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From long lost Viking ships and kings buried in unexpected places to tales of murder, power, faith, and the lives of ordinary people across medieval Europe and beyond. Join me, Matt Lewis, Dr. Elena Jarninger, and some of the world's leading historians as we bring history's most fascinating stories to life. Only on History Hit with your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit history hit.com subscribe. Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
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And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball.
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But you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
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B
That's right. Hey hey.
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So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
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And along the way we'll do character
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deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.
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Spoiler alert.
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He'll be wrong.
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News flash. I'm never wrong.
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Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
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a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval From History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research from the Vikings to The printing press. From kings to popes to the Crusades, we cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots and murders, to find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here, find out who we really were with. Gone Medieval. Everyone loves a plucky underdog. And in 1302, what unfolded on the marshy river plains before the Flemish city of Courtrai was certainly a clash of David and Goliath. On one riverbank stood a motley force of Flemish craftsmen, their hands worn by years spent on looms and linen dye vats. On the other, the flower of French chivalry. Armoured knights mounted on mighty war horses, backed by the military power of the most formidable kingdom in Western Europe. The outcome seemed a foregone conclusion. Medieval warfare was, after all, the age of the night. What chance did a collection of Flemish part timers have against a force that had crossed swords with armies from Scotland to Arabia? By sunset, the answer was clear. The French army had been shattered. So many golden spurs were stripped from the bodies of the fallen knights that the battle would forever be remembered as the Battle of the Golden Spurs. One astonished contemporary writing in the annals of Ghent could scarcely believe what he'd witnessed. And so, by the disposition of God, who orders all things, the art of war, the flower of knighthood, with horses and chargers of their foes finest, fell before weavers, fullers and the common folk and foot soldiers of Flanders. The beauty and strength of that great army was turned into a dung pit, and the glory of the French made dung and worms. I'm Matt Lewis and this is Gone Medieval. Today we're exploring one of the most extraordinary military upsets of the Middle Ages. How did a force of Flemish townsmen defeat the greatest cavalry army in Western Europe? What drove this conflict between Flanders and France? And did the Battle of the golden spurs mark a meaningful turning point in the history of medieval warfare and the wider Middle Ages? To help me answer those questions, I'm joined by Danielle Cybulsky, writer, historian and host of the medieval podcast. Danielle, welcome back to Gone Medieval. Long time no speak.
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B
Yes, we were just talking. It's been a long time and it's so good to see your face. Thanks for having me on.
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A
Yeah, it's great to have you back on as well. And I think, well, we're going to talk about something that people may not know too much about, may have heard a name of, but not understood all of the context and the background. But we're going to get right into the depths of the Battle of the golden spurs, which just sounds cool, doesn't it, to start off with?
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B
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, you couldn't have named it better. It just really gets you right in the action right away.
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A
So before we get into the weeds of this, can you give us, like, a bit of an overview kind of when and where are we with the battle of the Golden Spurs?
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B
Yes. And it's important that we get into that stuff because this requires a bunch of context. And so I'll leave you, Matt, to ask me what you need clarified as we go through. But we're talking about 1302, so the beginning of the 14th century, also known as the best century, and we're talking about Flanders.
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A
Unless you lived in it, it's not great if you lived in it.
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B
No, but it's great for me to look at. Absolutely love this century and looking at all of the cool things that happened in it. But, yeah, I wouldn't want to be on the battlefield at Golden Spurs. But we're talking about Flanders, and Flanders tends to be forgotten in these wide, sweeping looks at history that people tend to do. And actually, Flanders is so pivotal to all of the stuff that's happening sort of going into the 14th century and longer. So Flanders is a county, and this is really important. It's like Gascony, which is also going to be important in a second, which means it's ruled by account, under the supervision of the king. At this time, it's Philip the Fair, Philip IV of France. And so Flanders is kind of independent in that the people of Flanders look to the count when they need to get anything from their lords. And Philip really wants more control over Flanders. And so he's working towards this. And he's just. Just started to get control over Flanders at this time. And nobody there likes that too much. That's where we're starting.
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A
And this is the. The point where France is trying to sort of tighten its control of all of those various places, and all of those various places are still trying to maintain the illusion of their own independence. So there's. There's, you know, there's a lot of tension between the. The crown and all of the. The counts and the various dukes around France at this point, isn't there?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. So Philip is one of these kings that really wants to go back to the time, especially of Charlemagne, but also Philip, august justice. He wants to bring France under one umbrella, that's his umbrella, so that he could directly tax his counties, or he could directly ask for soldiers from his counties. Right now, it's kind of ambiguous. It really sort of depends sort of place to place. And he doesn't want to have these counts in between him and his people. And so, like I said, he's just starting to tighten control over Flanders, and this is not what the Flemings want.
- [07:46]
A
Before we take a step back to get ourselves a little bit of context, I wonder if you could talk us through the kind of sources that are available for this battle as well, because we've got kind of David and Goliath story going on, so I'm quite interested in whether we get the same version of events from both sides.
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B
We get a similar version from both sides, and it always depends on who. Who you're reading. The person who is the victor is always going to have a better view of this. And it's one of these battles where it's not going to be too much of a spoiler, because people are going to find out about this in just a second. But it goes badly for the French, let's say, at this point. And so the French are looking at this battle in sort of bewilderment, like, how could this have gone so wrong? And then, of course, on the side you have this being a great victory that people are still pretty excited about to this day.
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A
And do we have lots of chronicles that talk about the battle? Does it cause kind of concern and excitement on both sides? So there's plenty of people writing about it, or do we have a fairly narrow collection of sources to look at?
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B
It gets noticed really widely because it's such a surprise. And so I think people are reading about it sort of across Europe because it's one of these things that's headline news because it should never have gone the way that it went. So there are more sources about it than maybe other things. And this is also why the 14th century is so great. You have more sources than you do, you know, in other time periods. Which is why I stay away from the Vikings. Right. There's no sources there in the 14th century. We fortunately have some sources.
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A
So let's go back and collect a bit of context before we get to this battle. Is it fair to start perhaps in 1297? There's a big rebellion in Flanders at that point. Is that a good place for us to start looking at this?
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B
Yes. In fact, we might go back just a few more years. So we talked about Flanders being a county, Gascony being a county, and there is this big blow up between England and France, and that comes up over Philip confiscating Gascony from the English he's not really supposed to do this. He has an excuse for it, which we could get into in a minute if you'd like. But basically, Philip confiscates Gascony from the English, and this really starts to. Well, it starts an entire war that nobody really wanted, except maybe Philip. And in the middle of all of this, you also have England's war with Scotland, which is going on to the north. And then you have Flanders, which is in the mix, also rebelling a little bit against France. But when we come to 1297, this is when Flanders really starts to tighten its alliance with England, in part because Philip is being a little bit pushy, but in part because England and Flanders are really great trade partners. So England provides a lot of wool. This is the major export for England. As I'm sure a lot of your podcast listeners already know, England is an amazing wool exporter, and that wool tends to go to Flanders, and Flanders turns it into cloth. Wool, cloth, which is what everybody is using all over the place. And what makes Flanders so great for this is its terrain. It's very wet there, which means there's lots of rivers and streams, which is what you need to create textiles. So England and Flanders have always been really tight, even though they've had their differences. And so it makes a lot of sense for England and Flanders to stay tight at this critical moment. So the Count of Flanders, named Guy, he makes a deal with Edward the First of England that they are going to work together against the French, which sounds really great because, you know, they're good partners together. It gives Edward a foothold on the continent to fight the French King. This sounds really good, except for the fact that we have the Battle of Stirling Bridge at the beginning of the fall of 1297, and that is a bad moment for the English. And so Edward has to sort of rethink things. He can't support the Count of Flanders the way he wants to, and so he's forced to come to an agreement with the French king, which settles everything down. So they make this treaty, that is a pretty famous one, because Philip's sister becomes Queen of England, Margaret marries Edward I, and Philip's daughter Isabella is betrothed to Edward ii, the future Edward ii. So this is a really big moment, really big treaty. When the two kings make this treaty, they forget about their allies. So France is like, I'm not going to help Scotland anymore. And England's like, I'm not going to help Flanders anymore. And so this is the opening for Philip to have more control over Flanders and he starts to tighten that grip. So 1297 is an important moment for context, because basically Flanders gets sold out and they're very sore about this, as they should be.
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A
I don't blame them. And, I mean, it doesn't go well for Scotland either, does it? You know, this is the point at which Edward Wales his way into Scotland as well. So both of their main allies have sort of been cut loose and left to fend for themselves. And does all of that kind of context around Flanders relationship with England, particularly around trade, does that help us understand why Philip is so keen to get a handle on it? Presumably it's a bit of an economic powerhouse and it would be hugely beneficial to Philip to have control of that himself.
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B
Yes, yes, absolutely. So Flanders is extremely wealthy because of this trade, as you're saying. And it's interesting because what makes it so wealthy is those trade guilds, it is the commerce that's happening there. And unfortunately for Philip, this is the part that he really doesn't understand. Joseph Strayer has written a lot about Philip the Fair, and he really gets at this. Philip does not understand Flanders. The trade there is what makes them so strong. And it's what's going to come back and bite Philip later. Because you have these trade guilds who have this real sense of brotherhood, fraternity, and they're also really scrappy. They're used to fighting each other, they're used to fighting other guilds, they're used to fighting other towns. And so they have this sort of like, band of brothers type culture there that Philip does not understand. He wants the money from them, but he doesn't understand them at all. And maybe this is a good moment to say that the. The Flemings have a reason for not really feeling French. And one of them is their culture and the other is their language. They're not really French. You have a bunch of French nobility who are trying to take charge of everything and have always been in places of power. But the people that are speaking Flemish, their culture is totally different. So they don't really feel French enough to have any loyalty to Philip. And this, again, is where some trouble really starts.
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A
Yeah. I was going to ask what is kind of driving the Flemish desire to remain separate from the French Crown. But it sounds as much as a proud trading thing. It's also a cultural thing that they just don't identify themselves as French. So why would they want to be under the French king?
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B
Yeah, especially if they feel like he's using them for things like taxes when they have A better relationship, as you're saying, with England. So, you know, they probably just want to be independent, want to be left alone, want to be out from under the control of people who are going to tax them. And again, Joseph Strayer says something that's really important here, which is a trade like the wool trade, involves a lot of cash flow. So you buy your wool and you pay your apprentices, and at that moment you're out that cash. Right. And you haven't created your textiles yet, so you're. You're balancing until you can feel. Create the textiles and then sell the textiles. So if you start taking cash out of that economy, it becomes really unstable. And so they really want to be in their own control so that they can feel a little bit safer economically. And again, it makes more sense to have this relationship with England than it does with France. But you can't tell Philip that. You can't tell Philip much, really.
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A
No. And it doesn't help if Philip, as you say, Philip, doesn't understand all of that. So he doesn't understand the issue with taking a whole load of money out. He just sees a bit of a cash cow, a pinata that he can keep hitting. And the Flemish are like, no, it doesn't work that way, Philip.
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B
Yeah, exactly. You really need to understand the culture, to understand the people and to understand why they are not going to put. Be pushed around and why are they going to draw a line in the sand, which is what they do.
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A
Yeah, I'm starting to like them already.
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B
So they're likable. They're really likable. Yeah.
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A
And does that structure of all of these guilds, which. Which kind of creates, you know, saying middle class is anachronistic, but a kind of middle layer of society that sits below the nobility but perhaps above the peasants. Does that help them be rebellious? You know, they've got this slightly more powerful element to them. Are the merchants part of the rebellion? Are they driving the rebellion?
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B
Yes, this is really a rebellion that is about the common people. And as you're saying, you have people who are within the trades, and of course, there's a spectrum of wealth within that.
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A
Right.
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B
Are you at the top of the guild or at the bottom of the guild? But when you have a structure, like a guild structure, it is very cohesive in that you have masters and you have apprentices. So even though, like, the apprentices are not making as much, and they might be what we would call closer to, like, peasants, you have this loyalty to each other because of the way that the structure is built. Right. So if you are. Basically, it's like a team thing, right, or like a business thing, you can have infighting amongst each other, but if someone comes at you from outside, that's when you cohere, Right. That's when you get together. And so this. This camaraderie, this loyalty, I think it bridges those economics when it comes to that spectrum of, like, everybody below the nobility, if you know what I'm saying. So you have that French nobility on the top. They are more loyal to the king because that works for them, but underneath it, I think it becomes less about, like, where you are in society and who you identify as. Like, we are. We are Flemish, we are from this town, we are in this guild. And sort of that. That identity, I think, is really what solidifies them as a people and as a group that's going to be able to withstand a lot of pressure because of that sort of identity that they have.
- [17:34]
A
Yeah. And it's interesting if we've got an ability that is primarily French and willing to be aligned with the French crown, but it sounds like we've got a count who is more on the side of his merchant guilds and things like that and wants to maintain his independence. So you've got this kind of right at the top is kind of on the rebel side, this layer. Next one down is willing to be loyal to the French crown. And then everyone underneath that is more on the rebel side, too. It's a weird sandwich of the French. Bit of the nobility, isn't there?
- [18:03]
B
Well, Guy, or Guy of Flanders, he's always under pressure because he knows that he does better if he pleases his own people, the people of Flanders. He's also under pressure from the French king. And then, you know, he. He thought he was friends with the English king. That didn't go so where. But by the time we come to the Battle of the golden spurs, he's out of the picture. He's under Philip's control, but his son and his grandson are going to be important and they are firmly on the side with the rebels. So I suspect they firmly think of themselves as being from Flanders more than being, you know, nobility that could trace its way back for their two friends. So Guy is out of the picture for this battle, but his family is very much in the picture.
- [18:46]
A
And what is then the immediate kind of context for the Battle of the Golden Spurs? We're also. We're used to battles being named after the place where they take place. And Battle of the golden spurs sounds a Little bit like a Wild west thing in America or something. Presumably it doesn't happen in a place called Golden Spurs. So whereabouts are we and how have we arrived at a position where there's two armies there?
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B
Well, there is a lead up that is very important. Again, we have so much context going into this battle, and it is important to lay that groundwork. So we have a smaller rebellion in Bruges. So we have this. This leader called Peter, Peter the King, and he's starting to stir things up in Bruges. And so Philip has to send people to settle this all down. And he sends a guy called Jacques de Cotillon. So he. He sends people to Bruges and they settle things down by sending the rebels out of the town. And Jacques seems to think that everything is fine at this point, so he just kind of relaxes in the town. And we're talking May 18, 1302. And this is one of those moments that goes down in history because the French are gently sleeping in their beds when the gates are open to the rebels and the rebels come in and they slaughter the French. This is called the Matins of Bruges. They say that around 300 French are killed. And it has a sort of mystique around it where they say that the French, who could not pronounce a certain phrase, which is shield and friend, if they could not pronounce it as if they are native to Flanders, then they are killed. And so this. This might be sort of a little bit of gilding of the lily here in that there is something very similar that happens about 20 years before this, called the Sicilian Vespers, where again, the French are sort of massacred and they have to say a certain word, and if they don't say it right and Sicilian with a Sicilian accent, then they are murdered. So we don't know for sure how much of this legendary stuff is true, but we do know that there was a massacre in Bruges, that the French were slaughtered sort of indiscriminately there. And the governor there, Jacques, he leaves, he escapes. But pretty much all the other French people in the town are killed. And so this is a flashpoint. The Matins of Bruges. It's called the Matins because of the. The holy hours. So it's happening in the middle of the night, early morning. So it's a flashpoint because the French king has to do something about this. His people are being killed in Flanders. He needs to send troops. And, of course, it's a flashpoint for the Flemings. Because they know that it's now or never. Right? The French King is coming, they're going to need to band together and this is happening in May of 1302. And so within two months, the French are gathering troops, the Flemings are coming together and they're starting to build power, they're starting to cause more rebellion in Flanders. And it all comes to a point at the city of Courtrai, which is where we have the Battle of the Golden Spurs. So it's not a place called golden spurs, it's a place called Courtrai. And this is where it all happens. The Flemings are about to take the town, or they're trying to take the town of Courtrai. There is a French garrison that's trying to hold out and the French army is coming to relieve them. And that's where this battle begins.
- [22:06]
A
Again, we're getting into the David and Goliath bit here, aren't we? Because we've got some fairly unmatched sides here. So can we talk a little bit about how they're armed and armoured? How do the French turn up?
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B
Well, we. We talked a little bit before about the Flemings being scrappy, so I can't wait to tell you what they are like. But the French are coming up like they always do. So the French are very much a chivalric culture at this time. They love heavy cavalry. They have also brought in some crossbowmen from Italy to swell their ranks, but they're feeling pretty confident. It has been only two months since the Matins of Bruges. So, you know, they. They don't have a huge army, but they have a significant army. Much of it is cavalry. You have crossbowmen and then you have infantry. But this is the flower of French chivalry, as they say, right? These are the top nobles. The. The Queen's uncle's there in the form of Jacques de Chatillon. Then you have Robert of Artois, who's the cousin of the king, who's in charge of this French army. So it is a chivalric army with all that heavy cav. When you're picturing French knights, this is what you're picturing. On the other side, you have more Flemings than you do French, but they are not exactly ragtag because their money in Flanders allows them to get some pretty good gear. But they are definitely townspeople, guilds, people. And because they're scrappy, they have a lot of weapons that they. They use when they're doing their infighting. So they've prepared themselves for the sort of scrapping that they might do between towns, between guilds. But they're definitely dressed the way the French are, with this heavy chain mail with this heavy plate. They are wearing leather, they're probably wearing some chain, they're wearing helmets. And then they are armed with things like axes, maybe some swords. We have a couple of nobles in there, but it's mostly townspeople. They also have a weapon that is very specific to Flanders, which is called the Golden Dag, which means good day. So it's a bit. It's a bit of black humor there. It is a long club, long heavy club with a spike at the end. So it's somewhere between a club and a spear. And it is an ugly weapon. If you look it up online, you can see just how dangerous these things are. So they are also armed with this characteristic Flemish weapon, which is the Golden Dag. And so they have greater numbers, but they certainly have less experience in warfare. Their gear is not as good as the French gear. And then the French are the people who have been training since they were children to be knights. And so it is. This is if people are starting to pick to that David and Goliath moment, that's what we're looking at.
- [24:46]
A
And this is very much still the time when heavy cavalry is still king of the battlefield, isn't it? Everybody fears heavy cavalry. No one is really good at fending off heavy cavalry. Heavy cavalry will tend to win you a battle still.
- [24:59]
B
Yes, absolutely. And so it's got to be really terrifying to be one of the Flemings who was there outside the town, looking at this heavy cavalry, because as you're saying, this is. This is the battle formation, this is what people do. It's not only intimidating, but it's very effective, because if you have a wide terrain, those horses can just ride over infantry. And so this is actually a critical moment, because we're going to talk about strategy, I'm sure, in just a second we're going to talk about terrain. And this is really a battle in which people start to learn about how to use terrain better and how to use infantry tactics better when they're against heavy cavalry. Because, yeah, here you are, you're on foot, but looking at this big armoured horse, it is a terrifying moment.
- [25:45]
A
Yeah, yeah. And if that Flemish force as well you mentioned, they were sort of laying siege to the town, so they're going to be sandwiched between a French garrison inside the town's walls and then a French army coming to get them. That sounds like a really vulnerable position. What are they able to do to make their position better.
- [26:02]
B
Yes, they do everything right. And so I mentioned a few minutes ago that Flanders, it's very wet, which is perfect for weaving and perfect for textile production. And it's also perfect if you are on foot against heavy cavalry. So there is a river that goes behind Caudrais, and they put their backs to the river and they put their backs to the town, not right against the wall. They do have some people who are close to the wall because there is that garrison inside. They have to keep an eye on that. But most of them are arranged in sort of a semicircle between two creeks and a river and then with a castle at their back, which is the best anyone could possibly have done. It's incredibly clever and it is the secret to their success. So John Friends, who's done a lot of work on warfare in France, he estimates that we're looking at a Flemish front line of about a kilometer long in that sort of semicircle between these waterways. I think he calls it a watery fortress, which I love, about 18 deep. So if you're picturing it, you have eight Flemings in a row and they are stretching across a kilometer in a semicircle with their backs to the river, their backs to the town, and in front of them, two smaller creeks, and then on the other side of that, you have the French cavalry. So setting this up, I even, like, printed out a map to make sure I had this perfect for you map, because the actual terrain is what makes a huge difference to this. And. And it's one that, interestingly, you would think that people would have thought more carefully about it before they attacked, before the French attack. Because this same sort of tactic of using marsh, using water to defeat a greater enemy, especially a heavy cavalry, is used at the Battle of Stirling Bridge only five years before. But, you know, maybe those people were not there at the time or they didn't get the letters, they didn't get the memo, because, yeah, you're going to use water against heavy cavalry. It is the smartest thing to do and it proves. Proves very effective.
- [27:58]
A
Yeah. And I guess we've still got another century and more of a kind of French arrogance about their military ability, haven't we? They tend to be hugely confident in these situations and assume that they can pile in with the heavy cavalry and win. Is that. Do we see them behaving that way here? Are they a little bit reckless?
- [28:16]
B
It's hard to know if they're reckless. There's a lot of pressure to win this. There's a lot of pressure because they need to put this rebellion down before it gets any bigger. There's also sort of oversight from the French king right now. One of his favorites, this, this lawyer called Pierre Flotte, is there. He. If people listen to my series, the Iron King, he's very important. And so there might be a lot of pressure on Robert of Artois, who's commanding the French here, because it's being watched by everyone. But there is also one thing that should be mentioned here, is that the French confidence in their heavy cavalry, it is well earned and it does work and it should work. And so it's not coming out of nowhere. Like it's not huge ego here. There is ego, and I'm going to get to that in a second. But. But that reputation for being incredible knights for victory over smaller people, for sure, it is well earned because it's true, it should work. And heavy cavalry is very effective. So they're leaning on something, a tactic that does work. Even though we saw it not work at the Battle of Stirling Bridge, generally it does work. So, you know, there's a good reason that they're feeling confident. The other thing that's important is that it is a chivalric culture that privileges knighthood. So there's actual treatises that are saying knights are knights because they're better than everybody else, they're smarter than everybody else, they are more generous than everyone else, they're better fighters. Like everything in the culture is saying you are the best. And in part, like their tactics are the best, but also everything in culture is telling them they're the best. So there's a point at which I think they are drinking the Kool Aid and that they think that they are invincible, in part because that's been shown and in part because everything in. In their culture is telling them that they're amazing, so they believe it. And the third thing that I think is important is we do have a quote from Robert of Artois. Again, not sure if this actually comes directly from his mouth or it's part of the legend later, but. But he's said to have said that a hundred knights are better than a thousand infantry, a thousand regular people. And this sort of thinking is essential if you're going to go into battle, because you have to believe in yourself. If you don't think you're going to win, you have no place on a battlefield, because if you don't think you're going to win, you're going to lose. And so it's very important, I think these three things work together. One is that there is experience there that this is going to work. Two is that there is a chivalric culture saying you're amazing. And three is that you must believe you're going to win or you should not be on the battlefield in the first place. And this is wisdom that goes way back to the ancient world. So I don't think we should blame them too much for being confident there in that. Like you need to be confident in a battle situation.
- [31:10]
A
Yeah, I kind of hope Robert of Artois did say that, just so you can imagine his face a little bit later on. This episode is sponsored by Ruler. Sometimes the hardest part about getting support is just getting started. When life feels heavy. Burnout, anxiety, a breakup, all of it. Finding a therapist who actually takes your insurance can feel like one more thing to juggle. That's where Ruler comes in. Ruler is a healthcare company that helps you find licensed therapists and psychiatrists who actually accept insurance. With an average copay of about $15 per session and sometimes as little as nothing, depending on your plan. What I like is that Ruler feels practical without feeling cold. It helps you find someone based on your goals, preferences and needs. So it's not just about getting care quickly, it's about getting care that actually feels right. And with appointments available as soon as tomorrow, it removes some of that awful waiting room feeling before you even start. Thousands of people are already using Ruler to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Ruler patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialise in you@ruler.com medieval that's ruler.com medieval r u l a.com.
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- [34:46]
A
So we've got this stage kind of perfectly set. We've got a larger but inexperienced Flemish force in a really good defensive position. We've got the flower of French knighthood lined up, ready to attack. I mean, on the face of it, you've got to be picking the French to win this, despite having slightly lower numbers. So how, how does the battle play out? Is there kind of a pivotal moment? Is there a mistake that someone makes?
- [35:14]
B
Well, the mistake is to engage on that terrain, really. And we do know that some of the French were not sure that this is a good idea. In fact, there's a really great book by Jan F. Verbruggen, who talks about this hesitation in some of the French military leaders who are saying the best way to do this is to pull the Flemings out. If we don't pull them out, then we are going directly into a place that's like, that's marshy, where they have their backs to the wall. It is not ideal, but they decide they're going to go for it anyway. I should mention that the Flemings have also spent their time waiting for the French army by digging ditches into this marshy area, covering it with. With bushes. Although the French know what this is, they know that they're trenches, but they built these trenches. They've got a whole bunch of spears that they're going to stick into the ground here. And so they've made their. Their position even better. So what the French do first is they. They try to sort of harry the Flemings by shooting their crossbows. They have these Italian crossbowmen, they're starting to shoot and they're starting to the. The aim again, this is basically based on Jan Verbruggen's work, is that they're trying to push the Flemings close enough to the castle, close enough to the river that the French cavalry could cross these little streams and then do their charges. So when they charge, when a cavalry charge happens, it happens not just once it happens especially once the first time, the big moment. But then if it's not successful, you know, you regroup and you come back. And so they're trying to push the Flemings back and they think that they've done it. It enough or they figure they've done it enough, that there's enough space perhaps on the other side of these little streams that they should just go for it. So after they, they shoot their volley of crossbows, which is returned by the Flemings, they who are. For people who want to picture this, they're also hiding behind these very big shields so that they could shoot and hide when they're trying to reload. So the Flemings have been pushed back a little bit. So then Robert of Artois says, okay, clear out, infantry. We're going to do our heavy cavalry charts. And they try it and it really fails. And it feels because of all this water, all of this marsh, so they can't get up the speed that they need. You can't just take a horse and walk it over a person, right? Like it's not going to work. You need to have a whole bunch of speed behind you so that you can go into the line, hopefully push the line back and make it, make it further. And so they don't have enough speed. They're dealing with the mud, they're dealing with the stream, they're dealing with, with the ditches. And they can't, they actually don't have enough room to turn around and try this again. So they, they make inroads in the center, but they don't make inroads anywhere else. And once they stop, they get sort of halted in their tracks. They get pulled from their horses and they get beaten to death or they get drowned in the mud. A lot of people at this battle were drowned because, you know, once you fall down and you get pushed into the mud, mud, people standing on top of you can't get up. So there's a lot of people that drowned during this battle. So the mistake really was the engagement here. But they, once they were engaged, there was nothing else to be done. And what they found was that the Flemings were so tight in their formation that they couldn't really get through very well with their horses. The Flemings had also done, where people have seen Braveheart, they'd stuck the butts of their spears into the ground. The horses are getting impaled. And of course, once the knights are falling off, you have to have a lot, because they have greater numbers, a lot of Flemings that are attacking each night. As they fall down, you do have a bit of an attempt to help from the garrison, but they've planned for that. And so that gets repelled very easily. So basically what happens is that these knights can't turn around and they're getting beaten to death and they're falling into the mud. And that's really how this entire battle goes. They, they throw a whole bunch of cavalry charges at the Flemings. They can't really penetrate them. And then the rear guard of the French army starts to run. And once the Flemings have taken care of the front of the French, then they chase them down for kilometers. There's one last thing that I think is hugely important. We were talking about mindset, and there is this battle manual that everybody reads at this time called De Re Militari by Vegetius. And he says very specifically that you should never, never fight an enemy that has their backs to the wall. Not literally, but figuratively. If they have nowhere else to go, they're going to fight until the death. And they're going to fight so savagely that, you know, they can obliterate a bigger army, a better army. You should never, never do this. And so the French try it and it goes so badly that they die in great numbers. And so this is called the Battle of the golden spurs because once the French knights are obliterated, the Flemings go and they, they loot the cor. And they take the spurs off of these knights. Knights are given spurs on the day of their knighthood, so these are a symbol of their knighthood. So not only are the Flemings overjoyed that they've won, that they've survived, but also they know that they're townspeople and they just, they just won against all of these knights. So the, they take the spurs. They're said to be over 500 pairs of spurs that they take from these bodies and they bring them to the cathedral and they hang them up there. And this is why it's called the Battle of the golden spurs, because it is symbolic not only of the Fleming's victory, but of this David and Goliath story. That no one can believe. It's amazing.
- [40:59]
A
It's an incredible story. And I love the idea that they go around and collect all the spurs and, you know, hang them up just to embarrass the French king. Perfect.
- [41:06]
B
Yes.
- [41:06]
A
I mean, Robert V Artois is amongst the dead as well, isn't he? Yes, In a manner that is not dissimilar to his own father's death as well.
- [41:15]
B
Yeah. This is very embarrassing. I mean, if he was alive, he'd be embarrassed. He does not make it out. And Jacques de Chatillon doesn't make it out. Pierre Flotte doesn't make it, make it, make it out. Basically, all of the nobles that show up there, they die. And this is another thing that I think probably had something to do with the Fleming success and that we talked about a culture of chivalry a second ago. When a knight goes into battle, he's expecting to be ransomed, he is expecting he might die. But at this time, people are still being ransomed. Things change definitely in a century or so, you know, the Battle of Agincourt, people are killed instead of being ransomed, and that is another shock. But here the Flemings are, first of all, very angry, and secondly, they can't afford to leave these French nobles alive and they don't really feel that the ransom is worth it. So when these French knights are being pulled from their horses, they're seeing their friends being pulled from their horses and they're seeing them being killed, not ransomed. And so I think this is another moment where it may have been slightly unexpected and that, that might have really had something to do with the psychology of battle, because, you know, battles are fought by humans. And so when we think about the psychology involved, I think that it's a very important element of battle. It's beyond just strategy. There is a mental, a mental component to it that can't be forgotten.
- [42:35]
A
Yeah. Which again, goes back to that. What you were talking about is instilled in all of these French knights about being trained for this and being better than everybody else and superior. You, you know, this is still a point in which, as you say, a medieval knight might have a chance of dying in a battle, but that's going to be an accident rather than a deliberate effort to kill him normally, because he's worth a bucket load of money if you, if you capture him and ransom him. So they're going in there with a certain degree of confidence that they're, if they get killed, it's going to be an accident. So it's a Risk, but hopefully not a huge one. And then to be faced with all of these people who have no intention of taking you hostage, they're just out to kill you. Like I said, that must have been a real shock to them. That may well have played into this inability to rally and keep the momentum going with the horses, because all of a sudden they're thinking, hang on, this isn't meant to happen.
- [43:24]
B
Yeah, yeah. And the thing is with people is that it doesn't have to be a huge moment of doubt. It's when a little bit of doubt sneaks in that, you know, you might not make a good decision after that. And so if. If you were prepared, mentally prepared, that you're going to win, and if you see that everything is going badly and then you have that sneaking bit of doubt, things can really go badly. And the Flemings, because they had their back to the wall, they know it is now or never. They know they're not going to walk away from this unless they're completely savage and just kill everyone that is in their way. They know that it's life or death where there might have been a moment, as you're saying, in the frenzy mentality that, you know, maybe they could go home after this. That is definitely not what happens.
- [44:09]
A
And so, having won this victory, you know, we've established that I quite like the Flemings. They sound pretty cool. They've won this kind of David versus Goliath battle, also pretty cool. Hanging up spurs in a church to thumb their nose at the French king. Pretty cool. I guess the question is, do they manage to take advantage of this? So from the French point of view, to begin with, with this, this is a really embarrassing defeat. But is it. Is it more than an embarrassing defeat? Does this set Philip's project back at all?
- [44:39]
B
Yeah, I mean, when he loses in Flanders, it means he can't really keep bullying Edward in Gascony. It means that he has to concede some points and it means that he has to. To, first of all, regroup. He needs to rebuild his flower of chivalry all of his nights. And he also needs the money to go and put this rebellion down, because you can't let this stand, right? Like, he can't just be like, oh, well, that was it. And so he tries. He tries again in 1303. Doesn't really work very well. There's a whole bunch of things that are against him that are kind of irrelevant to our purposes. But in 1304, he comes back. He comes back in the summer, in August of 13 oh, four. And. And at this point, the Flemings are pretty confident, like they've been on top and they won this big battle. And they set up in exactly the same formation for a battle that's now known as the Battle of Mont Zan Pavel. So they set up and they've got their backs to the town and they also have set up a bunch of wagons. They don't have the river there this time, but the French try and penetrate this. And they tried a couple of times, it doesn't work. And then there is a mistake that comes from the Fleming's overconfidence, where they're like, hey, this is going great. And they come out, basically come out of their foxhole and they try to take on the French in a place where the French have a lot more space and they get really close. It's such a surprise in the evening, and it's such a surprise that a bunch of the chronicles say that they almost captured the King, because the King has shown up on this battlefield himself. In fact, some of them say that he. They got so close that they killed one of his bodyguards, beheaded one of his bodyguards. But Philip, he manages. He manages to escape from this. But because they've come out of their foxhole, everything is different. They can't use the tactics that they had. And this is where the heavy cavalry has its moment. There's so much space that they are able to run down the Flemings and that's a rout. And so at the Battle of Montz en Pavel, because they changed their tactics, because the Flemings got a bit overconfident and thought they could take on the French, this is when. This is when that strategy that the French have always relied on shows its worth and they win there. And it's never really the same during the rest of Philip's reign. He has his boot heel on the Flemings from that point on, because he has the power. He's wiped out a lot of the people who were sort of the most charismatic and the most battle tested and the most experienced. Those people are dead now. And so Philip puts a huge fine on them for rebelling against him. He is said to have told a bunch of people from Bruce to go on pilgrimage to make it up to him. But basically, this is. This is the moment. Let's not like, let's be real here. The Flemings will continue to kick back against the French forever, but really, for the rest of Philip's reign, this is it for them. And so when, when we look at the Battle of Montz en Pavel and the Battle of Courcher or the Battle of the Golden Spears together, you really see how tactics make all the difference. And how, like, this is why Vegetius is like, put your back to the wall because this is how you win. And when they. When they stray from that tactic, they lose.
- [48:04]
A
Yeah. Now I'm slightly disappointed in the Flemish for getting overconfident and too cocky. You just ruined it all, guys.
- [48:12]
B
It happens to everyone.
- [48:14]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
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- [49:35]
A
So if Philip is kind of able to. He's in a position now to punish Flanders. He's extracting fines. He's maybe sending some people off to the Holy Land, smacking the back of their legs as they go. Does this move him closer to his ultimate goal of subsuming Flanders? Is it weak enough for him to actually take control of Flanders now?
- [49:55]
B
He's. He's more able to do this. But the thing is that because he's put these fines on them and he's impoverished them through making them fight, they don't have a lot to give anymore. So he can keep squeezing them, but it's not going to work because they have nothing left to give. I mean, they're. The towns are still doing well with the textile industry. It's not like they become ghost towns or anything like that. But he can't squeeze them the way he wants to because he's already done that. There's nothing left. And so this has been such an expensive project for him. And he doesn't really get a huge amount of revenue from the fines that he's put on them. That this actually is a huge moment when it comes to history, broadly, because Philip needs to have more cash, because he needs to rebuild everything after having this expensive war. And this is the moment where he expels the Jews and takes their wealth, and after this, he destroys the Templar Order and takes their wealth. And so without this rebellion by the Flemings, without the Battle of the golden spurs, we don't have, or we probably would not have those other really pivotal moments in Philip's reign that have huge echoes throughout the rest of history. So this moment, this, the battle of the golden spurs, it's more than just an ego problem, and it's more than just a problem of losing a whole bunch of your knights. It becomes a money problem that becomes everybody's problem. So it's one of those moments that is really pivotal in ways that. That nobody was expecting as they lined up outside of the city and in
- [51:30]
A
that moment feels like a huge victory, but in the long run is creating as many problems as it's solving.
- [51:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, this is why violence doesn't solve problems. Right? That's right. But. But, yeah, it doesn't solve problems for anyone. And you do. You do look at the people on both sides and think about, like, what was at stake for them. Right. Did they feel like it was worth it at the time? And you can never. You can never see the future. All of these things only make sense in hindsight. And even at this moment in Philip's reign, I don't think anybody saw how dangerous he was as a person, as a king. I don't think that they really knew who they were dealing with. I don't think Philip himself knew who he was or how intense he could be when it comes to having vengeance on other people. And so, like, nobody could have seen these things coming. So we can't ever say, like, maybe they should have talked it out, because, you know, people are only working with the facts that they have at that moment. And it's very easy to forget that when we're looking at history, when we're especially looking at big moments like that. But people only have the information that they have looking forward, never looking back.
- [52:41]
A
And I'm interested as well in the extent to which the Battle of the golden spurs might have influenced both military and kind of societal stuff that follows out throughout the rest of the 14th century. Because. Because those tactics that the Flemings have used sound strikingly similar to some of the tactics that Edward III will come to France and use against French heavy cavalry dismounting, you know, digging ditches, trying to counter the heavy cavalry. And Edward is definitely picking up bits of that from his experiences in France. But is it possible that he's also seeing that, you know, if this bunch of town militia can beat a heavy cavalry charge in this manner, there's got to be something in that tactic. Is it influencing using military tactics more broadly?
- [53:23]
B
Yes, I think so. I mean, a lot of it is, I don't want to say exactly, common sense, but it's like battles are not really common when we think about it, but it is tactics that have been used for a really long time and that, like, ditches are good and spears are good. I think the one that really sort of speaks to me when it comes to sort of learning from this is, again, if we look to Scotland, right, because the Scots are always fewer than the English and they're always attired in a way that is lesser than the English. And we do see some success, right, we see the Battle of Bannockburn, and again, this is a sort of a marshy ground. There are spears that are being shoved into the ground to repel heavy cavalry. So I do think that the Battle of Bannockburn is one that might have had some echoes there. And when we think about the Scottish and French alliance and how they were speaking to each other and how they both have England as sort of a common enemy, even when there's a truce, there might have been some learning happening there, because these are two countries that are speaking to each other and I think continue to speak to each other, even though they're not really supposed to be allies. In the same sense, when it comes to Edward iii, it's slightly different in that I think he and his military commanders are thinking sort of creatively of how do you repel a cavalry charge? And they certainly pick terrain that will facilitate that, right, so that they can. They can keep the cavalry from their advantage, which is, again, speed and space. But it's a little bit different for Edward III because he tends to deploy and really value archers in a way that's not. You don't see this at the Battle of the Golden Spurs. You see a lot of crossbowmen, but the Flemings are not people. They don't really have, like, an archery culture, Right. Like, we're talking about their special weapon. Their special weapon is a club. It's for in close fighting. And again, this is a bit of a surprise to people who are used to, like, Big pitched battles. When it comes to Edward iii, he really starts to depend on archery. And he is the king that says everybody needs to practice archery on Sunday. So he really sees the value of archers when it comes to big battles like Crecy, for example. That is an archer's battle. But you're right, though, in that you have to change the tactics when you have infantry who are against heavy cavalry, and you have to think about how you can hamstring that cavalry in ways that are creative. You can't let them ride over you. There's just no stopping them. You have to. You have to pick terrain that's going to be useful to you. Whether that's maybe narrowing, as we saw with. With Agincourt, like narrowing the field or using marsh, like you see in Flanders at the Battle of the golden spurs or in Scotland at the Battle of Bannockburn. I mean, burn is right there in the. In the. The title. Right. So using water to repel heavy cavalry is very smart.
- [56:12]
A
Yeah, yeah. And then just in societal terms as well, is it too much of a stretch to see the success of the Flemings at the beginning of the century influencing some of the greater unrest that we see later in the century? And we can chuck into the mix things like the Black Death and all of that, inspiring all of these things, but by the time you get to the Jacquerie, the Chiampi Revolt and the Peasants Revolt in England, are we seeing a newly confident part of society because they can defeat these enemies if they turn their mind to it, or is that just too much of a stretch from the Battle of the Golden Spurs?
- [56:46]
B
It may be too long in history. Like, it might be a moment at which we're talking about people who are illiterate. And this doesn't mean that they're stupid, obviously, but they may not be reading about these. Right. So in an oral culture, you're passing stories on. So if we're talking about the Peasants Revolt or the Jacquerie, it might be too far for the French, the Jacari. It might make sense in that they would remember this more, more closely because it's. It's very tied to their culture. So they might be thinking, you know, the Flemings won this one, maybe we could win this one too. But I think that it. It comes down to sort of the things I was saying about the Flemings earlier, that it comes down to solidarity and loyalty and culture and feeling like you. You have no other option and feeling like you need to take advantage of the moment. So when it Comes to things like the Jacquerie again, that had a tipping point. Bunch of French soldiers got massacred. So they were like, well, this is our moment, we have to do this now. And they had set in terms of the Jacari. They had again, little groups, little pockets of people with solidarity. They had leaders. And then. So that came together very quickly. So you can see sort of echoes of what's happening in Flanders, the rebellion in Flanders, in the Jacquerie, and that people do underestimate, you know, the smarts, the strategic invention, or the loyalty of people who are underneath the nobility. And so we do see, like, a lot of thinking, a lot of strategy, a lot of loyalty. And so you see that coming together in sort of. I don't know if cells is the right word, but sort of the cells that come together. When it comes to the Jacqueri, I don't know that it has a huge. The Battle of the Golden Spires. I'm not sure that it has a huge effect on the English Peasants revolt, except for that there are a lot of similarities that you see, right? Too much taxation, too much influence. The King they don't really like. And then just believing that with sheer numbers and sheer audacity, we can do this. Of course we can do this. And so it does have a ripple effect, probably more so in France than I would say in England.
- [58:52]
A
This has been absolutely fascinating. Danielle, thank you so much for taking us all the way through the context and all the way through the battle. I think I like the Flemings. I think I'm impressed that they won the Battle of the golden spurs. And I find myself disappointed that they then threw it all away by getting a bit too full of themselves and a bit too cocky. But, I mean, it's a fantastic story, isn't it?
- [59:10]
B
Yes, yes, absolutely. Maybe we shouldn't be too hard on them because by the time they made that, that charge at the Battle of Montzin Pavel, and they did almost win, they did almost get the King. They have been sitting there for days. They have been sitting there all day. So maybe they just got tired. I mean, there is that human element as well. But the Battle of the golden spurs should be remembered, I think, because it is one of those moments where if we. If we just believe in our cause and if we just lean on each other and if we seriously pack each other shoulder to shoulder, not only like, figuratively, but literally, then maybe we can win stuff, maybe we can win stuff against the odds. And that is inspiring. I think that you're Right. To, to admire the Flemings for this, this moment. And I think it should be remembered for that.
- [59:57]
A
Yeah, perfect. Wonderful. Well, thank you very much, Danielle. It's been great to talk to you again.
- [60:02]
B
Thanks. Good to see you.
- [60:05]
A
I hope you've enjoyed this episode. You can catch Danielle on her podcast, the Medieval Podcast, to hear more great stories. If you want to find out more about the history of Flanders and their struggles with England and France during the Hundred Years War, you can go back and listen to a recent episode, Armanac vs Burgundy, Medieval France in flames, and also the women who ruled medieval Burgundy. There are new instalments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday. So please come back to join Elena and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. Don't forget to also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've gone medieval. You can also sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week at historyhit.com forward/subscribe. Anyway, I better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just Gone medieval with History Hit.
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You're on the banks of the Thames. It's 1666 and the Sixteen City is a towering inferno in front of you. The great fire rages through the Stuart capital. If you're visiting London this summer, let me, Dan Snow, historian and born and raised Londoner, be your personal guide in a brand new series of audio walking tours from History Hit. I tell you the stories of where some of England's most explosive history happened. We'll follow the destructive path of the great fire of light London and explore where and how King Charles I met his grisly end. All you need is your smartphone and the VoiceMap app. Using your location, it triggers the story automatically so you can keep your phone in your pocket and your eyes on the history as you walk. Step into London's past. Download VoiceMap from your app store or go to VoiceMap Me Historyhit. That's VoiceMap MeHistoryhit.