Book Club: Sisterhood of Dune

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast – Episode Summary: Book Club: Sisterhood of Dune

Podcast Information:

• Title: Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast
• Host/Author: Lore Party Media
• Episode: Book Club: Sisterhood of Dune
• Release Date: February 28, 2025

Hosts: Abu and Leo

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Introduction

In the February 28, 2025 episode of Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast, hosts Abu and Leo delve into Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson's novel, Sisterhood of Dune. This episode marks a critical examination of the book within the expansive Dune universe, originally crafted by Frank Herbert. The hosts set the stage by acknowledging their limited familiarity with the book but express intent to thoroughly dissect its content.

Leo introduces the episode with enthusiasm:
Leo [00:38]: "Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe."

Book Overview

Sisterhood of Dune, published in 2012, is the inaugural installment of the Great Schools of Dune trilogy. This series serves as a sequel to the Legends of Dune trilogy, set 10,000 years before the events of the original Dune novels. The narrative explores the galaxy's fragile recovery post-Butlerian Jihad, a war that eradicated all thinking machines—ranging from dangerous robots to everyday conveniences like Keurig machines.

Abu highlights the book’s alignment within the Dune timeline:
Abu [05:15]: "This story takes place shortly after a devastating war against the evil Terminator robots in Brian Herbert's universe."

Publication History and Reception

Upon its release, Sisterhood of Dune received a lukewarm reception from both fans and critics. Abu notes the scarcity of reviews from its initial 2012 release period, indicating the book failed to make a significant impact within the sci-fi community.

A relevant critique from Bill Compassair for FantasyLiterature.com is discussed:
Abu [07:33]: "The book doesn't avoid the problems of prequels, lacking big picture suspense and becoming too mechanical in connecting dots."

Kirkus Reviews echoed similar sentiments, praising the setup but criticizing execution:
Leo [07:55]: "Character and plot are beautifully set up, but the prose drones in a usual flat, affectless manner."

The hosts agree that while the universe Frank Herbert created remains intriguing, the sequel struggles to capture its magic effectively.

Plot and Characters

Sisterhood of Dune features a complex tapestry of characters and factions, some familiar to longtime Dune aficionados and others introduced by Herbert and Anderson.

Sisterhood Arc

The central focus revolves around the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood's attempt to awaken a second Reverend Mother—a feat that has only been accomplished once before. Valya Harkonnen, a member of House Harkonnen, is entrusted with the crucial task of managing the Sisterhood's clandestine computer systems, a risky endeavor given the presence of the Butlerian forces who vehemently oppose any technological advancements.

Notable Quote: Leo [08:26]:
"It's a good premise, good setup, falls flat, not super fun, but acknowledging, like, yeah, Frank Herbert wrote such a good book series. There's still elements of it that are fun."

Joseph Venport and the Spacing Guild

Joseph Venport emerges as a pivotal character, embodying the archetype of an unscrupulous business tycoon striving to monopolize galactic transportation. His actions and decisions drive significant portions of the plot, including a clash with the Butlerian factions.

Highlights:

• Venport seeks to expand his monopoly despite the Butlerians’ efforts to dismantle technology.
• His great-grandmother, Norma Senva, the first Spacing Guild navigator, assists him with her extraordinary abilities.

Butlerian Forces and Manford Toronto

Manford Toronto leads the relentless Butlerian forces, determined to eradicate any residual technology. His antagonistic maneuvers against Venport set the stage for inevitable conflict.

Abu expresses frustration with the character development:
Abu [27:31]: "Manford’s forces sweep across the Imperium blowing up old technology... leading to a collision course with Venport."

Vory and Atreides

Vorian Atreides, a war hero burdened with immortality, becomes entangled in political schemes that threaten his life and legacy. His interactions with House Harkonnen and eventual confrontation with his robotic siblings add tension to the narrative.

Anecdotes and Notable Moments

The hosts share humorous and critical observations about the book's content, highlighting perceived inconsistencies and over-the-top elements.

Examples Include:

• Character Quirks: Joseph Venport’s frequent mustache-twirling and exaggerated villainy.
• Lore Inconsistencies: Reverend Mother Raquela’s ability to access current events across the galaxy, undermining the established lore around Other Memory.
• Sales and Promotions: Unexpectedly humorous interludes featuring fictional advertisements for products like the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra and McDonald's.

Leo [17:23]:
"The best Capri Sun flavor."
Abu continues with laughter, highlighting the unwarranted product placements disrupting the narrative flow.

Final Thoughts and Reviews

The episode culminates in Abu and Leo presenting their scathing reviews of Sisterhood of Dune. Both hosts express profound disappointment, criticizing the book's plot structure, character development, and writing quality.

Abu's Review:

• Rating: 2 out of 10
• Key Criticisms:
  • Plot Weakness: Described as "incredibly dull" and "driven entirely by an incomprehensible series of events."
  • Character Development: Characters portrayed as one-dimensional, with motivations lacking depth and logic.
  • Writing Quality: Perceived as poorly executed, likened to "AI slop" due to repetitive and uninspired prose.

Abu [50:00]:
"This book sucks on basically every level... It is so painfully boring. It's incredibly time-consuming."

Leo's Review:

• Rating: 2 out of 10
• Key Criticisms:
  • Excessive Violence: Noted as unnecessary and discomforting compared to Frank Herbert’s original works.
  • Sexualization of Female Characters: Criticized for reducing female characters to their physical attractiveness without meaningful role development.
  • Lore Breaking Elements: Pointed out inconsistencies that undermine the established Dune universe.

Leo [63:01]:
"This book is unintentionally hilarious. I laughed out loud at how stupid a lot of it was. It is kind of sad. I was genuinely sad reading how stupid all of this is."

Despite their harsh critiques, both hosts acknowledge minor elements they found enjoyable, such as the antics of Joseph Venport. Nevertheless, they concur that the book fails to honor the depth and complexity of Frank Herbert’s legacy.

Abu [62:49]:
"I rest my case."

Conclusion

Abu and Leo conclude the episode by reflecting on their profound dissatisfaction with Sisterhood of Dune. They express reluctance to continue engaging with Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson’s works, hinting at a temporary hiatus from discussing their contributions to the Dune universe.

Final Remarks:

• Support and Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to support the podcast via Patreon and merchandising.
• Future Episodes: Indications of exploring other aspects of the Dune saga, potentially revisiting Frank Herbert’s original writings.

Leo [70:50]:
"Help spread the word of Wadib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify."

Abu [72:27]:
"I'm glad that we created a podcast about Dune and have been since January 2020."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Leo [00:38]:
  "Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune..."

• Abu [07:33]:
  "The book doesn't avoid the problems of prequels..."

• Leo [07:55]:
  "Character and plot are beautifully set up, but the prose drones..."

• Leo [17:23]:
  "The best Capri Sun flavor."

• Abu [50:00]:
  "This book sucks on basically every level..."

• Leo [63:01]:
  "This book is unintentionally hilarious..."

Final Rating

• Abu: 2 out of 10
• Leo: 2 out of 10

Both hosts strongly advise against reading Sisterhood of Dune unless one has a particular interest in critiquing it further. Their deep-seated disappointment serves as a cautionary note for fans considering expanding their Dune repertoire with this installment.

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Connect with Gom Jabbar:

• Patreon: patreon.com/gomjabbar
• Merch Store: gomjabbarshop.com
• Email: gomjabbarpodcastmail.com
• Social Media: Twitter and Instagram at @laurensquareparty

Closing Thought: "Whoever controls the podcast controls the universe." – A nod to the ever-expanding influence and reach of the Gom Jabbar podcast within the Dune fandom.

Transcript

[Abu]

Today on the show, we're finally diving into Brian Herbert's sandbox.

[Leo]

Oh, my God.

[Abu]

Lumps and all. Is that a dinosaur?

[Leo]

I sure hope it is. It's covered in sand, it's a little bit wet.

[Abu]

Just the grossest pee filled sandbox you can imagine. Not the fun sandbox at Cosi where you get to like build irrigation and streams and stuff.

[Leo]

Whoa. What?

[Abu]

Yeah, Cosi. Look it up, folks.

[Leo]

That sounds so much better than this book.

[Abu]

Foreign.

[Leo]

Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe. From Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. And today, alternate canonicity. My name is Leo.

[Abu]

And my name's Abu. And.

[Leo]

And today on the show, we are talking about Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson's Sisterhood of Dune.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

It's a book.

[Abu]

It's a book.

[Leo]

Have you read it? It's pretty. It's a book. Sure is a book.

[Abu]

I can't say I've read it cover to cover, but I did my homework. For today. Yes, we're talking all about the pretty cool novel Sisterhood of Dune, written by Brian Herbert, Kevin J. Anderson. We're gonna get all into the details of that novel, but before we do, let's take care of some very quick housekeeping, folks.

[Leo]

Indeed.

[Abu]

Obviously, today's spoiler warning is Sisterhood of Dune.

[Leo]

The book.

[Abu]

We read the book, we're gonna talk about it today, so make sure that you've read it too. If you're worried about spoilers, if you're not worried about spoilers and you want to just hear us kind of broadly explain it, talk about it, analyze it, honestly, I think that's fine too, because it's kind of like a very nothing burger of a book. You're not missing much.

[Leo]

Yeah, agreed. Now, as always, a huge shout out to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons. Brad Hutchins, Daniel Dion, Jonathan Lambert, Seth Redding, Greer. Fellas. What a crowd. What a cast of characters. I'm sure if Brian wrote a book about you, you'd all have these, like, fun little arcs. There'd be torture, there'd be intrigue, there'd be smashing of ships and murdering innocent people. But they'd be great books. They'd be great perks because they're based on you great people. So there you go.

[Abu]

That's right. And of course, our thank you extends to all of our patrons at every level. Truly, y'all build the foundation upon which this show runs. And in fact, we are recording this episode live on YouTube exclusively for our patrons. So that's an example of just one of the many perks you get for supporting this show. You will hear us throughout today's episode occasionally shout out somebody in the chat who has a great comment or read one of the lovely comments from the live viewers.

[Leo]

Indeed. Ben says, explain it to me, Dune Daddies, which you know, sure, sure, we're.

[Abu]

Here to do just that. And also a quick reminder, if you don't have the means to be a monthly regular supporter of the show, that's a. Okay. Check out the Buy me a coffee link in the show notes below. That's a place where you can just throw us a one time tip to show your appreciation and say thank you indeed.

[Leo]

Well, let's talk about this episode overview for today. We are going to be talking about the history of the book's publication and its reception. Then we're going to work through a very quick summary of this like 900 page book covering its characters. What happened? This book probably could have been 300 pages or maybe a text.

[Abu]

Yep.

[Leo]

So we're going to be going through the plot and characters and then we're going to wrap up by sharing our overall thoughts on the book. What we liked, what we didn't, that sort of thing. That's. That was the goal initially.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

There might be one. There might be more in one column than the other.

[Abu]

Yeah. A little more in column A than in column B. Some, I'd say. Okay. With the housekeeping and preamble out of the way, let's take a breather folks, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we are diving into all 9,000 of these pages. In this book.

[Leo]

Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details and private messages. McAfee helps stop them. Secure VPN keeps your online activity private. AI powered text scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly. And with award winning antivirus, you get top tier hacker protection. Plus you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage. All for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. Welcome back everybody. Hope you enjoyed your 9,429 minute break. Let's talk about Sisterhood of Dune. And as we said in the beginning, before we talk about the book and kind of what happens in the book and the plot and the characters, let's set the stage. Sisterhood of Dune the book was published in 2012.

[Abu]

Wow.

[Leo]

Written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson, and it kicks off the trilogy known as the Great Schools of Dune trilogy, which includes Sisterhood, Mentats of Dune, and the Navigators of Dune. And that trilogy is a sequel to the Legends of Dune trilogy. Right now, all of this, everything I've said takes place 10,000 years prior to the events of Dune and is focusing on that kind of tumultuous time following the Butlerian Jihad. We've gotten rid of all thinking machines, which in this universe are the like killer robots but also convenient Keurigs that are making you that perfect cup of coffee every time. This is that tumultuous era when the galaxy is still reeling from that bloody battle and trying to kind of find its footing and define a way forward. Basically.

[Abu]

Yeah, exactly. Now we jumped into our time machines and tried to travel back to 2012 just to get a sense of how was this book received? How was this book reviewed in the literary and sci fi communities? Turns out it was received poorly by fans and critics alike. In fact, it was quite difficult to even find reviews from 2012. There's other reviews over the years, but I wanted to find what the reception was when the book came out, you know, when it had the biggest marketing push. And there's like, honestly, not that many. It doesn't seem like this book made a splash at all in the sci fi worlds or the book reading communities back in 2012, but we did find a couple. So here's an example of a review from Bill Compassair for FantasyLiterature.com Bill, in his review, touches at one point on the issues with prequel storytelling. Quote There are always several potential pitfalls in prequels. One is that the big picture suspense is a bit lacking, as we know where much of the story ends up. The other is that the books become too much of a connect the dots mechanical adding up of the steps required to get us where we know we're going. I can't say the book avoids either of these problems. The stop off on Arrakis, for instance, feels especially detached and perfunctory end quote.

[Leo]

Yeah, I'd say that nails it. That feels right. Now, you also found this review from Kirkus Reviews. Yep, and this was very funny. The overall package of this is very funny to me. So Kirkus Reviews liked the setup, but felt that the execution left a lot to be desired, right?

[Abu]

Yep.

[Leo]

This is the quote. Characters and plot are thus beautifully set up. The timing is precise, alas that the prose drones in the usual flat, affectless manner, while the characters, for the most part, lack personality and distinction. McDoon, sure. But the universe conceived by Frank Herbert is so vast, complex and fascinating that the magic lingers. And even Herbert Anderson detractors will be hard put to resist the allure. End quote.

[Abu]

Wow.

[Leo]

So, yeah, it's kind of. It's good premise, good setup, falls flat, not super fun, but acknowledging, like, yeah, Frank Herbert wrote such a good book series. It's still. There's, like, elements of it that are fun.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And it's going to be hard not.

[Abu]

To resist that which I thought was even more savage.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

They're complimenting Frank in a review of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson's book.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Well, Frank wrote such an amazing series. Like, how could you possibly botch it so badly? It's fine. It's kind of the vibe I got.

[Leo]

From this review, which I thought was fair. That's kind of some background about the book. Let's talk about who the book is about and the kind of, I don't know, major players that we're going to be meeting in this story.

[Abu]

Yeah, let's dive into the story. So there's a pretty familiar cast of characters and factions. If you've read Frank Herbert's Dune stories, you will pick this up and immediately recognize basically everyone. So first up, we have House Corrina. They are in this story at the beginning of their 10,000 year galactic rule. We also have Venport holdings. This is maybe a new faction you might not know of, but that's because this is just the fledgling version of what we will eventually know as the Spacing Guild. So Venport is attempting to, at the moment in this story, capitalism its way into a monopoly on transportation, which we know in 10,000 years it will succeed in doing so.

[Leo]

Right. Yeah.

[Abu]

We also have the Butlerian forces.

[Leo]

Sure, okay.

[Abu]

Who are hunting down remnants of the evil robots. Again, this story takes place shortly after a devastating war against the evil Terminator robots in Brian Herbert's universe. And the Butlerians are fanatics in this story. They not only destroy remnant robot technology all across the galaxy, but they also like to just kind of randomly kill anyone they perceive as tech sympathizers. People who are still holding on to the old ways of using technology.

[Leo]

This is a familiar pattern. Right. Like they. They kind of shift the goalposts as they need to, to serve their own purposes. Very frequently people go, aren't you using technology? And they go, no, no, no, no. It's necessary For. For us to use. But.

[Abu]

Right. Which could be interesting. Exploring fanaticism is a fascinating topic.

[Leo]

That would have been very cool if we're in the book. Yeah.

[Abu]

We also have the Mentat School. That's a familiar name for anyone who's familiar with Dune. Currently, the Mentat School is also very young. It has recently been founded by Gilbertus Albans, who we have talked about in our History of Mentats episode.

[Leo]

It's true.

[Abu]

Daniel makes a great comment in the chat. Daniel says these books are basically inscrutable without reading the first trilogy. And I felt that throughout this whole book. I have not read that. But Larry trilogy. That comes right before this. So, so much of this book I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Why are you referencing a thing I've never heard of before? It was really annoying. Anyway, let me finish this list of characters. We also have House Harkonnen and House Atreides. Obviously, House Harkonnen is currently stuck on this shitty planet Lankaveil because they have fallen out of favor with the rest of the Imperium because of some shit that went down at the Battle of Khorne. Again, in the books that came before this, that this book never explains something about. They fled the battle and then Vorin Atreides released some sort of Kendrick Lamar diss track against them.

[Leo]

And now they not like us.

[Abu]

Now, House Harkonnen is not the power player it once was. Speaking of Vorine Atreides, he is the only Atreides we come across in this book. And we'll have more to say about him later. And finally, what I thought was actually maybe the only interesting parts of the book we have the Sisterhood. And the Sisterhood's primary goal throughout this book is to awaken another Reverend Mother. So far there is only one Raquel. And they are unable to recreate that process. Obviously, as we know 10,000 years from now. Reverend Mothers exist. They do that process pretty regularly. Here we see the origins of how they go about that.

[Leo]

Yeah. So there's our cast, Right. We've got House Corrino, Spacing Guild, Fledgling State Butlerian Forces, Mentat School, House Harkonnen and the Sisterhood. And that one Atreides guy. Now getting into the plot of the book. Yeah, there's basically like four, maybe three and a half plots that happen. Half being the Atreides guy, but we'll talk about that. And these plots are all kind of running concurrently. So it is like these are kind of three thrusts that are happening all at the same time. Sometimes they kind of like brush up against each other, sometimes they're a little bit interwoven, but there's not a lot of causality. It kind of just, they're just happening. And this is, I think, the easiest way to summarize this book without getting bogged down into like going chapter by chapter. Actually, as a fun reminder, I do have that cursed chapter by chapter summary of this book on our Patreon as well. So if you want kind of a one or two sentences describing every chapter of the book, it's there on Patreon.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's very funny.

[Leo]

Well, let's kick it off with the Sisterhood arc. Arguably again, probably one of the most like richest and most interesting pieces of this world building.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

So starting with the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood, they have failed to produce a second Reverend Mother. And rumors are starting to spread among this Rossic based sisterhood in school for young women that the Sisterhood is actually keeping their breeding records on computers. On a computer system. Super illegal. Especially with Butlerian forces out there murdering anybody who's doing this. This is a. Has to be a very closely kept secret. Now, Reverend Mother Rakella, the only awakened Reverend Mother and the founder of this school, brings Valya into her innermost trusted circle. So this is Valya Harkonnen. She was recruited. She has joined the Sisterhood. She has her own motivations. She wants to restore the name of House Harkonnen. But Reverend Mother Raquel recognizes Valya's great potential, trusts her and says, I'm actually going to give you an incredibly important task. And that is not only help me manage these computer systems, this illegal thing that no one can know about. I'm trusting you.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Also the sister of the Emperor himself, Anna Corrino has been like fucking a cook in the, in the castle. And no one likes that. So they're like go to boarding school and they're sending, they're sending her to the Sisterhood. So Valya Harkonnen has to play babysitter. But of course, Valya's like, I'm gonna become friends with her so that she brings me with her to court when she, you know, goes to court and all that, right? So Voli is given that task, befriend Anna. And at that same time that Anna's coming to them to Rossic, there is a returning Bene Gesserit Sister Dorotea. And Dorotea was sent to spend time with the Butlerians. Kind of fell into believing everything that they believed was sort of won over by the anti machine fervor. And so she hears of these rumors, these rumors of computer machines, and she starts looking into them and investigating them. When she's back on Rossik, enter a new recruit, a Butlerian sympathizer and friend of Dorotea named Ingrid, who actually discovers the computers. So this is a Butlerian sympathizer sees the computers and Valya has to kill her in order to keep Raquel a secret and to protect the Sisterhood, basically. Now, after conveniently and fully randomly, against literally astronomic odds, Dorothea finds Ingrid's mangled, shitty body out in the. In the jungle. She tries to get her buddy, her best friend and trusted confidant, Valia Harkonnen, because she's got no barometer on who should be trusted. She tries to get Valia to take a new formula that she's made. And she's pretty confident this is going to awaken them as the newest Reverend Mothers.

[Abu]

Hell yeah.

[Leo]

In order to, like, usurp Reverend Mother Raella. But at the last second, Valia backs out, goes, you know, turns halfway to camera, throws the pill past her open mouth and goes, gulp. I swallowed it. And then, yum, yum. That sure tasted great. Ooh, strawberry kiwi. What a great choice.

[Abu]

The best Capri sun flavor.

[Leo]

The best. I'm, you know, hands down after that moment of violence, stabbing the packet, you get that sweet, sweet relief. But nevertheless, Dorothea awakens as the second ever Reverend Mother in history. Insane, wild stuff.

[Abu]

Dorote doesn't stop there, though. She then goes on to awaken like a dozen more Reverend Mothers now that they've cracked the code. Specifically sisters who are anti raquela and sympathetic toward the Balerion views. Basically, we're seeing a schism form within the Sisterhood. We have on Dorothea's side, Reverend Mothers with her that she's awakened, that are now going to act against Valia and Raquela and the OG Bene Gesserit, who are using the computers for their breeding records.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Dorothea, in fact, approaches Emperor Salvador Corrino. We'll talk more about him later. In the hopes of basically resetting the Bene Gesserit. Right? You help me. I need to purge the Bene Gesserit and hit the big old red reset button. Anna, by the way, Anna Corrino. Don't forget about her. Sister of the Emperor. She stole one of the pills that Dorodea gave to Valya, one of these poison pills, and takes it and falls first into a coma and then awakens on the other side with Something akin to savant syndrome.

[Leo]

Sure, yeah.

[Abu]

Now, Salvador Corrino, the emperor, if you'll recall, his health hasn't been great. This whole book, there's all these like fucking chapters dedicated to how big of a headache he has or whatever. And he has tapped the head of the SUK school, named Dr. Zoma to be his personal physician. He wants the best of the best. Get me the head of the Suk School.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

She, by the way, is ex Bene Gesserit. And now we see where sort of these two plots intersect. And Raquela realizes that if Salvador has children, the universe is fucked. We basically need to make sure that this guy doesn't have any heirs to the throne in order to ensure the future of humanity. So, hey, Dr. Zoma, you used to be one of us. Now you're this guy's personal physician. Can you just sterilize Salvador Corrino for us? Thank you. Yeah, that's the plan. Now Salvador finds out about this, is incredibly pissed, of course, not to mention that his sister has been poisoned, thrown into a coma, and now came out in a not great condition on the other side.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

So he moves against the Bene Gesserit, which, if you'll recall, is exactly what Dorothea wanted.

[Leo]

Right?

[Abu]

He organizes a fleet and he heads toward Rossek to face off against the Bene Gesserit. Valia and Rickella, in a panic, manage to hide any of the incriminating technology that they have been using here on Rakis. They get rid of the computers, but Salvador is clearly on a mission of vengeance and decides to gun down these Bene Gesserit mentats in this confrontation, which leads to this, like, brief and bloody battle where guns are used against psychic sorceresses.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

And you can imagine how that ended. Now Salvador officially shuts down the sisterhood after this battle and only allows Dorothea's sisters, again the ones that are loyal to the Butlerian viewpoint, to come and serve at court. Seemingly, this is the end of the Bene Gesserit as we know them. The school is disbanded and the sisters are sent back to their respective homeworlds. Luckily, and to wrap up this act of the book, this sisterhood act of the book, luckily for the Bene Gesserit and for series continuity, we know they're not going anywhere. Joseph Venport, who we'll talk about shortly, he's in charge of again the Proto Spacing Guild. His wife Sioba, is also a Bene Gesserit.

[Leo]

Yes.

[Abu]

And so Venport secretly gives the planet Wallach 9 to Rakella and her remaining loyalists. And that's where the arc of the sisterhood ends. In this book, they've been given a new planet and have a potential path forward.

[Leo]

Sweet.

[Abu]

As we know they do. In 10,000 years.

[Leo]

Yeah, what a twist. It's happening the way we know it has to. Cool. Well, Arc two, our kind of second plot arc here is going to follow Joseph Venport and Venport Holdings. Now, Joseph Venport is sort of the archetypical immoral business tycoon. Whatever it takes, get it done. As long as my pockets are lined and my influence is secured, I'm feeling pretty good. And his agenda's packed. Like, he's all over the place. And of all the characters, he definitely has the most varied. Like, sometimes he's intriguing, sometimes he's making that choice. He's got a bunch of secrets going on.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

He's probably one of my favorite characters of the book, which is not a high bar to clear. But I like his. I like his.

[Abu]

I agree. Yeah, I agree. He's very bombastic too. You know, there's that chapter where he shows up in a Landsraad meeting and he's like, whoa, I declare. You know, he like, shits on the Butlerians. He's got a mustache that he's always twirling or something.

[Leo]

Twirling his mustache constantly.

[Abu]

He's kind of a character in a fun way.

[Leo]

Yeah. Non derogatory. He's a caricature. Now, he is across the board, he's setting up his monopoly, right. He wants his Venport holdings transportation company be the only one that anyone can trust for anything. He is combating the barbarism of the Butlerians. The Butlerians are trying to smash everything. And he's going, what are you trying to. You want us with fucking candles and shit? Like, what are you doing?

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And they're getting in the way of his profits and of his progress. And he's very in line with like, yeah, if I had a navigational system on my ship that helped me make a few extra bucks, I'd do it. Whatever, you know, capitalism's king. As long as I can make some money, I'm pretty happy.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Now, Joseph Venport, I mentioned already he has Spacing Guild navigators. Well, he has those because his grandmother, his great grandmother, excuse me, is the first ever navigator and her name is Norma Senva. And Norma Senva, the first ever navigator. This big mutated gross creature is saying, we need more ships, Joseph, and we need more navigators. But both requests have their complications.

[Abu]

Wow. Always. How many ships do we have, Joseph? How many navigators do we have? Never. How are you, Joseph?

[Leo]

How are. Happy birthday, Joseph. She's forgotten every birthday, but she's all. It's like anything special about today? What's special about today is I don't have enough shifts, Joseph.

[Abu]

And it's like we got to pump those numbers up. What are you doing, Joseph? Yeah, Joseph just wants a hug from his grandma.

[Leo]

He does. From her gross flippers. Her gross little flippers. He wants them around his back now mid book, Joseph's luck begins to turn. He starts getting some kind of good resources in his pool. One of this is a recently graduated top of the class student of the Mentat school, Drago Roget. And he very quickly becomes an indispensable asset to Joseph in port. He actually calculates where there is a giant field of robot ships, like hundreds of ships and potentially even a factory to make new ones out in space. And he's figured out where that is. And he brings that to Joseph and port as a. As a gift. Basically.

[Abu]

Super secret, no one else has ever found it.

[Leo]

Super secret, no one has ever found it. But earlier in the book he did tell Gilbertus Albans where it is. So there are two people in the universe who know where this shipyard is. Sure hope they don't cross lines at any point. Right, so this arc, we can say for now, ends with Joseph setting sail to this shipyard where of course he will. Lines will get crossed and they will. He will find someone else there as well.

[Abu]

That's right. Okay, so those are the first two arcs of the book. The sisterhood arc and the arc of Joseph Vanport in the Spacing Guild. We still have to talk about the Butlerians, who Venport will shortly face off against. And of course then we got to talk about Vory and Atreides. Hang tight. We're going to touch on both of those as we continue our synopsis and recap of this book in just a minute. Let's take a quick breather. We'll see you soon.

[Leo]

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more.

[Abu]

Squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Leo]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Abu]

Credit.

[Leo]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps.

[Abu]

Requires Google Gemini account. Results may Vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Leo]

The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses.

[Abu]

Including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Leo]

Welcome back everybody. Hope you enjoyed the break. And up next, we're talking about the Butlerian Arc, but this does mean talking about Manfred Toronto and.

[Abu]

Yep, go ahead, Leo Nose goes.

[Leo]

No, no, I did it. Yes. I wasn't ready. You gotta talk about him. Let's go.

[Abu]

Okay, fine. Okay. Let's talk about the Balerians and Manfred Toronto.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Okay. This guy likes blowing up ships. This guy hates technology. Manford Tyrandeo is the leader of the Belerian faction in this book and he is frankly the worst. Every time it cut to his chapters, I wanted to stop reading.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Manford's Belerians, as we've said, have been sweeping across the Imperium. They've been blowing up old defunct technology. They have been showing up at landsride meetings demanding that everyone declare they are anti technology and that they align themselves with the radicalist Butlerian views. They're just radicals, you know, they very much take the man of mind as holy mantra to an extreme and want to practically get rid of any and all technology in this galaxy. Yeah, post Balerian jihad. Now, throughout the book, as we mentioned, Manfred shows up at the Landsraad a lot and like bullies the Emperor quite a bit. And in fact, at one point in the story, he manages to just scare the pants off of Salvador Corrino enough to get warships. And through Gilbertus, he's able to get intel on this secret shipyard that Drago had figured out and that Joseph Venport and his crew are headed toward. So obviously we're headed for a collision course here between Venport and the Balerians. And the Emperor just gave Manford everything he wanted because he's a giant pushover.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Now, along the way, at some point in the story, some of Manford's folks, fellow Butlerians who are just roaming around blowing up ships and stuff, accidentally awaken Hylla and Andros, who are these two Terminator style killer humans who have machine strength, quote unquote, and they're basically just written as robots. They're basically Just Terminator style robots that have been in like cryostasis for a long time and have been accidentally awoken throughout the book. These two just kind of like randomly carve a path of death across the galaxy and intersect with a bunch of characters and kill and torture their way toward their brother Vory and Atreides, who they are apparently related to and who we'll talk about shortly. Continuing with Manfred and the Butlerians, a couple more things worth hitting on. Mansford's forces. They head to this secret shipyard, as we said. They confront Joseph Venport and a giant space battle ensues between these two forces. They come face to face. Venport and Drago Roget get there first and they take control of this shipyard. They begin working on a new space and guild fleet. Manford, Gilbertus and the Balerians arrive a week later. The battle kicks off. Venport and Drago manage to escape with their lives and thanks to some deus ex prescience nonsense and Normo Senua's like incredibly lore breaking abilities in which she can just randomly warp around the galaxy at will. Just teleport.

[Leo]

Yes, she can fully. And she does it all the time, multiple times. She like pops in, she's like, oh, there's a meeting on Chitin, I want to be there. And then is there. And then it's like give me ships and then leaves. And I genuinely think that they forgot they wrote that chapter because that chapter where she like pops up to the emperor and says, hey, you need to figure this shit out or things will go badly.

[Abu]

Yep.

[Leo]

I think that just never comes back.

[Abu]

It never comes up again.

[Leo]

It's never mentioned again.

[Abu]

She. She literally teleports like into the middle of supper, like everyone's at dinner or something.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

She pops up, threatens the Emperor with some shit and disappears again. And it's never addressed ever again in the book.

[Leo]

And it's also hinted that like the navigators and the way that VIN Port does what he does is like super secret. And like the spy. Oh no, he saw the yards where we're making navigate. So the fuck what? Your great grandmother keeps popping into fucking dinner time.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

All over the galaxy. It doesn't make any sense.

[Abu]

It's like it breaks the lore so much and it's so stupid, I just can't even. Anyway, at the end of the book, Venport, who has escaped this battle with his life, vows to wage all out war and against the Butlerians. It's time to stamp out these radicalists once and for all. And manford's forces, meanwhile, successfully get the Landsraad to vote in their favor, further entrenching their influence in the political power structures of this Imperium. So the Belerians aren't going anywhere without a fight.

[Leo]

That's true. Well, let's talk about the. Let's talk about the half plot, which is Vori and Atreides. And this is going to wrap up our summary of the story. But basically Vorian Atreides, he is human, he's an Atreides, but he was kind of the son. I don't know if he was birthed by them or just like enslaved by him, you know, Gilbert style. But the evil Simek General, Agamemnon, cool. Now Agamemnon gave him this. Forced upon him this torturous life extension thing that has made Vorian effectively immortal. He just will never die of old age. And he's been in a bunch of battles. He's kind of a celebrated war hero. And that's, that's his. That's like what you need to know about him. Basically. Now he is. He has retired and he's just enjoying life on Kepler where he's like married and settled down and he's had kids and everything. He decides to fuck up his own retirement by going to the emperor. He goes to Salvador and he goes, salvador Carino, you have to stop slavery, but only for my planet. And Salvador Carino's like, all right, but only if you fucking leave that planet. And you might be wondering why. Why does that happen? Why does that. Why is that an important footnote? And it's because Vorian treaties is very popular. Salvador is threatened by this war hero straight out of the history books who could very well claim the throne. So he's going, I need you to disappear so that people don't get any ideas. But all of this hinges on the fact, by the way, that he unnecessarily announces to the room, oh, yeah, I've been on Kepler this whole time, you know, Kep K. No, you're writing it down. K, E, P L, E, R. Yeah, yeah. That's where I live.

[Abu]

Right.

[Leo]

That's where I am. And only because he made that announcement does almost anything else happen.

[Abu]

That would be it.

[Leo]

So he had to say that in order to plot to happen, you know.

[Abu]

Exactly.

[Leo]

Great. Now he goes home, tells everyone the good news, but then decides, you know, I've heard the Fremen on planet Arrakis are very long lived. I'm very long lived. Maybe they've got some perspectives that they can share with me. So I'm going to go. I have to leave Kepler. I'm going to go to Arrakis. So that's where Vorian Atreides goes. Now, Vorian leaves Kepler just in time because right after he leaves, his robo siblings, Hyla and Andros show up. They torture and murder his wife and then they follow him to Arrakis and are the sort of like, unkillable, you know, horror movie trope they are, Jason, you know, never stopping, never being stopped until they're eaten by a sandwich. And then that's, that's the end of that little arc.

[Abu]

Amazing.

[Leo]

Now Griffin Harkonnen, brother of Valya Harkonnen and sort of the sharing the burden of like, resuscitating the Harkonnen name, is tipped off about Vorian's re entrance when he approached Salvador Corrino. He's tipped off, oh, Vorian's back. So he goes to Kepler looking for this Atreides to get his revenge for House. Harkonnen is in time for Vorian's wife's funeral and is like, well, this is not what I was expecting to find here. But he finds out, oh, Vorian's gone to Arrakis. Griffin goes to Arrakis and is just in time to get mugged. He gets all of his fucking money stolen. He gets bag over the head abducted and then rescued from a worm by Vorian Atreides before he's super unnecessarily killed by Hylla and Andros. Just as like a little whim, he's murdered. Terrible nice. Now, Vorian and Griffin had gone from, like, enemies to friends. They kind of had a buddy cop vibe right at the end. So after Griffin died, Vorian basically has his body shipped back to Lankaveil at great cost. Here's, you know, so you can give him a burial. He includes a note saying, we became friends. He's a great guy and it was really unfortunate he was caught up in this violence and was killed. And then everyone in House Harkonnen reads that note together and then all agree to ignore it fully. Valya Harkonnen, home after the Sisterhood was disbanded, sees Griffin's body, reads the note, ignores the note, decides, I need power in order to confront Vory and Atreides. So I'm going to take the poison and become a Reverend Mother. And she does. She takes the poison pill that Dorothea gave her, you know, whatever, months ago. And the book ends with that kind of exciting moment. And that's Sisterhood of Dune.

[Abu]

That's it.

[Leo]

That's it.

[Abu]

Wait, where does Vorian end up?

[Leo]

He's still on Arrakis at the very end of the book, and then he is still on Arrakis at the beginning of Mentats of Dune, and then he leaves Arrakis. Okay, his toe gets infected at the beginning of the next book. Is that good?

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

Do you like that?

[Abu]

Jesus Christ. Okay, so that's like a very vague and quick synopsis of this book. And if you. If you listened to all of that and went, what the fuck? Why are you both just listing things happening? Like, literally? That is the experience reading this book. Things just happen and continue to happen over and over and over again. And we had to sort of break up that summary by arc and take it like one group and faction at a time, because the book is like little three page chapters that just like jump between all of these things constantly in some sort of crazy attempt to make any of it interesting. But when you actually, like, break it down into its separate arcs, you realize that, like, basically nothing happens in any of them. Or at least so much of it is just, like left dangling in the next book as we talked about.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Super quick lightning round. Let's just hit on some anecdotes, some details that we didn't touch on in our summary that are just kind of worth acknowledging.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I think these are the things that we point at when people go, why do you have these opinions about the book? For instance, Vorian, when half of his village is, like, captured by slavers, he frees them by going to the slaver planet and then just buying them. And the slavers just continue being slavers, and he effectively just gave them a lot of money and then he, like, brings his people back and that's how he frees people from slavers.

[Abu]

Cool.

[Leo]

No moral lesson. No, Just buy the humans back and that's how you save them.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Yeah. No sort of deeper commentary about slavery, like humanity was just enslaved by robots. Would. Wouldn't slavery be like an abhorrent thing that all of humanity would be against? Because we've just experienced it under robotic rule for so many. No, none of that. No depth or nuance to any of that.

[Leo]

Well, he says some of that and then everyone else goes, no. And then they move on. It's like, you don't want to revisit that whole. Yeah, no. All right.

[Abu]

Wild. Insane. Okay. Another anecdote here is that Griffin's uncle and a shipment of whale fur are lost at one point in the Story in deep space because they flew Spirit Airlines. I mean, celestial transport.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Which is. The competitor is like, Venport's shitty competitor who he's obviously gonna out capitalism toward victory.

[Leo]

Yeah. Just. It's gone, oops, buy uncle buy stuff.

[Abu]

And they send some, like, shitty compensation to Griffin. They're like, here's.

[Leo]

Yeah, here's 30 bucks for your $35 check that you have to cash at this one specific bank chain. You're like, oh, thanks. It's an olive garden.

[Abu]

Yeah. Did you hear that Delta crash that happened this week? They're offering $30,000 to every passenger.

[Leo]

Wow.

[Abu]

I don't know if that's enough or not enough. Anyway, this is neither here nor there. Don't fly celestial transport, folks.

[Leo]

That's the point.

[Abu]

You're gonna get. Oh, my God, your family.

[Leo]

$35. Another anecdote, quickly. We mentioned the sorceresses of Rossic attack Emperor Salvador Corino with mental mind blasts. They're literally like, pew, pew, pew. With their brains. And he's like, okay, stop that. And then has them shot with guns. And they are killed by the guns. And I am just floored because, like, what the fuck is any of this? This is so wild.

[Abu]

Right? Why did any of that happen? Okay, Anna Carino at one point. I forgot about this.

[Leo]

Yeah, right? That's why we do this. Yeah.

[Abu]

She, at one point, in her training with Valia at the Sisterhood, figures out that she can command these bugs. There's like an ant farm installation at one point. Like, it's some sort of, like, allegory for the randomness of human nature or whatever. And Anna Carino can just, like, stare at the ants really aggressively and make them build their farm in a specific way.

[Leo]

Yeah, it's like a. It's like a sorceress power, but she does it in a day. No one's ever seen this. It's like, what? What? Okay, sure. We mentioned how Joseph Venport killed the head of Celestial Transport, AKA Spirit Airlines, right? We did not mention that. He does so by tying him to the front of a ship. Like a. Like one. Like one of those mermaid figurines on a ship and putting him out in space so he, like, freezes and dies strapped to the front of the ship. And Vin Port's like, 20, twisting his mustache like. Yeah, this is fucking rad. Honestly.

[Abu]

This is why Vent Ford is kind of fun. Like, he's doing crazy shit like this.

[Leo]

He's a wacky guy, very unserious.

[Abu]

He's a very unserious character, but it's like the only redeeming part of this book.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Okay, here's a lore breaking thing I think we've touched on quite a bit. We touched on this during our coverage of the HBO show as well. Raquela, throughout this book has current events, things that are, like, happening right now in front of her or things that are not happening in front of her and happening, like elsewhere, confirmed to her by other memory. Yeah, like where do you. Where to even begin with how much that breaks the lore around other memory and how other memory actually functions? I guess in the way that Richelli uses it. It's like literally like a fucking subreddit that all the sisters can like go log into and share stuff on in real time because that's seemingly how it's used.

[Leo]

You know, Dorotea keeps downvoting all my comments.

[Abu]

Right. Too many memes in the other memory.

[Leo]

Reddit karma is negative now because Dorothea is such a troll. Yeah, it's. That's pretty bad. Here's another one. Gilbertus Albans makes a robot body for Erasmus the robot who's like, please let me kill humans. And he's like, all right, here's a body. And then Erasmus is like, yay, a body. And then walks into mud and then the body breaks, which is very funny. It's a very good moment. Also, starting in Mentats of Dune, there's like, dragons, like, like lizards. Big, big carnivorous, dangerous lizards fucking all over the planet. And I'm only now in this moment realizing they talk about being out in the wilderness around the school for this whole robot body getting stuck in the mud sequence. No mention of the swamp drakes that are. That are like such a pest in the next book.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Between the two.

[Abu]

An idea that maybe didn't occur to Brian and. Or Kevin.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Until the next book.

[Leo]

They finished this book and then they went, oh, you know what we should have done? Is it too late? It is too late.

[Abu]

More dragons.

[Leo]

Let's do it anyway.

[Abu]

Throw it in.

[Leo]

Throw it in.

[Abu]

Kevin, write it up. Send it to me. Okay. What else do we have on our list here? This is just a list of, like, stupid shit in this book, guys. This is fun. Yeah, let's see. Oh, Zoma. Remember her? Zoma is the ex Bene Gesserit who is now the head of the Souk school and actually gets. I think she gets murked in this book, right?

[Leo]

Yeah, like brutally tortured and murdered and.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah. Zoma is an ex Bene Gesserit because she got kicked out of the sisterhood years ago. For dealing drugs on this.

[Leo]

That's. That's pretty good.

[Abu]

But in, like, a good way. She wasn't dealing drugs on the side and, like, pocketing the money.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

She was dealing drugs on the side and putting it in the Sisterhood bank account, which is even lamer.

[Leo]

Oh, my God.

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

Plus, like, multiple times in the book, she has conversations with people. Like, Venport goes, you have the biological sample of Vorian Atreides. Give it to me and I will, like, pay off some of your debt. And she's like, okay. And then she has a conversation with Raquela, who's like, I need you to sterilize the emperor, and if you do so, I'll help you pay off some of your debt. She's like, okay. And then she dies and is tortured and murdered with no one having paid off any of her debt versus who's.

[Abu]

Going to pay off this debt?

[Leo]

The debt's unpaid. It's just. Oh, it's so much.

[Abu]

It's so dumb. Yeah.

[Leo]

I also. Yeah, finally, last bit here, Brian and Kevin are just obsessed the whole time about how, like, attractive Valia is. And there's this whole story about how she saved Griffin by saving him from the freezing water. She jumped in and saved him and then he saved her when she was nearly sexually assaulted by these, like, three fishermen. So he, like, because. Saved her.

[Abu]

Because she's so hot.

[Leo]

Because she's so hot. She's, like, so hot.

[Abu]

Right. And presumably, like, this is a flashback. So, like, when she's a kid. We're talking about a kid.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's another. That's a good point. That's another point.

[Abu]

Modern Valia, modern day Valley in this book is like 21, you know, early 20s.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

This is a flashback to when her. And when they were like, on Monkey Vale.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, it's that. It's a lot. I'll also say it fits into the pattern more broadly of, like, a lot of the women who are introduced. It'll be like, this is Coba. She's like, face nine, body nine, like, super bangable.

[Abu]

Super.

[Leo]

And then it'll be like. And then this is this Fremen guy. And then there's. And then there's this woman. She's face 10, body 10, super 11.

[Abu]

I want to grab that in the middle of doggy. It's like, bro.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah. And then there's this guy. It's like. It's wild.

[Abu]

Yeah. Have you seen that? I don't know if it's a Twitter account or subreddit. That's like women written by men.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And it's examples, like really awful examples of like, men being unable to write a woman without talking about her big boobs or whatever. Like, Brian and Kevin cannot introduce or write about a woman in this story without mentioning in some passing sentence her attractiveness.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

It's very off putting.

[Leo]

Yeah. It happens so disproportionately because there are a couple of times when they're like, and that sister's kind of fat. And it's like, okay, thank you for that. Thank you for that, that information. It's so helpful.

[Abu]

Wow. Okay. That's the synopsis of this book. And just a quick lightning round of just like, stupid shit that happens. Obviously, the whole book is kind of like this. Let's take another breather. We want to wrap up this episode by just taking a step back and sharing our more cohesive thoughts. Like, we've kind of just been tearing this book apart as we go. But we did kind of sit down and put our thoughts together. In one final segment, we will talk about our thoughts and our review of this book after a short break. So stick around for that. Still getting around to that fix on your car. You got this on ebay. You'll find millions of parts guaranteed to fit. Doesn't matter if it's a major engine repair or your first time swapping your windshield wipers. Ebay has that part you need ready to click perfectly into place for changes big and small, loud or quiet. Find all the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. But you already know that. Ebay. Things people love. Eligible items only.

[Leo]

Exclusion supply. Get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's. Now let's break it down. My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions and a sesame seed bunch, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks. Sound good?

[Abu]

I participate in restaurants for a limited time.

[Leo]

Welcome back, everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break. Okay, let's wrap up this conversation about sisterhood of Dune. Yeah, and I'll kick it to you first, Abu. Okay, let's just talk final thoughts. We've read this book. What did you think? How'd it go? Scale of 1 to 10? Are we talking like an 8 out of 10, a 9 out of 10?

[Abu]

Or how bangable is this book?

[Leo]

Are we face very bangable pages? 10. The smell, the font. 8. The font, the kerning.

[Abu]

The kerning on the font. I will have to give a six.

[Leo]

You know kerning's a six.

[Abu]

Okay, let's talk about this book. Big picture thoughts. Yeah, this book sucks on basically every level is the simplest way I can put it. And what's kind of sad is that this would be true. That statement would be true even if this book had nothing to do with Dune.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

But it is especially true because it does have everything to do with Dune. It's horrible. This book is like. I'm kind of shocked by how horrible. Like, I've always been kind of of the camp. Like, oh, Brian, book's not my flavor. I've read a couple of things here and there. I've read snippets. It's whatever. I probably won't check out a whole book now that I have checked out a whole book. Like, my God, I don't think I've been shitting on Brian enough, and I maybe need to go harder in the pain. I have literally nothing kind to say about this book. It is so painfully boring. It's incredibly time consuming. I had a difficult time even finishing it. I got through like 60, 65, 70% of it, and then just fucking read a summary of the rest because I just couldn't anymore.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Because it is literally like 500 plus pages. And the story itself, the meat that's there, is like 250 pages worth of stuff. It's wild.

[Leo]

Yeah. Easily could be a third the length with Nothing Lost.

[Abu]

Nothing Lost. It rehashes so much stuff over and over again. To get into some of my specific complaints. This book is driven entirely by its incredibly dull plot, if you can even call it a plot. It's devoid of all logic, emotion, depth, conviction. It has nothing to really say or stand for. It is literally a series of words written in a mostly intelligible order to convey a series of events that took place in this universe for, like, no reason.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And honestly, here's what I truly think. If this book had been released in 2025. Yeah, I'd be out here accusing it of being written entirely by ChatGPT, because the entire thing reads like AI slop. It reads like the worst shit that AI currently churns out.

[Leo]

That is so true. That is so true. Yeah, it's awful.

[Abu]

And look, somebody out there might be listening and going, damn, Abu, you're going too hard. You're being too mean about it.

[Leo]

You haven't.

[Abu]

You haven't brought any specifics to the table, bitch. I'm here with receipts. I brought receipts. You want specifics? I'm ready. Okay. Here are some passages in the book that I highlighted and the notes that I wrote down alongside These passages quote, Dr. El Chan, whose race had been much persecuted both fairly and unfairly, was terrified. End quote. Dr. El Chan is Ptolemy's lab assistant who got killed by the Butlerians.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

When is persecution fair?

[Leo]

Yeah, when?

[Abu]

Yeah, I don't care that Dr. El Chan is a Tlulaxa or whatever. Do we think Brian and Kevin looked up the definition of persecution?

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Persecution is inherently unfair. Why the fuck would anyone write this sentence?

[Leo]

It's like they wanted to say they were held accountable for shit the culture did. But, like, that's not what persecution is.

[Abu]

That's not what persecution is. You used the wrong word in the.

[Leo]

Sentence, both fairly and unfairly.

[Abu]

Okay, moving on. Another thing I highlighted in this book, though it gave him considerable pause to seek vengeance against such an aged man, Harkonnen family honor trumped everything, including the ledger sheets and five year plans he'd been spending so much time on. End quote. This is Griffin Harkonnen deciding he's going to leave Lankaveil and everything he's worked on his whole family behind and go hunt down this legendary Atreides war hero just because his sister saw him on Salusa and said, hey, he's alive. Go hunt his ass down.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

This is like the most paper thin motivation for Griffin to do literally anything in this book. And I do not buy that this is why this kid would leave his life behind and go and try and kill someone. Yeah, kill someone.

[Leo]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

Harkonnen family honor trumped everything. What are you talking about? What honor? It makes no sense.

[Leo]

And we get from Valia, her internal monologue is, like, rich with hatred and vengeance and violence. But Griffin doesn't have any of that. So you've also, like, built a character, you've written a character who just. Even this doesn't make sense for who Griffin is.

[Abu]

No.

[Leo]

Or he would be in that. Like, oh, I'm going to seek him out and have a conversation with him and have him correct the record and not be like, I'm here to fucking kill him. You know? That doesn't make sense. And at certain points, this is where that initial review we shared at the beginning starts really ringing true. Every character sounds like. Every character. Griffin just sounds like Valya half of the time that he's doing stuff.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And it doesn't really make any sense. No.

[Abu]

Makes no sense. Also, I'm like, throughout this whole book. Again, I didn't read that other trilogy that comes before this one. Is Valya and Griffin's relationship ever explained more than this?

[Leo]

I Think it's just the flashbacks because I think Valia is specifically this book. So I think we only get their relationship in this book.

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

Which is like the him saving her from sexual predators and her saving him from the icy waters of white people training together.

[Abu]

We have no real sense of their relationship. If my sister texted me and was like, hey, I need you to kill a guy, I'd be like, girl, calm down.

[Leo]

Start with happy birthday. Come on.

[Abu]

Damn, it's my birthday. Anyway. Okay, moving on. Here's another quote. At least Kepler would be safe. Vore's loved ones would be safe. End quote. This is after he negotiates some fucking deal with the Karino Emperor to keep his family from being enslaved again.

[Leo]

Right?

[Abu]

Except I don't give a shit. I'm sorry, like, why do I give a shit about Kepler or Vor's quote unquote, loved ones, his neighbors and his family who barely get named. There's like two family members that get named. His wife and his daughter.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

There's zero establishment of any emotional stakes for literally anything Vorine Atreides does in this whole book. And it's just. It's insulting. Like, it's an. It's insulting as a reader to be told I should care about this when the book doesn't even try to get me to care about this.

[Leo]

Not to mention it didn't even have to happen because again, if he hadn't said, by the way, everyone, Kepler K E P Kep. Yeah, Kepler. That's where I've been. If he hadn't said that, it just wouldn't have been an issue. And even Hyla and Andrews find him because there are somehow recordings or reports of him and his speech that they, like, see. And I'm like, how is any of this possible without any computers? Who's recording and uploading to where? How? There's multiple mentions of characters in this book going. I looked up this thing and found a picture of someone of what they might look like so that we know who to tr. And I'm like, right, the book.

[Abu]

The book acts like the Internet exists, but does it like it very much doesn't?

[Leo]

You've got Manford, Toronto killing, shutting down.

[Abu]

Your VPN as soon as you fire that up.

[Leo]

He killed a man over prosthetic legs. He doesn't let the Internet exist.

[Abu]

God damn it. Okay, I have just a couple more quotes, folks. I'm like, my blood pressure is through the roof at this point.

[Leo]

Your Apple Watch is going to call emergency service, right?

[Abu]

My Apple Watch is going to be like, the ambulance is going to show up at the door. No, no, sir, officer. I'm just talking about. Don't worry about it.

[Leo]

And he was like, oh, God, that sucks.

[Abu]

Hop on the mic, officer. Let's fucking go. Okay. Quote Gilbertus said, and I am pleased by our 70 years of success starting a decade after the fall of the synchronized empire. End quote. He's talking to Erasmus, who already fucking knows all of this. Yeah, yeah, we know you started the mentat school. We know about the synchronized, bro. I'm Erasmus. I raised you, bitch. Like, what are you talking about? This is the kind of dialogue that's in this book. People like talk in exposition.

[Leo]

I love that so much. And I am pleased by our 70 years of success, comma, starting a decade after the LEO.

[Abu]

I'm pleased by where this podcast has gone, which we began in January 2020.

[Leo]

Yeah. It is now five years later, February of 2025.

[Abu]

Nobody talks like this. Who the fuck wrote this? I mean, we know who wrote this. Okay.

[Leo]

Quote.

[Abu]

The Reverend Mother had gone into the creche chamber where the newborns rested in their cribs. Without hesitation, Raquela removed all the labels from the babies, then moved the children around and dispatched every mother elsewhere, including Arlette, with instructions to spread the word about the Razak school across the Imperium. End quote.

[Leo]

What a sentence.

[Abu]

Imagine in your mind what I just described reading that paragraph. Yeah, this is where the Reverend Mother decides that mothers cannot know who their daughters are in the sisterhood. And she does so by, like, Looney Tunes swapping all the babies around. Yeah, I don't even know what to say there. All right, last one.

[Leo]

She does this. She does this for crowds on the street. She has, like, three babies. She takes the labels off and then swabs them around. And then you go, jeremy, then if you're right, you get to keep the baby. It's pretty sweet.

[Abu]

I. There's nothing to say like the. Anyway, okay, once more, one more, one more, one more. Okay, this one's great, folks. This is early on in the book. Quote. Salvador Carino was not having a good day. In fact, he could not recall the last day he'd considered even acceptable. Much of that was his own fault, since his phobias were excessive compared to those of an average person. But the ruler of the vast Imperium was not an ordinary person. Everything about him was supposed to be larger than life. While the emperor suffered for his concerns, he wished he could be as calm and even keeled as his brother Roderick. End quote.

[Leo]

His Phobias were excessive compared to those of an average person. I think that's just what excessive means.

[Abu]

What juvenile writing. What is this?

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

Like, this has the subtlety. Sorry, I'm, like, banging my mic around at this point. This has the subtlety of, like, hitting us over the head with a brick. Salvador Corrido, he has phobias. He's sick. His brother Roderick is way cooler. Dunks on him every time on the court.

[Leo]

So hot.

[Abu]

Yeah, he's so hot. He's. Roger Carino will take your girl and fuck your wife. The Salvador guy, he sucks. Like this. This is where I have to stop. And I'm gonna look right into the camera when I say this, okay?

[Leo]

Okay.

[Abu]

This is for everyone watching the Brian Herbert defenders out there who say the books aren't bad. Justify this writing to me, this bit about Salvador Carino, I need you to look. Look right into the fucking camera. I need you to justify how you can read this. This book is full of shit like this. How you can read this and go, it's not Frank Herbert, but it's not bad. This is insulting. This is bad. This is awful. You know, tweet at me, write in whatever. I'm opening a can of worms here. But I need to know how you can read this and go, this is fine. Okay, I'm done. I need to let my blood pressure cool. So obviously there's, like, countless more examples. I had, like, hundreds of highlights and notes in this book, all just shitting on it. But in short, this book is unintentionally hilarious. I laughed out loud at how stupid a lot of it was. It is kind of sad. I was genuinely sad reading how stupid all of this is. It's a book that feels like it's written by an AI that was only and exclusively trained on book reports written by fifth graders. And honestly, like, this book is a fucking disgrace to Frank Herbert's original universe. Like, it's insulting. God damn, it's sad. It's just so sad. It's stupid. And honestly, like, I had my stupid McDon Happy Meal and it didn't even come with a toy, which is kind of the most insulting part of this book. Awful.

[Leo]

Wow.

[Abu]

I rest my case.

[Leo]

Yeah. So. So, like, an eight out of ten.

[Abu]

What about you? What about you? Sorry, I. I kind of got on my soapbox there.

[Leo]

You're fine.

[Abu]

What. What are your thoughts?

[Leo]

Appreciating your soapbox. You know, after your scathing review, I. I think my olive branch to the Brian fans is gonna seem like high praise. So I do want to start by saying everything you've said, I. I basically agree with. I may honestly be more kind to this book now because I've had to read it like, three times over the last year, and I've spent a lot more time with, like, the really disappointing parts. And so they're less. Like, the wounds are less fresh. Right? Like, they've all scabbed over. And now I'm just like, yeah, this sucks. And it's boring mostly. But, like, I can kind of reflect on more of the maybe what got me excited page to page and like, you know, whatever. So regarding things I didn't like, I'll keep this. I'll keep this pretty quick. There's too much torture and violence in this book. Like, I think if this were a different series, I'd give it a pass. I don't super love books that talk about, like, peeling. I don't know, peeling fingernails off and shit like that. Like, that just makes me uncomfortable. I don't love it. I don't. If there are books out there that you like that are like that, that's great, that's fine. But the thing is, this is Dune, and Frank's books don't have that. We even got to a. There's a portion in a book where someone's legs are cut with a lase gun and it talks about them being cut off, but it ends there. That's not the point. The point isn't the injury in the. In the wound. There's no celebration of the violence. There's no details, because the details don't matter. It's all driven by plot and reason and all of that. This is just like, introducing brutal violence and torture to the Dune universe. And I have to ask why? Because ultimately, like, do you think. Brian. Hi, Brian. Do you think that your dad's books were bad because they didn't have body mutilation? And what does that say about you? Like, I'm just. I'm so curious. It feels cheap. It feels like you're just like, shock, you know? I don't know. Edge. Lord shit.

[Abu]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Leo]

Now, another. We mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. A lot of descriptions of the women are, like, hinging on how hot they are, how bangable they are. And then disproportionately, the women are, like, murdered and killed and stuff for the guy characters to go off and do. Stuff like this happens in the house. The house series. The House trilogy with, like, oh, Shando. Lady Shando. In this book series, like, we have Dr. Zoma is killed and there's like, a few people who are just, like, killed for no reason. And you're like, oh, great, cool. Glad that that's happening. None of the characters really ever change.

[Abu]

This is a great point. Yeah.

[Leo]

Which is like, really? Again, comes to light as I read other books, I go, wow, it's so nice when a character, like, has to learn and adapt to new information they're given, and then they come out on the other side of that changed, but still themselves in that very human way. And we have none of that here other than the exact example of someone like Griffin going, you know, maybe I wasn't so wrong about you, Vory. And then his neck is snapped by Hyla and Andros and you go, oh. So you only introduce change when it becomes, like, bitter and sad. Like, this is the change is a way to make tragedy more tragic. Which, what is. What again? What is the takeaway here? Should we aspire to just be the same shitty people our whole lives and then the moment that we become good, we just get murdered unnecessarily after? It doesn't make any sense. And I don't like it. It's not fun. Everyone is a caricature, basically, from the beginning of when you're introduced to them to when they die. And then the writing is just rough. It's unintentionally funny. And when it's not unintentionally funny, it's boring. But I will say, here's the olive branch piece. If you out there loved this book or enjoyed this book, I will say I did enjoy pieces of the book. I don't think I enjoyed any of the pieces of the book as much as I did complaining about the book to you, Abu, and to my fiance and to various people in my life, anybody within arm's reach. I'm like, man, this book fucking sucks. Do you want to talk about it? And they're like, no. And I'm like, anyway, this is why I don't like it. But I will say there are things I can look back on fondly. As we mentioned, Joseph Venport as a character gets up to some shenanigans and he's. He's a fun time. Generally, I like being on familiar planets as long as there wasn't anything too fucking crazy happening. I like being in the Dune universe. And ultimately there's nothing Brian can do to take that away from me. You tell me, Kaitan. I get a little shot of serotonin, and that's. That's the Life I live. And overall, like, yeah, it's a big cast of characters. There's a lot. If you like the intrigue, there's intrigue. If you like violence, there's violence. If you like sexy stuff, there's some sexy. You know, it's like, whatever. There's a lot. It's everything. It doesn't do anything well, but it's all there. So that's, you know, that's one approach to writing, and that's fine. A lot of these are turning out backhanded. And then I will say I am, ultimately, I'm glad I read the book. I am also looking forward to reading more of Brian's books. Earlier, Daniel asked me if I'd finished Navigators of Dune, and I have not. But I do. You know, I'm going to get through more of the Brian books because ultimately, yeah, I don't want to shit on things I haven't read. But now that I've read it, I can be like, no, no, you're wrong. It's bad. It's a bad book. So anyway, that's my. That's my. Overall, there are elements of the book that I am glad that I've read and that I can kind of, like, speak to more confidently now. But on the whole, it really just affirmed the things that. Like the totally unnecessary naysaying that everyone says on the Internet anytime you, Brian Herbert, boo. Boo. I'm like, oh, come on, guys, that's unjustified. And now people are like brian Herbert books. And I'm like, well, we should probably start booing because those are pretty bad books.

[Abu]

Who said that?

[Leo]

Boo louder. Yeah, so anyway, that's my. That's my takeaway. I'd give it a solid two out of ten. It's not a one, but it's definitely not a three.

[Abu]

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Wow. I mean, the. The fun part of this for me was getting to, like, vent to you about it. You know, just, like, sending you screenshots of the horrible writing and, like, being like, oh, my God, she teleported into the dinner. What is happening here? You know? So I enjoyed the parts where I got to just vent about this book and talk to you about it. And this episode was fun. Doing this episode today was really fun. Okay, folks. Yeah, that's it, though. Those are our thoughts on Sisterhood of Dune by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson. Folks in the chat are asking if we're ready to tackle the Butlerian trilogy or Mentats or Hunters and Sandworms. Madison, John, Mick, I'm not. I'm pretty beat. After reading this book, I am excited to finish our Heretics of Dune. Read it through. We're coming in at the end of that book. I'm excited to prep for our chapter house read through. I think I'm going to need a break from Brian work for a while.

[Leo]

Yeah, I think also we'll get through what is left of Frank's writings. We'll talk about the things on the sides here and there as we have reason to. If the for instance, the Sisterhood HBO show touches more on plot that happens inside of Mentats, like maybe then it'd be a good reason to come back to Mentats. But overall it's definitely a certain brand of entertainment.

[Abu]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. When it's appropriate. When Dune Prophecy Season 2 comes out, which luckily is probably a year away.

[Leo]

Yeah, we got some time.

[Abu]

Okay, well that's it for today's episode. Thank you so much for joining us folks. Before we let you go, a couple of quick reminders. As always, the two best ways to support Gom Jabbar are to become a patron on patreon.com gomjabbar you get to join us for these live stream sessions and throw your comments in chat and get shout outs like some of the folks today. The other best way to support the show is to check out our merch store gamjibarshop.com buy yourself something cute. It's all Dune themed and a lot of it is really cute. So check out those links in the show notes and help keep the show running.

[Leo]

We have a comment zaptages I'd rather read Man Tits of Dune and we love to hear from you as you can tell us, enjoying your senses of humor. So email [e-mail] and send us your thoughts, your questions, your memes, your favorite out of context Brian Herbert passages that are worth laughing at. Whatever you want, send it to us gomjabbarpodcastmail.com we're always happy to get your.

[Abu]

Messages and I'm glad that we recorded this podcast today on February 20th at 12:48pm Eastern Time. I've enjoyed this excursion into the podcasting world in which we create a podcast about Dune and have since January 2020.

[Leo]

I, Leo Wiggins, do appreciate that you, Abu Zafar, record this with me for the last five years and hopefully for a few more and we'll see what happens in the future.

[Abu]

Yes, I do hope that androids don't walk into my studio door and murder me just as I have some character growth.

[Leo]

Yeah, seems pretty likely. I mean, it seems it's not in the weather forecast, but I think that's just because it's 100% likely.

[Abu]

Well, friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Wadib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And be sure to check out the other shows on the Lore Party podcast network on loreparty.com you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at laurensquareparty. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Path.