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- [00:01]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis.
- [00:03]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
And I'm Dr. Eleanor Yonega and we're.
- [00:05]
Matt Lewis
Just popping up here to tell you some insider info.
- [00:08]
Kate Lister
If you would like to listen to Gone Medieval ad free and get early.
- [00:12]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Access and bonus episodes, sign up to.
- [00:14]
Matt Lewis
History Hit with the History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries such as my new.
- [00:21]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Series on everyone's favorite conquerors, the Normans.
- [00:25]
Matt Lewis
Or my recent exploration of the castles that made Britain.
- [00:29]
Kate Lister
There's a new release to enjoy every week.
- [00:32]
Matt Lewis
Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe or find the link in the show Notes for this episode.
- [00:50]
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- [02:39]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval From History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details and latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the printing press from Kings to popes to the Crusades. We cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots and murders, to find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here, find out who we really were with. Gone Medieval. Welcome to this episode of Gone Medieval. I'm Matt Lewis. There's nothing like a visit to the coast. I do love an ice cream and a walk along the seafront. It's even better if it leads to an arcade at the end. Well, what if you could add history even to this? One of life's pleasures, too? A new series of the BBC's villages by the Sea has landed on our screens and on iplayer. So it seemed like a perfect excuse to invite the host of the program and archaeologist Ben Robinson back to talk a bit more about the things that might be right under your nose at your favorite seaside destination. Welcome back to Gone Medieval. Ben. It's fantastic to have you back with us.
- [04:10]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
It's a pleasure to be here.
- [04:12]
Matt Lewis
And you're back out around the coasts of Britain finding wonderful villages again. It must be exciting to be back into a new series of Villages by the sea.
- [04:21]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
It is. It's wonderful. My explorations of our wonderful coastline and the great contrast that you find just within a few miles, contrasts in history and environment. Absolutely extraordinary. We are so lucky in this country, so lucky to have this wonderful resource, I suppose you could call it. But also it's a resource for inspiration, isn't it? Discussion, exploration of our past.
- [04:46]
Matt Lewis
It is. And what I find so interesting about the series is it really drives home how much we are in danger of taking for granted. That you can go to almost any seaside town and there will be so much stuff all around you and under your feet is so easy to miss.
- [05:01]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
We forget we're an island nation. No one is more than 70 miles from the sea. You might not think you're connected to maritime history. You might not think you've got anything to do with the sea at all. Even in Birmingham, you will be. You will find there are connections to the sea, both in its history. There's even a sea life center there today, by the way, somewhat bizarrely. But no one. We go for a day trip. We might go for holidays. But our history has been shaped by that interface with the wider world. Our coast, it's our interface face with the wider world. It's not a fringe land. It's not the back of beyond. It's how we communicated with the rest of the world and where important events took place.
- [05:43]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. And I guess that's really really true in the medieval world. So I'm going to drill us down because obviously you cover all sorts of periods of history, but having gone medieval here, I'm going to drag you a little bit closer to the medieval portions of what you cover in Villages by the Sea. It obviously spans all kinds of periods of history, but we're gonna really focus on the medieval ones. Perhaps unsurprisingly, for a podcast called Gone Medieval.
- [06:06]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Well, and, you know, everything goes back to the medieval period. It's such a formative period, you know, a lot of things change. So, yes, you're quite within your rights to stress that.
- [06:17]
Matt Lewis
I'm glad you said that because I'm fond of saying that everything is medieval, really. So now you've said it, I don't have to say it anymore. Wonderful. There was one episode that was particularly interesting where you visited St Agnes's in Cornwall and that exposed some interesting information about the tin trade, which is something we haven't particularly talked about on Gone Medieval before. But the tin industry was really pivotal to England's medieval economy, wasn't it?
- [06:40]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, and it goes right back. Like a lot of things originate in the medieval period. A lot of what happened in the medieval period originates a lot earlier as well. So the classical world knew about Cornish tin, knew about British tin. And amazing objects. That Nebra sky disk, I don't know if you can picture it, was on display in the British Museum. It's actually found in Germany, about a foot in diameter, a bronze disc, gold studded, an incredible object. One of the best finds, archaeological finds that there's been dating to about 1600, 1800 BC. So firmly bronze Age. The tin in that came from Cornwall. It ended up in Germany, way back in prehistory. And we know that Cornish tin was being used in tools and weapons right back into the Bronze Age in coins in Roman times. And clearly that sort of legacy continued into the medieval period. Post Roman period, they're clearly trading tin as well. But into the medieval period, Cornwall becomes one of the main providers of tin for the whole of Europe. And that's just an extraordinary thing to think about, isn't it?
- [07:55]
Matt Lewis
And I guess that gives Cornwall a fairly interesting and possibly slightly unique outlook in that presumably it had a really strong connection with the continent, perhaps more so than many other regions of England during this period.
- [08:08]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, I mean, extraordinarily in immediate post Roman times, that incredible settlement at Tintagel there, that's trading with the Mediterranean world. The rest of England might be looking towards northwest Europe and becoming firmly Anglo Saxon. Anglian, Jutish, all that kind of stuff. But in Cornwall, they're still looking to the Mediterranean world and trading with the Mediterranean, Mediterranean world. So, you know, it's things like that, it's the history, it's the legacy, it's the cultural influences, the language that makes Cornwall distinctive, doesn't it? Cornwall and Devon, that southwest, it's very different to the rest of the country. It is.
- [08:48]
Matt Lewis
I think, even up till today, you know, Cornwall will think of itself as quite different from the rest of the uk, and you quite often get those campaigns for Cornwall to become an independent nation. And it genuinely really does hark back to all of this different relationship and different connection that Cornwall had from many other parts of Britain.
- [09:05]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
We could think about the way that the country was organized. You could say that about other parts of the country. It's particularly strong because there's the language. But if we think about it, the idea of an England as a whole as being cohesive is really, really recent. Again, that's something that the medieval period starts to sort of crystallize for us, but only really late in the medieval period as well. You know, you think about those individual kingdoms in early medieval medieval times, the East Anglias, the Northumbrias, you know, Mercias and all that kind of thing. Other places could claim to have that distinctiveness, and that distinctiveness ought to persist through, but it does in some places more than others. And in Cornwall especially, it persists through, doesn't it?
- [09:50]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, it's fascinating. And so what did you actually uncover at St Agnes to connect it to tin? What can viewers expect to see in the show?
- [09:58]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
It's really, really interesting, this tin industry, because we know it was important. We know Cornish tin, when you analyze it, crops up in all sorts of artifacts in coinage across Europe and indeed, you know, into the Mediterranean as well as far as Israel it goes. It's traded far and wide. But finding traces of medieval tin mining is actually quite difficult because later workings tend to obliterate it. And it's another one of those extraordinary things that even in the early documents, the great source we have about what's going on in the country when William the Conqueror takes over the Doomsday Survey, the Doomsday Books, tin isn't mentioned at all. We know it was really, really important, but it's not mentioned. I guess that's because, like a lot of things that were prominent and not mentioned in Doomsday Survey, it wasn't a matter for any dispute about taxation. This is so important. It's controlled by the Crown. The crown's going to look after it, thank you very much. We don't need to be worrying about assessing it. So I guess that's the reason it was. So it was definitely there in records and certainly into the late 1100s. There are charters and references to it, it's in the pipe rolls, there are mentions to it and royalty is taking a massive interest in what's going on down there. So you've got that bit of documentary evidence, but the physical traces are quite difficult to find. In Devon, which was also a tin producing area. On Dartmoor, you've got these great gouges in the hillside, but again, it's very difficult to date what's going on. You have to do it by a sort of roundabout route. You're not lucky enough to find a document or an inscribed stone there on site, saying, and this is where we were mining for tin in 1224. You know, it's not like that, or even sort of pottery and stuff. It's through sediment analysis and where that sediment analysis fits in the sequence. And one of the things they were doing really early on, which again doesn't leave much of a trace except in sediments, is a thing called streaming, where you weren't quarrying or tunneling or digging for tin ore, you were finding it in alluvial deposits washed out of hillsides into stream beds. The ore as pebbles, rocks, gravel, sand, sediment, which you would then filter out. So you can imagine that doesn't leave much of a trace. But there are these gouges in the hillside which seem to be very, very early on Dartmoor and various other places down the Cornish coast as well, one of which I had a look at and they'd literally, they've obviously got fed up with trying to get tin out of bits of streams and sediments and they've gone whack. We'll go straight through the cliff face here and see if we can find any. It's really quite difficult to find. It's a rare mineral, it's almost as rare as silver in many ways and really difficult to get out. The other thing you tend to find is there's stones, hard granite stones, blocks which they use to pound and crush the ore on, and these you can find scattered all over the place. You will see them all over the place. And it's. Imagine a massive pestle and mortar, a huge great bit of wood, perhaps iron shod as well, pounding down onto this stone and creating a hollow in it. Eventually, when the stones got to that point where there was too much of A hollow in them. They were discarded when they were about to break. So you find these in places as well. So this is a hard won material, an extensive industry that nevertheless the traces of it are fairly difficult to find.
- [13:41]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. And how does it show itself at St Agnes? Is there physical evidence there of the tin mining?
- [13:47]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, there is. I mean there's a big gouge in the cliff face where you can sort of think, well, these must have been early workings. After they'd finished with the streaming, they've gone in and tried to find the seams directly. Highly specialized job actually. It's not just a matter of brute force and ignorance. To identify the ore is a real skill. And these miners, they had superb skills in this regard and they were obviously known for a long time. And so we had a look at those, we saw some of these stones, these blocks of granite that had been used as pounding stones to crush the ore as well. There's a collection of these in the village. And I also got an insight into how when they started to mechanize these processes of extracting the tin from the ore, how that actually worked in practice. Because there's a place there called Blue Hills Tin and there they operate. It's a 19th century water wheel operated stamping mill, or hammer mill as they call it. But these started to come in in medieval times, water powered. So they stopped doing it by hand late in the medieval period and used water wheels to create these huge crushing mills. And these machines are extraordinary. It's imagine like a water mill, you've got a big water wheel. In this case it was an overshot wheel. The stream comes in at the top, the leak comes in at the top, rotates this big wheel. This rotates a drum with cams on it. And those cams lift up these huge great telegraph pole, like pieces of wood that have got iron feet on them. And these pound down onto stones onto which the ore is put. And that crushes out the ore into ever finer sediment that then washes out. Just to see this thing going, I mean, this guy still produces tin in that traditional method all through water power. There's no electricity or anything else at all. And he makes the most wonderful artifacts from the ingots that it extracts from the ore. And it's a real insight into how this industry would have operated in late medieval times, right into the 19th century, all water power. I won't say it's environmentally friendly because they were whacking great holes out of the hillside and dumping spoil everywhere and actually creating a heck of a mess. It almost makes me laugh, actually. People sort of say, oh, Cornwall, you know, great natural landscape, beautiful coastal landscapes. These are industrial landscapes and they're industrial landscapes from the medieval period onwards. These are intensively worked and exploited landscapes. So, yeah, it's a real insight to hear this thing thumping and crashing away and think about the dozens and dozens of these that there would have been in many parishes throughout Cornwall and Devon as well. The smelting, you know, the ore was roasted on site very often. The. The busyness, the noise of it all, the industry that was going on there, just incredible.
- [16:56]
Matt Lewis
And it must be one of the great pleasures of doing this kind of archaeology, this kind of practical archaeology almost, that you can get close to what people were doing all of those centuries ago. You know, it might be a 19th century mill that they're using now, but as you say, the principles are the same. So you can stand there and see the process and hear the sounds and watch the machinery that would have been doing this during the medieval period, hundreds of years ago.
- [17:19]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. And just thinking about the implications for everyday life and who it involved. And it was quite clear, you know, from later records that we have, that this is a whole family affair. It's not just miners, blokes going down with picks, hacking this stuff out, bringing back to the surface the ore to be prepared. Initially they had people called balance maidens, women, girls would be wielding great sledgehammers to smash up the oar. And again, it's not something in history that you think about particularly, but there they were doing that work and children overseeing the Buddha or the other bits of the process. By the way, there's some wonderful language, ancient language, connected with all this stuff. So you've got the bowel maidens. The bow is an old Cornish word for mine. But you'll also see the word wheel as well. Lots of mines, wheel coats, wheel kitty, one of my favorites. And wheel means workings and that's a very old word that goes right back. There's a sort of rich culture that goes right back to medieval times, probably even before that. You can still see written in place names in the landscape.
- [18:35]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. So many incredible connections. Is it possible to get a sense of how important the tin trade was to somewhere like St. Agnes? Do we see St. Agnes maybe booming off the back of the tin trade, or is the money going somewhere else?
- [18:47]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Well, it was all about royal control. It was such an important resource that the Crown set up a series of administrative districts called stannaries. And there's an old Cornish word for tin, which is Sten, obviously there's the Latin word, it gets its chemical symbol from the Latin word sn. So you've got. It's stannum, isn't it? Tin in Latin, so sten in Cornish. So these stannaries are administrative districts really, that where there is a special law, there are parliaments in fact, to determine how to control this massive resource on behalf of the Crown. And you get the stannery towns, towns that are allowed to smelt the tin and mint coins and that kind of stuff as well. So that gives you a sense of how important it was and how much control there was. They weren't going to leave this to a few local landlords to look after and hope to cream off taxes in that way. They wanted more control over it and to recognize it was something different just to agricultural resources or fishing resources or anything else, something really quite precious. So as I say, you know, the medieval references to it, they're very concerned royalty in the medieval period about how much tin is being produced, where, according, how many tonnes have come out of various places. Yeah.
- [20:22]
Matt Lewis
Which I guess must be a testament to the importance of the tin trade internationally that the Crown is taking a close interest in it all.
- [20:29]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, something we can export. I mean, it's not just for our tables. I mean, obviously the medieval world, you get a picture of those heaving banqueting tables, they're heaving with not just food but pewter and pewter is tin and lead and there's tankards and platters and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, if you can export this to other countries about trade deficits, it's about your international profiles, about having a resource that someone else wants and people really did want this stuff. The legacy of the medieval mining, the expertise that they had, they're industrializing it. They're starting to use horsepowered pumps, water powered pumps, to mine ever deeper in the medieval period. They're starting to mechanize the process of crushing the ore and stamping and hammer mills. All that feeds into what happens next, which is you start to get the steam engines taking over very, very early in the 18th century. People start to think, wow, this is so important, we need to apply modern technology to it. And this is where you get the Cornish engines, Newcomen engine engines, Bolton and Watt, you know, trying to get ever deeper into these mines. And that leads to the great Cornish views, the coastal views almost now defined in some areas by those tall engine houses built of looking like church towers with their chimneys attached to them. And it's incredible, it's amazing to think that they were gearing up to that level of industry from that medieval basis of this isn't just a cottage industry, this isn't just something we do on the side. This is so important that we're going to go at it. Seriously.
- [22:11]
Matt Lewis
Yeah.
- [22:12]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Fantastic.
- [22:12]
Matt Lewis
And just before we leave St Agnes behind us, this blew my mind a little bit. It's still medieval. So Cornish pasties, what do they have to do with Mexico?
- [22:24]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
It's the expertise, it's that long heritage of knowing how to construct, engineer and extract, construct a mine and extract this precious ore. And the expertise that goes down through generations is in Cornish families, in Cornish workers. So when in other parts of the world they start to discover, well, we have tin ore too. We could start, but we just don't have the know how. Then one of the major exports of Cornwall was these well informed engineers and workers. And we talk about the Irish diaspora, we talk about the Scottish diaspora. The Cornish diaspora is extraordinary as well. And that's something I hadn't fully appreciated. So out in Australia, out in the Middle East, Asia, anywhere where there's tin resources or silver or copper or anything to be mined, and in South America too. And one of the exports, apart from the know how, the knowledge to extract tin and silver was the Cornish pasty. This very practical piece of food which you could take down a mine or eat that, that, you know, you could discard the crust that was all dirty, the bit you were holding it on. And so in Mexico, in a town in Mexico, you have a great pasty tradition outside of Cornwall, and indeed a pasty museum and various localized variants on the recipes with chili beans and all sorts in them, but Cornish pasties nonetheless. And that, you know, what an incredible legacy that is, how influential this trade, this industry, this know how has been across the world. Kordish miners started off mines all over the world.
- [24:29]
Kate Lister
I'll have to keep my voice down because right now I'm between the actual bedsheets of some of history's most famous figures. Want to know more about what Hitler might have been like in the sack? Or Julius Caesar? Or our very own Billy Shakespeare? You wouldn't believe the details I'm able to uncover here on Betwixt the Sheets, a podcast by History hit. Because sexuality explored through a historical lens can reveal a surprising amount about the human experience, warts and all, if you'll excuse the pun. And we don't just stop at sex. Expect outrageous scandals throughout the centuries as well as probing into everyday issues. The nitty gritty of human life that really connects us to all people throughout history. Join me, Kate Lister, every Tuesday and Friday on Betwixt the Sheets to find out more. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Right, time to slide out of here and avoid the bedpan.
- [25:25]
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Dr. Eleanor Yonega
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- [25:55]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Thanks.
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- [26:52]
Matt Lewis
Fantastic. It's incredible legacy of this small region, you know, on the tip of the end of England, having an influence all around the world to the point where you have a Cornish pasty museum in Mexico. I mean, that's news to me. That's incredible. What other interesting medieval marvels can people expect to see in this series of.
- [27:11]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Villages by the sea? I hope we start to appreciate that the richness of the medieval world and the contrasting nature of it, a sophisticated world and settlements, you know, you think, oh well, you know, they're by the coast, they're doing a bit of fishing. In Cornwall we've seen there's a lot of industry going on, but sometimes settlements grew through other slightly strange or mysterious reasons where ordinarily they might not grow at all. So there's a long tradition going back to early medieval times of religious founders, early saints settling on islands or in coastal locations and either being inviting there by the local kings or kind of fleeing there for refuge. And at Saint Bees in Cumbria, there's this extraordinary tale. I mean, the village only really exists in the form that exists today because of religion and this legend or tradition that an Irish lady named St. Bega was fleeing a forced marriage to a Viking and this was supposed to have happened by some accounts, in the middle of the seventh century. But of course it wasn't until the middle of the night that the Vikings are having much to do, or certainly the late 8th century into the middle of the night that the Vikings having much to do with Ireland. So it might have been around 850, actually. But anyway, there's this tradition that this St Bega arrives and lives in her own cell there, probably doesn't found a monastery, but lives this quiet life. And like all good saints, she eventually moves on, potentially to Northumberland. But the sources are all really confused and where they come from, later medieval sources, where they're trying to legitimize what happens next. And they, like a lot of places, they use the excuse of this saying, you can't help feeling to grab a bit of land where they really want some land to do what they really want to do. And in this case it was St. Mary's Abbey in York, getting a claim to this piece of land and founding a priory there in 1120, ultimately. But there was obviously some form of religious establishment there, because the stonework, early crosses, wonderful decorated interlaced crosses are there. So there was obviously some grain of truth to this story. But again, like a lot of medieval saint stories, especially the early ones, they're very obscure and you can just sort of see someone contriving to make this all work in history and to legitimize what they're going to do next. Just down the road from me is a place called St Ives, and it was given a market charter and became quite a famous fair. This is not St Ives in Cornwall, this is St Ives in Huntingdonshire, and it was Ramsey Abbey nearby that obviously wanted some land on this riverbank, bridging point, trading place, good marketplace. So some ploughman is said to have dug up a stone coffin in which they declared were the bones of St Ivo, a wandering Persian saint who no one had ever heard of, who no one thought should be anywhere near that area, but that was enough to say, right, but this little place formerly called Sleep, which means Muddy Riverbank, we're going to call St Ives, it's going to have a market charter, we're going to have a priory there, it'll be part of our lands. And I suspect something similar was going on in Cumbria there. I'm not saying she didn't exist, but it was a sort of convenient thing that she alighted there. And then, of course, you have to have some miracles. Any good saint has to have a miracle or two. And of course, she has this bracelet to which miracles are attributed. It becomes she supposedly moves on, but the bracelet is left there and you know, it does all the usual things of curing people. People swear oaths on it. And there's one particularly fascinating so called miracle that really gets the cult going and that's that in that border region you get a lot of trouble from the Scots. I mean, the English did it the other way, of course, but there's this tale that some ne'er do well from. Galloway has said to his mum, well, I'm going off raiding across the border. And his mum says, well, don't go on St Bega's land, leave that alone, you know. And he says, what's that old woman going to do to me, Shoot me here? And he exposes his bum and of course he goes off, he's raiding and looting. And as he's fleeing away with his ill gotten gain, someone looses an arrow and guess where it hits him. And this, this was attributed as a miracle of St Bega, you see. And then there's all the usual stuff about, you know, curing people, all that kind of thing as well.
- [31:56]
Matt Lewis
I think it's so much fun. Amongst miracles of curing people and everything else, getting someone shot in the backside is enough to make you a saint.
- [32:03]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Oh, well, that's a mentally practical thing to do if you're being raided all the time as well, isn't it? So it serves as a warning to folk. So various relics, including this bracelet, are obtained there. And these have a sort of serious purpose in the medieval world as well, because people will swear oaths on this thing, any sort of transaction, any sort of promise, you swear it on Saint Bega's bracelet or on her altar in the church. And the priory that's founded there from 1120 onwards becomes a place of pilgrimage. And they hark right back. Even as late as the 16th century, they're harking back to the miracles and the tradition of St Bega. So way into the 16th century. And then in the 16th century you have have born into this small village that's only grown up really because of the Priory being there. A chap called Edmund Grindal, who becomes Archbishop of Canterbury during this amazingly turbulent period right at the end, you know, the medieval period into Elizabeth's reign. And one of his legacies there is to found a school. And that school, based on the former priory established right at the end of the 16th century, Saint Bees School survives to this day. One of its pupils was Rowan Atkinson.
- [33:26]
Matt Lewis
Oh, wow.
- [33:27]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
And I can't can't help feeling that he got some of his inspiration for those brilliant vicar figures that he does. Those coutures of vicar figures and schoolmasters from his time absent Bees. They're all very different now, of course, I'm sure. Well, they are because I met them. Very nice people indeed. But that school persists into this day. But it's only there. We only have the school there. We only have. Have much of the village there because of this saintly figure who arrived all that time ago.
- [34:00]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, incredible. And you also come across some Bees man, which is somebody that has cropped up in an episode with Eleanor recently, with the Fabulous Joe Buckbury, where they talked about the remains of Saint Be's man. But I was quite interested in. So they talked about his body and his remains, but I was quite interested in how he was discovered there and what he's doing buried on the coast at Saint Bees.
- [34:25]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, it's really intriguing, isn't it? I mean, as an archaeologist myself, I've excavated a lot of bodies and some of them in coffins, stone coffins, some of them even in lead. And you generally find, even though the preservation can be very, very good, it's preservation of bone material. And there at Saint Bees, this was utterly extraordinary. The lead capsule had led to this burial environment which just extraordinary preservation. I mean, you know, organs still weeping blood and so forth, eyeballs still intact, all that sort of thing. It was quite gruesome, actually. They've got a little display case there, not with those remains in, because thankfully he's been reburied, but there's a sample of hair in the shroud he was buried in, that kind of stuff. It's just extraordinary. More people should know about this because it really is one of the great archaeological discoveries, but one which any archaeologist opening up a coffin, seeing a lead coffin inside and thinking, oh, hang on. Or a lead capsule inside in this case. Oh, hang on, this is a bit. And then opening it up and being confronted by that, it must have been an amazing shock to them. And then working out who this person was has been quite a story. Lots of people have thrown a lot of energy at it and again, you're not so lucky to have an inscription or direct account. But it seems to be a connection through his sister, actually, who was also discovered there and who married into the Percy family and they found this joint de Lucy and Percy coat of arms in the tower and knew that the place had been connected with the Lucy and Percy families. And it's a burial that seems to have occurred because of an association with the place, a benefactor of the place. We know Anthony de Lucy this night, we know that he was involved in border raids and so forth. So in that part of the world, probably one of the bother boys that was going over to harm the Scots or retaliate for raids on England. And it's really extraordinary actually, because he was sent back from the Northern Crusades where they would go off and fight Teutonic knights and so forth. They'd go off into central Europe and he was obviously carefully packaged up when he and sent back home or to the place where he wished to be buried. Again, just extraordinary. It just sort of shows really, history is being discovered all the time, new history. And very often it's the physical presence, it's the artifacts, it's the archeology that is then mated with the documents to come up with an interpretation of what happened. It's so important. History happened in places, it happened to people, people were involved with it. And here you've got all of that and new discoveries being made. You know, it's a very dynamic thing, isn't it, when you put together history with archaeology.
- [37:32]
Kate Lister
I'll have to keep my voice down because right now I'm between the actual bedsheets of some of history's most famous figures. Want to know more about what Hitler might have been like in the sack? Or Julius Caesar? Or our very own Billy Shakespeare? You wouldn't believe the details I'm able to uncover here on Betwixt the Sheets, a podcast by historyhit. Because sexuality explored through a historical lens can reveal a surprising amount about the human experience, warts and all, if you'll excuse the pun. And we don't just stop at sex. Expect outrageous scandals throughout the century as well as probing into everyday issues. The nitty gritty of human life that really connects us to all people throughout history. Join me, Kate Lister, every Tuesday and Friday on Betwixt the Sheets to find out more. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Right, time to slide out of here and avoid the bedpan.
- [38:29]
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- [39:11]
Matt Lewis
If people want to know more About St Beesman. You can go back and listen to Eleanor's episode with Joe Buckbrey to discover a bit more about the remains. But just that fact of this guy, who is abroad fighting in the Teutonic Crusades and wants to be brought back to England, knows where he wants to be buried. And then his body is so well preserved that hundreds of years later, to find it in that condition is absolutely incredible discovery. And as you say, it really plays into that idea that people have this connection to place. So he knew where he wanted to be buried. You can see the physical connections of him to that place and he wanted to be returned there. It really shows the. The human connection that we have to the places around us. And, you know, in this case, a village by the sea.
- [39:57]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. And how extraordinary that this place, Saint Bees, connected with this ancient story, connected with Ireland, with Scotland, with movement between these places, but also, you know, to Lithuania via this figure from medieval history. This night, I suspect it was a bit like a rugby tour. You know, troublemakers is going off and letting off steam in this Northern Crusade and they joined up with the Teutonic Knights to try and sort of hammer the Lithuanians there. But again, it opens up a little facet of history. I mean, this is something people have heard of the Crusades and going obviously to the Holy Lands and so forth, but the Northern Crusades really, you know, in the 14th century, you know, is that a thing? Well, it certainly was. And it left its mark not just on Poor There, but on Saint Bees as well.
- [40:49]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. It does sometimes have the ring of a lad's weekend in Ibiza heading off to the Northern Crusades for a bit of fighting. It's kind of the medieval equivalent of that sort of thing, isn't it?
- [40:59]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. Not as far to go as way down into Palestine or anywhere like that. Bit more convenient. You can get there and back a bit quicker if you can't deal with.
- [41:07]
Matt Lewis
The hot weather either, you know, just head off to the Northern Crusades.
- [41:11]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. Maybe it's a seasonal thing.
- [41:14]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah, it could well be. And there are also some sea houses in Northumberland that you come across as well.
- [41:21]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. The village of Seahouses, which many people will know as a great place to go and have ice cream, fish and chips, lovely seafood there. Trip out to the Farne island, another set of islands, by the way, populated by some of those early pioneer saints. And Aidan and St Cuthbert set up home out on the Farne Islands there. You can go out on a boat trip and explore the wildlife there and the history of those places. But seahouses itself has often been overlooked. But it has a fascinating history, but also it brings home this connection to the places around it. A lot of places on the coast were not terribly significant in the medieval period. There was a bit of fishing going on on a few cottages. But the main center of the parish, the main village, was inland. And that was the case here. It was at North Sunderland, the village just inland. And it was mostly about agriculture, farming, the fields and all that kind of stuff. And the reason you get the name Sea Houses is that's actually what it was. It was North Sunderland Sea Houses. So you'll find this time and time again, the main parish church, the main center of the medieval area, was a bit inland. They were a little bit suspicious of what was going on on the coast or only wanted to do a little bit of fishing there. And of course, you're a bit vulnerable on the coast as well. And this is a place which grew Sea Houses to be the dominant settlement in the area, all under the auspices of the local landowners, the Crew Trust, based at Bamborough Castle and other great movers and shakers and entrepreneurs. But that's a little bit after medieval times. It's a place that sort of rose from a bit of medieval obscurity, apart from the famous medieval saints just offshore, and became really very important in post medieval times.
- [43:18]
Matt Lewis
So I guess it's really interesting with that idea of the sea houses, that whilst we're thinking about the medieval connection to the sea, there is also that element of a kind of disconnect or a bit of suspicion or a desire to be a bit distant from the sea. And maybe there's the dangers of it.
- [43:34]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, obviously specialized settlements growing up near the sea, so you can make use of its resources. But, you know, a large part of the medieval world was very reliant on agriculture, of course, and what you could grow in the fields around. So, you know, take somewhere like St Margaret's in Kent, another village that's transformed enormously over time. The core of it is a medieval farming settlement, Norman. It's got a wonderful Norman church, absolutely spectacular. And it was obviously an important place, possibly another monastic foundation from a house elsewhere originally. But you've got this lovely Norman architecture, this great church, but it's inland, it's a mile or so inland and it's surrounded by a typical medieval village with its high street, its back lanes, its individual plot, and. And obviously it would have had its medieval fields around as well. And it was mostly an agricultural settlement. But there it is right on the coast. So there's a few fishing cottages down in the bay. There's a little bit of fishing going on coming back, but it's mainly a traditional agricultural settlement of the type you would get all over Kent and, in fact, all over England as well. But this place is utterly transformed again into the modern era. It goes on doing its medieval thing well into the 18th, 19th century, until some of the lords of the area decide, well, we can turn this into a resort down in the bay there. And that's what they do. With the coming of the railways, they create basically a version of Hollywood there. So a lot of people who go to St. Margaret's or St. Margaret's Bay will see these amazingly posh villas. Noel Coward had a house down there right on the seafront, and that's still there. And they will sort of see this and. And perhaps neglect to think about the little medieval village that is the original St. Margaret's that kicked it all off. It's that thing, sort of the way places transform through time and the physical evidence we can see around us. And I would just urge anyone to. Well, I play a little game, actually, with myself. They say a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and it probably is, but it's also something which, if you take out into the field and walk around, you might spot things. You know, the bit of ridge and furrow, the church standing on its own, the strange humps and bump in the field, and ask yourself, what is that all about? And you might ponder it. You come up with some guesses, have a competition with who you're walking with as to what it might be, and then I bet you can go home, you can go online, you can look up the local historic environment record. Many of them have now got interactive maps that you can explore that will show what has been found in various fields, what the monuments are, who's discovered what, where. You can click on these points and say, yeah, I was right, that was part of a medieval village that's no longer there. Or, oh, no, I was totally wrong, those were old bits of quarry working or whatever. For me, it's the places that these questions spring from. What can you see? Of course, the written history gives us a lot, but it doesn't give us everything. And it's that experience of being in a place and thinking, what made this place tick? What was it like? Can we think ourselves back into medieval times on the basis of what we see around us?
- [47:05]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, fascinating. I mean, that sounds like a great game, because it strikes me that it Sounds a bit like people watching. But you can go home and find the answers and find out whether you were right or wrong. Well, you can't really do that when you're people watching, can you? It's rude to go and ask them whether you're right about the things you think about them.
- [47:20]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. And of course, it's not as if everything is totally definitive. You know, put 10 archaeologists in a room and they'll come up with 15 interpretations of what they see. But nevertheless, these records are wonderful inventories of the observations that people have made, and they're much more accessible than they were even just a few years ago. And it's really fun, actually. You know, every little hump and bump, every little meander of a road, every little fragment of walling, whatever it is that you see will have a meaning in the past. It will have been part of something in the past. It may only be fragmentary now, but you can click on these maps and if someone has excavated or made an observation, you will discover what that is. And, I don't know, sometimes you'll find that you're right about a lot of stuff. Sometimes you'll be completely wrong and everyone can take the mick out of you.
- [48:16]
Matt Lewis
But it must be great for someone in your position, though, to see that ever increasing intersection of documentary evidence with archeological evidence and technology coming in and wider access to a lot of those things is kind of. It's improving the way that we do history, but also opening it up to everybody, to new audiences.
- [48:36]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Yeah, there's something for everyone. I mean, there are people who love diving into the records, and there's nothing more exciting than coming across something written in someone's hand all that time ago or, you know, that touching. Getting close to the hand that actually produced this history is really, really exciting. But similarly, being in a place where events happened, where things happened in the past that developed through medieval times, that's an experience as well. And these days, I think we're much better at working more collaboratively on these things to explore our past. I think, you know, there have been times when the historians have disagreed with the archaeologists, and, you know, it's been a bit of a sort of battle, been very dismissive of each other's evidence. I don't get the sense that occurs much at all now. And things like Saint Bees, man, where you have to put the evidence all together to come up with answers. And, you know, Richard in the car park as well, it just. It shows the power of bringing these disciplines together, working collaboratively yeah.
- [49:46]
Matt Lewis
I almost went a whole episode without Richard III mention. Then I'm glad you made it rather than me, because I mention him in almost every single episode I do. So again, you've saved me a job there.
- [49:55]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Well, Saint Bees, man was also in a bit of a car park area as well. This is a part of the priory, which was dismantled, and it's just a sort of gravel area now. So, you know, I'm sorry, you can't get away from it. Car parks are incredibly important places to our understanding of the medieval past.
- [50:13]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, brilliant. I guess just to end on, maybe this is an unfair question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Why are villages by the sea important? What do they tell us that perhaps other villages inland don't, about our history?
- [50:26]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
I think it's at this point that on the coast, where we interface with the wider world, where this was not somewhere out of the way or insignificant, this is where we did a lot of our business, where a lot of our ideas of how we conducted ourselves, how we presented ourselves as a nation, how we interacted with the rest of the world. It's where a lot of that took place. It's where a lot of the natural resources are exposed and are brought together as well, whether it's tin deposits, whether it's fisheries, quarries, whatever. And obviously it's the point at which we connect with those trading superhighways as well. When the roads were absolutely terrible, which they were until relatively recent times, and you could not move bulk goods around long before the arrival of the railways enabled you to do that. It was trading down the coast that was important, and culturally as well. Therefore, there are unexpected links with up and down the east coast, for example, even right down to the south coast, the migration of Scots with the herring fisheries and so forth, right down East Anglia, down around the south coast of Britain. And the influences of people from different parts of the country, bringing their way of doing things down, sometimes their language, their terminology, even the architecture. This is why it's important. I'm not saying inland places aren't important for various reasons, but this is why I found coastal, and I find coastal places to be especially fascinating. It's those influences. A lot of stuff comes together on the coast and the layers of history are quite extraordinary because these are typically not places that are abandoned, they're bases that go on a journey, a sort of an arc of a story. They may be more important at some times than in others. Their time of blooming flourishing, becoming famous. Maybe in medieval times. It may be later, it may be slightly earlier, but they're all places that people have gone back to again and again and again to reinvent, rework and appreciate the importance of and for many places. Now for us it's simply holidays, but I hope it's holidays where we enjoy a bit of discovery and a bit of understanding about our past.
- [53:02]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, absolutely. I think one of my favorite things about these series is that they literally give you the tools to go to places like this, that you might go on holiday, but you can look up, look down, look at this and try to understand what it is that surrounds you in those places, just how rich the history can be that you could very easily walk past. And I think the show is great at giving viewers the equipment to bring an extra level of enjoyment to wherever they might be going on holiday. So, so yeah, I'm, I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of this series. Congratulations on another wonderful series and I hope listeners will go out and check it out too.
- [53:37]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Thanks very much.
- [53:38]
Matt Lewis
Thanks very much for joining us, Ben. Thank you.
- [53:40]
Dr. Eleanor Yonega
Cheers.
- [53:40]
Matt Lewis
Now you can catch Ben's previous visit to Gone Medieval in our vaults and Eleanor's chat with Dr. Joe Buckbury that included Saint Be's man just earlier this week. There are new installments of God Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back and join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. Don't forget to also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've gone medieval. You can sign up to History Hit to access hundreds of hours of original documentary entries with a new release every week and all of History hits podcasts ad free. Sign up@historyhit.com subscribe. What are you waiting for? Anyway, I better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just Gone medieval with History Hit.
- [54:45]
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- [55:15]
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