Dune: Prophecy Episode 2

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast – Detailed Summary of "Dune: Prophecy Episode 2"

Release Date: November 25, 2024

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Introduction

In the second episode of "Dune: Prophecy," hosted by Abu and Leo from Lore Party Media, the podcast delves deeper into the intricacies of the "Dune" universe, focusing on the latest installment from HBO's television adaptation. This episode not only summarizes the key events of the show but also provides insightful critiques and explores hidden lore Easter eggs for avid fans and newcomers alike.

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Episode Summary

Opening Remarks and Housekeeping ([00:00] - [03:50])

Abu and Leo kick off the episode with their characteristic banter, clarifying that their prowess is purely in podcasting. They proceed to issue a spoiler warning for listeners, advising those who haven't watched the first two episodes of "Dune: Prophecy" to catch up before tuning in. Special thanks are extended to their top patrons, and they announce a new one-time tip option for supporting the podcast.

Promotion of the Official Dune Prophecy Podcast ([03:50] - [05:16])

The hosts introduce the official "Dune Prophecy Podcast" by HBO, highlighting its focus on the Bene Gesserit sisterhood and its role in unpacking each episode with insights from cast and crew members.

Episode Two Overview ([05:16] - [37:19])

Leo provides a comprehensive recap of Episode Two, touching upon significant plot points:

• Wallach 9: The episode begins with an examination of Kasha's body by Tula and Dr. Nazir, leading to ambiguous results that leave viewers questioning Desmond's abilities.

  "Which could indicate that this is maybe like... psychic thing or a technology thing." ([06:14] - Leo)

• Valya's Mission: Valya declares her departure to Seleucus Secundus, leaving Tula in charge and assigning her the mission involving Lila, who is revealed to be the great-great-granddaughter of Raquela, the founder of the Bene Gesserit.

  "She gives Tula a pretty big mission while she's gone." ([06:42] - Abu)

• Imperial Court Tensions: Duke Ricchesi is furious over Bruit's death, blaming technology and the Decepticon Robo Gecko, which he doesn't believe was responsible. Desmond confronts Emperor Havoco Corrino, admitting to killing Bruit as directed, showcasing a complex relationship steeped in power dynamics.

  "I killed the... boy exactly like you wanted me to." ([09:22] - Abu)

• Rebellion and Espionage: Introduction of Kieran Atreides as part of a rebel group aiming to overthrow the great houses, though his motivations remain vague.

• Spice Agony and Prophecy: Lila undergoes the Spice Agony, revealing cryptic prophecies about "one born twice" and hints towards the Kwisatz Haderach concept.

  "The key to the reckoning is one born twice. Once in blood, once in spice." ([29:15] - Abu)

• Valya vs. Desmond: A climactic confrontation in the Emperor's map room where Valya attempts to use the "voice" on Desmond, who resists, revealing his unique capabilities.

  "You're a move, bitch. Brought a gun to this chess game." ([35:10] - Abu)

Throughout the episode, Abu expresses concerns over the pacing and emotional investment, while Leo appreciates the character development and intricate plot layers.

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Key Discussions and Insights

Pacing and Story Progression

Abu voices apprehension regarding the show's pacing, feeling that Episode Two is too focused on setup rather than advancing the plot. He contrasts this with other serialized shows like "Arcane," which effectively balance overarching mysteries with immediate emotional stakes.

"I'm left questioning what the stakes are. Where am I as the viewer supposed to be emotionally invested?" ([39:49] - Abu)

Conversely, Leo enjoys the nuanced character interactions and the unfolding layers of manipulation and power plays, particularly highlighting Desmond's role as a potential political weapon.

"The acting performances continue to be so good. Mark Strong is so much fun in his... 'I killed that child' moment is such an incredible scene." ([48:39] - Leo)

Character Analysis

• Valya Harkonnen: Portrayed as a controlling and manipulative leader, Valya's interactions, especially with Lila, showcase her willingness to sacrifice for the sisterhood.

  "The key to the reckoning is one born twice. Once in blood, once in spice." ([29:15] - Abu)

• Desmond Hart: A central figure whose resistance to the Bene Gesserit's "voice" hints at deeper, possibly prophetic abilities, raising questions about his true nature and potential as a Kwisatz Haderach.

  "Are you a prophet, Desmond Hart?" ([26:10] - Leo)

Thematic Elements

The episode delves into themes of manipulation, loyalty, and power dynamics within the Imperium. The hosts discuss how various characters employ different forms of manipulation to achieve their goals, drawing parallels to the broader narrative of the "Dune" universe.

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Takeaways and Critiques

Abu's Perspective:

• Pacing Issues: Frustrated by the slow progression and the extensive setup, Abu questions the emotional investment and clarity of stakes.

  "I'm left questioning what the stakes are. Where am I as the viewer supposed to be emotionally invested?" ([39:49] - Abu)

• Character Stakes: Feels that key characters like Kieran Atreides lack clear motivations, making it difficult to connect emotionally.

  "I don't know why I'm invested in Valya and Tula because I don't know what they're invested in." ([39:49] - Abu)

• Narrative Clarity: Suggests streamlining certain plot elements, such as developing Kieran's role more organically without generic rebel scenes.

Leo's Perspective:

• Appreciation for Character Development: Enjoys the depth and complexity of characters, especially Valya and Desmond, and the intricate power plays.

  "I enjoyed the agony scene. It was incredible." ([37:19] - Leo)

• Positive Response to Acting: Praises Mark Strong's portrayal of Emperor Havoco and the performances that add layers to the narrative.

  "The acting performances continue to be so good." ([48:39] - Leo)

• Interest in Lore Integration: Finds the incorporation of hidden lore and Easter eggs enriching for fans, enhancing the viewing experience.

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Lore Easter Eggs and Minutiae

In the "Minutiae Segment," Abu and Leo highlight subtle nods and detailed lore references within the episode:

• HBO Intro Elements:

  • Bull Imagery: Represents overconfidence and risk, echoing themes from Frank Herbert's original works.
  • Fur Whale Carcasses: Symbolize the Harkonnen reliance on whale fur for their economy, referencing deeper economic structures within the "Dune" universe.
  • Gom Jabbar Needle: An iconic Bene Gesserit test for humanity, hinting at future thematic explorations.

• Planet Balut:

  • Background: Introduced as Desmond's home planet, Balut is depicted as a world devastated by thinking machines and attacked by precursor groups to the Tleilaxu, adding layers to Desmond's character and potential future plotlines.

    "Balut was decimated by thinking machines and has never fully recovered." ([65:15] - Abu)

• Seleucus Secundus – Zimia:

  • Capital City Details: Described as a post-Jihad metropolis with diverse cultural influences and monuments honoring long-fought heroes, enriching the political landscape of the Imperium.

• Cones of Silence:

  • Usage: A subtle inclusion in scenes involving Valya and the Truth Sayer from House Richese, referencing the Dune Encyclopedia and highlighting the technological advancements within the Imperium.

    "There were more cones of silence in the main Harkonnen palace than bathrooms." ([69:43] - Abu)

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Concluding Thoughts

Abu and Leo wrap up the episode by balancing their critiques with appreciation for the show's strengths. Abu remains cautiously optimistic, acknowledging the enjoyable standalone scenes while expressing concerns about narrative pacing. Leo remains enthusiastic about the character developments and hidden lore integrations, looking forward to future episodes and potential revelations that could address the current shortcomings.

"I'm open to and hoping that [the show's pacing] changes. Maybe episode three is when we hit the ground running." ([39:49] - Abu)

"I'm excited to see what they do with episode three. And for sure I could see at the end of this six-episode arc it feeling the tempo is kind of weird and whatever, but I'm willing to find out." ([59:43] - Abu)

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Support and Community Engagement

The hosts encourage listeners to support the podcast through Patreon and merchandise purchases, participate in live watch-alongs, and engage with the community via email and social media platforms. They also invite feedback on missed minutiae and listener takeaways, fostering an interactive and engaged fanbase.

"Email us at gomjabarpodcastmail.com... Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify." ([71:16] - Leo)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Abu on Manipulation:

  "The lie about her mother, the implication that this child will get to see the mother she never knew if she does this thing you want, it's very icky." ([55:17] - Abu)

• Leo on Desmond's Integrity:

  "I think that he has been telling the truth. That’s part of his intimidation factor." ([37:19] - Leo)

• Abu on the Spice Agony:

  "Watching the agony here, I'm like, no, I'm out. Like, never do that." ([29:15] - Abu)

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Final Remarks

"Dune: Prophecy Episode 2" offers a complex interplay of character dynamics, political intrigue, and deep-rooted lore that both challenges and rewards its audience. While Abu expresses reservations about the show's pacing and emotional engagement, Leo finds solace in the rich character portrayals and hidden lore elements. As the season progresses, listeners remain hopeful that the narrative momentum will accelerate, delivering a compelling adaptation of Frank Herbert's legendary universe.

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Note: This summary is intended to provide a comprehensive overview of the podcast episode based on the provided transcript. For the most accurate and nuanced understanding, listening to the full podcast is recommended.

Transcript

[A]

Today on the show, we're proving why the stories of our prowess transcend time and space. Leo. Yeah, Our podcasting prowess, to be clear, that was not sexual.

[B]

It's not sexual. Damn it. Can't wait for another day, I guess.

[A]

I mean, it can be sexual. Take that as you will, listener. You know, Take that as you will. Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe, from Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. Tv. Tv. Tv.

[B]

Tv, tv.

[A]

My name's Abu.

[B]

My name is Leo. Leo. Leo. Leo.

[A]

Good bit, good bit. We should do that. The whole episode.

[B]

Echoes. Echoes.

[A]

Welcome back, folks, to our Dune Prophecy coverage. We are here today to talk about Dune Prophecy episode two.

[B]

She. Yep, it's gonna be fun.

[A]

Interesting one. Today's conversation's gonna be interesting. But before we say too much, let's take care of some housekeeping, get some spoiler stuff out of the way, and then we'll dive in.

[B]

Indeed. And first up, spoiler warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for the first two episodes of Dune Prophecy, so make sure you've seen both episodes before you listen. And of course, light spoilers for Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune book. Probably best if you've read Dune by Frank Herbert as well, but nothing too explicitly spoilery there, for sure.

[A]

And of course, at the top of the show, a huge shout out to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons, Rob Silver, Daniel Dion, Jonathan Lambert, and CR Spruill.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Folks, the stories of your generosity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sex appeal. Transcend time and space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we could not be more grateful for your support. Your support is the reason we get to make this show. And that gratitude, of course, extends to all of our patrons at every level who built the foundation upon which this production runs.

[B]

And actually, we have a new way to show your support if you're, you know, burnt out on subscription services. We also have a one time tip option. That link is also in the show notes. You can buy us a spice coffee. You can buy us a pint of spice beer. Show your appreciation however you'd like.

[A]

That's right. Okay, housekeeping out of the way. Here's the game plan for today's conversation. We will begin with a quick summary of the episode to refresh your memory. Again, we are hoping that you've watched the show before.

[B]

You listen.

[A]

Watch it first, then come back and listen.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

Then we're going to each be diving into our takeaways, the big ideas, the big themes, the big thoughts that we're having in our big brains about this episode. And then finally at the end, because this is a nerdy Dune lore podcast, we will be sharing some lore Easter eggs that we picked up on in our minutia segment. So before we get into all of that, let's take a quick break. Don't go anywhere, folks. When we come back, we're talking about Dune Prophecy episode two. Hey, folks, Abu and Leo here from the Gom Jabbar Podcast here to tell you about another Dune podcast that we think you're gonna love.

[B]

It's called the official Dune Prophecy Podcast. It's from the fine folks at hbo. And of course, the HBO original series is going to be focusing on that shadowy sisterhood that of course becomes everyone's favorite Bene Gesserit.

[A]

On the companion podcast, hosts Greta Johnson and Ahmed Ali Akbar are going to guide you through every episode of the HBO Original series and unpack each episode with guests from the show, including cast and crew.

[B]

So if you're listening to our podcast, Gom Jabbar, you're probably already a huge Dune fan. We think you'll you'll enjoy the series and their companion podcast. It's a fresh take on an incredible universe and we're all going to go places we've never seen before.

[A]

That's right. And if you're a podcast listener, you know the drill. Listen to the official Dune Prophecy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to stream new episodes of the HBO original series Dune Prophecy exclusively on max. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini Live.

[B]

Welcome back, everybody. Everybody, everybody. Let's get into our quick summary of what happened in episode two of Dune Prophecy. Now, after the opening credits sequence. Oh my God. Iconic. This is new. We get to see the H opening sequence for a Dune television show. Truly a golden era for us Dune fans. We're eating well, folks. Following that opening sequence, we join Tula on Wallach 9 and she and Bene Gesserit sister Dr. Nazir from the SUK School are examining Kasha's toasty crispy body, and the examination is inconclusive. Tests are going to take time. We're told. All we know so far is that there is no detectable acceleran and that there was an acute imbalance in her meridian network.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Which could indicate that this is maybe like. I mean, again, it kind of feels like they're really treading the line. They're making sure that we can't decide if this is a psychic thing or a technology thing.

[A]

Honestly, my meridian brain hurts thinking about that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, same.

[A]

I'm left dumbfounded. You're right, though. It's very intentional. I think they are still making sure that people like you and I are guessing about what's actually happening here with Desmond and his abilities.

[B]

That's true. Now, Valya declares that she is headed to Seleucus Secundus. She gives Tula a pretty big mission while she's gone. She's like, you're in charge of the school also. Hey, you know Lila, you know your favorite. Your favorite acolyte? She's got to go through the agony, sis. And because Lila's great great grandmother is Raquela, is the founder of the Bene Gesserit. Huge reveal.

[A]

Huge reveal from this episode. Yeah.

[B]

Fucking called it. I don't think I got the generations right, but I was like, you got the generations wrong. I got the generations. You're right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Still.

[A]

But you got the connection right. Yeah, you totally called the connection for sure.

[B]

So they are going to push Lila into the Spice Agony so that she can talk to Rakella and Rachella can give them more information about what she saw on her deathbed. And it kind of breaks down a little bit of Frank's lore, but it doesn't matter. Very cool. Reveal that Lila is related to the founder of of the Bene Gesserit school.

[A]

Now, speaking of the Imperial Court and Salusa Secundus, folks, things are not going well.

[B]

What?

[A]

Duke Ricchesi is mad furious.

[B]

We are so sorry to our Italian listeners.

[A]

Yeah, that's my bad Italian accent. So sorry. I'll stop doing that for now. Can't promise I won't return to it in the future. Duke Rachesi, livid, obviously, and heartbroken. You know, about the death of Bruit. This is something else that we called in our livestream with Quinn last week. Folks were discussing how are they gonna explain a child burning alive? And the explanation is, blame it on the technology. The Decepticon Robo gecko gets the blame here for the death and The Duke doesn't buy it. You know, of course, like Duke Riches, we kind of have been messing around with technology, and we know this Robo Gecko could not have done this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what actually happened here? He'll learn about that shortly. Later in the episode. Now, then we cut to Desmond meeting with Havoco Corrino, the Emperor. And in a bold move, Cotton, he admits he's like, emperor, I killed the.

[B]

Boy exactly like you wanted me to.

[A]

Just like you asked me to. And the Emperor. This was so. I laughed out loud watching this scene having, like, Mark Strong doing such a great job playing like a weenie.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

Yeah. No.

[B]

What? I didn't.

[A]

I didn't. That's not what I meant. It's like, bro, do you.

[B]

Politics or not, man, when I insinuated you murder that child, I had no idea you would. I didn't tell you.

[A]

Hilarious. And Desmond keeps leaning. You know, he keeps doing the eye thing. And he's just like, what I did for you once, I can do again. Just point me in a direction, Emperor. And he's just like, bro, stop offering to kill people. It's a crazy move from Desmond's part. And I'm like, what is the game plan here? It was hilarious. And I actually quite liked this scene. It was funny.

[B]

I loved. I was gonna say this might be one of my favorite scenes in the episode. Like, I think both of their acting is so good when Havoco is like, if I made any indication, it was of a personal matter, and Desmond's long pause and like, of course. Of course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So good. It's so good.

[A]

So funny. And just shows us, like, how unprepared to be Emperor Habakko is. He's such a bumbling fool. And Mark Strong is playing that super well. I love it.

[B]

Did you get the moment of temptation? Like, I saw a very clear moment of him, like, going, well, this would be pretty use. And then him going, no, no, no, no, no. This is magic. Wait, wait, wait.

[A]

No, no, no. I certainly got that in this scene, too. And Natalia clearly recognized that, recognizes the latches on and go. Anyway, Havoco's like, oh, shit. You know, I shouldn't be, like, having this guy kill people, I guess. Arrest him, please. And they arrest him and take him to the suspenser prison where he just floats. Is this a prison for one he hangs out? Yeah, he just hangs out. I will say, kind of looks fun. If, like, Cedar Point wants to make that a ride, I'm game. Anyway, we then cut to Constantine and Pruitt's older sister, who we saw brief glimpse of in the first episode. They're bumping some Purple Spice cocaine and also bumping each other physically in with their groins. You get what I'm saying?

[B]

Oh, are they having sex, Abu? Is that what they're doing? Thank God you talked around it, otherwise we would have had to rate this podcast explicit.

[A]

Heaven forbid. While that is happening, they're obviously also talking politics. I got the sense that Pruitt's sister is a little more intelligent than she gives off and is clearly getting info out of this dumbass Constantine.

[B]

She's heavy.

[A]

Straight up. Just WikiLeaks, the truth about Desmond and how the Emperor knows Desmond killed Pruitt. And thus we see shortly that Duke Ruschese will learn that information as well.

[B]

Also, bless the showrunner. Bless everyone in charge of this show for giving us so much Naked Constantine. I was on cloud nine. What a great. What a great prince. Anyway, back to Wallach 9. Lila is just kind of struggling with this decision. Do you attempt the spice agony or not? Right. Sister Emmaline is like, listen, there's nothing holier than the human life, so giving it is the greatest gift you can give. So if you give your life, so be it. Also, this is what other memory is. You will join all of your mothers and your blah, blah, blah. Which at first the lore part of me was like, no, it isn't. You're wrong. But then I also realized these are acolytes who might not know the full story, who are in school, kind of trying to hash things out with one another, which I thought was kind of cool. It's fun to hear these young women kind of trying to find their. Reconcile their beliefs and where they come from and their backgrounds with the sisterhood's teachings. It's very cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And on the other side of the coin, you have Sister Jen, who's like, fuck that. That's straight up manipulation. They're always saying, sisterhood above all. Fuck that, you, human life has worth. Don't throw it away. What are you doing?

[A]

So Sister Genesis, the co worker that's like, fuck this company, man. Like, just put it on the company card. Who cares? Yeah, they don't care about us. They'll lay us off at any second. Yeah, you can't be loyal to the corporation. And I'm like, hell, yeah, Sister Jen. Let's go.

[B]

Coffee machine breaks down. She's like, they don't care about us. Takes a vape. She's like, yeah, they don't give a shit about Us? Oh, yeah. I vape in the bathrooms. Don't worry about it.

[A]

Everybody needs a co worker like that for sure. To keep the.

[B]

Everyone needs a sister, Jen for sure. Now Tula is preparing the rhostic poison, which is very cool. Nice little deep cut. While Valya has a spy check in on her. What you doing? You're making a rhosic poison? Is that for an acolyte? Acolyte. That rhymes with Myla. And of course, Tula realizes, oh, this is what's happening. Okay, yeah, just report to Valya. It's going to happen if she wants to. Right.

[A]

Which I thought this was a really nice subtle moment that shows us how little Valya is willing to give up control.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Right. She's like, tula, you're in charge, babe. I trust you, little sis. Let's go.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

I'm out. I'm going to Seleucus secundus. And she fully leaves behind somebody who's like, make sure Tula doesn't fuck up. Okay.

[B]

Let's just make sure things get done.

[A]

It shows how little she trusts even someone as close to her as her direct sister to actually run things properly. She's a bit of a control freak. Valya.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, cutting back to Seleucus Secundus. Valya arrives at the spaceport, which I thought was absolutely gorgeous. My goodness, it looked great in the trailers. And I remember you and I talking about it. Beautiful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then we got to the spaceport scene and we're on the ground and it's bustling and it's just so good.

[B]

Like, so many extras getting paid.

[A]

The spaceport. Hell yeah. Yeah. Great. I love. I scribbled this in my notes somewhere, actually. I love when this show zooms out, like, more huge, wide panning shots of stuff. Because it's gorgeous.

[B]

It really is. I love it.

[A]

Spaceport was great. Okay. Valya arrives just in time because Ducharisi is just exploding on havoco. He's learned about Desmond. He's like, bro, let me talk to the man who killed my son. I know you're holding him. Yaviko's like, don't talk to me like that, okay? I'm the emperor. Don't talk to me like that.

[B]

Due to a chasing, I'm the very important emperor.

[A]

Again, he comes off as such a bumbling fool, which I think, you know, is clearly intentional. And they're doing it so well. Valia arrives just in time. She defuses the tension and is like, hey, okay, you know, like, let's not get into this Guy right now. Like, we're all grieving, blah, blah, blah. Duke Rachese goes away, but, you know, says the very iconic and cliche, this isn't over. And then Valia turns to Yaviko and she's like, okay, anyway, the. The guy, the Desmond guy he was talking about. I want to talk to him, too, though.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And he tries to maintain his bluff for, like, five seconds and then immediately crumbles in the face of the Mother Superior. Natalia kind of nudges him, too. And so Valia gets her. Her interview with Desmond.

[B]

I will say I appreciate the sort of way that the temperature in the room changes with Valya's introduction. We feel viscerally what the Mother Superior is to the Imperium when Valya walks into the room. And we see also that five seconds that he's like, what? No. Me? No. I don't. I don't know. Secrets over here, ma'am. Like, we see how uncomfortable she makes him. And when she's like, I'm sure your intentions are good. I know you're lying, he's like, okay.

[A]

Well, she carries a lot of weight. Which, at the same time, a criticism that is always kind of ringing in the back of my head that some folks were making about the first episode is like, we're already kind of seeing the Bene Gesserit in a powerful position. What are we watching them grow into, really? What is the growth we're supposed to be seeing if Valya Harkonnen can walk in and make the Emperor melt into a puddle, what growth are we. What? You know, And I think the show has yet to still answer that question, and maybe we'll see. But I felt that in this scene a little bit, too, where I was like, okay, the Sisterhood already seems, like, pretty feared and powerful, like, qed Are we done? Mission accomplished.

[B]

It's formidable. But remember, her plan is to have power the way she understands power, which is, yes, there's power in the shadows, but an Empress, a Bene Gesserit on the throne is what we're going for. So you're right, but I think that's where this conversation that she has with Mikaela, that conversation of, there's power in the light, there's power in the shadows, and the people in the shadows want to be the ones next to the Emperor, and I'm right there on the throne themselves. But, like, do you want that? And I think that's going to be the lesson. Like you said in our interview with Quinn, I think that's going to be the lesson that they learn in this. So you're right, they are very powerful. But I think they're still, as we see in today's episode. They are one or two missteps away from being cast aside by someone, the emperor, who is paranoid and afraid of every shadow. And I'm surrounded by vipers and it's like, okay, chill, chill, bro.

[A]

I just imagine putting myself in a quote unquote, Normie's shoes.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

The Bene Gesserit and Sisterhood is too light. The line between them is way too faded. You know, the distinction there is like. Because especially this show for many years and even now has kind of been pitched as like, we're watching the origins of the Bene Gesserit sisterhood, the thing you saw in the Villeneuve films. And if you're coming in from the Villeneuve films, you're just watching the sisterhood be the same thing they were in the movies. What am I watching the origins of? Obviously, you and I know it's like, more complex. And it's their transformation into the Bene Gesserit, their transformation into this new mo that they perhaps operate with the harsh lessons they learn along the way. That is a tougher sell, I think, to someone who just came in expecting to watch, like, the cool come up of these badass women because they seem to have already comed up. That was a weird way to say that. Shouldn't have said that.

[B]

Comed up. I'm glad you came up in the past tense. That was really.

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, I'm belaboring the point. Yeah, I think you're absolutely correct, but it's just something that is sort of ringing in the back of my head as I'm watching these episodes. Back to our summary here. Valia has her interview with Desmond. A lot of sort of like, banter back and forth, but not much is achieved via this interview, except a couple of cool facts that are confirmed. Desmond outright admits that he killed Pruitt and Kasha, which is kind of crazy because now we're wondering how across half the galaxy. And he also reveals that Shai Hulud took his eye and gave him powers to see things even you cannot, Mother Superior. Which is cool because that. I don't know if it made you think Kwisatz Haderach. It made me think Kwisatz Haderach immediately. The fact that Kwisatz Haderach and Paul can go where the sisters cannot can delve into the darker parts of Prescient's other memory and abilities that the sisters are locked out of kind of leads credence to our like. Is Desmond a proto early Kwisatz Haderach?

[B]

Yeah. Cause also then the goal would be, let's spend the next 10,000 years making a new Desmond Heart who's under our control, who's fully wrapped up in our mythology. That would be very, very powerful. That's a great point. That's interesting.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah, that line sort of rang. Rang out to me. Ultimately, though, the Emperor and empress at this point are quite interested in using Desmond as a political weapon against Rachesi and their other enemies in the Imperium. And so there are no consequences for him admitting to multiple crimes. And Valya leaves this interrogation frustrated. And Desmond clearly is like, I think I'm good. I'm in a good spot here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We also quickly. Sticking with the palace here, we quickly cut to Kieran, who is 3D scanning stuff. And then that scene sort of continues and we learn that, oh, Kieran Atreides is part of some rebellion plot that involves the blue eyed woman that we saw in episode one. And seemingly their goal is take out the great houses in the landstraut. I guess. Hurt Kirino, kill Corrino. It's all sort of elusive and vague right now.

[B]

Yeah, it's like send a message that no one can ignore because the great houses are holding spice and have these vast stores of wealth and aren't like. And are not letting the little man up.

[A]

Yeah, we've been crushed under their boots for too long, you know. But who are you? Who's being crushed? We don't really see any of that. You know, it's just people saying things. But I guess this is a pretty big reveal that Kieran is part of a rebel group and a spy within the palace.

[B]

Also, what is that guy's name? Do you recall?

[A]

Oh, he said it in their super cliche and awful intro where they, like, insult each other and then they're like, big hug me at you, UG me. I hate that. I fucking hate when shows do that. His name was something dumb like Holston or Hogan. Hulk Hogan or something like. It was.

[B]

It was Hulk Hogan. Because it's not like it didn't strike.

[A]

Me as a character that's like from the books, that's relevant or anything.

[B]

We'll look into that and we'll talk more about that in our Thursday livestream.

[A]

Yeah. In the live Q and A. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Now back to Valya. Valya meets with sister Mikaela. Appears to maybe be the same lady with the blue eyes. Blue within Blue eyes of a bad.

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[B]

And they learn that the attack on both Desmond and that spice harvester that we saw in that little recording was a part of the Bene Gesserit plotting. And in fact, it appears to have been Mikaela's idea. You know, Valya says that was a bit of excellent subterfuge, basically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With the goal of weakening the Emperor and forcing him into this position of needing to maybe shore up his defenses on planet by an unfavorable wedding to a piece of shit asshole whose young son is a child. You know, pieces are coming together. Pieces are coming together. But now Valya says, no, him being weak is no longer a benefit to us. We need to actually demonstrate our worth. So I need you to just give me the names of all the rebels. And Mikhaila seems hesitant, but reveals, well, start off with the one that they have in the palace. His swordmaster, Kiran Atreides. So Valya now has this smoking gun. The evidence, I guess, or a name that she can present to the Emperor as currency. Now Kieran, man of the hour, is sparring with Princess Inez. She's working through her emotions over the death of Kasha, and the two almost bang. They do some smooching, but she stops the smooching. She calls a halt to it. And she says, hey, things were different when I was about to leave for grad school, but now I'm sticking around, so we're probably best if we don't, you know. Now Empress Natalia has a one on one chat with Desmond again, asking interesting questions, but none of the ones that I would ask. She's not really asking super productive questions, but she says, why shouldn't we just give you over to Duke Rachese? And Desmond's like, well, I'm still a soldier. Why not let me demonstrate my value to you by showing you what I can do to those who would embarrass you and challenge your power. She also asks the question that I think got all of us very excited as Dune fans. She goes, quote, are you a prophet, Desmond Hart? End quote. And I was like. She said the word prophet. I don't know. I think the word. The word prophet in Dune is such a. Such a very specific thing. So loaded. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I get the sense that Natalia has some sort of religion going on, you know, I think so too. Why are you leading with asking, are you a prophet? Earlier in her chat with the Emperor, I can't recall the exact quote, but she says something sort of religious, y. You know, in response to Him.

[B]

So he says he claims to have been eaten by a sandworm and she goes by Shai Hulud.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maybe that was the line that's.

[B]

And then Havoco's like, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what I said. Sure, yeah. But, yeah, he's clearly crazy. And that, for me, is the pivot for her. So she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. He was eaten by the God of the Fremen. So I actually wrote in my notes, I was like, does she have Fremen roots? Does she have connections?

[A]

That was my question as well.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an interesting story.

[A]

What is her belief system? That she thinks Desmond is a prophet and would go to him and directly ask that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't walk around asking people if they're prophets unless you. You don't already have some, like, strongly held beliefs.

[B]

There's areas in New York where I'm pretty sure every person who walks by is.

[A]

Yeah, true. I guess, like in New York, based on how they.

[B]

I'm pretty sure there's some prophets here. That being said, you're absolutely right. And I also will say that it would explain somewhat why she's so willing to train this psychic gun on their behalf, like throw ethics out the door if you have someone acting on God's will.

[A]

If this is God's will. Right.

[B]

If this is God's will. Yeah. So that's a very interesting consideration, and we will have to see how that plays out. And as a direct byproduct of that conversation, Duke Riccase gets a little lightly toasted. And because of this toasting, because of this Panini. Panini press. He bends to the demands of Java Coino and basically is now under the heel of the emperor, as the emperor desires.

[A]

Yeah. If I'm understanding Gen Z slang correctly, Duke Richese is cooked, literally and politically. After this scene, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, let's return to Wallach 9 because.

[B]

Oh, my God, we have a final.

[A]

My favorite. Just the thing this whole episode is about, for me at least. We return to Wallach 9. Lila undergoes the agony. Incredible scene. I cannot gush enough about this. I cannot say enough good things about this. Bravo to this production team for pulling this off such a good scene. Technically, pacing wise, just incredible to actually see this thing visualized that is so central and core to the sisterhood from the books. It's full on horror stuff. We get these really spooky looking representations of other memories. Once Lila is within the agony, these Personas are closing in on her. And Touching her and suffocating her and drowning her in bodies.

[B]

It was a couple times. Also, the line, they're gonna awaken wild hungry. I was like, nah, nah, thanks, I'm good. Nope, I don't need to anymore. I'm out.

[A]

Yeah, it wonderfully illustrates why the agony is such a scary thing, right? In fact, I might have mentioned this to you on our FaceTime after we watched it, but almost to me, better than the book. Cause I read the agony in the book, and I was like, yeah, that sounds tough. But watching the agony here, I'm like, no, I'm out. Like, never do that. You know, put me in the space. Put me in the suspenser prison first before I do this thing. Now, the scene. As the scene plays out through access to her other memory, as Lila is fighting for her life, she reveals more of Rachella's cryptic prophecy. More details. Specifically, quote, the key to the reckoning is one born twice. Once in blood, once in spice. Dr. Seuss popping off here, a revenant full of scars, A weapon born of war. On a path too short, path too.

[B]

Short, path too short.

[A]

The shortening of the way again, like, these little. Little breadcrumbs that are being tossed out to, like, Dune fans who will recognize this sort of thing. Loved that. I loved that. Didn't love the rhyme as much, but sure, this is one of those instances from, like, a storytelling point where it's like, why are you being so vague at this point? You know we're calling you in. Like, I'm on who Wants to Be a Millionaire? I'm at the million dollar question, Mom. Stop rhyming and tell me the answer to the fucking question.

[B]

Across a thousand years, the sand will settle on a dream once dreamt by wings flutter. I need to know what species Regis.

[A]

Fillbit is looking me dead in the eye right now.

[B]

I need you to tell me. Sometimes you will find the answer hidden in the lotus blossom.

[A]

Regis.

[B]

A.

[A]

A final answer. Bye, Mom.

[B]

It's C. It's C. No, you know, like, that.

[A]

That. That. That's the problem with this sort of, like, fake traumatization that kills me. This is a cliche. A lot of shows do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's like characters at a certain point have no reason to keep being vague. Just say the thing. And so you're just, like, building up this fake drama, which irked me a little bit. You know, it's okay for her to be vague at the start because it's her deathbed. It's her gasping breath. Of course, she's just like, frantically getting out whatever she can at that moment. But at this point, we're, like, dialing you in.

[B]

Raquela, just tell us how about this, because here's a counterpoint, and I think this is in line with Dune's themes. We see in Prime Dune the risks of prophecy and how prophecy can lock you into specific things and whatever. What if her prescience was just really vague and she's got no fucking clue? So she's like, oh, shit, they're back asking me more. Oh, what sounds good? The key to the reckoning is one born twice, one in blood and one in spice. Oh, that sounds sick. You know? And they're like, okay. Kind of vague. And she's like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what they mean. I saw this.

[A]

Fair. I mean, to be fair, like, Paul's visions in Messiah are very vague too, right? That's what I'm saying about what he's saying, what he's seeing in his visions. Much of what he's seeing is, like, incorrect or is only a possibility that they now happen. So that's fair. Prescience is a very messy tool and certainly is not something that gives you clarity. Regardless, it doesn't matter because Dorotea cuts in here. This was amazing. Dorothea then takes over. Lila, Abomination, Leo on screen. Lila's taken over. We get incredible acting by the actor, the young actor who plays Lila, and she says basically, like, fuck you, Tula. I'm gonna cut the details of this short from Raquela because you murdered me, so fuck you and the sisterhood that you are building because I'm not around anymore. It's this final act of vengeance from Dorothea's other memory to not give them more details about this prophecy.

[B]

Yes. Huge shout out to Chloe Leah, the actress who played Lila. Spectacular performance. Really excellent stuff. The manners, the physicality of being Dorothea and the sort of, like, set of her jaw as she's, like, hearkening.

[A]

So good. Such great actor.

[B]

Excellent, excellent, excellent. Now our final scene for real this time is Valya and Desmond head to head in the Emperor's little map room. Little reflecting on things room.

[A]

Yeah, his podcast studio.

[B]

His podcast studio, yeah. So she's like, where's the Emperor? Desmond's like, you're fired. Sorry. You are the weakest link. Goodbye. And it becomes clear that the Emperor's trust has fully shifted away from the sisterhood. We got little crumbs, bits and pieces, that hinted toward this, but now we see it written in ink. Desmond's performance with the Duke Riccase solidified the Emperor's reliance on Desmond, and trust in Desmond as a tool. Now Valya tries her tried and true trick, the voice. She's like, all right, you beat me in chess, but I can beat you in fucking killing you.

[A]

Kill yourself. Brought a gun to this chess game.

[B]

Brought a gun to this chess game. You're a move, bitch. And so she tries the voice on him, and at first it seems like it's working, and then there's this spectacular moment, electric moment, where she goes, drive it into your throat. And he doesn't. And she's like, okay, this is the. Admittedly, the first time this has happened. Let's try that again. I mean, get the pitch right. Me, me, me, me. Okay. Driving into your throat. And then he's like, okay, I'll stop fucking with you. I'm good. I'm good. Psych.

[A]

I'm wearing Kevlar, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Unbelievable. It was an incredible reveal. Really excellent. And even then delivers this incredible line where he's like, oh, that's your greatest fear. Not that you wouldn't be heard, but that you would be heard and no one would care. Which is just so cold. So cold, actually. Excellent little note from Elsa.

[A]

Yes. Ilsa, our producer in the chat, brings up an absolutely great question here.

[B]

Yeah. Does that mean that we should question whether or not her truth sense was accurately working on him as well?

[A]

I don't think so. I think if he's able to resist the voice, I think he's also able to dupe the truth sense. He's able to lie to the sisters.

[B]

I think the way that it has been shown so far, I think that he has been telling the truth. I think that's part of his. I think that's part of his intimidation factor, his aura, because he's like. His line where he goes, I wouldn't dare lie to you, Valya Harkonnen. And she goes, where are you from? He goes, bamut or Balut or whatever it is. Like, he just. The way he talks around things and the way that he answers questions feels like him demonstrating that he can be interrogated under truth sense and still pass the test. But it's a very interesting possibility, and I might end up eating my foot before the end of this. This series, because that is possible. Maybe he's fully immune.

[A]

No, I am maybe instantly changing my mind because I think you're right, actually. Yeah. Let me walk back everything I just said so confidently. You're right. I have not gotten the sense in these first two episodes that anything Desmond has said is a lie.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that's part of his gambit toward havoco. There's no better way to demonstrate that you're trustworthy than to just be honest and to say, oh, the kid. Yeah, I killed him. I killed him for you. I'd kill again. Anyone point at him, I'll kill him.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

You know, and I think that's part of the game he's playing is like.

[A]

No, I think you're right. I think you're right.

[B]

You can't trust anybody with the lies that they tell. And at least I'm being honest.

[A]

Great question, Ilsa. Good call. Out. Okay, well, that wraps up our summary of Dune Prophecy, episode two. Let's take a quick breather. Let's collect ourselves. Let's activate our truth sense and take a quick break. When we come back, we're getting into some takeaways and diving a little deeper into our thoughts about certain moments in this episode. We'll be right back.

[B]

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[B]

Welcome back, everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break. Let's get into looking a little bit more deeply at our. Well, just broadly about our takeaways. What did we think of the episode? What are our. What do we think happened? Well, what do we think could have been done a little better? And what takeaways do we have from it? And I'll kick it to you first. Abu, what do you think? How are you feeling? Episode two?

[A]

I am very mixed. Very, very mixed on episode two. I think I come down on it a Little harsher than you do. After having watched it now and rewatched it and taken deep notes on it, I've had time to process things and I still kind of feel the same as my initial take. I'm walking away from episode two a little disappointed and a little worried about where we're headed in this show. The thing that's kind of scaring me is that we know this is a six episode season, one that is very short as far as television shows go. This is episode two. So doing some quick napkin math here. If my arithmetic is correct, we're a third of the way through this fucking season already. And I'm a little frustrated that we still seem to be in the gotta set things up phase of the story. Gotta set up the stakes, gotta set up the relationships, gotta set up the character motivations. I had hoped that we had gotten through most of that in episode one, and by this episode we would be feeling much more forward momentum. Things would be happening, characters would be clashing. The story, the plot, the conflicts would be evolving. Some of that again is happening, but to me still feels like we're moving at a snail's pace. For me, the biggest takeaway then walking out of this episode is I'm left questioning what the stakes are. Where am I as the viewer supposed to be emotionally invested? Which character? Which arc? What's happening? Where's the drama? I think there's again, moments of brilliance in this show. In isolation. We get these, like, excellent vignettes of individual scenes. What's not happening yet is all of this coalescing and coming together into an interesting and focused way that will drive the rest of this season forward. To dig into that a little deeper, for example, I wanted to give some more clear examples of what I mean. First and foremost, Valya and Tula, who are clearly the central characters of this first season. And Allison Schapker in our interview with her very directly said, you know, like, that those are our two characters. They're the hearting. They're the beating heart of this show. She has said on many interviews. Their main goal, what we know so far, is to stop Tiran Arafel. Some elusive danger that Rakela foresaw, but we still don't know anything about it. Despite Lila's rhyme scheme, we are still not sure, like, are we referencing Desmond? Deep cut lore nerds like us have thrown out. Like, are we referencing Leto too? What's happening? You know, that to me is a bit of a weak point because it then, it then, like me, the viewer, I Don't know what we're aiming. Like, I don't know why I'm invested in Vali and Tula because I don't know what they're invested in. What are they fighting? What are they fighting for outside of like vague, broad goals like put an empress on the throne because of, because of reasons, because of this prophecy. And you know, I do want to acknowledge that like having a long running, overarching, like mystery in a show is not a bad thing. I'm not saying like every episode has to have drama and then conclude the drama and have more drama and conclude it. That's a very boring way to make a show. A long running, season long, multi season long mystery that slowly unravels. That's juicy television. A lot of mystery box shows have done that incredibly well. Lost, Westworld, Severance have these big mysteries that play out across multiple seasons. But something those shows do incredibly well that I'm not seeing yet. By episode two of Dune, Prophecy is setting up more present and immediate emotional and situational stakes for the characters. Things for them to confront and overcome and contend with in the now. While the larger mystery is also taking place, the larger existential questions kind of feed into that. Desmond is clearly meant to be sort of the more immediate danger. Right? The drama that we're contending with now, Valia V. Desmond is clearly a core of the show, but we're two episodes in and it took to the last five minutes of episode two for him to directly and in a meaningful way interact with Valya in a sort of mic drop moment. That was the first time I felt, oh, Valya, I'm scared because you're scared. You know, I felt some sort of emotional investment in what Valya was doing. It wasn't until that scene with Desmond at the end. And so that's what I'm struggling with. People like Kieran Atreides are still kind of like in the ether with elusive goals. And I'm not emotionally connected to what he's doing because what the fuck is he doing? And also, what's the more human thing? I guess I, ABU in 2024, don't have to worry about Spice production on Arrakis. So it's a little hard for me to relate to that versus a more immediate connection in something like, for example, Arcane, a show that I've been watching and loving. And something that's core to that is the relationship between the sisters. All of us can understand tense relationships with family and coming to terms with that and bonding and fighting. And like all of that is central. Those are the immediate conflicts, while the larger war in arcane takes place in the background. You know, I'm missing that in this show. Something that we're seeing come together. And again, still only being set up is an acolyte storyline. Here in episode two, we spend more time with the acolytes. Lila, Amelia, sister Jen, my girl. And we're setting up some sort of like internal drama within the sisterhood, for sure. You know, maybe these acolytes beginning to question Valia and Tula and their methods and their goals. Still very early. Right? It still hasn't come together in any confrontational way. Maybe Princess Yanez will throw a fun wrinkle into that storyline too. But again, Yanez is not on Wallach 9 yet. So, like, nothing has really happened with Yanez either. And I mentioned earlier Kieran Atreides, same plotline issue. Like, no emotional stakes are actually really set up. I know it's a bit of a cliche criticism to have of a show, but that entire scene with the rebels was all tell and no show. It was rebels, like turning to Kieran Atreides and practically turning to the camera and saying, we're being oppressed. So we are rebelling. And it's like, okay, who the fuck are you? How are you being oppressed? I've seen no oppression in this show at all. Am I just supposed to go along with this? And that I think is. That's a bit weak. That's not selling me and getting me emotionally invested to wrap up. I want to recognize I'm coming off very, very negative. And these are some core structural problems I have with the storytelling of the show and not necessarily with the dune of the show. I don't have lore issues necessarily. I don't have world building issues. Those things I'm actually quite enjoying. I'm just like, as a story and as a television show, we're kind of fumbling the ball a little bit. And I would have liked for these first two episodes, the first episode I gave a lot of grace because you're setting up a whole new world. Sure, you gotta do some exposition and stuff. I would have liked for this second episode to have really hit the ground running and for us to have seen forward momentum and emotional stakes come into play, which I just don't think we did. All of that being said, I'm not waving some sort of white flag and utterly giving up this show and writing it off. There are scenes in isolation that I so, so greatly enjoyed in this episode. Agony scene. Vali versus Desmond. In fact, every time Vali is on screen and doing some scheming, I'm having fun. So there are things in isolation that I like. I just wish they were coming together in some way already. Given that we're two episodes in and we only have four more to go. The clock is ticking and I would have liked to see more forward momentum. That's my takeaway. That's my sort of, like, mini rant. I know that's quite negative, but I really do want to sort of cushion that by saying that I liked a lot of what this episode had to show. I'm just a little worried with what this season is doing right now, two episodes in. But I'm open to and hoping that that changes. You know, maybe episode three is when we fucking hit the ground running and things start, go, go, go. And I'd be there for it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, naturally, I think we fall on different sides of all of this. I broadly enjoyed the episode. The moment to moment scenes, the little, like, the drama of these characters and how they're carrying themselves from moment to moment. It's just fun. I'm enjoying it. There were for sure some clunky moments between characters, but also the more times that I've gone back to them and moments where initially I was thinking, like, an example with Havoco is like, my first thought during the interrogation was like, are you fine with him having killed Kasha? This person, you've been literally like, panicked because she's gone. Why not ask more questions? Or why are you cutting in now and saying, I think we've heard all we need to. But then going back and looking at his scenes, the first thing he says when he sees Valya is, she's been keeping secrets from me and I want to know why. And we can see how his trust has been shaken by Desmond, what Desmond's revealed. And so the more time I've spent with the characters, the more I feel like I'm peeling layers and I'm enjoying that. And I think that's really fun. Like, I can very much go into each individual character and be like, I can kind of tell you where they're at. I also think there's a lot more than is on the screen, which is both a good and a bad thing. But I enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun talking about some things that I really loved from it, from this episode in particular. The acting performances continue to be so good. Mark Strong is so much fun in his, like, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say Kill that child moment is so excellent, is such an incredible scene. And Desmond's reactions, Travis Flamel's reactions to that, that whole sequence was gold. I loved that scene also when Valya asks Desmond, on whose authority did you pass that judgment? And then it just cuts to havoco, like shifting uncomfortably next to his wife. Like it's these subtle little moments where it's like, oh, that's fun. It's fun to see again. I also, I loved the agony scene. I thought the agony scene was incredible, for sure. Now, on my side of things, the critiques that I have for the show, I do think Kieran Atreides is kind of the weak point, for sure. I completely agree. The rebels plotting to attack House Corrina feels the most generic. I don't doubt that the people who are working on this show, who care so much about it, have done the work of saying, this is how Kieran Atreides is personally attached to this rebellion. This is why he has vowed to fight and to die for this cause. I'm sure they have answers to those questions, but we haven't gotten any of them. And so then the byproduct is it just seems like a generic, we are spies and we're gonna rebel or overthrow the empire. And I'm like, this could have been Star wars and I don't know that I would have changed anything, you know?

[A]

You know what would have made him the easiest thing you could do to this episode to make him instantly a hundred times more interesting? Cut the rebel scene. Only have the scene of Sister Miquela telling Valya that Kieran Atreides is a spy.

[B]

Do you still have the him scanning things scene, do you think?

[A]

No, cut all of that and just have Mikaela reveal that she was part of the plot and that Kieran is a spy. Put us in the shoes of the emperor. Put us in the shoes, right? Cause then immediate emotional stakes, you're like, what the fuck?

[B]

Yeah, there's a traitor.

[A]

And then from that cut to him, I think this is what happens after the Miquela scene cut to him sparring with Sister Yanez. The emotional tension for the viewer in that scene, suddenly you're like, isn't this guy a fucking spy? Who is he spying for? How is he this close to the princess?

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point, right?

[A]

You're like taking the air out of your own balloon by having that ham fisted rebel scene in there. Let us feel what some of the characters should be feeling in these moments too. Have us be as stressed about that Reveal.

[B]

I think you've convinced me 100%. I think also I see what you're doing. You're just trying to cut down on the club scenes. You don't want to be in the club.

[A]

That, too.

[B]

You don't want to be all fam.

[A]

I mean, it was, like, weirdly lit, you know, I don't know. The set was kind of basic.

[B]

I see what you're doing.

[A]

This is just my beef against the club scene. And because I love cutting things, you know, I love cutting shit.

[B]

You do love trimming.

[A]

Trimming down the fat.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I think that would make it. I think that would. That would be a good adjustment. I'll also say another critique. I mentioned this last time, and I'll stop mentioning it because it's probably going to be true for the rest of the series.

[A]

This is just a choice.

[B]

The music. They've chosen to have the music in every scene. And there were flat.

[A]

This episode.

[B]

Yeah. I almost feel bad I brought it up in the first episode because now I'm just going to think about it in every episode. But the fact that we just had constant synths and violins and strings whenever there wasn't a musical moment, and I just couldn't help but think it's like, oh, it would have been nice to have some Foley and just environmental sound, and then the music would be that much more impactful. Anyway, I did want to take a second to just talk through a theme that I think is pretty important from this episode, which is the many forms of manipulation that exist within this story and within this series so far. And in this episode in particular, we start to see some various ways that plans within plans can be enveloped so really quickly. We have Tula Harkonnen, right? She seems, on the surface, much more of the emotional one of the sisters, the Harkonnen sisters. The more I revisited the scenes of her kind of bringing the idea to Lila and talking to Lila about what this could mean, the more I feel like she's performing this kind of insidious manipulation. Right? The fact that she's like, oh, yeah, I always. You know, as a secret, I always considered you my daughter as well. That's why I gave you this treasure. She's like, I don't want to lie to you and tell you you will see your mother, but you could. And ultimately you get the choice. And listen, if you're not ready, we've got other plans. But that just so much asks a young person to rise to the challenge and be like, no, no, no. I Am ready. I want to do right by you. I want you to approve of me. I want to do whatever I can for the sisterhood. And, like, that feels so gross. Plus, before Lila's even fucking decided, she's making the poison. So it's like as much as she goes, no, no, no, Lila's gonna decide. It's like, yeah, okay.

[A]

Yeah. It feels a lot like she's telling herself that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think that is the, you know, her visceral reaction to Valya going, lila should go through the agony. And her response being, fucking what? She's gonna die. What are you talking about? No, it's way too early. To her then sitting down with Lila and going, with your aptitude, I believe you can do it. You're ready. Believe me, that is her allowing Lila to, quote, unquote, make her own choice, even as she kind of subtly pushes her in that direction, is her avoiding feeling responsible for Lila's inevitable death. And that is gross. And it kind of goes back to that line. We lie to our enemies, we lie to our friends, and we lie to ourselves.

[A]

Yeah. And just the lie about her mother, the implication that this, like, child will get to see the mother she never knew if she does this thing you want, like, it's very icky. It's so many levels of disgusting, like, manipulation against a child that she presumably, I do believe that she has affections for Lila. Right?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But I think Valya's influence for Tula's entire life has kind of drilled into her that, like, sisterhood first. The exact thing Sister Jen was warning Lila about, that they will always put this sisterhood first at the cost of you and your life is exactly what we see Tula do this whole episode despite her actual reservations and feelings about it.

[B]

Right. It's cool. And another example that comes to mind from this episode is Desmond. Right. Like, Desmond is the winner so far of this two episode arc that we've been through. It occurs to me that maybe he's one of the few people going, havoco, do what you want. Like, what do you want to do? In their one on one, he's like, trust your instincts. Hey, you don't want that wedding to go ahead. Don't let it go ahead. Stop it. You know, what are your instincts? What do you want to happen? And Havoco goes, if only the wedding wouldn't happen. And he's like, all right, say less, King.

[A]

Yeah. And given the emperor is somebody who everyone is always trying to get to do things they want. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, as the Emperor, you have the Duke Richese in your ear. You have Natalia in your ear. You have your daughter saying she wants this. And you're always just doing things that other people are demanding of you. And to have someone come in and say, you want me to murk the kid, I'll murk the kid. Is that what you want?

[B]

Kid's murked. What else do you want?

[A]

The temptation that I think we both saw on screen from Mark Strong in that moment, I think was that temptation to be like, is this someone who will give me what I want?

[B]

It's magical. But I will say, Natalia asks him, who are you loyal to? Who do you serve? And he responds, the Imperium, and only the Imperium, end quote. That kind of stuck out to me, because what the fuck is the Imperium? Where is your loyalty? If you are loyal to some idea of what the Imperium is, Is he loyal to Haviko, or is he loyal to the Imperium? And where does he choose to draw that line? And I think that's going to be at the core of his character. Like, I would be super not surprised if he betrays Havoco at some point, because Havoco starts doing things that are not right for the Imperium. Maybe he will kill Mark Strong. Like, we could see that happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, as a final honorable mention, Yanez continues to be an interesting kind of question. Work for me. She seemed initially really willing and ready to be swept up by the Sisterhood. I'm going to go there. It's going to be great. I'm going to be a truthsayer one day. She also clearly has her own goals. And like, last episode with Pruitt, we saw her drop her mask right when we're married, pull that shit again, I'll stab you myself. And here I got an echo of that. In this episode with Theodosia, when Valya's with them, she's like, please take me away from here. I want to be with the Sisterhood. And then Valya leaves, and she's like, all right, tell me everything. What can you tell me about this thing that's happened to Kasha? She very clearly has her own thing in mind, whether that's holding the person accountable. Maybe she's gonna hunt down Desmond for killing Kasha. Or maybe. I don't know. I'm not sure.

[A]

That's my question is like, how siloed is she in this palace? Does she not know? How does fucking Constantine know about Desmond and she doesn't, you know, isn't her dad right there. Her mom is. How siloed off is she? That was another question I had. Why is Jeanness so out of the loop about everything?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, partially. I think she is more torn up about Pruitt's death than Constantine. Constantine's just sort of like, well, that's interesting. Do I get to get laid? Do I get to fuck something? Oh, that's exciting. So he's. And I think he also has something to prove. He's clearly got a chip on his shoulder, like, oh, my father thinks I don't pay attention, but I paid attention and I heard some cool stuff. So I don't know, we'll have to find out more. So anyway, all of that to say I'm very. I enjoyed this episode. I'm excited to see where episode three takes us. I think from our conversation with the showrunner yesterday, we got some good hints about, like, maybe what's to come. It seems like we're going to be going back a little bit and looking at earlier points with Valya, and I think that might answer some of our questions about, like, what motivates Valya and what motivates Tula. We'll see. I am left with these questions. First, the fur whale tooth that Lila dramatically dropped at the end of the Spice Agony. What is it? How'd Tula get it? And finally, Desmond. Desmond's the big question mark of the series. Shai Hulud apparently took his eye. And Valya says to the Richizian truthsayer, quote, I don't know what's behind him yet. End quote, implying that she suspects there is something behind him. Whether that's a power, maybe it's a religious power, or maybe it's a faction. Maybe she suspects it's like the Ixians or some other faction that we haven't met yet. But that line in particular jumped out at me because they also said that while in a cone of silence. And so for sure, this is something she's trusting only with Bene Gesserit ears. I'm excited to see what they do with episode three. And for sure I could see at the end of this six episode arc it feeling the tempo is kind of weird and whatever, but I'm willing to find out.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I'm along for the ride. I'm in the same boat. I'm definitely along for the ride, wherever the show takes us. Okay, let's take another quick breather, folks. Don't go anywhere though, because when we come back, we're getting into our minutiae segment where we get nerdy about lore. You're going to want to hear this one, so we'll see you in a minute.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by aws. Amazon Q Business is the new generative AI assistant from aws. Many tasks can make business slow, like wading through mud. Help. Luckily, there's a faster, easier, less messy choice. Amazon Q can securely understand your business data to help you streamline tasks like summarizing quarterly results or doing complex analyses in no time. Q got this. Learn what Amazon Q Business can do for [e-mail] learnmore welcome back, everybody. Hope you're ready for some minutiae. Put your fingers together. Get ready to dial in. Pupils dilate. You can tell if I'm lying or not. Starting off with our first minutiae intro, details. So we got our first HBO intro for this show. Very, very cool. Nice little tableau of different scenes, familiar locations, some characters, some motifs from the show so far. But there are some specific things I wanted to shout out, including the bull. Very prominently featured in the first book, the bull was the sort of like, overconfidence and brashness and taking risks of the old duke that led to him being killed by that exact bull that Duke Leto keeps in the dining room to remind himself all the time. We get a brief shot of fur whale carcasses. It appears they're kind of butchered and rotting on the ice house. Harkonnen relies on whale fur and obviously whale come, as we were told in the first episode, for their meager earnings. And this shot may be of Lankevale, which is the first time that we're seeing Lankaveil officially. In this little intro, we also get a shot of a ring, an ornate ring that dissolves to reveal a Gom Jabbar needle.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Now we saw a. That's us. And beyond being our show's namesake, we've seen the needle in preview preview footage of the show. So there is going to be a needle at some point. We're not sure what it's for, but in the Sisterhood's tradition, they use the needle as part of their test to determine who is human, capital H, human, who's able to resist becoming reactive to circumstances. And maybe that's going to be a theme explored by this series. Finally, there is a royal cartsworth of worm imagery, or wormagery, as we call it throughout the intro, appropriate for anything bearing the name.

[A]

That's right. The next bit of minutiae that we want to touch on is Desmond's home planet. Because we do learn that today, in his interrogation with Valya, he reveals that he's from the planet Balut, B A L U T. Which, then, Valya comments, is a harsh world for a child to grow up on.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's rough.

[A]

So we did a bit of research on planet Balut, and to be clear, this is not a planet that shows up in any of Frank's original six books, and it's not a planet that is anywhere in the Dune encyclopedia. So this is a Brian Herbert, Kevin J. Anderson creation. And our research reveals that Balut was a planet that was decimated by thinking machines. And I think the Jihad police, Jaipol, or whatever the fuck they're called, were also involved in this. And it's a planet that has never fully recovered ever since. That might give us a bit of a hint as to what Desmond himself thinks about Decepticon robo geckos, perhaps. If he came from a planet that was attacked during these machine wars or was decimated by the machines, he certainly will harbor some feelings about that, I'm sure. There's also a Tleilaxu connection. The planet's primary city, the capital city, was attacked by this precursor group to the Tleilaxu, stupidly called the Tlalaxu or something. It's just spelled differently. They came in, killed a bunch of people, and captured a bunch of people as slavers. Interesting to see if that will play a role at all. It seems highly unlikely that the Tleilaxu are going to be anywhere near this show, just because that would be an absolutely wild thing to introduce in a TV show like this. It's too much of a deep cut. It's way too dense for the average viewer, and especially in just six episodes. That would be a crazy thing to reveal. But I will say, to give credit to Quinn, who we had on the show last week, it does give a little bit of credence to his theory that Desmond is some sort of ghola or Tleilaxu creation. I think we're both in agreement that we won't see this, but fun to see that there's maybe a very weak, tenuous connection to the Tleilax, who. Based on his home planet.

[B]

Yeah, the Born Twice thing. I was like, oh, maybe that's about a ghola. But then once in blood, once in spice. Just sounds like you're talking about reawakening through the spice agony. Yeah, well, the next morsel, the next minutia that we Want to call out is the Seleucin capital city Zimia beyond looking beautiful? It is by all accounts beautiful. It looks great and is great. Some additional details about the city from Brian's Sisterhood of Dune. The city is one built up after the end of the jihad and features quote monuments honoring the numerous heroes of the long jihad, end quote. Including statues of none other than Vorian Atreides himself. There's also a mention about different like sections of Zimea that have like Buddhist Islamic habitants, which is kind of interesting. But all in all it is all over. Like Sisterhood of Dune, Mintats of Dune. Zimia is the city where Salvador Corrino and Roderick Carino are leading from and where they live. So it's very fun to see it adapted to television. Very cool.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And for Valya, to name drop it too, you know, I gotta go meet our contact in Zimea. She's going downtown to meet Sister Mikayla on that boat.

[B]

Yup.

[A]

I hear the shawarma and Zimea is.

[B]

To die for post credits scene. They're just eating shawarma. Our last minutia for you is shortly after the interrogation of Desmond Hart. Valya meets with the truth Sarah from House Rickese. And when she leaves it, it becomes clear the whole time they were talking, they were under a cone of silence. I loved this little detail. It felt so appropriate and subtle and they didn't point at it and go, hey, Dune fans, look. But it was like used. Well, I loved it. I thought this was great. Some background on cones of silence. They are pretty standard in the Dune universe. According to the Dune Encyclopedia, there were more than 20 cones of silence in the main Harkonnen palace on Giedi prime. End quote. So 10,000 years later, Valya's descendants will love these things. They have them everywhere. Because we love some private talking in the time of Paul Atreides.

[A]

More cones of silences than bathrooms.

[B]

Yeah, you have two bathrooms and 19 cones of silences. You can quietly complain about how there needs to be more bathrooms. No one will hear you. It's great. Now, the cones themselves are a product of ics, according to the Dune Encyclopedia, which isn't really a surprise. Again, ICS is sort of Silicon Valley of the Dune universe. They do all the tech stuff by the time of Paul Atreides. But because of the differences in Brian and Frank early lore dating back 10,000 years, it's a little unclear if that's at play here. Like we've talked about, if, like Desmond Hart is with Ix as opposed to Richese. It seems unlikely they're gonna do that distinction yet, at least based on this.

[A]

Another big group like the Tleilac suit that would be very tough to cram into this show right now.

[B]

Yeah, and maybe we will because they're kind of Rachisi adjacent, but no solid sign yet. So we'll see. Nevertheless, I think this is the kind of thing that is very welcome. These subtle inclusions of Dune tech present in the series and the set dressing. Why didn't we have some cones of silence in the club for like quiet reading nooks?

[A]

You know, you would think like the sex room would be just under a cone of silence for privacy reasons. Yeah, maybe they're pricey, maybe they're expensive. Also, it's a direct connection to the Villeneuve films. Just another way for people to make the connection. Because we saw a cone of silence in the Villeneuve films as well.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Well, that is our my new show that we picked up on in today's episode. In episode two of Dune Prophecy. Of course, there might have been some things we missed, so let us know what you caught and we'll be sure to call it out in Thursday's livestream. Q and A. That's it for today's episode though. That's it for today's breakdown. Hope you enjoyed this one, folks. Lots to talk about in this episode. We're very excited to hear what you think about it. So a couple of reminders here at the end of today's episode. A couple of ways that you can help support us and keep in touch with us. First and foremost, the two best ways to support us is to become a patron. Patreon.com jabbar Access to the discord where things are popping off, where we're doing live watch along chats for these Dune Prophecy episodes ad free episodes. A lot of goodies over there. The second best way is to get yourself some Dune themed swag from our merch store. All of those links will be down in the show notes below, so please check that out.

[B]

Indeed. And as always, we love to hear from you. So whether it is with minutiae we've missed or your takeaways and your feelings about the show, what did you love? What did you hate? Email us gomjabarpodcastmail.com you can drop us a line. We respond in one to three calendar years. We promise that is the Gom Jabbar guarantee and if you have nothing but kind words, that is also acceptable. We put our hearts and souls into this project and hearing that it's enjoyed is lovely. Well friends, there is no real ending, it's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muad'dib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And be sure to check out the other shows on lorepartypodcast.com loreparty.com you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram Loraparty. You can also watch video versions of select episodes on the Lore Party YouTube channel. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Path.