Dune: Prophecy Episode 5

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast
Episode: Dune: Prophecy Episode 5
Release Date: December 16, 2024
Hosts: Abu and Leo
Duration: Approximately 2 hours

---

Overview

In Episode 5 of Dune: Prophecy, hosted by Abu and Leo from Lore Party Media, the hosts delve deep into the intricacies of the latest installment of the Dune saga. This episode offers an extensive analysis of the plot developments, character arcs, and underlying lore, providing both longtime fans and newcomers with a comprehensive understanding of the unfolding narrative.

---

Episode Summary

Arrival of Sister Francesca on Salusa Secundus ([05:23])

The episode opens with the dramatic arrival of Sister Francesca on Salusa Secundus, just in time to disrupt the Sardaukar initiation ceremony. Her intention is to confront her son, Constantine, setting the stage for familial and political tensions. Francesca's unexpected intrusion leads to Emperor Natalia's visible frustration, highlighting the delicate balance of power within House Corrino.

Constantine’s Inner Turmoil and Imprisonment ([07:31])

Constantine grapples with guilt over abandoning his sister during a pivotal Landsraad meeting, revealing his emotional vulnerability. Despite promising his mother never to let her down again, his actions quickly contradict his vows, leading to the imprisonment of his secret boyfriend and training master.

Sisterhood School Dynamics and Lila’s Possession ([08:18])

At Wallach 9, tensions rise within the Sisterhood academy as Sister Jen challenges the status quo, only to be reprimanded by Tula. The episode introduces a supernatural element when Lila becomes possessed by Raquela, unveiling a genetically modified airborne RNA retrovirus connected to Desmond Hart's mysterious powers.

Haro Harkonnen’s Betrayal and Desmond’s Strategy ([12:26])

Haro Harkonnen seeks forgiveness from Desmond Hart for his misconduct against the Emperor. Desmond, however, leverages Haro’s confession to infiltrate deeper into the rebel plot, demanding evidence of Valya’s involvement. A cryptic exchange culminates in Haro receiving a mysterious trinket, sparking theories about its significance.

Empress Natalia and Desmond’s Alliance ([21:48])

Empress Natalia expresses disdain for the Sisterhood, culminating in a clandestine alliance with Desmond Hart. Their shared animosity towards the Sisterhood sets the stage for a formidable partnership aimed at dismantling heretical forces within the empire.

Climactic Revelations ([46:13])

The episode crescendos with groundbreaking revelations:

• Tula’s Discovery: Tula uncovers that Desmond Hart is her and Ori Atreides' son, hinting at his potential as the Kwisatz Haderach.
• Natalia and Desmond’s Pact: Empress Natalia and Desmond solidify their alliance with a passionate promise to eradicate the Sisterhood.
• House Intrigues: Constantine is promoted to commander of the fleet destined for Arrakis, while Kieran Atreides faces arrest for his rebellious actions.

---

Key Discussions

Character Analysis

• Sister Francesca ([05:50]): Francesca's strategic maneuvers and emotional manipulations underscore her role as a pivotal antagonist. Abu remarks, "She does not apologize for her strength," highlighting her unyielding nature.

• Constantine Corrino ([07:40]): Constantine's internal conflict and subsequent actions reveal a deeply flawed yet sympathetic character. Leo notes, "Constantine melts," emphasizing his rare moments of vulnerability.

• Desmond Hart ([12:27]): Desmond's interactions, especially with Haro Harkonnen, expose his cunning and strategic mindset. Leo praises Travis Fimmel's portrayal: "Travis Fimmel is doing a masterclass. How do I also do this?"

Lore and Theories

• Raquela’s RNA Virus ([19:56]): The introduction of a genetically modified airborne retrovirus adds a new layer to the Dune mythology. Abu speculates, "How much of this plague has spread to how many of these characters already?"

• Omnius Plague and Holtzmann Shields ([105:47]): The hosts delve into the origins of technological elements like the Omnius plague and Holtzmann shields, drawing parallels to existing Dune lore and highlighting inconsistencies between Brian Herbert's prequels and Frank Herbert's originals.

• Face Dancer Theodosia ([87:14]): The mysterious Face Dancer, Theodosia, remains an enigma. Abu expresses confusion over her motivations and connections, stating, "She's a shapeshifter... extremely painful."

Plot Critiques

• Plot Armor and Logical Inconsistencies ([07:38], [41:59]): Abu and Leo critique instances where plot armor undermines character decisions, such as Desmond's survival despite explosive threats, questioning the logical consistency of these narrative choices.

• Character Screen Time Imbalance ([50:20], [64:06]): The disproportionate focus on Constantine and the sidelining of Yanez and Empress Natalia are points of contention. Abu laments, "Yanez has been wasted potential," while Leo echoes concerns over Empress Natalia's underdeveloped character arc.

---

Notable Quotes

• Abu on Sister Francesca's Authority ([07:15]): "I am proud of you. Thank you."
  [07:15]

• Leo on Desmond’s Manipulation ([12:27]): "Travis Fimmel is doing a masterclass. How do I also do this?"
  [12:27]

• Abu on Season’s Political Depth ([36:20]): "There is a lot of interesting politics that are just not being explored."
  [36:20]

• Leo on The Voice Technique ([53:23]): "She uses her voice to do so. That is the Voice through and through. It is better than it was shown in Villeneuve."
  [53:23]

• Abu on Lore Consistency ([75:16]): "It's a shorthand for Fremen."
  [75:16]

---

Conclusion

Episode 5 of Dune: Prophecy serves as a pivotal juncture in the series, weaving complex character dynamics with deepening lore. Abu and Leo provide a thorough examination of the episode's strengths, such as standout performances and significant plot revelations, while also critiquing areas like character focus and lore inconsistencies. As the season approaches its finale, the hosts express eager anticipation for resolving lingering mysteries and exploring new narrative avenues in future seasons.

Listeners are encouraged to engage with the podcast community, share their thoughts, and stay tuned for the season finale, where many of the discussed theories and critiques may find their resolution.

---

Note: This summary omits advertisements, promotions, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses presented in the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Abu]

Today on the show, we got our 23andMe results. And in addition to being 1% Mongolian, turns out, huh, we both hail from important bloodlines. Leo.

[Leo]

Okay, so not only do we demand.

[Abu]

Your respect, listener, but we're owed it.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Long live Duke Leo.

[Leo]

And also, bare the boo. We will not apologize for our strength.

[Abu]

Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe. From Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name's Abu.

[Leo]

My name is Leo.

[Abu]

And here we are, an ultimate episode of the season.

[Leo]

Oh, my gosh, we're almost there. We've almost seen all of the Dune HBO series in 2024. That's wild.

[Abu]

That's a wild place to be, for sure. Well, I'm excited to talk about it. Prophecy episode five. That's what we're getting into today, folks. Our deep dive analysis and review of this episode. But before we get into it, as always, we have to make shout out to Mapes proud and take care of some housekeeping.

[Leo]

Indeed. And first up, spoiler warning. The normal thing spoiling episode five of Dune Prophecy. And we'll talk a little bit about, like, Brian Herbert, Sisterhood of Dune and Mentats of Dune, as well as some general things about the broader Dune books. Ideally, you've caught up with our book club that's available on the public feed. But if not, we're not going to get too much into those plotty details. But you have been warned. Some spoilers for prophecy.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

Brian Herbert's books and the first few books of Frank Herbert.

[Abu]

And at the top of the show, a huge shout out to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons. Rob Silver, Daniel Dion, Jonathan Lambert, Brad Hutchins, and C.R. spruel.

[Leo]

Nice. Yeah, folks. Yeah.

[Abu]

I hope that I am related to you in some way. It seems unlikely, sure. This is a widespread of people, but I hope somewhere, somehow in the cosmic history of our universe we're related. Because I would like to have even 1% of your generosity and even 1% of your heart.

[Leo]

Yeah, same plus one. Thumbs up to that.

[Abu]

Thank you so much for your support. We are so grateful. And that gratefulness, of course, extends to all of our patrons and all of our listeners who really do help make this show possible.

[Leo]

It's true. We can't thank you enough. And listen, if you are fatigued on the monthly subscription bit, or if you just want to Give us a one time little support donation thing. You can buy us a spice coffee. That link is also in the show notes. Great way to show your appreciation of what we do.

[Abu]

That's right. Okay, you know the game plan for these prophecy episodes by now. We're going to begin the conversation with a summary of prophecy episode five. Then we will dive into a big singular takeaway today as we approach the finale of this first season. And finally, we will wrap up today's conversation by picking apart some lore Easter eggs in our minutiae segments.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So before we jump in, let's take a quick breather, let's prepare ourselves. When we come back, we're jumping into the penultimate episode of season one of Dune Prophecy. Hey, folks, Abu and Leo here from the Gom Jabbar Podcast here to tell you about another Dune podcast that we think you're gonna love.

[Leo]

It's called the Official Dune Prophecy Podcast. It's from the fine folks at hbo. And of course, the HBO original series is going to be focusing on that shadowy sisterhood that of course becomes everyone's favorite Bene Gesserit.

[Abu]

On the companion podcast, hosts Greta Johnson and Ahmed Ali Akbar are going to guide you through every episode of the HBO Original Series and unpack each episode with guests from the show, including cast and crew.

[Leo]

So if you're listening to our podcast, Gom Jabbar, you're probably already a huge Dune fan. We think you'll enjoy the series and their companion podcast. It's a fresh take on an incredible universe and we're all going to go places we've never seen before.

[Abu]

That's right. And if you're a podcast listener, you know the drill. Listen to the official Dune Prophecy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to stream new episodes of the HBO Original series Dune Prophecy, exclusively on Max.

[Leo]

Welcome back, everybody. Oh, I hope you're ready for episode five of Dune Prophecy. So, starting off our summary, episode five of Dune Prophecy opens on the arrival of Sister Francesca. Sheesh. Beautiful. On Salusa Secundus. Just in time to crash the Sardaukar initiation ceremony party. The elite force of House Corrino.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

May not be exactly Sardaukar yet. We'll see. The word hasn't been dropped yet. We'll see. Tbd. But for sure. Did she know this is a private event? Yes. Does she care?

[Abu]

Oh, she knew. Oh, girl, she knew.

[Leo]

She knew does not give a shit. Now Empress Natalia is annoyed and we very quickly see why.

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

Mark Strong might as well have done the. Oh. Got like the eyes popping out of his head like wolf reaction when Francisco, great acting on his part. He's so happy that Francesca's here. And Francesca reveals that she's here to see her son. Drum roll. Constantine. Hottie McBody himself. Constantine. Now we know where he gets his looks from. Damn. Now we see a scene of Constantine visiting his sister, asking for her forgiveness for not supporting her at the Landsraad meeting. Again, they had this plan to stand together. And he reveals that he couldn't do it after Mark Strong showed a rare, very rare moment of being anything other than condescending toward him. I'm proud of you. Thank you. And Constantine's like, what is this feeling? Is this happiness? Is this like, self contempt? Oh, my gosh, he melted. And Yanez understands because Yanez sees how hard it is for Constantine. And at least I got the sense she relents a little bit. She's kind of like, okay, I get it. She's going to give him another chance, which I'm sure he'll squander within this very episode.

[Abu]

Although, for what it's. I was going to say, although, for like, what it's worth, he does promise I'll never let you down like that again. And then does exactly that.

[Leo]

This episode, 30 minutes later.

[Abu]

Imprisons her boyfriend. Yeah, her secret boyfriend. Training master. Anyway, we cut to Wallach nine next, where the sisters are in class. Once again, Sister Jen continues to be in the problem child of the acolytes and speaks out against Sister Avila. Wants to know answers for what the fuck is going on with these visions. Tula jumps in, reprimands Jen in particular. But the class in general says, look, now's the time to buck up or shut up. Is that a phrase? I don't know if I just. Anyway, Tula says, we're in dire straits. Now's the time we will all be tested.

[Leo]

Yeah, to be fair, I am also the problem child when the class is holding her handle for a Bunsen burner. Worst class by a margin. I will take the failing grade. I am. Get out of there.

[Abu]

Jen is whisked out of class by Tula. And rather than like, getting expelled or going to detention, Jen is taken into a secret room where Tula asks for her help with none other than Lila. Do you remember her? She was like, kind of dead a week ago.

[Leo]

Jump scare and a rule.

[Abu]

Oh, my God, the jump scare. Hilarious. You had pointed this out on her FaceTime cop, but Tula fully setting Jen up for the jump scare. You Know, could have said here, look at this window real quick.

[Leo]

Hey, just flick through this open window. And then she backs up, pogs her ears.

[Abu]

Really great acting from the actress here. But Jen is overcome with a mix of, like, relief that her friend is still alive and kicking here, clearly, but also horrified at what has happened to Lila. They have to literally strap her down. And Tula explains that Lila is currently. Currently battling with her other memories. And hopefully the other memories will settle down and Lila will be able to come back to herself eventually. But right now, it's tough. And she needs you, Jen, as a friend. She needs your support. Yeah. And we see that throughout this episode. Jen and Lila share a couple of sort of friendly and close, intimate moments together as close friends. I did want to comment, though, this was one thing that felt rushed. I know we've had scenes between Jen and Lila already in the show, but we've also had scenes with Lila and Emmaline and Lila and other acolytes and Theodosia. And so we've established this group of friends, of course. But I don't think we have done a great job in the show so far of establishing Lila and Jen as really close friends. In particular, I was, like, always kind of caught off guard every time Jen would call Lila Doe eyes.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Because I didn't realize they were such close friends that they had nicknames for each other. It just felt a little rushed and kept catching me off guard that they would be, like, so close a relationship that I don't think we established super well.

[Leo]

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think they could have done more to show them becoming close, because I think even looking back on the first couple of episodes, a lot of Jen's conversations, it kind of felt like Jen was in it just to stop someone from throwing their life away stupidly. And then she did, and I'm like, yeah, yeah. That was the energy I got. Not like, hey, you're my very good friend and I don't want to lose you.

[Abu]

Yes. Yeah. Even a couple of extra lines in there, they kind of establish, like, Lila, you know me, like, I. I'm just looking out for you. Yeah, you're my best something, something. You know, something to establish a best friendship and not just a friendship.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, back on Salusa Secundus, back at the palace, Sister Francesca, Reverend Mother Francesca learns that Constantine is confused why she's visiting, which is strange to her because she's like, I got. Sorry, I got a message from you. And he's like, no, didn't send one. I thought you were here because of Kasha. And Francesca is like, what do you mean, Kasha? My friend from childhood. Miss your friend message. No. No. Kasha's dead. And she is shocked. She is really saddened, visibly, by this. And when she approaches Valya about this, Valya reveals that she is the one that sent the message to avoid people basically reading her mail. She's like, I've been told the Guild will screen messages. I needed to make sure I wasn't jeopardizing your mission on the other side of the universe. Basically summarizing the past four episodes, letting Francesca know, these are the stakes. This is why I need your help. This is why you're back. I needed to bring you in. Now, meanwhile, we get this incredible sequence.

[Abu]

Yeah, this is really great.

[Leo]

Where Haro Harkonnen visits Desmond. Desmond, Art. And Haro ultimately is here to apologize. He's like, listen, I was way out of line for bringing to inquiry this thing against the Emperor. I'm sorry. Any way I can rebuild my reputation. Any way I can repair this relationship. And Desmond tells him, I want you to connect Valya, Harkonnen and the Bene Gesserit to the rebel plot, to the shit that's been happening to the Emperor. If you can do that clean bill, you'll be forgiven. So Haro is not able to give evidence of Valya's involvement in things, but he does offer some intel on the hub of illegal trade and villainy at Ducklerb. And ultimately, Desmond takes that advice and goes, well, listen, that's a start. Here is a trinket. Meanwhile, give me evidence of Valya's involvement, and then we'll be good.

[Abu]

Yeah, I love your theory on this trinket, because I was quite confused. I was like, what did he just hand him? And why does Harrow look so pleased by it?

[Leo]

Yeah, I'm not sure. But my theory is he looks very pleased to have it. I think he's not actually that happy about how things have shaken out at House Harkonnen. But we see in the next scene that Haro and Valya are together. He kind of, like, pats his breast pocket.

[Abu]

Yeah, exactly.

[Leo]

And we don't see what he has there. So my thought is this is like a recording crystal or like a. Something that he could. He's like, It's a wire. He's like. He has his little recording bit.

[Abu]

Ooh, I love that.

[Leo]

She goes, oh. How was it with Desmond? Did he appreciate the intel? He said he did. He wants to know what you're up to. And then he kind of, like, leans forward, his chest closer to her face. So what are you up to? Do you want to explain it to my. My breast pocket? So that's. That's my theory.

[Abu]

I think you're spot on.

[Leo]

I don't know for sure. Maybe it'll be something else. Maybe it's just valuable. Who knows?

[Abu]

Just shiny.

[Leo]

It's just more cocaine. It's more. It's more like. I love the casual.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

They do cocaine together in the scene. It's so great. They're buddies. They're buddies now.

[Abu]

Absolutely killed me. Guaranteed Harrow's first time ever doing cocaine.

[Leo]

And he's like, oh, man. I. I just want to tell you about Whalefur, my favorite. Well, acting on the intelligence that Haro gives him, Desmond and his proto Sardaukar head out to act on the intel and casually invite Kieran Atreides to the party. Walks up, we're looking for insurgents. And then nice, long, pregnant paws before. Do you want to come with us? Do you want to have fun? And then Constantine has a training session, so he leaves him be.

[Abu]

Yeah, this was interesting. I mean, for a second I went, oh, shit. Desmond knows. Desmond suspects. And it's just Hulk keeping Kieran in his back pocket. Desmond, sneaky.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And at least for this episode, we actually. Never mind. That, like, never plays out. And Constantine is the one that blows up Kieran's spot as the spy. So then I kind of second guessed myself and I was like, oh, maybe Desmond doesn't know. And this is just sort of like a scene in here so we can set up Kieran. Like, maybe it's just convenient plotting so Kieran can then go run off to Mikayla and warn her. I'm not sure what the intention here was. The pregnant pause. I certainly was like, Desmond. No, I read into it as well.

[Leo]

As does Kieran. Like, Kieran has a moment of, like, Kieran also. Gulp. Like, real nervous.

[Abu]

But it never bears fruit in any way. So now I'm second guessing it.

[Leo]

Well, I think also what it does is it sets up the. Kieran being so fucking careless with his, like, evidence, his box of evidence. And he had unlocked the things with his personal key, which he leaves on top of the box and then rushes off and leaves his shit unattended to. So he doesn't like, tidy up after that. After he clearly is worried about Mikayla and that whole thing getting blown up. And also as he kind of rushes away, he explodes at Constantine. Uses that as like a. You're late. Stop Fucking around, you know, and that all kind of becomes motivation for Constantine. So I kind of see how it works.

[Abu]

Yeah, sure. Right. But you just laid out a lot of great plot reasons why it happened. Has to happen this way, and not a lot of, like, internal character.

[Leo]

Exactly.

[Abu]

Why it happens, you know?

[Leo]

Exactly.

[Abu]

And so I suppose that's where a little bit of my criticism lies. But it's still a fun scene. And, oh, my gosh, Travis Fimmel hamming it up. We're gonna catch some insurgents.

[Leo]

I'm sorry. I didn't know you had a dance lesson. Next time.

[Abu]

He's having so much fun.

[Leo]

So he. I love every one of his scenes. It's so good.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's so great. We'll have more to say about that later. Continuing with our summary. Jumping back to Wallach 9. Avila is out at the spaceport receiving that blood sample of Desmond Hart that Valia has sent over. While we cut to this, like, dramatic shot of Sister Emmaline surrounded by the Avengers. Like a very, like, superhero pose shot. That splinter group that we saw in last episode kind of watching. Or maybe not the splinter group. Maybe just you had pointed this out, that this totally went over my head. But it. It seems to be the sisters who are remaining at the school standing up there and watching while we see a number of other sisters actually getting onto this ship that arrived. So clearly, there's a lot of dropouts.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

From the school. And Avila explicitly says that later in the episode, too. So that was. That was a good catch from you. That had gone completely over my head.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Well, from the spaceport, we then cut back to the secret room where Lila is being kept. Lila and Jen are chatting a little bit. Jen is getting her caught up on those creepy, scared visions that everyone's worried about. And Lila's like, oh, yeah, the ones with the eyes.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Jen's like, love that episode.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

And it turns out that Lila is actually currently possessed, as we will learn in mere moments, by Raquela. And Jen's like, oh, I'm not talking to Lila, am I? This is somebody else. They rush up to Tula's lab, hopefully in secret. Hopefully nobody saw them. That would raise some awkward questions. In the lab, Lila slash Raquela. Immediately. I loved this. Immediately starts bossing everyone around.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

She quickly grabs this sample of Kasha's brain stem and starts running it through the machinery while telling Sister Jen to look for patterns. Go do that over there, please. Immediately takes control of the situation. And it's really fun to watch Tula Also immediately become the student.

[Leo]

Like, understand. Yeah. And her becoming the sort of subservient. Oh, Raquel is here. Yes, yes, of course. The staring will only squander our opportunity or whatever. The line is incredible. And Tula going, oh, yes, yes, right.

[Abu]

Yes, ma'am. Such great stuff. And I want to shout out both Olivia Williams, who plays Tula, and Chloe Lee, who plays Lila for just crushing this scene. I loved it. Top notch.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

Ultimately, though, the big reveal from this scene that we will find out in the episode is Raquela recognizes this virus. She came across it in the war itself. Desmond's powers, or at least how Kasha died, seem to be connected in some way to a machine airborne virus that was used against humanity back during the war.

[Leo]

Big, big, big reveal. Glad we're getting some answers, even if agreed. Even if we're not exactly sure how they connect yet. Well, back with the Harkonnens, we learned that Haro has actually been acting on Valya's orders. What? Plans within plans in the Dune universe? First time hearing of it.

[Abu]

I loved this.

[Leo]

This was fun. And it was good, too, to see. Well, knowing that he might be trying to record her right now and trying to, like, get his own upper hand. We are seeing him trying to kind of carve out his own plans within plans, which I also appreciate same. He also reveals himself to be quite a bit sharper than perhaps we expect of him. He says, quote, if I only had a truth sayer to tell me if you're sincere or not. End quote.

[Abu]

Right to the Mother Superior's face.

[Leo]

What a good line. Kind of, like, delivered with this, like, sad irony of, like, well, I know I'm kind of fucked in this situation because I have to rely on you. And she's. She basically says as much. She's like, you just have to trust me. Which is hilarious.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Now Theodosia is confused about Valia's larger plan. And the Mother Superior, you know, she's asking, what does Francesca have to do with any of this?

[Abu]

Right. Why are we distracting Desmond?

[Leo]

What's going on here? And Valya says, well, you should know this thing about imprinting. And one day you'll probably learn about this thing.

[Abu]

I got giddy when they dropped that word.

[Leo]

So good. Imprinting is very cool. And she describes it, quote, an emotional and physical bond that never breaks. End quote.

[Abu]

Uh huh.

[Leo]

And good Lord. Tabu, the actress who plays Francesca. Yeah, I'm already feeling that bond.

[Abu]

Consider me imprinted.

[Leo]

I'm imprinted.

[Abu]

So this bond is never going to break.

[Leo]

God. And she really. She does a great job of doing that.

[Abu]

She does.

[Leo]

So we see that bond at work in a scene where she's walking with Havoco and literally his loser son Constantine, who's, like, always on drugs and fucking people. Havoco's like, okay, I guess I'll give him an opportunity to, like, rise to the occasion. And it's really a compelling argument she makes. Like, you also had your, like, you know, roguish days.

[Abu]

Your playboy days.

[Leo]

Your playboy days. I was your support. But he needs that support, and he doesn't have any support right now. Come on, do me a favor. And when he moves to kiss her, because, like, obviously she pushes him back his moment of shock from him, and she goes, I'm not here to drive a wedge between you. You and your wife. And of course, just like. Like mother, like son, like mother. Thirty minutes later, she will drive away.

[Abu]

She will be doing exactly.

[Leo]

Doing exactly that.

[Abu]

Which I really loved that as well, because if they had just kissed here, I think the. It would have been played off as a little amateur. But a sister knows that a huge part of desire is wanting a thing you can't have right now.

[Leo]

A thousand percent. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if they just banged. If they just, like, went straight to.

[Abu]

The bang right here, it kind of would have been, like, on the nose and kind of lame.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Right after getting an explanation of imprinting.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

But it was much more subtle and much better in the way that it's clear that Francesca knows. Java Co's like, this guy's bricked up. He's been bricked up since the moment I landed on this planet.

[Leo]

He got. He got fucked fully hard the second her Plant. Her. Her ship touched down. And he didn't even know why. He was just like, well, that's right. That's strange. Let me adjust.

[Abu]

Like, how do you. How do you make sure your manipulation, like, fully lands? You draw that desire out. You make Havoco want it so bad.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And I think that's exactly what she's doing here. So I. I loved this scene. And I. I agree. Taboo knocked it out of the park.

[Leo]

I also. I will say I loved that there. They showed their intimacy, not as, like, banging in sex, like kind of a young person.

[Abu]

Yes. I appreciate.

[Leo]

Because even later, when they're more together, they're in the. His podcast studio when she, like, basically unbuttons his shirt and just puts her hand on his chest.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

I got flustered. I was like, oh, my God. I'm, like, almost embarrassed to be witnessing this moment because it's so gentle and so intimate and so beautiful. Yeah, I. Completely forgetting that I watched two people fuck for, like, six minutes in the first episode. I don't. It's just a very cool depiction of intimacy and bonding and connection that both of these actors did such a good job. I think Mark Strong, a lot of his facial expressions and a lot of his demeanor around her. You can just tell that he's, like, head over heels, smitten for this person.

[Abu]

Yep.

[Leo]

Really, really incredible.

[Abu]

Definitely. Okay. Returning back to our little science lab experiment on Wallach 9, Avila knocks on the door at the worst possible time. The Bunsen burner is on, and we're cooking. Now's not the time to interrupt, but she does. Tula answers the door, and Avila is understandably pissed. She's like, where the fuck have you been? You're not doing your job as the acting head of this school. Valia left you with a huge responsibility. Do you not realize we have acolytes just dropping out left and right?

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Get your shit together, Tula. What have you been up to? Yeah, Lila answers that question basically by just opening the door.

[Leo]

Hi. I'm. What Tula's been up to anyway.

[Abu]

Right? Oh, my gosh. Avila's reaction to this was so fun. I paused the episode right as I was taking notes about this scene, and I looked up, and Avila's just like.

[Leo]

You know, I really appreciated Tula's acting in this moment, too, because there's. She's not front and center when the door opens and Lila comes through, but she's on camera. And she, like, looks at Lila, kind of glances at Avila and then looks down and then back at Lila, and it's just so.

[Abu]

Like, her eyes are doing great work there.

[Leo]

It's so good. It's so good. Oh, it was.

[Abu]

It was such a good scene. But again, Tula, slash. Raquela interrupts, jumps in at this point to give us more information about the virus. She says that all of these nightmares and the recent deaths that have been happening, it's all actually interconnected thanks to this genetically modified airborne RNA retrovirus. The exact word she uses to describe this deadly plague or deadly weapon that Desmond Hart is using against them. Yeah, and I really liked that because that explains quite a bit, actually, because if you recall, even the Emperor had nightmares in episode one. And it makes you wonder, is Desmond manipulating everybody around him with fear? How much of this plague has spread to how many of these characters already?

[Leo]

That's a really good point. I mean, I know, like, I couldn't Help. As soon as we heard Airborne, I was thinking about everyone who's been in a room with Desmond. But also when he activates his Bernie powers, he kind of does a thing. And at first I was like, oh, is that like the whispering of the sands? Because he had this whole bit about Shai Hulude and the Leviathan. And I was like, you know, maybe that's the hissing of the sands. But now I'm thinking maybe he's literally just activating the virus that has planted in people's amygdalas and is now going to burn people. He has it within him. Maybe. Maybe he's spreading this virus. But. Yeah, that's such a good point.

[Abu]

Yeah. Well, I wanted to say, just to wrap up this moment, Sister Avila does say the thing she says the line that confirms the theory that we've been chatting about for a number of episodes now. Quote, what kind of abomination. Abomination is this? End quote. In reference to Lila being taken over by Raquela. So that confirms the theory that we and many, many of the folks in our community have been chatting about for many episodes now, that Lila is the very first abomination in Sisterhood history.

[Leo]

That's true. Or at least that we are. That we have seen.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Well, I know, Abu, how much you love De Klerb.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

So let's head to De Klerb. Desmond Hart and co arrive to question Mikayla about these alleged illegal activities. Now, right before they arrive, we see Mikayla and Kieran setting up these, like, chain detonator bombs, rigging the whole place with explosives. You know, Mikayla knows Desmond's on the way and she plans to kill him. That's her plan. That's the plan that Valya has set up. Even though this place, this bar, this club is Mikayla's, like, lifelong project.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And now she's having to blow it up for the sake of the sisterhood.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

So there is this sort of question of divided loyalty. And Mikayla, we get confirmation today that she is indeed Fremen.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

Which is interesting. That is. Well, that's interesting. So Mikayla is Fremen and she delivers what could definitely be seen as like a very fan servicey response. Right. Desmond asks her, these off worlders are raping your planet to, you know, get spice. They're destroying your planet and you're helping them. How do you. How do your people feel about this? How does this come to be? And she responds, quote, God created Arrakis to train the faithful. End quote. And then she says something like, but I'm here, you know, Like, I'm not all of what you're saying, the sort.

[Abu]

Of like a Fremen would never. A friend.

[Leo]

That doesn't really apply to me.

[Abu]

You don't know me.

[Leo]

Yeah. You don't know me. I've got my own shit going on.

[Abu]

Yeah. That's kind of the implication. Which. Man, I really cringed at this line because it's like there's so many better responses Michaela could have to this. You could write something that is much more poignant here because Desmond is. Is bringing up, like, cool stuff.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

There's a clear, like, oppressor and oppressed theme when it comes to the Fremen on Arrakis. We see that very clearly in Villeneuve's films. It's littered all throughout the books. And this feels like a moment where someone googled famous Dune quote about Fremen and wanted to throw this line in. It just. This felt like a very awkward bit of fan service to me and not really a response that even made sense in the moment to what Desmond was saying.

[Leo]

Yeah. And it's hard because the second I start going, well, let's explore the character and let's explore why this makes sense for her to be here and where her. A lot of that begins to fall flat because the idea of a Fremen working as like a drug arms smuggler off planet with the Benny, who's been trained by the Bene Gesserit and is a Bene Gesserit sister, all of that starts to feel very, like, not the most thought out though. You know, I'm sure if they have some, like, lore experts on the team, I'd be interested to hear how they've kind of reconciled that Brian's books in particular have some characters, some Fremen characters who don't make any sense with, like, Fremen ideology. Famously, Ishanti will, like, shows her Krisnife to a room of off worlders.

[Abu]

Okay. And kills them.

[Leo]

No, no, no. She lets you let them live. Yeah. And then she puts it away without getting blood on it, which is fully not how, you know.

[Abu]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Leo]

I think. I think Michaela is a character who I very much want to like. And I think the actress is doing a really great job with what she's given. Unfortunately, a lot of the club stuff feels shallow and her response was a great opportunity to really talk about, like, Oppressor and her people and what is the perspective of someone.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And yeah, so, yeah, great point. Now, Desmond, in A moment that melted me. He leans into her real close, and I was like, oh, my God, Travis.

[Abu]

Are they gonna get.

[Leo]

Right here, right now, Travis. Female yes, yes, please. No. But in fact, he's pushing the button behind her and goes upstairs. He goes, let's see what we can find. Now he finds some contraband spice as well as Mikaela's sisterhood junk. Just all stuffed in contraband. Like, he just kind of sees it. He, like, looks over and goes, whoa, there it is.

[Abu]

Yeah, nice hidden wall panel that he needs to like break open.

[Leo]

No, in the drugs just there. All your. All your cocaine in one basket. That's what I say.

[Abu]

Oh, God.

[Leo]

This rebellion is doomed to fail, I'm sorry to say. Now, yeah, definitely Kieran and Michaela having Kieran, you know, knifes some of these elite fighters. And with the explosives armed, primed, ready to go, they fight their way out of the club. In the club, we all are detonated by explosives.

[Abu]

Boom.

[Leo]

And of course, Desmond survives because of plot armor. He's clearly the main character. And on the outside of the club, Kieran and Michaela confront one another. Kieran saw her use a knife, which is enough evidence.

[Abu]

A sister knife.

[Leo]

Well, a knife. And he goes, I've seen a knife like that before. Because he saw Yanez with the same knife. Yeah, but still. Yeah, that's enough to conclude everything. She's a smuggler. Why? Why? Is the explanation not that she killed a sister and took her knife? Like, I don't know. I feel like there's any. Doesn't matter. He goes, oh, you're a sister. And she's like, yeah. Doesn't even try to explain it away. She's like, oh, you caught me. I guess. But she's like, we all have secrets, Atreides. And he goes, don't let me see you again. And then I think that maybe she will see him again at some point. But there we have it. Desmond survives. All of those other nameless soldiers died, probably. And Kieran and Mikayla are on the lamb.

[Abu]

That's right. Okay. Returning to the palace, we join Tipsy Constantine in the training room after getting reprimanded by a stressed out Kieran earlier. He is taking his anger and stress out on the training dummy, whacking away at it. And then his mom comes in and the two of them kind of sit down and. And chat. They have a heart to heart. Constantine kind of gets right to the question, basically. It's quite bold of him. He's like, yo, mom, you're part of the sisterhood. Sisterhood's. Always up to some shit. What is my purpose in being born? Where do I fit into your planning then? You know, which is kind of sad when you think about it. Like, he doesn't think his parents had him because they loved each other. He thinks his mom had him for a nefarious purpose. My heart does go out to Constantine about that. In this moment, after a bit of sort of deflecting the question and trying to, like, talk about other stuff, Francesca does ultimately admit that Constantine, your purpose. My purpose in having you was so that you could protect your sister, the future empress of the known universe, at all costs against enemies foreign and domestic, against people who even claim to love her.

[Leo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Abu]

And I think I believe that. You know, for a second, I was like, oh, Francesca may be just manipulating Constantine here, but I think it makes sense within the plan that Valia, Francesca, Tula had all, like, agreed upon when they were kids. Right. Get a sister on the throne. So I don't know. I don't. I don't think Francesca is, like, lying or manipulating here. I think she's actually telling Constantine the truth.

[Leo]

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

I kind of get the impression she. She really does care about Constantine.

[Abu]

I think so, too.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

I did want to pause here a moment and once again yell from the rooftops that everyone seems to know that the sisterhood is up to scheming, like, do up to no good. So I'm just, like, baffled that all season long, outside of a couple of throwaway lines here and there, we've not seen anyone in a position of power question their sisters, question their truthsayers, question other sisters. Like, I'm, like, really disappointed we didn't get that nuance at all in this season. I feel like we even set some of those pieces up to come into play and then never followed through. And honestly, I want to give shouts to my guy Harrow, who seems to be the only one doing this. He's openly questioning the Mother Superior to her face. And he's seemingly. If your theory about the Recorder, which I think is spot on, if that pans out, he's seemingly even maneuvering against her without her knowledge, just in case. Making sure he has dirt on her in case he needs it. Like, that's cool. That's the kind of, like, Dune, political plans within plans, maneuvering. I want to see more of. And only Harrow is doing it. Not the Emperor, not these other Landsraad councillors. I would have liked to see more of that nuance, a little more of that Tug and pull of the trust and the truth and what's lie and what's manipulation from both parties. It seems quite sisterhood heavy throughout the show, which is a little disappointing because it, it oversimplifies what I think is a lot of interesting politics.

[Leo]

Yeah, no, that's fair. And I think that there's. To your point, I think there's a lot of room in there for interesting storytelling that we're just not getting. I think I still double down on the fact that, like, you go, hey, hi, nice to meet you. I'm the representative of the Bene Gesserit, or the Sisterhood, whatever we're calling it. We all lie and manipulate everyone, but we have the ability to tell if people are lying or not. And if you hire us or if I'm assigned to you, I'm going to be your liar and manipulator who can help you lie and manipulate your way through this imperium. Do you want someone on your side and you go, and everyone else has one and you go, yeah. And they go, oh, shit. Okay, yeah, I want one. I want someone who can tell me if people are lying and if over the last 50 years, the houses with truthsayers are doing that much better in business and are doing that much better in the galaxy and in politics and all these things are right.

[Abu]

It seems like a coveted thing. Like Harrow is desperate to have a truthsayer.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I think that that is like, that's a behind the scenes thing that we're not really getting. And in Sisterhood of Dune and in Mentats of Dune, there is this feeling of like, you prove that you are there to give good information and you prove your value in a way. At one point, Dorothea does a like one on one battle, like a truth off with a souk torturing Doctor who. His whole purpose is like, you cause maximum pain to people and then they give you answers. She and him go head to head to see who can, like, who's the better truth discerner. Right. So anyway, this is a thing that's being sussed out kind of actively. And I completely agree. I think there is a, like one or two episodes worth of content that we could really enjoy and chew apart of people, like asking those questions coming up on the like, well, whether or not I trust these people, I need their help.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

And that could be interesting.

[Abu]

It's totally valid to be like, I need them. They're too useful. Even if they aren't manipulating me, I just have to make sure that I'm out Manipulating them.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

That's kind of the relationship that Baron has with Thier, right?

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, true.

[Abu]

It's like I don't fucking trust you and I know you don't trust me, but I have this poison antidote. So I've got you by the balls and I just have to make sure I outmaneuver you because you're too useful to throw away as a tool.

[Leo]

Great. Yeah, great analogy.

[Abu]

It's such a juicy relationship and the interpersonal politics there are so great and it seems to be like quite dubbed down or as you're saying, way too much in the background of this show. And that makes a lot of the politics and palace intrigue a little oversimplified for my tastes.

[Leo]

Yeah, I do really like because in this case we do also have this dichotomy of those in power all like men, like braggadocious men. And the ones their truthsayers are women. And so I also like in this context we could have a really fun. We could have a great scene where we see the guy thinking that he's this like 5D chess champion who's like I'm going to out manipulate this woman and, and like how good that would be. But then it turns out that she, she's like doing just enough to be underestimated constantly.

[Abu]

Right. Show us that. Like, ooh, Leo, now you're.

[Leo]

You know, listen, we'll get it, we'll get it in season two.

[Abu]

Hopefully. Hopefully. I truly, I truly genuinely hope so.

[Leo]

Yeah. Same. Well, back to Kieran being a idiot cured Atreides. Everyone's favorite mastermind, conspirator, sword master has a goddamn box full of incriminating evidence that he just left unlocked. And Constantine finds it putting back his swords after his drunken training session.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And Constantine has him arrested.

[Abu]

Tough look.

[Leo]

Now at dinner that evening on the terrace, my favorite terrace. A very proud papa Emperor Havoco is like, guys, hey, stand up. Stand up. Constantine. Little light hearted dinner announcement. I've had a traitor living in my palace for 10 years and my son.

[Abu]

Found him never boring.

[Leo]

Never boring. I'd be like, I'm going to have three more glasses of wine. This is great.

[Abu]

Wait, what?

[Leo]

What?

[Abu]

Hand me the bread rolls, please.

[Leo]

Oh my God. Pass the ro. Yeah. So good. So juicy. I was surprised that he was like my sword master. I was like, yeah, wow, that feels.

[Abu]

Should he be leaking that?

[Leo]

It feels like you run not a great ship. Now that such a high level person and you're as a traitor.

[Abu]

That's true. Good catch.

[Leo]

I'm Almost like it would be better to say a prominent member of the staff or something like that so that people aren't. But he had to say the sword master. So Inez knows to go find whatever. Anyway, he announces that because of this. Because of this swift action and everything, and also, of course, because of everything Francesca said, he is going to make Constantine the commander of the fleet that's going to go to Arrakis and, you know, regain complete control over the spice production there.

[Abu]

Nice.

[Leo]

Huge, huge W for our buddy Constantine, who, meanwhile, has fully let down Inez. Again. That's not how he's going to see it. He's going to see it through the lens that Francesca has given him of. Protect Yanez at all costs against people even who. Those who claim to love her.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

He knows that she probably won't love this, but he also is doing this to protect her from this traitor. He doesn't understand her connection to the. The, you know, Kieran plot. So kind of fun. This is sort of tragic. Each character, I kind of understand where they're coming from, so I appreciate that. Now, a lot of angry glances and looks around the dinner table. Natalia and Inez are both upset, and I think both storm off, which is funny. Natalia leaves immediately. Like, she leaves pretty early, and people watch her leave. And then Inez is just, like, off on her own. And I kind of get the impression she also left, but who knows? She goes to the Suspenser prison to talk to Kieran, and I'm like, where are the fucking guards?

[Abu]

Where are the guards? Wasn't she just being followed in the last episode by guards?

[Leo]

They wouldn't let her go anywhere without them. And also, she has been trained by this guy for years. Okay, off by her. Okay, sure.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

So she. She does kind of a DIY truth sense on Kieran. Clearly, by the camera work, we get the impression she's doing a pretty good job of it. And he claims. He was like, listen, I couldn't bring myself to do it. Which, sure, I feel like he. Yeah, he did start to put the great back after she came out.

[Abu]

And when she stepped. When she stepped forward, once he, like, fully realized she was gonna get blown up. Yeah, I do think he backed out.

[Leo]

But also.

[Abu]

Right. Also kind of a totally moot point after the whole Desmond thing.

[Leo]

Exactly. So he claims. Yeah, I couldn't go through with it. I chose you over my own principles. Although, let's be clear, I'm still willing to die for my principles. And she goes, do you really believe you can bring about a better Imperium. And I'm like, what a stupid question. Yeah, fucking. Of course he does.

[Abu]

He was going to blow up. You're dead.

[Leo]

He's gonna blow up a whole room full of, like. Of course he believes that. That doesn't mean it's true. And it doesn't mean that he. His plan has any stock or, like, any value. Yeah, very, very interesting use of truth sense again. Knowing what questions to ask is probably one of the classes she hasn't gotten to attend yet.

[Abu]

Yeah, for real.

[Leo]

And there we have our Yanez and Kieran set up to do something.

[Abu]

That's right. Okay, to wrap up our summary, in our final moments of this episode, we get some bombshell reveals.

[Leo]

Oh, my God.

[Abu]

Tula takes the DNA sample that Valia sends to the breeding index room. She plugs it into the AI and realizes, oh, my God. This sample.

[Leo]

Oh, my God.

[Abu]

Heart Harkenin Part Atreides. It's your son. It's Tula's child with Ori Atreides.

[Leo]

Oh, my God. A Harkonnen Atreides child. Sounds like a Kwisatz Haderact to me.

[Abu]

Sounds like a Kwisatz Haderach indeed. Meanwhile, while Tula is getting this bombshell reveal, we also intercut this with Natalia, who is meeting with Desmond in his office. The two have a shared moment of hatred for the sisterhood, where they explain to each other why exactly they despise the sisterhood so much. And then they kiss and promise each other that they will take down the sisterhood at all costs. We also get a quick shot, as you mentioned earlier, of Francesca and Javico getting intimate in the podcast studio that we love so much.

[Leo]

They're launching an ASMR OnlyFans where you just get to listen in perfect detail to their intimacy.

[Abu]

That's right. I'd listen. I'd sign up. I had a question for you about this final scene. Natalia, who's been sort of like this elusive character all season, says some very clear and obvious religious stuff about Shai Hulud in these final moments with Desmond. And, you know, she says, you've been chosen. She says, I've been chosen.

[Leo]

I was chosen.

[Abu]

Yeah, she's a believer in something. The repeated Shah Hulud references also, I guess, point toward Fremen, but I feel like we've gotten zero indication that Natalia has any connection to Arrakis or the Fremen religion of any kind. So I guess I'm wondering what your read on it is, because I'm a little confounded about Natalia as a character.

[Leo]

Yeah. I'm not sure. In Sisterhood of Dune, Mentats of Dune. I don't think there's really an analogous element here to draw from. Again, I haven't finished Navigators of Dune, so there's possible. It's possible something's there. But yeah, I mean, I think I kind of feel like from her line, because she says to Desmond, I was chosen once. Or she kind of was, like, talking about it in past tense and it kind of felt like it was more about the politicking of the Empire and not something specific to, like, the Fremen or Arrakis. So, yeah.

[Abu]

Yeah, I think she meant it as, like, I was chosen as the Empress to lead this empire.

[Leo]

Yeah. Through the arranged marriage and through she. She rationalizes it through God and things like that. Yeah, maybe.

[Abu]

Yeah. I think tbd. I think there's a lot still about Natalia that we don't know yet.

[Leo]

Well, okay, so that is our summary. We're going to talk about what worked and what didn't work as much for us. But first we're going to take a quick break, so don't go anywhere. Dear listener, when we're back, we're talking what we liked about this episode.

[Abu]

The holidays are about spending time with.

[Leo]

Your loved ones and creating magical memories.

[Abu]

That will last a lifetime. So whether it's family and friends you haven't seen in a while, or those who you see all the time, share holiday magic this season with an ice cold Coca Cola.

[Leo]

Copyright 2024, the Coca Cola Company. Baking Hershey's Kisses peanut butter blossoms is.

[Abu]

The perfect way to celebrate the holiday season with friends and family with their classic rich, creamy milk chocolate taste. There's no better way to heartwarm the.

[Leo]

Holidays than by baking with Kisses chocolates. Find Hershey's Kisses holiday chocolates at your favorite retailer.

[Abu]

Welcome back, folks. Let's continue our conversation about Dune Prophecy episode five. And let's debrief a little bit. Leo, talk about what worked for us and what didn't work for us. I'll hand it to you first.

[Leo]

Oh, sure.

[Abu]

What did you love about this episode?

[Leo]

Yeah, well, listen, everything Travis Flamel is doing, I am having so much fun with this guy. In the scene with Haru Harkonnen, where Haru is like, which means. And his response? I don't know. This is your story. What does it mean? Like, so I was laughing out loud. It's so funny. His delivery was perfect. The way he deflated a little bit when Haru started talking about whale fur. It's Just great. Travis Flamel is doing a great job. And in some of the, like, official podcast conversations and in the HBO little, like, Peaks, behind the behind the Veil or beyond the Veil, they're talking about how he's really delivering on set in a way that the other actors are also respecting. So just love it. And every scene that he's in, I'm having a great time. I thought that his reveal that he is the child of Tula Via Ori Atreides was actually very well handled. We have been heavily speculating these last few weeks, and the fact that this still caught me off guard and was still like, whoa, holy shit, that's. Oh, that's great. Just hats off to the creative team. Great job.

[Abu]

Totally.

[Leo]

I also think we now can go back and look at the last five episodes. It is possible Desmond Hart has some idea of his lineage, and if he does, that adds a lot of spice to the scenes where they're talking about bloodlines and what people are beholden to and they. What they've inherited from past people. Harrow says to him, we are not our bloodlines is the direct question quote. And that is such an interesting thing for him to say to Desmond. This cross of Atreides and Harkonnen also, I love that the whole time, Haru Harkonnen's going, oh, my aunt. She's so conniving. And I'm like, don't you mean your. Both of your aunts? Like, this is your cousins. This is so much fun. So it's cool. I really liked that reveal, and I'm really enjoying it. Next thing. I loved Tabuu. Tabu's performance as Francesca is fucking spectacular. There have been scenes in the show that cut way more often than I prefer. Like the one of the club scenes where Yanez surprises Kieran and the Hulk Hogan when she shows up. When they get off the couch, there's like four camera cuts to show them standing up. And it's so distracting for me, the fact that we get these scenes, some of these scenes with Taboo playing Francesca, the camera really lingers and gives her time to, like, be this really expressive, emotive actress. She's so good. There's a scene with her and Constantine where really she's listening to him talk, and then she responds, and then he turns and talks to her, and it's a long take, and I'm like, yeah, that's. That's the gold. What she's putting down is so good.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And then finally, I wanted to shout out, I mentioned it already, but I'll just say it quickly. Mark Strong and Taboo. I think both of them did a great job of showing the imprinting and really depicting that was excellent. We see that bond that kind of marks someone's heart forever. And again, I think just I said it in the little FaceTime call, but Francesca convincing Havoco to give Konstantin a chance is literally the best depiction of the Voice that we've seen. I think almost ever. Because she understands him. She knows how to manipulate him. She uses her voice to do so. That is the Voice through and through. It is better than it was shown in Villeneuve. It is better than it has been shown in prophecy. It's not even called the Voice in prophecy, what she's doing right now. But if anybody's curious what the Voice is, it is her getting her lover to give his deadbeat, druggie sex addict son command of his army and him being like, all right, okay, if you say so, I'll do it. You know, that is what the voice is. 10 out of 10.

[Abu]

Loved it. That's a good point.

[Leo]

That's what I loved about the show, this episode. What about you? Anything come up? I know for sure, for instance, that you love that they blew up the clerk.

[Abu]

Absolutely correct. Good fucking riddance. I echo a lot of what you said, actually. I had a lot of fun with the Lyla Raquela abomination stuff. Super glad that we got some answers about this virus. And I'm glad that we have all of this forward momentum in the story. Something that I really feel I've been hungry for for many episodes now. Things were moving and shaking and reveals were happening and characters were interacting and clashes were taking place. And a lot of the sisterhood stuff was very juicy. So I really appreciated that and enjoyed it quite a bit. I echo your sentiment about Sister Francesca and Tabuu. My goodness. It was a huge risk, I think, to introduce a character so late in a penultimate episode. But I think it actually worked perfectly to introduce Francesca this late in the game because it added just the right amount of wrinkle to what's going on with the palace stuff and Constantine and the emperor. So I think it played quite well.

[Leo]

And I think it's earned, too, is a huge thing. Like, we got. I know that when we were talking in the FaceTime, people might have missed that Valya in school had her, like, two BFFs. It was Kasha and Francesca were her, like, best friends in. In. When she was a. Just an acolyte.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

It's not like, imagine a universe in which this character is someone who wasn't introduced and hasn't been name dropped at all. It would be awful.

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

It would be. It kind of how I feel about the whole Horcrux thing, the fact that we only get the word Horcrux, like, six, five books into Harry Potter. It feels unearned because you're just going, oh, you've, like, retconned some important thing who you never told me about. But here we see there might have been viewers going, oh, so actually, oh, that friend is Kasha who we saw die. Who's the other friend? Where's the other friend here? The other friend is returning in episode five.

[Abu]

So anyway, and to know that she's wrapped up in the plot that they said about and agreed to 30 years ago as acolytes as kids, that she is directly involved. Her son is Constantine Corrino.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And he was a strategic son to have in order to further their plot of putting Inez on the throne. So.

[Leo]

And she knows about the reckoning. And she knows it. Like she.

[Abu]

Yeah, she knows. Right, Exactly. So, yes, I think that is exact. You're spot on. You hit it on the nail on the head. That is precisely why the risk of introducing a new character so late in the game works, because we. We have earned it throughout the season. I also want to echo your sentiment that Travis Fimmel was a lot of fun to watch in this episode, and honestly has been all season long. He is hamming it up in every scene that he's in. It's obvious that he's having so much fun playing Desmond Hart and fully enjoying the role, and that makes me enjoy it too, honestly. So it's been. It's fun to watch him. Some of the overtop ness does take me out a little bit, but again, I'm just, like, so willing to forgive it because it's clear he's having a fucking blast. So, yeah, I'm having a blast too. And I agree that the Desmond reveal at the end, I think, landed well. Another thing that I think this season earned and was able to pull off excellently. And I'm super excited to see how that plays out, how that affects Tula, how that affects anyone else who learns the truth.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's huge.

[Abu]

Let's shift gears then. What are some things that didn't quite work for you this episode?

[Leo]

Uh, well, it is hard not to roll my eyes at these fucking idiot conspirators. Like, it's. And it's a one, two punch in this episode because we See, Michaela has been keeping her super secret Bene Gesserit shit just buried in piles of drugs. Like, oh, my God, smuggled goods, contraband goods. Come on. What are you doing? You're a sister. Your whole thing is lies and secrets. Come on. And then we see Constantine with his box of incriminating evidence, trademark pending, just chilling in the locker that he left unlocked. Like I could also. Excuse me.

[Abu]

Your locker in your training room, bro. Yeah, anywhere else in the palace.

[Leo]

So, okay, two fixes. Okay. One fix for Michaela. I needed a line of dialog to explain the clumsiness. Like, okay, yeah, no one goes up there except for her. And then it just needs to be a compartment that Travis saw with his special McGuffin eye because he's already saying that he can see things that other people can't.

[Abu]

Anything like that solved that.

[Leo]

Let's fix Kieran's box of shit Francesca planted. Boom. See? Then it's solved. If Francesca planted the evidence, then he's like, I don't know why that's there, but I. Gig is up, I guess.

[Abu]

Like, that's brilliant, Leo. Holy shit.

[Leo]

Because if Francesca planted it, it would make sense, too, with what she said earlier to Constantine, blah, blah, blah. But we don't get that. We just get him because. Okay.

[Abu]

Also go off. Go off.

[Leo]

Why didn't he just fucking bring it with him? Why is he keeping the scanning bot as part of this fucking thing? We see him leave, bring it with you, drop it at the smuggler house. He's like, my cover isn't fucking blown. It's about to be, Guy. You're leaving all the incriminating shit on premise. You're leaving all the time. Like, just bring it with you. You know, he. He leaves. He goes, I'm going to go take Mikayla, drop it there. It would be zero incrimination if they found an autonomous drone. Anywhere else. Anywhere else. Your fucking locker is so goddamn dumb. Kieran. God damn it. Here.

[Abu]

Here. Oh, my.

[Leo]

Anyway, I'm glad the Clerb is blown up. And. And I also want to say about the Clerb getting blown up. And this, again, continues to be some of this, like, little clumsiness. This is a minor detail, but you have. We see elite soldiers who, in their entire job, in that moment is to find things. They're looking around, right?

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

And you're telling me that not one of them found one of the many, many explosives that have been armed and are like, blinking light on the ceiling and all these different. Okay. They don't find all of them, but not one of them. Found one of them. And then went, hey, boss, maybe we should get out of this building. It's armed to explode. Or find the one who's got.

[Abu]

You know, it's like, such an action movie cliche.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I was like, it took me.

[Abu]

You could also explain Desmond surviving. If one of them goes, fuck, it's rigged, Everybody run. And maybe Desmond just, like, you know, and some of the survivors get out in time and survive. And we don't need to, like, use plot armor to save Desmond's life in the moment.

[Leo]

Yeah. Because now I'm left wondering, like, do Holtzman shields protect you from being in the middle of an explosion? And I think the answer is no. So maybe we'll get answers in the next episode about why Desmond was able to survive the Sand War. Maybe we'll get answers to why he appears to be the main character and plot. Plot armored up.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

But I think. I think these little minor details and it's. It's that sort of, like, continuity thing that makes it hard to stay fully immersed in the storytelling in the world. Because it'll be like, wait, shouldn't. Isn't she, like, putting explosives everywhere? And then there's, like, multiple shots where you can see the explosives. All of the lights from just, like, a standing position. You just look over, and there's all the lights. Wide shot of all the explosives visible in frame. You know, we're not getting them going. Oh, I think that's a light or something. I don't know. Like. Yeah, it felt. It felt clunky and Right. Ultimately, it's not the end of the world. I'm still having a blast. I'm still having so much fun. But, like, Kieran and Michaela, in particular, their stupidity and then some of these, like, tiny little details just continues to take me out of it.

[Abu]

Right. And, you know, look, all movies ask the viewer to suspend some disbelief for the drama of it all. Sure. And, like, this can sound like nitpicking, but I will say, like, even the suspension of disbelief has to be earned a little bit. You know, you have to convince the audience, like, trust us, this is all gonna be great storytelling and drama. Just bear with me for a second. Buy into this for a second. And I think you're right. When the little details like this start becoming very noticeable is when the. The rest of it is also not up to par. When it feels clunky, when it feels unearned.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

That's when you start also noticing all the details and the parts of it that continue to feel even more unearned. Sort of. It kind of grows on itself there.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I. And I also. I know it's like the Cinemasins style. Like, the thing that people hate is just the, like, picking apart tiny little things. Because at the end of the day, I'm still loving the show, and so I don't want to get too hung up on that. I really did love this episode. I thought it was great, and I'm very excited for the finale, but this is the sort of thing that I hope there's less of in future episodes.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

What about you? What did. What kind of rubbed you the wrong way this episode?

[Abu]

A couple of things. I thought this was a stronger episode than last week, for sure. But at this point in the season, I'm checked out on the Karinos, frankly, just sort of emotionally speaking. Constantine, poor guy. Love him. Sad boy all the way. Pretty sad boy. Do your drugs, bang, bang, your ladies. Do your thing, Constantine. But you're taking up too much screen time in a show that barely has time for you. And I just, like, I'm not invested in this arc. Five episodes in, in fact. Yanez also, I feel like, has been wasted potential.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

She started off in episode one as such an interesting character that could have played a interesting, cool, major role in all of this and has, like, literally been sidelined for a lot of this season is, like, majorly out of the loop on things for a lot of this season, and that's kind of. It's not grabbing me in any way.

[Leo]

I will second that. I really liked Constantine's character arc, and I almost highlighted him as something that I liked in the episode, But I think you're spoiled spot on when you say he's taking up too much screen time for the other things that we're not seeing enough of. Because I do think that Yanez was set up to be a very interesting character. Between her. The mask slipping with Pruitt, with her really having, like, agency and, like, not just being a pawn. Yeah, it was very, very cool. And if you said, do you want to see a little bit less of this Constantine stuff? Which I still liked, but did it need to take as center stage as it was? I don't think so. And I think that's a great point that, like, if I could snap my fingers and give some of his screen time to Yanez and give her more character development and more, you know, everything, I would in a heartbeat. You know, as. As beautiful as he is and as great as of a job that I think the actor's doing. I'm glad the actor is giving. Being given some chances to like show his range. You know, he's been the kind of like druggie playboy quite a bit in the show already. To see some like, heart and some tears and some like in this episode. Good. He's doing a great job. But I do think that Yanez was the more compelling character and to see her kind of defining her own agency would have been a stronger or it would have been a choice that resonated more with me.

[Abu]

Yeah, I agree. Personally, I can agree.

[Leo]

So I'm right there with you.

[Abu]

Continuing down the list of Karinos, though, I think Empress Natalia is another really weak point as far as characters go in this season in particular. Like, I guess we're setting her up as some sort of Varys, like from Game of Thrones. Varys, the spymaster style character who's behind the scenes pulling strings. But I don't think we've seen her really do any of that. And really she's just kind of popped into each episode to hand out MacGuffins here and there. You know, here's some intel so that the later Landsraad scene can happen. I'm the one spreading rumors about Pruitt so that the sisters can then do the Harrow thing over there. You know, she seems to just kind of be this like plot device to get other things to happen in the plot rather than like a fully rounded self serving character with motivations that make sense and are logical for her character to be doing. So. I'm not vibing with Empress Natalia in any way at all.

[Leo]

I think we do need a scene of her getting the.

[Abu]

Definitely. Definitely.

[Leo]

Yeah. If she just has it. I'm like, and you haven't acted on this before? Why? Why have you had this in your back pocket? Were you waiting for someone like Desmond? Like, again, we just need a line or two more to justify why she has these, like, you know, smoking guns just in her bag. So many smoking guns. She's like, hey, I've got like 30 smoking guns.

[Abu]

You open her dresser and it's the fucking fire alarm goes off.

[Leo]

Oh, my God, all these smoking guns. She was just waiting for a strong man, a strong Desmond to come in. And yeah, I'm there because I like her. I like the Whisperer and I like that she is. She has her agency and I like that she's plotting and I like that, you know, all these things. I like quite a bit of her character. But we are not getting the scenes of her setting things up. So it just seems like the dominoes are falling and we're going, why? Who set those up? Did she set those up? Or who gave her these smoking guns? Right.

[Abu]

Why does somebody get the fire alarm?

[Leo]

So many smoking guns.

[Abu]

It's a button gun.

[Leo]

Are they all recently fired? Are they smoking a long time? Like, what's.

[Abu]

And then while we're on the Karinos, I do want to just hit on Javoco as Mark Strong.

[Leo]

I also want to hit on.

[Abu]

I said that backwards.

[Leo]

Mark Strong very much want to hit on Mark Strong.

[Abu]

I will say it's been incredibly fun watching Mark Strong play Java Go Carino, for what it's worth. And I don't have, like, a particular character or story critique against him per se, but again, zooming out in the larger sense of the season, I wanted to actually shout out Jason Concepcion. In my day job, I work with him. I also make podcasts in the day, so that's my life, folks, day and night. But over on his podcast, X Ray Vision, I was doing an episode with him and he had made an observation that a lot of the characters in the palace sections of the show feel like passengers in their own story. They're just being carried along by events and whatever the plot needs to happen next, rather than making choices that are causing plot events to happen. Rather than having agency, as we've said about Yanez, it just feels like they're being dragged along by the next plot point rather than being active participants in the story. And I really feel that strongly about the emperor. I do think some of that is intentional with the emperor. He is kind of played as this, like, sort of doofus who has no spine and is very insecure. So I understand some of that is definitely intentional, that he's just swept up.

[Leo]

In events and he's ruled by fear and he's living in the shadow of Roderick.

[Abu]

Absolutely. But he's also the emperor of the known universe, and you don't just get there or you don't stay there a very long time unless you are smart enough to make some choices. And it just doesn't feel like we've seen much agency from him in particular. So I wanted to shout Jason out. I think he made a pretty astute observation that aligns with some of my criticisms about the. About the palace intrigue.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Moving on from the Karinos and all of the palace stuff, I will say I echo everything you said about the Kieran and Rebel plot. It continues to be the Achilles heel of this season. We don't need to keep Harping on that. It's just rough all around. I think the show clearly does its best when one, it's focusing on Valia and Tula. It's why episode three was such a standout for me. When it's focusing on the Sisterhood stuff, it's like firing on all cylinders and we're doing stuff. I think the palace for me is hit or miss. It's kind of. Sometimes it can be good, sometimes it's bad, but the Rebel stuff is like, almost always. And since episode one has just been like, bad. So, like in a power ranking, like Sisterhood one, Palace to Rebel, a very low three.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

The last thing I'll mention is Lore. I know in the last episode I said I would stop caring about lore, but my nerdy little heart just can't. I'm having such a hard time just turning my brain off about the Lore stuff and trying to just watch the show and enjoy it. I'm just. I'm having a tough time reconciling this face Face dancer reveal about Theodosia, who didn't even do anything in this episode. I suspect a big twist coming in episode six around that. I'm having a really hard time squaring the circle of a Fremen in the sisterhood. The machine war virus stuff. Like, good to get answers, but also lore wise. I'm still like, now I have more questions about how this all fits into Dune lore. So, yeah, I guess my. I guess this final point is nothing in particular. It's just a general. Like, my lore obsessed brain is having a hard time ignoring some of the details.

[Leo]

Yeah. Not to mention, like some of it, for instance, Michaela being a Fremen who's a Bene Gesserit, who's off world, who's like smuggling shit and all that. Some of it now basically directly conflicts with Villeneuve's movies. So I think, like, my broader complaint about canonicity inconsistency between Brian's books and Frank's books is that it's confusing as shit. And it's really hard to like, enjoy this consistent universe when you are reading the books and really caring about the minutiae. But I think for the casual viewer as well, we see in Villeneuve's movies people talking about the barbarians in the desert and how no one knows anything about them and they're so mysterious and, you know, and, oh, blue within blue eyes. Interesting. Whoa. And then you just have characters around and part of the Bene Gesserit and, you know, when Jessica and Paul in Part two are like trying to figure out how to live with the Fremen. There's no sense at all of the Bene Gesserit having a history with the Fremen at all, even remotely. And there are ways that you can reconcile that. Like we had a live stream today. And there are ways that you can say, okay, here's my headcanon, or here's two 800 page novels. And it's explained at some point in those two, 800 page novels. And you go, great. But the problem is it didn't have to be a problem, and now it is, because you've introduced these characters and there's a right way to do it and there's a wrong way to do it. And it just feels like this is caught up.

[Abu]

You didn't have to tie all these pretzel knots in order to get to the explanation.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Or if you are going to tie those knots, then the value of it has to be worth it. The payoff has to be worth all the knot tying.

[Leo]

Yeah. And again, part of this is the challenge of trying to write deep, intricate prequel novels in a series that is as dense and wide as Dune is. Like if you made Mikayla some other person from another planet elsewhere. Like, I'm wondering what would be the downside to making Mikaela not Fremen? You know, if Mikayla were from another planet, let's say Harmanthep, she's from Harmanthep. And people go, how do your people feel about you joining the Bene Gesserit? You know, aren't they all about anti institution or whatever? And she's like, listen, I have secrets, you know, those aren't. I've left them behind. You could have just one line of dialogue that explains. Explains enough of her backstory that it doesn't super matter because so far I don't see the justification for making her Fremen. I was excited in the first episode to be like, oh, maybe this is just someone who's addicted to spice. Because not everyone with the eyes of a bat are Fremen, but turns out they just are. Turns out they just are Fremen.

[Abu]

It's a shorthand for Fremen. Yeah.

[Leo]

So anyway, I think we will complain about plot and lore and stuff like that. And for the most part, it's because we care so deeply about this universe and we've made up. I mean, it's been our job for the last four years to be experts on this. But I think it also does change the nature of those future books and stories that we love that come after this. And that is. That is what is frustrating is when, you know, things like machine war viruses are introduced. I'm like, and now we know it can be passed from person to person. Does that mean everyone at the time of Paul, you know, Paul and Jessica and Gurney and Thu, fear everyone's still got this RNA virus and if they get too scared, they'll burst into flames. Like, what's happening? You know, I'm not. So we'll see. Yeah, we'll see what episode six does.

[Abu]

But like, we're going to have to introduce an antidote at some point just to close the circle on why we don't see this later.

[Leo]

Yeah. Or someone will have to say, give it two generations and it'll be gone or something. And it's like, great, I'm glad you solved the problem you created. So anyway, no, I agree.

[Abu]

I fully agree.

[Leo]

Great points. Now, I did want to actually share. Our producer, Luna, watched the episode. We were talking about it, kind of getting a sense of what she liked, disliked. And she brought up a really good point, kind of a constructive point, which is advanced Dune stuff without groundwork.

[Abu]

Oh, I agree with this.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I really liked the way she explained this. She said something rubs her the wrong way about the things that took forever to learn in the original series. And it's just out in the open here, right? Face dancers.

[Abu]

Yes, exactly.

[Leo]

Abomination as a thing. Possibly the Sardaukar origin story. It is a lot to start in a six episode TV show. I understand plans within plans, but it's a lot. And that's. I think this gets back to our conversation from last episode about fan service. And you want to tip the hat to these different things.

[Abu]

Absolutely.

[Leo]

But when you start really stacking in. That's also why I hope that this is not the Sardaukar. I hope that this is just his elite force. Because if this is, then, good Lord, we are starting a lot of ships. And we don't need to. Because the best part of this series is Valia and Tula. And we can have those things as ready for season two or season five or season whatever. And those can have their own carefully crafted little moments versus oh, quickly, let's introduce an Ixion. Because we can. And instead we could have just made him another Richesian person. Right. Like he could have been a Richesian smuggler and nothing would be worse and we would still then get to meet our first Ixion at some point. So I really liked that point from Luna. I think that is one of the challenges. Like, we were at the club and didn't feel like it was Dune enough. So you do need to put Dune stuff in for it to feel like Dune. But you also run the risk if you try to show off too much of the Dune lore, which is pretty bold for us to be saying that. Gom Jabbar, but still.

[Abu]

But also to try and fill everything in.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Do we need the origin of the Sardaukar and the origin of the Sisterhood and the origin of the xyz, The Face Dancers?

[Leo]

Maybe the litany. Maybe the Gonjaba, Maybe the litany of fear?

[Abu]

You know, there is this urge in prequel storytelling to try and explain everything everywhere, all at once. And it's like, great movie. To your point. I think that focus on the strongest points of the show, Valia, Tula, the Sisterhood, would make it so that we don't have to feel like we also have to explain the origin of this lore thing or tip our hat to that lore thing. It's like, no. Well, we're focused on this right now, here in this moment in time.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And like, save the Sardaukar reveal for, like, another spin off show about some dope Sardaukar captain that takes place 3,000 years after this show, you know?

[Leo]

Totally. Yeah.

[Abu]

You have 10,000 years to play with. That's so much time we don't have to cram. And of course, Brian Herbert ultimately is the one who commits this sin. Like, we don't have to cram everything into the same time span that then plays out with Paul Atreides in 10,000 Years. 10,000 Years is a long time to just let this imperium and this universe evolve and grow into the shape it becomes in Frank Herbert's stories.

[Leo]

Yeah. At a certain point. Because also, the thing is, we all won. The people who are making this show, us on this podcast, our listeners, we all want more Dune. The thing that will get more Dune is not Dune reference filled chaos that is dense and hard to penetrate. Unless you are like the deepest of Dune fans. The thing that Will Get More Dune stuff are like, compelling, resonating stories that people connect with. And if that is the focus, if you tell a fucking compelling story with Valya and Tula, it might not have like, crazy fanfare the first time it launches, but it'll go on to have that, like, crazy cult following. Some affluent person down the road will fund a new thing down. Like, there are different paths to success, but all of them, the common thread is there's like heart and Emotion and human storytelling at the heart of it. That's where I'm like, let's take a little bit of that out, and let's just redouble down. That's also why I, like, resonate with your complaint about Constantine. Do I like Constantine quite a bit? Sure. But do we benefit from losing time with Yanez? Not necessarily.

[Abu]

Yeah. And I think you can point to another HBO show, the Last of Us, as, like, a shining example. That show didn't go. How do we get the gamers who played the game Last of Us to watch our show? Yeah, let's reference the game.

[Leo]

Yeah. Like, he's not grabbing. It would be very funny if there was a scene where he was just, like, grabbing shit off of every surface around him. Like, putting it in his infinite backpack. Yeah, exactly.

[Abu]

No, that show set out, and they were like, we're gonna retell the story of the Last of Us in television format with fucking incredible actors with the most gut punch emotional impact we can. We already have a great foundation to work off. Let's now turn it into an even greater TV show. And you know what that probably did? That probably fucking blew up sales of the Last of Us video game.

[Leo]

Probably. Yeah.

[Abu]

You know, so I. Man, you put that so beautifully. Like, I need to get that fucking tattooed on my body somewhere.

[Leo]

Please don't.

[Abu]

Like, exactly. Getting people invested in Dune is not like a.

[Leo]

It's not a lore challenge. Yeah. I mean, it's also, like, you think about the Last of Us show. It's not the episodes that most adhere to the video game that were the most standout. It was the, like, Bill backstory episode.

[Abu]

Bill backstory episode.

[Leo]

It was, like, one of the most monumental moments in television that I'll remember forever. And that's why I think that show is a masterpiece easily. And that is not even in the game. It's, like, hinted at. It's referenced a couple of times, but that is the creative team going, this is something that people will resonate with. And then they. They gave us that gift.

[Abu]

And that Bill episode wasn't crammed full of video game references.

[Leo]

It was a standalone.

[Abu]

It was its own incredibly emotional gut punch. Like, perfect hour of television. And, yeah, I couldn't agree.

[Leo]

So, okay, yeah. All of that to say, I really hope that the series gets renewed for a second season. And to all of our critiques and criticisms and all the things that we really loved, I hope that the thing moving forward is not a feeling of having to fill it with Dune stuff, because the thing that we all love about Dune is the human stories, and it is the questioning of charismatic leaders, and it is all of that.

[Abu]

So, anyway, yeah, completely.

[Leo]

We are going to take a final break, but don't go anywhere. Dear listener, we have a takeaway. Oh, my God. We are. This episode is so long. Good Lord. We have a takeaway. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Get stoked for all the holly jolly vibes this season at Dutch Bros. Stay cozy with returning winter faves. Hazelnut truffle mocha and candy cane mocha. Plus, the new Winter Shimmer Rebel energy drink blends up sweet cream and blue razz flavor with soft top and shimmer sprinks to keep those spirits energized all winter long. Download the Dutch Bros app to find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in places that could expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, their US Space restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply.

[Abu]

Welcome back, folks. Let's dive into our takeaway for today. Yeah, and for this one, it's the penultimate episode, so we wanted to just sort of hit pause and take stock of where things are at the moment as we head into the season one finale of Dune Prophecy. So, very quickly, as a reminder, here's where the chess pieces are right now. Right. First and foremost, we have Valya Harkonnen, who claims she has some sort of contingency plan to take out Desmond Hart now that the Clerb thing didn't work, and he survived that because of plot armor. And she has messaged Tula that Desmond has a power that I cannot account for. Right, and that shows us that perhaps Valya, as her plans continue to fail, is perhaps being pushed up against a wall and this contingency plan might be something desperate. Yeah, well, we'll have to see if that includes, for example, that Gom Jabbar needle that we saw in the trailer for Dune Prophecy that we have yet to see make an appearance in the show.

[Leo]

Yeah, I checked the she gives Haro Harkonnen a ring in this episode, and the ring is the ring from the uncle that shows that he's the head of House Harkonnen. Yeah, so when she gives him the Harkonnen ring, it's like, oh, cool. And my first thought was, is that the ring from the intro that becomes the Gom Jabbar? And it's not. But the ring that does become the Gom Jabbar is the one on her finger because she's wearing a ring. And that is the ring that in the intro, dissolves into a Gom Jabbar needle. So are we gonna see? I'm thinking maybe the contingency plan is like a high handed killer for Desmond Hart. And we're gonna see someone finally pricked by Gom Jabbar. We've never seen it before.

[Abu]

Damn.

[Leo]

We've always seen it threatened. That could be really cool. Also, we got the whole Tula backstory with the animals on Caladan and the poison sack. That's deadly. It's enough to kill a man. And then she injects the horse in the neck and she injects Ori in the neck. Generally, it feels like they're setting up. Maybe that poison is used on the Gom Jabbar needle.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Who knows? We'll see.

[Abu]

Great point, man. Leo. You're firing all soldiers today.

[Leo]

Trying.

[Abu]

Whatever you're drinking in that cup over there, keep drinking it.

[Leo]

All right, moonshine, here we go.

[Abu]

Okay, actually, speaking of Tula, let's check in with her. Tula, of course, is on Wallach 9. She's floundering a little bit with these shared visions that everyone's happening with the Lila situation. The Lila Regella situation. But we are getting valuable information about Desmond's powers.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

And of course, by the end of episode five, we get the huge reveal that Desmond is actually Tula and Ori's son.

[Leo]

Yeah. You thought you were watching CSI Wallach 9. Turns out you're watching Mori Wallach 9.

[Abu]

You are the mother.

[Leo]

You are the mother. Then she throws a chair into the audience. Excellent. But there is also this implicit threat. Lila's walking around or potentially with different memories. What if Dorothea takes over? What if Dorothea spills the beans? We already got that little. We got that. That moment where Jen goes, I'm sorry, what's the big project secret thing? And Tula shut her down. But what if Lila says something as she's possessed by Raquela? Or maybe she finds out. No, legitimately. Valia had Dorothea kill herself using that power she has.

[Abu]

Oh, yeah. We're sitting on a couple of powder kegs over there on Wallach 9 at.

[Leo]

The Sisterhood school, and Emmeline is like, anti machine jihadist. Again, like we're. Yeah.

[Abu]

Yeah, right. She's ready to turn coat.

[Leo]

Yeah. Ready to rebel. Lead her splinter faction, her Avengers. Now over to Desmond Hart, of course. Tula and Ori's son. And Proto Kwisatz Haderach. He has been recently promoted to Bashar of the Emperor's elite fighting force. He is banging the Empress, I guess.

[Abu]

Wow. Oh, my God.

[Leo]

Tbd. If that's a big deal, because Havoco's over, you know, with Francesca. He's having a great time.

[Abu]

Desmond Hart, release a masterclass. How do I also do this?

[Leo]

Yeah. In six episodes, you, too, can get from where I started in my dusty duds to my new slick drip. Yeah, he's doing well for himself. That was an insane combination of words, by the way.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Wow.

[Abu]

What the fuck? Javko. Karina, let's check in with our guy. He is currently by the end of this episode, and at this point in the season, back with his baby mama, sister Francesca, who has very clearly imprinted his heart, mind and soul. And he has just put his son in charge of a fleet that is headed for Arrakis.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And as everyone at the fucking dinner table learned, he's also arrested a traitorous swordmaster, Kieran Atreides. But we see Yanez visit him outside of visiting hours with no guards present.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So she's going to let him go, right? She's going to help him escape, obviously.

[Leo]

99%. Yeah. Now, Haro Harkonnen, it doesn't seem. Although he is kind of amicable with Valya, he doesn't seem super fond of her. All. He was thrown under the Imperial bus, literally. He was given that little glowy ball that Desmond, like, passed off. Might be a recorder. Might be something like that. Maybe he's going to try to impress the Emperor by betraying her in a way that she hasn't accounted for yet.

[Abu]

That would be cool.

[Leo]

So maybe, maybe, maybe.

[Abu]

Also, a couple of quick notes here that are important to remember going into this last episode. Don't forget Sister Theodosia. She didn't do anything in this episode. But Proto Face Dancer is out on the loose, folks. Don't trust anyone's face in this series going forward. Maybe in the next episode we'll get some sort of big twists. That one of the characters we've been watching all episode, or maybe even all season, has been Theodosia all along or something. I feel like she has to come into play if we're gonna reveal such a huge thing.

[Leo]

Yeah, I don't think it could be all Season. Because she was so like.

[Abu]

At least until. Yeah, that's true. At least until this last episode.

[Leo]

Yes. So all of episode five and episode six, maybe someone will turn out to be not who they appear.

[Abu]

Right. Everyone's face is suspect because any of them could be Theodosia.

[Leo]

It was actually armored guard number four was Theodosia the whole time. We're like, okay, she died in the clerb. We didn't see her because she got blown up in the clerb.

[Abu]

Another Valia plan gone. Arrival. He's just bad at planning.

[Leo]

Desmond survived. Oh, my God, he did. Oh, that's bad. Has anyone did it?

[Abu]

No guards or no guard number 42 specifically.

[Leo]

He's got kind of a. Oh, hey, Tula, it's me again. Really wish you were here.

[Abu]

And one last acolyte that's also important to remember is Sister Emmaline. We mentioned her a little bit earlier, but she is seemingly leading a splinter group within the sisterhood. How she got to this point, really and where it's going has practically not been touched on at all this season. And this is one thing I actually don't think will be addressed in episode six in the finale. Yeah, this feels like a future season. Internal rift, conflict within the sisterhood that.

[Leo]

We'Re just setting up now, I think we're gonna see. I think she's gonna either through a slip up from Dorothea slash Lila, or through something I think she's going to discover. Ana, roll the AI computer and that's gonna be where her plotline ends for episode six. Like, we're gonna get a conclusion of Valyan and Tula, but then we will go into a next season hopefully knowing that this leader of this little splinter cell has like, fully, you know, whatever discovered the secret and how is that going to be handled? That kind of feels the most appropriate. That's true.

[Abu]

That's a good point.

[Leo]

With our characters out of the way, we do have some questions heading into the final episode. Some big, some small. And while again, fingers crossed for a season two, some of them might be left to be explored another time. We do hope to get answers to most of these in the next hour of the show, starting with the core mystery at the heart of the series, Desmond Hart. How the fuck did he get his powers? Who is this guy?

[Abu]

I really thought we were getting this today in episode five.

[Leo]

I did too. And they gave us enough that I'm not upset about it. Like the fact that it's a machine plague, the fact that it's airborne, that yes, he is who he Is, you know, recapping his story. Tula sent him away to the brutal planet Balut. And among scavengers, he was forced to fight to survive. And that planet, as we covered, I think three episodes or two episodes ago, has a history with both the Tleilaxu and also the Machine Wars. We didn't think that the Tleilaxu would appear at all. But now we know Theodosia's Tleilaxu face dancer, so anything's possible. Did one of those factions, either the Machine, Omnius or Erasmus, did one of them give him powers and false memories? Did the Tleilaxu give him powers and false memories? Who is behind Desmond Hart? Who is he really?

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

Valia asked that question of him earlier. His answer would not have given her the truth she needed. I think. Now, Lila, slash Racella also told us that what Kasha was killed by was a, quote, genetically modified airborne RNA retrovirus. End quote. So in combination with Desmond kind of hissing, toasting the traitors, it does seem like he can disperse it from his body. But again, how does he target who burns and who doesn't if everyone in the room's got the virus? Maybe the nightmare is the sign that you've been infected.

[Abu]

What's the. What's the triggered.

[Leo]

What's the trigger? What. What, you know, causes it to happen? Clearly something he's doing. But what exactly is that? And how does he decide? Because ultimately, at the moment that he triggered Pruitt and Kasha, we have to assume that Havoco was also infected.

[Abu]

Right.

[Leo]

And. And is ruled by fear. Classically fearful guy. Why didn't he burn? And that's a question I think we need next episode.

[Abu]

Agreed. Agreed. Dying to know that. Another big question. We were just talking about Theodosia. What's her part in all of this? We keep calling her a face dancer because she is actually a confirmed face dancer. In the after show, like inside episode four, HBO Thing. Ep, Jordan Goldberg, who we had on the podcast and chatted with, says, quote, theo is an experiment, an early day experiment by the Tleilaxu. She's able to kind of change and shapeshift into other people. That power is extremely painful. End quote.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So, from the ep, Jordan Tleilaxu. An early day experiment. Obviously, as we've already sort of harped on earlier in the episode, this is very messy, lore wise, for many, many reasons. But, you know, we're still dying to get an answer about this in episode six. What was Valya's Purpose in bringing a shapeshifter to Seleucus Secundus. What role will Theo play in Valia's final gambit? Dying to know.

[Leo]

Do you think. Okay, question. Do you think she kills Desmond Hart and has Theo replace Desmond Hart? Or do you think she kills Mark Strong? Javago Carino.

[Abu]

Holy shit.

[Leo]

And has Theo take the throne, which would be a Bene Gesserit on the throne.

[Abu]

Damn, that is bold. That is bold and audacious.

[Leo]

Like, if she kills Desmond with the Gom Jabbar needle. And then we get a final scene of, I don't know, like, havoco and her confronting each other and him being like, I'll never forgive you. I'll never. And she's like, that's fine. And then kills him. And then Theo walks in as him.

[Abu]

Damn.

[Leo]

And like, that could be. That could be sick.

[Abu]

Wow. If that happens, Leo, I. I, like, owe you something. Five.

[Leo]

Five dollars? Five. Solari.

[Abu]

I was gonna say, like a five course meal. Handmade by me, with love. Like.

[Leo]

Oh, Jesus. I was really underestimated. Yeah, yeah. $5,000. Five pennies.

[Abu]

That. Gosh, that's bold. I don't know. I hesitate to even throw a theory out there because everything feels crazy. Anything involving Theodosia and a face dancer feels just so crazy. I don't know. I can't even predict.

[Leo]

It's also, it's. It's dangerous because, like, there are some options that are so good that however it turns out, if it's not that good, it's gonna be like, fuck, I fucked up by speculating too much.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

Because they are constrained to probably some beholden's to lore and stuff. So, you know, we'll see.

[Abu]

We'll see.

[Leo]

Now, another question heading into this final episode is with all of the extra screen time he's been given, will Haru Harkonnen betray his aunt in a bid for power?

[Abu]

Do it, bud. I believe in you.

[Leo]

I believe in you, dude. People have said, after the series was over, the actors were saying they actually really came to like Haru Harkonnen quite a bit. I think Alison Schapker was saying that, that he's becomes one of her favorite characters. So, yeah, maybe he does something. Maybe with a wink and a smile and a shrug, he turns out to still be within Valya's pocket, even after he does something bold that he thinks is fully his own. But nevertheless, what is he going to do? And how is that little glowing ball gonna play a part?

[Abu]

Yeah, gotta. I mean, I feel like we have to get that in episode six. So much. So much to get to in an hour of television. One more thing though that I think we like really need to get to in episode six is Yanez, who's very obviously gonna break Kieran out of prison. Like, we don't have to call that a prediction. But what happens after that once she does break him out of prison? What's going on with Yanez? Is she gonna joined the rebels? What's Kieran gonna do now that he's gone his separate ways from Mikayla and all his friends and fellow rebels are seemingly dead? Or at least that cell of the rebellion? Are they gonna get off planet and escape to wherever Kieran's other rebel friends are? A lot of questions lingering with these two characters. I don't think we're gonna get answers per se, but I would like us to set up something intriguing for season two with these two characters. It would be disappointing to just leave them dangling.

[Leo]

Yeah, especially Inez. I mean, leave Kieran dangling.

[Abu]

I don't give a shit. Leave that dude in the suspense of prison.

[Leo]

Yeah, he can still be there. That would be a very funny post credit scene. It's like all this stuff happens and then it just gets back to him. Like. Well, with only an hour left of Dune prophecy season one, it seems unlikely we're going to get answers to some questions that we would like answers to, but that it seems really unlikely that we will. And the first one, for instance, and this really kills me to say, I don't think we're going to get an answer to the glowing eyes in the Tiran RFL prophecy.

[Abu]

Agreed. I don't think so.

[Leo]

We might get some answers to what the two eyes are, but I think the Tiran Aura Fell prophecy and the reckoning. My prediction is that Valya defeats Desmond. We're good. We're fine. Post credit scene or maybe right at the end. I think she's going to have a new prophetic vision about a new Tiran Arafel prophecy. And I think it's going to be like, oh, we're not done yet. I thought we were done. We're not done. And I think that's also going to be part of the catalyzing thing of now we have to make our Kwisatz Haderach or now we need to do X, Y and Z. And we have so many years, but it's going to be done over the next 6,000 years or 10,000 years.

[Abu]

I think this is the long con RFL. Yeah, the RFL part endorsing thing like.

[Leo]

I could see maybe we've gotten enough hints and, like, better visions of the eyes and more of the eyes. So maybe we will get the eyes, but I don't think we're going to get the RFL prophecy resolved.

[Abu]

Yeah, agreed. Another big question that I think is going to be something for a future season is Sister Emmeline. And basically what's going to happen with this splinter cell within the sisterhood? How that schism within the Sisterhood will play out and play into Valia's plans and the larger schemes at play. How the other memories from Lila and potentially a returned Dorothea Abomination plays into all of that. I think we'll see some of these things come to a head in episode six, but we will not see them fully play out. And I think we will be left on some teases for the future. More questions than answers when it comes to this Sister Eveline schism within the sisterhood stuff.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I think, finally, Constantine, we now know that he's being deployed to Arrakis.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

To, like, resolve the Emperor's problems there. I am starting to think we're not going to see Arrakis at all. Like, despite the fact that Arrakis was kind of played earlier as this, like, kind of a big deal, kind of a location that people are interested in and are talking about, and that's where Desmond's from, I almost think we're just not going to go there at all. And in season two or something like that, Constantine is going to be. That's going to be his sort of plot arc is him going there and trying to solve that stuff. It feels like he's maybe out of the main running right now.

[Abu]

Yeah, agreed. Agreed. So maybe we will be getting our wish a little bit that less Constantine screen time to fill in the gaps with other things first and then maybe come back to him later. Yeah. So those are some larger questions that we're still asking, and I think we will still be asking even after the season finale next week. Okay, let's wrap up today's conversation with just a couple of lore Easter eggs in our minutiae segment that we wanted to hit on. We got it. We got a couple of references to lore, stuff that I think is worth unpacking.

[Leo]

Yeah. And the first one is the Omnius plague. So Tula and Rakella discover a similarity between what happened to Kasha, what killed Kasha, and a virus that she saw in the war from the Machine Wars. Because, again, Raquela was sort of like a medic in the Machine Wars. Now, the Omnius plague. We have to talk about Omnius. Omnius is a hive mind, leader of the machine factions, the thinking machine factions. And he had Erasmus, the evil loves experimenting on humans, robot, along with the Tleilaxu or the Tlulaxu, whatever, create a disease in the final stages of the Butlerian Jihad. So the Omnius plague was sort of a final gambit from the thinking machines ordered by Omnias, but done by Erasmus and the Tlu Laxu. Raquela and her associates discovered that spice melange slowed the virus. But before it ran its course, the plague wiped out half of humanity. Half of all. Humans died, apparently. Wild, insane. Now, later, a mutated strain of the virus appeared on Rossik. And in her neutralization of it, Rachela discovered the agony and other memory. So that is a little bit about the Omnius plague. Again, it is a machine or originated thing, but it is something that also maybe has legs and comes back. So we'll have to see if this is directly a result of machine tampering, or if this is a new agent active in the Empire.

[Abu]

Right. Like a wild strain left over from the original plague that has mutated, or if this is actually like a. Yeah.

[Leo]

Thinking machine plot, or the Tleilaxu or the Ixians, or there are people who might have said, hey, that was pretty good, and that's a good tool to use moving forward. Ambition of man, all of that.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, exactly. Okay, next bit of minutia. Holtzman shields. So, in the moments before that explosion at the club, the explosion that frankly should have killed Desmond Hart but didn't, he does activate what appears to be a Holtzman shield, a bottle body shield, before the explosion, and that presumably saves his life. Our questions about the efficacy of that aside, let's talk a little bit about the Holtzmann shields themselves. So the shields are created by a Holtzman generator. And this generator makes use of phase one of the suspensor nullification effect discovered by the genius inventor Holtzmann. Now, if none of that made sense to you, don't worry. It's like mostly just made up sci fi tech jargon within the Dune universe. The important thing to keep in mind in the gist is that shields protect you and can be calibrated to prevent objects traveling at certain speeds from penetrating from entering the shield. And we see that a number of times, both in the Villeneuve films. We saw it earlier on in this show as well, with Kieran Atreides in the training. And these shields can be used for a number of applications. Personal body shield, larger shields that protect entire buildings or entire spaceports. Like how Yui powered down the shields of Arrakeen so that the Harkonnens could attack the Atreides in the movie, that sort of thing. So lots of applications for these shields. Now, speaking of where they come from and their lore a little bit, there are two different versions of Lore that explains this. So let me try and condense and give you the TL Doctor of each. When it comes to Brian Herbert's canon and the prequel novels that he wrote. Shielding technology was employed shortly before the outbreak of the Butlerian Jihad. And it was primarily used to counteract machine circuitry. So machinery could not penetrate the shield, but a human could. Alas, the machines have these human machine hybrids called Psimechs during this war. And whoops, the Cymex can just walk right through that shield because they're human enough to penetrate. So the shield 1.0 not strong enough to defeat or prevent Psymex from entering. And so the genius Ixian inventor Teo Holtzman teams up with the enigmatic Norma Senva to basically develop and upgrade the machine technology into the shielding that we see in Dune Prophecy and in the Villeneuve films.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

They are upgraded to be more effective and to be able to stop any object moving at a certain speed from entering altogether. Now, the other version of lore for the shields comes from Frank and the Encyclopedia, which in my humble opinion, is like 100 times more interesting.

[Leo]

Totally. Yeah.

[Abu]

And if you want to get like the full tea on this, because it's truly, like, astound, I'm going to try and explain it here, but it's honestly going to make no sense. You need to listen to our full episode about Holtzman. Go back in the feed and find it. It is one of my favorites and it's incredible stuff. But to try and summarize it, in short, Holtzman is this, like, genius kid who was really into ornithopter racing as a young man, got into a nearly fatal accident, but instead of dying in an experimental surgery, his brain was then implanted into a machine. He became like, not even half machine, half human, just like, brain and mostly machine. This enhanced his analytical mind by like 30x or something. So he became even smarter, became a super genius.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And was basically able to escape the hospital through hijinx, get onto a spaceship and started just flying around the galaxy. He basically lives, quote unquote, on this ship as a brain in a box for the next 7,000 years. Just circumnavigating the galaxy. And every time he circles back toward the Imperium, he drops something new he invented in his boredom and in his genius. Things like, for example, galactic imessage. The ability to even just send messages back and forth across such long distances. He also invents suspensors. We see the Baron floating on them in the films. And of course, he also invents the shields. That honestly, is like the lamest, most boring explanation of this incredible man's life. So please, again, just go listen to our Holtzman episode, the Dune Universe. And frankly, us as Dune readers owe so much to this very weird, very paranoid, mad genius brain plugged into a box, stuck in a ship floating around the Galaxy for 7,000 years. It's truly incredible.

[Leo]

Yeah, his. His life is awesome. The fact that he was like an ornithopter racer is, like, sold. How fucking cool is that? Well, our final minutiae today is message crystals. In this episode, Constantine tells Francesca b B B quote, I didn't send a crystal. End quote, a throwaway line. And as far as I can tell, it can indicate two types of technologies. Now in Brian's books, they have messaging crystals. And in fact, Falia sends one to Griffin in Sisterhood of Dune, and it's described, quote, a small old style memory crystal of a type used only by antique hologram readers, a model that Valya knew her brother had in his possession. The device was old, something Abelard Harkonnen had brought to Lankaveil in his initial exile. End quote, akin to like, hey, I sent you a vinyl with my. With my thoughts written on it. You're, like, sick. What a vintage. Cool way to send this to me. But again, it's not really explored. It's not really explained. It's fine. Now, in Frank Lore, crystals aren't used for anything until God, Emperor of dune. Until the fourth book where Leto 2 introduces us to redoubian crystal paper, which is a means of writing extremely dense information in a super portable way. And I mostly wanted to write this minutiae because I think Radulian crystal is so cool.

[Abu]

Yeah, truly.

[Leo]

So, talking about the Dune encyclopedia entry on it, basically the Ixian scientist who invented the material was attempting to create a physical barrier that would withstand lase guns. He was like, all right, Holtzman shields don't do shit against lace guns. What if we just had like, a really hard crystal that would, like, refract the light or, like, change whatever, like, would protect you against lace guns? And he successfully made the material, but it didn't work. It didn't work against lase guns. After like a couple of seconds, it would break and it would be useless. But instead of giving up on the technology altogether, he had a task given to him. How thin, light, and portable can you make it? And so he was able to get Ridoulian crystal down to sheets that were several molecules thick.

[Abu]

Oh my God.

[Leo]

Which is crazy. And still very, very, very rigid and hard and can last a long time. And that ended up being the basis of Leto's journals, which end up being a huge part of of the later parts of the Dune universe. But again, Ridulian crystal, one of the possible types of crystals that we're talking about here. Or maybe this is like a proto Ridulian crystal or something like that. Nevertheless, messaging crystals wanted to talk about that for a second. Guess they're being used for communicating. And I suspect that's the sort of thing that we saw Valya talking into earlier that she ends up breaking when she decided not to message Tula.

[Abu]

That's right. Okay, folks, what an episode. It's the penultimate. We have so much to talk about here. Thank you for hanging out with us today. Thank you for checking out this episode and we hope you'll continue to join us in future conversations. For now, Leo, let's wrap it up and say goodbye.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Before we go though, a couple of lightning quick reminders for our listeners.

[Leo]

Yeah, absolutely. Now, the first is the best way to support us, which is to become a patron [e-mail] gom jabbar or hey, get yourself some Dune themed swag from our merch store. Those links are in our show notes. We also have a buy me a coffee link if you want to show your support via a one time financial donation.

[Abu]

That's right, don't. And of course we love to hear from you. My goodness, folks, the show is almost over and I'm honestly quite sad because I've been having such a blast geeking out with our community about this. Email usmjobarpodcastmail.com Send us your thoughts, your predictions for what the final episode might hold and what you want to see not only in this season, but in future seasons of the show. ComJobarPodcast.com is the best place to reach out and say hello.

[Leo]

Indeed. And I think it's at that point that I then, oh no, I've been being dossier this whole time. Oh no. Turns out Leo died in episode two and you had no prophet.

[Abu]

The 4.5Dx viewing experience, they break someone in everyone's life. Who's watching? Will turn is a face dancer.

[Leo]

Oh my God. They broke the fourth wall by murdering my wife and replacing her with a face dancer.

[Abu]

It's so. This is television, baby.

[Leo]

Well played. I mean, that's all right. Well, friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muadib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And be sure to check out the other shows on the Lore Party podcast network on LordParty.com you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Lore Underscore Party. You can also watch video versions of select episodes on the Lore Party YouTube channel. Thank you so much much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the golden path.