Anxiously Attached to Jordan Jensen | Good For You Podcast with Whitney Cummings | EP 305

Summary

Good For You Podcast with Whitney Cummings

Episode 305: Anxiously Attached to Jordan Jensen
Release Date: September 6, 2025
Guests:

• Jordan Jensen (comedian)
• Pat Regan (comedian, podcast regular/producer)

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Main Theme of the Episode

Whitney Cummings welcomes comedian Jordan Jensen back to the podcast for her first proper guest episode since January. The episode is a humorous and revealing deep-dive into friendship among comedians, boundaries, relationships, attachment styles, gossip as a survival tool, and the psychological games comedians play with themselves and others.

Throughout, both comics (and Pat Regan) dissect their relationship patterns, professional anxieties, childhood dynamics, and their sometimes-dysfunctional approach to connections, validation, and self-care. The conversation is fast, raw, and self-aware, never staying small talk for long.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The State of Comedy Podcasts & Friendships

[00:30 - 05:20]

• Whitney laments how podcasts have blurred the line between friendship and "content," making intimate conversations something to monetize.
  • Quote: "I'm so done with podcasts ruining all my friendships... We can only hang out for public consumption and monetizing our friendship." (Whitney, 02:00)
• Both describe pressure to 'save it for the pod,' sometimes at the expense of genuine connection.
  • Quote: "Me and Ian, he'll be like, save it for the pot. And I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, I'm pregnant!" (Jordan, 02:22)

2. Comedy Spaces and Gendered Treatment

[03:23 - 06:06]

• Jordan describes her experience being the only woman on "bro" podcasts, where harsh ribbing is meant as a backhanded sign of inclusion, but often opens her up to more online attacks.
  • Quote: "If you attack me on a pod, the men online attack me." (Jordan, 03:40)
• Whitney and Jordan analyze how teasing among comics is a way of putting women "in the sister zone" and avoiding sexual tension.

3. Comedians' Reluctance for Small Talk and Preference for Depth

[06:17 - 07:54]

• Comedians' inability to do small talk is discussed. Small talk feels "mean"; deep, raw conversations are preferred.
  • Quote: "We don't do small talk. We can't do it... If they're like, so your mom was an alcoholic? I'm like, let's go." (Whitney, 06:40 & 06:54)
• This drive for intensity and openness is positioned as both a strength and a social weakness.

4. Podcasting, Oversharing, and Parasocial Relationships

[08:04 - 09:15]

• Jordan reflects on podcasting as a performance of vulnerability, sometimes resulting in fans crossing boundaries (e.g., bringing drawings of her deceased father).
  • Quote: "A fan the other day drew a picture of my dead father and gave it to me at a show and I almost threw up on him." (Jordan, 08:34)
• Whitney notes how podcasts create the illusion of deep friendship between hosts and listeners, rarely mutual in real life.

5. On Quitting Gossip and the Adaptive Value of Gossip

[09:28 - 10:26]

• Whitney is "30 days, no gossip," treating it like an addiction. Jordan argues gossip is an evolved survival tool, particularly for women.
  • Quote: "Biologically... we have to gossip in order to survive. We've always had to do that. Like as monkeys, we had to be like that alpha male eats its babies." (Jordan, 10:16)

6. Debating Psychological and Gender Categories

[11:06 - 16:36]

• The validity of statements like "women mature faster than men" gets playfully but insightfully deconstructed.
  • Quote: "Men are the ones that tell women we're so mature so they can date us." (Whitney, 12:08)
• Whitney is skeptical of attachment style labels (anxious, avoidant, secure), arguing they're over-pathologized survival strategies.
  • Quote: "I don't believe in any of those terms. No two people have the same definition of the same word." (Whitney, 14:02)
• The limitations of language/semanitcs in expressing complex internal states spark a blend of humor and honesty.

7. Boundaries, People-Pleasing, and Friend Perceptions

[18:28 - 27:03]

• Boundaries can be hard-won, and, as Jordan jokes, are more accessible to "hot friends."
  • Quote: "My friends who have boundaries are my hottest friends. They're my most beautiful, most secure, hot friends..." (Jordan, 18:44)
• Whitney and Jordan swap strategies for canceling plans without guilt; mutual relief is now a mark of a true friendship.
  • Quote: "Basically, when you have plans and it gets canceled, that's, like, free time that you never thought you'd have." (Whitney, 27:19)

8. Psychological Patterns From Childhood:

[29:15 - 32:19]

• Both hosts examine how chasing validation from unavailable parents shapes their romantic and professional pursuits.
  • Quote: "I literally became a comedian because all he did was watch comedy... I have to get in that box. Like, that's how I'll get his attention." (Whitney, 30:53)
  • Quote: "The happiest I've been is shape shifting in a relationship for a man who will truly never want to be." (Whitney, 31:53)
• Both acknowledge this is a "dark" game but also deeply rewarding, much like addiction.

9. Codependency vs. Interdependence

[33:11 - 35:14]

• Jordan and Whitney dissect the difference between healthy relational distance vs. toxic codependency, especially in the context of being caretakers due to having alcoholic parents.
  • Quote: "I don't like a metaphor for something unhealthy, poised as something positive... Like, it's not a... It's a codependent." (Whitney, 33:13)

10. Validation, Dopamine, and the Slot Machine of Relationships

[38:37 - 49:00]

• Jordan describes how every "epoch" of her life is named for a man she's sought approval from: "It's why, on stage, this guy on stage was like, 'It seems like you don't care...' I'm like, because I only care about one person's affection." (Jordan, 39:03)
• Both admit to checking their phones mid-set or otherwise sabotaging professional moments for romantic attention.
  • Quote: "I was checking my phone during the show." (Whitney, 40:16)
• They compare these behaviors to using people as a "drug," with adrenaline hits substituting for real connection.

11. Animal Brain: Attraction, Projection, and Stalking

[46:00 - 48:50]

• The comedians dissect unhealthy attachments, parasocial obsessions, and stalkers—both as recipients and, cheekily, as perpetrators.
• The "spell breaks" in relationships are compared to animals losing interest after observing a flaw.

12. Decisiveness, Intelligence, and Status Games

[54:31 - 56:40]

• Both riff on how being negative, critical, or dogmatic seems like intelligence, when often it's just confidence. Whitney prefers people who can hold two truths at once; Jordan prefers decisive, dogmatic types.
  • Quote: "Negativity. I used to always think negativity and intelligence were same. Same." (Whitney, 54:50)
  • Quote: "I have girlfriends who are still at Coachella. It ended six months ago." (Whitney, 56:15)

13. Being a Reluctant Alpha

[56:46 - 57:12]

• Whitney gently labels Jordan a "reluctant alpha," a natural leader who wishes for someone else to take charge.
  • Quote: "The Alpha sleeps. So you're like, reluctant Alpha. You're like, I'm the leader, but, like, I don't want to have to be." (Whitney, 56:59)

14. On Special Taping and Audience Differences

[58:06 - 59:32]

• Jordan explains why she shot her special in New York (Gramercy Theater)—the audience’s dark sensibility, the authenticity, and the venue’s character. She finds LA "delayed" or stoned.
  • Quote: "I did New York because I like New York audiences the best ... I get a little bit weird on west coast audiences." (Jordan, 58:10-58:15)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Whitney on real vs. performed friendship:
  "We can only hang out for public consumption and monetizing our friendship." [02:00]
• Jordan on 'bro' podcast dynamics:
  "If you attack me on a pod, the men online attack me." [03:40]
• Whitney on gendered maturity myths:
  "Men are the ones that tell women we're so mature so they can date us." [12:08]
• Jordan on boundaries and self-esteem:
  "My friends who have boundaries are my hottest friends." [18:44]
• On validation addiction:
  "The happiest I've been is shape shifting in a relationship for a man who will truly never want to be." (Whitney) [31:53]
• Jordan, on attention and affection:
  "It seems like you don't care...because I only care about one person's affection." [39:03]
• Whitney’s animal metaphor:
  "Dogs chase cars and they don't have a plan." [48:05]
• On being a 'reluctant alpha':
  "The Alpha sleeps. So you're like, reluctant Alpha. You're like, I'm the leader, but, like, I don't want to have to be." (Whitney) [56:59]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:30 - 05:20]: Podcasting as a threat to friendships and confessional authenticity in comedy
• [06:17 - 07:54]: Comedians’ aversion to small talk; preference for deep, dark honesty
• [09:28 - 10:26]: Whitney’s project to quit gossip and arguments for gossip as adaptive
• [14:02 - 16:36]: Critique of psychology self-labels and language in self-understanding
• [18:28 - 27:03]: The journey toward boundaries, the art of plan-canceling, and friendship etiquette
• [29:15 - 32:19]: Childhood validation traumas as fuel for standup and relationships
• [38:37 - 40:16]: Obsessing over validation from men; sabotaging your own professional moments
• [46:00 - 48:50]: Animal brain, stalkers, and when "the spell breaks" in relationships
• [54:31 - 56:40]: Critiquing the status games around intelligence, decisiveness, and groupthink
• [58:06 - 59:32]: Inside Jordan's special taping and coastal audience contrasts

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Tone and Style

• The episode is filled with fast riffs, dark humor, and radical candor—self-deprecating and deeply honest, but always comic.
• Whitney plays both instigator and analyst; Jordan is insightful, sharp, and unafraid to mock herself.
• Pat Regan offers support, quick asides, and laughs, keeping the energy buoyant but focused.

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• This episode beautifully demonstrates how comics process and repackage their personal struggles for material, but also as self-reflection.
• Jordan and Whitney touch on their "addiction" to validation—how it was born in childhood and lives on through comedy, relationships, and even the microdynamics of texting.
• The episode is a masterclass in where humor meets honesty, managing to be both bitingly funny and emotionally resonant—with a relentless avoidance of bland small talk.
• If you want sharp, neurotic, unvarnished truth about what it’s like to live as a modern comedian (especially as a woman), this is the episode.

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Jordan Jensen's special "Take Me With You" is streaming now on Netflix; in two years, she’ll own it and re-release on YouTube.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Whitney Cummings]

I will be on tour all over this great country of ours this fall. I also have a special called mouthy on YouTube. I'm going to put another special on YouTube soon, Pat. I swear, I am almost ready to put jokes on YouTube. I'm going to be. Shut up. I'm going to be in Virginia soon, and then I'm going to be in Arkansas and then Baltimore and Philadelphia. All the places. Love you. See you soon. And we're now going to start the podcast with a guest. This is so weird. I have a guest on the podcast. This could go either way.

[Jordan Carlos]

What's that? Shine water.

[Whitney Cummings]

You got Shine water?

[Jordan Carlos]

Does that have juice in it?

[Whitney Cummings]

So I am so obsessed with all the new waters that are coming out. It's almost as funny to me as the streaming networks. Remember they, like, started with Hulu. Like they floated like a sound.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, Hulu.

[Whitney Cummings]

And then they got air and they're like, roku.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like it just became nothingness.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like a baby.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Google, Gaga, Network, like.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And then now they're rolling out with the waters because we are all such, like, corporate. I'm not a corporate shill. So corporations are making waters under other names just to pretend that it's not them. Oh, all the names. I love it when brands start mocking their own consumers.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Do you know what I mean?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And so this is just called Shine Water and it's got vitamin D and B in it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh. And it's just plain water, maybe.

[Pat Regan]

Wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

Unclear.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Who knows? Who knows?

[Jordan Carlos]

I'm a spindrift girl through and through.

[Whitney Cummings]

Welcome to the program, everybody. As you may know, I have not had a guest on this show since January.

[Jordan Carlos]

What does that mean? You're talking. Just you talking.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. Me and all my personalities. Wow. Are talking right down the gullet of this, my best friend. This camera. I am talking to my only friend. Wow. This camera. I have not had guests for a litany of reasons. And because you are not a fake person. And. And I know that no one's gonna think I'm coming off mean with you.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I said I was like, let's have. Let's try this again.

[Jordan Carlos]

Who was the last one?

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, here's the other. I've done 300 episodes. What's the. I'm so done with podcasts ruining all my friendships. Cuz we can only hang out for public consumption and monetizing our friendship. Like, I'll be talking like Bobby in the hallway and I'll be like, I'm going through this hard time. He's like, let's say let's do Tiger Belly.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I literally need to talk to someone. Like, without. It's not. Brought to you by Bluechew, dude.

[Jordan Carlos]

Me and Ian, he'll be like, save it for the pot. And I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, I'm pregnant. Like, we have to talk. I've got to go.

[Whitney Cummings]

Actual secret.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I cannot. So there's. I think that part of the reason, you know, comedians are going so berserk. Like, the only thing that was keeping us sane for so long was these, like, side conversations with other comics we could actually relate to. Like, in private, in the green room. And now we've just, like, you know, only do it for public consumption, and we get on podcasts, like, you idiot. Because you're an idiot, and you're like, I love you. Like, you're my best friend. Why am I bullying you? For a laugh. From who? From someone. I've read it. Who already hates me. What am I doing?

[Jordan Carlos]

It's crazy, dude. One time I sat down at a skank, Legion of skanks, and Ian had begged me to come. Louis J. Gomez begged me to come.

[Pat Regan]

Right?

[Jordan Carlos]

And I sit down, and they just start tearing into me, and I just. I flipped out on camera. I was like, yo, Louis, fuck you. You fucking begged me to be here. And I just laid in on them because I was like, this is insane.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think on some level, when a girl goes on, like, a bro bro podcast, their way of saying, like, she's with. She can handle it.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, don't come for her. Will come for her. It's like, I think their mind's a way of protecting you to go, like, look, how she can take. Doesn't need to be that way.

[Jordan Carlos]

It doesn't work, though. Also, if you attack me on a pod, the men online attack me.

[Whitney Cummings]

Interesting.

[Jordan Carlos]

If you're a man attacking me, they go, oh, attack her.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, that's kind of, I guess, maybe where I shine in a way. So when people are too nice to me, dude, I think I'm the only one that has this. I think I said shine a couple times. The algorithm told a company they made this just market. They, oh, I'm the only person.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

They make custom waters for, like, whatever you think your slogan is. And so I do think that's where I shine. When I go on a podcast, people start being nice to me. I'm like, what are you doing? Can we make jokes here? Like, let's do jokes. Like, what's happening? I don't mean mean. I just mean, like, are we scratch? Are we sparring or what are we doing?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Picking on us puts us in a better position than taking us seriously.

[Whitney Cummings]

It, like, makes you an underdog. I'm just trying to think of the. The benevolent or. Or the knee jerk reaction to it. Yeah, like, she's one of us.

[Jordan Carlos]

The knee jerk reaction to go right to picking on us.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, it is.

[Jordan Carlos]

She's one of us. It is. She's one of the.

[Whitney Cummings]

Or like, we're not flirting. She's our sister.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, okay. Okay. We're not trying to her. We actually hate her.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's it.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

But we're like, she's one of us.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

But we're putting her in the sister zone right away. The platonic sister zone.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Does that make sense?

[Jordan Carlos]

I think they. I think Ian and Lewis also know that I am about to rip into them. I think there's a little bit of that where they're like, before I'm gonna beat you to this, I'm gonna rip into you.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure, sure.

[Jordan Carlos]

They know I'm about to call them all sorts of names.

[Whitney Cummings]

I just want a heads up that. Yeah, I texted. I texted you earlier, and I was like, is there anything you want to talk about? Is anything you don't want to talk about? I. I don't love going in rogue on something and being like, oh, we're doing this.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because if you catch me on the wrong day, like, I need. I need a little heads up.

[Jordan Carlos]

A little heads up.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. Because if you catch me on the wrong day, it could get just like, real West Virginia, real fast.

[Jordan Carlos]

Really?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Where it can get really, like.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, it's like, I'll go. I'll say something that will change the way you see yourself.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, gotcha.

[Whitney Cummings]

And it won't even be like a.

[Jordan Carlos]

Joke, but I like that. I think that's good. Well, then also my personality is a little bit like a person constantly seeking help. Like, that's how I. That. That is like my. A problem that I have.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

But also my entire Persona is basically like, whatever you have to offer me, I will take and absorb it, which.

[Whitney Cummings]

Is an issue you're asking people that, like, literally will be in jail.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right, right, right, right, Exactly.

[Whitney Cummings]

I have really no plan for this podcast. I did think something that would be fun to do is from. For us to interview each other about each other. Because something happens in this business where, like, I always say, like a comedian I've never met, I'm closer to than any man I've ever dated.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, we're just so. It's so hard to tell who your friend is and who your co worker is. And it's so hard to tell, like, who's your sister and who's a complete stranger. And like, I feel so close to you, but I really don't know you. It's crazy that it's.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Sid was just saying that my. My friend who's with me, she was like. The way you talk, the comedians talk is like. You immediately get to like the most acute thing, big talk.

[Whitney Cummings]

Only we don't do small talk. We don't do small talk.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

We can't do it.

[Jordan Carlos]

But yeah, totally.

[Pat Regan]

I like.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because like, that's the other thing is then we're like, if I went on legions of skanks and they were being mean to me, my version of being mean to me is them being like, so how was your flight?

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, my God. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

Why do you hate me?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Whereas if they're like, so your mom was an alcoholic? I'm like, let's go. You know what I mean? It's. Don't make me pretend. Whatever it is. Don't make me.

[Pat Regan]

Yes, yes.

[Whitney Cummings]

Don't make me pretend.

[Jordan Carlos]

I agree. I agree. I want the heaviest questions possible.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, yeah, me too. Me too. But also, I just saw an aunt and here's the thing. I am one with the wilderness at the moment, and I did. I imagine that aunt.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Are you sure?

[Jordan Carlos]

Which is a sign of schizophrenia, I do think.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. You know what's weird? Thank you. So you know what's kind of. Even.

[Pat Regan]

That is cute.

[Jordan Carlos]

Even that can is branded adorably. Look at that. That's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

This is my. Well, we did realize that I am using all natural ant and roach spray, which I believe is just ant and roach food because it is like some plant food. And then they drink my energy drink, so they just like, are getting fed and caffeinated. I kind of was just thinking about, like, okay, I am convinced we are all out of things to talk about.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, what is else is there to say?

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, but something I'm so fascinated with you is like, when you sit down and podcast, like. Like what makes you decide what direction to go in?

[Jordan Carlos]

Interesting.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't know how to. Can you tell me what a podcast is?

[Jordan Carlos]

This is a conversation I just had with Nick Mullen on my podcast where he was like, it's insane. What a pod. What a podcast is. Is that the. It's what people put on in their house. Not in order to obtain information. Yeah. But in order to listen to the brain of a creative person. To find resonation in themselves.

[Whitney Cummings]

Interesting. Do you feel sometimes like you overshare and regret it later?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

When somebody sends me a photo of my dad's house that's dead.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

When somebody goes, hey, I. I literally went a fan the other day drew a picture of my dead father and gave it to me at a show and I almost threw up on him. I was like, this is a photo of my father. This is insane. Like that. It's totally. It's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

So how long ago did your dad die? Because there's a lot of stuff I don't know about you.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I was 2310.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay. Cuz I started listening to your podcast and I was like, let me just like. Because I feel like we also all go into podcasts assuming everyone listening listens to all of them and no one listens to all of them. Like, no one can. No one sane listens to all of them. So it's like I'm like, how do I. How do I become friends with her without just listening to every podcast she's ever been on?

[Jordan Carlos]

Because there's people. That's why we podcast those. So people think they're friends with us. So they show up to buy tickets.

[Whitney Cummings]

But I think to start a real friendship. My thing is never listen to any. Please don't listen to any podcast I've ever done. Like, what would we do if we were just meeting as friends? We talk. Okay.

[Jordan Carlos]

We talk immediately, probably.

[Whitney Cummings]

I have a problem. I'm trying. I'm quitting gossip.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's good.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm 30 days. No gossip.

[Jordan Carlos]

Nuh.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, it's interesting because sometimes, like, constructive criticism is. I'm fascinated by what happens when you kick an addiction and it's whack a mole and transmogrifies into a different kind of addiction. Right. Or how you justify continuing to do it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Justify continuing to do the original condition. Original.

[Whitney Cummings]

Basically satiate the original instinct.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like replacing the addiction with quitting alcohol. One of my moms quitting alcohol and then becoming a CrossFit junkie.

[Whitney Cummings]

Exactly. Which is like super common. But so for me, instead of gossiping, I go, you know, I look at what she came from. I'll positive gossip.

[Jordan Carlos]

No, I hate that.

[Whitney Cummings]

And forgive her. I'll be like, well, you'd be like that too. Imagine if you went through that. Of course they're jealous of you, but.

[Jordan Carlos]

Can'T you do that in your Head, but not out loud. Because also the thing that biologically creates women is the fact that, that we have to gossip in order to survive. We've always had to do that. Like as monkeys, we had to be like that alpha male eats its babies.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think most of the things though, that kept us alive and were super beneficial to us even up to 200 years ago are just now the very things that are killing us.

[Jordan Carlos]

I agree with that. I very much agree with that. But I do. Like, I had a professor, I was a philosophy major. My, My advisor was.

[Whitney Cummings]

He wrote, don't you think that should be illegal? Why would they let women think any more than they already have to?

[Jordan Carlos]

Any more than we already are forced to just by existing?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like why would they go like, be in your head more.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And pay.

[Jordan Carlos]

I think it helps sort it. That's, that's how I felt when I found it. Because I was like, I'm. My whole thing was like, when I got into philosophy, I was like, I don't understand how my personality is formed. Like people say, Jordan, and I'm like, who is that? How is that? But then philosophy, they were trying to figure out the answer to that. So I became obsessed with it. Everything else, I was like, why do I care about some truth that's already been found? Why would I study something that we know?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, like history.

[Jordan Carlos]

We know it. Whereas philosophy, they don't know.

[Whitney Cummings]

What we know isn't true though.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right, right, right. What we know isn't true. Yeah, but it happened. Whereas philosophy is so open ended.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like we don't know. Yeah, I'm on some. Like, does that feel true? Yeah, like that just doesn't feel true.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like what? Give me an example.

[Whitney Cummings]

Women mature faster than men.

[Jordan Carlos]

It doesn't feel true.

[Whitney Cummings]

First of all, who made this? What decided to go? You know what I want to study? I want to put little girls and little boys in a room and watch them ma. Sl. First of all, any children whose parents put them in a study are gonna have to mature pretty quickly because they have to parent themselves because their parents are like handing them over to strangers at some university for $50.

[Jordan Carlos]

But haven't you seen your boy next to a girl his same age? And the girl is advanced. Define advanced, I guess the capacity for higher concepts.

[Whitney Cummings]

I had that at 15 and all it did was get me into some jams dating 30 year old men. Men are the ones that tell women we're so mature so they can date us.

[Jordan Carlos]

Interesting.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you're so mature for Your age. Like, I don't even know what that means. Higher concepts. I'm really good at talking.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah, I can talk.

[Whitney Cummings]

Until you go, well, that's interesting. And then you've decided I'm mature. The only thing maturity is at this point is the ability to shut your mouth.

[Jordan Carlos]

Then men are more mature.

[Whitney Cummings]

The ability to just go like, I don't know. That to me is like peak maturity.

[Jordan Carlos]

And to not. Yeah, be defensive of it, I think. I don't know how they measure. I mean, this is how it comes down to everything. Like you take an IQ test and somebody's like, well, this was created by white people that says that black people are less. I mean, everything is semantic in that.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure.

[Jordan Carlos]

You know what I mean?

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure.

[Jordan Carlos]

But I do think if you have a kid, I do think when you have a two kids and you watch and I had a son and a daughter and the son was not evolving, it was not doing as well in school as the daughter. I would lean on the pre established truth that he's not stupid. Girls just mature faster. I think they're coping mechanisms.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's what I'm saying. Maturity is. And by the way, calling it maturity, I don't like it because it makes it like a positive thing. I had to be an adult when I was 12.

[Jordan Carlos]

Mature, I think is able to also they control their emotions. Like boys just smash.

[Whitney Cummings]

Girls are famous for controlling their emotions.

[Jordan Carlos]

Well, maybe it's further from Neanderthal. Like I think when you have a boy smashing, you might have a girl doing light algebra.

[Whitney Cummings]

But if you're in a study, it means your parents put you in a study.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

So anything you're doing is a trauma response. And if you're mature, it's because you're already emotionally caretaking your parents because they like pimp you out to studies.

[Jordan Carlos]

I want to run more body feelings by you. True or false.

[Whitney Cummings]

Can't wait.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay, an avoidant can become secure.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't believe in any of those terms. Okay, here's the other thing. No two people have the same definition of the same word. That's the other thing. We have to like agree on the definition of these words.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay. An avoidant is somebody who feels constricted by affection and anxious is somebody who.

[Whitney Cummings]

Feels affection from anyone. Yes, but what if they haven't met their person yet? That won't make them feel constricted. What if everyone they've been with has been suffocating?

[Jordan Carlos]

Have you ever seen that happen? Where a full avoidant person finds. Are you an avoidant?

[Whitney Cummings]

I Don't believe in any. I avoid being with the wrong person. I do. Where's my trophy for not staying secure?

[Jordan Carlos]

Avoidant means when somebody, when somebody tells me they love me, I lose respect for them.

[Whitney Cummings]

You don't think I didn't take an 11 month attachment strategy class? Yeah, that's where I forgave all of my ancestors in meditation. I forgive you. You forgive me. I forgive myself.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

But I do think that we're conflating a lot of our survival mechanisms and honestly just gut feelings with some kind of mental illness. We're like, I think we over pathologize ourselves. If someone says I love you and you lose respect to them, is that just because you don't see yourself as lovable?

[Pat Regan]

Yes.

[Whitney Cummings]

So you think they're lying if somebody.

[Jordan Carlos]

For example, a friend of mine just played a voice memo from the guy they're dating and say, listen to how sweet. And he goes, hey, you know, I care about you so much. And I got sick and I was like, that guy's pathetic.

[Whitney Cummings]

Do you think you have two moms?

[Pat Regan]

I got.

[Jordan Carlos]

I have three moms and a dead dad.

[Whitney Cummings]

Did you grow up with men are bad?

[Jordan Carlos]

I grew up with women are bad.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay.

[Jordan Carlos]

A little both.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

And men should not act like women. Men should be very mean. And if they're not mean, they're.

[Whitney Cummings]

Women aren't mean.

[Jordan Carlos]

Women are bad. 100 bad. Women are all bad.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm just on some like, like masculine and femininity stuff. It's like, it's like when people say like comedy is such a male dominated business, but it's a female art. It's our. This is our thing.

[Jordan Carlos]

It is our thing.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like commanding attention and like talking about our day.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And like talking about our feelings. Like if it was at 3:30, it would be female. You guys just put it at midnight.

[Jordan Carlos]

Totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

So that it's your thing now. It's. What is more feminine than getting on stage and talking about your depression?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

Next to a pot of flowers.

[Pat Regan]

Right.

[Jordan Carlos]

If you look at a group of drunk men and women, the men are.

[Whitney Cummings]

Trying to get validation. Like, do you like me? Do you like me?

[Jordan Carlos]

They're trying to have sex with women and the women are talking about the space in the room and the zeitgeist.

[Whitney Cummings]

But you're literally trying to get strangers to like you. Like that's our thing, you know? So I just. Those words, like I am so on some, like how do we even get past that?

[Jordan Carlos]

This word you're trying to like, you're postmodern.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, that's probably John Bojard's. Like, my. The only thing that ever made anything make sense to me, that's the first time I didn't feel crazy, really, is when I read Jumbo Draw.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay. And I'm more of like a Kantian. Words are very helpful. Categories are helpful.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Because in order to be able to say, like, this thought is an obsessive compulsive thought, this thought is an attachment thought. This thought is very helpful. The idea that semantics don't.

[Pat Regan]

Yes.

[Jordan Carlos]

The naming. It is crucial.

[Whitney Cummings]

Maybe it's this. I think we're all going like words. We all talk to too many people. We're designed to talk to, like seven people our whole lives.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And we all have the same definition of everything. I just think there's a. It's like. Remember when we had, like, reading groups in school?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

There's like blue and gold and brown or whatever.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like they separated us.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Now we're all talking to each other.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

So people that use the word wrong. Maybe I get tripped up because I'm like. But that's not what it means. You look over tick tock and like. Well, because avoidant in this and anxious attached and all this kind of stuff. It's like, hold on.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

You know, there's also, like, when you're suffering immensely and you find a word for it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like when somebody has pure O. The pure obsession thing. And they're like, I don't have OCD because I'm not doing the rituals. And then they go, well, pure obsession, which is. You're just looping stuff in your head.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

They get relief 100% the more I, like, have all these labels on myself. You better get better.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

With all that self awareness. Otherwise it's just an excuse.

[Jordan Carlos]

Anybody who's using it as an excuse needs to stop.

[Whitney Cummings]

What I don't like is when it gets weaponized. Like, I. The number of men who've been like, well, you're avoidant. I'm like, no, I don't want to date you.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, that's interesting. I'm somebody who will pull out any card to get out of dating somebody. I'll be like, I have spina bifida. I'm really sorry. I'll do anything besides say, I don't want to do it. I. Oh, I know.

[Whitney Cummings]

I gotta be honest. That's like my kink now.

[Jordan Carlos]

I in my Special comes out September 9th. It's already out.

[Whitney Cummings]

Let's go.

[Jordan Carlos]

I talk about that where the idea of having A boundary is something that takes so long to get to.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I would argue it takes a certain level of attractiveness.

[Whitney Cummings]

Huh.

[Jordan Carlos]

My friends who have boundaries are my hottest friends. They're my most beautiful, most secure, hot friends who. And I'm like, yeah, I would love to have boundaries, but my.

[Pat Regan]

The, the.

[Jordan Carlos]

The self hate far outweighs. Like, it's like, why don't you stand up for yourself? And it's like, I've done that. And what happens is people go, oh, great, I didn't really want to be around you anyway. And I go, oh, like, you know.

[Whitney Cummings]

But isn't a good way to weed people out?

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, I mean, I'm getting there. But fat mall goth Jordan setting boundaries, being like, actually, you're treating me bad. No, she's not doing that. She's letting people treat her bad.

[Whitney Cummings]

This thing where people just text you all day, like just Tuesday at 4. What's up, stranger? Like, huh?

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, I lost my temper at a cold call today. I got a cold call. Cold call from a person, from a human being.

[Pat Regan]

Cold call.

[Whitney Cummings]

Are you in the ambulance? Like, where, what, what hospital am I going to?

[Jordan Carlos]

It's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, are you mental? What are you up to? It's Wednesday at 11:30am yeah, yeah. You're basically just saying like, hey, so you're irrelevant now, huh? Dancing with the stars around the corner. Yeah, like it's actually an. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, so you're just retired. Like it's so odd to me the way. And I wrote back to her, a friend of mine, saying, hey, first of all, when someone asked me a question, what are you doing next week? Do you have a question for me? Yeah, I get a hey, how are your shows in Austin?

[Jordan Carlos]

I'm already furious.

[Whitney Cummings]

I wrote back, love you. Can't do small talk in 2025.

[Pat Regan]

Nice.

[Whitney Cummings]

She just wrote, haha, love you too. I'll let you know. But I thought that was it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Well, why don't you say why you're really texting me? You saw a video of me and you were reminded that you wanted to be in my life. Because that's happening today. Because I just posted a special thing. Random calls from friends I haven't talked to in years to me, or like.

[Whitney Cummings]

Who are like, the water's warm suddenly.

[Jordan Carlos]

I want to be your friend.

[Whitney Cummings]

Last name? I wish that I could do that. I'm kidding. What happens when that. And what's wrong with that? Isn't that why we're doing this? To get attention?

[Jordan Carlos]

I want the attention of people that aren't them. I want my ex boyfriend's attention.

[Whitney Cummings]

Why? What's that gonna. Where's that gonna get us?

[Jordan Carlos]

I don't want the attention of somebody that I stopped being friends with on purpose two years ago. You know what I mean?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yes.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I also. Dude, the amount of times I saw your clip today, I'm like, that's the most alienating thing you could have ever said to me. Don't say that. You know what I mean? Be like, I've. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

What could someone say?

[Jordan Carlos]

I miss you, period.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Do you have time to hang out next week? I'll be in New York. Not. Not on the day that I post a giant thing. Be like, hey, what's up? Remember that I'm in your life. It's like, I remember.

[Whitney Cummings]

Hey, I know you're busy, but I just wanted to intrude.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Hey, I know you're busy. I know this is a busy day.

[Whitney Cummings]

I know you're in the middle of something. I know you're slammed, but I just wanted to distract you.

[Jordan Carlos]

I told a comic last night, I was like, I'm so slammed tomorrow. I'm doing so many podcasts. And he called me.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm like, what are you doing?

[Jordan Carlos]

You're calling me on the. I just told you this. It's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

My dog is getting older. I don't want to talk about it. It's not happening. It's not real. We're in a simulation. As long as my dog is getting older, here's the deal. She's, like, kind of less active, and she. Her breath is. I mean, truly just slamming. I did start a product called Ruff Greens. They sent it. She does have more energy. She is. Seems a little bouncier. Seems like a little more youthful. I'm thinking about eating it myself. It is just. It' not even dog food. It's like this live nutritional supplement that you put on top of the food. It's got, like, vitamins, minerals, probiotics, enzymes, omega oils. I love that I didn't have to change my dog's food because she's happy with it and it's good for her teeth. I just add rough greens on top. It's that easy. Rough Greens is offering a free Jumpstart trial bag. You just cover shipping. Use discount code whitney@rough greens.com. that's Ruff Greens.com promo code. Whitney, don't change your dog's food. Just add in rough greens and watch the health benefits come alive. Everyone, fall is here.

[Jordan Carlos]

Fall is here.

[Pat Regan]

Okay?

[Whitney Cummings]

It's Time for some hot nude duds. It's time for to put on a skirt with tights like a good girl. Quince makes it effortless to get a new wardrobe for this fall season. You guys know that I'm obsessed with quants. You know that I'm obsessed with the fact that their prices are actually what things should cost. They I, I truly wear this white cashmere like button down like 90s Dream Girl cardigan with everything that I own. Got it at Quint. It's become my one stop shop. They have cashmere sweaters, truly $50. They're soft, they're warm, washable silk blouses, skirts. I, I'm in like a total Quint uniform situation and I am, I mean truly legendary when it comes to the esthetics. They look like designer styles but a fraction of the price. What makes Quince different, you ask? They partner directly with ethical top tier factories, cutting out middlemen so that you get luxury quality staples at half the price of other brands. It's like a wardrobe upgrade that is effortless. They also by the way have amazing luggage, kids clothes. Like it's. They truly have everything. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long last staples from quince. Go to quince.com whitney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince. Q U-I-N c e.com whitney I wanted us to both tell each other how we're perceived.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, that's so good.

[Whitney Cummings]

That is so good.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's amazing.

[Whitney Cummings]

And like what I hear about you and what I hear about you is a problem.

[Pat Regan]

What is it?

[Whitney Cummings]

It's that you're really nice.

[Jordan Carlos]

Really?

[Whitney Cummings]

And that's when I'm like, I feel like she's doesn't have mountain. Like she's so not. I mean it's always obviously she's so cool. She's so funny. Like you're truly like beloved. Beloved. But I'd be insulted if people weren't like, she's kind of tough because I stopped giving hugs about eight years ago at the comments. I just, I can't. It's like it's not. I see you, I saw you guys.

[Jordan Carlos]

I see you have nice. I thought people. Ian always tells me that people think.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm such a. I mean that's just a projection.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

It just means you're pretty. Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

He's like, you're, you were cold to this person.

[Whitney Cummings]

But also what people? What people? It's like quotes.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's like so I don't think that's ever happened. I think he just wants me to feel.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

People are saying. Is a way for people to say what they think of you.

[Jordan Carlos]

While also I've told them that I'm like, I think you just want me to be nicer to you.

[Whitney Cummings]

I just go name them. Like, let's call him name them. So, you know, people say people think you're really nice. I'm always like, she probably doesn't say no a lot. I never probably, like, gives a lot.

[Jordan Carlos]

The thing that I've started to do, I ignore a lot. That's a big thing I do that people talk about where they're like, she doesn't respond to text.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's good.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't. Why would you.

[Pat Regan]

Huh? Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

I mean, I have so many.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yep.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Let's do this.

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

How many unanswered text messages do you have?

[Jordan Carlos]

14, 95.

[Whitney Cummings]

1502. Pretty close.

[Jordan Carlos]

That is really close. Holy shit.

[Whitney Cummings]

So it's just like the answers, but also the ones you respond to is too many. Again, this is our sort of thing is like this biological basis, like, we share this biological basis for behavior thing. I don't know why I started winking recently. When I try to, like, get. It's a new tip.

[Jordan Carlos]

The Katy Perry.

[Whitney Cummings]

I have a new tick. Oh, is it. Oh, right when she was like, glitching, which is like, we're only designed to dating. We're designed to have, like three options our whole life. Like the. The guy at the farm next door. The guy two miles down. Like, that's it.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And that you make your decision easy when you're looking through a catacomb, like, catalog. People like, not healthy, not designed for it. We're not designed to talk to this many people.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Of course you're anxious. If you saw this many people off 200 years ago, it was a war. Like, you were at war.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

What are the chances you have anything in common with more than five people?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's crazy. It is too many people. Especially in comedy, though. It's not like my. My friend who has a 9 to 5. She doesn't. She is starved for people.

[Whitney Cummings]

Do you isolate now?

[Jordan Carlos]

I am isolating way more now that I'm in therapy twice a week. Twice a week in a good isolation. And now I'm finally learning that the recharge is necessary. But in the recharge, I have to sit with a huge amount of discomfort.

[Whitney Cummings]

But do you. Anyone that can't handle you canceling on them is mentally ill. Yeah. Now, to be clear for Sure.

[Jordan Carlos]

I mean, that's what money and success has bought me, which is so awesome. You know what else can just cancel things?

[Whitney Cummings]

Like when I started being in. Which, by the way, when you cancel someone, if you want them to like you, that's how to make them like you.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Is to cancel on them and give them. You know that for Christmas. This was two years ago. I made dinner plans with five of my dearest friends, and then an hour before, canceled.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's why I said, for my birthday. Yeah, Yeah, I did that for my birthday.

[Whitney Cummings]

And you give them a free night.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I go, somebody. It was a long invite list. And then somebody commented Geminis. And it triggered me to be. I just was like, I don't want to be around people. And I canceled everything.

[Whitney Cummings]

And they're all like, she just gave us a night off.

[Jordan Carlos]

They didn't.

[Whitney Cummings]

Basically, when you have plans and it gets canceled, like, that's, like, free time that you never thought you'd have.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's so nice.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like, such a. When someone cancel, I'm like, thank you. Like, I feel closer to you, you having canceled on me and us not hanging out.

[Jordan Carlos]

But do you think the people that make it hard to cancel on are the ones to drop?

[Whitney Cummings]

I think they're people that recreate some childhood dynamic, and it's like a familiar neurochemical cocktail that is like, Harvl Hendricks, like, talks about it. Like, it just recreates the. They have the negative qualities of your primary caretaker. So it just feels familiar, and you get scared.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, really?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. Because you notice with some people, you're just like, no, I'm can't. With Ian, you don't do that. It's. With some people. So usually, like, I can tell what's going on with someone. Like, I'm not saying I'm diagnosing them, but by the way I react to them. If I start walking.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[Whitney Cummings]

I start walking on eggshells. If I start, like, complimenting and being, like, overly unctuous, I'm like, okay.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, that's really interesting.

[Whitney Cummings]

Would you want someone putting you on a pedestal like that? Or would you want someone, like, being torn apart because they canceled on you? Like, it's just.

[Jordan Carlos]

So then would Ian's breed be my ideal partner? Because I'm like, fuck you. Get away from me.

[Whitney Cummings]

His breed, you know what I mean, is inbreed.

[Jordan Carlos]

Somebody that you're able to be like, no, I'm not coming there. And you can't tell. Is that.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think it's someone who's boring. I think anyone that creates the pro boring, whoever's. It's not boring. It's absence of adrenaline, so.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's called the internal drug cabinet of, like, someone that causes chaos or something. And it's like, if you're gonna leave the house to get somewhere at four and it takes half hour. What time do you leave?

[Jordan Carlos]

It takes half hour, 3:35.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's like how you get adrenaline because adrenaline turns into dopamine. So it's like when my sponsor said to me was like. I was like, I don't know. And this guy. And it's just kind of like. But she's like, your problem is that you conflate boredom with serenity. Like, your tolerance for adrenaline is so high that when you're just present, it feels boring.

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Jordan Carlos]

But the adrenaline is so.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what?

[Jordan Carlos]

I was mourning so much.

[Pat Regan]

The.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay, so the idea of falling asleep next to my. My dad, who was like, just, like, sick of me. Like, I was just a farm girl, that he was just like, go away, get away. And I was like, dad, dad, dad, dad. The idea of him passing out, like, from working all day, and me being like, oh, my God, he's not mad at me, but he's here, which is so safe. The idea of falling asleep next to a guy who just really is annoyed by me is my favorite thing.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I was telling my therapist, I was like, the idea. I just started crying. I was like, the idea that you want me to let that go makes me want to hurt you.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like, the idea that I won't have the angry bear that I don't wake.

[Whitney Cummings]

Up and the chasing for approval. I mean, it really is like, I remember my dad, you know, could not get his attention just truly to save my life. And I do think once we get older, we do have to also go, like, is that what happened? Or is that how it felt?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because it might be how we're. Now that I have a kid, I'm like, if I survived, he was around. Like, someone was around, you know, I'm like, you know, and then it's like. And then I'm dating someone. Like, do we want to date our dads? Like, there's a point where you gotta, like, break the story spell. Because I was so obsessed with him, and so much of it was the puzzle of, like, how do I get his attention? And we're doing bad math as kids. Like, we don't know what's going. Like, we don't under we don't know if they're drunk or what's going on. Like, we're just blaming ourselves, going like, don't say that again. Don't do that again. And I remember the moment he was watching snl. It was Land Shark, the. I guess that's like Chevy Chase episode. Okay. This is. I literally became a comedian because all he did was watch comedy. And I was like, I can do it. I just started, like, quoting Rodney Dangerfield. I was like, I guess I'm a comedian now because this is what he looked at.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

When I was. Instead of me, like, I, I, I literally went like, I have to get in that box. Like, that's how I'll get his attention. And I was like, however I start. I was like, I gotta get in commercials. I gotta, like, I. First it was commercials because he would watch the commercials.

[Jordan Carlos]

So funny. The idea of you just, like, trying to get on the TV that he's watching. Just like, just a glass. I just like, brady, would you like to buy some Kellogg's? Is so, so cute. That's like my mom being so nice to her dogs. And me and my sister sliding our heads in and being like, could we.

[Whitney Cummings]

Get a little of that?

[Jordan Carlos]

And she's like, you are so cool.

[Whitney Cummings]

I love it when you talk through them. I remember going out and, like, saying something to him. And I remember thinking, like, that didn't go well.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

I was like a kid. And I remember going back and, like, regrouping and being like, okay, like, next time you go in, you're gonna like, yeah, funny.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And then I was like, ah, that didn't. And I just remember going, try a different personality. Yeah, try it. Like, I have no loyalty. To who? That person. Girl Scout. Done.

[Pat Regan]

Right.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

Didn't work.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I remember being in relationships, it was like, honestly, God, this is dark. Like, the happiest I've been is shape shifting in a relationship for a man who will truly never want to be.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's what I'm saying.

[Whitney Cummings]

I know, but that we don't get to have pizza every night for dinner.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay, but could we. How do we have it, though? Sometimes you can't.

[Whitney Cummings]

We can't. Addicts don't. Can't have just a little bit. We can't. We can't drink, like, gentleman. We can't.

[Jordan Carlos]

Maybe if I dated a guy who had, like, a bad sleepwalking problem. You know what I mean? So that way, I was like, you have to be careful. If he starts talking to sleep.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like, with My guy now, he lives in another city and I kind of need that.

[Jordan Carlos]

He does. Where does he live?

[Whitney Cummings]

He like San Diego.

[Jordan Carlos]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

Which is like two out.

[Jordan Carlos]

He doesn't live here?

[Whitney Cummings]

No.

[Jordan Carlos]

You live in this thing? You live here alone?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yes. And it's. Honestly, I'm Gramp.

[Jordan Carlos]

You're not scared?

[Whitney Cummings]

No, I'm scared of having to make eye contact with the same person every morning.

[Pat Regan]

Really? Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

You don't want him to live here?

[Whitney Cummings]

I would love for him to live here. He just has kids down south and honestly, I need a little distance. I need a little of that. Too much. It's just too much. It's just like. It's, it's. It's. I don't have the bandwidth because when I'm around someone, I just know I'm going to be worried about them. Are they entertained? Are they okay? Do they need anything? And that's exhausting to me, and not in a, like, negative way.

[Jordan Carlos]

You're very much a giver.

[Whitney Cummings]

No, I grew up around alcohol. See, this is what I think we were talking about in the beginning. I don't like a metaphor for something unhealthy, poised as something positive. Like, it's not a. It's a codependent. Like, I grew up an alcoholic mom and I have to caretake an adult.

[Jordan Carlos]

Is it give her a positive thing?

[Whitney Cummings]

Oh, maybe not always. See, yeah, Words, we gotta agree on them. Oh, people pleaser feels more like.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Or like, also, I don't like when something has a positive undertone when it's actually patriot. Like, I don't think he can figure out how to make his own coffee. Like, that's the other thing. When we're codependent and we're like, I can't go to this party. Ultimately we're saying. Because I'm like that too. Doing things out of obligation was the first thing I had to cut out in my Al Anon program. But going like, I have to go to this baby shower. I have to. Like, if I don't go, they're gonna cancel it. Like, the narcissism of thinking. Like, if I don't show up, they're gonna just shout.

[Jordan Carlos]

You ever go to one of those things when you force yourself to go and nobody gives a flying there? That's always when I like talk. I'm like, just go. Because everybody's expecting you to be there. You better show up. And then I show up and they're like, nobody talks.

[Whitney Cummings]

You showed up to an obligation party. You were an obligation invite.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, we have to invite her. We invited Ian. You know, like, here I am at your thing. Yeah. It's just like, what are we doing? Like, we're dying.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, we're literally dying. We both spent three hours.

[Jordan Carlos]

Wow. I thought you guys lived together. That's so cool.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, we're, like. I think just like. Like, radically accepting your nature, which is. Need a lot of space in order to, like, be really intimate with someone.

[Jordan Carlos]

Wow, that's good.

[Whitney Cummings]

That just works for me.

[Jordan Carlos]

Avoidant thing that you feel like you have to fix. It's how you are.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't. What is this thing where we're all supposed to just be, like, breathing each other's air every five minutes? Like, it's just too much.

[Jordan Carlos]

It just depends on. It depends on if you're suffering from it or not.

[Whitney Cummings]

Uhhuh.

[Jordan Carlos]

You know what I mean? If you. If you agree to let him move in and after you've come to this conclusion that he moves in, and then all of a sudden you want him dead, that's you suffering from it.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't. I've. This is like. I love having him around, but I love being in a relationship where I can be an individual. So it's like interdependence versus codependence.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

So it's like my. My therapist does these things where she'll just. I. I'm more of a visual person. Like, words. I start, like, tuning out. Like, words, I think, sometimes get in the way of communication. I know that's, like, the most, like, Asperger's thing to say, but is. She's like, if you hold a pile of sand in your hand like this forever, you can hold it, but if you hold it like this, you're gonna lose it.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I hold on too tight.

[Pat Regan]

Do you.

[Whitney Cummings]

I hold on too tight. Or I expect I have the emotional perfectionism. Or I expect us to be super lockstep. Like, Alison Brie was on the podcast. Do you remember this Pat, where she lives with Davey, and they spend, like, 20. You know, they work together. They do all this stuff. I'm like, so walk me through this. When you are. This is how feral I am and how. Same thing, neglected thing. When you come out of the bathroom and he's in the bedroom and you pass each other, like, do you say, hi?

[Jordan Carlos]

I've never lived in a space bigger than this office with person.

[Whitney Cummings]

See, that's the thing with New Yorkers. It is so hard to ascertain if you're avoidant or any you're all secure if you're willing to live in a room with another human being.

[Jordan Carlos]

I mean, me and Coyote literally live in a studio like it is.

[Whitney Cummings]

It is just wild to me that like anyone in New York is like, I have avoided, you know, you just don't want to share a toilet.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

That doesn't have a door with this guy you met on Raya. Okay, let's talk about dinner meal planning. Is it's just like a full time job at this point. I have a child. Ordering takeout is like a nightmare. It's just trash, trash, trash. Ants, Ants, ants. Home Chef fixed this entire thing for me, changed how I cook. Home Chef delivers fresh pre portioned ingredients, which is actually really important because I can't use knives because I have a toddler. I can't even cut stuff even if I want to. So it already comes pre portion Chef design recipes comes right to your door. Each week there are 35 different meals, 18 extras to choose from. Whether you want classic meal k 30 minute recipes. I've like a million, billion, billion different kinds. Kid friendly dishes. Really good food for kids as well. And here's something I actually didn't expect. It's really affordable. Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. Plus their new five ingredient meals make cooking even faster with simple recipes using just five fresh ingredients. So for a limited time, my listeners are gonna get 50 off your first box plus free shipping and free dessert for life. Yes. Dessert for Life. That is so crazy. Go to homechef.com Whitney home chef.com Whitney for half off your first box and dessert for life. You must be an active subscriber. This show is sponsored by Better Help. We've all done it. You turn to a friend, a barista, a random stranger in the bathroom line for advice about life. And while that can be fun when it comes to real struggles and relationship stress, anxiety or depression, I don't. That's not your guy. Okay? Can we all just stop taking advice about relationships from single people and relation work advice from people that go to Burning Man? Like, it's just we gotta go to professionals for our advice because you guys are getting your advice from astrologers and it's showing. All right? That is where Better Help comes in. I am telling you, Better Help is the world's largest online therapy platform with over 30,000 licensed therapists and more than 5 million people served. They've been helping people find their right match for over 10 years. With a 4.9 rating from 1.7 million reviews. After a short questionnaire, they're going to match you with a therapist who works for you. You started. If your first match isn't the one, you can switch to a different therapist anytime. No extra cost. It's therapy designed to fit your life online. Flexible on your schedule. Find one with better help. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] that's better help. HP.com Whitney when I look back on every.

[Jordan Carlos]

My. Every epoch of my life, it's every epoch of my life has a name and it's a male's name. Like, it's not like, this is when I started comedy. It's. That's the Paul era. That's the, you know, Zach era. Right. And that's because my entire life I've been fighting for one dude. It's why on stage, this guy on stage was like, what it seems like you don't care about. Because I just will ask anything. I'm like, because I only care about one person's affection.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's one. And I have. And if they think I'm okay, I'm good. If they don't think I'm okay, I'm thriving. Because then I'm fighting for something. This is because I won my mom, I won my dad. I won their affection with success. I got it. I got it. I got skinny enough, I got talented enough, and I did it with the boyfriend. It's a new mom. It's a new person who's like, I don't know about this.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

So I can't. I need. So I need some omnipotent presence. Being like, that's not good enough. That's not good enough.

[Whitney Cummings]

But it can't be someone that's not a romantic attachment.

[Jordan Carlos]

No, I mean, like, it. It can be myself sometimes. It can be like, if I have a task at hand, it could be like fitness, it could be diet, it could be whatever I'm obsessing about at the time. But the. The one. It's always for the sake. I always say, ww. Like, what would whoever the person is do?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like, it's always for the sake of whoever. The last person I'm in love with, whoever I'm gunning for.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I remember one time I was, like, playing like a big theater. It was like. Like, this is it. Like, I was living one of my dreams and I was in a relationship with someone that would be categorized as I was preoccupied. Whatever.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I was checking my phone during the show.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I was checking. No, during the show.

[Jordan Carlos]

Dude, this thing. Dude, the corner pull down. The amount of times I've been on stage at a big show. Corner, pulling down and have been checking to see. I mean, I've done these people are it.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I'm like, I'm pretending. I'm checking the time.

[Pat Regan]

Oh, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I have somewhere to be after. Like, it was just like, let me.

[Jordan Carlos]

Look at my notes and send a text. Text being like, are you mad? Or something like that. So many times I've blown off so many people I care about and things that were important in order to finish an argument so that I could be okay. Sure, sure. Yeah. I've, like, sabotaged.

[Whitney Cummings]

Oh, I. I look back at a couple things and, like, it is just a. Like, using a person as a drug. And the way that I got out of it was going, like, but I'm using a person. And, like, I don't like when men use women for their body or we, like, we complain about that. But I'm using you for adrenaline.

[Jordan Carlos]

I'm using adrenaline.

[Whitney Cummings]

Now you're my drug dealer.

[Jordan Carlos]

Dealer.

[Whitney Cummings]

Here's. I am actually kind of like, because I've done so many, like, adrenaline, dopamine, detoxes. I. There's so much naturally kind of in my life that I do trust. Like, I get it anyway from, like, toxic family members and, like, weird curveballs and, like, the business we're in. There's always going to be some, you know, and for me now it's uncomfortable. Like, I don't like it. It's like, it's rude.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's a rude thing.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what it is? Because there's certain things that you just have to understand what makes you change. Like, what makes you change.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like, when mine is. Mine is telling myself that if I don't do something, this will happen. It's like, why I got into college was because my mom was like, it's okay. You can just go to the community college. And I was like, so it's like, if you don't lose weight, you will end up like that.

[Whitney Cummings]

Interesting. Okay, so it's like some kind of threat or, like, that's a really healthy one. Mine is. I'll literally go, like, this is aging me.

[Pat Regan]

Wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

I stopped drinking wine because it's like, oh, this is just calories. Empty calories. It's sugar.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's why I stopped drinking, too.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, smoking, it gives you little lines around your mouth. Say, no, more like vanity. Sometimes as sick as it can be, it can be a very same, like, Thing with jealousy. Jealousy can be a very good motivator. I like to, like, rebrand it as, like, healthy competition.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

But like, an engine's an engine.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm typing away on my little type hipster typewriter.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know something? Wait a second. Well, she got that thing. It's like, I can be happy for her and she can be my friend, but it can also make me go.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like, oh, my new thing is also sleep. My adrenaline around sleep, where it's like you. The sleep is the end. Is the prize that you fight for at the end of every day.

[Whitney Cummings]

Oh.

[Jordan Carlos]

Because it used to be like, I'll get five hours and I'll keep going. And now it's like, bro, if you get nine hours of sleep, you won't.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what you are?

[Pat Regan]

What?

[Whitney Cummings]

You're a winner.

[Jordan Carlos]

Thank you.

[Whitney Cummings]

Now, here's the thing. Life has got. We used to have to fight tooth and nail for water, for food, for anything to, like, survive. Honestly. A friend of mine just passed away at 42 years old. My best friend and I have this weird epiphany. Thank you. Sorry. I'm so uncomfortable talking about it. I just want to get to the part where I was like. I was, like, feeling so sorry for myself. And so did. I was like, wait a second. Like, 200 years ago, the average life expectancy was like. Like 30.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what I mean?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I'm like, she didn't live till she was 150. Like, you know how quickly. It's like Louis CK's joke that he used to do about, like, how quickly there was WI fi on the plane.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And it's. As soon as it went down, everyone was like, God damn it. It's like, we are all so spoiled and life is so easy that I think that people with our kind of, like, ancestral lineage, we have to, like, create problems and puzzles.

[Jordan Carlos]

Totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because we're hamsters in a cage.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, that's just all we're doing.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

What else? Honestly, what else are we. What do you want to do?

[Jordan Carlos]

The saber tooth tiger must have been sick. When. Right now. We would have just been sitting here and been like. And we just heard a growl. I mean, that's. We would have thrived, dude.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's what I'm saying. This is we. This is not the environment in which our adaptive behaviors are rewarded or praised.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

We're over evolved. Which is why I'm saying if you live in New York, if you lived in Nebraska, you would run it.

[Jordan Carlos]

It.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You'd Run Nebraska.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You're designed to be like a mafia.

[Pat Regan]

Thank you.

[Whitney Cummings]

Behind a man who's like, you know.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, the.

[Jordan Carlos]

Just a cover.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

Who's like, making a double of you.

[Jordan Carlos]

And you get that out of the fact that sleep is my goal.

[Whitney Cummings]

No, you're finding little ways to motivate yourself and, like, punish and create adversity for yourself.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, totally. I have to find better ways than the stupid. Because something happens when you're chasing the man where you all of a sudden, they like. Like they do something and you. You catch it, you catch this little glimpse and you go, dude, oh, you're just a doofus. Dude, oh, no, you're a doofus.

[Whitney Cummings]

When the spell breaks.

[Jordan Carlos]

When the spell breaks, you're like, oh, my God, I've spent so long trying to. Or like, something will happen. More like I'll be wearing an outfit that's so curated to represent a liberal ceramic art teacher. Right. And they see you and they go, like, what are you, a hippie? And I go, what is this? Oh, you don't understand. Even simple stuff like that. I'm our teacher.

[Whitney Cummings]

Have you had a stalker yet?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And what happened?

[Jordan Carlos]

Created a million different accounts. I blocked, created more accounts, drove from one gig to the other, which was like, took him two days to get to showed up.

[Whitney Cummings]

So you're stalking him?

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, I'm stalking him, to be clear.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, he.

[Jordan Carlos]

So he showed up in a car, he drove around and then had it. There was one like, I think one of the stalkers just pacing around the club that I was in the other night.

[Whitney Cummings]

But where's that one now, the other one?

[Jordan Carlos]

I don't know.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't know what you did something that made him think you're a doofus.

[Jordan Carlos]

Nice.

[Whitney Cummings]

So that is how I learned about this thing. Although I had it before where I would be madly in love with someone. I did a joke about it at my HBO special. I was madly in love with this guy and we were in New York and he tripped and fell.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And like, that was. Was like a night. It was like a. Like, immediately, like.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like his breath smell bad all of a sudden. Like, get away from me. It was like. That's when I was like, oh, like, biological basis is like such a real thing.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Nothing we're doing is conscious. Like, nothing.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And he will call me all the same thing. Call all day, every day. The LAFD comes by. I have to get on the phone with him for three minutes so that they can figure out where he is. This was like, 10 years ago. So I don't know if that's.

[Jordan Carlos]

What was he doing? Threatening?

[Whitney Cummings]

There was no threatening. There was just like, hey, I miss you.

[Jordan Carlos]

Where are you?

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, why aren't you, like, I'm on my way to your house? He would say, like, it was like, an alternative reaction reality. What's that?

[Jordan Carlos]

On your way to the house? Is it threatening?

[Whitney Cummings]

But I don't know if you know where I live. Like, I don't know, like, most stalkers, like, really aren't, or.

[Jordan Carlos]

He would fully pretend you were in a relationship.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, he just. He was in an alternative reality.

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, and so it was just. We have to just figure out where he is. Right. And by the way, good for him. Good for him.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

The rest of us are, like, living in reality, like bozos.

[Jordan Carlos]

I know he's dating you.

[Whitney Cummings]

This guy's in an amazing relationship.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

He's in a really.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay. Calling a guy, Calling a girl all day, every day. Because if he called a real girl all day, every day, it wouldn't be enough, would it?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay. He's chilling. And so I get on the phone, and I'm like, what's up? I'm just. Yes. Anding. And after, like, two minutes, I get kind of squirrely. Like, I kind of like. He said something that just, like, threw me, and he hung up. And they were like, great, we got his location. Whatever. Don't hear from him for a week. And they call and they're like, hey, great news. Your stalker has moved on to another public figure.

[Jordan Carlos]

You were a little heartbroken.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like, who is she? Like, I'm not mad. Like, it is. I did something on that call that broke the spell.

[Pat Regan]

Wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

So once they see that you're kind of human, they move on.

[Jordan Carlos]

But you must not have picked up before too much.

[Whitney Cummings]

I didn't pick up at all this first time. I picked up.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

So they got you, which is, like, I did something, like, desperate or unattractive.

[Jordan Carlos]

No, it's that you answered or that.

[Whitney Cummings]

Or that.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's that you answered, and it was no longer a yeah or that.

[Whitney Cummings]

So much. It's like, we are animals. It helps me so much. Like. Like, when you ask, like, anything. When we talk about, like, neuroscience or therapy or anything, I just go, like, what? Do an. Like, we're animals. I think saying we're human is such a weird.

[Jordan Carlos]

Like, we're little monkeys in outfits.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I just mean, like, dogs chase cars and they don't have a plan.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I'm Gonna chase that car. Once I get there, I'll figure out what that's kind of me too. Like. Like, even if I got you, I don't even think I know what to do with you.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I've chased the guy for years and then gotten him and been like, huh, you're shorter than I remember in my imaginary relationship with you.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's such a good game to play, though. I mean, it really is a. It's a. It's feels good. It feels good to get the little dopamine hits. It feels good to win the game. And when I told my therapist this, I was like, when he shut it all down, it's a slot machine.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's gambling.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I was like, what you're telling me to do is focus on my own life. And I just like, broke down. I was like, the amount of. Of that is going on, the fact that every night I have to get up on stage and get a laugh every five to 30 seconds is so overwhelming. And that I have this much stuff booked in my calendar, but. And I was like, it's so much easier to just put blinders on and just be like, look at that one person. It's so easy. But you're right that it is using a person.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think when it comes to therapy, like, I. I do like you said, you have the therapist. And I always bristle a little bit because I find that you're not one of these people. But I find a lot of people, the more they're in therapy, the worse there they have just become worse people, sicker, like monsters. Your recovery or I'm like, bull. It depends on the recovery, Depends on the therapist, you know what I mean? So I got my phone stolen in a meeting once and. But it's also saved my life. Like, it's like everything's everything. There's a little of everything ever. And so a therapist, I think, is good when they can take a complicated brain and simplify into something, you know, because we over complicate when someone can say something simple and it makes sense to us. Like, that's when I think I can change and I can never unsee something in a way. Right?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And this guy was like, I was trying to be so like the soft place for him to land. And I was like wearing skirts and I'd have like limes in the house and. Oh yeah, it's so this whatever cosplay I was doing to just kind of like get into this disassociate. Because that's the other thing I Disassociated a lot as a kid.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And to get into that disassociative state was like, it's not even a choice.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, boom. Like, just, like, hair extensions, but, like. Like, braids. Two braids. In what world? Like, who is this person? Like, word. Shakespeare in the park.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

What is happening? Taking stickers off the avocados, like, that's gonna make or break it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right? Right. Like, oh, my God. Me making oatmeal for this dude. And at one time, I it up, and I was like, this is it. It's the end.

[Whitney Cummings]

Oatmeal is always up every way you've ever eaten 100. There's never been oatmeal that wasn't. That worked.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, I know.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like pita chips. Like, they come stale. Like, what do we.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

This is what's so great about it, is you learn everything about yourself when you're doing that. So the stickers and the avocados, that's the kind of thing where, if I saw it, I'd be like, he doesn't take his stickers off his avocados. I'm pretending he's this, like, American Psycho perfectionist who's like, she has stickers on her avocados. Never mind. I'm that person.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, he would.

[Jordan Carlos]

He doesn't even see it.

[Whitney Cummings]

He doesn't notice it.

[Jordan Carlos]

The limes.

[Whitney Cummings]

He thinks they're fake limes. In what world? He's like, why are your lemons not ripe? Like, he. Not appreciating it. That's me projecting. When someone's that unavailable, everything that you project is a mirror.

[Jordan Carlos]

This is what I've been going through with realizing the, like, obsession that I have with men and how capable they are and everything. The way that they. The way that they are. How do I say this? Like, manically. How do I say this? Like, their space is exactly what they need their space to be and nothing more.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a kennel.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's a kennel. And I realize. I respect that so much that I have switched my entire. Like, if you saw my apartment right now, you'd be like, oh, no, it's not that it's messy, but it's like every painting I've been doing, I just put right up on the wall. Like, it's like I'm putting this over here. This over. Like, it looks very much like an insane organizing.

[Pat Regan]

Oh, no, no.

[Jordan Carlos]

It looks like a. It looks like a up person's Apartment. It looks crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, the labyrinth. The lady at the end with all the stuff on her back.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Which I like.

[Whitney Cummings]

The lady with the traveling trash.

[Pat Regan]

Yes.

[Whitney Cummings]

The traveling garbage lady.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yes. And I respect that so much. And I realized that I was like, oh, this is what I'm looking for in men, is for them to just have, like, the tools are over there. Everything is only what they need. And also, like, because I think that that is.

[Whitney Cummings]

They have more than they need in their home. They're gonna need more than they need and everything. The guy that has, like, five different screwdrivers ever has five different girls in his DMs.

[Pat Regan]

Right.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I respect it so much, and now I'm entirely doing that. But the. The ongoing project in the home is what I'm attracted to do. The dude who has something half built and is coming back and working on it and doesn't care that it's. That's what I'm. So now I'm like, I just am embodying that, which has helped immensely.

[Whitney Cummings]

And this is the one thing that I think people are kind of like, because I do think, like, obsession with one. Most of my friends from high school, they got married at 20, truly.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

So they were. And then they get divorced at 28, and then they get married again for 10 years. It's like they're just in marriages.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And going from guy to guy, like, legally, instead of us, where we're, like, obsessing and with someone for four years and, like, not even getting the tax benefit of it. But, like, most men have this.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's just this New York LA thing where they, like, call another man to come help them do something that is truly, like, the most.

[Jordan Carlos]

The easiest, easiest thing.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, by the way, all you do is watch YouTube and you can't YouTube how to do the thing, like, what's happening, you know? So I think it's also a little bit that they're everywhere.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

They're just not where we are.

[Pat Regan]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

We literally are surrounded by men that tell jokes for a living for 20 minutes a night, and it's too hard for them.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

Totally. Totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

They have to. They're. They're. They have to. When they go on stage for 20 minutes, they have to lean against a wall.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

The sitting.

[Whitney Cummings]

They have to sit on.

[Jordan Carlos]

The sitting on the stool is crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

Take a load off. You know what?

[Jordan Carlos]

It's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

Take a load off. I know this 15 minutes. I know this 15 minutes of you talking about being friends with Bert Kreischer is. Stress is Stressful on you?

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Whitney Cummings]

We are around truly the weakest human beings. And if you don't think that. I believe Woody Allen honestly owes reparations to women. Like, honestly, like, I know black people first. Fine. But like you, the setting example that men should be, like, scared of everything and, like, weak and, like, like anxious all the time, and it's like, endearing.

[Jordan Carlos]

And cute, then that makes them intelligent.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, you're smarter than me because you're scared of lobsters. Like, yeah, what are we doing?

[Jordan Carlos]

Totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

You're scared of spiders. Well, if you were smart, you would know that spiders eat bugs, so spiders are good.

[Jordan Carlos]

My whole thing is I believe somebody's smart on accident, if they're super, if they're critical of everything.

[Whitney Cummings]

I love this game. What makes you think someone's smart?

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

When they're like, that's stupid. That's.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's so funny. It took me so long to realize, like. Like, why is it stupid? Explain it.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Negativity. I used to always think negativity and intelligence were same. Same.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, it's. That's like my ideal. That's if somebody's like, I. I hate that thing. I love, dude. I'll have basic friends who will be like, oh, I actually think, like, Italian food is awful. And I'm like, oh, you're moved up in my friend chart because you don't.

[Whitney Cummings]

Italian food in Italy is not as good as Italian food in America. It's just a fact.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, but that's a. That's. That's serving Americans, Italian food. You know what I mean?

[Whitney Cummings]

If you put sugar in something, it's.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's going to be better.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's true.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like in Italy, they don't scrape off the. The. The gray on the bottom of the fish. Like, I'm not eating the foreskin of your f. Like, I don't want my fish to taste like fish. Like, what do we. What are we. What are you trying to prove over here?

[Jordan Carlos]

It's like bodega food in Italy better than bodega food.

[Whitney Cummings]

Interesting.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, that's.

[Whitney Cummings]

What.

[Jordan Carlos]

I don't know that I've stopped going to Italian restaurants in Italy. And I just went to the bodega, cuz. The croissant with the cheese, the BLT on the croissant, way better than anything that's served at the restaurant. Because the restaurant is slop for Americans.

[Whitney Cummings]

For me, I think. I think someone's smart when they believe two things can be true at once.

[Jordan Carlos]

Oh, like.

[Whitney Cummings]

Some women mature faster than men, but not others. I still have girlfriends who are.

[Jordan Carlos]

No. I like a hard line. I like dogma.

[Whitney Cummings]

Nope.

[Jordan Carlos]

Straight dog.

[Whitney Cummings]

Didactic. Can't do it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

Someone's like, do girls mature faster than boys? Some do, some don't.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's. I will.

[Whitney Cummings]

I have girlfriends who are still at Coachella. It ended six months ago. It's. They're looking for their phone charges.

[Jordan Carlos]

I put people on a pedestal if they're in on something or out on something. If they're like, I'm going on.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because they're decisive, it's because they're decisive. Decisive, wrong, and strong is. Is not always, like, because you want to be domed. You want somebody to just go, no, it's not true.

[Jordan Carlos]

I want somebody to go, your brain's wrong. Mine is right. Follow me. And I go, thank you.

[Pat Regan]

Thank God.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure. Sure.

[Jordan Carlos]

His mind was just leading me right off a cliff.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think I figured out your thing. You're like reluctant Alpha.

[Jordan Carlos]

What's that?

[Whitney Cummings]

Reluctant out. Like you're an Alpha. The word Alpha. I know the Fine.

[Pat Regan]

I love it.

[Jordan Carlos]

Easy. For me, it's.

[Whitney Cummings]

But by the way, it's a tricky. It's a tricky word because, like, alpha doesn't mean, like, I'm, like, gonna yell at you and be strong. The Alpha sleeps.

[Jordan Carlos]

Right, Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

So you're like, reluctant Alpha. You're like, I'm the leader, but, like, I don't want to have to be.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's like, every leader at some point just has to go like. Like, oh, yeah, I wanted to follow someone, but, like, I don't. There's no one.

[Jordan Carlos]

I know. I wanted to follow somebody so bad.

[Pat Regan]

Me too.

[Whitney Cummings]

I always say I'm in the market for a cult. Like, I'm. Wait. I tried to get into Scientology. They said no.

[Jordan Carlos]

It's really annoying. It's also annoying to be the artist in my friend group of artists that.

[Whitney Cummings]

People pay money to watch. You commander. Like, you're already doing it.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's frustrating. With my other artist friends, I'm like, bro, why? How did you let me be the one with fans with a following? How am I the one doing this? That pisses me off.

[Whitney Cummings]

I know.

[Jordan Carlos]

You guys were supposed to do this.

[Whitney Cummings]

I am trying to stop talking to Jordan. It's not going great. This is my problem with you, man. I knew roll into I want to be friends with insult, and we're just being friends instead of, like, doing a podcast. So thank you for coming on. She has a new special right now on YouTube Everywhere. Netflix. Netflix, yeah. Netflix did you license it or do you own it or.

[Jordan Carlos]

No, I get it back in two years.

[Whitney Cummings]

You will see this on YouTube in two years.

[Jordan Carlos]

Go on Netflix.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, go on Netflix now, though.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah, go on Netflix right now.

[Jordan Carlos]

Take Me with you is what it's called.

[Whitney Cummings]

Where did you shoot your new special? Take Me with you and why did you choose that city?

[Jordan Carlos]

I did New York because I like New York audiences the best. I did the Gramercy Theater because it's a little dingy and intimate and I had a big set design that I liked there that matched there. They had like, I wanted exposed cables and I wanted to be. Look like a kind of up dungeon. And I like the staff there. But yeah, I shot in New York because I like their audiences the best. I get a little bit weird on west coast audiences.

[Whitney Cummings]

Howie Mandel ruined New York audiences for me.

[Pat Regan]

Why?

[Whitney Cummings]

Because he was like. He's like, the problem with New York is like, you go. You play like Carnegie hall, you play Gramercy Theater, and it's like your name is on the marquee and like, you sell it out.

[Pat Regan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

But like. Like 8 million people walk by and we're like, no, thanks.

[Jordan Carlos]

That's so funny. That's so funny.

[Whitney Cummings]

The number of people every day who saw that you were coming and did not want.

[Jordan Carlos]

I almost actually did do it in la, but there were the fires.

[Pat Regan]

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Carlos]

I was like, ew.

[Whitney Cummings]

LA's audience is edible's audience. There's like a delay.

[Jordan Carlos]

I don't like the delay. It's everywhere. West Coast. Yeah, yeah, I love they. It's a huge, great turnout. And the delay is. Is once the delay hits, they're great, but there is a delay and I get.

[Whitney Cummings]

They're in the audience, like, forgiving their ancestors and it's just like, everyone's on like, mushroom chocolate. It's, you know.

[Jordan Carlos]

Yeah, totally. There's not acknowledgment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did it in New York, which was sick. And the thing about New York is the.

[Pat Regan]

The.

[Jordan Carlos]

The people there are the. The special has really up things. There's entire chunks of it about how I want to my dad. And when I do that in a lot of cities there is. I have to convince them. And in New York, they're like, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Anyone that's resistant to it is. Why are you so resistant? Why don't you think she's joking? Yeah, how about that?

[Jordan Carlos]

And to give Netflix credit, I called and I was like, how do you guys feel about all the in my dad stuff? And they were like, that's our favorite part. And I was like, all right. That's right.

[Whitney Cummings]

They're like, we're doing a documentary where a woman trolls her own daughter online. We don't have time to talk to you.

[Pat Regan]

Okay.

[Jordan Carlos]

You could tell that the head of Netflix comedy was a little. I was like, oh, so you see me?

[Whitney Cummings]

Oh, yeah, I see you.

[Jordan Carlos]

And I was like, all right. Stream's a stream.

[Whitney Cummings]

Even if it's from child service. Yeah, I am these awkwardly. You know it. I love you. I'm about to also do her podcast, which hopefully will have a little more of a linear narrative. We'll see. Don't ride elephants. Goodbye.

[Commercial Voice]

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