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- [00:01]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis.
- [00:03]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I'm Dr. Eleanor Jaenega and we're.
- [00:05]
Matt Lewis
Just popping up here to tell you some insider info.
- [00:08]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
If you would like to listen to Gone Medieval ad free and get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit with the History Hit subscription.
- [00:16]
Matt Lewis
You can also watch hundreds of hours.
- [00:19]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Of original documentaries such as my new series on everyone's favorite conquerors, the Normans.
- [00:25]
Matt Lewis
Or my recent exploration of the castles that made Britain.
- [00:29]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
There's a new release to enjoy every week.
- [00:32]
Matt Lewis
Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe or find the link in the show Notes for this episode. When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual.
- [00:54]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and.
- [00:58]
Matt Lewis
Money today so you can transform tomorrow.
- [01:01]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Workday moving business forever forward. Jack in the Box's new banana French toast sticks starting at $2.99 are the same French toast sticks you love now, banana flavored and served with chocolate dipping sauce.
- [01:15]
Matt Lewis
So good.
- [01:15]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And another way Jack gives you so.
- [01:18]
Matt Lewis
Much more.
- [01:21]
John Sadler
Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight today@Greenlight.com podcast.
- [01:54]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Hello, I'm Dr. Eleanor Jennica and welcome to Gone Medieval From History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We uncover the greatest mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and the latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the Normans, from kings to Popes to the Crusades, we delve into the rebellions, plots and murders that tell us who we really were and how we got here. 10th century Norway, a world of unbridled ambition and bloodshed. Ragnhild, the mighty wife of Harald Fairhair, the first king to unite his country, gives birth to a son. The boy Eric is destined for greatness from the start, but it is his own actions that will earn him a name that will echo through the ages. Bloodaxe from his earliest years, Eric shows a fierce appetite for battle and conquest. When he turns 12, his father gives him five longships, each manned by a crew of hardened Norse warriors. With this small fleet, Eric sets sail on his first expedition, eager to prove Himself worthy of his royal blood. For four long years, Erik and his men terrorized the coasts of the Baltic, Denmark and Frisia. The young prince quickly gains a reputation for his brutal efficiency in battle and his merciless treatment of his enemies. But it is during a raid on the shores of Scotland that Eric will earn his infamous name. As the Norse longships approach the Scottish coast, the local defenders rally to repel the invaders. Eirik is swift to lead his men into the fray. In the thick of battle, the young prince finds himself face to face with a towering Scottish warrior, rising high with his massive war axe. With a primal roar, Eric swings his own axe in a deadly arc. The blade bites deep into his opponent's neck, nearly severing the man's head from his body. Blood sprays forth in a crimson fountain, drenching Eric and his weapon. As the Scottish warrior falls, Eric stands triumphant, his axe dripping red with the blood of his vanquished foe. Times to come will forever know Eric as Bloodaxe. The tale of his brutal victory spreads like wildfire among both his allies and his enemies. Some say that the nickname is given to him by his own men in awe of their leader's ferocity. Others claim it is whispered in fear by those who opposed him. Regardless of its origin, the name Bloodaxe becomes synonymous with Erik's ruthless determination and uncompromising approach to warfare. He embraces the epithet, using it to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies and inspire loyalty among his followers. As Eric continues his raids along the coasts of Ireland, Wales and even as far as France, his reputation grows. He is no longer just a prince of Norway, but a legendary Viking warrior in his own right. Every victory he every conquered territory adds to the legend of Erik Bloodaxe. But with great power come great enemies. As Eric returns to Norway to claim his father's throne, he finds that his path to kingship will be paved with the blood of his own kin. The name Bloodaxe will take on an even darker meaning as Eric faces the greatest challenge of his life, securing his claim to the crown of Norway, no matter the cost. Well, that's how some versions of the legend of Erik's Bloodaxe go, or at least how he might have got his name. Joining me today to find out more about Erik Bloodaxe and maybe dispel some of the myths, is John Sadler. His new book, Eric Bloodaxe the I Shall Die Laughing, is remarkably the first non fiction account of Eric's life, offering illuminating insights into this legendary Viking. Welcome to Gone Medieval John, and we're.
- [06:35]
Matt Lewis
Glad to be here.
- [06:36]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I am excited for you to be here today because we are doing one of those big names which for medieval historians I think conjures up a lot of images. But if you simply say the name Eric Bloodaxe, I think non historians prick their ears up right away. So can you just give us a kind of pressy about where one gets a name like this? How do you. How do you get called Eric Bloodaxe and live to tell the tale?
- [07:04]
Matt Lewis
Well, I think one of the remarkable things about Eric is he managed to clock up 70 before he finally went down in his last battle, which is a pretty big age in those days. It would appear a marvellous sort of comic strip title as Blood Axe is that it was Bloodaxer and he got the name because of the number of his brothers that he killed. He had a lot of brothers and to be fair, most of them were trying to kill him. When his father died, I think he left 19 sons altogether. And although their father, Harald Fairhair was King of Norway, he was the first king. So there was no idea of primogeniture, there was no concept of a natural succession. Basically it was last man standing and it was determined he would be the last man standing.
- [07:43]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Ah, it's, you know, a beautiful tradition and culture, what can I say? I suppose that's an important distinction though, because obviously this seems fairly ruthless. However, it fundamentally just is the case that this particular society just didn't have the same social rules that we do now. And absolutely fratricide was on the menu in this circumstance.
- [08:05]
Matt Lewis
Obviously Scandinavian society was emerging from a period where there were, and if you look at the geography, particularly of Norway, there's only 3% of the land can be cultivated and the country split up by mountain ranges into a whole number of separate pockets. And for centuries those little areas had all been ruled by their own local king, the local, the leading man and leading family of the area. And Viking society was very structured. You had like your royalty tier, you had your gentry tier, you had your not quite gentry tier, you had your free men and then you had basically all the rest who didn't count. And the idea that one man, one king, would rule the whole country was, Wasn't just novel, it was an anathema to most of the regional groups, because the regional groups, like regions everywhere, didn't much care for each other and they certainly weren't about to take orders from somebody from that side of the mountain. So Harald Feyner, who was Eric's father, who was A man who set out on a mission to unite Norway as one kingdom under him, of course, as king, had a pretty uphill struggle and he was successful largely because he killed anybody who got in his way and because he was so much feared by the end of his period of conquest and he ruled for over 50 years, he was so feared that nobody actually dared raise a hand against him. But that didn't mean that the independent tendencies wouldn't arise once he died.
- [09:28]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
That's why I suppose that there is a great way of getting out in front of that, is by showing that one is willing to kill one's own brothers. That does put you in pretty good standing for attempting to have a quite violent control over a disparate group of people who they themselves are quite violent. I mean, that just sort of is how society is working in these circumstances.
- [09:49]
Matt Lewis
It is. I mean, there's been an effort by some historians to kind of rehabilitate Vikings as basically farmers, traders, fishermen, seafarers, merchants, all of which they were great explorers. Yes. Great craftsmen. Yes. But at the end of the day they were an accepting, violent society. There's no getting away from it.
- [10:04]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I agree. I was just going to say one of my jokes about it. So I always say, uh huh. Trading what?
- [10:10]
Matt Lewis
If you read any of the sagas, think Nyar Saga, Saga of Burnt Nyar, for instance. It's the sort of thing that Quentin Tarantino would love. It's a non stop cycle of gratuitous sex and violence. It describes every blow, every cut, every thrust, excuse the pun. And it's clear that the audience, what the audience expecting, that's what they revel in. They want to hear stories of bloodshed and violence and heroism. They're not really interested in anything too fluffy.
- [10:35]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
You raise a good point here. So we have these sagas which tell us rather a lot about Eric Blood Acts. What are the main distinctions between contemporary sources or saga based sources when we're attempting to find out about these individuals? Because the sagas really are kind of selling it, aren't they? They are the big blockbuster movies of the time.
- [10:56]
Matt Lewis
Sagas, if we talk about British newspapers, are much more Daily Mail than they are Daily Telegraph. They're sensational. They are stories. They were passed down initially by word of mouth around the fire, whenever we want to hear a ripping tale of a Viking type hero. And for the most part they weren't written down until centuries later, many of them by Snorri SC from Iceland. And they may well have been changed and altered, added to and taken away from in that time. And it's a bit like talking about the Trojan War and saying Homer is the main source. Yes, he is. But we can't prove it. We can't prove any of it. It's a cracking tale and the level of detail tends to make you think there's a kernel of truth there, but you certainly can't prove it. In terms of actual chronicle sources, contemporary records that would substantiate the story of Eric. These are very, very few and far between, because the Vikings don't write about themselves. Others write about them, but they don't. And the others who are writing about them have generally just been duffed up by them or have their women stolen or their cattle stolen. The women they can live with that are cattle. That's quite embarrassing. And not to mention the fact that church has just been trashed and their priests turned into slaves or dog food. So there tends to be a certain amount of bias against the Vikings, which in the circumstances is quite understandable. So, again, we don't have a chronicle source, you don't have an Anglo Saxon chronicle from the Vikings, which gives us a year by year, blow by blow account of what was going on. We simply don't have that. So what we have is a patchwork of saga sources which have to be treated with extreme caution. And we have a number of chronicle sources which are referring to the Vikings, written about them, but not by them. And again, there's a lot often bias there and indeed, a whole world of inaccuracy.
- [12:39]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
One of the issues is it's really seductive to kind of go down the route of looking at the sagas, because they're fun, they do exactly what they're meant to do. But are there any near contemporary sources that talk about Eric at all? Or are we just interpolating from literary sources at this point?
- [12:59]
Matt Lewis
Eric, assuming Eric, the Eric of England, is the Eric of Norway, once he gets to England, there are references to his career in England, which really covers quite a short period. Two very short bursts as King in the north, based at York, are written in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle and a few other sources now, but they are very, very fleeting, these referrals. And whilst we might say, well, yeah, okay, these look like this could be pretty much accurate, it still doesn't tell us a lot and it doesn't really give us any picture of the human Eric blood axe. And the information that they give us sometimes is contradictory. And again, we are left in no small measure in the realm of heroic conjecture. Try to piece the various bits together to get so many of the truth.
- [13:44]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And that's why it's sort of disputed, why we have this question lingering about, is this Eric of Norway? Is this Eric of England? You know, because it's kind of murky, isn't it? The, the information that we do have?
- [13:55]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, it is extremely murky. Some contemporary academics, writers like Professor Claire Downham, who's an extreme distinguished academic of this period, have expressed no doubt, but they have a court pointed out that, that there is no actual hard evidence that tells us that Eric Bloodax of Norway was the same Erik as who ruled twice in Northumbria. The dates all fit, sort of. And it would seem likely that if I was Archbishop Wulfstan of Northumbria, the great power broker, if I was looking for somebody who could stand up to the power of the kings of Wessex, I'd want somebody with a proven track record, somebody who had a name and a reputation, which Eric certainly did have. And therefore you say, well, there's no other Eric blood acts being mentioned, so it must be the same guy. I don't think that's unreasonable. If I was in a court of law, I couldn't swear that this is the absolute truth, not by a long way.
- [14:46]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
It's an interesting one too, because when we start throwing Eric around in terms of his involvement in England, it's also an interesting one because in theory he's not even the initial Norwegian connection over to the English. Right. You know, we have, we think, correct me if I'm wrong, because I could be. We think that the initial son that is sent over is Haakon, who is kind of, I think, yeah, Haakon, the good, great name. You know, their families contain multitudes. Everyone's got a good. And everyone's got a blood ax, you know, so he kind of gets sent over by his father to be a fosterling to King Aethelstan. Right. So what is the. What would that mean for Eric then? You know, your younger brother sent off, here you are in Norway, which is a pretty sweet deal, you know, your dad has united it. But is there knock on implications for him as a slightly older son?
- [15:42]
Matt Lewis
Clearly Eric is of course hoping to inherit his father's kingdom when his father died. And the Evans were clearly suggested during the latter years of Freheir's life. And he would be in his 80s by the time he died, so he was a big age. He shared the throne with Eric, which would suggest that he was grooming Eric to take over. Sending your youngest son or younger son to the court of as Powerful a monarch as Athelstan was a sound political move. It means you're building a bridge between England. And Athelstan was creating England at this time, at the same time as Harold has created Norway. So there's a certain logic there. But of course, it goes back a bite. Eric, because Athelstan backs Haakon Good when Han takes Eric on. And Eric simply can't compete with Athelstan. Of course, Haakon the Good is called Haakon the Good, because he probably wasn't as bad as Eric. That's. He's only called the Good. I think by comparison, Haren himself is a pretty tough customer. He's no pusher. And he again, he rules Norway for a considerable period and finally goes down in battle against Eric's sons some decades later. So I think what was in Harald's mind, as far as we can tell, when he sends Haakon away, he might have sent Harkin away. So Eric didn't feel the need to kill him himself. He was out of harm's way in that sense. At the same time, his would have been a very valuable diplomatic mission to the court of Athelstan, who was then one of Europe's most powerful monarchs.
- [17:10]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Haakon comes back then, though, right? You know, because we have then the death of Aethelstan and Haakon returns to Norway. What happens then? You know, you think you know, you're e. You're like, great, this is fantastic. I'm co ruling with my father, here I am in Norway and then suddenly your brother returns. What does this mean?
- [17:29]
Matt Lewis
It's not good news. Means you need to move on fairly rapidly. Because it seems that Eric, whatever gifts of rule, of monarchy his father had and how it wasn't just about brute force. He obviously understood diplomacy. He understood the need to make dynastic marriages, the need to bring the nobles on side if you're going to keep the whole job together. Eric doesn't seem to have understood this. Eric, as soon as his father dies, is thrown into a period of warfare with his other brothers, whom he defeats. And then suddenly Haakon arrives back at a time when whether he's actively supported by English arms, we don't know. Possibly. Most likely, Athelstan's given him a pay chest and the loyalty of the Norwegian lords is very much dependent on who's writing the cheque at that particular time. And it does appear that the Norwegian lords were chafing under the harsh rule of Eric. And Harken appeared to be a safer option.
- [18:17]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I mean, I Guess that's not a great way to show back up at your kind of bloodthirsty brother's court. You know, like, hey, I'm back from England. I've got all of this money. You know, don't worry. This is not a threat to us, you and I. It might just be like, oh, it's great. As a foreign person myself, you know, whenever I return to my family, I bring a bag full of, you know, obscure and delight British treats, you know.
- [18:41]
Matt Lewis
And the same thing. And I think we could. What would have happened, of course, that when as soon as Harald died, Haakon would have begun making overtures to the Norwegian princelings. Athelstan would have seen the opportunity to extend his own influence into Norway and therefore would have provided him with substantial financial backing. And financial backing was the key. We know all those who became kings of Norway, people like St Olaf and Harald Hadradi only made their bid when they had a significant war chest amassed. So really, it's Geltfried, as the Germans would call it. Money is as important as men in arms.
- [19:19]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I think that there's also an important kind of note here as well, because your brother shows back up with all of this money, and that is, in and of itself, somewhat of an implicit threat within this society. And also, I think it's kind of important to know, you know, who is your brother. You know, your brother's been away in England. Do you actually know this guy? You know, it's comes across much more as a threat in this particular social milieu. This isn't, you know, your brother, who you played next to near the hearth all day, you know, this is a somewhat foreign person who can be read as, you know, a direct threat to one's livelihood, if not their life, when he shows back up.
- [20:04]
Matt Lewis
Yes. Or just ask. Look, if you look at Shakespeare, look at Richard III when he says, speaks to his best clowns, thou art next. Well, we all probably fight with our siblings, but royal brothers probably do so rather more than others because stakes are very high and blood may be thicker than water, but gold generally is a good deal thicker than both. And the history of Scandinavia at this time keeps on showing the guy with the big bucks has a good chance of coming out on top.
- [20:27]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Fundamentally, Eric is the one who comes out on top in this, whether or not there was an actual threat. Eric, how shall we say this politely eliminates his.
- [20:37]
Matt Lewis
We think, yeah, it's more him. It's in fairness to Eric, yes, he was a pretty tough and utterly ruthless character, but he lived in a tough and ruthless age. If he hadn't turned on his brothers, they certainly would have done for him, probably would try to do at the time. And of course, once the king dies, all the various power factions within the regions begin to align and maybe choose their own candidate. They probably choose the guy who thinks weakest because they know they're going to get their own way under him. So it becomes very, very complex and this very fragile carapace of royalty which Harald has created, simply falls apart. It's not been established long enough. The idea that one king will succeed another hasn't taken root. As far as the Norwegian earls are concerned. They're waiting for him to die so they can revert back to square one.
- [21:24]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Is he bringing a similar level of violence to the earls, for example, as well?
- [21:29]
Matt Lewis
We don't know. That's the short answer. We do not know. We get a reference to him winning a sea battle in the north of Norway, presumably against the rebellious earls, because the northern earls tended to be particularly independently minded. And Eric has built up during his father's lifetime a reputation as successful Viking as a pirate, effectively because Eric knows he has to build up his war chest as well, because he knows when his father died there's going to be a fight, and therefore the greater level of resources that he possesses, the stronger his position will be. So Eric, probably, like most Vikings, has a spring cruise and an autumn cruise, which sounds very nice, but actually means you go out and kill and rape and pillage and take slaves and attempt to build up the bank balance to its maximum point when you know you're going to need it. So Eric will have been aware from a fairly early age that he needs to have a significant cash deposit behind him.
- [22:39]
John Sadler
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- [23:11]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Skin Tells a story. Join me, Holly Fry and a slate of incredible guests as we are all inspired by their journey with psoriasis. Along with these uplifting and candid personal histories, we take a step back into the bizarre and occasionally poisonous history of our skin and how we take care of it. Whether you're looking for inspiration on your own skincare journey or are curious about the sometimes strange history of how we treat our skin, you'll find genuine, empathetic, transformative conversations here on our skin. Listen to our skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He does a great job of consolidating wealth and consolidating power. You know, he's got a pretty good shot at having all these things because his father was great at that as well. Now, in your book, though, you talk a little bit about what it takes to be that kind of Viking, what it takes to be that kind of pirate, essentially. And you go into a lot of detail about the weapons that Eric would have been good at using. And when we've got a name like Eric Bloodaxe, does that mean that this is a guy who has a preferred weapon of choice? You know, when he goes cruising, has he got an axe in his back pocket? Or is this, you know, a reference to something else that we don't quite understand here in the 21st century is.
- [24:44]
Matt Lewis
Almost certainly a great warrior. You have to be. The Vikings like, great warriors. It's like Achilles and Hector. They follow the man who has the reputation, who is a great fighting man. He can't fake that. And because you're standing there in the front of the ship, you are the must kill target in a sea battle or a land battle. So you've got to know what you're doing. You've got to be highly skilled with your weapons just to survive from day to day. And clearly, I think Eric's reputation, therefore, is not built on hot air or spin or social media. It's built on reality. He is a seriously tough customer. And yes, the name Bloodaxe would suggest that the axe, Longhound, Danish axe, may have been his favorite weapon. But a true Viking warrior would be expected to be equally at home with any of the main weapons. Spear, axe, say axe, sword, the whole arsenal. You have to be good with that, because at any point, you might end up using any or all of them.
- [25:37]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
So, I mean, this is the, I guess, the sexy top things that we always talk about with Vikings. I'm as bad as a saga, right? I go right in and I'm like, tell me about the killing, John. I'd like to know about the killing. But there.
- [25:49]
Matt Lewis
There is Schwarzenegger, you know.
- [25:50]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, exactly. You know, but at the same time, one has to admit that there is a kind of diplomatic background as well, that it's happening. And one of the things that you've mentioned now is there are good marriages happening behind the scenes as well, which is so important and perhaps, perhaps less sexy, a little bit less attention grabbing. Do we know anything about who Eric gets married off to as a result of all of this?
- [26:15]
Matt Lewis
Oh yes we do. His queen, much hated by the saga writers is Gunhild was left with the view that the story and the other the saga writers, the saga compilers were pretty misogynistic because they don't necessarily expect to have strong women around. And if she's a strong woman, she must be a witch. She's got to be a wrong. It also means that Eric's excesses can be blamed on it or blamed on his wife. Where we get to the point where in Egil's saga where Egil is shipwrecked of course in Yorkshire and finds himself rather embarrassingly at Eric's court. And of course there's a lot of form between Eric and Egil. And Egil certainly we know according to his own saga has killed one of Eric's sons. Gunhild of the Queen is all for cutting him, cutting him into small pieces and feeding the fish, but Eric intends to is reasonable and Ironbjorn, who is intercedes on behalf of Egg it's able to persuade the king to see reasonable. So Eric comes across as actually not such an unreasonable, vindictive type where his wife is an absolute cow and all the way through history, Pearl Gunhill gets damned. She's in the legends, she's the daughter of a couple of wizards or whatever from the north, from Finland or somewhere. In reality she was almost certainly a hierarchy Danish princess. So she was somebody of serious socio economic status actually probably just a little bit further up the ladder than Eric was. And you know, she certainly was a loyal wife. And when Eric dies, she takes over the family business, if you like. And it's really as a result of her leadership that her sons eventually Harry Graycloth becomes King of Norway by killing his uncle Harkonne Gru.
- [27:44]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
It's such an interesting thing because you get this, you get provided with a literary scapegoat. It's fantastic. You can then big up Eric Bloodaxe, the guy who's got to the throne through fratricide, by saying, oh yeah, you know, all the things you don't like, like probably Gunhilda, probably that woman over there, which is. It's just, you know, it's Convenient.
- [28:04]
Matt Lewis
So was Eric, is Eric blood actually just a head backed husband, you know, you don't know, maybe. Maybe he only went cruising to get away from his wife.
- [28:10]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Gentlemen, am I right? Am I right? You know, I mean this is the thing. You would kind of want a woman like an Hilda around especially, you know, a well connected Dane, you know, they've got tons of money. And here's Eric in theory the king of a newly united Norway. But we're talking about him being over in England. You don't just leave Norway, a nicely united Norway and go over to England for no particular reason. And we think he actually loses the crowd, right, like after about a year of, of, of ruling himself. How does that come to be, do we think?
- [28:44]
Matt Lewis
When Eric is effectively disposed of his brothers, those who are remaining in Norway, Haakon has clearly ceded the ground for his own return, funded by Athelstan's Guild, possibly with English support, actual military support, we don't know. But he lands in Norway and the Norwegian jarls who had never by this point and his harsh rule, they see him as the clearly the son of his father. They side with Haakon. And Eric obviously reads the wind pretty carefully and thinks it's worse. Time I was somewhere else because I can't compete with this level of wealth and influence. Which is why he, he and his, all his loyal forces, he must have had a reasonable following, take to their ships and apparently then make for the Orkneys, which makes sense because they're obviously Viking, they're a Viking colony. And his father had a very strong connection with the ruling house in Orkney. So that's an obvious first stop. And then what does Eric do to build up the war chest? Well, he continues where he left off. He goes back to piracy, to the.
- [29:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Family business, you know, and fair enough. You've always got that to fall back on, right? Get on a ship and go somewhere and if you have the means and the capability, you can make a new life for yourself. His presence is mentioned in Orkney. What do we know about this particular chapter of his life?
- [29:59]
Matt Lewis
Again, it's a little bit fragmentary to put it mildly. But we know there was a strong connection between his father and the Earls of Orkney, who were his father's nominees. And Eric, I imagine during his career of piracy in the course of his father's lifetime, had built a strong personal connection with the rulers of Orkney. There's no suggestion he went across to Orkney and conquered the place or beat it up or robbed and village. He was obviously Welcomed there as an ally, a friend and somebody who they knew quite well. Again, from his perspective, Orkney was a superb base for Viking activities. It exposed the whole coast of Scotland and England and the coast of Ireland, which are another lucrative hunting ground for Viking pirates. So it was an obvious base for him to arrive at and where he could watch what was happening in England, watch what was happening in Norway, and make the most of any opportunities which happened to arise.
- [30:49]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
This makes it a really reasonable refuge. And also, I guess it makes sense from our standpoint if we understand that this is kind of a stepping stone on the way to Northumbria. You know, okay, you've been kicked out of Norway, but then you can go pull yourself together in Orkney, where, you know, you have friendly people. But of course, again, these are Vikings. They're going to want you to move on eventually. You don't want a guy of this caliber, so staying at your hearth forever. And we're pretty sure at this point he then skips on over to Northumbria. What do we know about his initial stint there?
- [31:22]
Matt Lewis
It would appear that the background is Athelstan, after his great battle of Brunan Bear, wherever that was fought in 937, had come close to realizing his grandfather's vision of an Engelander, actually uniting the whole of England, actually Britain, under one ruler, normally himself. When Athelson dies, however, his immediate successor is nowhere near as powerful as he was. And his confederation for a while falls apart because the Northumbrians, who were themselves conquered by Vikings in 866, 867, now come to prefer a Norse ruler to a southern Englishman. They don't like the House of Wessex. They'd much rather have a northerner, a Norseman. And obviously by this time, the Norse and the thumbs, the bloodlines are so into mainland, you can't really say one or the other. What the Northumbrians are about is their independence. That is the number one consideration, because a short while before, Northumbria was the leading Anglo Saxon kingdom. Northumbria had been immensely powerful. They'd gone back a lot. But Northerners saw themselves as independent of the South. We still do.
- [32:24]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Is there a difference in terms of how we see Viking rules shake out there, as opposed to the Anglo Saxons? Because I know the Anglo Saxon Northumbria, this is a place that's incredibly powerful and important as a result of, you know, cattle primarily, you know, incredibly rich agricultural land. Is there a differentiation when you have Vikings come and take over, or is it just kind of same old, same old? Yes, we're still doing cattle farming, but also we go out Viking in the spring and autumn.
- [32:54]
Matt Lewis
The main change would be really when the Vikings arrive. When Ivar the wonderful, equally wonderfully named Ivar the Boneless defeats Ayala and takes over Northumberland at York. It's really a change of management. Most average Northumberland farmer wouldn't really know whether he's been ruled by a Viking or a Saxon. Probably wouldn't care. You still paying taxes? That's the main. So a lot of key manors, key positions and key properties would go to north to reward them for their service, which is what they come for in the first place. But then really it's business as usual. The difference is Anglo Saxon York, yeah for is a pretty pale shadow of Roman Ivarakum. The population declines. It's a bit run down. We'd think of as a bit as a shanty town compared to the Roman president. But the Vikings Ivaranis successes create this great trading emporium in Jorvik and the population and the wealth of York rapidly rises again because obviously they've got their links to the Norse kings in Dublin, they've got links to the Frankish court, they've got links to Scandinavia, they've got links to Spain, links all over Europe. And the Vikings are great traders. Yes, they're a pretty savage bunch of thugs, but they're also great traders and we shouldn't forget they're getting away from it. One of their main trades is human misery. They're slavers. They are slavers. It's nothing personal, it's just business smarts. They're concerned, but they deal in slaves and obviously reddish haired, blue eyed Irish women, a bit like yourself actually would be a considerable premium in the slave markets in Paris or indeed across Istanbul or wherever. So they were businessmen as well as farmers. So the Saxons hadn't been as active commercially in terms of international trade as the Vikings were. So really Viking age Northumbria was a bit of a boom time.
- [34:29]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
One way or another, they make things happen. It's easy to be critical of them and I certainly am. But fundamentally they've got great tech, they are able to move things around, they're able to make these connections. And I do think that there is of course a tendency for us to always say, okay, when Vikings show up, that's bad news. But in the case of Northumbria, I mean really, Norway's closer than London is. Culturally you're going to feel more connected than you are to whatever's going on in the south.
- [34:56]
Matt Lewis
There is very much I mean, there always was in Britain, I think, even back as far as the Iron Age, there was a kind of north south divide, as there still is. And that was particularly cute at this time, because the Northumbrians are desperate to avoid being controlled by the south, and part of that leadership is coming from the Church. Archbishop Wolfstone of York is the leading prelate in the North. He doesn't want to bend his knee to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Not at all. The Northern Church, again, which controls many of the sees in what is now southern Scotland. He's immensely wealthy and doesn't want to surrender that hegemony to somebody they've never met in Canterbury who's talking. It talks with a strange estuary accent, so you don't really want to do that. And the Norsemen, who are now so integrated in terms of the bloodstock, really, they're the locals. By the time Eric comes across, the Norsemen are not foreigners, they're the locals and they are to be preferred to the Southerners, who are not locals.
- [35:46]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, one way or another, you get Eric, right? This is how he shows up and he takes up this mantle. But this doesn't go unchallenged, shall we say. You know, it's not that, you know, everyone in the south says, oh, that's fine, they've got a new Viking. And so I guess we give up on Northumbria. Right. He has to actually fend off rival claimants from the south and from Norway as well. Correct.
- [36:08]
Matt Lewis
From Dublin, particularly. The Dublin Vikings have their own agenda as far as Northumberland's concerned. And Ivar the Bonus had a strong connection to Ireland, so part of various problem. He's not just facing opposition from the south and the other day, the King, he's facing Ralph Gustafson in Ireland, who will use any means. The Vikings are not a united front by any means. It's every man for himself. One Viking warlord will not necessarily make common cause with the other. It's quite likely. And it's the old story, my enemy's enemy is automatically my friend. So Eric is in pretty dodgy position. He's supported by the Bishop, Archbishop and the Northumbrian Norse gentry. As long as he's viable, the Northerners are acutely aware and the Adelaide makes them aware of how much more powerful Wessex actually is. And if they step out of line, he will, as he does, bring an army up and trash the place just to remind them who's actually boss. That's what ends Eric's first tenure. He's actually successful in battle. He defeats Yada at castle. But the fact is that the Southerners have such overwhelming strength, one single victory doesn't matter. And eventually Wolfstadt, who's an arch pragnatist, gets the message and Eric is sent on his travels again for a while.
- [37:18]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, because he comes back, right? You know, we kind of have an interregnum and then Eric comes back. So what happens in the meantime? Do we know? Is it just kind of like, oh, well, we're trying again, and then Eric goes and drums up more support? Or is that a little too simplistic?
- [37:33]
Matt Lewis
The events appear to be quite straightforward, but the moves behind those events, I suspect, were long drawn out and extremely complicated. Olaf, when he comes back, is acceptable to Yadred because he's less of a threat than Eric. But clearly the Northumbrians are still hankering after this independence. And therefore Wulfstan and the other Northumbrian magnates once again, when they've recovered their confidence, after they kind of break down their resilience, which Yadred is inflicted on them, they get their spirit back. Northerns are good at that. And then they think, well, what the hell? Erik Salvoid will have him back and he gets another two years.
- [38:05]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And that is nothing to sneeze at. I think in a time that is as turbulent as this kind of being brought back is, a huge vote of confidence shows us kind of rather a lot. Not just about the violence inherent in the system, of course, but also about how confidences play out and how relationships are made as well. So, you know, yeah, Eric is obviously a very, very powerful warrior, but he must have been a pretty all right guy as well. Could, considering the various alternatives and the fact that people actually make a play for him. You know, this is our guy. We're going to get Eric back. Things were a little bit more settled under him.
- [38:40]
Matt Lewis
Well, by this time, he's in his late 60s. He's no spring chicken. That's a big age for the time. Very big age. It's like me in your 80s or 90s now. And he. I think we tend to forget or we're not aware of the valuable connection he gets from Gunnhild. She's a daughter of the king of Denmark, and Denmark's had a settled monarchy for a very long time. The Danes are a powerful monarchical state and having support, however it's expressed from that quarter to lends a fair bit of weight to any claim that Eric makes. He may be able to suggest to the Northumbians that it wouldn't be the first or last. And he could draw on a Danish army to support him. Well, you know, that happens with Howard, or Viking happens with Howard Hardrada in 1066. So the idea that he might be able to draw up support from the wider Scandinavian world, it's not that long before Nut, of course, becomes Atlantic North European emperor. So there is always that character. Eric clearly has quite a substantial war band, as long as he can pay them, and he has, therefore a powerful following who give him the kernel of any army he could raise. The Northumbrians have a fair deform about fielding armies. So clearly the Northumbrians feel in 952 that it's ripe, the time is ripe, to have him back and make another statement about their independence.
- [39:49]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I suppose that really tells us rather a lot about Northumbria itself. Not just about Erryk as a person, but about the statecraft going on behind the scenes. You know, a name like Eric Bloodaxe, that's who you start paying attention to very quickly. But Northumbria is kind of, in its own way, as star of the show here, you know, there's a bunch of people that we don't know the names of who are involved in really intricate statecraft, and Eric just kind of steals the show because he's the guy they bring in.
- [40:17]
Matt Lewis
At the same time, when we talk about Northumbria, Northumbria doesn't just mean Northumberland or North Yorkshire the way it does today. There are two distinct regions, really, from, say, the Tees south and into Yorkshire. That's the Viking kingdom, from the Tees northward up to the Firth of Fork. That's the old Northumbria, which is not ruled by the Vikings. That's ruled by one of the House of Bamborough, that's ruled by a Northumbrian earl. And they're players as well, because they are players and they're obviously valuable allies either for the Northumbrians or for the Kings of Wessex, or only for the Scots. The Scots are there as well. And then you've got the Irish Vikings just to steal the mix. So Eric isn't likely to face his enemies coming at him from any one direction. They can come from any direction or all directions at once. So whoever is sitting in that throne in York, he's in a pretty precarious position, which demands. It's not about brute force. It demands significant diplomatic and political skill just to keep your bum on the seat.
- [41:14]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I mean, it's worth it, though. It's a really rich kingdom. There's rather a lot that's going on, you know, fantastic trading, but Fundamentally, Erryk ends up losing Northumbrea because he dies, you know, he dies at 70 in the battle of Stainmoor. What do we know about this particular death? I mean, what is this guy doing out there in the first place?
- [41:39]
Matt Lewis
That's a very good question. I think I devote a very long chapter with a lot of ifs and buts and maybes in it. I think Erryk had been deposed already. I don't think Stainlore is him hurrying from east to west to meet an enemy. I think it's him moving from west to east to reclaim Northumbria. And an alliance has formed against him, of Olaf, of the Earl of Northumberland, all of whom, one suspect, are funded from Wessex. Yadvid is playing a clever game this time. He's not going for brute force. He's going for skilled, cunning, diplomacy, and let the people do the dirty work for him. So he's not directly alienating the Northumbrians by trashing the place. He's allowing them to fight among themselves effectively. And then when Eric is dead, he'll just say, well, guys, here I am. Nobody left. Last man standing. So I'm suggesting that the Adrian is probably behind the coalition that is formed to resist Eric. The route across Stainmore was a sure and certain road from east to west. It was the Roman road. Still, plenty Roman remains along the road. If Eric has been forced out of Northumbria, if he has gone west to recruit men from possibly the Wirrall said, from Cumbria, or indeed from Ireland, or await reinforcements coming in from Scotland, depending how far his checkbook will go at this time, he amasses a force marching eastwards from west to east up the Stedmore Pass, where he's intercepted somewhere near the head of the pass. The battle ensues and he and his forces are overwhelmed. He's probably outnumbered, but he decides, because he's a gambler, Eric, at the end of the day, he decides his reputation, his ferocity, his name is enough, and he'll fight his way through. And he might make it exactly. The exact historical parallel would be King Olaf in, was it 1035 at the battle of Stickerstadt? He knows the odds are against him. Who thinks, what the hell, I'll have a go anyway, because I. I've always won in the past.
- [43:21]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
That makes sense, because if you're in an incredibly strong position, you know, if you're hanging out in York and you've got rather a lot of power and money behind you, there's no way that you're out at Stainmoor. You know, swinging an axe around at 70 years old, it's likely, I would imagine, that something has forced your hand. There's no point in you being on the battlefield if things are fairly stable. I mean, even given the fairly patchy political nature of England at the time.
- [43:50]
Matt Lewis
That's right. I think we have, we read about early English history as being, you know, one battle after another. Medieval generals from this relatively early period. Army would avoid battle if they possibly could. Nobody want to fight in the battle unless he had to, unless he was certain of winning. He would only fight if you thought there was a damn good chance you were going to win. Because once you commit your forces to battle, you actually lose all control. Because once you're in the front line, there's no way you can control the flow of the battle. You have no radio, got no comms, and you don't get an overview. There's no way you can actually gauge what's happening on the flanks if you're in the center. If you stand back from the back line. Look at him. He's not really one of us. So you're expected to be this kind of Homeric figure leading from the front in the front line, which makes controlling a battle. We don't know how many, what the numbers are, probably not that great. So Eric, I think has got to be pretty desperate almost and knows this is his last chance. If he can break his confederation of enemies ranged against him, he can break them in now and stay more. He's bomb proof.
- [44:46]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Do we know who actually killed him? I mean this is a pretty big head to take. Or is this simply a fog of war sort of situation?
- [44:52]
Matt Lewis
The man who gets the credit is Earlmachis, who is the yarn of Thumbria at that time. But in the heat of battle, exactly who is killing who is almost impossible. In the movies it's always, you know, it's always this great fight between the two heroes. Never happens like that. The line breaks and you simply get rolled over. So exactly who or which group of men struck Eric down, we don't know.
- [45:27]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
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- [46:38]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
One way or another, he's dead. It's a good innings. 70 years is nothing to sneeze at in general, let alone if you're a Viking. So, but what are the implications for Northumbria after Eric is actually dead? Does this mean that it's kind of absorbed more with the more northern part of Northumbria, or what? Like, how does this shake out, really?
- [46:58]
Matt Lewis
The death of Eric is generally taken as marking the end of the independent kingdom of Northumbria, and that the kings of Wessex now extend their influence really all the way to the Scottish borders. And the Earl of Northumbria becomes a servant of the. Of the kings of Wessex. And remember, of course, at that point, nine, five, four, there's no border between England and Scotland. The way we understand it now, the Thumbian influence extends as far north as the further fourth, and the border's not fixed till 1018 and the battle of Carm, when the tweed becomes the light. So really, the death of Eric is always taken as, and rightly, I think, taken as marking the end of an independent Norse stroke. Northumbrian kingdom in the north. That's it. The north is now part of England, whether you like it or not.
- [47:43]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And this is one of the things that makes this story, I don't know, from my standpoint, kind of sad. I like the independent North, Whatever. Call me romantic and you'll be, why not? Yeah, you know, why not? But, you know, I think that Eric gets held up at this point as a fairly romantic figure, despite the fact that, you know, he's this big, bloodthirsty Viking. You know, he's independent, he's a really good warrior, he's courageous. But how much of that is just us getting taken in by the various chronicles and sagas? Right? Because a lot of what we know about him comes out of the Chronicle of Edgil. And is this reliable or, you know, again, is this my. My romanticism and longing for Northumbria coloring my views?
- [48:27]
Matt Lewis
It's very difficult to see in a thousand years. Since all a thousand years, the Vikings have had many makeovers. And yes, everybody I know who's ever had the DNA tested has had it tested to See if they got Viking blood. Yeah. Now, 30 years ago and for a while the most popular movie hero was Arnold Schwarzename as the Terminator, a psychopathic robot. And yet, you know, because in a way these characters, it's the Achilles type character, the rogue warrior, the great hero who if nothing else is not deficient in courage certainly. And who squares up to his enemies and beats them in a fair fight. Who is a great warrior still has a resonance today. We like these type of characters. Richard III is a lot more popular than his brother Edward iv. And he was, you know, Cardinals would tell me he wasn't a bad guy. He was really very, very nice book and he was just unlucky with a number of people who had to die around it that we like the bad boys. Bad boys are fun. Jesse James is fun, Butch Cassidy's fun. All the nice guys of history are not necessarily that. They're not exciting. They might do the Dr. Livingston, these people, you know, they're great humanity. Mother Teresa's, all the rest. They're John Wesley's. They're nice people that do a lot of good. But yeah, they're bloody boring. Really quite bash anybody.
- [49:38]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah. Kids in the backyard are not going to be playing, I don't know, Charles the Fourth and establishing churches everywhere. You know, they want to, they want to be a Viking. They want to hit each other with sticks, you know. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely bang on here. There is this, this tendency for us to put all of our eggs into the heroic basket. And certainly I think we can all agree that Eric Blondax is this big heroic figure. But do you think he's an actually successful ruler or is he just dramatic?
- [50:05]
Matt Lewis
Well, if you look at it, and he was King of Norway a very short time. King of Northumbia twice for two very short times in his 70 year career. So no, he's not successful. He's not a successful statesman. He is an epic warrior. He's certainly a trier. He's still trying 70 and he clearly commanded a lot of respect and regard from his contemporaries. He was clearly superb material for the saga writers and he fulfills the romantic image of the Vahis Baba. If you look at the statue of Leiv Eriksson next to the cathedral in Reykjavik, he doesn't look anything like Leich Eriksen Life. Eric was short and fat. He was short, fat, rather squat. But the guy, the statue looks like Kirk Douglas. You know, he's square jaw, lantern jaw. He looks really ready for anything. He looks like a heroic figure. But come on the end of the Vikings in the duel. Are you hoping for Tony Curtis or Kirk Dunster? Would you want Kurt Kurgs to win? I do. He doesn't, but never mind, because he can't, because he's a bad boy. But somehow he's a more attractive character. Absolutely.
- [51:01]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I think one of the reasons why we end up talking about Eric as well is he's able to kind of pop up in movies and in TV and in works of fiction because we've this story about him and he does. Right. Like, you know, you're like, oh, here's Eric, like in. In some film about the Vikings. You know, this sort of thing.
- [51:18]
Matt Lewis
I mean, the Victorians obviously were great romantics. They loved romantic stories. And in Victorian times, there was a lot of interest in Norse forebears, this idea of a heroic age of Norsemen. And then, of course, that gets hijacked in the 1930s by the Nazis again, who use these great Nordic imagery to support their own warped beliefs in weird and completely mad racial theories. So you can cast the Vikings in a number of molds. And it's easy because the Vikings fall into so many molds, and they didn't have a mold for themselves. They were just what they were, what they were, what they did. It was the way they were. They didn't necessarily think about it. That was their world. And they then proved over the years to be quite malleable heroes as well as being combina their shipbuilding, these astonishing craft that they built. And they sailed him across the world's ocean. You know, they discovered Iceland. They'd probably just go nice and discovered Greenland and sailed to the Americas. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty impressive.
- [52:17]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
You know, there's a reason why we talk about them and, you know, even me as kind of. I guess I'm. I'm Viking agnostic, you know, because I'm at times incredibly impressed by them, and I really love them, and at times I am really horrified by what they do. So, you know, I think Eric Bloodaxe is one of these guys who just encapsulates all of that. You know, he's got the best and the worst of everything. He's bringing the dramatic action that we want to see and giving us these stories. You know, we're gossiping about him a thousand years after his death, you know, one way or another, whether or not he's successful. He's fun to talk about, he's fun to think about.
- [52:55]
Matt Lewis
One of the most success having TV series in the last, what, 10 years has been Vikings and the Main character, played by Travis Trimmel, who's very good looking, is Ragnar Lothbrok, who may or may not have existed and from whom Eric did obviously claim descent because he's the archetypal vital ancestor. And no, he wasn't a very nice man. He was a savage. If you had been on Lindisfarne in 793, if it was he or whoever trashed Lindisfarne, you know, if you switch on the table and you look at the pictures of dumbed and terrified refugees and the horror of Gaza and other places, that's what Lindisfarne looked like. So we shouldn't get too carried away by glorifying these guys. If you are on the receiving end of their interest, then there's nothing you wrote about them at all. They were bad guys and they did terrible things.
- [53:39]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
That's history, baby. Right? Like that's the kind of.
- [53:42]
Matt Lewis
That is history.
- [53:43]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
That's the entire point of doing it, you know, is we take these horrible things and these difficult people and we synthesize the information and we tell the stories from a safe remove. It allows us this ability to romanticize and to hypothesize. And you need that remove, I think, because otherwise you do get bogged down in the. The human misery that that is endemic.
- [54:05]
Matt Lewis
If you think was. If in terms of propaganda, what is the most successful movie from the Scottish nationalist party point of view ever made? It's Braveheart. You watch Braveheart, it is complete tosh. There are a lot of people who take his gospel and Mel Gibson's version of William Wallace was very cleverly constructed. Becomes the norm now. The reality was William Wallace wasn't Australian. He was a foot taller than Mel Gibson. He probably hated the English even less than Mel Gibson. And it would mean seeing dead wearing a skirt. Even today that film's maybe what, 95, 30 years old. It's become iconic because it gives us a view of history that we enjoy.
- [54:44]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
This is the beauty of Eric Bloodaxe and why I think he makes such a wonderful subject for all of us. And I guess I can't thank you enough for coming on and complicating the easy heroic picture. You know, I do love good gossip about a Viking. What can I say? Thanks to John Sadler and to you for listening to Gone Medieval from history hit Remember. You can enjoy unlimited access to award winning original TV documentaries, including my recent series Meet the Normans and ad free podcasts by signing up@historyhit.com subscription. You can follow Gone Medieval on Spotify, where you can leave us comments, suggestions, or wherever you get your podcasts. And tell all your friends and family that you've gone medieval. Until next time. It's Holy Week in Jerusalem. The people want revolution.
- [55:42]
Matt Lewis
Their leaders want an execution.
- [55:45]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
The world will never be the same.
- [55:47]
Matt Lewis
Now in theaters the Chosen Last Supper get your tickets now.
- [55:52]
John Sadler
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