the Olympics. Right. And then like, a day before the Oscar, a day before a huge event, because of your face is already, like, impeccable position that your face will be able to hold and perform on the day of the event.

[Kirby]

That makes so much sense. Okay, so you went on tour with Lady Gaga. This was when she was filming, Right? Exactly.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Five foot two, a star, a stars, bars. Okay. Or you've seen. You know, she's one of your, like, longtime clients. So when you're on set with someone like that or on tour, are you massaging their face every day?

[Jumi Song]

So as much as I can.

[Sarah]

That is my dream.

[Kirby]

I know.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Okay. So. And it's maybe not for, like, an hour, but it's like, you know, you're just looking at their faces and you're like, this is what needs to be done so that it's even glowing bright.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly. It can be like a 10 minutes or 15 minutes.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Jumi Song]

That's why I always say to people, like, just massage your face, Even like three minutes. But what's important that you do that every single day?

[Sarah]

The consistency is the important part.

[Jumi Song]

You just feel your face and understand how your face holds tension, where the tightness comes from. And for you to have that understanding of your face is the key.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

So how often are you massaging your own face? Every day, Twice a day?

[Jumi Song]

Once a day?

[Kirby]

At night?

[Jumi Song]

Mm. Okay. I like to do at night because that's when I have time after, you know, my kids go to bed, me sitting a bath. And then usually I massage my face, like, literally like maybe three minutes.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

You know, maybe five minutes. But do that every single day.

[Sarah]

I want to just go back quickly to the prepping for a big event. You mentioned, like, if Mikey was first coming to see you, and then you would say, I want to see her at least four or five times. You could do two times the week of the Oscars, essentially. I think that's awesome because it means that she's able to still go out and do all of the Oscar week things without worrying about her face looking a certain way.

[Jumi Song]

So that's the major. Exactly. That a lot of people ask me, like, oh, does my face look red or it's going to be red or irritated because I don't interrupt the ph balance of your face. What I do is I work on what you have underneath. I can do this just by using water and to change your skin or like facial. Almost like shape. Right. So that's why, you know, somebody like Lady Gaga, I work on her right before. You know what I mean? So it's really like, this is something. Again, we all can do this at home.

[Sarah]

What type of product are you using when you're massaging? Myself or on, like someone like Sarah at the studio.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly. So I love using sesame oil. Highly refined organic sesame oil. And then studio. I use cosmetic 27 series and then some of the Estee Lauder and Mayleenstrom. But again, it's. It's not so much about the products on the table.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Jumi Song]

Like, you can bring your product to me and I'll work with that product and then make your face looks so incredible.

[Sarah]

I was just curious about, like, if you need slip or something. Like, you. You don't want to just be like, raking your hands on the face. I was just curious about the, like.

[Kirby]

What her preference is.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah. So mostly, I'm sure you felt this. It's a lot of, like, a steady, deep pressure. Less to do with, like, efflage or, like, gliding.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

You know?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

So I, you know, I trained for more than 30, 35 European facial massage, and then, of course, I was trained in Japan, too. After learning all that stuff, what we are focusing on is one thing is to stimulate the flow underneath. Right. And what's the best way to do this is to really loosen the muscle inside. And how do we loosen the muscle in the shortest amount of time is to use deep tissue, you know, so that's why you feel a lot of my steady movement. I don't do a lot of frictions because that friction can cause inflammation, too.

[Kirby]

It's like a deep tissue massage for your face.

[Sarah]

I obviously have not gotten it yet, so this is helping. Putting it in perspective for me.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And also something that we talked about yesterday. I asked you. I'm like, should we be getting lymphatic drainage massages for. For our entire body? And you were like, that's just a marketing term. You should really just be getting, like, a deep tissue massage because that's releasing your limbs just the same way.

[Jumi Song]

Right.

[Kirby]

So I'm like, marketing scam.

[Jumi Song]

I don't want to knock anybody down. Jointed massage is incredible. However, like, when you get body massage, your lymph nodes being stimulated. You know what I mean? The muscles being loosened up. That's lymph nodes being activated.

[Sarah]

I love massage.

[Kirby]

I know. That's why every.

[Jumi Song]

Any type of massage.

[Kirby]

Kirby is gonna, like, fall in love with you, as everyone has. As I have, too. When you feel like she's really. I'll show you video, but it's literally she's just, like, holding it down.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see the video. I can't wait to get it myself.

[Kirby]

But also, I'm like, I don't want to record myself because I just want to enjoy this.

[Sarah]

No, no, Jumi. During the pandemic, when we couldn't go anywhere and we were in lockdown, I would watch massage videos and facial videos on YouTube as, like, to bring me peace. Like, I am, like, very much a massage person, so I am. I love this conversation.

[Kirby]

Yeah. But there's no, like, slapping involved. It's, like, so slow, and you're, like, just being really gentle, and it's very intentional.

[Sarah]

It's like, we're gonna work this muscle.

[Kirby]

Yes, exactly.

[Sarah]

Awesome.

[Kirby]

Okay, so can you walk us through.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Our listeners at home, viewers at home, how we can massage our faces at home.

[Jumi Song]

So what it. So, like, let me ask you, like, what. What would be the most concern area when you wake up in the morning, you look at your face, you go, puffiness.

[Kirby]

My sinus, I think. For me, or I don't know. What about you?

[Sarah]

For me, it's probably my eyes feeling heavy, and then like, maybe jowls, like this area.

[Jumi Song]

So the gel takes almost like a two, three steps. So the sinus. Let's just.

[Kirby]

Okay, let's do sinus.

[Jumi Song]

So the sinus is usually like, around this area. Right. So this. So this is where the puffiness happens usually. So what you want to do is just imagine if you have, like, a shape of, like, a triangle back underneath right here. Right. And that's where you want to target. And when I say target, you're just pressing and release. Press release, press release. And then you do that a couple times.

[Kirby]

That's it.

[Jumi Song]

And then, of course, masseter is so important. Right. So the gel, this has to be loosened first.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

Okay. This and this are, like, almost like siblings.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

Right. In order for this to drain, this has to be loosened.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

And the masseter, too. So there. There is. If you feel your masseter and cheekbones, and there is this, like, indentation. It's like your finger kind of like slip in. So that's where the masseter almost like, starts.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

Right. And you again, press and release. And then you glide your fingers. Press release, press release, press release.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay.

[Jumi Song]

You really want to cover from the beginning to the end.

[Sarah]

All the way down.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly, exactly. So, like this, this area.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

Right.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Jumi Song]

You feel your masseter like this. You want to cover the entire area. So whether it requires four fingers or three fingers, you want to get in there. Exactly. Press, press, press. And sometime you can press this way, too, going up.

[Kirby]

And there's no better tool than your fingers. I was like, what do you think of, like, you know, the facial massagers and Gua sha? She was like, you could use the cap of, like, your moisturizer massager. Oh, okay.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

She's like, if there's a will, there's a way.

[Kirby]

But mostly just you just need your fingers.

[Jumi Song]

Fingers. And then, like, if you have a very, like, you know, like your favorite Gua Sha tool, and you must use that tool. Just do that.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

But to make sure that when you're done, put that on the side. Feel it. You have to be able to feel what you're feeling.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

You know?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Jumi Song]

And your fingers. Remember what your face felt like before versus today and versus tomorrow.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

You know, and then what about Kirby, your eyes? She said like, I.

[Jumi Song]

So it's. It's usually this is where the tightness starts, you know, so what you want to do is you want to press up.

[Kirby]

Right here.

[Jumi Song]

And I love. I love doing this when I'm cleansing my face.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

So like, just press.

[Kirby]

There's like always so much pressure here.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly, exactly. Because it's so sore. Right.

[Sarah]

So tender doing that now.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly.

[Kirby]

Ouch.

[Jumi Song]

Just. Just. Yeah, just. Again, press release, press release. Press and release. And you can do the same on the middle and on the crease.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

Exactly, exactly.

[Sarah]

And then how long would you suggest. You said a few times. But like, time wise, should we be giving, you know, our listeners a. Like two minutes, three minutes?

[Jumi Song]

I would say. I would say three minutes.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

But if you don't have three minutes, one minute is fine.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Jumi Song]

You know, I don't want people to become too obsessive and instead of to do like 10 minutes, 30 minutes. Because it can cause nerve damage too, you know, like, longer doesn't mean better.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jumi Song]

Like I said, it's. Consistency is the key.

[Kirby]

We all have to go home at night, everyone.

[Sarah]

I can't wait to take off my makeup and do this. Yes.

[Jumi Song]

Press.

[Kirby]

And it really is just like it feels like you're connecting with yourself. Because when are you actually. Like when we're doing our makeup, we've got brushes, whatever. It's like really quick, but this is very intentional. And then you're also breathing like it's like you're meditating.

[Jumi Song]

So that's where. If I can talk to you about. My grandma used to sit on a makeup chair and just massaging her face 10 minutes every day. Like, I just remember watching her from behind and she didn't have a lot of time, but she always sat on a chair in front of same mirror, 10 minutes at 8:00 and just massaged her face. She passed when she was 86. In a Buddhist culture, body comes back overnight after their lives are gone. And then I did makeup on her skin and I remember touching her face right. If she was 86 and this was already I was in the skincare industry, her skin was just so happy and content. And I was like, wow.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Jumi Song]

That skin that my grandma had, that's something that we should be, you know, aspire to have when we are 80 or 70.

[Sarah]

Happy skin.

[Jumi Song]

Yeah, exactly. So that connecting to yourself, like you said, is so important because skin as you know, it's connected to our eyes and brains and mouth and all the sensory memories. Right. So just take care of it. Use your fingers and use your time.

[Kirby]

Amen. Okay. Thank you so much, Jim, for coming. Where can we follow you and find you? And if, you know, someone comes to LA and they want to see you, where can they find you?

[Jumi Song]

My social media is jumiesong. And yeah, you can just take us in this email, you know, infoimisong.com and it will be here.

[Kirby]

She's very, like, secretive about the location because her clients love that it's like under very nondescript.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So you have to email and make an appointment to find out where she is.

[Jumi Song]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Jumi.

[Jumi Song]

Thank you for having me.

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