Old Sarum: Stronghold of Norman England

Summary

Gone Medieval: Old Sarum – Stronghold of Norman England

Episode Release Date: October 25, 2024

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Introduction to Old Sarum

In this episode of Gone Medieval, host Matt Lewis welcomes Dr. Eleanor Yonega, an esteemed archaeologist and associate professor at Swansea University, to delve into the rich history of Old Sarum—a pivotal yet often underappreciated site in Norman England. Dr. Yonega, co-editor of Tale of Two Cities, Settlement and Suburb, brings a decade of research to the discussion, offering fresh perspectives on this monumental hill fort and its transformation through the ages.

Historical Significance of Old Sarum

Dr. Yonega begins by outlining the origins of Old Sarum, emphasizing its roots as an Iron Age hill fort. She explains, “The earliest substantial evidence is that it's an Iron Age hill fort...three Roman roads converge on the east gate” (05:02). This strategic location made it a central node in the Roman network of towns and roads in southern England. Transitioning into the early medieval period, Old Sarum gains prominence during the late Anglo-Saxon era, particularly in the 10th and 11th centuries under kings like Aethelred and Edgar.

Old Sarum in the Anglo-Saxon and Viking Periods

When discussing Old Sarum’s role during the Anglo-Saxon and Viking periods, Dr. Yonega notes its relative obscurity compared to Winchester. “It doesn't compare. It's a really tricky one because what evidence we have for Old Sarum in the early medieval period is limited” (05:19). Despite sparse records, the presence of a mint in the early 11th century suggests emerging prominence. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle references Viking raids in Old Sarum, indicating its strategic importance even before the Norman conquest.

Norman Conquest and the Transformation of Old Sarum

The conversation shifts to the pivotal role Old Sarum played during the Norman conquest. Dr. Yonega highlights how William the Conqueror recognized Old Sarum’s potential as a symbol of his new reign. “The castle was referred to...probably in the early 1060s,” she explains (13:30). William’s construction of the Motte (MO) and the castle’s symmetrical layout were deliberate acts of propaganda, reinforcing Norman authority and mirroring the grandeur of Roman infrastructure.

A key moment discussed is the Oath of Sarum, where William solidified his rule. Dr. Yonega reflects, “That's when William holds some of his less than enthusiastic nobles to account...a stage for performing power” (26:31). This ceremony at Old Sarum was more than a mere event; it was a strategic move to establish Norman dominance and legitimize William’s kingship.

Archaeological Insights and Discoveries

Dr. Yonega shares insights from recent archaeological surveys conducted by Dr. Chris Strutt at Southampton University. These surveys revealed a bustling inner castle beneath the Motte, filled with Roman and possibly late Anglo-Saxon artifacts. “They found quite a lot of Roman pottery...and a walled structure, likely a late Anglo-Saxon church tower” (40:40). These findings suggest that Old Sarum was a melting pot of cultures and influences, meticulously altered by the Normans to serve their imperial ambitions.

Decline of Old Sarum’s Prominence

Despite its significant role post-conquest, Old Sarum’s prominence was short-lived. Dr. Yonega attributes this decline to the fracturing of Norman authority during the Anarchy—a civil war in England from 1135 to 1153. “By 1139...the link between the king and Old Sarum is broken...the project of Old Sarum is also over” (36:23). Additionally, the awkward placement of the cathedral within the castle complex hindered its growth as a religious and administrative center.

Preservation and Modern-Day Significance

In discussing the future of Old Sarum, Dr. Yonega emphasizes the challenges posed by reduced funding for heritage sites. “We have to be creative and think a little bit outside of the box...Old Sarum failed” (37:45). Despite these challenges, she advocates for greater public engagement and innovative storytelling to preserve Old Sarum’s legacy. Highlighting the efforts of English Heritage, she encourages listeners to visit and explore the extensive exhibits at Salisbury Museum, which showcase artifacts from Old Sarum.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Matt Lewis reflecting on the integral role Old Sarum played in Norman England. Dr. Yonega emphasizes that Old Sarum serves as an archaeological document, offering invaluable insights into the Norman psyche and their methods of consolidating power. “If we want to look for an archaeological document that gives us a window into the Norman psyche...Old Sarum is up there as a document, as you say, with the Domesday Book” (29:20).

Notable Quotes

• “The earliest substantial evidence is that it's an Iron Age hill fort...three Roman roads converge on the east gate.” – Dr. Eleanor Yonega (05:02)

• “The castle was referred to...probably in the early 1060s.” – Dr. Eleanor Yonega (13:30)

• “That's when William holds some of his less than enthusiastic nobles to account...a stage for performing power.” – Dr. Eleanor Yonega (26:31)

• “If we want to look for an archaeological document that gives us a window into the Norman psyche...Old Sarum is up there as a document, as you say, with the Domesday Book.” – Dr. Eleanor Yonega (29:20)

Final Thoughts

Gone Medieval’s episode on Old Sarum offers a comprehensive exploration of this Norman stronghold’s rise and fall. Through Dr. Yonega’s expert analysis, listeners gain a deeper understanding of Old Sarum’s strategic importance, architectural innovations, and its ultimate decline in the face of shifting political landscapes. This detailed narrative not only highlights Old Sarum’s historical significance but also underscores the importance of preserving such sites for future generations.

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Transcript

[Matt Lewis]

Hello, I'm Matt Lewis.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

And I'm Dr. Eleanor Yonega and we're.

[Matt Lewis]

Just popping up here to tell you some insider info.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

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[Matt Lewis]

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[Alex Langlands]

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[Matt Lewis]

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[Matt Lewis]

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[Matt Lewis]

Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval from History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the Crusades, we cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots and murders to find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here. Find out who we really were with Gone Medieval. Welcome to this episode of Gone Medieval. I'm Matt Lewis. What do you know about Old Sarum? Maybe something, maybe nothing. Maybe you've been There. Well, today's guest has some fascinating insights on a critical site in Norman England that slipped from prominence. Alex Langlands is an archaeologist associate professor at Swansea University in history and heritage. And you may recognize him from the BBC series of shows that include the Victorian Farm and the Edwardian Farm, which my wife absolutely loves. So Alex's new book, Tale of Two Cities, Settlement and Suburb, co edited with Hadrian Cook, is a fresh look at the importance of Old Serum. So welcome to Gone Medieval, Alex.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Thanks ever so much for having me, Matt.

[Matt Lewis]

It's great to have you here. As I say, my wife is a massive fan of those Edwardian Farm, Victorian farm programs. And I've been badgering you for maybe over a year now to come and do this episode. So I'm glad the book has landed and you're able to come and talk to us.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Thanks for having me on. It's a good time to be talking about really, what has been, for me, about 10 years of work on and off, looking at that monument and trying to rethink it, really.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah. And I've been badgering you because Old Serum is such an important, impressive site that often doesn't get as much air time as it probably deserves. So as an introduction for us, can you just tell us a little bit about what Old Sarum is? What's the earliest evidence we have for it being used?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

The sort of earliest substantial evidence is that it's an Iron Age hill fort and there's been some spot finds around the monument that suggest Iron Age activity there. And of course, we all know Wessex. It's peppered with Iron Age hill thoughts, and almost certainly there was one there there. It's been heavily reconfigured by the Normans, which we'll come on to. But one of the kind of biggest indicators that it was quite a prominent place in the first century is the fact that no less than three Roman roads converge on the east gate. So the Romans have really identified this place as somewhere where they're going to punch in three roads and just make sure that it's a central node in their network of towns and roads in the south of England. There's an Iron Age presence there.

[Matt Lewis]

How much then do we know about Old Sarum during the Anglo Saxon and the Viking period? So we're in Wessex, so we're around where Alfred the Great is famously going to be drawing battle lines with the Vikings. How important is Old Sarum, say, in comparison to Winchester?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

It doesn't compare. It's a really tricky one because what evidence we have for Old Sarum in the early medieval period. We've got a couple of references in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle. The early sort of 6th century. One is proto historic, borderline fictional and perhaps mythological. There may be a grain of truth in a battle being fought there in the 6th century. Fast forward and we come into the early 11th century. So we're in the second Viking Age and we learn of the Vikings ransacking Wilton, which was the county town or the shire town it gave its name to. Wiltshire. That's quite a busy place, we know that, Wilton. And then the Vikings, having sacked Wilton, they make their way to Old Sarum, the Anglo Saxon Chronicle tells us, and then it says, rather frustratingly, they go to the sea. We don't know whether they get to Old Sarum and think, ye gods, that's a little bit too much to take on, or they get to Old Serum and there's nothing there and they just go somewhere else. I suspect it's the former because there is a mint there in the early 11th century and I think it is emerging as a prominent location in the late Anglo Saxon period. The late Anglo Saxons, a bit like the Normans, have this sort of imperial ambitions. They want to be the kind of inheritors of Rome and they're picking more monumental sites in the landscape to use for their town building and urban projects. A central question for us was always the extent to which Old Sarum was a kind of brand spanking new greenfield site for the Normans to play out their ambitions there, or whether Old Sarum was already experiencing a sort of meteoric rise in the earlier 11th century under Aethelred and perhaps even earlier in the 10th century under King Edgar. The Edgar, the peaceable, very powerful Anglo Saxon king.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah. So there's a sense that there is a long history at Old Sarum, but that as we get towards the 10th and 11th centuries, it's beginning to rise in prominence maybe quite quickly.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah. Because if we look across Wessex, your really early Anglo Saxon settlements, they're all right down by the rivers, river crossings on the alluvial plain. Think Wilton, for example. Think places like Wimborne Minster would be another classic example. And to a certain extent, Winchester is right down on the River Itchy. It's the absolute perfect place. That's where the Anglo Saxons want to be. But by the time you get to the 10th into the 11th century, as I say, there's this sort of grandeur, this need for kind of visibility and monumentalism in the landscape. And we see places like South Cadbury for example, is refortified in the 11th century, probably under King Aethelred. I think the same thing is going on at Old Sarum. Wilton just doesn't work. It's boxed in by the rivers, it's small, it's not easy to defend. They want a bigger site to play out those kind of ambitions of power. So I think Old Sarum, something is happening at Old Sarum in the late Anglo Saxon period. And then if we look at Domesday Book, we've got quite an interesting reference there. Doomsday Book doesn't tell us it's a borough, so an urban centre, but it does tell us that the third penny is being paid as a tax at Sbury, so at Salisbury, basically at Sarum. And the third penny is an indicator elsewhere across Wessex and England that there are some kind of urban functions there. Like I say, it's got a mint as well, so there's something going on there. But as yet, to be fair, archaeologically we haven't really managed to pin it down.

[Matt Lewis]

It sounds like potentially to some extent in the late Anglo Saxon period, those kings, as they take control of the whole of England, are perhaps trying to co opt that Roman focus on Old Saru. If the Romans have pointed lots of roads there, it must be an important site. And if we want to associate ourselves with Rome, perhaps we can associate ourselves with a site that Rome thought was important.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

I think you absolutely bang on. I think if you look at kings like King Athelstan for example, he's a very European minded king. What we see increasingly in the late Anglo Saxon period is these kind of delusions of grandeur, but this sort of sense of Romanitas and bringing about a very Christian form of Romanitas. Other work I've done in Wessex, I wrote a book called the Ancient Ways of Wessex Travel and Communication in an Early Medieval landscape back in 2019. And one of the things I identified is that it looks like some of the Roman roads are being reinstated in the 10th century. And particularly that road that goes from Andover down to Old Sarum, which is called the Portway, that sits right next to Greatly, which is where one of Athelstan's most famous codes, law codes, is written. And I think something is going on there. Exactly what you're saying. As the West Saxon kings are realizing that actually they're bigger players, they're Brit Walders, if you like, they're the lords of all of Britain. They've got this idea that they are the new emperors, if you like, and it's about having that kind of Extra tier in the landscape. So I think you're absolutely spot on. They would see that there were Roman roads converging on this place. I suspect that they reuse some of the Roman material there for some of their structures, because there is some suggestion of archaeological evidence on the site. But, yeah, this is all about a kind of new Rome.

[Matt Lewis]

One of my favorite things about Athelstan is the one time that he calls himself emperor of the entire world of Britain. So he clearly does have those pretensions to be an imperial figure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Lewis]

And imperial figures need big, impressive cities and structures. For me, I associate Old Sarum most with the Norman king. So on the eve of the Norman conquest, there is a sense then that Old Sarum is becoming important. Is this maybe why it will attract William the Conqueror when he becomes king? Because he does seem to focus a lot of attention on Old Sarum.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yes. So there's something already happening there, even if it's elusive to us archaeologically and the historical sources are little bit vague. But I think you're absolutely right. Now, the big question for me is, do the Normans already have that place in mind quite early on, perhaps even pre conquest, when they're warming up? Or do these ideas around using old serum emerge in the aftermath of the Battle of Hastings? And there are some critical questions there about the extent to which elements of the conquest are being planned beyond just getting over there and getting Harold. The only reason I would suggest that there may be a sense that they are thinking long term and they are thinking about old term in advance is because Edward of Salisbury goes on to become the Sheriff of Wiltshire and his base is Old Saran. And Edward of Salisbury is of mixed Anglo Saxon and Norman heritage of all of the English lords that retain their land, and it's about 5%. It's a pretty much a wipeout of the Anglo Saxon aristocracy. But of those that do retain their lands, Edward is chief amongst them. So I do wonder in his career whether what we're seeing there is an agent of the Norman project and perhaps some of these plans being laid in advance. But it's speculation. But I think when we come to think about the broader project of conquest, we might want to be thinking about what was planned after. They must have had some kind of planned strategy after 1066. It's not a case of we just play the next game, focus on the next game and then see what happens. I think they probably would have been thinking, if we do manage to knock the kingpin out, what do we do? London, Winchester. But Then how do we suppress the southwest?

[Matt Lewis]

They're probably not walking off the field at Hastings, scratching their heads and going, what do we do now? They must have had something in mind.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Lewis]

And so when William the Conqueror, then he becomes King of England, he arrives at Old Sarum and looks at it. He does a lot there. One of the things that we've spoken about before about Old Sarum is the MoT and the position of the MoT within the arrangement of the castle. Do we know whether William builds that mott or is it already there?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

He builds it. I think we can assume that. And I think you alluded to it very early on in the sort of intro. You said it's maybe not got the coverage old serum that it probably deserves. And yesterday I was going through all of the copious books that have been written on castles and in England, and it's remarkable how lots of people go, oh, and then there's this place called Old Zeram, and it's exceptional. It's the biggest. It's got the biggest ring work. The MOP is the only one that's century place. And you think actually something going on here, isn't there? It's difficult to get a handle on what the sequence may have been, but almost certainly the MO is a Norman innovation, or in terms of that site anyway. And it's big. It's a very, very big mo. So we've got castle being built there and the castle was referred to. The earliest reference to it is I think, early 1080s, but I think we're looking at late 1060s. And this all hangs on an interpretation of a charter that is issued by William at his castle in Salisbury and what date that charter was issued at. So it gets a bit complicated, but it's an early Norman work. But the other thing they do in 1071 of the Norman project is to break the Anglo Saxon church. So what the Normans do is they relocate some of the big Anglo Saxon churches to Roman cities. For example, what we see in Sussex is the bishopric there of Sussex, which was based at Selsey, is moved into the Roman walls. At Chichester, we see Lichfield, famous powerful Mercian bishopric, which has moved to Chester, and the diocese of Ramsbury, tiny little place in north Wiltshire and Sherborne. People may know a very famous Anglo Saxon church. Now at Sherborne, those are combined into a single diocese based at this new place, Old Sarum. So again, what we're seeing is this idea of Civitatus, the Roman cities, civilization. Again, this imperial stamp is being placed on the English landscape. And the Normans are the kind of architects of that. So castle and cathedral are brought there. But I think one of the things that's been really overlooked is the sheer scale of that castle monument. You've got that central mop, but that outer bailey is enormous. And what the archeological excavations exposed in the early part of the 20th century and some subsequent excavations in the 1950s, is that the symmetry of the monument, whatever road you come into the Salisbury Basin on it is as William Cobbett described it, as three concentrically stacked cheeses. So Cobbett was writing in the early 19th century and that's what was at the forefront of his audience's mind.

[Matt Lewis]

To be fair, cheese is always at the forefront of my mind too.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, exactly. So it's beautifully symmetrical and the excavations are telling us that's purposeful because in one part of the monument they're cutting back the Iron Age defenses to get the right level. And in another part of the monument, they're lifting it up to the tune of about 22ft. This is an enormous earth moving operation of an unprecedented scale. Take all of that together and we've definitely got a project.

[Matt Lewis]

And does the position of the central mock, does that mean anything? Is there a sense that what William might be doing is building out from the center with a sense that old Serum is going to get bigger and become more and more important? Or am I reading too much into that?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

At the risk of over intellectualizing things, I wonder to a certain extent whether this is a reflection of kind of secular thinking about power at the time and the idea of divine providence, the idea that at the center lies God's Providence that centralized the king and that this is a very symbolic statement. If you look anywhere else where the Normans Plonker Castle, and they do it for lots of different reasons anywhere else, the sort of inner castle, if you like, is always on the periphery of a monument. So if you look at somewhere I grew up near Pevensey, the castles dug into the perimeter wall of the Roman fort there at Winchester, the west end of the city, that's where the castle is, right up against the west gate. That's the form book. And it seems to me that the castle, if I was building it with hindsight, I'd tap William on the shoulder and say, look, it's a nice idea to stick it in the middle, but actually why don't you put it over the east gate? Then everyone can see it on the roads and then you've got lots of room for a central Cathedral in the middle. I could say that with hindsight, just the position of that mock is in itself, I think, a reflection of the Norman vision of their own position in the world. And by digging the mop as well, and this is something that a lot of scholars have been looking at with the idea of dong jongs, or towers. By digging the mop and putting a tower on top of it, you are actually creating a new tier in the landscape. So what you're doing is visually, to all of those people in that river valley and it's the confluence of five rivers there, what you're doing is you're saying this is the new tier, there's a new tier of authority here. And I think the symmetry is about bringing order, which is about bringing civilization. And when we think about the idea of the City of God and order being brought to the kind of physical structures, there's a lot of writing around this. I think that's what William's trying to do, is a propaganda thing going on there as well, with the local people.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, it sounds a bit like he'd found this site that was a kind of an up and coming site, but perhaps enough of a blank canvas still that it could be a model for a new Norman way of building a city or imposing themselves on the landscape.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, I think this is enough of a blank canvas for them to say, we need a new center of power here. Now, its geostrategic importance should be stated because it is at the heart of Wessex. Wessex is the wealthiest part of Anglo Saxon England. Arguably, Wessex really is very well coordinated in its ability to mint coin, its market economies. And of course, Wessex has the coastline which it shares with Normandy. So if William really wanted to lock in a power base in southern England, Winchester might be a bit tricky because it's got a lot of people living there and you can't really upset them too much. Plan a few houses to build your new castle, but you don't want to upset them too much. So Aunt Sarum gives an opportunity to create a new centre of ducal authority. Now, if you look at what William had done in Normandy, Ball in Falaise, that's his kind of heartland, if you like. But he has a really important role in developing Caen as a centre of ducal authority in Normandy. And if you look at the way Caen is laid out, there are very close parallels to what was envisaged at Old Sarum. So I think that is the model and it was so effective in Normandy that I think they're thinking we can do the same in Wesson's.

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[Matt Lewis]

It'S always important to remember that William wasn't a king. He's suddenly having to learn how to be a king. So I guess he can take what's worked for him in Normandy and he can replicate that now, hoping that it will work on a kingly scale rather than just a ducal scale?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, I think so. I think there's a vision for how it's going to grow and expand. And there again are some critical questions, because the geophysical survey of the monument, which was undertaken by a friend and colleague, Dr. Chris Strutt, at Southampton University, and they've done an amazing number of surveys over the years, and the work they're doing there is really causing us to radically rethink not just Old Sarum, but the wider landscape as well. It's an amazing body of work. And what they found with the geophysical survey is that inside the monument, it's really busy. Now. The problem we have with geophysics is we don't date stuff, you know, at the end of the day and getting the pig and shovel out. And that's the only way you can really address some of these questions. But a critical question still remains around Old Serum is the extent to which the city and the town, or the urban functions, the tradespeople, the market, was that inside the hilltop or was it actually planned outside the hilltop? And that's a question we haven't really quite answered fully. And that's really important to understanding what happens after the 1070s. My own view is I probably would look to places like Falaise and Caen, where actually what you've got inside the outer baileys, there are large open spaces for the performances of power. And if anything, the urban sort of market functions, the traders and so on, they're outside. There's evidence at Old Serum that there is a sort of planned town at the East Gate, with its own borough church, its own town church. And the book brings together all the archaeological evidence from the mid 19th century all the way through to the 1960s, where there were some excavations that have been unpublished. So I've tried to bring all that together. So there's something going on outside. And my Preference is to see what's going on inside as a sort of big ceremonial space. And I think the design there is in part informed by the way in which the Normans are using the monument.

[Matt Lewis]

And William will use Old Sarum for those big display, set piece moments. So we have the Oath of Sarum that he will take there, and Doomsday is presented to him at Old Sarum. Clearly he's wanting to associate his rule, his power and his authority very specifically with Old Sarum. He could have done those things in London, in Westminster, but he chooses to do them at Old Sarum.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Exactly. And again, that's something we've not collectively come together as historians and archaeologists to ring that bell and to say, hey, wake up. This is the natural home of Doomsday. Because to us, we live in a world where documents are all important. But to the elites and aristocrats and the greater public of the Anglo Norman world, deed, oath, gesture and witnessing and being there, they are in many ways more important than a document. That whole performance is as critical, I think, as the document was in its time. The documents gone on to be incredibly important from a historical perspective. But at the point at which you were there experiencing that ceremony, that's the most important thing that really locks in the conquest. Okay, it's 20 years later than 1066, but it really does bring home the achievement of King William. And you need a stage to do that on. As I say in the book, when we think about what Old Sarum is, is it a castle, is it a city? Is it a city in a castle? Is it a castle in a city? Henry of Vranch was writing this back in the early 13th century. He didn't know people didn't know what's really going on here. And I think in many ways it's no either. I think if anything, it's a stage of performing power. And I think when we look at the Oath of Sarum, that may very well have been informed by what was going on immediately after the harrying of the North. Because once William's gone north and harried the north and built castles all over the north, he comes back to Old Sarah and it's there that he holds some of his less than enthusiastic nobles to account. And it may have been actually around that point, 1070, 71, where some of the major earthworking was going on. And he may have looked at that and thought, God, this place really worked for performing Norman royal power. Yeah, I think that probably informed 1086 and the oath of Sarum and the links with Doomsday just, to me mean that we need to look at that site and consider how, for a brief period, it was constitutionally probably one of the most important places in England.

[Matt Lewis]

And I guess that means that Old Sarum ought to be considered alongside the Bayer Tapestry and Doomsday as a source for understanding Norman England.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, exactly. I cut my teeth as an archaeologist and I'm always at pains to communicate to not just my students, but the wider public that archeology can be read like a document. Whether you're reading a parish church or a medieval cesspit. Read it like a document and think about what it tells you. And I think if we want to look for an archaeological document that gives us a window into the Norman psyche, a window into the Norman vision of its own conquest, its practices, then Old Sarum is up there as a document, as you say, with the biotapestry, with Domesday Book, with some of the chronicles. If you read the physical character of that monument and how it was altered, reconfigured and designed in those critical years from 1067 through to 1086, that is a project that provides us with a really quite unique window into William's project.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah. And I guess for something then, that sits so close to the heart of how Norman kingship views itself and this performative element of royalty. Do we have any sense of why it slips from importance? Why does it decline as a site?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

I think it's a couple of reasons, really. In the sort of power politics of the day, it's very close to the Norman kings. The first bishop, he's a Lotharingian, the first bishop there, but he is surpassed in 1070s. Bishop Osmond takes over and he was King William's chancellor, right hand man. So Osmund is given the role of taking over the cathedral at Old Sarum Castle. Cathedral project going on there. The link between the king and the church there is really tight. Osmund is then followed up with Bishop Roger, who is from Caen. He's Norman and he's a very close ally of Henry I. So again, you've got these kind of almost like buddies. And that's the point at which things start to fracture, because by the time we get to the anarchy, Henry I dies. Bishop Roger at this point is considered the chroniclers, right. That he is considered second only to the king, especially when the king is over in Normandy trying to sort out rebellions over in Normandy. Bishop Roger of Salisbury is the most powerful man in the country. Now, he probably does embezzle some funds I don't think he was the most popular person, but very powerful. And he swears an early oath of allegiance to Stephen. And I think probably over the course of the next five years, he realizes that Stephen is not a backer. It seems to me Stephen's a bit of a wally, really, more than anything. And there's unrest in 1139, and Stephen, perhaps encouraged by some of his leading men, makes a move on Bishop Roger and his lands and Bishop Roger's sons, Bishop Nigel of Ely and Bishop Alexander of Lincoln, and he arrests them. And there's a famous episode called the arrest of the bishops. And the great constitutional historian William Stubbs wrote, that is the most significant constitutional act since the Norman Conquest. And I think it's interesting because 1139, and I've written about this again, another open access publication, people can go and look it up. The downfall of Roger and the way in which he was rubbed out, really, it was quite brutal. And the Church kicked up a bit of a fuss. You can't treat our bishops like this. But then Stephen's men turned around and said, your bishop's not behaving like a bishop, he's behaving like a king, really a very secular lord. So Roger gets rubbed out in quite a brutal fashion. And I think that's really the beginning of the end for Norman England. That's the story. And that's 1139. So it's quite a short window when old Saruman's there and is at the center. And that's the break we see between the bishops of Salisbury and the king of England. But I think the other fault line is that the cathedral, whichever way you look at it, is an afterthought. It's tucked in to the northwest corner. It's not got room to grow. It's just not where you build cathedrals. And I think that is an afterthought. I think that mock goes up and then they're like, right now we need a cathedral. Oh, no, we've put the MO over the east gate, so let everyone know who's in charge. And then go through the castle. What, past the castle and then the cathedral, if it was sat right in the middle of the hill, much like the cathedral of Durham, for example, I think it might have even have stayed there. But I think those quick decisions that were being made and 1067, Kuta. 1070, 1075. Ultimately, I think that's where the physical topographical fracture lines are.

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[Matt Lewis]

Old Sarum is tied so closely and specifically to Norman kingship that as soon as Norman kingship is broken by kind of Stephen, and then obviously Henry II will move into the Angevin period, that link between the king and Old Sarum is broken too. It's so caught in the Norman project that once the Norman project is over, the project of Old Sarum is also over.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, exactly. It brings us back to this point that actually if you want a document, an archaeological document to read for what it tells us about the Norman Conquest, or the long Norman Conquest as it's sometimes called, Old Sarum is exactly that place. And I think what's interesting as well, if you were to talk to anyone in the street, the Norman Conquest was a success. And that's got a lot to do with the fact that in the past people liked conquest narratives, so it got recorded. It was the last time that England was successfully defeated by a foreign invading force. I'm not so sure about that. I think there are some other examples which were just spun in slightly different ways. But actually, if we look at the fact that that Hill fort is now a greenfield site. There's barely a piece of exposed worked masonry on it. To the untrained eye, it's kind of Green Hill and there's this wonderful city down in the valley. So Old Sarum failed. So whilst the narrative sources, the chronicles, the doomsday book, biochapestry, all tell us about this wonderful success, actually in the long term perspectives of conquest and colonialism, some of those Norman ideas failed. And Old Sarum I think is an indication of how in the long term those types of conquests fail and that ultimately it's, I wouldn't say the market that wins out, but it's the bottom up forces in that landscape that without.

[Matt Lewis]

How then do we stop places like Old Sarum being forgotten? It has such a story to tell and we can try and draw attention to it and obviously there's lots of study that goes on. There's previously been archeology, but how do we make sure that we keep Old Sarum and that we remember what it was?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Well, that's a good question because let's face it, the British government hasn't been kind to arts, humanities, culture, heritage. We've seen cuts since 2010amounting to around about a third of budgets. There's a cost living crisis. Costs have gone up, funding's gone down. It's probably a more challenging environment now than it's ever been to make the most of our heritage. But we have to be creative and we have to think a little bit outside of the box. English heritage, I think, do a marvelous job actually of stewarding the inner castle. I would say to anyone, it's a fantastic visit. The guidebook is excellent and it actually, a lot of people get off the train and go to Stonehenge. I don't know why it looks like a golf course, the way it's managed. If you want a really good weekend break, you've got the cathedral, you've got a fantastic museum as well in Salisbury Museum. The new exhibitions are opening soon. All of the finds from the medieval city of Salisbury and from Old Sarum are on display there. The Wessex Gallery has got a sort of deep time story. Get on the bus, pop out to Old Sarum as well. What a weekend. We've got to think about new ways of telling the story. And that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to say this is a really important Norman place. But if anyone is interested in the process of English towns, medieval towns, is there a better place to go? I ask because the great thing about Old Sarum is. It's like a window, an inverted mirror. I should say to Salisbury, everything that's wonderful about Salisbury was what was bad about Old Sarum and what in Salisbury is the vision in the early 13th century of what a medieval city should look like versus a vision of what a slightly overbearing king with imperial ambitions thinks a medieval city should be.

[Matt Lewis]

That was a wonderful pitch for the Salisbury and Old Sarum Tourist Board. Great reasons to go and visit.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, I lived there for about 10, 12 years, and it is a lovely place to go and visit. It's a good weekend break.

[Matt Lewis]

I had a great aunt, she lived for a long time in Wilton, so we used to go to Wilton House where they've got a fantastic, like, adventure playground thing that I played in for hours as a child. And then she lived on the Devizes Road and overlooked Old Sarum. So from her living room window, you could see Old Sarum. And this was when I was still young enough. That meant absolutely nothing to me. The thought of going and staying there now would blow my mind. But I missed all of that in being far too young to understand it all. But definitely, definitely Salisbury is a wonderful place to go. If listeners go to Old Sarum, what should they look out for? Have you got a favorite part? Something that you would tell them to go and check out?

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Obviously, go into the inner castle. And what they did in the early 20th century is they tried to reinstate the walls and the tower and the courtyarded building. But think about what is underneath that mop, because archaeologically, that is so tantalizing to think that immediately below the upcast of that mop was the last day of Anglo Saxon England. And that, to me, if I could, I don't think English Heritage would let me, but if I could grade off that mop and excavate what the mop buried, that buried surface. And what you can do is you can stand on the outside of the castle and you can trace the line of the original ground surface and where it goes into the mob. And under there is the last day of Anglo Saxon England. And they did in the early 20th century when they were excavating Old Serral Castle. And to be honest, it wasn't really an excavation. It was more of a kind of taking all the demolition debris out and trying to just identify where the main structures were. But they did excavate a well, and it turned out to be a false well. They'd got only so far in digging this well, and then they decided to call it off. Whoever originally dug the well and the excavators did that before I was cool it off at the end of the season in October, just before they're packing up, they thought, oh, let's go back into that well. Let's cut through the staining of the well, which is the wall of the well and let's excavate that buried surface. And what they found was really tantalizing. So they found quite a lot of Roman pottery or Romano British pottery. You should probably say they found midden. They found what they called filth and midden and blackish soil. It's kind of stuff that us archaeologists absolutely love. But they found a walled structure. So they were digging galleries. Okay. This is like health and safety nightmare without timber supports. Okay. They found the original level of the ground surface that the mott is built on top of and they dug five foot high galleries in two directions. Then they found some Romano British pottery. They found what they called Norman pottery, which I actually think is probably late Anglo Saxon pottery there. But they also found this walled structure. And what's really interesting about the drawings of that walled structure and the descriptions in Lt. Col. Hawley's diary, he was writing a diary at the time, is that they're reusing cut ashlar blocks in it. So I think there was a Roman structure there and I think that structure is probably a late Anglo Saxon church tower or something like that which has been buried. Basically the Normans have just trashed it and buried it. So yeah, if you go to that monument, just think about the impact, the destruction of that once important aristocratic site and the way it was turned into this huge, vast monumental circle really I.

[Matt Lewis]

Guess a microcosm of what's happening in the wider country. It's the crushing of one system and the building of a new one over the top of it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yonega]

Yeah, they're Normans are smart, they're not changing things too much. Wherever there's an existing high status place, they're doing something to augment it. And they might be adding a mop, they might be adding a tower. If you look at some of the big cities, place like Lincoln for example, Exeter, they're building castles, but they're actually building castles in parts of cities which were already quite high status. Colchester would be the classic example. Monster keep. They build an absolutely huge keep. They build it on the site of the temple of Claudius, this monumental temple which I think they would have been aware of that probably also the site of a high status Anglo Saxon site. And that's where they build their main castles. Anglo Saxon England is one of the wealthiest parts of northern Europe. The centralized power that the state has compares very favorably to other parts of Europe where actually power was dissipated between local lords. If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it. What they do is they come in and they put their stamp on places that are already quite important. And in that way, what we actually see in the archeological record is very high levels of continuity. And a lot of the time these castles don't disrupt things. If anything, they almost accelerate the way in which towns and urban centers grow. So the archeological evidence tells a slightly different story to the drama of the documents.

[Matt Lewis]

Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Alex. It's been absolutely fascinating to think a bit more closely and carefully about old Serum to try to understand it a bit better and hopefully to give listeners a reason to go and visit it too. So thank you very much. Alex is the co editor of Tales of Two Cities, Settlement and Suburb which is packed with information and interpretation all about this site. If you've enjoyed this episode of Gone Medieval, you might also like the episode the Story of the Castle with John Goodall and a couple that we have on one of Old Sarum's most famous residents residence Eleanor of Aquitaine too. There are new installments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back next time to join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. Don't forget to also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've Gone medieval. It really does help us and you'll be doing us a huge favour. You can also listen to us and all of History Hits podcasts ad free and watch hundreds of TV documentaries when you [e-mail] subscribe as a special gift. You can also get 50% off your first three months when you use the Code Medieval at checkout. Anyway, I better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just Gone Medieval with History.

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