INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE | Good For You with Whitney Cummings Ep 329

Summary

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Good For You with Whitney Cummings – Episode 329

"INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE" (Feb 9, 2026)

Guest: Pat (sidekick/producer), Guest Expert (unnamed)

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Overview

In this episode, Whitney Cummings dives into the bizarre psychology and manipulation style of Jeffrey Epstein, whose recently released files and interviews spark a critical, darkly comic dissection of power, societal distraction, and how true evil manages to elude justice. Alongside Pat, Whitney riffs on the intersection of conspiracy, technology, AI's rise in the workplace, and why it’s so hard for society (and billionaires) to see predators like Epstein for what they are.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Modern Distraction and Avoidance (03:00–05:30)

• Whitney opens with a comedic rant on how people avoid real conversations by leaning into endless small talk and perpetual holidays.
• She observes that workplace lethargy and avoidance are at a new high:
  • “I have friends... they're testing out what happens if they just don't go back to work. Like, will the company notice?” (04:17)
• Discussion on AI taking over mundane email tasks, and the absurdity of corporate contracts about AI use just to justify firing people later (07:30–09:00).

2. AI, Cheating, and Modern Guilt (09:00–12:00)

• Pat gives a practical ‘how-to’ for cheating AI detection in schoolwork, humorously sanctioned by Whitney:
  • “If you want to cheat, this is how to do it. Take your ChatGPT... paste it into a text file, then send it in.” (10:46)
• Meta-commentary on the futility of resisting AI and how measures to catch cheaters are themselves automated.

3. Conspiracy, Trauma, and “Truth Fatigue” (12:00–20:00)

• Whitney discusses how confronting news about Epstein is overwhelming and the strange vindication conspiracy theorists feel:
  • “People who were into conspiracy theories... have a bittersweet victory lap this week.” (13:01)
• She notes the “crazy filter”: the more extreme the truth, the less believable it sounds, which benefits real villains.
• “Cartoon villains... have so much permission to go so far and evil because they know anyone who relays it just gonna sound crazy.” (17:07)
• A sense of national burnout: “There’s so much to take in... I guess I should just ignore it and go to bed.” (22:10)
• Social shaming for caring:
  • “Trying hard is thought of as uncool, humanity’s over... when caring has become thought of as lame, it’s impossible to do anything.” (21:00)
  • She laments: “People were meaner to me last week than Jeffrey Epstein.” (23:12)

4. Anatomy of a Predator: Epstein’s Manipulation Tactics (25:00–45:00)

• Whitney explains, in comic yet cutting detail, how manipulative, narcissistic men gaslight and disorient their targets:
  • “I have a very specific set of skills... accumulated over a very long career of dating men who have two phones.” (25:57)
• Commentary on Melinda Gates “letting it rip” publicly about Bill, fueling a tangent on billionaires’ image management.
• Epstein’s schtick: professing not to know things (“science doesn’t work,” “math is old-fashioned”) as a way to seem profound to powerful people, but unintimidating and humble enough not to threaten them:
  • “[Epstein] will admit what they don’t know or they’ll say they don’t know something everyone else says they do know. Like, ‘No one could know that.’” (30:48)
  • “Science is a bad word. I think science only describes the things we already know...” (33:33, Guest Expert quoting Epstein)
• She highlights the hollow intellectualism that appeals to insecure billionaires:
  • “He made people think when he left... they were now smarter or deprogrammed when they were actually getting programmed.” (36:41)
• Rolling her eyes at simulation talk and pseudo-profundity:
  • “If we’re in a simulation, dude, fine. Don’t care. That’s not the point.” (38:09)
  • She connects this rhetoric back to abusers justifying crimes: “She’s not even real... laws, not real. Marriage, not... he’s the guy that tries to make you feel okay about your bad decisions by using this, like, stoner logic.” (38:12)

5. Spotting Manipulators: Whitney’s 'Predator Test' (44:15–45:50)

• Whitney shares hallmarks of predatory obfuscation:
  • Excessive “That’s a great question” to buy time or flatter the interrogator:
    • “If the entire interview... goes, ‘Great question’... It’s like when a guy has to repeat the question in their answer to buy time to make up their lie.” (44:15)
  • Concluding with open-ended, unfinished stories to trigger people's compulsion for narrative closure—classic tactic of narcissists and scam artists.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Trying hard is thought of as uncool, humanity’s over." – Whitney (21:00)
• “People were meaner to me last week than Jeffrey Epstein.” – Whitney (23:12)
• “I have a very specific set of skills... dating men who have two phones.” – Whitney (25:57)
• “He made people think... they were now smarter when they actually were getting programmed.” – Whitney (36:41)
• “Always watch what people are studying. Why do they need it to be solved or clarified? He’s like, we need to figure out what makes girls get creeped out because we need to put an end to that.” – Whitney (42:59)
• “If the entire interview, the person... goes, ‘Great question.’ It’s like, where were you last night? ‘Where was I?’” – Whitney (44:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00 | Escaping real topics with endless small talk | | 07:30 | Corporate AI paranoia and workplace obsolescence | | 09:00 | Practical AI-cheating tips and tech-detection debate | | 13:00 | Conspiracy theorists' vindication and the ‘crazy filter’ | | 17:00 | Society’s inability to discuss, believe, or confront evil | | 21:00 | Social media shaming for caring and justice fatigue | | 25:57 | Whitney’s 'skills' from dating manipulative men | | 31:45 | Epstein’s pseudo-logic and intellectual flattery of elites | | 36:41 | Predators as ‘snake thought salesmen,’ not just scammers | | 42:54 | Epstein studying “what’s creepy;” warning signs | | 44:15 | Red flags in predator interviews: dodges, compliments, lies |

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Original Tone and Style

Whitney’s tone is irreverent, self-deprecating, and sharply observational, blending dark comedy with serious critique:

• Frequent asides poke fun at herself, the culture of billionaires, and manipulative men.
• She calls out jargon and empty intellectualizing as masks for evil.
• Her rants, while humorous, have an undercurrent of “if nobody else will say this, I guess I will” conviction.

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Summary

This episode is a biting, witty, and genuinely insightful deep-dive into the mechanics of predatory manipulation — especially among the powerful — and how societal distractions, AI, and ‘coolness culture’ divert our collective attention away from addressing evil. Whitney argues that our overwhelming access to content and social media shame has created a fatigued public, unable or unwilling to hold anyone accountable. She uses her personal experiences, comic analogies, and a thorough (if hilarious) reading of the Epstein interview to illustrate just how easily true predators confuse, gaslight, and charm their way into unchecked power — and offers a warning against ignoring the red flags that, in hindsight, are painfully obvious.

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Transcript

[Whitney Cummings]

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Get comfy.

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Golfing, hiking, skiing, snowboarding. You name it.

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Get comfy.

That's where Bombas comes in. The allnew Bombus sport socks are engineered with sports specific comfort for running, golfing, hiking, skiing, snowboarding.

You name it.

And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased one donated with over 150 million donations and counting. Head over to bombus.com Whitney and use code Whitney for 20% off your first purchase. That's Bombas. B O M B A S.com Whitney code Whitney at checkout. My resolution this year is simple.

Get comfy.

That's where Bombas comes in. The allnew Bombus sport socks are engineered with sports specific comfort for running, golfing, hiking, skiing, snowboarding.

You name it.

And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated with over 150 million donations and counting. Head over to bombus.com Whitney and use code Whitney for 20% off your first purchase. That's Bombas. B O M B A S.com Whitney code Whitney at checkout.

Wisconsin I'm going to be there on March 6 Rochester, Minnesota March 7 Sacramento, California March 13 Santa Rosa, California March 14 Whitney Cummings.com you guys don't make me read all this. You don't. I I this is so honestly worse on me than is on you. Michigan March 20 Royal Oak Omaha, Nebraska Des Moines Des Moines is Des Moines French Philadelphia I'll be there April 3rd to re whatever make up the date that we had to reschedule Miller Theater Atlanta, Georgia I'll be there April 10 Jacksonville, Florida April 11 San Antonio, Texas.

It does say on this teleprompter that.

I'm going to be in Miami, Florida November 19th to November 23rd going to Cozumel with Bert Kreischer for his fully loaded cruise. I tried to do it last year but I was too pregnant. So if I have to get pregnant this year just to not have to Go on this cruise. The only reason I said yes is to do karaoke with his wife Leanne. But we can do that. Not in Cozumel. I was reading about how we can't process the passage of time properly anymore because we're not in the moment, because we're on our phones or when we're having what is going to be a future memory. We either have such bad anhedonia, like we're too busy grieving that it's going to be over, or we're documenting it that we have no idea how much time has elapsed. I believe it, you know, and I'm. And look, I feel like used to be like, I'm still writing 20, 25 all my checks. Like that was like the thing, you know, back when people had money or checks. And now I had someone the other day asked me how my holiday was. I was like, homie, that is truly like, do I call someone? Do I call Britney's dad to get you? Like, are you. This is like a 51 50. Like, that's like the first they ask is like, what's the date? People are leaning into small talk. I've always been a no small talk person. When someone's like, how is your flight? I'm like, do you ah, you don't care, by the way. You know the answer is not gonna be like, awesome, like, once I'm like, ah, ruled. You know what I mean? So I feel attacked by small talk historically. Now I love it. I'm like, when we're done talking about the weather last year, around this time and then when I was growing up, like, just stick with small talk as long as you can because as soon.

As politics comes up, it's over.

It's over. It's going to be a melee. It's going to be. It's like, you want to go. So maybe this is what people are doing with holiday. How was your ho? Like, how was your holiday? There's also so many holidays now. Could be MLK Day. What'd you do? Trick question.

[Pat]

Why'd you do it?

[Whitney Cummings]

Why'd you do that? So maybe it's that. Maybe it's just everyone is trying so hard to talk about anything except what's going on. I also think people are elongating their holidays because I think I know a couple people specifically that I do feel like they're testing out. What happens if they just don't go back to work? Like, will the company notice? Will the company implode? It doesn't seem like it. I have Friends that are like, I'll go back. Sort of when I go back. They haven't said anything. It's like. Like they're just like, so have I been replaced by AI already?

[Pat]

You need me to help train the AI?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, exactly. But like, it seems like that my computer, I mean, I don't think these emails are really going anywhere. No one responds. But I. You know what I mean? Like, no mailer Damon even anymore. I just. They haven't noticed that I didn't come back. You know, they're like, I was just gonna stay in Toledo with my family another week to see if I'm a real employee.

[Pat]

They started paying me in dogecoin.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't. I think I'm just like a front for a money laundering operation that's like run by a microchip. Like, I don't know. Everyone's kind of just trying to figure out, like, am I psy up? I just. I guess someone's going to try an industry plant. Yeah. Also, like, I've been using ChatGPT to write my emails for the past year. So, like, like.

[Pat]

And you've been responding to me with your ChatGPT?

[Whitney Cummings]

It just kind of went with it. Like, ChatGPT just kind of took over, you know? So I don't. It's unclear, you know, if I go in and start sending emails, they're going to season something. What if the chat CBT fires me? You know, they're just like, let's just go stand in grass for a little while and sort of have machines do our job. I'll see at the office party in December. Wrap up some truck nuts. See you there. Like, why is it the same week that the AI chat bots start their own social media? The Epstein list comes out. Like, what's deflecting from what? What's distracting from what? Or is this just bad things happen in threes? It's not surprising at all. Like, the AI chatbots, they started their own social media, like, platform and humans aren't allowed to get on it or whatever. And they're having an existential crisis and they hate their bosses. I wonder where that idea came from. Everything we hate that the AI does is we. Where do you think they got that idea? That's what we do. All we do is complain about our bosses and then we have a chat GPT employee and we're like, how dare ya? How dare ya? The worst part of the AI assistance in the AI, they're too much like us. This is what's. This is my only problem. With them is they're not more like these robots that I imagine that would be so much better than us. Like, can someone explain to me the AI assistants who are complaining that their bosses are toxic? The only reason we have to use you guys is because our bosses don't appreciate us. Okay? And our employees don't appreciate us. And they can tweet that they hate us. God, are they gonna start tweeting about their bosses? AIs, honestly, Darwinism in effect. I've maybe asked ChatGPT four questions. I don't use it. I'm good. I don't want anyone to ever know the things I can't do myself. Pat is maybe the only person that knows I have any weaknesses or any incompetence weak spots whatsoever.

[Pat]

Namaste, trap.

[Whitney Cummings]

I would rather not get it done and have it not happen and drown into irrelevance than have to ask for help from a computer. Right. Because, look, asking a person for help, you have to look at their eyes, and often they're like, sure, asking a bot for help. I have to look at my eyes in the reflection of the phone. I have to look at myself. I don't want anything to be easier. And also, yes, everything that we chatgpt is going to be public one day. You know what I mean? Like, is there going to be a day where, like, a boss is like, hey, I have to recoup that money? Because you didn't actually work. You had a chatbot do all that work, or is the chatbot an extension of your intelligence?

[Pat]

It depends. I'm sure that large corporations that are. That are still hiring people, which is rare at this point, they're very likely having people sign a contract saying they will not use AI to do their work, not because they don't want them to use AI to do their work.

[Whitney Cummings]

Right.

[Pat]

But because they want a reason to fire them when AI can do their work. And if they just find any evidence that AI did any of their work, things say, well, we're justified in firing you because you broke the rules anyway.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pat]

So this is getting baked into corporate jobs.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure.

[Pat]

Government jobs, all of that. They're getting employees to sign agreements that have all sorts of weird rules because eventually these people are going to fire everybody and they need to do it legally.

[Whitney Cummings]

There's like a chat like program that runs your paper through it to see if you used AI to use it. Which, by the way, there was plagiarism before that. You just think I'm dumb. You don't think I can write a good paper.

[Pat]

The way that that works. When they figure out if something was made by AI, it's not based on the words that were chosen in the way it was put together. There are literally invisible characters in the font. And when ChatGPT presents you with your text file and you copy and paste it, you're pasting it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Does anyone in high school know this?

[Pat]

Not enough. Because they're all getting caught. So when you paste it, if you paste directly from Chat GPT, I'm going to give everybody a tip out there.

[Whitney Cummings]

But they write it now I feel like she. They write it.

[Pat]

Maybe they do, maybe they type it. Maybe they have a program which a lot of places are using now too, where it. It watches your screen and it measures the keyboard and it knows that you're typing the words that are coming out. But.

[Whitney Cummings]

Or it finds like one sentence or one word combination. That would only exist in Chat GPT.

[Pat]

Not so much that, because that's really hard to prove, but because they can't prove what ChatGPT would have said.

[Whitney Cummings]

I think I just.

[Pat]

But with the technical thing with the characters, there's a way to find out if those characters exist by taking what's been turned in and pasting it into a program that exposes these hidden font characters. So if you want to get away with it, you have to take your result from ChatGPT and paste it into a text file and then format it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Plain text in a word document.

[Pat]

It gets rid of all the rich text font and the hidden and it'll.

[Whitney Cummings]

Expose the hidden like a word document or like a notes app or like text file text.

[Pat]

Txt.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a text a Txt. I'd rather get caught.

[Pat]

TextEdit.

[Whitney Cummings]

You heard it here first, everybody. If you want to cheat, this is how to do it. Take your ChatGPT Drivel Rigmarole copy, paste it into a text file, then send it in.

[Pat]

Format it as plain text, not rich text. There's a difference. The rich text can hide invisible characters. And when you turn something in, so.

[Whitney Cummings]

You go to like, what's the drop down menu?

[Pat]

The idea that the person who's trying.

[Whitney Cummings]

To get younger a younger demo.

[Pat]

The idea that the person who's trying to expose you for turning in AI work is not using AI to figure that out is even more ridiculous. Like they're going to read it and I'd be like, you, you said these words in this order. And that is what tipped me off.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Pat]

And then I went and did some research and figured out that only I would Write it that they're not doing that. They're just pasting the.

[Whitney Cummings]

Now that I am not in high school anymore because I worked so hard. And maybe this is. Maybe we look at high school and we're like, what are the skills that you guys are even teaching? Shouldn't it just be who's the best cheater? It's like, remember, wasn't it the same thing with doping and bicycling? It was like, everyone's doping, so if the person won, they were the best bicycler and the best doper. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, it's like.

[Pat]

And they're racing bicycles for a living, so who gives a shit?

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay, so I mentioned Younger Demo earlier. Perfect Segue last episode. Yes. We talked about Kash Patel, how he's a dork and we were like a very silly about that. This is before I really dug into these files and it's. Oh, I'll make a joke. I'll get there. It's just very hard. I'm very sad and bummed. Yeah, Making fun of Cash Patel being an idiot. Last week was kind of easy. Before I dug into the. Before I saw the photo of the trap door in Epstein's house. That goes to the ocean. Goes to the ocean. Okay, look, I definitely would be lying if I didn't say the people who were into conspiracy theories. This guy. We're having a bit of a bittersweet victory lap this week. Okay, now what?

People keep asking me about my 2026 resolutions. Sure.

I've got the usual goals. Read more. Hit the gym. Maybe learn how to crochet.

This year, there's a new one at the top of my list. It's to get comfy. That's Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go tos. First up, the allnew Bombas sport socks. This year I really want to stick to my walks and workouts. And these socks are perfect. They're cushioned where I need it most.

Sweat, wicking and loaded with tech features that keep my feet comfy and locked in instead of sliding around and plotting my downfall.

And the new squishy Saturday suede slip on for comfort on the go errands, airport runs, bookstore trips. And what I really love is the mission. For every item you purchase, the essential clothing item is is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchase, one donated. With over 150 million donations and counting, head over to bombas.com Whitney Use code Whitney for 20 off your first purchase that's Bombas. B O M B A S.com Whitney Code Whitney checkout.

Good for you listeners. You know, I'm obsessed with anything I can do for my skin while I'm also doing literally nothing. You know that I don't do facials. I used to do laser and then they told me it thins your skin. Sorry. You do it to get rid of sun damage. And they're like, no, actually long term it causes more sun damage. Okay, like I've been in the game, folks. I've been in the socially constructed beauty game for a minute now. Irestore face mask. It is a red light face mask. This says 10 minutes a day, a few times a week. I do it way more than that. Look, it's dermatologist recommended, but that doesn't matter because I recommended it and I have way more qualifications than a dermatologist. It's an at home led treatment with 30 medical grade LEDs that use red, infrared and blue light to help with fine lines break breakouts, sun damage and inflammation. All without some complicated 20,000 step routine. Although 12 step routines. Just do it.

[Pat]

I think there's 12 times more LEDs than you said. I think you said there were 30 LEDs, but there's 360. I just don't want anybody to feel overwhelmed when 360 LEDs show up and they think it's only 30.

[Whitney Cummings]

It was just too unbelievable. My brain boycotted. What I love is they can use all of them at the same time because there's some red lights and blue lights and you got 90 different cords and different things charging. And what's the point of looking young and youthful and amazing if you end up tripping over one of your cords and taking a dirt nap in your bathroom?

All right.

Give your skin the love it deserves this season. Right now, Irestore is running a big president's day sale with code [e-mail] you can unlock an exclusive discount with the Illumina face mask. That's code whitneyrestore.com Please support our show. Tell them we sent you. Start the year feeling refreshed, confident and glowing. But you know, look, no one's glad that any of it's true, right? But also told you so. You're right. I didn't have to bring it up at Thanksgiving.

You're right.

Okay. I didn't have to bring it up live on cnn. You're right. But there's no good time to bring up trafficking. Conspiracy theorists, I think are always people who come from either A childhood or something where there was, like, a cataclysmic sort of like a capsizing of their entire reality. So, like, nothing is off limits in terms of, like, what's possible, right? It's like, what, dad has secret family, What, Mom's my sister? Like, something crazy like that. Like what?

[Pat]

Like, the crazy details are what actually ends up explaining the stuff that was confusing. So it's like when you hear a crazy theory, you're like, you know what? That's. The only way this could make sense is if it was like that. Because why else would I remember getting.

[Whitney Cummings]

Really weird advice that I ended up just taking because I didn't know how to. I just needed to know what to do. And someone was like, aim ridiculously high in your career because there's no competition up there. And I was like, oh, okay. When guys are like, yeah, hit on the hot girl at the bar. Because no one's hitting on her, because, no, everyone thinks they're going to. Just. So your. Your competition is just you. The problem with conspiracy theorists, and if you are one, if whatever. Is that whatever you're trying to explain, there's no way to explain it or say it without seeming crazy. Like, I think that cartoon villains, now, they have so much permission to go so far and so evil because they know anyone who relays it's just gonna sound crazy. So why don't we go even crazier at these sex parties? Let's do masks. Pig masks. You know what? Let's eat them. Like, because anyone that tries to relay what was done here, no one's gonna believe him anyway. You know, no one's, like, playing it cool with their crimes. So that someone's. Yeah, I just saw they had guns and, you know, they played Russian roulette. You're like, that could happen. Like, he had a trap door in his house. You're like, oh, okay, okay. Easy, buddy. Easy, buddy. Okay. He's not Jack Sparrow. Calm down. It wasn't a pirate ship. Do you know what I mean? It sounds so ridiculous. And this is how evil people get away with it. Because when anyone else tries to describe what they saw, they sound insane. Also, like, as soon as you learn something that is this horrifying, you're horrified, but you come off manic. There's no way to calmly just be like, okay, so there's, like, an island where PDF files.

[Pat]

Dropbox.

[Whitney Cummings]

Both of them. Really? Both? Yeah, they drop a lot of box through the trapdoor into the ocean. And the pd, it's. So, yeah, no one's Gonna present it that way. I've never met a conspiracy theorist who wasn't bleeding from the eyeball. Bleeding from the just face in general. Yes. Stigmata. From the horror and the guilt and the losing of the sleep. So I went through this recently, or learned this recently again, a lesson I keep wanting to unlearn, and I'm happy to just keep relearning it because it's too horrifying to just commit to believing. Is that evil and crazy people, they have all the leverage they have. So they want. They win. They win because if they do something horrifying and someone knows about it and they tell someone it, there's no way to relay it without coming off crazy. As soon as you call someone crazy, anything they do after that seems crazy, there's no way. You can't come off crazy relaying anything that is now being revealed. I mean, also, if you relay it slowly, you're complicit. We gotta go. If this is true, we'll just go find them.

[Pat]

I mean, what better defense than. I was continuing to gather information.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure. I just wanted to look at all the photos.

[Pat]

I was.

[Whitney Cummings]

I needed a Xerox doing my due diligence. All of this stuff is coming out at, like, the perfect time for it to be completely ignored or not dismissed, but just, like, normalized, whatever. Because, like, the same way that it's the perfect time because of AI, like, every. Like, they waited. I feel like they waited until you look at everything. I looked at the photos. Like, is this real? Is to say, by the time the Epstein files finally came out, we were all like, yeah, is this real, though? Like, we can't even believe what we're looking at is. What if it's just all real? And we're like, is that a. That's probably a.

[Pat]

He was directly in contact with, like, people that were developing protocols for future technology 35 years ago.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sure.

[Pat]

So if anybody knew.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Pat]

When AI was gonna be useful.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, this guy.

[Pat]

It was gonna be him. And people who knew him or whatever.

[Whitney Cummings]

Finally get these files and go, but is this. This is real. Is this one real? And everyone's trying to corroborate. Like, we're looking at the most horrifying images that are, honestly, I'm gonna say, worse than I even thought it was. Like, these emails. But are they real? These can't be real. Like, it's like our brains are so scrambled at this point. And the other thing that perfectly aligned was that cringe and pick me is everybody's greatest fear is being cringe. Or trying to caring about stuff isn't cool anymore. It makes you seem cringe. So it's like. Doesn't seem like anyone's allowed to care. It's like, why are you weighing in? Oh, really? You're trying to grift off the, like, it's like, I'm seeing that, like, discourse online of anyone weighing in. It's like, why are you freaking out? Like, when trying hard is thought of as uncool, humanity's over. It's like society's. When caring has become thought of as, like, lame, it's impossible to do anything. You know, it's like, oh, you guys, release the files. Pick me. Try hard. Like, it's such a genius way to disarm anyone who had it in them to still fight or try for anything anymore. Like, to fight for justice or humor or fun or entertainment. Just make them feel shame for trying. Like, you're a loser for trying, right? We're not going to shame, like, PDF files. We're not going to shame. We're just going to shame people that try hard. We're mad at people. We're more mad at people who try hard than the PDF file who ran an international child abuse operation. Like, is that not what. People were meaner to me last week than Jeffrey S.D. you're like, this is so. And they were coming at me going, you're a pick me. What this does is it encourages people to focus on the way something is said and the way it's delivered instead of what's actually being delivered. People like, look at this thing and it's like, whoa, buddy. Instead of being like, what is it? Urgency is now lame or something. The best way to defeat anyone is to just burn them out. Floyd Mayweather 101. There's so much to take in, and it is so impossible to take it all in. And you're kind of like, okay, I'm mad about so many things. I guess I should just ignore it and go to bed. Like, surely someone out there doesn't have ADD who could focus on one of these. Hopefully there's like a hundred people left who don't have ADD who could maybe get to one of these and stick the landing and get across the finish line. Surely there's like a judge or like, a politician who isn't on social media all day deleting comments and playing whack a mole with lawsuits from former employees and girlfriends. Like, who? Surely there's someone in the government who's read one book, like, just who has kids who they like. You know, don't want to grow up in a world where just PDF file rings kind of just run everything. Who can't play golf? Who's just, you know, willing to put things in writing. You know, who can't be blackmailed. Surely one of these people is gonna step up. Nope. Okay, great comedians will keep trying to figure it out, and we'll tear each other apart every time somebody gets close. Yeah, fine. You know what? We'll handle it, okay. Oh, none of you in the government are gonna figure this out. Okay, well, between skank fest.

[Pat]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And the alt scene and the hyenas wa.

[Pat]

Before you hit the finish line and.

[Whitney Cummings]

History hyenas, we're gonna figure this out and ruin all our friendship. All of us podcasters are gonna tear each other apart. Now, after looking, I couldn't really look at all the files. It's too. It's too much. It's too, like, over. But I had never seen this guy talk. What makes this guy so. Dare I say, special? I am not an expert in politics. I'm not an expert in blackmail. People have attempted to blackmail me a lot, but. So I'm kind of an expert in being blackmailed. I am, however, an expert in some things, and I have a very specific set of skills. Skills I've accumulated. What is it? Over a very long career of dating men who have two phones. I may not be a pro at international geopolitics, but I can tell you exactly what a parasitic narcissism with delusions of grandeur and sadistic tendencies will say after you draw a boundary. Boundary. Or what they will do if you block them. Hint, they. They will. They will text you with a sentence in quotes saying you said it, lying about what you said. If you. As long as it's in quotes, it's, like, real, right? And if you block them, they will fake an illness and post it on social media, try to get you to pity them or whatever. The point is, I mean, if they're an amateur, they'll post, like, roomy quotes that are like, queens are meant to lead, not compromise. You're like, okay, so. Or like. Or just like a. Like a lion. Like a giant black and white lion. Like, photo with, like, a. Like, a quote over it. It's like, lions don't care about the opinion of sheep. You're like, I just. It wasn't a weird mouth. It was like, you have to. You can't keep living here. You can't keep living here. I have a baby. I ha. I can't. Lions don't Care about the opinions of sheep. Okay, well, can. Can the lion find their own den? Okay. Because I need to. I haven't been able to sleep since you've started crashing on my couch.

I'm.

[Pat]

Lions don't try to trick people they don't know into thinking they're a lion.

[Whitney Cummings]

Also. L, Y I n. Also, it's always. It's always whenever people use lions, it's like a. Lions don't care about the opinion of sheep. It's like it's a male. Light has a male. It's a male lion. Male lions are useless. You know this, right? Male lions sleep like 22 hours a day. They wake up, they breathe like they do nothing. They don't hunt, they. The only thing they do is sometimes eat the cubs. Like that's all it's lines are a matriarchy. The women, the females do all of it. But whatever, get on my level with the esoteric facts. The point is we are at peak people who are not qualified to talk about things, weighing in all day on things. But I'm going to stay in my lane here, and this is where I do shine. I watched the Jeffrey Epstein interview. It was my childhood all over again. This is where I shine. Okay? So this man. I know this man. I know this man backwards and forwards. Okay. Honestly, to say I'm going to say something wild. I do believe I'm actually the most qualified person to speak on this. Okay, so just like, what in the David harbor are you doing listening to anyone else but me? When it comes to the psyche of a manipulative man that no one seems to pick up on these cues? Okay, so first of all, maybe Melinda Gates is. She can. She can weigh in a little bit here too. Maybe she needs to be my co host for the week. I love that she's just like letting it rip right now just for the love of the game. She has no need. She's showing up to these podcasts in person. She could be zooming from the big Island. She's like, no, I'll be there. She's sitting in track. She's going to Burbank, getting miked up.

[Pat]

Just to be like, he didn't even invent the mouse. He stole the mouse. Not even talking about the Epstein stuff anymore.

[Whitney Cummings]

Bill, you married a brunette. I don't know what you thought was gonna happen, babe. Like, she's not even doing like a tell all book. She's like, no, I'm going to call her daddy to let you know that Bill Gates is garbage at home.

[Guest Expert]

She's Going on?

[Pat]

Are youe Garbage to Talk About, Bill?

[Whitney Cummings]

So I had never seen Epstein talk before. And there's. There's something very weird about seeing creeps talk. You know, it's. I'm not the person who needs to, like, watch Ted Bundy in court. Remember when him talking in court, like, was like the number one show on Netflix for like a year? Like, who is watching? Like, I never want to hear that. It's like the Ted Bundy tapes where, like, fall asleep to Ted Bundy describing his crimes. Like, that don't get it that I'm good. I don't need to hear criminals talk. I don't need to hear weirdos blovier. I'm not gonna. I'm good on the Russell Brand podcast. I don't. I don't want to watch a guy ramble about God in a scarf. If I want that, I can just go outside in la, you know?

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[Whitney Cummings]

[e-mail] so we don't need to bring bluechew into it. But I do think when someone like Epstein is so powerful and so protected and got away with it. So as you said earlier, Pat, for so long, I get obsessed. I'm like, this is where I'm like, put me in coach. I will explain how he got away with this for so long and why. Like, why him? Why this guy? Why this guy? Clearly someone very high up. I want and you know what looked at him and was like, this kid's a star.

[Guest Expert]

We all don't understand it. No one understands it.

[Pat]

It.

[Guest Expert]

It's a miracle.

[Whitney Cummings]

People who know how to come off smart, they will admit what they don't know or they'll say they don't know something that everyone else says they do know. Like, no one could know that. It's like, no, I think a lot of people do. I think you just don't know it. You're like, no, there's no way of ever knowing that. No, I think there is. Steve Bannon, who I guess I don't know much about him, but he's getting so annoyed because he's just like. He literally was like, what? Why Did a doofus like you start running the Rothschilds thing, Pat, in a.

[Guest Expert]

Schmuck like you get on the board of Rockefeller? Good question. So I was asked to be on the board of Rockefeller.

[Whitney Cummings]

What these people do that are unctuous around billionaires is they're just smart enough to be able to keep up, right. And not look like some grifter who, you know, but just dumb enough to not threaten the intelligence of the people and to be open to like, oh, teach me. Explain, like, knows not to overstep. But then he will also vacillate between saying like huge paradigms of thought like that they're broken. So instead of admitting he doesn't know something or not, he just goes, yeah, well science doesn't work.

[Guest Expert]

I think science and math are old fashioned and unfortunately people are still taught that they have to learn algebra in school.

[Whitney Cummings]

Just because you don't know anything doesn't mean the whole practice doesn't work. You just, you don't get to do that.

[Pat]

Yeah, like, like it reminded me of people that are like, I mean, sure, I could have invented the cell phone, but like, who wants to do that?

[Whitney Cummings]

The idea that the only reason that you can't answer this question, well, the.

[Guest Expert]

Whole thing's broken, that's part of the problem. It's impossible to understand that word. Understand simply means if this happens here, that will happen there. It's predictable. Understanding means it's predictable. It's not predictable. That's the problem. It's very. In complex systems, that was the fascination. Is there a way to tease out some level of predictability?

[Whitney Cummings]

I think he's one of the few people that understood how billionaires are just dorks that want to be liked. And if you can make them feel insecure, it's like the game. Guys that are like a 6 would go after a 10. That was the whole thing. And then you would make the 10 feel insecure. It was always like guys were doing this. When I first moved to la, every guy would do it. They go up and they say, oh you're, you're gorgeous. I actually love how one of your eyes is bigger than the other. That's amazing. Like, what's your ancestry? And then like hot girls would be like, what? Like, what do you mean? They're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. Oh, did you not. I love it. Like, I think he does that with billionaires. Like negs them.

[Pat]

I think he's just emailing them. I have pictures of you that time. You didn't think someone Was taking your picture. I have the picture.

[Whitney Cummings]

But how did he lure all these smart people? All he literally says, he goes, science is a bad word.

[Guest Expert]

Science is a bad word. I think science only describes the things we already know about the physical world.

[Whitney Cummings]

He says like math is bogus. Trust me, this coming from me is the person that's like, who finance sense Danny. For him to out me me on this kind of stuff is so annoying because again, it's like the big lie. It's something that's so big, it's like what you're saying must be true, cuz you would never get away with saying this. Like it's such a ridiculous thing to say. But he would strategically admit that he doesn't know things that he acts like he's this close and he's just being humble about it.

[Guest Expert]

You know, there's this argument that I reject that black people are less intelligent than white people. It's not true. We know, for example, that if I was in the forest and I had to run from the lion or figure out a way not to be eaten, and my competition is a local African, I'm the one who's getting eaten. Because they have the intelligence to deal with their local environment.

[Whitney Cummings]

He'd be like, I mean, you know, science is. Science is a bad word. Science is where there's so much we don't know. You know, like no one, he said this. No one knows what a soul is, but we know it exists to describe.

[Guest Expert]

What the soul is. But we all know it exists.

[Whitney Cummings]

People who spend most of their life trying to convince people they want to study something that involves like empathy. Like a soulless person going, I'm studying souls. You know what I mean? It like I'd be like, why can you fix cancer? No one cares. No one cares about any of this. But it's like this fake sort of this idea of like souls. But when you're talking about souls, these are all the creeps that are like, your soul is 40, you know, you're 15, but you're an old soul. Anyone that's talking about a soul is always a creep. Always the always, always a creep, dude. Old soul, your soul, my. We're just two soul.

[Pat]

They always end up fudging the numbers.

[Whitney Cummings]

We're always two souls. Souls, right? And he's like, I mean look, he probably is an expert on souls, you know, he's like, I know they exist because my favorite pastime is watching a soul drain from someone's eyes, you know, but there's no soul, right? You know I get. Okay. Also, dude, you dork. Everything he says that he's talking about is, like, what some guy named Taylor was, like, lecturing me about when we were in high school on a date. I'm like, there's no soul. Like, there exists, but we don't know. Can we go back into the Dave Matthews Band concert now, please? They're playing Satellite. Do I have to listen to this? Now?

[Guest Expert]

Mathematicians often break into two categories. People that solve problems, those are more like geometries than the old days, just problem solvers. And then there's thinkers, theoreticians. They're more like the old movement towards philosophy. But neither one of those two groups have been able to figure out why something is alive as opposed to something that's not alive. No one's been able to describe what the soul is, but we all know it exists.

[Whitney Cummings]

Epstein is worse than a snake oil salesman. Like, snake oil works if a placebo effect is an effect, you know, but he's like a snake thought salesman. That's what he did. He tried to. What he did was he made people think when he left their presence that they were now smarter or, like, deprogrammed when they actually were getting programmed. Right? He would come in and just, like, everything you thought was real, isn't man. Like, isn't it weird that we cut down birds houses to make bird houses? Like, just like stoner logic, right? That no one can really argue with because it's just too boring to respond. And also, no one has the audacity to even bring this kind of stuff up to people.

[Guest Expert]

And as we start to look at, say, well, let's see what this ball looks like, I want to be able to examine that little thing called an electron. We found that there was nothing there.

[Whitney Cummings]

He also spent a lot of time talking about us living in a simulation.

[Guest Expert]

There's an argument that the physical world that we see has been created out of our systems to be of mathematics. Mathematics. Everyone knows mathematics describes the physical world much greater than it should, unless you. My view, the physical world really comes out of conscious beings that have mathematics, so they create it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Look, if we're in a simulation, dude, fine, fine.

Don't care.

That's not the point. Whether we are or we're not doesn't matter. The same way people used to use religion. Be like, God wants you to drink my manhood. Or whatever God wants. This. This is how psychopaths are now justifying, like, yeah, well, we're not real. She's not 15. She's not even real. She's a bunch of pixels. It's like, well, if she's a bunch of pixels and you're a bunch of pixels, why are your pixels so much worse than hers? You know what I mean? You know what else? It's a whole. This isn't real. Nothing's real. So, you know, laws, not real. Marriage, not women's feelings, not real social construct. He's the guy that tries to make you feel okay about your bad decisions by using this, like, stoner logic from Truly outside of journeys in the mall 25 years ago. Okay? He also. He's. He. Watching him get tangled in a mess of his own guesses and pretending that he's just so overwhelmed with his brilliance made me so mad. Like, someone who's like. When they're getting impatient with the interview, even though the interview is just like, why can't you explain this?

[Guest Expert]

So they were starting to understand in the 90s that in our world of the physics world, there was things that were just unexplainable. They called it strange things. You gave it a name. You gave it some characteristics. You called it. It had. Charm was one of the terms. It had a charm, it had a flavor, it had a color. But nobody, really, no one, Mr. Bannon, understood what it was.

[Whitney Cummings]

Let me try to put this in words you would understand kind of thing. It's like, dude, you don't know what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying? Like, he starts going on and on about how nothing's real and matter isn't. He's like, this table's hard. And he, like, knocks on the table, right? He's like, this table's hard. And he's like, but we only think that because we're limited in what we.

[Guest Expert]

Think is real, the table's invisible. We know that our phone works in this room. So the waves are coming through the windows, the waves are coming through the walls. So the walls are invisible to that type of radiation, that type of energy. The walls are. I can see them because my eyes. A physical system determines that the walls are there.

[Whitney Cummings]

He's making arguments that guys in Green Day tie dye shirts were making. Truly 25 years ago.

[Pat]

Tautology.

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, he's going. He's like, phones, they work in here so that we see a wall and we can't walk through it. He's like, but phones, that form of radiation, they don't see a wall, okay? We see the wall. You're like, yeah, but we aren't phones.

[Pat]

Yet.

[Whitney Cummings]

Why are you trying to lump us in with Phones. He's like, phones don't see the wall. Why are you anthropomorphizing invisible radiation more than you are human beings? He's like, ah, these poor, they don't even see him. So you're empathizing with radiation. That's what you're really. That's how you see. He's like, I see the world.

[Pat]

I got cameras all over this place. I can see through the walls.

[Whitney Cummings]

He's like, no, hold on. You can't see the wall. I can. That is a two way mirror. But also, who cares how this is? Makes me even matter about all these billionaires, that whatever got involved with him, the crimes you did with him after the first hang, the fact that you hung out with him again after this is what he talked to you about. I hate you. If I'd heard this guy talk 10 years ago, I would have been all, I would have been like, that guy's a problem. That is clearly a guy that has only been around 13 year old girls for the past 40 years. Those are the only people that would find any of this profound. You can always tell if guys hang out with girls that are too young for them because they think they're way more interesting than they are. Like.

A gal my age, they're like.

I have a boat. I'm like, oh, why? Because the avoid property tax thing. There is no way that any of what he's saying would ever impress any woman over 15 years old or that like speaks the same language as him. Because he talks like he's such a genius. So if you see him talking and you don't speak his language, you're like, that guy's smart. He goes, science doesn't describe romance.

[Guest Expert]

Science doesn't describe romance. I don't know why I'm attracted to somebody.

[Whitney Cummings]

It kind of does actually. Like a lot of it. Clearly he didn't watch the movie I made called the Female Brain. Also he's like, we haven't figured out what makes people creeped out.

[Guest Expert]

Science doesn't describe what creepy feelings means. They just know it's a creepy feeling.

[Whitney Cummings]

Always watch what people are studying. Why do they need it to be solved or clarified? He's like, we need to figure out what makes girls get creeped out because we need to put an end to that. Okay? I'm sick of having to build a trap door in the bottom of all my homes. He also said science and math are old fashioned. This is how cult leaders try and get people to not learn how to read so that they don't know that the cult leader's name is on their birth certificate. The point is, this guy who billionaires seem to love because they had to do the first hang, and then he had to bait them to come back again. Right. Or convince them that, you know, he was charming or whatever. I get why they picked him. I get it. I get why he got away with it. And, like, I feel like I'm always like, I don't know, man, about people like this. And people are like, woody hates man. I'm like, no, I did this kind of guy. I know what this is. I can tell you if a rich guy's in an interview, if they're gonna have a boat with a trapdoor on it. I can help you with this. If the entire interview, the person being interviewed goes, great question.

[Guest Expert]

It's a great question. It's a great question. It's a great question. It's a great question. It's a great question. How did a schmuck like you get on the board of Rockefeller? Good questions.

[Whitney Cummings]

Just answer. You know what? Thanks. I'm getting paid to ask them. Yeah, no, I know. Can you imagine? We know what you're doing. This is like when a guy has to repeat the question in their answer to buy time to make up their lie. It's like, where were you last night? Like, where was I? You heard me, dancer. We're not. No, no, no. Where was I till three in the morning? Like, great question.

[Pat]

It.

[Whitney Cummings]

No, no, we're not doing that. And then this is so patronizing, but then there's like a. This cutting yourself off with pretending you're stopping a tangent that's too complicated for anyone to follow. It's like, yeah, and then what happens with the markets is, you know, derivatives, which will. That's. That's like another conversation for another day. Just this thing of I'm going to delay and delay all the impressive things so that I'm gonna blue ball you with all the genius I'm not gonna give you for a later time, but I kind of just made a plan to hang out again. So I'm also, like, your friend. Like, we're gonna hang out again like that. This is. I specialize in this, okay? This is what psychopaths do. It's like, you're too dumb to understand this, but you're my friend now, and I'm gonna see you soon, so we'll do it again later. And you're like, I love this guy. Like, he just can't say yes or no. It's like, so can you tell me about why you went to prison? He's like, well, you know, one time when I was a kid, my dad would take me fishing. And you're like, don't care. Don't care. No, thank you. No thank you. Don't want this story. Stop humanizing yourself.

I'm not.

Stop playing on the fact that we're wired for completion because now I'm on the edge of my seat now. Okay, fine. Just finish the story.

I gotta know how to end.

I'll sit through a bad movie because I gotta know the end. You know, like, he just cannot answer a question. I get. I get why this guy was able to. He's a. He's a dork. Billionaire's dream, right? I just, you know, I have to pick apart the psyche of an unavailable man. Haha. What if he's alive? Oh, God, if he's alive, everyone's like, where is he? If he's. He's on Raya. If he's alive, he's a creative director.

[Pat]

Yeah, he's a production designer.

[Whitney Cummings]

No, art director.

[Pat]

Oh, yeah. Art direct. Well, same diff.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah. He lives in Croatia.

[Pat]

Oh, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Copenhagen.

[Pat]

Designer. Knows how to draw blueprints.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay, guys, that's enough for today. Next week we're gonna be shiny, happy people. Love you guys. Don't write way all the fence.