Shaddam IV Corrino

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast – Episode Summary Episode Title: Shaddam IV Corrino
Release Date: February 14, 2025
Hosts: Abu and Leo
Podcast by: Lore Party Media

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1. Introduction to Shaddam IV Corrino

In this episode, Abu and Leo delve into the intricate life and reign of Emperor Shaddam IV Corrino, the last of the Corrino dynasty in Frank Herbert's Dune universe. The hosts aim to provide a comprehensive exploration of Shaddam IV's character, from his early years to his eventual downfall at the hands of Paul Atreides.

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2. Early Life and Rise to Power

Abu outlines Shaddam IV's origins, noting he was born in 10134 AG on Planet Kaitain to Elroud IX and Lady Fusril Corrino. Despite his luxurious upbringing—complete with lavish comforts reminiscent of modern-day PlayStations—Shaddam's childhood was also marked by rigorous training and testing to prepare him for future leadership.

Leo highlights the competitive nature of Shaddam's path to the throne. "Shaddam was among numerous potential heirs for the Corrino throne," he explains, emphasizing that his ascension was not guaranteed. Instead, Shaddam had to prove his worth through challenging rituals and strategic maneuvers.

Notable Quote:
"Who hasn't seen Emperor's New Group? And it's so frustrating." — Leo [00:22]

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3. Relationship with Hasmir Fenring

A pivotal relationship in Shaddam's life was his friendship with Hasmir Fenring, a distant cousin and a shrewd political strategist. Abu and Leo discuss how Fenring's counsel was instrumental in Shaddam's survival during the intense training and intrigue ritual. This friendship not only helped Shaddam secure his position but also underscored the influence of trusted advisors in his governance.

Notable Quote:
"Hasmir Fenring, an incredibly smart, savvy political strategist... much of Shaddam's life will play out the way it does because of Fenring." — Abu [07:15]

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4. Ascension as Emperor and Leadership of Sardaukar

At a young age, Shaddam assumed the role of Emperor and became the leader of the formidable Sardaukar force. Abu notes that his leadership was deemed "acceptable if not brilliant," earning him respect among the Sardaukar despite his youth. This position solidified his authority within the Imperium, allowing him to exert military might effectively.

Notable Quote:
"That Shaddam the Fourth Corrino... has been prepared from a very young age with the best." — Leo [12:22]

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5. Challenges and Political Intrigues During His Reign

Upon ascending to the throne, Shaddam IV faced a complex web of imperial politics involving the Landsraad, the economic powerhouse CHOAM, and the shadowy Bene Gesserit. Abu emphasizes Shaddam's frustration with the limited actual power he could wield, despite his esteemed position.

Notable Quote:
"Shaddam finds this incredibly annoying. He wishes he could muscle his way through more of his policies and his ideas and his vision." — Abu [23:17]

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6. Marriage to Lady Anirul and Bene Gesserit Influence

A significant turning point in Shaddam's reign was his arranged marriage to Lady Anirul, orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit. This marriage contract not only bound Shaddam to a Bene Gesserit ally but also imposed strict succession rules: only children born to Anirul could inherit the throne, sidelining any potential heirs from imperial concubines.

Abu theorizes that this arrangement was a strategic move by the Bene Gesserit to control the Corrino lineage and influence Shaddam's rule. The hosts discuss conflicting accounts from the Dune Encyclopedia regarding the nature of Shaddam and Anirul's marriage, suggesting possible propaganda or historical inaccuracies.

Notable Quote:
"The inducements offered by the sisterhood must have been impressive even by imperial standards." — Abu [25:52]

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7. Reign as Emperor: Policies and Alleged Actions

During his tenure, Shaddam IV was depicted as a somewhat detached ruler, relying heavily on advisors and the Sardaukar to manage the Imperium. The hosts explore various alleged actions attributed to him, including:

• Intervening in House Harkonnen Conflicts: Preventing the assassination of Baron Harkonnen, which maintained stability but also raised suspicions about Bene Gesserit influences.

• Kidnapping Minor House Daughters: Shaddam allegedly kidnapped twins from a minor house, but due to the lack of concrete evidence, these actions remained unproven and shrouded in mystery.

Abu and Leo discuss how these actions were never substantiated in courts, allowing Shaddam to maintain his facade of legitimacy while engaging in dubious activities.

Notable Quote:
"If you're ever in management, like you don't want to be someone's nightmare story, but you don't have to be their favorite." — Leo [10:59]

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8. Downfall and Defeat by Paul Atreides

The culmination of Shaddam IV's reign came with his defeat by Paul Atreides, leading to his exile on Seleucus Secundus along with his daughters. Abu and Leo reflect on Shaddam's bitter end, highlighting his deep-seated resentment towards Paul and the measures taken to erase references to him.

Abu notes that Shaddam's final years were marked by increasing depression and frustration, exacerbated by the loss of legitimate heirs due to the Bene Gesserit’s succession stipulations.

Notable Quote:
"The end of Shaddam's entry is this petty bitterness over the kid who rose to power and dethroned him." — Leo [51:10]

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9. Conclusion and Reflections on Shaddam IV's Legacy

In wrapping up the episode, Abu and Leo contemplate the tragic trajectory of Shaddam IV Corrino—a ruler constrained by lineage, political manipulation, and personal unhappiness. They underscore the irony of his position: as the most powerful man in the universe, Shaddam had little true control over his destiny, ultimately leading to his downfall.

The hosts express a desire for more in-depth explorations of Shaddam’s motivations and the unseen machinations behind his reign, suggesting the richness of his character as a subject for future discussion.

Notable Quote:
"He was fucking locked into contracts because of his dad. All of these life choices were made for the most powerful person in the galaxy." — Abu [51:58]

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Highlights and Memorable Moments

• Training Ritual: Shaddam's survival of the nine-month testing grounds, showcasing his strategic prowess and Fenring's influence. [08:00]

• Bene Gesserit Manipulation: Exploration of how the sisterhood's control extended into Shaddam's personal and political life. [25:52]

• Marriage Dynamics: The contrasting accounts of Shaddam and Anirul's marriage, highlighting potential propaganda within the Dune Encyclopedia. [29:03]

• Alleged Misdeeds: Discussion on Shaddam's unproven allegations, emphasizing his ability to maintain power despite controversial actions. [44:35]

• Downfall Reflection: The poignant end of Shaddam's legacy, overshadowed by bitterness and loss of power. [51:10]

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Final Thoughts

Abu and Leo provide a nuanced portrayal of Emperor Shaddam IV Corrino, balancing his strengths as a leader with his personal and political failings. This episode offers a deep dive into the complexities of Shaddam's character, making it an essential listen for Dune enthusiasts seeking to understand the legacy of one of its pivotal figures.

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Join the Conversation: Share your theories and engage with fellow Dune fans as Abu and Leo continue to explore the rich tapestry of the Dune universe.

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Transcript

[Leo]

Today on the show, we've thrown off the Emperor's Groove, which means we're being tossed from the palace cliffs. But on the way down, dear listeners, we're talking about Shaddam IV and Shaddam's poison. The poison for Shaddam. The poison especially chosen to kill Shaddam. That poison.

[Abu]

I get all of these references.

[Leo]

Who hasn't seen Emperor's New Group? And it's so frustrating. One of these days there's something about.

[Abu]

Changing pants in there, right?

[Leo]

What?

[Abu]

No, different movie.

[Leo]

The Emperor's New Clothes. Is that the emperor's new robe or whatever.

[Abu]

I see, mixing those two classics up. Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe, from Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name's Abu.

[Leo]

My name is Leo.

[Abu]

And folks, yeah, today we're talking about an emperor. Oh, the last Corrino Emperor, in fact.

[Leo]

Spoilers.

[Abu]

Yeah, I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Leo]

Yeah, who's to say? Maybe they continue forever.

[Abu]

We're talking all about Emperor Shaddam iv. Corrino. Or is it Shaddam Kirino iv?

[Leo]

I've got no idea.

[Abu]

Is he the fourth Shaddam or is he the.

[Leo]

Either way, he's got to be the fourth Shaddam. And in fact, I know he is for sure the fourth Shaddam. So Shaddam, fourth Corrino, Leto ii, Atreides. Shaddam for Kirino.

[Abu]

For Kirino. Okay, we solved it. Shaddam iv, carino. We're talking all about the late great emperor that we all know and love from the films and the books.

[Leo]

That's how you know we're peasants. We've got no idea how honorifics work before we get into the life of that Christopher Walken esque man. Today's episode does contain spoilers for Dune by Frank Herbert. So if you've read the first book, if you've seen both of Villeneuve's films, you are good to go.

[Abu]

That's right. And of course, up top, a huge shout out to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons, Daniel Dion, Jonathan Lambert and Brad Hutchins, folks. Yeah, Hashtag, y'all are my real emperors.

[Leo]

Whoa.

[Abu]

That Shaddam the Fourth Kirino or Shaddam Kirino the Fourth, whoever he is not my emperor.

[Leo]

Who's he? Does he even go to the show?

[Abu]

He's not a subscriber.

[Leo]

He's not a patron.

[Abu]

Thank you so much for your generosity. Of course, our gratitude extends to all of our patrons at every level who help make the show possible.

[Leo]

Indeed. And if you are not in a place to be a monthly subscriber on Patreon, we also do have a one time tip link in the show notes via Buy me a coffee. So if you like what we do here and you want to help keep the lights on, that's another way to support us.

[Abu]

It is indeed. Okay, so game plan for today's episode. If you've heard any of our character deep dives before, you kind of know what to expect today. We're going to begin the conversation today by examining Shaddam's childhood and his young life. What we know of it. A lot of this sourced from the Dune Encyclopedia. Then we will talk about how exactly Shaddam IV gained the golden lion throne. It's very interesting, it's juicy. And finally, we will wrap up today's episode by taking a look at the events of his early rule and the events leading up to and through the first Dune book where we meet that character in full. And obviously we'll wrap up by talking about where, when and how he exactly died. The full life of Shaddam IV Carrino today.

[Leo]

One stop shop.

[Abu]

So before we talk about this guy, let's take a quick break. Let's prepare ourselves for a history lesson, a biography.

[Leo]

Uh huh.

[Abu]

We'll see you in just a minute, folks. We'll be right back.

[Leo]

Welcome back, everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break. All right, let's do it. Let's talk about Shaddam for Corrino. And let's start off with his earliest years, his early life. Now, Shaddam Karina was born in 10134 AG. I checked. That's like six, seven years before Daddy Leto Atreides. So he's kind of putting him in that ballpark. Two parents, Elroud IX and Lady Fusril Corrino on Planet Kaitain. Now, Shaddam, his earliest years were in some ways exactly what you would expect. He is the son of the emperor. Dude's living it up. He's got lavish comfort. He's got all of the money, the fucking. He's got a PlayStation 2 when he's like 6. Like what? That's so cool.

[Abu]

That rat bastard.

[Leo]

Personal jealousy there. But then on the other hand, on the other side of the coin, he is the son of an emperor and this is literally Dune. So also, his childhood involved a lot of rigorous training and testing and basically Preparing him for the life he's going to lead.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

Now, a little surprising to learn Shaddam was among numerous potential heirs for the Karino throne. Yeah, he's not sliding in like Goro Miyazaki, just fucking doing it. He or like a certain author who's also stepped into a certain franchise we all know and love, he has to prove himself along the way as a child and as a young man worthy of the position. And it's clear from the Dune encyclopedia, it's clear it was not a surefire guaranteed thing. Our dude had to earn it.

[Abu]

He did. And we'll talk about that shortly. But before we get to how exactly he earned the throne, we need to talk about a very important friend he makes.

[Leo]

Oh, Zoe.

[Abu]

Very early on here in his childhood.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Young Shaddam befriends none other.

[Leo]

Yes.

[Abu]

Stop me if you've heard this name before.

[Leo]

Oh, say it.

[Abu]

Than Hasmir Fenring.

[Leo]

Oh, best character.

[Abu]

Hello.

[Leo]

Best character in the book. Hello.

[Abu]

Shaddam and Fenring strike up a childhood friendship. They are related. Fenring is a sort of distant cousin of the Karinos, and so understandably, they probably run in similar young circles together. And this would become quite possibly the most important relationship in Shaddam's entire life.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Because as it turns out, Hasmir Fenring, an incredibly smart, savvy political strategist.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And it's because of Fenring that much of Shaddam's life will play out the way it does.

[Leo]

Yeah, absolutely. Now, as you're saying, this foundation's laid. Shaddam is gearing up for his potential thronedom and Fenring takes the role of Count. Shortly after Count Fenring becomes Count Fenring, Shaddam's life is upended because now is the time. Now is the time to prove your mettle, young man. And this sounds to me like such an anime training arc. Yes, this would be absolutely.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

This would be such a fire anime season because Shaddam and three other Emperor Aspirants. So presumably these are Kirinos from Mistresses or it doesn't say that they're siblings of his. So maybe they are like first cousins and close to the throne, but not the son of Elroud. Nevertheless, these four are sent to House Corrino's private testing grounds.

[Abu]

Hello.

[Leo]

And the other three die. Wow.

[Abu]

I mean, it's straight up giving anime tournament arc. You know, like I saw this play out in season two. My Hero Academia.

[Leo]

Yeah. Or like Hunger Games or like Squid Game. You get like four or five people enter One person leaves like hardened and just a whole new animal, right?

[Abu]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Leo]

Now, from the Dune encyclopedia, quote. The young Count's advice is believed to be one of the factors responsible for Shaddam's surviving the training and intrigue ritual administered to him there and returning to Kaitain, the sole survivor of his group, after only nine months. Wow. End quote.

[Abu]

Incredible. It's also interesting to me that the wording here in the encyclopedia is after only nine months. It feels like this is something that this potential training intrigue is like a slow burn thing that maybe happens over years until these candidates come of age and one of them clearly wins. And it feels like because of Fenring's advice and training and help, Shaddam just mercs these dudes in like a quick nine months and just killed the competition. Literally.

[Leo]

Yeah. And again, if that's the purpose of the training and intrigue ritual, like what a great way to set someone up for the backstabbery and assassins and plotting and Landsraad negotiations and all the stuff that you have to do as Emperor, I kind of get it. I mean, yeah, you're killing a lot of kids, but like, it's brutal but practical. Sounds like Dune to me. Yeah. So having returned alive and having now been installed as the Na Emperor of House Corrino, Shaddam is given an official position as the leader of the Sardaukar. And this is following tradition. So this, this young man is now the head and commander of the Sardaukar. And by most accounts, Shaddam was an acceptable if not brilliant leader of the Sardaukar. Okay, so all, all in all, yeah, passing grades. Some seem to really like him. In fact, he was respected by many of the Startaukar who followed and served him. So that's pretty good.

[Abu]

The Sardaukar were like, I've had better managers, I've had worse managers. No complaints.

[Leo]

Honestly, goals, goals. If you're ever in management, like you don't want to be someone's nightmare story, but you don't have to be their favorite. Nevertheless, Shaddam, hey, doing all right for himself. It's also worth noting he is not even 21 years old yet. Yes, the upbringing, befriending Fenring, the nine month training arc camp where he has to kill three of his friends or whatever, like all of that's happening to this guy in his teens and he's not even 21 yet. And he is now the commander of an undefeatable military force that has kept the balance of power for 10,000 years. Pretty incredible stuff.

[Abu]

Right? It's badass. And also giving a bit like Kennedy, you know. So like, it's hard to imagine a 21 year old is actually qualified to be the leader of an undefeatable Sardaukar force that's been around for thousands of years. But of course he's a Kirino, so he's gonna get that title once he has officially been declared the Na Emperor and the next in line. It just makes me think this only comes to mind because I think just recently I read that RFK jr's application to Harvard was just one slip of paper with his name on it and he got accepted.

[Leo]

Yeah, I do think that better than RFK Jr. Yes. I think Shaddam has actually had proper training and property. He has been prepared from a very young age with the best. You imagine someone like Thufir Hawat teaching you how to be a Commander from when you're like 7 years old and he's in his. So he's had 10 years of like military training and tactical training and he's, you know, he's, he is almost certainly given the skill set necessary to be a good commander. But you're also right that it's like there is a degree here. Where is he in this position because he is more qualified than someone say like Duke Leto Atreides? Probably not. This is almost certainly because he is within the family already. But such is bloodlines and such is.

[Abu]

And from the encyclopedia, I never got the sense that he was exceptional. He wasn't a genius politician like Fenring. He wasn't outstanding in any way. He was just good. He was again, acceptable if not brilliant is the quote we just read. That's just kind of his vibe. Like he's not a bad commander of the Sardaukar, but he's not particularly like, oh my God, this is the greatest commander or something we've ever had. And it's interesting because I feel like that continues to be a through line for Shaddam's life is like, he's not the greatest Emperor this Imperium has ever seen. He's also not the worst. He is just like, fine, he's good.

[Leo]

He's kind of an embodiment of the status quo, which makes perfect sense because that's kind of what he represents in the story. But I think credit where credit is due. He knows to rely on Fenring and Fenring's brilliant generational brilliance as a tactician and a saboteur. And also as we'll talk about with the Sardaukar he knows how to put people in power or leave things to advisors. And I think that's also a mark of good leadership. It's like, you know how to delegate and not be the one necessarily at the front making every decision. But yes, we'll get into that in a second as we talk about how his reign actually kicks off. Right?

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah, let's get this guy on the throne and then we'll talk about his reign. So let's talk about that. He's a young new leader of the Sardaukar. He spends a lot of time away from Kaitain at this point in his life, out on missions, doing his commander of the Sardaukar job and role, getting some experience out in the Imperium. But this is Dune, folks. And Dune is synonymous with assassination attempts. That is exactly where the next turning point in young Shaddam's life is. Because in 10155 AG Shaddam is like, you know, on shore leave. He's back home on Kaiten, relaxing a bit from work when Count Fenring, his longtime friend and confidant, informs him that he's uncovered a plot, an assassination plot against Shaddam iv.

[Leo]

Whoa. The sole heir of House Corrino.

[Abu]

The sole heir of House Corrino.

[Leo]

Oh my God.

[Abu]

Is this Dune?

[Leo]

What is this?

[Abu]

And for what it's worth, like, Fenring is exactly the kind of like second in command guy you want because he not only comes with the problem, he also offers up a solution.

[Leo]

Oh my God. Woo. Oh my God. King, King, King.

[Abu]

So he proposes like, okay, here's the plot or what I think the plot is, and here's how I think you should counter it. And so that's what Shaddam does. He follows Fenrin's advice, he exposes the plot in a very public drama kid fashion. You know, it makes it very well known within the courts, confetti everywhere. And the reason for this is twofold. One is because making this plot so public, like foiling it and calling it out so publicly makes it harder for the perpetrators to then come up with follow up plots. Right? You can't be so obvious as to try to assassinate this guy again after you got called out. And secondly, it also exposed this secret technology that only House Corrino had kept under wraps for years. The Hunter Seeker. Ever heard of it?

[Leo]

Yeah, that's the little.

[Abu]

This is incredible.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's the little thing that comes into Paul's bedroom on Arrakis and Arrakeen, right?

[Abu]

This was a private secret assassination tool that House Corrino had kept under wraps. And Shaddam here, once again, like, very publicly exposes this thing and effectively makes it available to all of the Imperium and all of the other great houses and players. So two dramatic moves on Count Fenring's recommendation here from Shaddam IV that effectively save his life from this assassination attempt.

[Leo]

I do like to think, because I think, as with all things, you know, you see Holtzman shields and lays guns and ornithopters and stuff, you kind of just picture. Yeah, these have been around for a long time. And when you see the Hunter Seeker scene with Paul, you go, well, he knew what to do. He knew to stop moving. Like, this is kind of common knowledge, but it is fun to think about. This was only exposed to the Imperium, like 46 years ago. So for the last 40 years, young up and coming heirs to houses have been taught to like, what to do. But can you imagine the thrill of being like an off brand hitman, just like someone who's not even attached to a great house and you're like, oh, shit. New assassination drop. New, like merch that kills people. Sick. Are you gonna get a Hunter Seeker, bro? Like, oh, shit. These are so. Yeah, they kept this on under wraps.

[Abu]

Like, I spray painted mine. Mine's red.

[Leo]

Whoa, yours is red. Mine has like flames and it goes as it like flies into the room. It's so sick, dude.

[Abu]

Yeah, that's so funny to think the assassination like, sneaker head, hunter head bros out there customizing their Hunter Seekers. Once this drops, you know, this new tech, hot new tech drops, they just.

[Leo]

Have a display case of Hunter Seekers. And you're in their house and you're like, are you going to use any of those? And they're like, no, no. It values them to crease the wings. To crease the Holtzman generators.

[Abu]

That's so funny. What a great image. Now here's the thing, folks. I didn't mention a very important detail about this assassination plot earlier. The fact that a Hunter Seeker was involved in this plot and that only House Corrino up until this point has had access to the Hunter Seeker means one very obvious thing.

[Leo]

Yes.

[Abu]

The call came from inside the house.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Turns out El Rude ix, father of Shadam iv, Garino.

[Leo]

Oh, no.

[Abu]

Was behind this plot to kill his own son and to kill his own.

[Leo]

Heir apparent, not my father. Oh, no.

[Abu]

Wild stuff.

[Leo]

So Elroud is implicated in the assassination plot. And rather than say, putting that on blast, and rather than like confronting him and tearing apart the house and Doing all that crazy stuff. They chose not to expose the Sitting Emperor and instead they named and executed a scapegoat. They said oh that guy is that fucking guy. Guy's like what? Poor guy. I know. And while by all accounts Shaddam's hands stayed clean. He actually left. He was like all right, we've killed the guy who's responsible. Right, Scapegoat. That guy's been executed publicly. I'm going to go back to work. He goes back to commanding the Sardaukar. While he was away, Elroud was murdered via poison via chomarchy.

[Abu]

Great area. I know, I was 10 planets away. What are you talking about?

[Leo]

I wasn't even there. I was on another planet. No, that was weird. He got, that was good. He got Ukrainian for a second. Well nevertheless. So 10,156 AG through a series of. Whoa. So mysterious. No one knows how we are shocked to our core. Certainly nothing involving Count Fenring of course. No, he's innocent. Boy's a good boy. He's never done anything in his life. Elroud dies and Shaddam officially becomes the 81st Padishah, Emperor of the Universe.

[Abu]

Wow, what a come up for our guy Shaddam. Very exciting stuff and always fun to see how important Fenring is in that role as well.

[Leo]

Yeah, I agree, he's the best.

[Abu]

He's literally the best character canonically.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

All right, well let's take a breather. Now that we've covered Shaddam's young life and his come up going to talk about his early years as emperor and some of the hurdles that he faced. So hang tight. All of that coming up just after a quick break. We'll see you soon.

[Leo]

Welcome back everybody. Hope you enjoyed your break. Hope you dodged any hunter seekers sent by your very own family to take you out. Let's talk about Emperor Shaddam iv. He has inherited the throne. Abu, tell us about his reign, what's it like, what's going on?

[Abu]

It's a great time and everybody had fun. The end.

[Leo]

Sweet. Thanks for listening folks.

[Abu]

Until this terrorist named Paul Atreides showed up.

[Leo]

Oh my God. Fucking. He didn't even kill three of his wrong scripts.

[Abu]

This is the state sanctioned script. I'm looking at the wrong one.

[Leo]

This was emailed to us by the carino big dick69mail.com. Who is this?

[Abu]

No, no, no, let's talk about his reign. So once Shaddam officially has the throne he honestly early on he's pretty mired in this like web of imperial politics. He basically inherits a lot of political baggage from his clearly, like, shitty dad.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And records throughout Shaddam's reign indicate how frustrating this all is for him. Basically.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Because as we know, there exists a delicate political balance within the Imperium. You have the Royal House, AKA the Imperial House, AKA the Corrinos, on one side of the Tripod, on the other side you have the Landsraad, the collection of the great houses, balancing them out. And then on the other side you have the economic force of Choam. And of course, in between all of that, you have the Bene Gesserit secretly within.

[Leo]

Right, right.

[Abu]

Pulling strings from the shadows. All of this means that how much power the Emperor can actually wield is in reality quite limited. And throughout his entire reign, Shaddam finds this incredibly annoying. He wishes he could muscle his way through more of his policies and his ideas and his vision, but he is constantly stuck within this web of politics and intrigue and balance of powers that exists in the Imperium.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's so interesting to me because I think we have a perception of the Golden Lion Throne and what it means to be Emperor and we see a little bit of it with Paul, but truly to see that Shaddam himself is frustrated at the limitations of the power of the most powerful seat in the universe. Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting consideration and definitely gives some credence to the Bene Gesserit way of approaching problem solving. It's like they are not restricted the way he is by like the Landsraad and by Choam and by all these like bureaucratic checks and balances. They can just pull the strings and they don't have to worry as much about those checks and balances. Meanwhile, he inherits all of this shit. All of these people going, saya, that's not the way to do things. And he's like, God damn it. Well, it's clearly frustrating for him. And as we talk about all this shit that he's inherited, one of the things that is truly mind blowing that he inherits from his father's negotiations is his marriage contract. Oh, so dude is made Emperor by, I don't know, allegedly killing his father. And yet he steps into this position suddenly with a marriage contract set up by the Bene Gesserit that the basically like they had negotiated with Elruod. And the deal that they had struck forces Shaddam to accept an arranged marriage with Lady Anirul.

[Abu]

Incredible.

[Leo]

Now the terms of the deal also stipulated that only children born by Anerul could succeed Shaddam, which means no children by imperial concubines. No, you know, you were out with your harem and you had a bunch of kids. None of them could be heir to the throne. It has to be a child born to Aniru.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Which is absolutely insane. I mean the fact that the Bene Gesserit had the royal house by the balls like this is just nuts. It's crazy. Here's a quote. The inducements offered by the sisterhood must have been impressive even by imperial standards. End quote, to say the least. Yeah, no kidding.

[Abu]

To force the emperor to get married and then to force basically like an inheritance law change. Right. Like only children by this mother are allowed to take the throne. Like that's a huge change in the royal line and how the throne is inherited considering what we just talked about with Shaddam's early life total, where he had to like battle fucking cousins and second cousins for the throne.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's wild.

[Abu]

And it does make you wonder how the Bene Gesserit got this through. Right? Like how bad were these negotiations from Elroud's side that he just kind of rolled over and accepted all of this? The encyclopedia doesn't explain how, why, where, when about those negotiations. But my sort of personal headcanon is either that Elroud terrible negotiator or the more likely thing, the Bene Gesserit I suspect had some like major dirt on Elroud the ninth. Who doesn't feel like the squeakiest of cleanest emperors anyway.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And I think Elroud basically was like, shit, I don't want to get canceled. I just have to agree to whatever these sisters are forcing me to sign.

[Leo]

They were going to leak the video on x.com the everything out. And he was like, no, don't. Yeah, I'll do whatever you want. I, I'm right there with you. I think that's spot on. I also think that throughout as we're talking about this, I think in the background you just picture how much the Bene Gesserit has influence over every single player. So maybe it was like a three prong approach where not only do you have people from within the house who have already been partnered up with Bene Gesserit's going, yeah, Elroid, you have to change this stuff. And oh, how convenient that this would be a good opportunity to do that or whatever. So then you imagine this huge conspiracy that only works with an institution like the Bene Gesserit in the shadows pulling strings and suddenly monumental changes start to Make a little bit more sense.

[Abu]

Right. It does make you wonder, damn, what did the Bene Gesserit have? How much pull did they have over House Corrino? He has to bend over backwards to do this.

[Leo]

Well, they had thousands of years to get in position.

[Abu]

True. So I want to take a minute here to take a slight detour.

[Leo]

Sure.

[Abu]

Because what's interesting is this marriage to Anuril, there are two versions of it in the encyclopedia. Because when you look under the annual entry in the encyclopedia, the one that talks about her life, it is a completely different story to how she came into contact with Shaddam, how the marriage went, how they raised their children, blah, blah, blah, compared to what we are talking about today in Shaddam's entry, the encyclopedia. So this could be an instance of, you know, contradiction and error within the encyclopedia. Those certainly exist. The encyclopedia was written by like 60 plus people and contains hundreds and hundreds of pages of extended lore. Very difficult to keep all of those ducks in a row. And so maybe this is an instance where there was a mistake. But I have another theory that I'll propose a little bit later that I think will make sense once we explain how this entry is different from Shaddam's.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So to very briefly summarize, the Anuril entry in the encyclopedia, it explains how Anuril was actually sent to House Corrino as young Shaddam's concubine. Just like one of his concubines he gets as the heir to the throne. And instead of having a sexual relationship, the two ended up striking up kind of a very genuine platonic friendship. Now, Elroud, being the fucking creepazoid that he is, suddenly took an interest in this, like, young, hot new concubine that his son just got. Plus the fact that Andriel had special training from the sex planet Gamont.

[Leo]

Oh, my God, Hedonistic planet. Okay. Yeah.

[Abu]

So Elroud suddenly is like, maybe you should sleep with me. Maybe I should test you out for my son first. Like, let's, you know, come over here. And so Shaddam intervenes, basically, and marries his friend to protect her from his gross father's weird advances. And again, the way the entry is written, it doesn't feel like a romantic situation. It literally feels like I'm friends with you and I'm protecting you from this weird political power, like, power differential situation so that the Emperor can't just, like, do what he wants with you right now. Fast forwarding. Once Shaddam takes the throne, as we talked about, Adriel herself is, even though they're married, is not recognized officially as the Empress alongside the new emperor until, like, a decade later, when they have Irulan Corrino, who we know from the books. So that timeline, the marriage, how they met, all of that is dramatically different from what we've just talked about with the whole Bene Gesserit contract that he was forced into. My theory then, is that this entry, the annual entry, is perhaps the official Karino history of Shaddam and Anuril's relationship, rather than the truth of it, which was a bitter and unhappy marriage for the two of them for their whole lives. And it's interesting because when I revisited the annual entry with this theory in mind, suddenly all of it started sounding like state propaganda. Because there are, like, diary entries from Anril's chapter where she's, like, calling Mohiim a bitch. And she's, like, constantly in these entries, shitting on the sisterhood.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

And when you know, obviously you're like, okay, if Shaddam is mad, he was forced into this by a contract with the sisterhood. Of course he would rewrite the history to make, like, Anuril on his side and to make the Bene Gesserit look shitty and frankly, to make his father look shitty and like a sexual predator. Like, all of this is in line with what Shaddam would want to be remembered about his marriage and his rule.

[Leo]

He saved her.

[Abu]

He saved her. He stepped in for his friend.

[Leo]

And he's not claiming something people wouldn't have witnessed, like, if they had, like, a tense marriage. They're not going to be seen in the public eye like the Addams Family couple, right? Like, Gomez and Morticia. They're all over each other. They love each other. Everyone can see they love each other. People see Anaerool and Shaddam. Shaddam's like, no one's going to believe that we loved each other. We were, like, friends. We were really close friends. We were su. And I saved her. I was the hero against my shitty father.

[Abu]

Remember him against.

[Leo]

He was. He sucked. He tried to kill me and he died on his own, unrelated to my. The poisonous drink.

[Abu]

I mean, she actually hated the sisterhood.

[Leo]

That's what I was.

[Abu]

She was telling me all the time how much the sisterhood sucks. I mean, like, ask her, you know.

[Leo]

Yeah, I mean, it would be bad if I said it. You know, I'm not going to call anyone the B word.

[Abu]

No, no, no. I was obligated to. So you get where we're going with this. Theory. I like to think of it in this way, honestly. I don't have anything that's my sort of like headcanon theory. I don't have anything concrete to back that up. And this could simply just be a mistake. Two different people wrote two different entries in the encyclopedia and there's just like an error here within the stories. But it's fun to think of it in this deeper way.

[Leo]

Yeah. And again, I think it's been a little while since we've kind of given our disclaimer about the encyclopedia. For anybody who isn't super familiar with it, it is proposed as an in universe document. Right. This is a collection of articles that are being compiled thousands of years after the events of Dune. And so every article, every entry in the Dune Encyclopedia can be victim to historical inaccuracy. Facts that they get wrong because they just didn't have good sources. Incomplete data. Like there's whole sections that they're kind of speculating about things because they didn't know the answers. Contradicting accounts. Right. Like a real history book, you might say. We're not really sure what happened. These people claim that. These people claim this?

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Like you're saying, Abu. There could be entire entries that are marred by literal propaganda, whether on behalf of the Bene Gesserit or Shaddam. You know, there are whole sections that sound very much like a recruiter handbook to the Bene Gesserit. Meanwhile, there are other ones that say, like, oh, that guy fucking sucked. And you're like, who wrote this article? Who paid for this article to be, you know, researched or whatever. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. This is why it's so much fun, because we can talk about it in these kind of in universe terms and we don't have to go, you know, some author in the 60s fucked up.

[Abu]

I mean, it's such a smart, like, meta framing. Right? Like, if you're going to write fan fiction, pretend it's like it takes place super far in the future and that it's based on historians talking about the universe. Inherently. Historians get shit wrong or records get lost. And like the whole encyclopedia is littered with people talking incorrectly about Paul Atreides because those are the only records left 10,000 years later, which is such a fun way to not only expand a universe and to answer some questions, but to raise other ones within that universe. And this is one of those instances. What was the reality of Shaddam and Anuril's marriage? We're given two versions. Who knows what the reality was? Was It a happy marriage? Was it a friendship? Was it? Who knows?

[Leo]

That's such a good point and for sure love to have those conversations. Now, getting back to Shaddam's life and kind of along the lines of what you were just saying, what was their marriage like? Well, by all the accounts in Shaddam's entry, he hated her. It wasn't good, you know, definitely a bad look for Shaddam to just like hate the woman you're with. But ultimately that's why I think also it gives credence to the headcanon you have where it's like, yeah, then he's like retelling it later and he's like, I don't know, we were friends. But by all accounts he hated his Empress and distracted himself from his personal life by diving just full bodied into court functions. And of course also his court harem, his like, you know, various concubines and layabouts. Now the Dune Encyclopedia says here that the number of Sardaukar commanders as a result of this exploded in the first 16 years of Shaddam's rule, as did the number of people in the royal harem. So the number of people he's banging for fun goes up dramatically in number. But just to confirm, because I was a little unclear here, this means that he was having kids via the concubines and then putting them in positions of like Sardaukar Commanders. Right.

[Abu]

I think that's a fun theory. I don't know that it explicitly says that anywhere. There is no mention ever of Shaddam's other children.

[Leo]

Yeah. It just seemed to imply that he's fucking a lot.

[Abu]

Reading between the lines, he's fucking a lot.

[Leo]

He's fucking a lot. And as a result of him fucking.

[Abu]

A lot, I think it's a great theory. Yeah.

[Leo]

And being frustrated suddenly because I also was like, okay, so why are you talking about suddenly there being a lot of Sardaukar Commanders? New Sardaukar Commanders.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

And one of the possible explanations is he is having kids and sons, no less, but unable to because of his contractual agreement, he can't put them in as his heir. So he's going, okay, I'm going to give you. Also in line with Corrino tradition, I'm going to make these sons of mine the Sardaukar commanders.

[Abu]

It tracks. It totally tracks. I love it. Yeah.

[Leo]

So it doesn't say it explicitly, but I thought kind of reading between the lines, I thought that was pretty clearly implied. But you know, again, incomplete histories. We are Dealing with here.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

So he's just fucking and partying and having a ball, having a blast and basically also getting into political tussles with the Landsraad. Rather than doing his job a little bit, he left most of the kind of nitty gritty of ruling of actually like making decisions for the Imperium to his advisors and the higher ranking Sardaukar officers who basically did a good job, all things considered.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Quote. That the Imperium ran as smoothly as it did in the years preceding the Arrakis revolt is due almost entirely to the efforts of these two groups. End quote.

[Abu]

Nice.

[Leo]

So advisors, high ranking Sardaukar officers, they are the ones basically making sure things are running smoothly.

[Abu]

Yeah. WD40 on those hinges. It's these two groups here.

[Leo]

There you go. And again, I think this is not necessarily a condemnation of him. I think you have your advice.

[Abu]

Oh, you don't?

[Leo]

Well, it's one of those things where, because as we'll talk about, I think he is much more playing to the Bene Gesserit tune than even this entry is talking about. And so I'm like. He is having his attention directed where they want him to be like focusing. Meanwhile, he does have like shit to do and it's getting done by people who presumably he had some part in putting into power or whatever, you know, So I don't know. Food for thought.

[Abu]

Yeah. Just the wording of that quote we read, the tone of it certainly felt condescending toward Shaddam, you know.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Like the fact that the Imperium fucking ran fine is almost basically because of these guys and not the guy in charge was like the tone of that quote. So, yeah, interesting. I got the sense that Shaddam out here is just sort of partying and fucking around rather than doing his job. And it was up to other people to make sure the dominoes didn't fall over and that the house of cards didn't come crashing down.

[Leo]

I still think, and I'll inject some head theory here, I think some headcanon head theory. I'll inject some head canon here.

[Abu]

Head ideas.

[Leo]

Head ideas here.

[Abu]

Head thoughts.

[Leo]

Head thoughts. Leg thoughts. I think when we think about the Bene Gesserit plan that ends with the son of Harkonnen and Atreides on the Imperial throne means they want the House Corrino throne to be destabilized. So what do you do to make sure that happens? You distract him and make sure he's not like a beloved celebrated leader and you make sure the credit's falling to people who can kind of stay in position when the throne is handed over. So again, naturally not in the text, but thinking about it and thinking about the broader plans at play. You say why is he just like fucking around and unhappy in all these things? And the answer to most of this stuff is Benny Jeser plotting. So I don't know, I'm pretty simple. I'm sympathetic to the dude who's like stuck in a marriage he didn't sign up for. He's, he's fucking and having fun and trying to find his kind of agency within a very, very like narrow aisle of what he's allowed to do and what he's not allowed to do.

[Abu]

That that makes sense. I think that's totally valid. Yeah, I'm just, I just fall a little less sympathetic to the rich kid Kennedy who, who got handed his throne.

[Leo]

Man, you're not doing him favors comparing him to Junior. He's got a brain. Listen, it's like a sandworm in his brain. It's fine.

[Abu]

Well, Shaddam's rule does not get any better for him. To your point, he continues to be trapped within the politics of the imperium and the politics of his personal life and it's all making him unhappy. He becomes increasingly depressed and erratic and unhappy with his life and that only gets worse when he, he has kids because turns out Anuril gives him no legitimate heirs to the throne. Yeah, Anuril has five daughters. What are the chances again, to your point, very clearly on Bene Gesserit, Bene Gesserit orders only gives Shaddam five daughters and no legitimate heirs to the throne and then she dies in 10176ag. So he @ least gets out of the marriage, but he's stuck with five daughters, none of which can actually rise to the throne in a legitimate way or carry on his name unless they get married to another great house. That's the, you know, some other great house is going to take his throne. And that's incredibly depressing. To Shaddam, he's effectively the last of a 10,000 year dynasty and the Bene Gesserit have taken that away from him. And so, you know, the increasingly melancholic and unhappy emperor spends more and more time just diving into like plots and schemes and fucking with the Landsraad. The encyclopedia talks about some examples of things he's up to during this time. Some of these things he's doing, all of these are alleged by the way, in 10,100.

[Leo]

Don'T sue us for slander.

[Abu]

This is a fictional character in 10182. He allegedly, uh huh. Intervened in a war of assassins between House Harkonnen and House Kalifi and prevented the assassination of the Baron.

[Leo]

Whoa. Baron Harkonnen alive because of him. Allegedly.

[Abu]

Allegedly.

[Leo]

Allegedly.

[Abu]

The Landsraad never had enough to convict him. Yes, another example of what he's up to. He allegedly kidnapped the twin daughters of some random minor house. And the details are scarce, but apparently the only way this got found out and the daughters got free is because they were. They were able to sneak a message to a diplomat from their house who was visiting Kaiten at one point. Otherwise they had been like kidnapped and kept by Shaddam for whatever reason.

[Leo]

Well, and he kept his hands clean, right? Because it was like an agent of his who brought them as a gift for him. Oh, totally.

[Abu]

Working through proxies.

[Leo]

And then he's going, oh, well, that guy. I don't know what that guy knew. I had no idea who they were. What are you talking about? Can you prove I knew who they were? Oh, you can.

[Abu]

You can't.

[Leo]

Interesting.

[Abu]

All you have to work off of is their one note to this diplomat.

[Leo]

Yeah, I don't know. Seems sketch. Seems sketch.

[Abu]

Not enough. You can't get me in court, bitch.

[Leo]

If the glove fits, don't acquit. I don't know the actual quote.

[Abu]

Oh God, that's so funny. So, yeah, again, all of these are alleged things he was up to. Very obviously things he was up to, but nobody was ever actually able to get him in the court of law, which I found incredibly funny. You know, this guy's like up to hijinks and I can't help but be like, dude, just pass some tax laws, sign some things as emperor, and stop kidnapping women. What are you doing?

[Leo]

It's my favorite. I love it. It's so much.

[Abu]

It's hilarious. I mean, like, again, the encyclopedia is scarce on details because these are just like historical records that fictional historians within the universe are referencing. So there's not details because he was never actually convicted for any of these things. And to your point earlier, God, I would love to read about the early rule of Shaddam IV Korino in a book that talk in detail about these things because I'm sure there's motivations. You know, he's not a dumb 1000%. He's not just doing this just for fun and to be crazy. He's not like a crazy emperor. He's clearly doing this for some motivation. Or because he's being manipulated in some way. And it would be very juicy to fill out those details and learn about the why of it all.

[Leo]

Dude, what I would love is two books covering the same thing. And it's like. And I've talked about this so many times on the goddamn show, but Ender's Game, Ender's Shadow. I would love to have the book detailing Shaddam, thinking about why he's doing this, thinking about all these things, but never really being 100% sure and just being like, well, this advisor said I should and kind of like being pushed along by the forces that be. And then the other book is following Fenring in the shadows, doing all of the manipulating, getting all of the contracts, telling that court aide to say this and this person to say, like, I want to see that. Fucking. That would be so cool. Because I think it's so notable that Fenring's name disappears from this entry, basically. But we also see that he only fucking survived and became the Emperor because of Fenring basically giving him advice and being there for him as an advisor, as a friend. We know Fenring's at his hip this whole time, and yet we don't see his name anywhere here. So I like him saving Baron Harkonnen. I'm like Bene Gesserit a thousand percent. That is the Bene Gesserit getting involved. Because if something happened to the head of House Harkonnen, that fucks up the Bene Gesserit breeding program. So, of course Shaddam had to set in and intervene. I think you can see most of what he's doing. Kidnapping random women as unnecessary side quests. He's ignoring the main plot. He's like, I want to make this game last as long as possible. But I'm just. This whole time, like you're saying, I'm sure he has reasons. I'm sure there's reasons that, like, Fenring's going, we need those two in captivity for X, Y and Z. Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe Shaddam doesn't even know. It's so interesting. I love the untold story here. And I would also love a book, just Deep Healing or. Yeah. Treat Me Too.

[Abu]

There's a lot unsaid between the lines of this Dune encyclopedia entry and a lot implied to your point, about the birse eggs and the illegitimate children he's very likely having.

[Leo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

To the double annual story of the marriage to all these high quote unquote hijinks. He's. He's up to that are kind of written as jokes in the encyclopedia. They're like, yeah, totally. Then he, like, stole these women for some reason.

[Leo]

Oh, that's crazy. Yeah.

[Abu]

Which of course is like, come on, there's way more to it than that. And again, we talked about he's not the most brilliant, iconic, legendary emperor ever, but he's also not stupid or crazy. He's a good emperor and he's a smart guy. And so obviously there's much more story here that's not said and that's almost more interesting than what is said.

[Leo]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's so cool. I love this stuff.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Well, we do have to touch, of course. On the end of Shaddam iv.

[Abu]

That's right.

[Leo]

Long story short, he is defeated by Paul Atreides. Pasty kid who moved from out of town, defeats him. He is, as we see at the end of Dune, he is sent into forced exile on Seleucus Secundus, accompanied by his daughters, the Fenrings, and all of his court attendants. Now in exile, Shaddam eventually died at age 68. Wow, that's young. And he is a bitter and angry old man. Just so mad. The Dune encyclopedia explains that until his death in 10,202, he exhibited such an aversion for the name of Paul Atreides that even his letters from Princess Irulan were screened on arrival by Count Fenring.

[Abu]

Oh, my God.

[Leo]

And all references to the new emperor carefully deleted. End quote. And hilariously, that is the end of Shaddam's entry as well. There's nothing else after that. So literally, his. The end of this man's encyclopedia entry is this petty bitterness over the kid who rose to power and dethroned him and took over.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's a little bit sad when you think about it, right?

[Leo]

Totally.

[Abu]

We just covered Dune prophecy. And a minor sort of non spoiler for that show is that the emperor is manipulated his entire life by the sisterhood. Yeah, Shaddam's given the same energy.

[Leo]

Yeah, totally.

[Abu]

Whether it's the sisterhood, whether it's Count Fenring, whether it's like the legitimate politics of the Imperium constantly pulling him left, right up, down. This guy clearly had very little agency over his own life, over his marriage, over his, what kids he had, over how much political power he could actually wield. He was fucking locked into contracts because of his dad. You know, like all of these life choices were made for the most powerful person in the galaxy, which is sort of a grand irony of Shaddam's Life. And I think ultimately what ended his life, what kind of brought a fitting end to a life lived this way was those very same plots and schemes.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Perpetrated by him, perpetrated by others. All of those kind of culminated into one final ploy that we saw play out in the first Dune book. That got his ass in the end. It backfired in a spectacular way. And fucking Paul Atreides took his sneakers.

[Leo]

Yeah. Well, dear listener, that is our episode talking about Shaddam iv. Hopefully you enjoyed it. Before we let you go, we want to remind you of some ways to support us and what we do here at Gom Jabbar and a way to keep in touch with us. And of course, the two best ways to support us. One is to become a patron over at patreon.com gomjabbar and two is to get yourself some Dune themed swag from our merchandise store. Those links are in our show notes, so check them out. Support us if you can.

[Abu]

And of course, we love to hear from you. So email us gomjabarpodcastmail.com, send us your thoughts, send us your questions, send us what other characters you would love. Deep dives on. Yes, we have gotten all your requests for those chapter House and heretics of Dune characters. We'll get to them. We got to get through the books first.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Yes, we also want to do a Miles tag episode. Yes, we also want to do a Darwee oh trade episode. We'll get to it. But let us know what characters you would love to get Deep dives like this one on. Come to our podcastmail.com.

[Leo]

Yeah, what do you think House Khalifi did? Why do you think those two needed to be kidnapped? I'd be curious.

[Abu]

Yeah, send us your theories about what why Shadam is plotting.

[Leo]

Yeah, do it.

[Abu]

Allegedly. Allegedly.

[Leo]

Allegedly. Allegedly. Do it. Write us an email. Allegedly. Don't write us an email, but bounce it a few times so we can't trace it back. You know, just allegedly.

[Abu]

That's right. That's right. Don't get us. Don't get us in trouble in the court of law. Play this like Shaddam would.

[Leo]

Yeah. Well, friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muadib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And be sure to check out the other shows on the Lore Party podcast network. On Lore Party, you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Lore Underscore party. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Path.