Live Q&A: Dune Prophecy Episode 1 (with Quinn's Ideas)

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast - Live Q&A: Dune Prophecy Episode 1 (with Quinn's Ideas) Summary

Release Date: November 22, 2024

Hosts: Abu and Leo
Guest: Quinn
Podcast Description: Gom Jabbar serves as the ultimate guide to the Dune universe, catering to both long-time enthusiasts and newcomers. Hosted by Abu and Leo, the podcast delves deep into every facet of Dune lore, spanning Frank Herbert's seminal novels to recent HBO series and Denis Villeneuve's blockbuster films. New episodes are released every other Friday.

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1. Introduction and Live Kickoff (00:00 - 01:53)

The episode begins with Abu and Leo warmly welcoming Quinn to the live Q&A session. Abu introduces the podcast to new listeners, explaining their focus on exploring the intricate themes, philosophies, and characters of the Dune universe. They emphasize the interactive nature of the live stream, encouraging audience participation through YouTube chat and providing information on how to join future live recordings.

Notable Quote:
Abu (00:29): "Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies, and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe."

2. Initial Impressions of "Dune Prophecy Episode 1" (01:53 - 06:17)

The hosts and Quinn discuss their initial reactions to "Dune Prophecy Episode 1." Quinn remains cautiously optimistic, noting that while the episode is a decent start, its future success hinges on whether it can satisfy both longtime fans and newcomers without falling short of expectations.

Notable Quotes:
Quinn (02:12): "This could either be like a really entertaining show that satisfies both audiences... or it could just fizzle out."
Leo (02:00): "I am curious for you too."

Abu echoes Quinn's sentiments, sharing that they've extensively discussed the episode across various platforms, from their own podcast deep dives to interactions on Reddit and Twitter.

3. Deepening Appreciation for the Show (06:17 - 10:25)

Leo shares that after speaking with the show's executive producer and showrunner Allison Schapker, their appreciation for the series has grown. He highlights the show's commitment to fans by integrating deep lore references and creating authentic Dune experiences, despite minor critiques like the generic club scene and pervasive soundtrack.

Notable Quotes:
Leo (04:09): "It feels more like they are creating this thing as fans of Dune and doing their best."
Quinn (05:47): "It’s people that care about what they were making."

Quinn adds optimism, appreciating the evident care in the show's production, which suggests a successful adaptation rather than a haphazard production aiming merely for profit.

4. Audience Q&A and In-Depth Discussions (10:25 - 35:42)

a. Action-Packed Climax and Season Predictions (06:17 - 11:57)

Philip from the chat inquires whether viewers should anticipate an action-packed climax by the end of Season One. The hosts discuss the possibility of political intrigue and character-driven conflict over overt action, predicting that the season will likely focus on the Valia versus Desmond arc without relying heavily on CGI-heavy battle scenes.

Notable Quotes:
Abu (07:57): "We're gonna see a lot of politicking and a lot of backstabbing."
Quinn (09:32): "There’s going to be some action, but it’s not the focus."

b. Differences Between Frank Herbert and Brian Herbert’s "Butlerian Jihad" (12:31 - 19:23)

A question from Siege of Sci Fi addresses the differences between Frank Herbert’s and Brian Herbert's interpretations of the Butlerian Jihad. Quinn explains that Frank Herbert focused on stagnation and complacency enabled by technology, whereas Brian Herbert’s version emphasizes malevolent, intelligent machines.

Notable Quotes:
Quinn (12:31): "In the Frank Herbert... it was about stagnation, complacency, over-reliance on technology."
Leo (13:54): "The threat was never the machines. It was the stagnation and the complacency that the machines enabled."

c. Visuals and Ecology in "Salusa Secundus" (16:38 - 22:08)

Reddit user Heavy Beef Juice asks why Salusa Secundus appears visually appealing in "Dune Prophecy." Quinn responds by discussing the planet's ecological degradation, aligning with Dune's recurring theme that human activity can either ruin or rejuvenate a planet.

Notable Quotes:
Quinn (17:09): "Dune has always had this ecological messaging... if you treat it bad, it'll be like Arrakis or Salusa Secundus."

d. Floating Lamps and Thinking Machines (19:44 - 23:45)

User snoo9488 questions why floating lamps aren't considered thinking machines within the Dune universe. Quinn highlights the ambiguity in Frank Herbert's descriptions, while Leo refers to the Dune Encyclopedia's explanation that glow globes are biologically based, involving microorganisms, thus differentiating them from sentient machines.

Notable Quotes:
Quinn (19:44): "I can't have a definitive definition as to why isn't it considered a thinking machine."
Leo (20:08): "They’re using rudimentary electronics... biological nature, so they're not considered thinking machines."

5. Further Audience Engagement and Theories (23:45 - 36:18)

a. Jihad and Technological Themes (27:27 - 38:50)

The discussion shifts to the potential portrayal of the Butlerian Jihad in adaptations. Abu elaborates on what Frank Herbert envisioned, emphasizing a nuanced conflict rooted in human decisions rather than a straightforward robot uprising. The hosts debate how modern themes like AI and technological ethics could be effectively integrated into such an adaptation.

Notable Quotes:
Abu (41:49): "We need an inciting incident... like an AI deciding a baby shouldn’t be born."
Quinn (43:17): "Humanity deciding we need to purge for X, Y, and Z reason."

b. Casting and Character Visualization (36:18 - 52:35)

Leo, Abu, and Quinn engage in a light-hearted discussion about casting choices for iconic characters like Duncan Idaho, debating the suitability of actors like Jason Momoa. They also touch upon the challenges of visualizing characters from books, sharing personal insights on how they perceive literary characters.

Notable Quotes:
Abu (60:00): "Duncan Idaho at home."
Quinn (63:05): "He's fine, but he's never like my Duncan Idaho."

6. Speculations on Future Episodes and Plotlines (52:35 - 58:57)

The conversation turns to potential future storylines within "Dune Prophecy," including the possibility of integrating characters like Timothy Chalamet's Paul Atreides and exploring the intricate politics of the Landsraad. Abu suggests an origin story for the Spacing Guild, highlighting its rich potential for deep, character-driven narratives.

Notable Quotes:
Abu (57:12): "Interstellar time dilation, space stuff smashed together."
Leo (58:57): "Norma as realizing void space can be used and having the idea that spice will get her there."

7. Conclusion and Closing Remarks (58:57 - End)

As the live Q&A wraps up, Abu and Leo thank Quinn for his invaluable insights and engage in final interactions with the audience, addressing last-minute comments and questions. They encourage listeners to support the podcast through Patreon and merchandise purchases, mentioning upcoming episodes and community engagement options.

Notable Quotes:
Abu (68:03): "Quinn, thank you once again for joining us."
Leo (69:44): "The mind of man is holy."

The episode concludes with Abu and Leo humorously attempting their signature closing remarks, leaving listeners anticipating the next live session.

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Key Takeaways:

• Balanced Reception: The hosts and guest maintain a cautiously optimistic view of "Dune Prophecy Episode 1," appreciating its potential while acknowledging uncertainties regarding its long-term success.

• Deep Lore Integration: The podcast emphasizes the show's commitment to integrating deep Dune lore, catering to both hardcore fans and newcomers.

• Ecological and Technological Themes: Discussions highlight Dune's recurring themes of ecological stewardship and the ethical implications of technological reliance.

• Audience Engagement: The live Q&A format fosters active participation, allowing for diverse questions that enrich the conversation and provide multiple perspectives on the show's elements.

• Future Speculations: Hosts and guests speculate on possible future directions of the show, from political intrigue to character-driven storylines, demonstrating a thorough understanding of the Dune universe.

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key points, discussions, and insights shared during the live Q&A episode, providing a rich overview for both existing fans and those new to the Gom Jabbar podcast.

Transcript

[Leo]

All right, all right. Oh, my gosh.

[Abu]

Oh, my God. We're here. We're live, folks.

[Leo]

We are, Yep.

[Abu]

Quinn, thank you so much for joining us.

[Quinn]

Yeah, no problem. It's going to be awesome.

[Abu]

If you're in the chat, say hello. Tell Quinn how much you love him.

[Quinn]

Hello, chat. How's everybody? How's it going?

[Abu]

Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe, from Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name is Abu.

[Leo]

My name is Leo.

[Quinn]

And folks, I'm Quinn.

[Abu]

Yes, we're joined by Quinn again. Quinn, we've seen so much of you this week and frankly, it's not enough. On today's but bonus live episode, Leo, Quinn and I are going to be answering your Dune prophecy questions, specifically about Dune Prophecy episode one, which is the one that's out right now. And we have a couple of questions we've already selected that we scoured the Internet for that we're going to try and touch on. But of course we're going to be interacting with the live chat here on YouTube. So if you have questions or thoughts, make sure you drop them in the chat so that we can call them out and address them. A super quick reminder before we jump in that you can also participate. If you're listening or watching this live stream after the fact, you can participate in these live recordings every Thursday at 11am Eastern. Sorry to our west coast folks. I know that's a early morning. Hope you're a morning person. We'll be live on the Lore Party YouTube channel. And if you're wondering where all of that stuff is, don't worry, check the description below. Links will be there for you.

[Leo]

Indeed they will. All right, let's talk about prophecy.

[Abu]

Let's do it.

[Quinn]

Do prophecy.

[Leo]

I am curious for you too. We've now had a few days to sit with the episode. We've had some time to sit with the episode. Have your feelings about the episode changed dramatically in the last, like, week or so?

[Quinn]

Not for me. I feel like basically feel the same way where I thought it was like a decent start, but, like, it could go either way. I mean, this could either be like a really entertaining show that satis. Satisfies like, both audiences. You know, it grabs like the normal people that don't really know about Dune and it grabs like the Dune fans and it grabs the people that are kind of in between and it does enough things to satisfy all of them to the point where it's a successful show and it's viewed as good. Or it could just be, like, a flop. It could just be, like. It could. It could fizzle out. And I can't tell by the first episode if it's going to continue being, like, great and build upon, like, the good things in the first episode, or if it's just going to become, like, one of those many, many shows that, like, has a decent premise but then just kind of, like, fall short of, like, ultimately what was expected. It just won't give what needed to be given to the highest degree of giving.

[Leo]

Yeah, absolutely. What about you, Abu?

[Abu]

I agree. My feelings have not changed a whole lot. In fact, we've had a ton of conversations. You know, Quinn, we were on your stream for, like, three hours the other night talking about it with so much fun. It was such a great time. I was geeking out about it.

[Leo]

And Nerd cookies.

[Abu]

And Nerd cookies as well. Yeah, it was such a good group. Yeah, we talked so much about it. Obviously, Quinn, you came on our podcast episode from this week, our Deep Dive Breakdown. We talked about it there. I've been doing nothing but, like, scouring Reddit and Twitter for hot takes and thoughts. I talked about it at work. Like, I also podcast at work. And so we covered Dune at work, and I just talked about it with coworkers on an episode there. So I literally, every single day, I have done nothing but talk about Dune prophecy. But I don't think my feelings have changed all that much. What I said in our podcast episode and then again on your stream, Quinn, I think I still feel the same. How about you, Leah? Any changes in your emotions?

[Leo]

You know, I think we've all kind of picked up on some of the deep lore cuts, like the deep cut references that they had in the first episode. And Abu, you and I got to talk with the executive producer and showrunner yesterday, and from talking with them, I feel like I like it a lot more now. And I think I already liked it. I was already very on board. I'm realizing I'm pretty easy. Like, it's just, like. It's fun. The characters are good. There's good stuff happening. There's little moments, of course, that I still don't love. I rewatched the first episode a couple times and, like, yeah, the club scene does feel generic. I still feel that. I still feel like the soundtrack is too present, but it feels less like. Especially after our conversation yesterday, it feels less like they just Opened the book and like gram grabbed random words and then tried to like slap those into a generic script. And it feels more like they are creating this thing as fans of Dune and doing their best, and that can hit or miss. To your point, Quinn, we don't know what the satisfyingness of the six episode arc is. It is from the perspective of like deep sci fi content creators. It is really hard to make good content that is engaging for people who've loved this stuff for 35 years. And also people who just like, think Timothy Chalamet's hot and heard that there are worms and are like, cool. Like now we're talking about mommies, like, sign me up. That's a very different type of.

[Abu]

To be clear, that's also me. It's also both categories, right?

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Quinn]

You know, I could tell from the first episode that they cared about what they were making. So I feel like that says a lot because, you know, a lot of stuff gets made today and to varying degrees of caring. And I feel like this isn't something that's made haphazardly. It doesn't feel like it's something that was just like slapped together and they're saying just like, put the new name on this and. And we'll make a bunch of money. It does seem like it's people that care about what they're creating. So that's why I have optimism for this show.

[Abu]

Yeah, definitely. Okay, we have a great question from Philip in the chat that I want to throw up on screen here because I think it opens up an interesting conversation. Whoops, wrong question. Throw. Let me the other one. I'll get to you next, Tomas. Philip says should we expect an action packed climax towards the end of season one? I haven't read Sisterhood of Dune, so I have no idea what happens. And again, he's referencing Sisterhood of Dune, the Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson prequel novel that this show is very loosely based on.

[Quinn]

Sisterhood of dude is not going to help you.

[Leo]

That's.

[Quinn]

That's like a climactic scene. It seems like it from the trailer. There's going to be some kind of climactic thing that's happening. I mean, I saw the little. I want to know what Value is doing. Like when she's slicing throats, you know, she's like slicing the guy's throats. Like, that looks cool. And it looks like Desmond is building soldiers and they're gathering up for some conflict just based on the trailer. So I don't know, it seems like.

[Leo]

Probably, yeah, that's also been a conversation I've been having all week of people going, should I read Sisterhood of Dune? Is that going to help? And luckily, no, you don't have to, because, like, that first 30 year forward thing basically leaves a lot of it behind. I am seeing for sure some, like, common threads between the book and this, and maybe we can use those. But even Sisterhood of Dune doesn't have a climactic ending. It's sort of a midway point in the school's trilogy. So what do we think is going to happen at the end of the. Like, what do we think if there is a climax, like a big climax, predictably? We don't know any better than. Than other folks. What do we think is going to happen at the end?

[Abu]

I think what we're seeing play out over these six episodes is a Valia versus Desmond story. And that to me is especially clear because, again, Leo, you and I interviewed the showrunner yesterday, and Allison Schapker, the showrunner, she very much was like our through line, our sort of core mission with this first season of the show was to tell Valia Harkonnen's story. And so I think we're gonna see Desmond be sort of our antagonist, our sort of foil character, and Valia and Desmond are gonna butt heads. And then I suspect Desmond is going to die by the end of the season. Are we gonna get some action packed, like, Marvel Act 3, CGI heavy fight scene? I don't think so.

[Leo]

On your left, Valia comes through a portal.

[Abu]

Exactly. Right, right. I don't think that's going to happen, but I suspect we're going to get a lot of politicking and a lot of backstabbing. And my prediction, having not seen any future episodes, is that Desmond will die by the end of this season. This is the Valia vs Desmond arc.

[Quinn]

I think they'll. I don't know about a battle climax, but I think they'll at least be like one or two, like, militaristic style, like, battle sequences, because they're like, talking about the Fremen and, you know, the Riichi soldiers and the Emperor's problems on Arrakis. So there's going to be some action. But yeah, like you said, it's not going to be the focus. It's not going to be like a. It's not going to be the big moment that everything is leading up to.

[Abu]

Right.

[Quinn]

You know.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And as far as the books go, we talked about this on your stream, Quinn. You don't really have to Read Sisterhood to understand this show. Like as far as like quote unquote. What homework do I have to do before I watch Dune Prophecy? Just watch the Villeneuve films and read Dune by Frank Herbert, I think.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

And you know, if you really want to go deep, like read all six of Frank's books because they Heretics and Chapter House really get into the inner workings of the sisterhood. And prophecy is very focused on the inner workings of the sisterhood. Yeah.

[Quinn]

I feel like with this show that they didn't want you to have to read the Brian Herbert stuff. That's why I feel like, I mean, it's in there, but they're kind of divorcing themselves from it in a way.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

So that's interesting.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

They want people that just watch the movies to be able to go into this and know exactly what's going on. Well, maybe not exactly, but to be able to understand it.

[Leo]

Yeah, absolutely. I. I agree too. I don't think there's going to be some giant battle, like, climax. It's funny though, because Quinn, you're right. There's that sequence in the trailer of Valia like slitting throats as she just like walks through and it's like, God damn, like she. She actually gets into some action and that'll be very interesting. Maybe we'll see the inception of weirding combat. Maybe we're gonna see some like cool Bene Gesserit. Yeah. Battle prowess. There's also that, that scene, that flickering scene in the trailer of. I think it's Kieran and maybe Inez doing some like back to back sword fighting against some people. Like maybe. Yeah, it's that there's. There's probably going to be some good action set pieces coming up. But it does kind of feel like if there is. We've talked a lot about like whether Desmond's powers are psychic or technologically based. I feel like if this series is telling the story of Valia vs Desmond, the final climactic scene is going to be Valia disarming whatever Desmond is and does and winning outright or winning, but at what cost? And then being on the wrong side of history or something like that. But it does feel like Desmond's gonna die and his death is going to be driven by some maybe deeper reveal about him and her mastery of the situation and Bene gesserit supremacy. Because 10,000 years later, guess who's around. Oh, the Bene Gesserit. Guess who's not around. Whoever the Desmond Hart is.

[Abu]

Right, Exactly. Okay, shall we talk about Larry And Jihad. This was a through line I saw many times online. And I wanted to throw up this question from the Twitter account, the Siege of Sci Fi. They asked, what are the precise differences between Frank Herbert and Brian Herbert's, but Larry and Jihad. And I saw this pop up quite a bit online because I think people who have maybe only ever read the Frank books or only ever watched the Villeneuve movies are coming into prophecy a little confused, especially by that flashback prologue scene where we saw robots fighting.

[Leo]

Yeah, one of the first shots of the show.

[Abu]

So which one of y'all wants to try and tackle this sort of Dune Lore 101 question here for folks who might be wondering?

[Quinn]

I don't know, precise is a weird word, because in the Frank Herbert, I guess, Dune books, it's not really something that you see unfold. It's only something that's referenced as, like, this historical event, like, a long time ago. And it wasn't, like, necessarily like a machine uprising, like, you think Terminator. Like, the machines got really intelligent and thought like, oh, we could do better than mankind. And so, like, we're now enslaved by the machines, or like a Matrix situation. It wasn't more like that. Like the Reverend Mother in the beginning of Dune says, once we gave ourselves over to machines in the hope that this would set us free, but that only permitted other men with machines to enslave us. So I think this will. The. The idea is this is a reference to mankind at one point being under, like, technocratic rule and men in power of machines using those machines to manipulate and enslave like everybody else. So it's the men in power of the machines that's the actual threat and not the machines themselves. But in the Brian Herbert universe, you. You kind of shift the focus to the kind of malicious, malevolent, intelligent machines. So I think that's the key distinction.

[Abu]

Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I would add in that the. The other angle of it and the thing that, like, Leito 2 talks a lot about, is that the threat was never the machines. It was the stagnation and the complacency that the machines enabled. People lost their humanity. They. They allowed pieces of, like, human life to be taken over by automation and machine protocols. And we lost that thing, and that's why it was so important that we reclaimed it. But again, the. The. The sort of broad critique of Brian's world building is that if it were literal humans enslaved by Erasmus, who's, like, torturing them and whatever, Plato would have had some Stronger words to say about it than like, it was fine. It's like, okay, so it's clear that, like, I'm pretty confident that Frank had this idea of like, it's stagnation, it's complacency, it's over reliance on technology without. And losing sight of maybe like the point of living, which is love and humanity.

[Quinn]

And that, that's definitely a necessary point to add because in God, Emperor of Dune, he kind of like recreates that, but without machines. So he like forces humans to live under stagnation and no change for thousands of years.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

And it creates this kind of sense of anxiety and restlessness within, I guess, like the human mega consciousness.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Quinn]

So, yeah, exactly.

[Abu]

Yeah. Tomas has a comment here I want to throw up. On screen he says, I'm not familiar with the Brian Herbert books, but from the show it seems like this jihad is pretty much big robot goes boom, boom.

[Leo]

That's. That's accurate. Yeah. And it's really, you know, when you read the, when you read any of Brian's books, it really is just like evil robots who also are like, I'm evil and a robot and I have no emotions. He said angrily or sadly or. And I'm like, you hate humans. Do you have emotions or do you not? Or like, it's super inconsistent and they're basically just the worst. Just the most 2D cut out villainous characters. Like Erasmus kind of goes through a finding humanity arc kind of, but it's not good satisfying.

[Quinn]

I'm laughing because I just remembered super Ultra Spice. Ultra Spice.

[Leo]

Oh my God. Also, like the ocean. Weren't there ocean worms? Like ocean sandworms?

[Quinn]

Ocean of bustle? Yeah, there's they. They create these ocean sand worms and they, they have Ultra Spice inside of them, but you can't take it because it's poison. No one can survive it.

[Leo]

It's a commentary on how weed has gotten strong over the last 40 years.

[Abu]

Incredible. Okay, let's switch gears again. I want to throw up another question that I found online quite a bit and a lot of my coworkers were asking me about Salusa Secundus specifically. So I can't believe I have to say this out loud, but Reddit user Heavy Beef Juice asked on Reddit this week, why does Seleucus secundus look so nice in Dune prophecy?

[Quinn]

It's a simple question. I mean, it's a simple answer to. I mean, I talked about this in my review, but basically it was destroyed. I mean, Dune has always had this ecological messaging where it's like we can change planets through human activity if we abuse them, if you treat them well, it'll flourish and be beautiful and green when if you treat it bad, it'll be Arrakis or Seleucus second. So basically that's just what happened to solutions, kindness over time. It was a planet that was abused and by the time of Paul Atreides, it's a prison planet that's kind of equivalent to Arrakis in the fact that it's really hard to survive there. It's got really like, difficult to traverse terrain and they train their soldiers there on their prison planet.

[Leo]

So now I'm, I'm still working my way through some of Brian's books for the first time. Quinn, do you remember in Brian's lore when and how Solusa gets ruined and like, then when do the Sardau car get started up?

[Quinn]

I don't remember. Does it mention that specifically?

[Leo]

I, I have to imagine it does. He's written so many goddamn books.

[Quinn]

Yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't know.

[Leo]

I, I don't know either. I know.

[Abu]

Let us know.

[Leo]

Yeah, I know. In the Dune Encyclopedia they talk about. It's like the Sardaukar kind of came out of these tribes, these like varied tribes that live in this incredibly harsh planet that is only beaten out in harshness by a little known planet called Arrakis. But I, yeah, I don't, I don't think Frank ever really talked that much about what Solusa was in the far history. But just like Arrakis was once a watery, lush, beautiful planet in prime canon, it also makes sense that harsh planets, to your point, Quinn, can be ruined. And when we see Getty prime for the first time in Dune, we see it in the act of being ruined by House Harkonnen, who's just, you know, industrial, very, very heavy industrial stuff. So it is a quiet tip of the hat to ecology and how important it is to protect our ecosystem.

[Abu]

Yep, sweet.

[Leo]

It also looks so good. My God, it looks nice. It looks so good.

[Abu]

The visuals are stunning.

[Leo]

Every establishing shot of Salusa Secundus, I'm like, yeah, sign me up. That's where I want to live.

[Abu]

Right?

[Leo]

It's great.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

As opposed to Wallach 9, which is very grim, dark, Right?

[Abu]

Right. Yeah, very gray. Okay, I got another question for y'all from Reddit. This is from user snoo9488 new asks. Why aren't the floating lamps considered thinking machines?

[Quinn]

Glow globes?

[Abu]

That was my one.

[Quinn]

I don't know. I mean, why isn't a lot of stuff considered thinking machines? You know, Frank Herbert vague on describing how technology works and that. Because it's not the point. You know what I mean? So, I mean, it is what it is. I don't know. We don't know how it works. So I can't really, like. I don't have a, like, definitive definition as to, like, why isn't it considered a thinking machine? I don't know.

[Leo]

I'll say. I'll say. For, you know, fans of the. Anybody who wants to go find the PDF of the Dune Encyclopedia, they have this, like, very contrived and, like, complicated paragraph that explains how glow globes can be programmed to, like, follow you around. But they're using rudimentary, like, on off switches and, like, light sensors and, like, simple mechanics. So there's no computer, there's no, like, onboard. You know, you're not going, hey, Siri, turn on the glow globe at 10:00am you know, there's no command like that. It's just like, rudimentary electronics. I think, in Frank's universe. To your point, Quinn, it's not really the point. What is and is not a machine. What is more important is if it's resting away human like agency.

[Quinn]

Yes.

[Leo]

And lamps are not. How dare you take the job of that fire holder. You know, so generally it's fine in Frank's universe. Brian's universe is more the one. And it's a totally reasonable question because, you know, you have this, like, robo gecko in episode one. Everyone freaks out and goes, oh, my God. Meanwhile, there's, like, flying cars and, like, flooding lamps and shit. It's like, yeah.

[Abu]

I mean, I had Transformers as a kid. They didn't transform on their own. I had to move pieces around. But that doesn't seem that deadly. But everyone freaked out about it.

[Leo]

Are you counting Furby as a transformer about the robot?

[Quinn]

Isn't it, like, don't counterfeit the human mind and thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind. How is the robot echo in the likeness of human mind?

[Leo]

I don't know. I think it just. It seems like the kind of thing's got too many moving parts and they're like, ew, moving parts. Gross.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah. And we have some great comments here about the glow globes. People really digging into the lore, specifically the Dune Encyclopedia lore SA Sphinx says, aren't they living organisms that create the glow within? Yeah. According to the Dune Encyclopedia, the glow globes are lit by, like, Microorganisms.

[Quinn]

I didn't ekos that.

[Leo]

Microorganisms from ecos.

[Abu]

Yeah. So they're biological in nature, so thus they wouldn't be considered a thinking machine that has a mind of its own. Ben. Ben also goes into greater detail. He says, I believe the glow is from the organisms, but they move. And tracking Suspense, it's suspensor tech that tracks and moves around. So, like, local Bluetooth is maybe fine. You know, like, Bluetooth is kosher for. But larians. But as soon as you get.

[Leo]

Get into second, you try to airdrop, they're like, no, no, no. Yeah, the. The floating thing is a. Is a good point. We didn't mention that they're Holtzman Suspenser fields, so that's just like. Yeah, it's just kind of par for the course. Understood mechanics, so.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Quinn]

I like the Radulian crystals. Yeah. It's like he's just like, thinking and it's like writing it.

[Leo]

That's so the.

[Quinn]

I was like, I want that.

[Leo]

Oh, what's it called?

[Quinn]

Dictator.

[Leo]

Yeah. Oh, good go.

[Quinn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Leo]

I keep looking at, you know, I was looking at. I've kept pausing the first episode of Prophecy and, like, looking at the set dressing and wondering what the little, like, bits and bobbles are on all of the shelves. Like, I'm sure they don't have time to get into, like, movies. You have a whole prop department who. Their entire job is populating the world with little pieces. TV shows have that as well. But, like, the pace is so much faster. I'm like, some of it, though, has got to be rooted in. In lore. It'd be fun to talk to whoever made all the, like, set dressings and props for Prophecy.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, final thing I want to share here from the comments. Sphinx jumps in again and says, glow globes are just advanced clap on, clap off tech. And as someone who loved those commercials, hell yeah, I'd love a clap on, clap off, glow globe.

[Quinn]

So nostalgic.

[Abu]

Yeah, so nostalgic. Throwback to the 90s, folks. Okay, I have another question for y'all. This one's from Reddit that I found. This is from Reddit user Bakugo's gay friend, which Leo, you had commented before the stream. Isn't that just Deku?

[Leo]

Yeah, there's a couple of characters in My Hero who. Who are definitely seem coded.

[Abu]

Yeah. Kaminari maybe. You know, like, there's some. He's got a little gay friend circle on that show for sure. Okay. A little my hero academia tangent. Okay. The Question, though, is, so the Fremen interrupting spice production was a thing for thousands of years. Question mark.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So I think seemingly the inherent question is like, no one fucking figured this out for 10,000 years.

[Leo]

Yeah, I. I saw some of the, like, responses to that, and people are like, they're super elusive and stuff. But I think that dances around the fact that Brian and. And Frank had different ideas about the timeline.

[Quinn]

The timeline is. Is questionable. I mean. Yeah, it is, because I would really have to, like, go back and look again and like, dig in again. But I feel like in the Brian Herbert Dudens, I mean, that in the Frank Herbert doing encyclopedia timeline, that the Fremen had not been on Arrakis for 10,000 years. No, I don't think they'd been on. They had not.

[Abu]

No. The migration doesn't even start. I was double checking the timeline the other day. The Zensuni migration, the Zensuni people who are the precursors to the Fremen. That didn't even begin until, like, I think maybe 1500 years after where this show takes place.

[Leo]

That's what I thought.

[Quinn]

Yeah, that's what I thought because, yeah, it's so. It's way off. Like, so I don't know. This is what they're going with, though. So I don't know what to say. It's because, I mean, it's not their fault that Brian Herbert confused the timeline so much.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

And made it like this.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

So.

[Abu]

So the answer is yes. The Fremen have been interrupting spice on the same planet in the same way for thousands of years. And the Imperium can't figure it out.

[Leo]

Not to mention there are like multiple moments where people, you know, you have thumpers and footage of the sandworm attacking revealed in the first episode to the emperor. And I'm like, I mean, the Sand Worms are kind of legendary. Some people don't even believe they exist in. In like, Dune canon. Some like the idea of Thumpers and Fremen actually existing and working with the same. Another thing that's like completely, like, almost mythological. In Frank's book, Desert Power. Desert Power.

[Quinn]

Even in the Bill New movies, it's like, oh, the mysterious Fremen and their desert Power. And what do they do?

[Leo]

Yeah, I mean, we have footage of it from 10,000 years ago. So it's definitely a little. A little confusing and probably just a byproduct of the fact that Brian's. Because also in Brian's books, he keep. He calls them the Freeman. Like, you're gonna drop a letter and Smush them together over, you know.

[Abu]

Right. Precursor to Tleilaxu or just, like the Tulaxa or whatever. Yeah. Shifting.

[Quinn]

We need to change that.

[Abu]

Okay, we have some. We have another great question in the chat here from. Let me throw it up here from Tomas. Tomas says, how do you guys feel about the possibility of Desmond using magic to burn people at the end? Is it a real possibility? If so, is there a satisfactory way to make this fit in the Dune.

[Quinn]

Universe as far as, like, someone burning somebody alive with their mind? Yeah, we've never seen anything like that before.

[Leo]

Yeah, I've seen attempts, because this is very established in Brian's books of, like, the sorceresses of Rasik who can do all sorts of stuff like that. Like, they can fly and they can shoot psychic blasts. I've seen attempts to explain that with biology, that they are, like, gathering. They're learned. They. They've learned how to gather static electricity and then discharge it in a big thing. And it's like, yeah, okay, I guess.

[Abu]

But that's like a really midichlorian's answer to a thing that we all just were fine with being magic.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in. In Brian's universe, yeah, there are psychic powers, and we've talked about how, like, Desmond Hart could be, like, the son of a sorceress, and he is sorceress's blood, which means he's got extra powers.

[Quinn]

But let's hope they don't do that.

[Leo]

But there's. There's also the possibility of it being technological, which is. Which is, I think, probably more in line with the themes of the season. So we'll see.

[Quinn]

We should just ignore all that sorceress stuff. Yeah. Just pretend it doesn't exist.

[Leo]

Yeah, it really does.

[Quinn]

I like witches. I wrote a whole graphic novel about witches. Like, I watched eight seasons of Charmed. I watched the Sabrina Witch show on Netflix. Like, I like witches.

[Leo]

Yeah, but witches are cool.

[Quinn]

Not like this and not like this.

[Leo]

Also, again, it does complicate things when you have, like, there are all sorts of weird rationales that you have to start, including to make it make sense. With the original six series, Brian Herbert introduces the idea that Betty Jeserit can melt into shadows and become nearly invisible. And then we have multiple moments in the Dune series, Right. By Frank Herbert, where, golly, that power would have been convenient. And then they just don't have it because you've introduced new powers decades after the book was finished, you know, being written. It just doesn't always work out. I do like. So Ben commented That the Gecko fears about. The Gecko fears. This is just going back for a second because I think it's a good point, is that if this kid has a toy that advanced, who knows what else Riches is doing, Urbach Hazy is doing? And I think that's a good point. You know, people don't need to necessarily freak out about a kid's toy, but if a kid's toy is representative of the sorts of things they've got around, then for sure you're like, oh, let's take a step back and actually be really pissed off about this.

[Quinn]

So you guys have flying machines, so we're even.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah, true. Ben also has a great point here about Desmond's powers, which I think Quinn is in line with your theory. Desmond could just be a Goa or Tay Laxu slash Ixian creation, which would then explain his powers. That would be one way to make it work in the Dune universe.

[Quinn]

I've heard some people say thinking machine, too, but I don't know how that will work out.

[Leo]

Oh, I see.

[Abu]

Like, part robot or something.

[Quinn]

Yeah, like, he's. Yeah, like, he's in, like, rebuilt. Like, he's cyborg, like Claraby. And in Chowder house. I. I think it's Clara, his name.

[Leo]

Oh, oh, Clar V. Clairv. The bus driver.

[Abu]

Wow. A deep cut.

[Leo]

Oh, my favorite character. Oh, that's great. Oh, I can't wait to talk about Clarby. Claire is such a fun character. I. I did. I did have a thought the other day. What if. So we've talked about how, like, Timothy Shalamet might appear toward the end of the series. What if we also get. What if we get Vorian and Tradies? Oh, what if he rolls up? I think that would be really cool, knowing that he's this sort of immortal Atreides that's, like, out there in the. In this in space. But, like, I. I was thinking, like, oh, that could be a. That could be a kind of a cool reveal in, like, episode four. Right. Or something like that. Might also solve the Kieran Atreides is kind of boring problem.

[Abu]

Right.

[Quinn]

Maybe he'll become more interesting in the next episodes. Who knows?

[Leo]

Here's hoping.

[Abu]

Yeah, here's hoping. Actually, while we're on the topic of Richese and their technology, Luna had a comment. One of our patrons, Luna in Discord, had a comment. Luna was doing some ADHD Googling while watching the show, and apparently the little machine that Pruitt Richesi has is canon for House Richese, and so they are known to be Sort of towing this line of the Balerian prohibitions against thinking machines. And so yeah, that. That's pretty on brand for them, seemingly. Is that correct? As far as you guys know, when it comes to House Riches, yeah, Riches.

[Quinn]

Was totally like associated with technology, with thinking machines and like.

[Leo]

Yeah, absolutely, I think so. If. If memory associated with.

[Quinn]

To some degree. Right.

[Leo]

Memory serves. X was sort of a farming planet and Riches was the next door planet where it was all like scientists and technology and stuff. When the Butlerian Jihad got kicked off on Rachese or maybe from. From people from ICS or something, they took all of the smartest scientists from Richese and banished them to the farming planet on I, where they built up ICS to be the powerhouse that it is. Eventually looking it up. In the Dune Encyclopedia, Aurelius Venport is actually a descendant of Riches Richesian people, which is kind of interesting. He's the founder of the Spacing Guild. So another kind of interesting connection to House Richese because every time I see House R, I always think of Brian's stuff because Brian has so much about House Richese. But at the end of the day, Richese is a part of the Dune Encyclopedia and Frank's lore as well. It just kind of got left a little bit in the annals of history once ICS was established as the place where all of those smart people were banished. Yeah, but I haven't seen any mention yet of the Gecko. I'm only about halfway through the encyclopedia's mentions of House for Chase, as V4 Vertigo pointed out. Yeah, with a nice marinara sauce. So, yeah, I haven't actually.

[Abu]

While we're on the topic of riches, Ben had another observation here. Do you guys think that House Rachesi are the ones who stole the spice on Arrakis that Desmond Hart survived the attack from? Is there a bigger plot afoot?

[Quinn]

I think maybe. Or maybe. I don't know.

[Abu]

Makes sense.

[Leo]

That's like plans.

[Quinn]

Well, the Bene Gesserit noticed that like that he was.

[Leo]

He.

[Quinn]

He was asking for a wing and the Emperor's palace because he wanted to like, kind of like kind of insist more power over the lands are out from. So Lucia Secundus. So there's definitely a plot. And I don't. So that seems like it would follow that. Yeah, he had something to do with this thing so he can kind of force the Emperor's hand a little bit. Like, look how bad your problems on Arrakis are getting. Eat my help. Come on, let's do this marriage and let me live in your castle and.

[Leo]

Yeah, come on, just castle for a minute.

[Abu]

Yeah. I would love for there to be a greater plot of it. You know, I think that's very Dune. Plans within plans within plans. And I. I feel like Desmond is clearly not completely a lunatic. Like, if he says there is an insurgency, a rising insurgency within the Imperium and the Emperor needs to watch out. Yes. Like, primarily, I think he's talking Bene Gesserit because he has a vendetta against them. But I would hope that there is an insurgency of some sort. Right. Like, the great houses should just be, like, sitting on their hands doing nothing.

[Quinn]

That did strike me as true when he said that, because I watched that scene several times, and almost like, I was thinking, like, should the Emperor trust Desmond when he's saying this, or is he just. Just trying to make him more paranoid? And I think that Desmond was speaking to some degree of truth. And I would like to see more involvement with the Landsrad, because the Villeneuve movie, like, kind of. There's. You don't really see him at all.

[Leo]

Yeah, really.

[Quinn]

So I would like to see the lens rat more. So that'd be cool.

[Leo]

They're little.

[Abu]

That would be cool.

[Leo]

They're pixels in the sky. And you go, those are great houses from the Landsraad. And you're like, can we zoom in on them? No, just trust us. There's really big, impressive ships out there.

[Abu]

Right. I would love to see. I agree. I would love to see, like, a meeting of the Landsraad. Sort of like Star Wars Episode 3. Right. Like Padme Amidala in the big Senate meeting. Like, that sort of politicking would be, I think, really fun to see because it's core to the Dune universe.

[Leo]

That's true.

[Quinn]

Make everybody look really cool and unique because they're all in, like, different worlds and they should all have their different vibes. They all look the same. I'm gonna be mad.

[Abu]

Ye. Philip, I just wanted to. This is a bit of a side tangent. Philip in the chat says, leo, I love when you do the fade. Elvis voice. Please never stop doing it. Can you treat us, Leo?

[Leo]

Yeah. As he. As he famously says toward the end of the part two, he goes.

[Abu]

Stop thrusting those hips.

[Leo]

Fade Ralph. Thrusting into the sunset.

[Abu]

Yeah, hilarious. We have a comment from Spinks here as well. Spinks says, I just want to see the whales that have whale fur.

[Leo]

Hey, Spinks, I. And this is actually for Spanx right now. Sphinx type in chat. What do you think they're called if you had to go out on a Whim, like on a limb. What do you think the species of whales that have fur are called?

[Abu]

Yeah, I want chat. Don't Google it.

[Leo]

We're not going to say what it is until we see your comment.

[Quinn]

Okay, I think I know.

[Leo]

And I want you to remember that this is in a book written by Brian Herbert.

[Abu]

Yeah, we're talking about like in the. In the books, what it's called in.

[Leo]

The books, what it's called.

[Quinn]

Yeah, okay.

[Abu]

Also, Ben responded to Spinks here. Ben says we will see them in the next episode or two. There's a season teaser after the first episode on Max that has a shot of a very large and furry whale shaped tail. Okay, that's fine. All right, Sphinx, we are. We are waiting, awaiting your answer with bated breath. In the meantime, we have a. I think we have another question here. This one is from Uncomfortable Crocs, which is exactly how I think of Crocs. Do you think the Gom Jabbar is going to be related to the burning tech power thingy?

[Quinn]

I think people are saying this because it looks visually similar, the vision of the hand burning to like what Paul Atreides sees in the David lynch movie and what Paul Trading sees in the Villeneuve movie, they always show the hand burning. But in the Vilna movie she says pain by nerve induction, which there's no, there's nothing being harmed. He's not actually being burned. It's just stimulating the nerves and just making pain.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

So.

[Leo]

And there's no visual look after effect of it. So while I think it's. It there's they're connected in like imagery. I think the reality of the Lore tech, it's unrelated probably.

[Quinn]

Yeah, I agree.

[Leo]

Although I do like now that we know that those two kind of spire like towers at the Bene Gesserit school on Wallach 9. Now that we know that that's the school at Wallach 9, I'm like, they do look like two gom jabbar needles, which is very cool. And I'm gonna take as us being in the show twice every time we see that building.

[Abu]

All right, Ben's got an interesting theory here about Raquela's visions from the start of episode one. This is a bit long, so bear with me here. Ben says, I didn't really notice this in the first watch, but after a second watch, I think that Mother Raquel's vision is about a tyrant bringing about a reckoning. Oh, Raquela. Sorry, excuse me. Raquela's vision is about a tyrant bringing about A reckoning is directly about. About Mother Valia. He continues. They say Valia says she wants blind obedience and is taking pieces off the board willy nilly. And then she sees the literal, literal burning truth. So is Raquela's warning about Valia.

[Leo]

Wow.

[Quinn]

Such a bait and switch.

[Leo]

I did just Google and yeah, Emily has some blue. Some baby blues, has some blue eyes that could be burning there in the darkness. Okay, Spinks, you've commented. I'll just tell you. They're called fur whales. So the whales with fur, they're called fur whales. You're welcome. They really dug deep for that. For that species.

[Abu]

Really dug deep.

[Leo]

They really. Yeah.

[Abu]

And another fun fact I just came across yesterday doing some research considering the kind of names that Brian Herbert comes up with for things. There is a Jihad police in the books. Oh, and they are shortened to Jaipole J I P O L like Jihad police.

[Quinn]

So creative killing me.

[Leo]

Ferris Whelius.

[Abu]

Ferris Whaleus is not far off.

[Leo]

That's better. Honestly, that's better.

[Quinn]

Kevin J. Anderson too. You know, I'll never forget that Kevin J. Anderson wrote a sequel to A Christmas Carol called the Ghost of Christmas Always.

[Leo]

What?

[Quinn]

Yes. Yes. I was like just looking up his books on Amazon and I'm like, the Ghost of Christmas Always. It's a literal sequel to A Christmas Carol. That's.

[Leo]

Yeah, the sequel we never knew we still don't want.

[Abu]

In Canada. Okay, I found a. Sorry, folks that were bouncing around. I'm kind of like just finding these questions and responding to stuff in real time here. Going back to the jihad, I found an interesting question that I think could lead to some fun answers from us on Reddit. User sufficient current 50 asks, what would Frank Herbert's Butlerian Jihad look like if we were to get an adaptation on screen of Frank's Jihad? How does it. How do you think it would play out?

[Quinn]

It would be titled 2024. I'm kidding. I mean, kind of maybe. I'm not kidding. Yeah.

[Leo]

I. I want to say that I think it would happen in courts and I would think it would happen in the Landsraad and I would think it would happen as a battle of the mines where people are arguing, we need to get rid of this. Look at this, this and this. And maybe there's like sentient artificial intelligence presence there going, we don't. We deserve to live to. Maybe there's some of that agency, but I really think it would be humanity deciding we need to purge for X, Y and Z reason. And then there maybe is a fanatical like sweeping of. And then there are planets and systems that would say, no, I refuse. I know that the great houses have decided we are not the great houses. You're not going to put us back in the barbarian eras. And then you'd have war. And that would be maybe the battle and the bodies and the blood and all that stuff. That's how I would see it playing out. Is the, like, maybe similar to in the United States, if we ever had a reckoning with like, gun rights. If they were like, no, no, no. We actually do need to take like assault rifles off the market. And then the people being like, not my guns. And then like, that would be, you know, and definitely not boom, boom, stompy, stompy robots. Yeah, I don't think so.

[Quinn]

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I agree.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yes. There certainly wouldn't be. In my vision of it, there certain would certainly wouldn't be robot Terminator style Robot Wars. I think I really like the Dune Encyclopedia's explanation of how the jihad exploded across the universe. There was an inciting incident, Right. I believe it was. Jahan Butler's daughter was killed because of a. A Dr. AI decided the child could not be saved.

[Leo]

Yeah, it was like a. Yeah, the, the.

[Abu]

I don't remember the details exactly. I'd have to look it up again.

[Leo]

It was run. It was the. The head, like, surgeon of the hospital was an AI that decided that the baby's life was not. Was going to be so complicated by different birth defects that it was an act of.

[Quinn]

It killed.

[Leo]

An act of kindness. It would be unethical to let it be born, to let it be. I do remember the mother's like, that's not your choice to make, blah, blah, blah.

[Abu]

And I love, I love that as an inciting incident because I do think you need some sort of inciting incident upon which the religious fervor and then the political machinations can build.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Explode out of control.

[Leo]

That's a great point.

[Abu]

So I think that would be like an incredible first episode of a Butlerian series that explores that. Where we see the inciting incident, we see the heartbreak. We. We see the morally gray question there of is it a mercy to kill this baby or do we let it try and struggle through whatever type of life it may have? And is it up to this fucking AI to decide that? And then for me, it would be. It would play out, I agree, Leo, in courtrooms, but I think it would also play out in, like, churches. Because to me, the Butlerian jihad is also so religiously motivated, it Gets twisted into a, like a, like this religious zealot hatred toward machines in my mind. And it becomes like we cannot give our hearts, minds and souls, the human soul over to an AI. This AI decided that the soul of this baby shouldn't have lived. We shouldn't be doing that. So yeah, for me, I think there would be an inciting incident and then we would see it play out politically, religiously, and then we would see like bad faith, faith actors jumping in, right. People who would benefit from the jihad exploding out. They get in there and they're stoking the flames, baby, you know, like, yeah, the robot.

[Leo]

The foam fingers.

[Abu]

But I, I think to make it actually complex to your point, Leah, we would need people on the other side, the house riches of the world being like, how are we as humanity going to survive without Google Maps? I can't get to the post office without Google Maps. You're telling me I can't use it anymore. And so there is this question of like where is the line of technology? You're being too zealous about this. Technology does good, it also does bad. How do we decide when enough is enough when it comes to tech? Some really great and very like poignant modern, like contemporary day questions rise up out of that. And I think that is so much more interesting than they enslaved us. So of course we got a pew. Pew them. Yeah, lase guns.

[Leo]

I, I think, you know, in the conversation we had yesterday, but, but in general I think you say computers. Yes, of course, AI. Yes, of course. This is a new thing, but it is on the same spectrum as like the printing press that took every book for hundreds of years was hand copied and now your books are no longer hand copied. There's no, there's no person who made that book possible for you. And so how far back are we going to push this? I. It's funny because we are accidentally right now pitching a much more compelling show than anything Brian Herbert's ever written. Because that would be so sick. It'd be so fun to see that argument really brought out. And I think modern audiences would, would.

[Abu]

Really, really, especially with A.I. you know, like these are questions we are going to in our lifetimes ask about fucking chatgpt.

[Quinn]

It's extreme.

[Abu]

How far is too much? Like where is enough with that? I also like uncomfortable Crocs comment here. The next jihad must be against nightclub scenes in science fiction. Here, here I'm all in on they.

[Leo]

Serve no purpose or they should at least generic looking nightclub scenes. And find science fiction because if you're going to give me another. I'm like, yeah, hell yeah, give me that nightclub. But you're right, like generic ones for sure. I get that.

[Abu]

Yeah. Okay, we got a bit of a question here from Tomas, who's confused about sisterhood timeline stuff. Tomas asks, could you folks explain the timeline of Reverend Mothers in the Dune HBO universe? I remember an episode of the podcast you guys explained about wild Reverend Mothers, but it seems in the series the Mother Superior was the first Reverend Mother in the HBO universe. Did I get this wrong? So kind of clarity on, like, what's going on with Reverend Mother timeline stuff.

[Leo]

Yeah, HBO timeline and Dune Sisterhood timeline. Rakela is the first awoken Reverend Mother and it was like an assassination attempt that went wrong. And she survived.

[Quinn]

She survived the poison.

[Leo]

Metabolizing the poison with her, with her stuff. So, yeah, she is the first. And then it's like 200 years and she's like getting to the end of her ability to just extend her life is when Dorotea is the second and Valya is the third. Or Valia's like the eighth or ninth or something like that. No, there's like 12. Anyway, it doesn't matter. A bunch of people get awoken after Dorothea, but Dorothea was the second, who is her granddaughter in the. In this show and also in Dune Sisterhood. So that also makes sense.

[Abu]

Okay, so Leo is the Order of Ops for Reverend Mothers, then Raquela first ever to do it, the OG and then Dorotea and then Valia. That's the order of.

[Leo]

Yeah, Dorotea in the. In sisterhood, Dorothea immediately then wakens three more sisters to, like, join her side because she's kind of launching an anti machine campaign campaign against Raquela. And once she awakens, she realizes that the sisterhood's using computers. So she's like, I need to create a cell of like, loyal awakened Reverend Mothers who understand the world as I do. And so she, I think she ends up awakening something like 12 reverend mothers.

[Abu]

Oh, wow.

[Leo]

And then.

[Abu]

I see. But she also, like, figured out the.

[Leo]

Formula by then she figures it out. She basically kind of on a whim, DX figures it out. She makes the poison work. And yes, she tries to get value.

[Quinn]

To take a tube of all you like, doesn't immediately.

[Leo]

She tries to. Yeah, I mean, from Valia's perspective, it's double suicide because Valia's like, this has never worked before off. So she pretends to take it, spits it out. And then when Dorothea is going through the agony on the ground, Valia just Lays down and pretends to go through the agony as well.

[Quinn]

Yeah, she like fakes it.

[Abu]

Oh, nice.

[Leo]

And no one.

[Abu]

That is a tough thing to fake.

[Leo]

You know, Good actor.

[Abu]

She's much rather fake an orgasm than that. Jesus. Wow. Faking the agony. Not an easy thing.

[Quinn]

When you guys were just talking about the Butler and Jihad, I was trying to remember, like something that later the second says where he says the target of the Butlerian jihad was the focus of. It was a machine attitude as much as the machine is themselves.

[Abu]

Yes, yes.

[Quinn]

And he says, the things we do without thinking. Machines allow us to do things without thinking and things we do without thinking. That's the real danger. I'm just thinking about like a college student, like being like, chat GPT, write my essay. And then it writes like it like hallucinates something. And then now you failed your course.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Quinn]

Because you've attempted to do this without thinking and having a machine do it for you. And now you're.

[Abu]

Yes. Which is a real thing schools are contending with. Not to blow up my sister's spot, but she's in grad school and she just used Jet GPT to rush through an assignment last week. She told me me and I was like, girl, what are you in grad school for? Are you learning?

[Leo]

Isn't that the point of grad school is to like, actually do the work?

[Abu]

Yeah. She was like, it's whatever. It's one assignment. And I was like, okay, sure.

[Leo]

Wow.

[Abu]

But Larian Jihad, be careful.

[Leo]

Yeah. Reina Butler disliked that message. Yeah. Yeah.

[Abu]

For real. Spinks has a fun question for us. What would you choose if you could see any Dune plot or concept realize on screen, either in a movie or a tv. TV series.

[Quinn]

Everyone knows what my answer is. Oh, it's yours. Say it.

[Leo]

Claire B. I mean, Claire be the movie.

[Quinn]

No, I want to see God himself.

[Abu]

For years. Yeah, that's true.

[Leo]

That's all. I also think, because we talked a lot about that during our book club for God Emperor. I think like a God Emperor of Dune miniseries that is fully horror based. It's from Duncan's perspective. And the whole time you are terrified of this giant human face that comes like out of the darkness and comes up with this like, silvery hands. And he's like, hello, Duncan. Like that, that scene.

[Quinn]

Yeah. Like the way he's like slowly turning on the lights. Like, slowly. Slowly doesn't get too creeped out.

[Leo]

And then Duncan slowly realizes he's actually surrounded by Leto's body. Like, oh, it'd be so good.

[Abu]

It'd be so good. I mean, I. I like, I honestly kind of want to try and write a spec script for God Emperor of Dune, because that is where I would open. The whole movie would be Duncan Idaho, Jason Momoa, walking into a dark room, shirtless, shirtless.

[Leo]

Shirtless, yeah.

[Abu]

Six packs, shirtless. You know what? We're just hanging dong scene one, naked, full frontal. And like, the. The. I would want this movie to open up specifically on that scene, him walking into a dark room. And then we hear this like godlike rumbling, huge voice. And we see that conversation play out that we do in the chapter, you know, in a more condensed movie format. As it dawns on Duncan, what he is talking to and who he is talking to. Right. Don't even reveal that this is an Atreides until like five minutes into the sea, like, and the lights are coming on. And then the fucking God Emperor's there. That would be such an incredible way to, I think, open a God Emperor of Dune movie.

[Quinn]

He speaks to Duncan and like Paul or Paul's voice, right?

[Leo]

So you'd hear Timothy Chalamet's voice coming from the darkness, but it's a little bit off. It's a little wrong. Oh, a great pick, Quinn.

[Abu]

A great pick. God emperor on screen.

[Leo]

What about you?

[Abu]

What about you, Leo? What, dude? Concept or plot? Oh, did you already answer? Oh, you answered Claire.

[Leo]

I asked first. What. What are you. What about you?

[Abu]

Oh, oh, you asked me first. Okay, Okay. I mainly asked you because I wasn't ready yet.

[Leo]

Okay, then I'll tell you what mine.

[Abu]

Okay, go ahead.

[Leo]

I either. I actually very much feel so Spinks commented random. But I really want to see Holtzman's arc on screen. And I was thinking about holtzman maybe like 10 minutes ago. The whole encyclopedia. Yeah, from the encyclopedia, where he's like an ornithopter racer who gets like paralyzed and then he gets. He. He is put into a computer or like into a artificial body. And then he like hacks the hospital and escapes and then just like flies off into space as like a human machine forever. Forever. And then just comes back and drops DLC technology. And I'm like, so minting shit in space. It's so, so cool. I really struggle to see how it could be adapted, like, because a lot of that would just be him. So maybe it would be. Every episode is like a different pass by and how different cultures are and you just get to see these very different worlds. But I think realistically. Oh, good Lord. I had an. Oh, the Impala. Yep. I want to See, the.

[Abu]

I was gonna say, why haven't you brought up Impala's yet?

[Leo]

The Impala is the. So it. And it became a Dune Tarot card. But the original idea was this highliner or this. This. It wasn't a highliner. It was a. It was a faster than light vessel. But they came in contact with, like, a pathogen in space that made them all lose their minds and believe that they were being chased by aliens. So they're all hallucinating, going, we're. We're being chased down by human aliens. Humanity is gone. Got it. Let's get the out of here. And they pushed their ship to almost the speed of light. And so then they are forever traveling because there's time dilation. So they're immortal now, and they're just. But I want to see crazy. The, like, Dune all, like, you know, people have got Holtzman shields, they've got, like, the Dune tech and stuff, but I want to see just a nice little compact, tight, spooky horror story where people are hallucinating, you're not sure if there are aliens or aren't. And then the final scene maybe is them approaching light speed. And, like, I don't know. I don't know how you end that satisfyingly, but, like, that is a nice, tight little plot that I would love to see adapted.

[Abu]

It's like a. In my mind, it's like a combination of Alien Romulus and. What's that. What's that movie? What's that movie with the time dilation and.

[Quinn]

Which one? Interstellar.

[Abu]

Interstellar.

[Leo]

Interstellar, yeah. When they're on the planet and, like, they come back in 12 years have passed. Even though, like, part I was gonna.

[Abu]

Mention from Alien, part interstellar time dilation, space stuff smashed together.

[Quinn]

I was gonna mention alien Romulus when we were talking about the robots making decisions, because there's that part in Alien Romulus where that guy hates androids because there was that mining incident and the robot had to decide to kill, like, a certain amount of people and save, like, the other people. And really hated Andy because of that. Something like that. Totally inside the butler.

[Leo]

Yeah, for sure.

[Abu]

For sure. My pick. I'm actually going to steal from Madison Thompson here. I was already thinking of it, so maybe it's not stealing, but I want to highlight Madison's comment. Enormous Semna biopic. I would just love an origin story of the Spacing Guild. Aurelius Venport, Norma Semna. We did an entire episode on this on the podcast, and to this day of the, like, 200 plus episodes we've done. It's like a top three episode for me because it's so good. It has everything. There's juicy romance, there's betrayal, there's politics, there's business. Like there's like succession style business scheming. You could really flesh that out. The origins of the Guild and Norma Sevna and Aurelius Venport in particular as your two sort of anchoring main characters in a biopic style historical look at the Spacing Guild. I would love to see that played out. Specifically the encyclopedia version of it.

[Leo]

I could also see like Norma as a sort of, you know, like if we've seen Oppenheimer where it's like him sort of like beginning to theorize the splitting of the atom and like how this could be applied. And like some of those more abstract moments. I could see Norma like realizing that void space is something that can be used and having this idea that spice will get her there and then dropping into void space for the first time. And like that could be such an incredible moment for sure. That's such a.

[Quinn]

That's a good answer.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Or again to, to my earlier joke answer, Claire B. Road trip show. Because Claire B. Claire B. Needs to be of this.

[Abu]

Yeah, there was a comment here who said that V for V for Vertigo said Claraby Road trip show.

[Leo]

Yeah, excellent.

[Abu]

Nothing, nothing said, look, Star wars had so many like kids spin off shows. Nothing says we can't have a Dune kid spin off show. Give me that Saturday morning Dune cartoon.

[Leo]

Yeah, I love it.

[Abu]

Okay, well we're. We're coming up here on the end of the stream. We want to wrap up shortly. So get your last questions in folks. In the comments here. I did want to share one of the funniest comments from a patron we got in Discord during the live watch along that we did for episode one. Here, let me find it. I have it saved in here somewhere. Mdot specifically, one of our patrons observed that Desmond Hart is basically just Temu Duncan Idaho. Right. That's the vibe we're all getting.

[Quinn]

Yeah, I noticed that. That's why I was saying go. I was like, yeah, you look like Duncan.

[Leo]

So I just think gola the wish.com like we've got Duncan Idaho at home kind of thing.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Quinn]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Abu]

We've got Duncan Idaho at home. So I thought that was really funny. Great job M dot. You get the joke of the week for this episode. Wonderful. Actually, while we're talking about Duncan, there is a question in here that's less Prophecy related, but maybe we hit on it quickly. Ryan asks, do we think Jason Momoa is a good Duncan and could he pull off? Duncan Gola didn't mind him in part one, but the role does significantly change in future books.

[Quinn]

Well, I've always had the same opinion which was that like I like Jason Momoa, but I don't think that if, I don't think they would have, I don't think they have to stick with Jason Momoa if they were going to do the golden thing.

[Abu]

Okay.

[Quinn]

Like I think that if they're gonna, if he's a clone then he can be a younger version of himself. He could be altered in some way. I don't think they would have to stick with the same actor, but that's just my opinion. I think, I think you could recast potentially. But if you want it, if they want it.

[Leo]

I, I think he's fine. I, I don't like, I think Duncan Idaho as a character. I'm, I, I kind of like it's a lovehate relationship. Right. Like Duncan Idaho in God Emperor of Dune is kind of a piece of the whole time and he's kind of like a meathead who doesn't really understand what's going on and it's just so like in his own head about things. So I, I don't like, I think as hate would be the most challenging is him as the Zensuni philosopher, him as the sort of intellectual who's kind of carrying these conversations with, with older Timothee Chalamet. But I think if he can do that, I, I, I've seen, I've only seen Momoa in a few things and it's always been the sort of like, like in the Aquaman movies which have not great scripts and awful direction. He's fine. So I don't know. I think he's fine. He's also like a world class rock climber and famously Duncan Idaho needs to be a very good rock climber. Like a very good, like a soul good rock climber. Like he always so good. Like you go to pornhub.com and you're like rock climbing like that's Jason Momoa's skill. So the fact that Jason Momoa has that already and then is this like towering kind of strong looking guy. I think he, I think he's got what it takes. I don't know that listening these scenes would be hard, but that's where a good director could get a good performance out of him, I think.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah. I think with the right coaching and with the right script, Momoa does have the juice. I think he could do it. I think he's just worked on a lot of projects where he has neither of those things. And thus we see the worst version of him.

[Leo]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, he gets. It's. It's both the pigeonholing effect of Hollywood, where you. You play the himbo in one thing, and people go, we need a himbo. Oh, get him. You know, and, like, that's just what it is. Yeah, exactly. Himbo staff for many roles. That's.

[Quinn]

See, my thing is, although I like Jason Momoa, he was never like my Duncan Idaho, and I. He fits in the Villeneuve movie. It's fine. But he's never, like, my idea of, like, Duncan Idaho. Like, he's not. To me, when I think of Duncan Idaho from the Frank river books, I don't see Jason Momoa's character. It's almost like a different character. I don't. I don't. I don't. I can't do this thing with the actors because I don't know actors names.

[Abu]

So, like, I'm the same. I hate doing that, too. Everybody's like, who would you cast in so and so?

[Leo]

And beside Whoopi Goldberg as Duncan.

[Abu]

I don't know if this is just me. I'm curious how you guys read books. When I read books, I just can't picture faces. People are just blank nothings in my mind. Like, even if they are described in the book, I cannot picture them at all.

[Leo]

Yeah, I don't really pick. I don't visualize the characters as much as I'll. Like, if they. If I'm given details about them, they'll kind of be there for a minute in my head, but then, like, they fade, and it's more just an accumulation of their behaviors.

[Quinn]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

I think I'm mostly the same way. Like, sometimes I'll maybe have a face, but usually not.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's tough. Faces are tough for me. So whenever people ask, like, who would you cast? I'm just like, I don't know. I had no idea who I was even imagining reading the book.

[Leo]

That being said, I. It might have a little bit to do with the authors, right. Because I think there are a lot of authors who just, like, leave descriptions behind because it doesn't really matter that much what people look like. And there have been books I've read where they keep driving home his, like. And then he, like, tossed his curly brown hair, and then, like, they just keep repeating that kind of stuff, and it's never great. I'm never like, yeah.

[Quinn]

George R.R. martin with the Song of Ice and Fire books is insane with his descriptions, like, everything of, like, people of, like, just, oh, my God, he's insane with this.

[Leo]

So that's. That's a good example of someone who did it well, where, like, I think he describes this character as really deeply. And then you. You get a lot of that. And then it's also good. I also. Let's see. We had another comment that I think we should pull up. Philip D'Renzo, the Harkonnen Atreides one.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question.

[Leo]

Basically. Yes.

[Abu]

Wait, let's read it first for the people who will listen to the audio version of this. Philip asks, are the Harkonnens and Atreides mortal enemies at the time of the show, or are they still cordial at this time?

[Leo]

Yeah, and you've. You've read the books recently, too, Quinn, how would you answer this question?

[Quinn]

I mean, I would say that the feud is ongoing.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

At this point in time.

[Leo]

Yeah. So, yeah. So the. The important thing to note, Philip, is that, like, the Battle of Corin, Abelard, Harkonnen, like, kind of ditched Vorian and his forces at a moment where they needed their support. So Vorian won in spite of Abelard's forces leaving. Now, again, there's all. There's a lot. A big theme in Dune is like, who wrote the history and who's really telling the truth in all of this? And generally, it's understood that the Harkonnens did kind of abandon the fight.

[Quinn]

A abandoned.

[Leo]

So Atreides, Vorian kind of called him out against his. And Vorian didn't even really want to because he liked. He liked House Harkonnen quite a bit. But he's like, yeah, he fucking left. And because of that, the Emperor was like, disgrace this house. They're no longer a great house. Send them to Lankavel. This shitty, icy planet and House Harkonnen for hundreds of years are kind of like, fueling this feeling of we deserve to be a great house. And they lied. They did not tell the truth. Vorin Atreides is a liar. And he basically threw us under the bus. So already by the time of Valya, Harkonnen, Valia and her in the book, and her brother Griffin and Tula, they hate House Atreides. And a big. A big part of sisterhood of Dune is her being like, we need to recover to where we were before the Atreides fucked us. And then Vorian Atreides shows up and she's like, I hold up. I'm gonna kill this Atreides. So, you know, we'll see how she reacts to Kieran Atreides and if she. We'll see kind of how that happens. We have yet to see. Well, we have yet to see an Atreides character meeting a hearkening character in prophecy. So we don't know if this is going to be something that's like, forefront for the showrunner and for this story.

[Quinn]

But there seems to be some differences between, like, this iteration of Valia versus, like, the book version. I know it is like she's removed 30 years. But, like, even in the flashback, there were some things, like her relationship to Mother Raquela that are like, I feel like, pretty.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Quinn]

Different.

[Abu]

Much more loyal to the sisterhood in the book. It feels like she's much more Harkonnen first sister.

[Quinn]

It's all about the Harkonnen.

[Abu]

And it's kind of reversed in the show. Good question, though, Philip. Okay, I think let's end it there on that question by Philip. Really great stream. Quinn. Thank you once again for joining us. Such a pleasure to have you in these conversations and to have you share your immense dune knowledge with us and our listeners.

[Quinn]

Thanks for having me on. I could love talking to you guys anytime.

[Leo]

Sweet.

[Quinn]

Yeah, great.

[Leo]

Well, before you go, dear listeners, and I see some comments in chat. Could listen to us all day. Does the stream have to end Ask Spen it does.

[Abu]

We'll be back next week. Next Thursday.

[Leo]

We'll be back same time. And you. This will be up for people to hear. Now, before we go, we want to remind you of some ways to support what we do here at Gam Jabbar and and ways of keeping in touch with us. The two best ways to support us is one, to become a patron over at patreon.com gomjabbar oh my God. The link animated on screen. And to get yourself some duke theme swag from our merch store, gomjabbar shop.com I've been sipping from my Gom Jabbar needle pint glass today.

[Quinn]

Nice.

[Leo]

Which is very fun. So check out those links. They're going to be in the show Notes. Also, we love to hear from you. So either join us for these live streams, join our Discord chat with us there, or send us an email. Email is gomjabarpodcastmail.com you can send us your thoughts, your questions, pictures of your cute pets, and as the pop up on the screen says we now also accept one time donations. So if you have subscription fatigue or if you have too much junk in your life and you don't want extra stuff, you can just send us a financial donation if you so desire. Ben's got a hoodie on the way. Can't wait for it to arrive. Which one did you get? Knife chip and shatter. Something like that.

[Abu]

The knife chip and shadow as a closing. Goodbye. Leo, can you do the fade rather voice one more time? The folks are asking. They love it.

[Leo]

Well, sort of. Charlie Bravo also.

[Abu]

Well, hell Atreides, can you say the mind of man is holy in fade rods?

[Leo]

The mind of man is holy. Fade made.

[Abu]

Oh gosh. Okay. All right. Thank you so much for hanging out in the live chat, Quinn. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Quinn]

No problem guys.

[Abu]

We will see you all next week for episode two and of doom prophecy and more episodes suits and more coverage and more streams. Until then, bye bye everybody.