Dune: Prophecy Episode 4

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast - Detailed Summary of "Dune: Prophecy Episode 4"

Podcast Title: Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast
Host/Author: Lore Party Media
Episode: Dune: Prophecy Episode 4
Release Date: December 9, 2024
Hosts: Abu and Leo

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Introduction

In the fourth episode of "Dune: Prophecy," hosts Abu and Leo dive deep into the latest developments of the HBO adaptation of Frank Herbert's seminal work, "Dune." The episode explores intricate plotlines, character motivations, and thematic elements that enrich the sprawling Dune universe. This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and critiques presented by the hosts, providing a comprehensive overview for both longtime fans and newcomers.

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Episode Summary

Opening on Wallach 9

The episode begins on Wallach 9, where tension is palpable following the acolytes' terrifying prophetic dreams. These visions include ominous imagery such as sandworms and dual eyes staring from darkness. A critical moment occurs when Sister Emmaline nearly commits suicide but is saved by Sister Zhen (00:00).

Unraveling the Prophetic Dreams

Later, Tula engages with Emmaline and Sister Jen to decipher the shared nightmares. They suspect the visions are tied to the secret surrounding Sister Dorothea's death and the recent demise of Kasha. Despite Sister Avila's attempts to downplay the events, Tula remains resolute in investigating further (06:13, 07:21).

House Harkonnen's Political Maneuvers

Valya Harkonnen confronts her uncle and nephew, advocating for House Harkonnen to secure its position by introducing a truthsayer. This move is seen as an attempt to manipulate the Landsraad Council and elevate House Harkonnen's influence (07:57, 08:15). The hosts highlight the visual metaphor of Griffin's portrait looming over Harrow, symbolizing the pressure to live up to family legacy (08:16).

Desmond Hart's Authoritarian Crackdown

Desmond Hart intensifies his crackdown on machine sympathizers, burning captured tech smugglers and enforcing strict adherence to anti-technology laws. This culminates in a dramatic display during the Landsraad meeting, where Desmond openly admits to executing a machine sympathizer, showcasing his ruthless leadership (27:28, 28:14).

Valya's Emotional Confrontation

A pivotal scene features Valya confronting her uncle Evgeny, revealing her deep-seated anger and guilt over family betrayals. Valya declares, "I will not apologize for what I did, and I will not apologize for my strength," showcasing her unwavering resolve and complex character traits (65:00).

Shapeshifting Revelation

In a surprising twist, Sister Theodosia shapeshifts back into herself after an emotional exchange with Valya, hinting at deeper layers of intrigue within the sisterhood (35:22).

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Notable Quotes

• Leo: "Sometimes you have to burn a thing to the ground before you can rebuild it." (07:37)

• Abu: "The terror so crippling that the mind screams to save itself." (60:54)

• Valya Harkonnen: "I will not apologize for what I did, and I will not apologize for my strength." (65:00)

• Desmond Hart: "Yes, I killed the Pruitt boy, but it was not murder. It was a justified execution against a machine sympathizer." (27:29)

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Hosts' Reactions and Insights

What Worked Well

Leo commends the episode's ability to instill fear and tension through scenes like the group meditation gone wrong and the haunting imagery of the acolytes' nightmares. He appreciates the strong character development of Valya, highlighting her confrontational nature and emotional depth. The visual storytelling, particularly during intense moments, received high praise for aligning with Villeneuve's aesthetic while adding unique elements (38:14).

Abu finds the Wallach 9 segments particularly engaging, intrigued by the sisters' prophetic visions and the underlying mystery surrounding them. He lauds the show's commitment to rich set designs and costuming that enhance the storytelling. Additionally, he enjoys the lore connections made to House Vernius and the technological prowess of the Ixians (42:03).

What Didn't Work

Abu expresses significant disappointment with the palace intrigue and Desmond's subplot, citing poor writing and lackluster character portrayals. He criticizes the episode for juggling too many plotlines within a short season, leading to rushed narratives that fail to provide meaningful developments. The portrayal of the Ixian character as a comical villain undermines the expected depth (43:31, 51:06).

Leo echoes these sentiments, especially regarding inconsistent writing and the unconvincing depiction of certain characters. He likens some scenes to "Green Arrow" episodes, detracting from the Dune universe's gravitas. He also expresses frustration over the slow pacing and unresolved major plot points, which diminish the episode's impact (49:13, 55:02).

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Takeaways

Leo's Analysis: Fear as the Mind Killer

Leo delves into the recurring theme of fear, drawing parallels to the iconic Dune quote, "Fear is the mind killer." He examines how characters like Havoco are driven by fear, leading to actions that destabilize their worlds. Leo suggests that the show might be setting the stage for the origin of the "Litany Against Fear," potentially as a countermeasure to Desmond's manipulative powers (56:41 - 62:36).

Abu's Insight: Power vs. Strength

Abu focuses on Valya's misunderstanding of power and strength, analyzing her belief that force equals strength. He contrasts this with softer notions of power demonstrated by other characters, highlighting Valya's aggressive approach as a flaw. Abu posits that this dynamic reflects the evolving strategies within the sisterhood and the broader Imperium, hinting at future developments where subtlety and strategy may prevail over brute force (63:04 - 69:17).

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Minutiae: Lore Easter Eggs

House Vernius

The mention of House Vernius ties into the broader Dune lore, referencing its control over Planet IX and its eventual dissolution by House Atreides. This nod connects the current narrative to prequel books and emphasizes the intricate political landscape of the Dune universe (75:19).

Ixians

The episode introduces Ixians as tech-savvy innovators breaking Butlerian prohibitions. Their portrayal aligns with the traditional depiction of Ixians as the "Silicon Valley" of Dune, pushing ethical boundaries with technologies like the hunter seeker. This emphasis on technological advancement underscores the ongoing conflict between progress and tradition (75:19).

Padishah

Javico Carino holds the title "Padishah, Emperor of the Known Universe," incorporating Persian terminology that reflects Dune's Middle Eastern influences. This detail enriches the cultural tapestry of the Imperium and pays homage to Frank Herbert's original world-building (77:43).

Conley

The term Conley is used to define formal feuds or vendettas governed by the Great Convention's strict rules. Harrow Harkonnen's reference to Conley during the Landsraad meeting highlights the structured nature of warfare and political conflicts within the Dune universe, emphasizing calculated and rule-bound engagements (78:36).

Shai Hulud

Shai Hulud, referring to the sandworms, is depicted as both a deity and a destructive force within Fremen mythology. Desmond's fear of the "Leviathan from the sands" evokes the complex relationship between the Fremen and their environment, blending reverence with survival instincts (81:10).

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Conclusion

"Dune: Prophecy Episode 4" intricately weaves fear, power dynamics, and prophetic mysteries within the established Dune lore. While Abu and Leo appreciate the episode's thematic depth and visual mastery, they express frustration over inconsistent writing and underdeveloped subplots. The hosts' insightful analyses and attention to lore details provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the episode's strengths and shortcomings. As the season progresses, expectations rise for the resolution of tangled plotlines and deeper character explorations, promising an engaging continuation of the Dune saga.

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Note: For those interested in supporting "Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast," consider becoming a patron at patreon.com/gomjabbar or explore merchandise options through their official store.

Transcript

[Leo]

Today on the show, we've seen desert owls swoop down and rip soldiers necks with their talons. We've seen the scorpions, the wandering spiders, the wasps. But when the Leviathan from the sands begins recording its podcast, one must listen and listen closely. Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe. From Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name is Leo.

[Abu]

And my name's Abu.

[Leo]

And today on the show we are back with Dune Prophecy episode four. The wandering spiders and all. And a bunch more people burning our backs. Folks are bleeding. Everything's going off the rails. But before we get too far into it, let's take care of our housekeeping. Let's make Shout Out Mapes proud.

[Abu]

That's right. Starting off with a spoiler warning for today's discussion. Folks, today's episode will contain spoilers for Dune Prophecy episodes one through four. Make sure you've watched. And for Brian Herbert's prequel book Sisterhood of Dune, we also recommend you've seen Denis Villeneuve's movies and read the book Dune by Frank Herbert.

[Leo]

And a huge shout out as always to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons. Rob Silver, Daniel Dion, Jonathan Lambert and C.R. spruill. Folks, we'd like to elevate you to the High Council itself. That's right. What need you do? Nothing. You're so generous. You're so kind. You're so giving. You've earned your spots and we're going to actually kill and out other great houses just to make room for you. And you know, Lancerat be damned. They can claim that we're biased. We are. You're the best.

[Abu]

We are.

[Leo]

Thank you. We appreciate you.

[Abu]

Sorry. Not sorry.

[Leo]

Sorry. Not sorry at all.

[Abu]

Of course, our gratitude extends to all of our patrons. If we could burn the whole Landsraad to the ground and just install our patrons, we would.

[Leo]

Sometimes you have to burn a thing to the ground before you can rebuild it.

[Abu]

Lessons about we also want to remind everyone that if you don't have the ability to become a monthly supporter on Patreon right now, that's okay because we have another way that you can show your appreciation and help make this show possible. Check out the show notes for a link to our Buy me a coffee page where you can buy us a spice coffee. It's just a one time tip. You decide how much that tip is. It's a great little way of saying thank you and letting us know you appreciate all the work we put into this show.

[Leo]

Indeed. Now, as always, here is the overview for today's episode. First up, we're going to quickly summarize the events of episode four of Dune Prophecy. Then we will share some like things that we liked, things that we wish could have been a little bit better. And we'll finally wrap up with our minutiae little lore tidbits that we spotted along the way. But before we get into it, we're going to take a quick break, so don't go anywhere. We haven't even started the episode yet. We'll be right back right after this.

[Abu]

Hey folks, Abu and Leo here from the Gom Jabbar Podcast here to tell you about another Dune podcast that we think you're going to love.

[Leo]

It's called the Official Dune Prophecy Podcast. It's from the fine folks at hbo. And of course the HBO Original series is going to be focusing on that shadowy sisterhood that of course becomes everyone's favorite Benny Jeserit on the companion podcast.

[Abu]

Hosts Greta Johnson and Ahmed Ali Akbar are going to guide you through every episode of the HBO Original Series and unpack each episode with guests from the show including cast and crew.

[Leo]

So if you're listening to our podcast Gom Jabbar, you're probably already a huge Dune fan. We think you'll enjoy the series and their companion podcast. It's a fresh take on an incredible universe and we're all gonna go places we've never seen before.

[Abu]

That's right. And if you're a podcast listener, you know the drill. Listen to the official Dune Prophecy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to stream new episodes of the HBO Original series Dune Prophecy exclusively on max. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini, which with the Gemini app you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini Live. Welcome back folks. Let's start today with a quick summary of episode four to refresh your memory. This episode of Dune prophecy opens on Wallach 9, which is abuzz after all of the acolytes experienced a terrifying and possibly prophetic dream and or vision. Yeah, in a horrifying scene, we see that Emmaline, Sister Emmaline nearly kills herself, nearly stabs herself with a knife, similar to the way Dorothea died next to that pool. But at the very last second, Sister Zhen rushes in and is able to stop her and save her life and seemingly wake her up from some sort of trance that she was stuck in.

[Leo]

Right. Yeah.

[Abu]

Now, later on in the episode, we'll see Tula speaking with Emmaline, speaking with Sister Jen, and trying to understand what the hell happened last night. All of the acolytes were having the same. What they were seeing who. And it's shocking stuff. I think there's another layer here that what they're perhaps witnessing or describing is a little too similar to the secret that Tula and Valya and Sister Avila and all those conspirators are holding onto. Which is the truth of how Sister Dorothea died all those years ago, and.

[Leo]

Also the truth of how Kasha died very recently, where she. It started with a terrifying vision and a dream.

[Abu]

Yeah. Now, after this little meeting in the office, Sister Emmaline and Jen are sent away and told not to worry about this and not to incite panic. And then Sister Avila, in fact, turns to Tula and says, leave this alone. Don't. Just don't fuck with this. It'll go away. Don't tamper with it. Which is precisely what Tula is not gonna do.

[Leo]

Good. Fucking good. Avila's out here with bad advice. Oh. A sister recently died. Prophetic vision. Dream killed by fear. All of the acolytes just had a terrifying dream. Leave it alone. It'll blow over. Fuck off, Avila.

[Abu]

Ridiculous.

[Leo]

Yeah, ridiculous. Well, over on. I guess, still salusa secundus. I think they're kind of in the. Like, the Harkonnen house. Like, I don't think they're on Lankevale, are they?

[Abu]

No, no, no. This feels like. Like the Harkonnen embassy or the Harkness.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's what I got. Valya is with the Harkonnens, and she has a confrontational meeting with her uncle and nephew, proposing that it's time for House Harkonnen, it's time to correct the mistake. House Harkonnen now gets its very own truthsayer.

[Abu]

Hello?

[Leo]

I mean, listen, if you're celebrating already, I've got some even better news for you, okay? It's gonna be the Mother Superior herself. Hello? Hello? All caps. Very exciting. Now, at one point, she might as well have said, sister Theodosia, can you please fucking eviscerate my nephew? Just tear this poor man to shreds. Because Theodosia does. She's like, turns out, Haru Harkonnen, what he wants more than anything is to be respected, and he fears being mocked. And because of that, Valya is able to say, well, how about this? What if I get you a seat on the High Council? Wouldn't that be fucking crazy? And Hara Harkonnen's like, yo, if you can do that, sure, I'm all ears. Now, throughout this scene, I just wanted to point out I really appreciate the placement of Griffin's portrait. This portrait of Griffin Harkonnen is looming over Harrow's shoulder. I'm sure he was told his whole life about this beloved uncle who died because of the machinations of his aunt, who's now abandoned the family. So I liked this kind of visual metaphor of Harrow living with Griffin just kind of looming over his shoulder. That's who he has to live up to. That's cool. Now, over at the Carinos, they are having an equally confrontational breakfast meal at one of the most beautiful waterfall terraces I've ever seen in my goddamn life. And Yanez shows up and straight up is like, yo, I don't feel safe in my own home. A child was murdered and rumor is it was this fucking guy who did it. Desmond, at this little breakfast conversation is like, yeah, I fucking did it. And it wasn't a murder. It was the correct punishment for having illicit technology, for having forbidden thinking machine technology. Now, the final bit here is that House Corrino is gearing up for hosting the great houses of the Landsraad, the High Council. Everyone's coming together to meet, to talk about things. All of this is about to happen. And we even get a little sense of that with the line that Havoco says to Yanez, we need to present a unified front for the Landsraad. We need to appear strong right now and united as House Corrino, as the Imperial House, because all these outside people are going to be here looking at us, judging us. And again, these are the people that Javako is afraid of because he's afraid of being seen as weak and not living up to his father, blah, blah, blah, right?

[Abu]

Which, in fact, we learn in the very following scene because we then meet Desmond Hart as he is casually tearing apart and burning one of Kasha's old sisterhood books that was laying around, in my opinion, his greatest crime to date. And the Emperor comes in and they chat. It's just two dudes, two bros, having a bit of a heart to heart. In this moment, Havoco sits Down, he admits his feelings of insecurity, feeling like he has huge shoes to fill. He'll never live up to his great ancestors. One ancestor was a war hero, another ancestor a great so and so. And he's just a nobody. Nobody respects him. Desmond tries to use this moment to basically convince the Emperor to be more assertive. You're the boss, my guy. Act like it. Rule with an iron fist. Assert that what you say goes. And when people don't listen, use me. I'll be your weapon. Yeah, put me out there, coach. And we both get what we want, right? For what it's worth, though, the Emperor is still cautious. And he says, no, no, no, no, no. Not yet. Not. Not right now. This is not the time to be hasty. Landsraad meeting's happening. We're going to play this by the book. He's not ready to commit to any sort of ruthless actions as Emperor yet.

[Leo]

I got a little bit of a sense, too, that his hesitance is because this is so clearly something on Desmond's shoulders, right? Like, Desmond is the one burning Sisterhood books. He's been anti Sisterhood the whole time he killed Kasha. It's like he's going, you should remove all truthsayers from the Landsraad period. And Havoco's still kind of trying to. I got the impression this was partially also him perceiving as. Are you bringing this to me, or is this, like. Is this something I really need to be worried about, or is this like a you thing? And then the. I'm not ready to act on this because I don't see it as necessary yet, because it's not. It's not yet related to his needs. Right. This is still something that is being motivated by Desmond's desires or Desmond's vendetta.

[Abu]

I mean, Desmond certainly hasn't been shy about his hatred of the Sisterhood. He's not exactly being subtle. You know, I'm the only one that can tell you the truth. I would never use the truth against you.

[Leo]

Or like the first episode, right, where he was like, I thought those witches knew everything, right? About Kasha. Yeah, Right.

[Abu]

Now, meanwhile, we cut out to a nondescript alley in the city in Zimea, where we see Kieran and his rebel friend who we met earlier, who we affectionately nicknamed Hulk Hogan. They meet up with an Ixian tech smuggler who gives them, in exchange for many Solaris, an autonomous hunter seeker. Ish looking little drone bomb thing, which, of course, is very advanced thinking machine technology and very, very illegal.

[Leo]

Yeah, well, over with Valya, she is recording a vulnerable, really heartfelt voice memo to DM her sister, but ultimately deletes it right as she's saying, like, I could really use you here. It would really help her for you to be here. And you've all been there.

[Abu]

With an ex.

[Leo]

Oh, my God, with an ex. She's texting her sister. You're like, ugh, toxic relationship vibes. I get it. That's so funny. Yeah. So she ends up deleting it, or she ejects the little memory card and breaks it. Now, Theodosia's there to give a report. Well, Mikaela reports that they've got this little thermal bomb hunter seeker. And Valya's like, all right, yeah, sounds good. Sounds very preventable. And her plan is to swoop in, be the savior, reveal the plot and save everyone's lives. And. And through doing so, she will be back in the good graces of House.

[Abu]

Corrino and throw Kieran Atreides to the wolves as well.

[Leo]

And throw Ciaran Atreides to the wolves. Something I get the impression she is all too happy to do.

[Abu]

Oh, yeah.

[Leo]

Now, although the Sisters didn't start these rumors, these kind of spreading rumors about Pruitt Richesi dying, she decides that they are going to take advantage of it, and they use their Truthsayers in this kind of fun montage of, like, whispering and manipulating to bring the other members of the High Council to particular Houses. They are going to bring House Harkonnen onto the High Council at the cost of. House Harkonnen has to open an official inquiry into the death of Pruitt Rachesi, naming Desmond and House Corrino as potentially the perpetrator of the murder.

[Abu]

Yeah, this was a weak point of the episode for me, for sure. I found some of this Sister scheming to be kind of unbelievable. Like, the question that. The questions that come to mind for me here are why no one in the Landsraad is questioning why the Mother Superior of the Sisterhood itself is suddenly working again with her own House. Like, is there no conflict of interest? There? Are there no rules or laws that you can't cross this ethical barrier and use your power to help your own House. The fact that later in the episode, we'll see Harrow has been given a seat with the help of this pair of counselors. No one is objecting to that. The. No one is objecting to suddenly House Harkonnen being elevated. Clear, like, very blatantly because of the Mother Superior's involvement. We even get the sense that both Harrow and what's his name, Evgeny the uncle, are, like, aware that the sisterhood manipulates people.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So I'm like, okay, if House Harkonnen, who are a bunch of nobodies, are aware that the Sisterhood manipulates people quite blatantly, why is everyone else, in particular these two other Council members, just, like, trusting everything their sisters say implicitly and just going along with it? It certainly works in their favor. So I will grant it that. It feeds into a desire that they have as well to move against House Corrino. So it's a favorable political move. But, I don't know, it all. It all feels a little clunky, you know, it feels like a very, like, amateurish politicking. I'm not seeing, like, the sophistication that I would expect or the long term planning or the subtlety that I would expect of the sisterhood. It's. This montage didn't work for me because it just raised all of these clunky questions about why everyone is just kind of going along with this and not smart enough to question things more.

[Leo]

Yeah, I had. So I. Cause I saw this comment and I definitely had a moment when the two High Council members come out of the elevator and they go, oh, Reverend Mother Superior didn't expect to see you here. And she's like, yeah, I'm working for House Harkonnen now. Like, that moment also. Similarly, I was like, is this fine?

[Abu]

Isn't that a huge red flag?

[Leo]

Isn't that a huge red flag? But my follow up kind of considerations were first, exactly what you said. What the Bene Gesserit, the Truthsayers have done is they have actually just outlined what things have happened. House Richese has left the High Council and is not pressing charges about the mysterious death of their child. Isn't that fucking strange? And probably they've sussed out correctly. The Emperor was complicit in the murder of this child and the heir of a great House and a powerful family. And they're saying, you know, that Corrino's, like, in on this. And the two guys are like, wow, that's fucked up. We need to do something about it. Yeah, someone should open an inquiry. But we don't want to get in trouble. So what they have done is they've given them truth, and with that truth, they have made the decision that someone needs to call them out and we need a scapegoat. And so everything they've done, even if people are manipulating, that doesn't Change the fact that this is the only way I can protect my House moving forward is making sure someone attempts to hold the House Corrino accountable for this shit that's happened. The other possibility, which I think is less likely the more I think about it, is that the whisper rumor and the bad impression of the Bene Gesserit is specifically a House Harkonnen thing because Valia left and quote unquote, abandoned House Harkonnen for the Bene Gesserit. So this is a. Because Valya is there. They're like, oh, these fucking manipulators. She betrayed us and she left us. Maybe that's a specifically House Harkonnen thing. That's fair.

[Abu]

Those are all good points.

[Leo]

Nevertheless, I think there is a moment of like, oh, they're really being bold about this in a way that might be a little clumsy. Anyway, now back to Our summary on Wallach 9. Tula decides to do sort of a guided meditation, art therapy session, collective drug trip, where everyone's going to draw their dreams. And in an excellent and really scary scene.

[Abu]

This is great.

[Leo]

The acolytes are all stuck in their trance. They are, you know, she tries to call them back and fails, fully fails. The sisters are drawing. You know, they go from their individual drawings to visions of sand, of the gaping maw of Shai Hulud, of worms, sandworms, and the final. The pair of eyes staring out at them from the dark black of the charcoal on paper.

[Abu]

Right.

[Leo]

It also occurred to me earlier, Jen lies about not having a dream, right? Not having a nightmare. She woke up alarmed and just like all the other sisters. And she, when she is asked by Tula, says, you'd have to ask the other sisters because I didn't have a nightmare. She naturally, that's a little sketchy. And maybe as a result of that, Tula omits her from the group sketch therapy, which feels like kind of an intentional. Her nightmare. Her specific vision is going to be important later.

[Abu]

Yeah, we're setting up Jen for something for sure. The fact that she was omitted is not without reason.

[Leo]

Yeah, it would be interesting to see what she would have drawn. And of course, the person. And I also appreciate Sister Emmaline has been the one to throw out quotes from religious texts for the entire series. She did the same thing with Lila's spice agony or Lila's agony. She says immediately, they're all looking at these terrifying eyes out of the darkness. God is watching us, judging us. The reckoning is here. End quote. And I'm like, all right, all Right. You just came out of a drug trance. Like, give it a fucking second before you start analyzing. But some huge Leto II vibes here. Right? We've talked about how these two eyes peering out of the darkness feels very like Leto, too. Well, that is God is watching us. God is judging us. That sort of omniscient, prescient being who is constantly aware of everything you're doing is very Leto II energy. For sure.

[Abu]

Yeah, for sure. Now, returning to the palace, we get a scene where Empress Natalia comes to Desmond's office and reveals to him and to us that she has been the one spreading these rumors about the Pruitt boys murder. And she also gives Desmond Imperial surveillance data about machine dealers trading in illegal technology, as she says, much like our Ixian friend from earlier we saw in the alleyway. And Desmond takes the data and she's like, now is not the time to be lenient. Now is when we go hard in the paint. Now is when we crush the machine sympathizers and actually clamp down on this illegal machine trade that's running rampant. And so Desmond does exactly that in a quick scene right after we see him do his Bashar duties. Order the security forces to go out into the city and use this surveillance data to capture these machine sympathizers to bring them to justice.

[Leo]

Indeed. Now, Yanez, of course, all of those sympathizers are at Ducklurb. And we too return to Ducklerb, in which we're all famous. Yanez finds Kieran and admits that she's conflicted and confused about what to do about her father and Desmond. And he tells her to do the right thing. And he's trying to do the right thing, even if that means disobeying her father and moving against her own family. Quote. Sometimes you have to burn a thing down before you can save it. End quote. Okay, Kieran, he nearly says, sometimes you have to put a thermal self guided autonomous drone into the vents and blow up a whole family before you can. Before. Before you can save it. And she's like, say that again. And he's like, you know the classic idiom, the thing we always say? So Yanez takes this to heart and seeks out her hot half brother, Constantine, and basically tries to unify as siblings her move against, effectively, her father and his right hand man, Desmond. And he reluctantly agrees. Meanwhile, sister Theodosia confronts Valya about why she was brought to Salusa. And she goes, I didn't bring you here to ask me all these questions. It's like, all right, fair. I Asked you two questions. Huge defensive overreaction, but fine. Why did you bring me here? Now Valya goes, you know why I brought you here. And Theodosia has a very emotional reaction to that. It was your promise to me that I would never have to do insert blank here ever again. It's our secret. You agreed it was a condition for me becoming a sister. And Valya goes, well, your talent. It's not a talent. Not a talent. It's an abomination curse. I'm a werewolf or something. But Valya, very. And I appreciated. I think the acting here was also excellent, where she said, listen, okay, not a talent. It's a last resort. I won't ask you unless I absolutely need to, because we're up against something that can destroy us. I don't know how to beat Desmond. I do not know how to defeat him, and I may need your. Whatever we want to call it. Nevertheless, Theodosia is clearly pissed about this. She goes, you've already asked me, basically, and leaves it there, like, how dare you.

[Abu]

Just by bringing me here, you've practically already asked me to do a thing that I swore I never would again. You know?

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

It's a icky type of manipulation. Well, from there, we finally get to this Landsraad meeting that we've been prepping for this whole episode. Everyone gathers, and this, obviously is sort of the convergence point where all of these schemes we've watched throughout the episode will finally come to a head. Yeah, Harrow does his thing. He stands up. He throws out his request for an inquiry into Pruitt's death. To everyone's surprise, before he can name exactly who he's accusing of Pruitt's death, Yanez steps forward and boldly accuses her own family for being complicit in this murder. But Desmond quickly shuts all of the chaos down and takes control of the room by parading in a number of these tech smugglers that he has captured, including Hulk Hogan, including our exene friend from earlier.

[Leo]

Right?

[Abu]

And Desmond kind of pulls the same move he's been pulling ever since we met him. He admits to the murder. Now to the entire Landsraad body. He says, yes, I killed the Pruitt boy, but it was not murder. It was a justified execution against a machine sympathizer.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And with a dramatic flourish, he brings out the drone, the bomb drone thing. And he's like the very same machines that would have blown all of your asses up if I hadn't prevented it.

[Leo]

Ugh. Ugh.

[Abu]

What a drama. King. I mean, you love to see it.

[Leo]

He had glitter in his pockets, too. He was like, and that's why I'm here. Flourish.

[Abu]

Yeah, right. Travis Fimmel really chewing up the scenery in this moment here.

[Leo]

God damn, I goddamn love it. The Wandering Spiders.

[Abu]

Yeah, he's doing a whole bit and it's really working. And I will say, he's really giving Manfred Tyrando here. For folks who have read Sisterhood of Dune and know that character who isn't present in the show by. If you have read Sisterhood of Dune early on in that book, there's a whole chapter where Manfred goes to a Landsraad Council and demands that everyone commit to drawing a hard line against thinking machines. Because in the book, he's a character who hates thinking machines. He's the leader of the Butlerians. That is exactly what Desmond does here as well. He declares that a hard line will be drawn against thinking machines. And then he proves his point by saying, we're gonna start right now. He burns the captured tech smugglers and one of the counselors, too, I think.

[Leo]

Yeah. And to be clear, with Havoco's blessing. With his, like, at your command, my liege. And he kind of clumsily bows. And Havoco, after a moment's consideration's like, yeah, uh huh. Yeah. Burn some fellas.

[Abu]

And burn he does. He burns the rebels and that counselor. But then we see Desmond fall to his knees. Clearly, this ability takes something out of him. And we even see blood seeping through his jacket. There's also a moment where we get a quick flash. It felt more like vision and less like a real flashback to an actual event, but we see the worm sort of consuming him. We see the blue eyes once more converging into one single eye. And then the very close up shot of Desmond's one magical eye that he apparently uses for his powers, or that Shai Hulud gave him. So we get some imagery there and some more hints and teasing as to what may have actually happened to Desmond on Arrakis.

[Leo]

I do love the POV of Shai Hulud, like, coming in, you see the thumpers on either side, the dead bodies scattered. Really fun. I also wanted to point out, for the first time, the two eyes now are reflecting a little bit on a surface in that shot. So it's sort of like we're getting just tiny, tiny incremental details more.

[Abu]

And the mechanical whirring, to me at least, is starting to sound a bit more like words, too. Still sort of indecipherable, but it's yeah, because I was like, oh, I got to turn the subtitles on. The blue eyes actually said something this time. And it's still nothing in the subtitle, so they're not revealing anything. But to me, it sounded like there might have been some, like, garbled words within there as well. So I think you're right. We're getting like tiny, tiny increments of what that could be.

[Leo]

Now, back on Wallach 9, we see the aforementioned scene where Sister Emmaline gathers a group of sisters to read from the OC Bible under a cone of silence. And she says, although Dorothea killed herself in sorrow, her beliefs live on. And this is where I'm wondering, does she believe that or is she just kind of sticking to what she's been told?

[Abu]

Yeah, this felt out of left field for sure.

[Leo]

For sure. And interesting. So Dorothea's kind of rebel group survives through Emeline and these other sisters. And Tula then has a vision of Emmaline confronting her about Dorothea's death. I loved the Emmaline coming around the corner. And then the sand begins to fall. We start to get that, like, Inception style visual cue that this is a dream vision.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And after literally killing one of her students to protect the secrets in this dream vision, she wakes to find that Lila is gone from the spice tank.

[Abu]

Oh.

[Leo]

Lila, clearly a drama school student, learned dramatic reveals didn't just immediately get up and wake Tula. She wandered into the darkness.

[Abu]

Good point.

[Leo]

Goes off into the darkness somewhere. Tula has to then, with her knife drawn, be like, what the fuck is happening? You know? She wakes up Anirul, the AI tree robot, and all the, like, digital trees illuminate the room to reveal a confused gray, blue eyed. Lila was not sure if this is like, eyes of a bad or something else. Yeah. Kind of an interesting visual effect. And asks, where am I? Which? Good fucking question. You're the one who walked into the darkness. Why didn't she wake up? Tula.

[Abu]

Tula's there. Wake me up. Next time, just nudge me awake.

[Leo]

Tula's in that chair, just. And you're like, wandering into the darkness. Very strange. But it's fine. Works for a dramatic reveal. And of course, there's this great shot of all of the computer systems might literally be visualizations of family trees and bloodlines and all sorts of cool data.

[Abu]

Fun, like holographic tree imagery for a breeding index that monitors family trees.

[Leo]

Yeah, it's kind of fun.

[Abu]

Now, to round out this episode, in our final climactic scene, we get a quick shot of Valya telling Theodosia that she has acquired a sample of Desmond's blood. She found this, like, bloody rag with his blood on it. And that they, you know, they gotta ship it off to 23andMe, do a quick DNA test and find out who this guy actually is.

[Leo]

Wow. 1% Mongolian. That's cool.

[Abu]

Oh, my God, we're related. If we go back far now.

[Leo]

Wow, that's so cool. That's so neat. They're like, so what are you going to do about his fucking psychic powers? He's like, I got no clue. But he's 12% Northern European, so, like.

[Abu]

How fun is that?

[Leo]

How fun is that? That's so cool. 3% Neanderthal.

[Abu]

Whoa.

[Leo]

That's more than 80% of people.

[Abu]

But it does feel like this is setting up that we're finally, I think, episode five, we are going to get Desmond backstory. We are going to finally learn about Desmond Hart in the next episode. And this feels like it is setting that up. Laying the first brick of that reveal. We then get this very emotional. I'm going to talk more about this in my takeaway, but just to briefly summarize it here. We get this emotional standoff between Valya and her uncle. She lets her uncle die and then looks over and sees her brother Griffin walk in.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And for a second, it's kind of played like a vision. You know, you're watching it, you're like, okay, another vision. Tool. Legislation.

[Leo]

Another memory or whatever. Yeah. Or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

And. But then she goes over and then physically hugs Griffin. They embrace each other, they talk to each other. And you're like, oh, shit, what is happening? What is happening is Griffin is actually Sister Theodosia.

[Leo]

The last possibility. I fucking considered it.

[Abu]

Wild. After exchanging some words and a hug, Sister Theodosia walks away. We see her transform shapeshift, face dance, question mark, back into herself. And that's where we cut to credits. We. And on that dramatic reveal.

[Leo]

Yeah, that conversation was interesting to watch twice. Because the first time, all of the lines make sense about, like, Griffin and what he did and going after Vorian and did she push him too far? Did she ask too much? He says, I own my own decisions. Which has so much emotional resonance after this hugely emotional fight with her uncle. And then you go back and you rewatch the scene knowing it's Theodosia and. And she's going, I understand what you had to sacrifice to get to this point, and I will do what you. You know, don't worry. I'm making this decision for myself. And blah blah blah. So it was kind of an interesting conversation that had two layers.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah, very clearly had two layers. One for Griffin and one for Theodosia. For sure. Every line worked for both.

[Leo]

Yeah. Which is. Which was kind of fun. But yeah, definitely a fucking wild way to end the episode and asks some. Absolutely. Some highliner sized questions that are now floating in orbit around this watching experience for sure. Now we are going to take a quick break now that our summary is done and we've got some what worked, what didn't work and our takeaways and of course also minutiae coming up. So don't go anywhere, dear listener. We'll be right back right after this. This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Get stoked for all the holly jolly vibes this season at Dutch Bros. Stay cozy with returning winter faves. Hazelnut truffle mocha and candy cane mocha. Plus the new winter Shimmer Rebel energy drink blends up sweet cream and blue razz flavor with soft top and shimmer sprinks to keep those spirits energized all winter long. Download the Dutch Bros app to find your nearest shop. Order ahead and start earning rewards. Baking Hershey's Kisses peanut butter blossoms is.

[Abu]

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[Leo]

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[Abu]

Welcome back, folks. Let's continue our discussion about Dune Prophecy episode four, starting by sharing our impressions of this episode. What we thought worked and what we thought didn't work. Yeah, I'll let you kick it off for us, Leo. What in this episode clicked for you?

[Leo]

You know, I'm still having fun. I was having a great time watching this. I liked the group meditation scene. It was so scary. So like, just excellent. Really haunting. The fact that she's losing control and that she's backing up. I think the show does scary stuff really well. I had a similar feeling when Tula wakes up to find the spice chamber empty. I was like, what the fuck's happening in that whole sequence? So I was shaken in my little boots a few times in this episode. Really enjoying that element. The idea of peeling back layers of fear and prophecy feels very apropos for Dune. And I've heard discussions of how a lot of our fears in life are just the fear of death wearing different masks and how this kind of theory of what fear is from a survival standpoint all feels very human and feels very resonant for me. I really appreciated the conversations around, like, shaping the future you want and correcting histories. Obviously, that's very resonant with, like, Leto's words in God, Emperor of Dune. But in this episode, Valya is talking about, you know, fixing the history of the cowardly. The Cowards of Corhyn, right? House Harkonnen, the Cowards of Corhyn. Fixing that and creating this future that they want. Desmond similarly goes emperor Havoco, what do you want the history to say about you? You get to create that future yourself right now. And then also, Natalia is like, say what you will about the Bene Gesserit, but they create the futures they want. And I respect that about them. And that's what we should be doing right now as well. So I enjoyed that. We had these different characters all kind of speaking to a central theme of what do the histories get wrong? What do they get right? Shape the future you want, and when people look back on now, what will they say? All very cool and felt very appropriate to Dune. Couple of little moments I really liked. I mentioned it already. Valya, her being sassy with her uncle was so funny to me. Gives very family drama at Thanksgiving energy. I laughed out loud. I was like, oh, my God, she's fucking starting shit over the breakfast table. This is great. Haru. Harkonnen's reaction to the moment. The room laughs at House. Harkonnen's familiarity with Conley I thought was excellent. We get that set up that he hates when people laugh at him or don't respect him. And then he is in this moment where he's got the floor at the Lance Rat, all of the most powerful people in the universe, and he decides, fuck it. Yeah, I'm going forward with this because y'all just laughed at me. I'm throwing down a challenge of Conley, right? I thought that was great. Travis Flamel, the Wandering Spiders, is going to be with me until the day I die. I love how much fun he's having in this episode. Episode. He is so dramatic. I fucking love it. It's so much fun. I also now want to go back and rewatch Vikings because I really enjoyed him in that as well. And the last thing I'll say, no gratuitous sex scene this time. Hey, look at that, hbo. Good job, buddy. I know how hard it is to leave out the banging, but they left it out this time, which was great. And some of the musical cues I even loved during the conversation where the high Council members are talking with Haru Harkonnen. I loved it. It was kind of comedic, kind of light, kind of bouncy, and it left space for the. You've demonstrated a lot of prowess during your trade of whalefur. That line read with the music. I was having a blast. So those are some of the things I really liked. What about you? What do you think worked well in this episode?

[Abu]

I have a pretty short list. Unfortunately, I'm quite sad to say most of this episode didn't work for me. I greatly disliked this episode for various reasons, some of which we'll share shortly. But to just kind of highlight what I did like, I was definitely pretty locked in and pretty intrigued. Whenever we cut back to Wallach 9, I'm very interested in what's going on with the sisters, these dreams the acolytes are having. What's with the wyrm imagery and the two eyes? Who is this God who is watching? What is this reckoning that's coming in particular, I'm dying to know what's going on with Lila. Right. She's out of the tank, she's up and walking around. What does it mean? That's all very intriguing and definitely has its hooks in me, so the Wallach 9 stuff really works for me. I also want to continue to shout out the visuals and the costuming and the set design of this show. It's been spectacular from Jump, and it continues to be great here in this episode. And I think they've made some very strong and some very smart visual storytelling choices that tie it very nicely to Villeneuve's aesthetic, but also add a little bit of their own flavor on top. So I have been enjoying that a lot as well.

[Leo]

Yeah, agreed, totally. What about things that you didn't like?

[Abu]

This is where the list is longer, but I'll try to keep it quite broad and summarize my thoughts here. But basically, everything about the palace scheme and Desmond, anytime we basically cut away from Wallach 9 didn't work for me in this episode. It veered from sort of like, boring to bad to meandering to like. It never hooked me in any way. And even on a rewatch, I found my eyes, like, I felt my eyes just, like, glazing over, or the temptation to just pick up my phone and scroll during those scenes. It wasn't working in particular. I really gotta call out the truly awful writing in the Kiran Atreides scenes. Yep, we said this in our FaceTime chat that we posted, but it is quite jarring and shocking how much the quality of the writing drops in particular when we cut back to those scenes. Yeah, I know. It's become kind of a joke in our discord. The clerb has become kind of a joke in our discord about how much I hated it. But it's like the reason is the writing, you know, And I continue to dislike it because of that reason. It's all very bad. And I've rejected the, like, CW comparisons that people have made online about this show. But I have to concede it here with the Kieran Atreides plotline and the. And the writing, whenever we cut back to it, it feels very cw. It feels very amateur. It just isn't working. I think zooming out. My sort of broad criticism is twofold. One, four episodes in, it's very clear that the show is juggling way too much. And the season is beginning to cave under the weight of all of these plot lines that we're setting up, all of these character arcs that we don't have time to actually do any justice to. So we're rushing through stuff or assuming stuff is happening off screen. It's too much crammed into what is only a six episode season one. My second broad, major criticism at this point of the show is that particularly here in episode four, I'm frustrated how much the show isn't trusting its audience to keep up and follow along and be smart. A lot of this episode, and in particular a lot of the palace stuff, is just retreading old ground that we've spent three episodes setting up already. We're just going over it again, you know, like, Kieran Atreides is scheming with rebels. Okay. The emperor is insecure. We already set that up, like, way back in episode one here. He says it more explicitly, I guess, but not sure we needed that. Desmond is dangerous and mysterious, but we still know nothing about him retreading that whole ground again. Natalia is being sneaky and underhanded and working behind the emperor's back. That also happened all the way back in episode one. So I'm just, like, frustrated that where this show, it almost felt like somebody gave notes on episode four. That was like, well, didn't we just do a whole flashback episode? People are going to be confused. We should, like, remind them what is happening in the present timeline and where the chess pieces are. And it's like, it's only six episodes, man. Nobody's gonna be confused. Just keep going with your story. And it just shows to me, and it just reveals to me that there is a lack of Trust in the audience being able to keep up, which is frustrating. I think a big reason the palace stuff didn't work for me is because. And this feeds into not trusting the audience. We're told everything that everyone is doing. We are flies on the wall with every single chess piece as they're scheming against each other leading up to the Landsraad meeting. Nothing about what anyone is doing or their motivations is obscured or mysterious or left up to interpretation. Yeah, and that, to me, is just. That's not interesting. You know, like, if you're going to spend a whole episode doing palace intrigue, then, you know, like, clearly Game of Thrones is the gold standard for that. And there's a reason why big reveals in Game of Thrones work. And it's because we, the audience, are given just enough to stay tantalized and want to keep watching, but not so much that it's like, oh, okay, now I just know what everyone's doing. You gotta remember to have the intrigue if you're gonna do palace intrigue. And I think this episode leaned a bit too much into hand holding the audience rather than letting us be a participant in the mysteries at play on Salusa Secundus. So those are sort of my broad critiques. You know, of course, I could nitpick other things, but zooming out, those are sort of my distilled feelings walking away from episode four. I'm curious where you're at, though. What were some of the critiques you had for this episode?

[Leo]

Yeah, well, a lot of what you're saying resonates with me. And as much as I've definitely been more positive about the show broadly, and I still very much enjoyed this episode. The Kieran scenes are so hard to watch, and especially on rewatch, they get so much worse each time we see them. And part of it's just like the number of cuts in the scenes. It doesn't feel like any of the actors are really acting that much. The writing is really tough. The righteous, but not pure. That's what I always say. Thing was like Hulk Hogan.

[Abu]

I'm glad he's dead.

[Leo]

Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Thank God. And again, no shame to the actor himself, because again, so much of that's just producing on a tight deadline and not having the time for retakes, and you're shooting a ton of coverage and hoping in the editing room it comes together. I don't know. There's so many ways we could explain how it got here, but the way that it is, the where we are, it just Feels so cliche. The whole conversation with the Ixian in that nondescript back alley where they're like my favorite Ixion. And then the guy who just looks like the most comical comic book villain mobster with the heavy grill and the, like, it's going to. Oh, it's a big bump. Goes boom. Like, that whole scene was just. I mean, it feels like it could be in the Green Arrow on cw. Right. And, like, in derogatory. I mean, to be clear, derogatory. Like, that show had fine qualities, but this. It's rough and it really is shocking in comparison to some of the good writing that we're seeing in the show as well. It's so strange to get the great scenes and then to get these scenes and it's like, what?

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah, right. It's the inconsistency in the writing that is jarring to watch from scene to scene. And, you know, to your Icksian point, if I can interject, like, one of my nitpicks I did have was, like, there was a lot of Dune terminology, sort of like fan service dropping in this episode. Someone casually said mentat at one point. Later, in minutiae, we're gonna talk about Conley, which I think was actually used quite well. But this was an opportunity to show us an Ixian on screen and to make it memorable. Yeah, and we didn't do any of that.

[Leo]

They fucking did that. They met it memorably bad that, you.

[Abu]

Know, like, fan service is a whole separate discussion that we could have at some point. But I think Conley was used correctly when it comes to, like, fan service and nods toward an established universe and world building. I think, like, this exceeding example was a huge letdown. I think the throwaway Mentat line made me roll my eyes. It felt like there were a few examples of that throughout this episode.

[Leo]

I will say, I think the challenge is if they don't have any of it or if that's just happening in the background. Right. We then start feeling like it's not Dune. So I think there's a balancing act. And I think you're right in saying, like, my favorite Ixian, I have no problem with him being Ixian. And in fact, the Ixian being introduced to the universe as a pushing the limits of technology and the. But I would much rather. Yeah, that's in line. I would love for that character to have been a sort of tech savvy, memorable in some way technocrat or someone who is. Yeah, like a brilliant hacker character. Like, the fact that he's Like a ruffian thug with, like, everything about him.

[Abu]

He's so uninspired. Yeah.

[Leo]

It feels like. And I think this is somewhat your point. It feels like you had this scene of rebels meet with arms dealer in Alleyway, and you wrote the whole scene and then you went, oh, shit, it's not Dune. And then you went back in and changed some words so that it sounds different.

[Abu]

It turned him into a Nixxian. Yeah.

[Leo]

Great idea. Which is also a lot of Brian and Kevin's books. It's just like a space sci fi thing where they're just constantly using Dune terminology kind of wrongly. So I.

[Abu]

Sorry to get us off into a tangent.

[Leo]

No, no, no. And I think it's a valuable tangent because I think ultimately, like, I wasn't bothered at all by the Mentat line, and I'm fine with him being an Ixian, because those things make sense. What doesn't work is when you have this, like, fully realized scene that feels like a Green Arrow scene, and then you slap some, like, Dune terminology on it is frustrating because you have so many things that you clearly know about. And talking to Alison and talking to Jordan, they fucking know this stuff. And they can make this a much more informed character. And that feels like this is the Dune universe. But it's just that they didn't do that.

[Abu]

You're slapping the Mercedes sticker on the Honda and you want me to believe I'm stepping into a Mercedes, you know?

[Leo]

Yeah. You can feel it on how it bumps on every bump on the road. This is a Mercedes. Yeah. I also reading your retreading ground point, I agree. I feel like a ton happened in this episode. Right. Like, Lila's up and walking. Right. And also, Yanez has taken a public stand against her father. And also, a High Council member was burned in front of everyone. Everyone knows that Desmond has this power. And also, blah, blah. A lot of stuff has happened, but I still don't feel like I have answers to any of the questions. I've not been worried about the timeline almost at all, but now I am starting to feel like, man, you are really drawing this out. The carrot's been there in front of me for three episodes now, and I'm still no closer to getting any carrot. And I want some carrot. I'm hungry. Looking at Constantine has given me an appetite for carrot, I guess. Point is. If you know what I mean. Point is, it is starting to feel slow in that regard, which is funny. Cause again, it feels slow. But then I look back and I'm like, oh, actually, Quite a bit happened this episode.

[Abu]

Yeah. Right. That's the funny part. Like, so much technically happened. Like, a lot of dominoes fell over, but it was a pile of dominoes over there that fell over. Not the dominoes that for three episodes, you've been telling me to pay attention to and be emotionally invested in. It's, you know.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And it's like, wrong set of dominoes, and I'm not sure where the trail is that will make those dominoes finally connect to the ones I'm supposed to be paying attention to over here.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

That's kind of what this episode felt like to me.

[Leo]

That's such a good analogy. So, anyway, I will end the things that I. That didn't work for me by saying my hope. And I think what they can do to save all of this is that episode 5 answers a lot of questions, resolves some of these mysteries, and then gives Valya the answers to these questions so that Valya can, in episode six, wrap everything up in a nice, satisfying finale way. And if that happens, sick. And this is just kind of a low point. Otherwise, as much fun as I was having. Yeah. There were definitely some rough moments, and hopefully with Hulk Hogan dead, the duckclurb is less of a highlight. The Ixion is dead. Really wish again that Ixion had a better first debut in the Dune universe.

[Abu]

Good Lord.

[Leo]

100%.

[Abu]

This machine is gonna go boom. It's gonna go boom real big. You hear?

[Leo]

I wrote that in Python goes boom. Execute. You know, it's like. It's so strange. Whatever. We don't need to belabor that same point.

[Abu]

Right. We've made our point there.

[Leo]

It's just. Could have been done differently.

[Abu]

Okay, well, let's move on to our takeaways. We have a couple of thematic things we wanted to unpack a little bit further. We each picked one thing we wanted to dig a bit deeper into. Do you want to kick it off for us?

[Leo]

Yeah, sure. And this is going to be pretty quick. But mostly this is inspired by something you said during our little FaceTime call. So my takeaway today is Dune's most popular quote, fear is the mind killer. And from the earliest episodes of Dune Prophecy, we have seen Javako Carino's caution around inciting panic or hysteria. We've seen him feeling the fear of I'm surrounded by scorpions. And in the second episode, Havoco even orders Valya to keep Desmond's crime secret, else it could, quote, turned the Imperium into a circus of fear and rumor. End quote. Now, you might have noticed I emphasized one of the words there.

[Abu]

Uh huh.

[Leo]

Rumor. I emphasize the word. Yeah, rumor. Subtle fear. Right. There's been this ongoing emphasis of fear. And some of Tula's lines from this episode especially put us onto these rails of thinking about how maybe this series is showing us the inception of Fearus, the Mind Killer. Now, speaking of Havoco, his entire character is almost entirely driven by fear. The more I've kind of looked through his actions throughout the show, the more I'm seeing him as this, like, deeply reactive character doing his best to dodge these things he's afraid of. He has a fear of losing control of Arrakis. So he goes into this unwilling marriage arrangement. He's a fear of being dethroned by the Landsraad, the whole reason the Arrakis stuff matters. He has a fear, that we learn in this episode, of not living up to his father's image. And at the most beautiful breakfast table I've ever seen. He even requires. Yanez, your mother's right. You can't go with the Bene Gesserit. We have to, quote, show a unified front, end quote. But only because of the optics for the Landsraad. He's not like, I need you close. You said you're afraid. I can keep you safe. We're going to be safe together as a family. That's how we remain safe. It wasn't that. It was, we need to be perceived strongly by all of these visiting people who could definitely throw me off the throne. Right? It's all optics. It's fear. It's fear of the people. Nevertheless, the one inciting all of the fear is right there at his breakfast table. So Desmond Hart, this man who has a flair for the dramatic, has been using his power to disturb the status quo and to incite fear. It's terrorism. It's literally terrorism. In the autopsy room with Sister Nazir, Tula even says about Kasha's death, quote, she had a nightmare. Whatever it was terrified her. She knew something was coming. End quote. Right. And that's fine. Kasha, isolated incident until. Oops. Every acolyte had a nightmare tonight. That's a problem. We have this stuff happening on the horizon.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Now to Tula. When Tula begins unraveling the mystery of Desmond's powers. But also these nightmares and how maybe they're connected. Sister Avila warns her, quote, best leave it alone, lest you start up hysterics. End quote. Tula doesn't leave it alone. She proceeds with her art therapy sip and sketch session gone wrong. And afterwards Says the following quote, I didn't awaken them. The fear did. End quote. And then whatever this is, it calls forth a terror so crippling that the mind screams to save itself. End quote. So avila again, constantly giving bad ideas. In this episode, it's like, we should tell everyone, spread the word of how terrifying all this shit is.

[Abu]

And which is the opposite advice of what she just said, like, a day ago.

[Leo]

And in fact, Tula even throws her the like, well, we can't do that. It would spread hysteria, like you fucking said to me. If what killed Kasha is rooted in fear, then fear is the last thing that we should be spreading. End quote. Which really felt like the point where you would say fear is the mind killer.

[Abu]

I mean, in particular, the terror so crippling that the mind screams to save itself. You know, that very much brings to mind fear is the mind killer.

[Leo]

Yeah. And then that is when you would use the litany. But clearly they do not have the litany against fear yet within their Rolodex, else someone would have said it 10 times. You know, she would have been whispering it to herself after she found Lila's box empty, her knife held aloft. So, to wrap up, it's totally possible that among many other things this series may be showing us, we are going to be seeing the invention of the litany against fear. And I was thinking, because this is tied to Desmond's powers, maybe one of the reveals here is going to be this is a response to something that Desmond does. He needs you to be afraid before he can do his little power move. Right. That'd be a very neat thing to see.

[Abu]

Yeah. This would be a fun origin point of the Litany of Fear and would give it more weight. You know, if it's something that sisters are taught in order to control their highly honed and trained minds from succumbing to visions and dreams. And whatever is happening to these sisters, like, that's more powerful. Right. It becomes less a quote you use when you're, like, too scared to get on the roller coaster. And more a quote that, like, maybe is helping sisters maintain their sanity, given their mental and physical abilities. It would add weight.

[Leo]

That's a great point. Yeah. And also it is relevant for even people who have only seen Villeneuve's movies. So, again, I think would strengthen people's interest in the Dune universe. And as much as I shit on it as definitely not the best quote in Dune, it is still a pretty dang good quote. And I get why people get it as a tattoo. I Just think that's dumb. So that's my takeaway. Abu, what about you? What did you want to talk about today?

[Abu]

So I want to just quickly touch on that final scene in today's episode, which I greatly enjoyed. It was a highlight for sure. That scene between Valya and her uncle. In particular, I want to hone in on some themes around power and strength in this moment that come up and kind of wrap it up in a bow by talking about Valya's very obvious misconception that those two things are the same thing. That power is strength and that strength is power.

[Leo]

Right? Yeah.

[Abu]

So to get into it a little bit, it's clear from this episode and in particular this confrontation with her uncle, that even 30 years later, Valya is carrying a lot of family baggage. She has not necessarily come to peace with it. Her uncle Evgeny cuts right to her core, in fact, when he says, quote, griffin went to his death because of your damned ambitions. You are a black hole in this family. End quote.

[Leo]

Man. How does he feel about her? Boom.

[Abu]

Right to the gut. And hats off to Emily Watson, who I think has been spectacular in this whole show. Some wonderful physical acting here. In reaction to hearing those words from her uncle reveal just how much this actually stings Valya Harkonnen and how much Valia herself has been holding onto that guilt for these last three plus decades. Then Valya declares in a bold statement why she is better than the family she left behind. Right? In sort of retaliation to her uncle's statement, she says, quote, all of you Harkonnens are cowards, too afraid to make difficult choices. I will not apologize for what I did, and I will not apologize for my strength. End quote. I had goosebumps during this line delivery. My goodness.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Such great stuff there. So much emotion clearly bottled up underneath that rage, right? So much pain, so much sadness, so much guilt buried under the sort of defining emotion that Valia fuels herself with rage. And I also really liked the last bit of this line where she says, I will not apologize for my strength. And that's quite revealing because we've seen Valya be quite the abrasive, forward, outspoken, hard headed person throughout this show. In particular in the last episode, we even saw it with young Valya. Strength is a characteristic she really leans into, and she defines it as being a thorn in everyone's side, as having her way, as imposing her will, as gaining the unquestioning loyalty of her subjects. You know, for Valya Harkonnen, that is the definition of strength, and that is what she is not apologizing for here, that's the character we've seen throughout this show. So I think it kind of goes without saying at this point, after everything we've learned about Valya Harkonnen in these first four episodes, that she's not the most subtle person. And in fact, I would wager that the concept of soft power seems a bit lost on her. Which is interesting to say that about a member of the sisterhood, for example, she declares to a now dying Evgeny on the ground in front of her, she says, quote, if you'd had the courage to follow me like Tula did it, would it be the sisterhood that. Not that now towers in the Imperium? It would be House Harkonnen, end quote. And there's a lot of interesting layers to that. This declaration she's just made. Right. On one level, there's this arrogance. Right. If you had just done what I told you, things would all be fine, you know? You fucking idiot, I know what to do.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

There's this certain level of arrogance here that she and she and only she, knows the right way forward and the best way forward for House Harkonnen, the sisterhood, the Imperium, all of humanity. And there's another layer here of her, just like pure venomous disdain for this perceived cowardice and weakness of House Harkonnen. Again, speaking to her definition of strength and what she perceives as weakness, this whalefur stuff they've been doing for decades now, to her, that's weak. That's complacency. That's you sitting on your laurels, not doing anything. That's you not forging a path forward. That's not strength. That's weakness. But if you know anything about the concept of soft power, you know that, like, economic influence is one of the most effective ways of softly asserting your power without coercion, without force, without military might. And she's overlooking that here. And so for Valya, every problem she sees is a nail. And she, Valya Harkonnen, Mother Superior of the Sisterhood, is the one holding the solution hammer that we gotta bang this nail with as hard as we can. That is how she perceives the world around her. And, you know, I love that we've gotten this insight into who Valia is as a person in these episodes thus far.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

I want to contrast that, though, with her sister, who says something dramatically different in episode three to the young Atreides boy, Young Tula says true strength isn't always something you see from the outside. End quote.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's really poignant. And we see also, like Valya's perception of strength makes sense then why she, following Rekhela's death, would say, you know what the sisterhood needs, an empress on the throne.

[Abu]

Yes. The most brutal way forward to power.

[Leo]

Most literal example of power, galactic power that she can understand. Let's arrest that. That's ours.

[Abu]

Yep, Great point.

[Leo]

And then Tula is like, I don't know if you're. Are we still on track? Because the element. Yeah. That idea of. Of true power as something that's hidden, it's in the shadows. It's great. That's a really great point. The idea that that young Tula's statement reflects on perhaps her feelings about Valya's ambition for power. It's very cool.

[Abu]

Yeah. And I think you're already sort of digging at it naturally here. But it's very interesting to consider these two sisters viewpoints in the context of the sisterhood as we eventually know them in Paul's time, as we know what they will become 10,000 years from now. Valia and to some extent Rachela, she's sort of inherited this from Rachella. They both have this, like, arrogance, this certainty that they know what is best, that they should be the stewards of all of humanity. And certainly this imperium, and certainly the rulers of this imperium going forward. That's why we made this breeding program, so that we can make better rulers. Because the ones we have are fucking idiots. We know what's better than this. There is a certain level of arrogance there, because you have to question, like, do you know what's better than this? And that is in line with the Bene Gesserit as we know them in the books. 10,000 years from now, they continue to have this belief that their vision of humanity, their vision of the Kwisatz Haderach, in order to steer humanity is the right path forward, which I think is worth questioning. But we also see that the sisterhood in 10,000 years time becomes much more subtle, much more patient, much more surgical, much more secretive. All of these qualities that I think Valya in this moment lacks. You know, she just has the hammer and she's hammering away at her problems. Whereas by the time of Paul Atreides, I believe the Sisterhood has learned that there is value to soft power. There is value to patience and long term plans that take thousands of years instead of decades. There is value to pulling strings from the shadows rather than trying to hammer everything into the shape that we want it to be. So that's sort of where I wanted to wrap up my takeaway. This idea of how Valya views strength, how that manifests in her relationship with her family and in particular her uncle in this scene, but also what that kind of clues us in on about the sisterhood at large, their past, their present, and where they may be headed in the future.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's such a great point. And I think it is, like, absolutely key to character motivations and the events as they've played out. And some of the conflict between Tula and Valya, which was, as we've said, is like, I'm glad they're the beating hearts of the show because it is some of the most compelling stuff, is the sacrifices they're both making for what they think is right. And it's also the most tragic because as Tula witnessed with Ori, there isn't always one solution to the problem. But Valya is kind of convinced that her solution is the right solution and there is no better alternative, when in fact, there very well could be.

[Abu]

Yeah. Consider how quickly she decided Desmond Hart is what the prophecy was about as soon as she heard it in that last episode.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Well, those are our takeaways. Let's take another quick breather. We have one more segment to go, folks. We're almost there. Finish line in sight. Let's take a breather, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're digging into some lore Easter eggs in our minutiae segment. We'll see you in a minute.

[Leo]

When your gut feels off, your whole day can feel off.

[Abu]

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[Leo]

Quick, easy and tasty way to up your gut Health game every day. They're deliciously smooth and creamy and packed with billions of live and and active probiotics. Your gut is where it all begins. So start with Activia. Enjoying Activia twice a day for two weeks as part of a balanced diet and healthy lifestyle can help reduce the frequency of minor digestive discomfort. Welcome back, everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break. Quickly now, put your fingers together. Let's observe some minutiae. And the first thing that we observed is House Vernius. So in today's episode about so many great houses and houses in the High Council of the Landsraad, one of the houses announced was House Vernius. Now, House Vernius is a significant house in Dune. This mostly in the prequel books, but House Vernius calls home Planet I. House Vernius is in charge of Planet IX for thousands of years. We are not 100% clear if that's happened at this point yet. House Vernius could just be an important house, and maybe whoever's in charge of Ix now by the end of the series, will be ousted and House Vernius will take over. But House Vernius nevertheless, by the time of Paul Atreides, certainly, and by the time of Leto Atreides, Daddy Leto Atreides is in charge of Ix, which is very cool. Now, actually, 10,000 years after this show's events, House Vernius does crumble to the ground. They are basically dissolved in events that directly involve Daddy Atreides himself. Leto, Oscar Isaac Atreides himself. So very interesting stuff. A lot of the House Atreides House Harkonnen books involve Dominic Vernius, the fucking hottest dude, big mustache. So very fun to see House Vernius get a shout out in today's episode.

[Abu]

That's right. And actually our second bit of minutiae continues this thread on Ix, because we obviously meet an Ixian, as we discussed in our summary in today's episode. So a little bit about Ix. They are basically just like the Silicon Valley of the Dune universe. A bunch of techies who are pushing the boundaries of ethics and Butlerian prohibitions. And even by the time of Paul Atreides, 10,000 years from now, they are known for pushing those boundaries, so they clearly don't learn their lesson. They, for example, are responsible for developing technologies like the cone of Silence, which we have seen throughout this series, as well as the Hunter Seeker, which, if you'll recall from the Denis Villeneuve films, is the little flying needle bug thing that almost kills Sweet, sweet Timothee Chalamet in Dune Part one. There's also a quick RFL connection to the Ixians, obviously. Rfl, an important term in the show so far. In the Dune books, the first time the word RFL is used is in relation to, you guessed it, folks, these goddamn Ixians. Quote, do not fear the Ixians. They can make the machines, but they no longer can make rfl. End quote.

[Leo]

Also, don't fear them because they've got grills and tattoos and they talk like this big boom, thermal bomb, boom. Not afraid of him. No. Next up, we have Padishah. So today we get Javico's full title, Padishah, Emperor of the Known Universe, Javico Carino, the first, which is, of course, long and fun and includes the Persian word Padishah. So Dune, for anybody who hasn't been listening to us, for the Last four years, Dune has at its core Arabic, Pashto, Persian, Hebrew, other languages from the Middle East. And Villeneuve's films caught a little bit of flak for not including enough of those influences that Frank so clearly appreciated and researched. So all of this is to say it is very fun to hear some of these Persian, you know, Arabic Pashto terms in the show on screen for everyone to see.

[Abu]

And to be fair, the show has gotten some of the same flack as well for not calling it the Balerian Jihad and calling it the Machine War instead. But obviously it makes sense why you don't want to say the word jihad in 2024 on American television.

[Leo]

Yeah, annoying, but understandable.

[Abu]

Next up, we have Conley. In this episode, Harrow Harkonnen at the Landsraad meeting mentions the word Conley in his accusations, and he suggests that someone has attacked Pruitt Rochesi without observing these required agreements of warfare as defined by Conley. So, hey, let's define Conley from the terminology of the Imperium at the end of the first Dune book, Conley is defined as quot formal feud or vendetta under the rules of the Great Convention, carried on according to the strictest limitations. End quote.

[Leo]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Abu]

And in fact, at the end of the book, Conley plays a direct role in the fight between Paul and Feyd Rautha, because the fight only happens once Feyd officially calls for Conley.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So clearly there are rules of engagement within the Imperium. We've talked about how warfare is dramatically different in the Dune universe than your traditional giant armies blasting each other with guns and lasers and spaceships. And Conley is a direct result of that. And Harrow Harkonnen is saying that these rules were broken.

[Leo]

Very cool. Now, our final minutia is Shai Hulud. Shaitan. And this goes to Desmond saying, right. The myriad animals of the desert scatter when, quote, a leviathan that rises from the sand arrives, and that they are scared of the Devil, too. End quote. And this really jumped out at me because we've talked a lot in our various book clubs over the years about Shai Hulud and Shai Hulud's place in the Fremen mythology as this sort of deity creator. They are literally called makers. The Maker's Tooth. Right. And Desmond's line here cuts really deep to the lore of the Sandworm. So I wanted to talk about it for a second. So the Sandworm's title, Shai Hulud, which has been used a few times in the series in the terminology of the Imperium is said to indicate, quote, the earth deity of Fremen hearth superstitions, end quote. And on the other side of things we have shaitan, right? Satan. And in the Islamic tradition, shaitan are, I guess, evil spirits or jinn that are in particular like non believers of Islamic code. And the word is often used even to describe the devil at work doing things, Satan at work. So throughout the Dune series, we see the Fremen's relationship to the worms as a complex one. Sometimes the worm is a God, sometimes the worm is a destructive natural force that doesn't have good or evil, but is destructive and you pray to it to not destroy. Sometimes they are worth revering. And for instance, sometimes like in Heretics of Dune, a desert person is referring to all of the worms as literally Shaitan for what they do to the desert people. So very complex relationship that the Fremen have with Shai Hulud.

[Abu]

A lot of fun lore tidbits in today's episode for sure. The most perhaps that we've had so far. And that's our minutiae segment, folks. Hope you enjoyed. Hope you learned something today. Before we say goodbye and before we wrap up today's episode, a couple of very quick reminders.

[Leo]

First, if you want to support us in what we do here at Gom Jabbar, best way to do that is become a patron [e-mail] gom jabbar or you can get some Dune themed swag from our merch store or we have a one time donation link. All of those links are in the show notes below. Your support is what makes what we do possible.

[Abu]

And of course we love to hear from you. We're all watching this show together, experiencing this story together. We want to hear your thoughts. Tell us what you think. We've only shared two opinions here. There are countless opinions on Dune and this show in particular. So email us gomjabarpodcastmail.com also send us your questions for future live streams so we can include them in the Q and A and answer them and speak to them. And of course, this is kind of becoming a prerequisite. Send us a cute picture of your pet. We love the cute little crits.

[Leo]

Cute crits. Thousand predators love to see him.

[Abu]

Love to see him. All right, folks, that's it for today's episode. We're going to make this one go boom.

[Leo]

Big boom, big boom.

[Abu]

Well, friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muadib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and be sure to check out the other shows on the lar party podcast network on larparty.com you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at loraparty. You can also watch video versions of select episodes on the lower party YouTube channel. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Path.