Charlie Kirk Ruminations | Good For You Podcast with Whitney Cummings | EP 307

Summary

Good For You with Whitney Cummings

Episode: Charlie Kirk Ruminations (EP 307)

Recorded: September 2025

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking and freewheeling episode, comedian Whitney Cummings addresses the aftermath of the "Charlie Kirk situation." With her signature blend of wit and candor, Whitney dives into the cultural and political implications of Kirk's shocking fate, public reactions, and what she believes these say about the state of "the left," "the right," and society at large. The episode sees Whitney ruminate on outrage culture, hypocrisy, identity politics, and the challenges of honest conversation in an age of performative online moralism, all the while maintaining her comedic edge and commitment to intellectual curiosity.

This episode does not include an interview with Charlie Kirk, but rather discusses the public response to an incident involving him and uses the situation as a lens to analyze wider trends in discourse, tribalism, and American politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On the Charlie Kirk Situation & Reactions

• Whitney clarifies that this episode isn’t about Jimmy Kimmel (addressing that controversy will come next week) and instead focuses on the "Charlie Kirk situation."
• She observes a societal pattern: "We think everything is as bad as it can get, but we're usually just between cataclysmic nightmares." (06:00)
• Whitney critiques the public’s adrenaline addiction—highlighting how the rush of outrage and moral superiority online supplants more meaningful reflection.
• She calls out performative outrage: "We’re all addicted to feeling superior. You can’t feel superior without drama." (08:35)

2. Tribalism, Hypocrisy, and Public Discourse

• Whitney expresses frustration over how the left, especially online, engages in self-righteous condemnation and perfectionism, making constructive self-critique nearly impossible.
  • “The left just can’t admit it when things are weird or a bad idea. No one’s mad at you if you just admit it!” (25:15)
• The dangers of making everything about “teams”:
  • "Politics is like, if you don't agree with me, you shouldn't be alive. What are we doing? That's a politics thing. And I'm like, you didn't play sports." (33:23)
• On the ephemeral morality of internet tribalism:
  • “Your beliefs: we're all Gollum with our beliefs now. I've never had any loyalty to my beliefs... but now, beliefs are all we have. We're all Gollum with our ring of beliefs.” (72:10)

3. The Left and Right: A Critique from Both Sides

• Whitney is critical of both political sides, refusing to neatly identify with either:
  • “I don’t even know if I identify as being on the left anymore. I think both sides are weird for even thinking about sides.” (40:00)
• She notes that both sides engage in similar tactics:
  • “At this point, if you’re pro gay rights, you’re helping the Republicans: you’re making it safe for those right-wing Christian men to come out of the closet!” (51:44)
• Calls for genuine accountability rather than blame:
  • “I almost feel like that’s the problem. It’s about blame instead of about accountability. And that changed.” (33:56)

4. The Role of Public Debate & College Discourse

• Discusses Charlie Kirk’s college campus engagements, suggesting debate is meant for sparring and identity differentiation:
  • “The point in college is you're supposed to argue and figure out what you believe because your parents won't listen to you.” (63:55)
• She asserts that dialogue—even uncomfortable or combative—should not be equated with harm:
  • “I don’t believe that dialogue on a college campus is spreading hate or causing damage. I don’t.” (59:55)
• Expresses a key frustration:
  • “We're acting like when he [Kirk] went to these campuses, he was traumatizing these college kids. Like, come on.” (65:00)

5. Critique of Moral Posturing & The Need for Sincere Engagement

• Whitney expresses skepticism toward those who take performative moral stances online:
  • “We use caring about people we’ve never met to be very mean to the person right in front of us.” (30:35)
• She urges more humility and willingness to update beliefs:
  • “We are in a crisis of not being able to say, 'Huh, I don't know. I'd love to learn more about that.'” (73:10)
• On the importance of intention versus impact:
  • “There's a point where we have to separate intention and impact...I'm at the point where I can see someone and go, like, is this person doing all this with a benevolent motive, even if I agree with zero?” (67:00)

6. Media, Narrative, & Internet Distortion

• Whitney discusses how the internet and supercuts can distort or flatten someone's character:
  • “You could take five hours of footage and sell him [Charlie Kirk] to one person totally, then take polar opposite footage and sell it to another person.” (57:23)
  • “Is there a version of a supercut of Charlie Kirk talking to kids that would make me joyful that this happened? No. All of us are trying to figure out our thing.” (63:37)

7. The State of Political Parties & Need for Reform

• Whitney mocks the binary party system and the concept of “party” in politics:
  • “I'm in the Republican Party. I'm in the Democratic Party. You're not serious people.” (39:55)
• She advocates for more parties or at least new terms to describe the varied ideological positions Americans hold:
  • "Maybe we should call it the verbal left and the verbal right, because the ‘addicts on the internet’ are the ones setting the tone." (42:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On performative morality and internet outrage:
  “Everyone on social media who is self-righteous is so full of guilt that they're literally posting so the person they bullied goes, 'What's my bully up to?'" – Whitney (09:45)

• On the team mentality in politics:
  "Politics is like, if you don't agree with me, you shouldn't be alive. What are we doing? That's a politics thing. And I'm like, you didn't play sports." – Whitney (33:23)

• On her personal political identification:
  “I don’t even know if I identify as being on the left anymore. I disagree with both sides. I truly—thinking about sides is already weird.” – Whitney (40:00)

• On the left's challenge with accountability:
  “If anyone on the left was like, look, Kamala was not my first pick, but we go to...If you had some explanation, like, trust me, strategically, this is our thing. Not ideal. Right. Not my favorite thing. Maybe not the perfect thing.” – Whitney (25:25)

• On the futility of outrage at Kirk’s debates:
  "Who cares if a right wing dork tells a left wing 21 year old they should get married and have kids? Who cares?" – Whitney (61:40)

• On the importance of intention vs. impact:
  "There's a point where we have to separate intention and impact. And I...was always like, impact is all that matters...but right now things have degraded too much." – Whitney (67:00)

• On constant belief revision:
  "I've never had any loyalty to my beliefs. I'm always just like, why do I believe that? That's weird." – Whitney (72:10)

• On celebrating tragedy as team victory:
  "The people that were happy about this thing that happened, it validated a belief or something. It gave their team a point. It was cheering like their team scored a touchdown, which means you’ve reduced this to a game." – Whitney (74:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:09: Introduction and framing of the episode
• 05:14–11:50: Reflections on media outrage cycles and internet performance
• 13:28–17:52: Democrat Party critique, Kamala Harris & perfectionism in politics
• 22:48–24:50: Beto O’Rourke, apologies, and self-defeating perfectionism
• 29:12–33:23: On transparency, sports as a metaphor, and adversarial politics
• 39:05–44:39: The evolution of political parties, tribalism, and online radicals
• 51:44–54:46: Ironies and contradictions in left/right activism
• 59:55–65:00: Nature of public debate; college discourse; “harm” vs. dialogue
• 66:23–73:10: Intent vs. impact, pureness of motive, and humility in beliefs
• 74:15–End: Final reflections on identity, tribalism, and civic humility

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Tone & Language

Whitney’s tone throughout is irreverent, self-deprecating, skeptical, and confessional. The humor is sharp but never mean-spirited, rarely focused on individuals as such, but always on broader societal patterns and ironies. Her language is casual, relatable, and peppered with cultural references and asides, making her critique engaging and accessible, even as it delves into serious and often uncomfortable subject matter.

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Summary

Whitney Cummings takes her audience on a winding journey through the public response to Charlie Kirk’s fate, using it to interrogate online outrage, tribalism, and the decay of honest public conversation. She critiques both the left and right, laments the performative nature of political discourse, and urges a return to curiosity, humility, and directness—qualities she believes are missing in today's climate of identity-driven factionalism and online morality contests. Amidst the jokes and tangents, Whitney’s core message is a plea for sincerity, independent thinking, and a willingness to engage with ideas—and people—with respect and nuance.

Transcript

[A]

Here we go again. A selfie video. Opening the podcast because something wild happened after we shot this episode. The Jimmy Kimmel situation happened. So I'm not weighing in on Jimmy Kimmel yet, which I think is good. I'm gonna have a second to think about it and really, you know, laid and right. You know me. So this is more addressing the Charlie Kirk situation in general. And, you know, I hope you enjoy it. I hope it makes you think. And you know, I also next week want to talk about Tim Dillon being fired from the Saudi festival. So I'm in Virginia now. As you can see, that's the James River. We're about to go perform in Norfolk. So I will have a incisive, hilarious take on all the Kimmel new developments next week. Thank you always for sticking with me. You guys, the best. Love you. I'm coming to Richmond this weekend and Norfolk, Virginia. Then I'm gonna be in Baltimore and Toronto and Seattle and all the places. Come, you guys, it's just like the vibe is like, let's laugh. There's. It's. The jokes write themselves with what's going on in the world. And I'm gonna say it the only way I know how to say it. I know that everyone's done mentally and laughter isn't the best medicine. If you've decided to pull the plug and given the fact that that's the only sane option at this point, mentally, I will start promoting my shows the way I think that every self aware person in an existential crisis would and in the most relatable way I can. Even if you don't like comedy and don't want to see comedy, come, come to my shows. If for no other reason that you won't hear about politics for two hours. It's a safe place to not have to hear about politics. That's, that's, that's the, that is honestly the best. If I saw that on a poster, I'd be like, I'm. I guess, yes, I'll go to the Dallas game.

[B]

A hate watch is even better in person.

[A]

That is. So why don't we do that? I'm a hate. You made me realize that. That's what. You know, that I am so obsessed with going to see the Whitney Houston hologram in Vegas because it is so rad.

[B]

It's gonna drive you nuts.

[A]

Have you seen it? They haven't even tried to match the head to the body.

[B]

Oh, no, no, please. Floating head.

[A]

You know what I'm gonna start doing at shows? I'm gonna go, hey, Guys, I know you came here to see me tell jokes, but please, everyone pull up your phones. It's gonna be like church. Pull up your Bibles. Page 84, please. Everyone Google. Get on that. We'll get everyone on the WI fi. And I'm just going to make you Google certain things on your phone that you need to see. The people dancing around her are, like, having a manic episode that's like a version of hell.

[B]

But being a backup dancer for hologram.

[A]

This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. We all need to dabble with what hell might look like.

[B]

This is it.

[A]

I think that we're all like, what if I go to hell? Like, maybe it's more. It's weirder than we think.

[B]

It sounds like fun when you're walking in and then you realize this is never going to end and you're going to be a backup dancer for a hologram.

[A]

Why are you going to that? Except as a joke like that. Is that a. You go as a joke and they don't care. Tickets are tickets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or people like, I'm watching a ghost.

[B]

I'm guessing they're free. They're free tickets.

[A]

That's.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

But why then? Why. Oh, but you don't have to pay the talent. So. So basically, here's what's happening. Celebrities have become are. Maybe they always were. I don't know. There's no way to prove it, but like, such monsters, such big baby king baby monsters that they're like, you know, we don't need you. They said that to us. We don't need you. We don't need you for. I'm not going to pay for your. Whatever. Drip. Backstage drip. And you being late. I mean, with Mariah Carey, Truly, like, sitting on a couch for her show. Remember who? 50 Cent, one of my favorite people on the planet. Just kind of not. I mean, Truly not looking like he's in a rehearsal. Barely. Justin Timberlake making the crowd sing his songs. They're like, guys, you know, we don't. Fine. We will just get my nephew to put a Snapchat filter on Woody from Toy Story. And I'll get Trudeau's guy. Yes. And that we don't, you know, watch. People will go see anything.

[B]

Yeah. And if they're not paying Whitney Houston, they can afford to give the tickets away for free as long as you buy a drink or something.

[A]

And then they can launder money through the, you know, under the. In the tunnels.

[B]

I don't think anybody's buying a ticket.

[A]

To the Whitney, because then what? I love a fake business. Whitney Houston hologram. I got like, this is my. Like, you know how people are obsessed with how the pyramids are real. This is my Pyramids of Giza.

[B]

But you know, how they built this. There's no mystery really how the hologram was made. First of all, it's a silly lighting trick.

[A]

It's like a show. Like, the whole show.

[B]

Oh, the whole show.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, the hologram was obviously made with magic. Duh. Anyway, well, I'm glad we got to do that little. Like, that was. Thank you. Thank you. I needed that. I needed that last week's episode. If you watch and listen. Thank you. I know it's probably weird to. To have everything going on with the Charlie Kirk situation. I was like, hey, guys. So, like, what's with the Phillies game? We do sometimes have to shoot these a little bit in advance because I go on tour and. But that's okay. I think some people were probably ready to maybe not think about it anymore and listen to that episode. But now that everyone's done thinking about it, I'm ready to dig in. Here's my thing. I like to be late, but correct instead of on time and full of regrets.

[B]

Second mouse gets the cheese.

[A]

Late and correct instead of on time, full of regret. That's was well done, frankly. Eminem, you can have it. Now, as you all know, a horrific tragedy happened last week. You obviously know what I'm talking about. Megan Markle's show had a season two, and we're gonna.

[B]

We'll rebuild.

[A]

I can't wait to watch her make sorbetto with orchids and make dreamcatchers out of human hair. Can't wait for that documentary. So I did not get to address the Charlie Kirk situation last week, mostly because no one wants me to. So last week, when we were talking about the boys that didn't get to have their ball and their hat, I was like, who cares? Who cares? Who cares? It doesn't matter. But we have this problem where we. We think everything is as worse as it can get because we. We think it's not going to get worse. Do you know what I'm saying? We, last week were like, it's the end of the world. This boy didn't get his baseball. Okay? And no one was focused on the real end of the world issue, which is that when a child was being filmed and started crying, someone zoomed in and held. It went, this is cinema. I'm on the edge of My seat. Zoom in. What if he cries? Then he'll be all wet. Like, just cut. Cut the roll. Soon as a child starts crying, cut. We're out. Cut away. You know what to do. Stop filming. So what happened with Charlie Kirk? It was, it was the meteor hit. I feel like we all kind of, you know, people that come from, like, trauma. Trauma. Like, we knew a meteor was coming, we didn't know how. And that's why people that truly come from chaos and trauma and big curveballs don't care about literal curveballs. We don't care about basic. We're like, let's enjoy this while we can because the meteor is coming. Finally, humans last week got some context to what actual horror looks like. And I think that I sometimes seem callous because I always know that at any time as a society, we're focused on something like, petty, which, when we're focused on something petty, it just means we're in between cataclysmic nightmares that you will forever see on your eyelids every time you close your eyes. And we don't realize that we're in the calm before the storm. But also, I think that we're also addicted to adrenaline now that we can't even let things be calm. Like, people don't even build porches on new houses. New houses don't have porches. The place where you go be calm and just watch cars. They don't even. They're like, people don't do this anymore. Like, we're all just such adrenaline and cortisol addicts. I'm realizing the newest drug is feeling superior. And you can't feel superior if there's not some kind of, like, drama happening. Right? So they have to pretend to be outraged and instead of just apologizing for being a bully in high school, just reach out, reach out to the person you bullied. New theory. Everyone on social media who is self righteous is so full of guilt that they, they're literally posting. So the person they bullied goes, what's my bully up to? You know how, like, once a month they're like, what's my bully up to? Just me. And you see their page and they're like, the border, the kids, the baseball. The kid didn't get the baseball. And they think you're gonna be like, oh, maybe I was annoying. Wait, maybe I was a brace face. Wait, maybe I deserved all those wedgies because I studied for all those tests, which is so lame. I, and most people assume someone is moral until you tell me you're moral. The Charlie Kirk thing. This was the moment that we all went, oh, the people that pretend to be nice aren't nice. You know how people are. Fake outrage. Now you're fake being surprised. Surprised. Don't be fake surprised either, because that's a way to be self righteous. Also, like, I can't believe these people would be exactly who they were gonna be. And you know that. That's why you did. You know what I mean? Let's. The fake surprise is another little, like, way to get outrage. People who have been ostensibly compassionate people that we all had a feeling were secretly whack. This moment proved them right. I said what I said on Twitter about it. Pat can put up the tweets. And I just feel like we have so many ways to comment on things and I feel like it's. Sometimes it's better to say the least amount. I said what I wanted to say about it, and it mostly went over well. I did delete one tweet. And Pat, maybe you can tell me why this, like, was polarizing. It was when people were celebrating. And I guess for me, I always go to, like, try to get into the mind of the psychopath, right? Of like, this person could have done this privately. It got screen grabbed. It got. I still probably couldn't even tell you why threads. And now people think I'm funded by Israel, which I am. Which I am does sometimes get in the way of me being a Russian asset, but we make it work. Like, I'll be like, Russia, I just. Israel's funding me. So, like, I can't. I. If I'm gonna be an asset, what.

[B]

Am I gonna do with all these Old Testament jokes?

[A]

Hold on. I can't talk. Israel's calling. But, like, I'm an asset to you. I promise. Like, I just. I'm a double hyphenate. Fund Israel, Russian asset, get free Blue Chew. I am a triple threat, you guys. Another reason I took it down, if people like, because when you take a tweet down, everyone's like, why? We knew it. And then I was like, no, I kind of was just like it. Any. Talking any more about it felt like capitalizing on it. Also when you say, like, this guy was obviously a pro and people start going, funded by. And I'm like, okay, that's. I'm in over my head on this. But I was just thinking out loud on Twitter, which is just like, not. Do not think and go on Twitter. Anyway, the point is, you know, I'm the first person to say, like, don't weigh in on Something if you don't need to, or, you know, if it's not your wheelhouse. But I did weigh in because there's this narrative that after I had a kid, I, like, became less liberal, and there's these rumors that were spread by me on cnn. I made fun of the Democrats losing the election because I don't even think the Democrats lost the election. I think in order to lose something, you have to, like, try. To me, it felt like, you know, the guy from MASH that would wear the dress, like, to try to get sent home. It felt like they were like, we need a year off. We're just going to take a breather and regroup. Do you know what I mean? Like, it felt like we're just too divided right now, and we're split between people that get their focus group information from the Internet and then Pew and, like, it just was like. Like, maybe it's because, like, the youngest people in the Democratic Party were too young and the oldest people were too old, and they just couldn't. I don't. I. I don't.

[B]

You just quit doing primaries, and it's probably not going to come back. Like, there's not really going to be a debate season before elections anymore.

[A]

The vibe was like, if you don't vote for her, you're racist. And everyone's like, no, we're not racist. We're sexist. The woman that we haven't seen for three years, who's the vice president, who's kind of supposed to be living there, like, supposed to be living there. Haven't seen her. Now she's going to be the candidate for president, and she dated Montel Williams. And somehow the White House, the United States, FBI, and the CIA all couldn't figure out how to delete that from the Internet. The Epstein list existed. It was real. Now it's just didn't exist. Gone. Minutes were taken out of the video from the prison. I mean, truly, the Epstein list has not only been scrubbed from the Internet, it's been scrubbed from our consciousness. I forgot they deleted our hippocampus somehow. I don't know how.

[B]

Pee tape gone six days ago. As of taping this on, coincidentally, September 10th, I'm just reading off the senate.gov website, vote number 512, the nerd alert Statement of purpose to direct the Attorney General to make publicly available documents related to Jeffrey Epstein.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

That's the day and time that they were voting on that. The same day that Charlie Kirk was shot, Pat. And now nobody's talking about that.

[A]

They Voted on Epstein to keep it private. To keep the list private, the Senate.

[B]

Voted to direct the attorney General to make publicly available documents related to Jeffrey Epstein. And the yays were 51 and the nays were 49. And that happened on that same day. Interesting, for sure.

[A]

Interesting that you don't believe in coincidences, you negative bum. If there was not a meeting about the Montel Williams, Kamala Harris photos and their past relationship. We don't. We don't have a government. They don't. You guys don't care. It's fine if you don't care. Just say you don't care. It's like, don't put me through this rigmarole. Like, you understand, okay, it matters who future female presidents date. It matters. If you're running for president as a woman, it matters. We have to go, okay, who have you dated? We gotta talk about it. Because men. It doesn't matter who they dated because you can pay women off. They get it. They're like, this might. Honestly, this might be the best way to have any kind of chance in owning property. I. What? Like, thank God this finally is not a nightmare anymore. I can get the therapy I deserve. Get paid. You can't pay off men. Men won't settle. Men would rather die of starvation in their cars than see a woman on TV at a bar and not be able to say, I hit that. They won't. No amount of money will. Will be worth them not being able to say that. Okay, in 2025. He did address it last year that he addressed it because people were talking about it so much and nobody would address it. And do you know what he said? He said it was no big deal.

[B]

We thought you were going to start a podcast.

[A]

You couldn't even give him some money to say, like, you know, I. The time I spent with her was a long time ago. She was great. And she did work at McDonald's. I met her when she worked at McDonald's. And when she, like, can you.

[B]

I mean, it would be weird if he said it was a big deal, but it's kind of insulting for him.

[A]

To say, like, it was no big deal. Oh, you got. If you had just addressed it, you wouldn't have had to get a comment from him. And that comment is brutal. You know, guys, that I know everything when it comes to animals. Let's just be honest. I find myself saying no to a lot of these brought to you by this dog food brand. That is a scam. But I said yes to this one because it's real. This is a game changer. Ruff Greens is a company I actually talked to. I had a big zoom with them all, you know that I actually talked to the. Our sponsors.

[B]

You were onboarded.

[A]

No, I onboarded. That's exactly what I. I show up to the onboarding calls and I'm like, are you a real company? Show me. No fake back. I want to see your house. Where are you? Why are you all working from home? Is this a real. Are you at a wework? I need to know this is a real company. Ruff Greens. I'm obsessed with it. It's not a dog food. It is a live nutritional supplement that you add to your dog's regular food. Traditional kibble is shelf stable for years because it's lifeless. It's just burnt garbage. Rough greens brings the nutrition back. It's packed with live vitamins, minerals, probiotics, digestive enzymes, omega oils. It helps with nutrient absorption, supports joint and muscle health, strengthens immune system and promotes long term vitality. Right now Ruff Greens is offering a free Jumpstart trial bag. You just cover the shipping use discount code Whitney. That's this [e-mail]. rough Greens. R u f-f g r e n s.com promo code Whitney. I don't just recommend rough greens. 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After you buy it, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Make sure to support our show. Please tell them that we sent you. This is the thing the left does, they pick someone apart with perfectionism and then they're fine with Marianne Williamson running for president and you're like, wait, what is it? What, What's. I don't get the rule. It's because she's famous. You, you think, you know she's famous in the, like, self help kit. So you think anyone who is religious is dumb, but she's basically Jesus. Shetty. She's a religious self help person. She's all about God. So why. So you're dumb if you're religious, but if you know famous people, we're fine with it. Like, it doesn't add up. She's an inspirational speaker for Hollywood, like celebrities that, I mean, look, I know the president has to be a con artist, but this feels a little far. Like, this is like she does books about how to make you love yourself. Like, if you have millions of dollars and you don't love yourself by now, I believe you are unlovable. Like, that's what she. She should go to celebrities house and be like, you're not lovable. Look, I've been mad at the Democrats since they got mad at Beto o' Rourke for thanking his wife. He made a. Remember Beto o'? Rourke? He. And I don't know what he's up to. I don't. I. Beto o' Rourke made some bad jokes, but who hasn't? I made some bad jokes and I still get to live here on a compound near Scott Baio. I See the guy from Castle at Starbucks once a month. And I've made some bad jokes. Beto o'. Rourke. Okay, so I did look it up. Cause I am thematically just trying to. I'm talking about the perfectionism and the self righteous indignation that is coming from the left and how it has affected the way that they've selected candidates. And I promise there's gonna be a point to all this. Beto o', Rourke, he said, I'm just saying this verbatim. He apologized for joking at several events back when he was campaigning in Iowa. He said that his wife had been raising the children. And he went, sometimes with my help.

[B]

He's on the road a lot, by the way.

[A]

He's probably never with his help, honestly. Get it. It's a lie if nothing else, which means he even more qualified to be the president. So they have three children. Sometimes with my help. You know what? Chances are she's like, I'm good. I got it. It's probably annoying when he does try to help, but everyone's like, he doesn't help with the kids. Do you want someone running for office near children ever? Even their own?

[B]

He's giving thoughts and prayers to his kids.

[A]

I'm just saying. What? Hold on. So do you think it's healthy for a politician's kids to be around them ever? This is. Anyway. But the point is it wasn't. Fine. It was a bad joke. It wasn't funny. Was he disrespecting his wife? I don't. I don't know. I'm sure she's thrilled he's on the road. She's like, yeah, no, go to Iowa again. Like, please, they need you. Then he apologized again because he got a bunch of heat. Cuz he. As a teenager, he was a member of a group of activist hackers. And there was a writing he wrote something called Psychedelic Warlord and included a piece of fiction from a killer's point of view. Cool. Was that a reason to basically say Beto o' Rourke should never, shouldn't keep running. That those two things are why Beto o', Rourke, who seemed to unify both sides, was able to kind of talk to both sides. Everyone I knew was like, okay, this guy, like seems reasonable and he can like jump on a table and start talking about anything seemingly really, Elliot. This doesn't seem like a sham person.

[B]

Even if he was supposed to double down on that joke, because that was the turning point for the country was you can mess up and stay if you promise to mess up every Single day from.

[A]

Or if you promise not to apologize for messing up, I. E. Trump saying, you said Rosie o' Donnell was fat. He's like, she's fat. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Correct. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I got another one.

[A]

Exactly. So he apologized. Maybe that was. Maybe he's too apologetic to be a politician. Maybe it's that. Maybe that's his flawed. Not the fact that the entire party, you know, tried, but it was just this perfectionism of, like, you made a joke about your womp, like, about the. Like, apologize. Like, it was this timer, and as if the apology would ever be good enough. When you force them to apologize and they do and you're like. Then you lose respect for them. Like, you're weak. It's like, well, you actually caved to me. Members of the left are not allowed to challenge anything that is going on in the party. It is just so weird to me. Like, there's so much hypocrisy on both sides, but I don't understand why the left cannot just admit it. No one's mad at you if you just admit it. If anyone on the left was like, look, Kamala was not my first pick, but we go to. If you had some explanation, like, trust me, strategically, this is our thing. Not idea. Not ideal. Right. Not my favorite thing. Maybe not the perfect thing. Okay. But this will be the smoothest transition. We're gonna beef her up with a great vp. Cut to Tim and square. The China thing wasn't weird until no one could talk about it. That's when it gets weird. I'll bring it up. Say, yeah, I did this and I read it, I'd be like, oh, good. Thank you. Moving on. But if it's like, hey, what was that thing? I'm dangerous. I'm causing danger. Like, that's when it's like, if you went to China 14 times, that's what you lead with in every converse. That's your thing. Like, that's your thing. You know, I mean, I have horses. That's my thing. In the amount of time you told me, it's problematic to ask, I'm not allowed to say anything. You could have just answered the question. You could have just, like, answered my question. Yeah, you're so smart. But you don't get to be so smart and then not let other people be dumb, which is like, if you're. If you're the smartest person ever because you're on the left, you know, and I'm this person that's an idiot. You have to move through the world knowing you're gonna have to answer some questions because you're the smartest person alive. So how about instead of telling me that I'm, like, problematic and starting a dialogue that is dangerous, that it'd be weird for a grown man to go to China every 20 minutes, just give me the answer and I'll go, oh, yeah, I took. I know. Oh, he went and he taught English and he did this. That's so cool. I'd be like, that's so cool. I was the kid in school. I was like, I don't get it. What was that? And as soon as the teacher started getting annoyed, it was like, oh, he doesn't know the answer. That's all. When we were growing up, there was always some teacher in school who was like. And I was just in Portugal looking for the big wave. And you're like, every summer this guy goes to Portugal. It's the same. Why? Because my mind. Just tell me why. You saw Big Trouble Little China as a kid. You loved it. You wanted to go.

[B]

What if he said that's why he was going to China?

[A]

Then I'd be like, dude, let's switch. You are the president, dude. You have my vote. I will campaign for you. Little flying ball. Kurt Russell at his finest. Like, just say that and I'll go like, oh, I get it. When you're like, we don't discuss this ever. Like, what? What's up? I'm. It's like telling someone, a kid, not to do something. They're like, I gotta go try it. Just to see why I'm not allowed to do it. You know, you guys, the left is just dismissing basic human nature of curiosity. If you're running to be the most powerful person in the world, people are allowed to know things, right? And this is why the right succeed so much. Because Trump, like, he has no secrets. He's like, or he'll just lie to your face and just keep lying. You're like, well, I know he's lying. But this thing of, like, I'm going to pretend no one's wondering is like, like, I'm going to pretend I didn't hear you. It's like. It's like, you know, no one wants to be the person who, you know, when you run into someone in public and they pretend they didn't see you, and you're like, now I have to have seen this. Now I've seen you pretend to not see me, and you want. I'm. And you want me to not tell anyone. You just did that. Now you gave me A secret that I don't want cursed. Yeah. And now I'm like. It's like, if something's locked, you're like, what's in there? What's in there?

[B]

Unlock it.

[A]

Unlock it. I can't. I'm just gonna keep crowbar. I. I'm sure it's just like, nothing, no big deal. But it's like, don't go. You gotta just tell us. You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, on the Republican side, they just look at you and go, don't be an idiot.

[A]

But in that last election, they went, you're not allowed to comment on Montel Williams, and you're not allowed to comment on Tim Wallace going to China. You can't. And by the way, I don't even think the left was behind them, because had you truly been behind them, you would have made that stuff go away. It wouldn't have been on the Internet at all. Or just go, that's Photoshopped. And I'd be like, that makes so much more sense. You're right at the time where you can say something's AI and you didn't even do that. I've lost friends over this exact issue. And frankly, I'm better for it. But the point is, everything that's going on with the reaction of Charlie, it's not just this horrible thing happened in this person lost their. It's also like, a lot of people knew it. And then when you celebrated it, we were like. We knew you weren't nice. You know, so there's this extra layer of like, we knew that this was like a rigmarole. So even if people aren't going right, they're anti the current left because that felt fishy. And you were asking way too much of us by saying, but we're good people, and you don't get to question us. And we're like, I don't know, like, dude, if Tim Walsh went to sit down with Andrew Schultz, I don't care. And let him ask you, like, so what's your miles program like? Truly, if you've been to China that many times on a teacher salary, what is your miles program? How do you afford to go to China this many times? Post a selfie with a pangolin? Why? Why haven't we seen a pangolin? Why haven't have your kids seen a pangolin? If you've gone to China and your kids don't have pangolins in their house? Like, I'm just. What is I. Why am I weird for asking about the life of the person who Might lead the free world. I am so sick of everybody talking about everything except the thing they need to talk about and then thinking that everyone else is buying it. The arrogance of just going, we're going to win because, like, we're good people and we're moral and we care. We care about people we've never met. We use that to be very mean to the person right in front of us, but we care about people. I don't like, and maybe it comes from growing up in a. In a very chaotic home. I don't like when someone has a weakness and won't acknowledge it, because that's dangerous. If you go like, hey, I can't do this one thing, it's like, oh, good to know this person will do it. But if you're like, we got this. We've. If they had just gone, hey, guys, we're not. This isn't our. This year. We're the Browns. I don't know what to tell you. This year, if we're winning, we're winning not on talent. We're winning on heart and grit. Okay, that's just it. But instead, the Democratic Party, it's become, like, guys in LA who are 55 and aren't married. It's like, no one's good enough for you. No one. Nobody. You've had, like, 30. Like, no one. And the left is like, yeah, no one's good. No one's a good enough candidate for us. Like, truly nobody. It's like people that go scuba diving. Nothing. Nothing up here is good enough for you. Gotta go. Okay, great. We are so different, me and you. And I do think it's because a lot of people on the left didn't play sports, and it's showing. That's another thing. I don't divide people left and right. I divide people. Did you play sports or did you not play sports? Because if you see someone, you know, the fact that we saw that Lions game, or who was the player, Maurice, I can't remember his last name, who got hurt, and they stopped the game, and they were all holding hands together, and I was like, why in the NFL are they showing sort of a classy human response? There was like, right now, this person's not my adversary. They're like a fellow human being. And they all stood and were basically, like, giving a moment of silence to this player who was being carried off the field, who was not going to.

[B]

Die, but if he got up and he was okay, I'm going to try to hurt him again.

[A]

To see that, to wish the best for your adversary. You know, that's a sports thing, I think, in a lot of ways, you know, and politics is like, no, if you don't agree with me, like, you. You should not be alive. Was like, a what? Like, what. What are we doing? That's a politics thing. And I'm like, you didn't play sport. Like, I'm just trying to figure out this reaction and when people were happy about this, you know, and it's mental illness, too. Yes. But when you're on a team or side, if you truly want them to win, you're hard on them. You're hard on your team. So Democrats, the left should be the hardest on Democrats, on the left, you're so obsessed with the right and, like, you know, tough love, constructive criticism. I don't know what you. Dude, at game night, I will scream at the love of my life if he doesn't know the capital of South Dakota. If you don't know that in Risk, you need to get Australia, like, it's done, dude. Like, you have to be the hardest on. The people you love the most are the people that you're on the team with. You know what I mean? So why couldn't we go, hey, Marianne Williamson, how about you? I don't know, be the secretary of Scientology? You're not. This is not a good idea. But to watch grown adults, like, if you brought up, like, oh, the election. Kamala's running, they're like, put your phone in airplane mode. Okay, look. And they're, like, hunching over, whispering, like, is this a good idea? I'm like, what is? Why? What's happening? We're like, at the park. What are you scared of? I don't like when people are scared to say something, even if it's stupid. You can be on the left and criticize the left. You can be on the right and criticize the right. You should. I almost feel like that's the problem. It's about blame instead of about accountability. And that changed. Like, I feel like the left used to be like, this is wrong. I need to change this about myself. We need to help other people because I have an advantage. And we, like. It felt like more about accountability and about being conscious, you know? And that's what sold me on the left. It was like, you know, things are broken. We have to fix it, even if it doesn't affect us. You know what I'm saying? It was like that, to me, was the difference between the left and the right. The left was like, we try to help People, even if we have never met them. Whereas the right was like, nope, just me and my inside my gate is all that matters. Like, that's what I thought it was when I was, you know, maybe I was naive, whatever. But to me, like, it's also wild that the left whole thing is we're the smartest people in the room because there is so much like science is one time. I believe in science. Here we are proof of what power does to the brain. Like, even the most moral, good hearted, benevolent leader can get some power and truly start, like, installing cameras in office toilets. Like, the sound of freedom, guys. Like, I'm gonna save kids, but. But two months later, he's like, if you shower for me, I'll save even more. To his own, like, employees, like, power makes people lose their mind. Jerry Jones won't pay his cheerleaders. Okay, I was the secretary for an Al Anon meeting, which means I read the 12 steps and out loud for three meetings in a row. And I started parking in the handicap spot. You're just like, well, I gotta get here because I gotta read the. I gotta. Excuse me.

[B]

Entitled to that spot, but only for.

[A]

A couple weeks did I park in the handicap spot. Because by the fifth week, I just texted a newcomer, hey, can you come pick me up? I can't. You expect me to drive to go read this?

[B]

They started rounding up handicapped people to come to the meetings.

[A]

Yeah, I'm the.

[B]

To make you feel bad.

[A]

I invented mental health. How about come get me? And then I snapped in his face. You know how pilots will just, like, make jokes over the loudspeaker? You're like, you used to be a co pilot. Now you're making jokes. Literally, there's a pilot on my. The pilot of my flight who was like, anyway, so here we're off to Cincinnati. And everyone was like, what? He's like, just kidding. We're going to New York. Everyone was like, huh? I was like, why would you do that to people? He was like, just kidding. Never say just kidding if you're flying a plane. Thanks. Power impairs your brain. Southwest flight attendants wear shorts. That's an abuse of power. I don't know what is. I'm looking at people's feet. I look to flight attendants to be like, I'm going to see no knee. It's my break from other people's knees and calves. And here we are. Okay, A little power corrupts. It needs to be. It makes people delusional. I'm not defending the left, but when I look at this. When I see people go, like, be positive about this. I'm like, oh, you think because you're like fake moral or. The left has been.

[B]

Left was in power, you know, before, well, the 90s. So growing up, before social media, all the cool stuff was on the left.

[A]

No, that's right.

[B]

The best bands, funniest comics.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

The best movie were the movies. The best actors.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

All. All the best. Prominent loud voices steering the ship. And they were finding community with these pillars that were leading them around. But now that everybody is throwing rocks at each other all day long, nobody's allowed to be in charge. Being in charge means you're the bad guy. So there no prominent loud voices are being put in place to steer that side of the ship.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

The Republican side is willing to allow anybody who's determined enough to steer the ship, steer the ship. And on the left, anybody who gets any amount of power is now oppressing them because they have some power in.

[A]

Its whole thing was anti oppression. The whole thing was we rescue people. We rescue people, and then we watch someone, you know, this horrible thing happen. And then some people on the left are cheering, which, by the way, I do have to say it's not everyone on the left and it's not everyone. You know what I mean? It's always not everyone. Like, for this narrative to be like everyone on the. Not that I even know if I identify as being on the left anymore. Cause I don't even know. I don't know. I disagree with both sides. I truly. I think both sides, first of all, are weird for even thinking about sides. Like, that's already weird. I'm. I'm always like, you know, with the Karen baseball thing, everyone's like, this is bad. This is bad for this kid. I'm like, take it down. Take the video down. Why is a video of a kid going around so this is the rest of his life? You're both. All the sides are wrong for being okay with this kid getting famous out of nowhere.

[B]

You'd rather have a girlfriend when he's 15 than that ball.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So I know I'm always like, in this other maybe like perfect world thing, but, like, just the fact that either of you take yourself serious. Like, I'm in the Republican Party. I'm in the Democratic Party. You're not serious people. I know that. I'm not even trying to make a dad joke party. You call it a party. These are people that need. That didn't get Invited to party so much they had to make their political. Like, it's a party. Like, this is what you called it, a party still. Why has no one changed that? You still call it a party. The first sign of people in charge being delusional and not focusing is they see a word and forget what it means. When we see something labeled the way it's labeled, and we go, it's like, isn't that weird that they call it a party? They're not kidding. We are like, oh, this must be, like, what it was called back in the, you know, olden times. But to them, they're like, that's how they get joy. Controlling people. We go to parties to, like, let loose and, like, dance. Their party is controlling people, manipulating people, doing all this stuff. Like, they're enjoying this. Okay? It's like sometimes when someone tells you they are with the label, it's right there in front of you, but you just missed it. For doctors call it a practice. It's not the championships. They're like, we're practicing. We don't know. So when we do, this is on our door. So you can't sue us.

[B]

I mean, whoever's doing faces these days, they won. They figured it out.

[A]

You're called a patient because you're going to sit there for 40 minutes. Okay? They're like, we don't care about your time. We don't have time for you. And we want you to know that you're going to need to be patient when people go to like. And he didn't get me in. What? You're confused while you're called a patient and then you were required to be that thing they're telling us. I'm just saying, I don't think it was such a hot take that I implied that it was weird that the DNC was like, if you don't vote for our candidate, who you've truly not seen since the inauguration, who was supposed to live in the White House, you haven't even seen her, like, by accident. The current vice president, which, by the way, we haven't even seen, like, a fake trip. There's usually, like, a fake, like, I'm going to. Kids should read Initiative. Like, there's usually some vice president that, like, has a thing. Kamala was truly nowhere to be found. I mean, Biden was on TV every day, and he was also nowhere to be found. But, like, I just. I'm curious why it was weird of me to make fun of the Democrats when it's like, oh, haven't seen Kamala in four years. Oh, what's this about? And people are like, you're, you're red pilled. I'm like, no, I'm just. Why is the presidential nominee at the People's Choice Awards? Like, I'm just curious as part of the campaign. I mean, honestly, it might be a stronger democracy at this point. I actually trust the people's choice of word voting system. But I also think we need new terms. I'm going to start saying this. I maybe should have said this earlier. I don't think it's the left and the right. I think it's like the verbal left and the verbal right because we're like everybody's thing. It's like, no, these are just like addicts on the Internet. But they still do have an impact. And sometimes, you know, we meet them because like, the left is like, whatever. Like, you know, we probably just never meet them because they're not out there trying to show everyone how good of a person they are. Right. But like, the verbal left is my body, my choice. But you can't choose the jokes. You tell your body, your choice, but you can't choose who you cast in a TV show. Everyone has to be in a wheelchair. You don't. Your body, your choice. But you do not get to put your body inside Joe Rogan Studio or do anything Sabrina Carpenter's doing with her body. Like, you know, it's like I guess you would call the extreme left. And I think we're kind of like, there is a moderate, normal left maybe and a moderate more normal right. But we don't hear from them. I don't know what the solute.

[B]

It's weird that there's two parties.

[A]

It's so weird.

[B]

Like nobody gives a shit. But in Holland there's like 19 political parties.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it makes sense.

[A]

Mm. Is it just Cause we're such a young country that we haven't gone through this thing yet.

[B]

Well, it's just so efficient to control the whole thing if there's two sides.

[A]

And by the way, most people I know since I voted are like picking the least worst. They're not like, I'm gonna go vote for this person. You know, I feel like Obama maybe felt like that a little bit, but I was like, you know, younger and I'm sure that all my friends were that like, you know, I mean, I'm.

[B]

Sure there's a ton of people that do not want to be a part of any of that that are never gonna go to the right.

[A]

But I'm also not Defending either of these. But, like, to be able to just post and be like, I'm leftist. And like, it's like, I think that the DNC and the RNC have to do something which is like, before you're able to say you're there, they have to like, approve the tweet because their people are out there representing your side that are like the sickest, craziest people you know, which was like, not something that would have been a problem necessarily. Maybe before the Internet, at least on this scale, I don't know. But the point is, calling out the left doesn't make you right wing. Calling out the right if you're on the right doesn't make you left wing. Right, it could make you smart. Left. Who believes that a sentence that comes out of their mouth should make sense and that just because someone else thinks they're smart doesn't mean they are smart. Like, the left has become the people whose dog is jumping on you. And they're like, he's just friendly. And you're like, but no, but no thanks. Why? I'm. I'm actually bleeding. He's just friendly. He's just friendly. So I was at this thing the other night with Thomas Lennon and we were. I don't think he'll be mad at me for saying this. And we were at this thing and we were talking about how bad, like, you know, when you. The thing that has nicotine, that's smoky thing, how emotional it is. He's like, I wish I could just step outside and like, have some of that inhaled nicotine. I'm like, oh, it's not just about. It's about the routine. You know, it's like, go out and no one talks to you if you have it or when you're talking to people. It just makes it easier for weirdos. And you're like, oh, this is part of the reason it's so hard to quit. Because it's not just about the chemical addiction. It's about these other sort of rituals. And anyway, it's impossible to quit for that reason because, like, I'd have to change my whole personality and all of a sudden be able to be comfortable with eye contact. And that's hard. But along came this amazing product, Quit With Jones. They understand it's not about just giving things up. It's about building healthier habits that actually stick. Jones offers discreet, great tasting nicotine mints. So instead of stepping outside, you're just going to pop a mint. Fresh breath, no disruption, and you still feel like you're part of the crew. You're not a loser. Pair that with their free behavioral support app. You're going to play quittle. It's a one minute game scientifically proven to distract from cravings or connect with thousands of others quitting alongside of you. A dating app. I mean, that's not what this is. But I would turn it into a dating app for other people that are quitting. This is like very genius. Science shows that this combo can boost quit rates by up to 60%. It's simple. You're going to take the Jones quiz. Then you're going to use mints. When cravings hit, you're going to track your progress in the app. Build streaks with daily support, no guilt trips. Smart, supportive tools to help you quit on your terms. The mints contain a Nagata, which is an addictive chemical. Jones is FDA approved and available for ages 18 and older. If you're ready to take the step towards quitting and even cutting back, Visit Quit with Jones.com Whitney. Take the free quiz. Get $10 off your personalized journey. That's Quit with Jones.com. did I say nicotine before that?

[B]

Slash Whitney.

[A]

Slash Whitney. Your journey starts now. I know this episode has had some pretty serious themes in it. Okay. But you know what makes all this, this nightmare we all live in a little less horrific looking like so cute.

[B]

Fashion.

[A]

Fashion. And I've been a fashion icon for a while now. You. Reluctantly, so, reluctantly so.

[B]

They won't let me leave.

[A]

They won't let me leave. And also, like, I just. I don't. I didn't. I am such a fashion icon that it wasn't even my idea. I was trying so hard to not be one. That that's why I became one. Why is everything have a horse on it now all of a sudden? You guys don't get to appropriate my declining mental health. Firstly. Secondly, it has made me decide. You know what? I don't even want to shop at gas stations anymore because now you guys are doing it.

[B]

Are they imitating me or mocking me?

[A]

They can't tell. That's like you just broke something open in my brain. The point is, I look at revolve. I want everything. This is good news. This is bad news. But mostly good news because I have decided that I'm an adult now. And look at me today. Look at me. I've got buttons, I've got pockets that I'm not even going to use. They're for decoration only. Like, I have the right color bra under this sort of like diaphanous Lace number. I'm an adult now, you guys. And I will currently be dressing as someone who will be fighting for custody of their child in 10 years. So you better get ready for some peplum, some puffy sleeves, someone who looks like. I'm kidding. That is not gonna happen. I love my baby's dad dearly, but I would love to get him a Revolve gift card. Do they sell men's clothes? The point is they have 1200 brands, a hundred thousand styles, all in one place. I was on the phone with them the other day. Like, there's nothing I don't like. There's nothing I don't like on this site. And don't let that deter you, because what I'm trying to say is that I have good taste now. It has curated edits for every occasion. Vacation, date night, birthdays. It also has every price point. Like, you can buy something, like, fancy if you want, but then they have, like, jeans. Can't only be 300. I don't know in what world. Okay, so. But they have every brand, spectrum of prices. So cute. They drop new arrivals daily. Always something fresh. Personally, I do. There's this brand Norma Kamali that I'm obsessed with. I picked up some cute basics. I will be wearing them at shows this fall. They offer inclusive sizing, of course. XXX to 4X, fast, free shipping, easy returns. I got myself a belt the other day. Got the wrong size. I got it. It was, you know, it's Revolve has it figured out. Go to Revolve. I'm going to give you $15 off your first order with code Whitney.

[B]

15%.

[A]

Pat, if you mansplain me again and dare to make sure I am accurate on this show, I'm gonna. This is a revolving door. Okay? You think this is Revolve? I'll show you Revolve. You'll come right back. Offer ends November 18th, so don't wait. And it's 15% off.

[B]

Pat, if you're going to order $1,500 worth of stuff, it's a. It's a big diff.

[A]

I said $15 off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Revolve.com Whitney with code Whitney. I think this is so much bigger than all this. Even, like, the people on the ostensible left that were, like, happy that this Charlie Kirk thing happened. I don't even think they're representative of the left. But we're not seeing representations of balanced people who aren't deeply, deeply ill. I'm like some amalgam of, like, what the left pretends to be and what the right denies they are. Like, at this point, if you're pro gay rights, you're helping the Republicans, okay? You're making it safe for those right wing Christian men to come out of the closet. Like, like they're all helping each other in the backwards way. Or am I making any sense? Like, at this point, if you're trying to stop climate change on the left, but that really only helps people with beachfront property, so you're just helping protect billionaire Republicans keep their beach homes, right? If you're on your high horse on the left about fixing racism, you know, most rich Republican dudes employ tons of workers whose hate you wanted to stop. They're giving them jobs. But you're like there, right? It's like, you know, when I say, like I think people, when they post on social media, they post at someone. I almost feel like the left and the right now are doing things like when I'll see like aoc, AOC and like Lalonde, like she was doing a lot just to try to communicate with Elon Musk for a while. And you're saying, what do you do? It's a. It's about another person instead. It's like posting to try to get to your ex instead of promote your brand. And I feel like that's what's happening with both sides now. They're just, instead of going, our job is to help America, they're going, I want to embarrass the right or get a point over them. Look, the left is pro gay trans drag people, right? But the Christian right, their leaders are men who wear dresses. So who's. You tell me. The left is about equality, but they never push for voting being a holiday. Every leader gets a holiday. Columbus is. They're obsessed with holidays. Columbus can't have the holiday. The native tribe gets the holiday. This person should get a holiday. This activist gets a holiday. Why? How? Why not have election day be a holiday so that people can equally go vote and be represented. But then they're like, this esoteric leader needs a holiday because they did this thing about minority rights. And then, you know, voting day comes around on a Tuesday and they're like, good luck losers. Good luck being represented. I just. The right is taking books out of schools. Who cares, dude? This, that's a state's rights thing. That is between the parents and the school. Why do you care what books a kid in another state is reading? This is for both sides. Creeps are like, my opening line is all about to kill a Mockingbird. So if you take that out of a school, I need a new pickup line.

[B]

They call me boo Radley on 4chan.

[A]

They have to read another book to. To figure out how to break the ice over at the yogurt shop. Who cares? The kids don't read the books anyway. No one read summer reading. Doesn't matter. Like, there's just. I can't. I don't know what side I'm on because I don't. I don't know. I don't know who's doing what. No one seems to be telling truth about what they're doing or why they're doing. Everything seems like it's about some other motive. When it's like, Ukraine, I'm like, there's something else going on. I don't know what it is, but there's something else going on in both initiatives on both sides that I see, you know, And I'm not. And also, I'm not. We can't have two parties. I can't. I can't even pick a grocery store, you guys. I go to Trader Joe's for the snacks, sprouts for the produce, and then I order my fake vitamin beverages off Amazon. I just. I don't tell you. I'm. I don't. I'm not married. You think I'm going to commit? Like Jim saying, literally every comment I've read is, see this watch? Can't get a husband. Oh, I can get one. Okay. I have been renovating my house for four years. I'm on Zillow every day. Okay. I don't define myself by a team comprised of people who didn't play sports. What do these people know about teams? They were in debate club doing mental masturbation in high school. Like, I don't. I'm not. I know. Thank you for staying with me on this. I'm just. I feel like for this to have happened to this man and for it to become about teams, even if someone on the left was cheering on it for somebody, these. It's like, guys, like, what are we doing? Like, it's just, like, to even. We're so deeply, like, bifurcated. It's our identity. Like, the fact that this is our identity is so weird. Right? And I know everyone. I do have, like, thoughts about Charlie Kirk. I know everyone's already made up their mind about him. I don't know enough about him. I. Like, I would really want to watch everything.

[B]

There's different versions of him that people can show you to convince you one way or the other.

[A]

He's 30. As far as I'm concerned. He's not even close to being the person he is. Like, you don't. The person I thought I was at 30. I look back now and I'm like, those were good points. But, like, I didn't know. Like, I just. That's who you are at that time. We all think that everyone that we see is like a snapshot of who they're going to be forever, you know?

[B]

No. He casts a really wide net.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So you could take five hours of footage and sell him to one person totally, and then take completely opposite, polar opposite footage and sell them to another person.

[A]

And like, look, I'm the first to say, look, I do always feel like when I'm about to say something negative about someone, I'm gonna say, here are all the positive things. So, you know, I'm not being, like, biased. Regardless of what he's saying, whether I agree with it or not, that doesn't matter. You know, a lot of people posting, I didn't agree with him, but it's like, just say, do you need to. You know? But I find myself doing it right now. I don't really know. I'm watching him after this has already happened, and I see it through a lens of, like, whatever he's saying should not have caused it, you know, so I'm. I'm looking through it as, this is someone's dad and we're in America. And I'm not even, like, I didn't agree with this. I did agree with this. I'm not even. I'm not really thinking about that. He's like a very deft, you know, clearly brilliant, brilliant debater. And you know what I would say to that would be like, the dialogue's great. We should be talking more. But like, you're so smart, you're so brilliant, like, debating kids in college. It's not that hard to win a.

[B]

He's willing to allow anybody to speak until they're done speaking, and then he's gonna dunk on them.

[A]

I think he could dunk on truly anyone. I think he's like such a heavyweight mentally that I'm sort of like, is this just to expose kids when they're at their wrongest? Is that. You know, that's what I would have said before he crossed over, But I go, this isn't hurting anything. This voice should. They should have a teacher like this at the school.

[B]

Well, he's putting the voices of the people talking to him on the Internet also.

[A]

Right. And then my question Is, do they know they're being. Do they know? Okay, okay. Because all these kids are. I would go, this guy's brilliant. Even if I don't agree with what he's saying, it doesn't matter. He's going to dunk on all these. Are. Is this publicly embarrassing, somebody knowing how smart and deaf you are? Like, is this gonna backfire with a someone? You can't just embarrass someone like that and have there not be some kind of. I don't know.

[B]

Well, I don't think this was a revenge killing for a one on one interaction.

[A]

I don't think it was either, but that's what I would have worried about. That's not what happened. Yeah, but I would have just gone like, I hope this guy is.

[B]

You know, I'd have to look it up. I'm sure he was getting death threats every day.

[A]

I don't believe that dialogue on a college campus is spreading hate or causing damage. I don't. And he's talking to people have very extreme people in college that have very extreme takes. That's always been that way to go. Like, those people, like, disagree. No, they don't. That person was probably gonna grow up to be Charlie. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, you know, I'm exaggerating, but the people that are in college, like, they're trying to piss off their parents. Like, that's what you're supposed to do with that age. Like, at 22, you want to go argue with someone and give it to them. And Charlie was like, I'm willing to be the dad that can't ground you.

[B]

Yeah, they all want to try it.

[A]

Let's go. You know, and to me, I looked at it as, like, sparring. I looked at it as, like, oh, finally I get to, like, try out this argument on someone that would have my dad's take and, like, him not go. You're grounded if you keep talking. You know, like, I feel like watching it. I saw these kids, like, you know, it being filmed. They obviously consented to it, you know, whatever. But this is what they're supposed to be doing. It's called identity differentiation. It's like at that point in your life, you're trying to separate yourself from your parents. It literally, like, there's a biological basis. It deters predators, whatever, who cares? But like, these kids that were arguing with him, like, we see, like, oh, yeah, see, this is why he had to go. It's like, who cares if a right wing dork tells a left wing ring 21 year old, they should get married and have kids. Who cares? Why do you care what's being said to a college kid? Unless you want to make sure that they agree with you so you get along when you start grooming them. Like what? Who care?

[B]

Like, it depends on what super cut you watch.

[A]

Okay, so a bunch of people say there's like, hate, hate.

[B]

There's like, there's different super cuts to the. But here's what else but his behavior at the school where he was when he was shot, that activity that he's been doing for years, that's probably the best version of him.

[A]

But. But the super cuts that are bad. Yeah, whatever he's saying, yeah, we don't.

[B]

It's the only thing the people that were jumping for joy were willing to watch of his and form an opinion on.

[A]

But you still shouldn't be assassinated in front of your kids.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like I when Osama bin Laden was assassinated. I'm like, guys, could we just keep him in a cell and study his brain? Like, if you really think someone is.

[B]

That big, just go find the smartest left wing debater and have them show up and do it in public.

[A]

I know that I'm in a weird space because I love hearing people talk that I don't agree with necessarily. I love watching the way somebody thinks. To me, it's like more like watching a, you know, cowboys versus Eagles or, you know, whatever it is, or. I mean, there's no other good team this year, but like actual, like watching that and watching how patient and gentle he was. Is gentle a bad word for him? Like just how maybe again, I'm seeing it through the eyes of like this per. I'm not seeing anything that made what happened good news, you know, And I think part of the reason he was so frustrating is he wasn't angry and mean to them and he wasn't Andrew Tate.

[B]

A lot of what people loved about him came out during those interactions. And then just as equally, the people that support him won't acknowledge a different supercut. And that's the supercut that everyone else is latching onto.

[A]

So it really is. We're living in different realities. And is there a version of a supercut of Charlie Kirk talking to kids? That would be the only thing I was exposed to that would make me joyful that that happened. No, all of us are, you know, trying to figure out our thing. And as I watched him some of these videos, I'm like, oh, that's. That's a different guy. Oh, okay. That you Know, whatever. It's like, everyone's like, am I this guy? The idea is that conversations change you. The idea is that, like, patient, real conversations change you. So it's like, you know, whether anything he was saying was right or moral or aligned with your beliefs. I hope those kids left either going, I hate that guy. But also, I need to have a better argument and not just rely on the fact that I. I'm moral even if I disagree with everything Charlie is saying. Watching him debate really highlighted this, whether it's the twitterfication or the online ification of, like, I don't have a good argument. I'm just gonna say you're a jerk. We're acting like when he went to these campuses, he was, like, traumatizing these college. Like, the point in college is you're supposed to argue and figure out what you believe because your parents won't listen to you. They tuned you out, truly. 20 years ago, like, truly, when you started crying in the crib, they were like, we're sleep training. And they stop listening to you. Okay? I mean, you're in college. You're supposed to go like, courtney Love was a better musician than Kurt Cobain. Hear me out. And everyone's like, what? These college kids? And maybe, by the way, of course, I'm obviously taking into account they were on camera. They could have been nervous. They could have had a, you know, whatever. There's a microphone. They're not norm. Normally in front of a camera, he is. He has that whatever. But it's like when you go like, oh, you know, all those likes I got on Twitter for this post wasn't from people, right. Who heard a coherent we. We. I think the left just leans more on online validation, building up their ego around in, you know, a sloppy argument. Because it's like, but I'm moral, But I'm unique. But I'm an underdog. But I'm whatever. All you want is someone who's, like, fair. What I gleaned was that he was as close to not a hypocrite as I've seen in a while. Like, I don't. Did he lie about. I don't know. Was he trying out new personalities and Personas for social. I truly don't know. Did he spread lies? I don't know. And by the way, neither do you, because nobody can prove what a lie is. Okay? But at this point, all I feel like I asked for is that someone doesn't know they're lying. If he was lying, it doesn't seem like. It seemed like he was. Believed what he was saying.

[B]

No, he was trying to convince them to agree with him.

[A]

Sure. But it wasn't like there was no like. And I don't know when my bar got so low for people that even when you disagree with someone to go like, well, here's like, I was watching him do something like at Oxford. It's in, in this. I don't, I don't remember exactly what the argument was, but she, he. She was like, well, this person hasn't done anything, you know, someone that was running for office or something. And he, he goes like, oh, well, actually served in the military, did this and this and this and this. But, you know, so we'll come back to that. Like, it was. There was something kind of like. And maybe that's a manipulation tactic and protect, whatever, but it just was like.

[B]

Doing your homework makes you a superhero these days.

[A]

It just. Yeah, and it just was like, the person that knew less was like, arrogant and patronizing, and the person who had the facts was like, here's the facts. And now I'm about to say something that's like, you know, right or left, who cares? But it was just sort of like, you know, there was just. There's a point where we have to separate intention and impact. And I. This is new for me to say this. I'm always like, impact is all that matters. Impact is all that matters. Especially if you're old enough to know better. But right now, things have degraded too much. And I think that it's impossible to track like, Like a true impact of something anyway, because there's too many variables, right? There's like Internet brainwashing, dead Internet, the ancestral. You can't really track where the impact is from necessarily. Right? It's like after Covid, people are like, was it Covid? Was it the stress from COVID Was it the masks? Was it the ventilators? Like, you can't. Like, we'll never know what caused certain things, you know, and like, we can't tell the impact of a lot of things. Like, what makes someone wanna. On a live. Is it chatgpt psychosis? Amygdala overreacted? Like, it could be. Was he taking things? Who knows? But I am at the point where I can see someone and go, like, is this person doing all this? Even if I agree with zero, do they truly. Are they truly doing it with like a. What's the word? Benevolent motive? Because you can see people running charities and doing all these, like, ostensibly good things with gross motives. And you're like, you know, and this guy. I guess part of the reason this is also so dicey for people is that, like, if you couldn't see that it seemed like he really cared about what he was doing, then you're gone. Mentally, I think we are missing out on a lot of really amazing people because they're never gonna run for office or be public figures. Cause they're like, this is not even worth it. You know, his intentions seem pure. Even if it's stuff that you think is backwards. You know, there's a lot of people that lead cults who truly believe they're helping the pe, you know, even if they're not. So it's like, I always say, like. Like people that are pro choice and pro life, the ones out protesting, they have more in common than any of the other ones. When a Dallas fan comes to an Eagles game and sits there knowing that they are just gonna get screamed at and booed the entire time, I'm like, we're the same. Even if someone is saying all the things you want them to say and all the things you agree with, doesn't mean they're doing it for the right reasons. Someone can do the wrong thing for the right reasons, and someone can do the right thing for the wrong reasons. And I think I'm seeing a lot of people on the left do the right thing for the wrong reasons. You guys are destroying yourselves listening to what people say. And I think we should all more be watching how people say it. And you're. Even if you have the correct argument, you're losing it because of how you're saying it. And this is more of a life advice all over the place type thing as I stutter through it trying to make an argument, and I can't. But, you know, my intention is good, you know, And I think that we're all. Maybe it's because we're reading things and not reading faces or whatever. So it's like. It's like when comics that are, you know, been doing it for 15 years, that are like, you know, still featuring, they're like, Kevin Hart sucks. You're like, oh, really? Yeah, he's. He's not funny. It's like, but you are funny. So what's your excuse? So how come the person who wasn't funny is so successful? It's like this. It's like, Charlie Kirk is a wrong. It's like, then why do so many. Then what's. What is he doing? Then what is he doing? He's saying it slowly. He's being respectful. He's taking someone else's view seriously, even if he doesn't agree with it. Maybe this episode is more of like a. Like a. An open letter to the left going, like, let's say everything's correct that you're doing and saying, which is you believe it. Can you say it with respect of the person you're talking? Like, I have not had someone on the left be able to have a conversation with me about anything without going. I'm just like, what? Are you all right? Watching him talk, by the way, I'd say this. Even if I just sort of got to know him in this horrific thing, didn't happen to him, I'd be like, whoa. Smart. When everyone's like. And trying to be like. He's just, like, listening and seems like he genuinely, like, respects and has patience for the person he's talking to. Well, yeah.

[B]

And he's willing to argue the point. Whatever they. Whatever they bring up, he'll talk about.

[A]

That instead of going, but your side. Yeah, interesting.

[B]

The fact that you bring that up means you're a whatever. Like, that's.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The ultimate cop out, which is you said something to me that I'm not prepared to explain. So rather than address it, I'm going to talk about the premise.

[A]

It's like my identity as a trump card. Oh. I'm trying to use victimhood as power, and it's not a good replacement for an elegant argument. And I think that that's. That's a lot of, like. I think it really illuminated a lot of what people are sort of struggling with right now and the frustration people are having. And another thing that. The last thing I'll say about it is that identities are. Last week, we talked about how that woman at the Phillies game is the new normal. I believe, because we need things we can't have. You know, people can't get houses they can't have. You know, and if you can't get famous or whatever, they don't. They can't get the Labubu. They need a thing. And I think the next Labubu is our beliefs. Like, your beliefs. Like, we're all Gollum with our beliefs now. I've never had any loyalty to any of my beliefs. Like, I'm always just like, why do I believe that? That's weird. Like, that goofy. Like, I'm just like, whoa, my beliefs. I'm, like, like, embarrassed about any belief. I've, like, that does nothing. My beliefs have nothing to do with me. Like, my opinions have nothing to do. Like, I don't identify with any of my beliefs because I'm like, well, I'm going to get some new information. It's going to be debunked. I must have, like, I don't know, all the information. How could. Right. But now with beliefs is all we have. We're all Gollum with our ring of beliefs. And, you know, I guess this new advantageous Darwinism is going to be. Who can let go of their belief? The ultimate narcissism is my beliefs are right forever. Like, tattoo it in stone. I'm right, I'm correct. And how could I not be? I lived in New York for a summer. Like, huh. We are in a crisis of not being able to say, like, huh. I don't know. I'd love to learn more about that. It's like. It's like people know what their beliefs are, the political. Or like how, you know, how guys can't admit when they were sleeping. If you, like, call a guy and three in the morning, he's like, I'm up. No, I wasn't. I was. I wasn't. But anyway, I guess I'm just saying, like, the people that were happy about this thing that happened, it validated a belief or something. It made. It gave their team a point. It was cheering like their team scored a touchdown, which means you've reduced this to a game.

[B]

He's the polar opposite of everything that people on the left hate about the left.

[A]

I hope the left just was cut in half between the people who were like, this is disgusting. And the people that were like.

[B]

And that seems to be what was prevented on the right.

[A]

Yeah, interesting.

[B]

He was about to split the right.

[A]

Pat just said something so wild. And you guys, let's focus on the things that really matter. Don't ride elephants, Sam.