Your Bank Account Has Mommy Issues with Mrs. Dow Jones

Summary

Good Guys Podcast (Dear Media)

Episode: "Your Bank Account Has Mommy Issues with Mrs. Dow Jones"

Date: April 27, 2026
Guests: Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones), with hosts Josh Peck & Ben Soffer

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, financial educator and personality Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones) joins hosts Josh Peck and Ben Soffer to unpack the psychology of money—how your upbringing shapes your financial habits, the role of generosity (and cheapskating), and what it means to be "rich" beyond dollars. Together they discuss generational shifts, relationship and gender dynamics around wealth, and why looking rich is not the same as being rich. The conversation is peppered with humor, personal anecdotes, and actionable financial advice drawn from Sachs' new book, "Future Rich Person."

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Financial Psychology: Childhood and "Money Issues"

• Ben’s Upbringing (00:46–04:19):

  • Ben describes his spending habits as a legacy from his generous father: “My dad was always more... very, very generous. Even when... he was always overly generous.”
  • Haley explains:

    "Your money habits are set by the time you are 7 years old...if you don't take the time to, like, unpack it...you just function as this kid, as an adult." (04:00)

• Josh’s Scarcity Mindset (14:38–15:41):

  • Josh shares he grew up with a single mom, vacillating between lower middle class and broke, shaping his sometimes "miserly" tendencies.
  • Haley expands:

    "You always feel like the floor is going to, like, come out from below you." (15:32)

2. Generosity vs. Cheapskating: Social Dynamics of Money

• Ben’s Dinners Dilemma (00:44–02:02):

  • He frequently pays for dinners with people much wealthier, questioning at what point generosity becomes financial foolishness.
  • “When does generosity cross over into financial, like, just like, idiots...is this a good place to start?” (02:02)

• Distaste for Cheapskating (04:19–05:00):

  • Ben and Haley agree that wealthy people being cheap is the worst: “If I know how much money you have...and you're cheap, that's the worst. The worst.” (04:49)

3. Navigating Friends & Relationships Across Income Levels

• Offering Within Your Means (05:12–06:08):

  • Josh recalls attending a luxury trip with wealthy friends: “I can't pick up the jet...but I could buy a $700 throw from the gift shop.”

• Value Beyond Money (06:08–06:52):

  • Haley:

    "You could have a lot of one thing, but it's a lot harder to have some of many...A lot of people focus on money, and they don't have relationships or friendships...Lonely billionaires...So having friends and having friends of different income levels, that's where it's at." (06:16)

• Transactional Friendships & The "Jester" Role (07:09–08:00):

  • Ben:

    "I've been told...that we are the entertainment for this group...that's an impossible way to actually build a real friendship...it feels very transactional." (07:13)

• Dating Dynamics—Money & Traditional Roles (08:46–09:59):

  • Haley: “Even if I have more money than you, I still expect you to pay for dates...I believe in things being fair, not equal.”

4. Financial Mindset & Practical Advice

• Financial Energy & What Actually Matters (15:26–17:09):

  • Haley introduces the idea of “financial energy”:

    “It runs out fast...so...put energy towards things that actually move the needle—not couponing or worrying about oat milk lattes—but, when did you last compare car insurance? Or negotiated your salary?” (16:08, 16:29)

  • Ben and Josh add practical examples: shop around for flights, check loyalty points, refinance, etc. (17:09–18:50)

• Debunking Bad Financial Advice (17:38–19:08):

  • The group calls out advisors like Kevin O’Leary and Suze Orman for “shame” tactics and focuses on making good money habits aspirational, not punitive.
  • Haley:

    “Let’s make it aspirational to grow wealth...you can have anything, but not everything—figure out where to maximize.” (19:09)

• Danger of “Manifesting” Money & Over-Spending (20:05–21:50):

  • Criticism of certain “financial experts”—Haley:

    “Telling people to spend over their means...so you feel rich...what good does that do? I don't think I'd feel rich if I went to Louis Vuitton and then was more in the red.” (20:42)

5. Convenience Spending & Subscription Creep

• The cost of delivery apps, subscriptions, and frictionless spending—Josh and Ben note how “little” charges add up, and the importance of a monthly “money date” to review finances. (21:51–26:13)
• Haley:

  “If you get charged for a subscription, just call them or email them...all of this stuff is negotiable.” (26:13)

6. Relationships, Roles, and Building Wealth

• Dating Red Flags (33:12–34:28):

  • Haley: “Bad tipper. Hate a bad tipper.”
  • She expects chivalry and ambition, not intimidation.

• Transactional vs. Partnership Marriage (34:54–38:55):

  • Discussion of dating/marrying for money versus partnership—Ben says:

    “The most expensive thing is marry someone you don't like for money.” (34:54)

  • Haley: “Other things have value besides money—I'd rather have a lot of many things than so much of one thing.” (38:05)

• Women’s Financial Progress (36:03–36:46):

  • Haley notes women couldn’t get credit cards until 1974.

    “This is one of the first generations of women where we really have the right to choose.”

7. Dating as a Public Figure & Social Media's Impact

• Haley describes the challenge of dating when you have a prominent online presence and the development of parasocial relationships. (42:12–43:54)
• Ben: “I don’t want to hear about [work] personally...if the first date is here's my LinkedIn, I think that sucks.” (44:41)

8. Biggest Financial Decisions

• Who You Marry Matters Most (43:05):

  • Haley:

    “Who you marry, that’s the biggest financial decision of your life—one plus one can really equal three.” (43:05)

• Early Marriage & Building Wealth (41:05):

  • Ben:

    “The number one way to build wealth is to get married early...me and Josh—both are 10, 15 years ahead of everyone in that.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Haley Sachs:

  “You can have anything, but not everything.” (19:09)
  “Looking rich instead of being rich, that's what are you, nuts?” (52:35)
  “Learned financial helplessness...is when you think everything is out of your control, so you give up and spend all your money on trying to look rich instead of be rich.” (52:39)

• Josh Peck:

  “You can't say the wrong thing to the right person, but you also can't say the right thing to the wrong person.” (44:02)

• Ben Soffer:

  “If I know how much money you have and you're cheap, that's the worst. The worst.” (04:49)
  “I think it's nuts that we're expected to learn so much early in life and then never encouraged to learn again.” (49:09)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:44 — Ben admits his financial flaws; dinner for billionaires story
• 04:00 — "Your money habits are set by 7 years old" – Haley
• 06:08 — Adding value in friendships beyond money
• 14:38 — Josh’s scarcity upbringing; financial psychology
• 16:08 — "Financial energy" concept; focus on needle-moving actions
• 19:09 — Making wealth-building aspirational, not depriving
• 20:05 — The danger of “manifesting money” advice
• 21:51 — Death-by-a-thousand-fees; subscription creep
• 25:11 — The “money date” concept for couples/monthly expense reviews
• 33:12 — Dating red flags: Bad tippers and cheapskates
• 36:03 — Women & credit cards; modern financial independence
• 44:02 — The “right person/wrong thing” principle in relationships
• 49:09 — Ben’s “What are you nuts?” about lifelong learning
• 52:35 — "Looking rich vs. being rich"—final theme

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Key Takeaways & Actionable Advice

• Unpack Your Financial Upbringing: Reflect on the money lessons you learned before age 7, as these shape adult behavior (04:00).
• Don't Sweat the Lattes: Focus your “financial energy” on big-impact items (insurance, salary, skills) over minor daily expenses (16:08).
• Check Your Social Spending Habits: Balance the value of generosity, but don’t let others take advantage—or let cheapskating define your relationships (02:13–05:00).
• “Money Dates” Are Essential: Regularly review monthly spending and subscriptions with your partner—catch financial leaks early (25:11).
• Beware the Illusion of Richness: Prioritize building real wealth rather than projecting it with unnecessary purchases or debt (52:35).
• Relationships Matter Most Financially: Who you marry or partner with will have more impact on your long-term wealth than most other choices (43:05).
• Learned Financial Helplessness: Don’t check out—many personal finance changes are in your control, even if the economy is tough (52:39).

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Where to Find More:

Haley Sachs' new book: mrsdowjones.com/book — Bonuses include tools and guides for building wealth (53:32).
Follow Mrs. Dow Jones: Instagram, TikTok, and her site for more accessible financial wisdom.

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This episode combines real-talk honesty, humor, and concrete financial tools for building a richer life—not just a richer bank account.

Transcript

[Josh]

Two Jews, both big and tall. No subject too small for the Good Guys. A Mother Stream premium podcast team. Make it your weekly routine. It's a Good Guys. And if you don't give us five stars. What are you, nuts? What are you nuts?

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

We're the good guys. We're not the great guys. We're just the good and good of the good guys. Whoa. Mazda. Martins. Welcome back to the Good Guys podcast. We are sitting here with Haley Sachs, her new book coming out, future Rich Person. I know you're feeling stressed. The money, it comes in, it goes out. You're not saving. Listen to Haley. Thank you for being here.

[Haley Sachs]

I'm so excited to be here. I'm the biggest fan.

[Ben]

Haley, you're. You're wonderful. Really. And, like, I've seen you TikTok here and Instagram there. We just had a nice 10 minutes. What a. What a lovely woman. Okay. Lovely woman. Let me tell you, I historically, have been the worst saver in the world. The worst saver in the world. My wife and I are polar opposite people. I'm lucky that I make a good enough living that it counteracts my horrific spending habits. But let me tell you, I go to dinner. This just happened to me, which is why I'm bringing it up. I went to dinner. Me, Claudia, and a couple. They're definitely billionaires. They have so much money and. Ask me why I paid for dinner. Ask me why I paid for dinner.

[Josh]

You're a macher.

[Ben]

No, I'm not. I'm not. I don't know.

[Josh]

What is it? How much was the bill? How much was the bill? Say it.

[Ben]

Say it.

[Josh]

Be garish.

[Ben]

1,200 gross. $1,200. But I didn't even know. It wouldn't have mattered if it was ten grand. My card was I went to Polo Bar.

[Haley Sachs]

Okay.

[Ben]

I went to Polo Bar.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. I mean, but I think it also is, like, the energy of it. You know what I mean? Like, you're at Polo, but so what else are you. What else do you overspend on?

[Ben]

I. I pick up every dinner for everyone ever.

[Haley Sachs]

You're. You're very generous.

[Ben]

Yes. But when does generosity cross over into financial, like, just like idiots crossing meshuggah. Is this a good place to start? I think this is a good place to start.

[Haley Sachs]

I think it's. I mean, first of all, we appreciate your transparency.

[Josh]

Yes.

[Haley Sachs]

And I think Josh and I can both agree that we would like to go to Polo Bar with you, sort of, before you make this switch, because, you know, then we can Ride the wind.

[Ben]

We can reap the benefits.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh]

Except when you go, Ben is going to be like, you know, it's horse themed. And you're going to be like, yes, Ben, we know.

[Haley Sachs]

Do you like to give, like, a history lesson while you're there?

[Ben]

No. You just can't get over that. Obviously, it's equestrian themed at Polo Bar, which is so true. It's like that, like, it's the, of course, it's the theme. That's the theme of the brand.

[Haley Sachs]

When you go there, do you sort of dress for that, you know?

[Ben]

No. I always think to myself, I should wear a nice tweed blazer. And then I remind myself that I'm just like, not that guy. I'm not a tweed blazer guy. I'll bring up, I'll send you guys a photo later of the one time I went to, like, a horse race and I wore this hat. I'm just, like, way too Jewish to be in that environment. Okay. Like, it just doesn't work.

[Haley Sachs]

It's true.

[Ben]

Like, I, I, I can't, I can't, I can't be something that I'm not.

[Haley Sachs]

You're not passing.

[Ben]

Well, I'm not passing.

[Haley Sachs]

When you were growing up, was, how was money in your household? Like, were people like, did your mom or your dad, like, did you sort of, like, think about generosity with wealth as, like, what it meant to have money?

[Ben]

My parents, like, worked really, really hard. My dad was always more. Very, very generous. Very generous. Even when, like, it wasn't. Not that he couldn't. He was always overly generous. I'll say that.

[Haley Sachs]

So your money. And you should think about this because you guys are raising kids and I talk about this in the book in future Rich person. But your money habits are set by the time you are 7 years old. Your relationship to money, so how your parents acted, how, you know, money function in your household if you don't take the time to, like, unpack it and, you know, that's why the first part of the book, I call it going to Ibiza. But it's, you got to work on your money mindset because you sort of have to unpack that or you just function as this kid, as an adult. That's what's happening. Not to be a doctor.

[Ben]

That's what's happening.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And I'm thinking to myself, I'd much rather be the type of person that I am than the opposite. Oh, I know that maybe I have less money in my pocket, but I think I'm a, I'm a More enjoyable person to be around. Like, I hate a cheapskate. Yeah, I hate it. And there's nothing worse than a cheapskate with money. Yeah, you can totally miss me. Like, I. If I know how much money you have, it means. Because you've told me, and then you're going to be fudgeing cheap. No, I can't be friends with somebody like that either. I should have no idea how much money you have. And then you're. You're. You're more than welcome to be cheap or generous or whatever you want, but if I know you've got it and you're cheap, that's the worst. The worst.

[Haley Sachs]

The worst. I always wonder that with, like, Lauren Sanchez, like, when you're her friend, like, is she. Like, let's go to the med spa, it's on me, like, Hermes. Like, who wants a Birkin? Like, it's like, she should.

[Ben]

I have to assume that it's like that.

[Josh]

But with rich friends, you have to offer within your means. I always talk about this. When Paige and I got married, the great John Stamos invited us on vacation for our honeymoon. Cool. And it was cool. It was a couple days, and we were going with our wonderful friends Glenn and Debbie, who happened to be very wealthy and the most philanthropic amazing, like, have built wings of hospital. They're the greatest. And they. We were all sort of going under their sort of tarp.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, okay.

[Josh]

Like, they were ushering us this beautiful trip to Cabo and private flying, the whole thing.

[Haley Sachs]

Wow.

[Josh]

Now, I can't match that. Right. But what we could do was that Debbie mentioned that she had seen something in the gift shop, this beautiful throw that was like six or seven hundred bucks. And I was like, go get it now. Like, Paige, go buy. Like. Yeah, like that. Or like, if we go out for a meal. Like, of course we would try to, even if it was only a couple hundred bucks, but it's like. Cause I can't pick up the jet.

[Haley Sachs]

You can't pick up the jet. But I also think that what you don't realize is that there's so much value in being the jester. Like, being the.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's me. Doesn't that define me? Yes.

[Haley Sachs]

You know what I mean? Like, because it's like, you don't. You could have all I say talk about this in the book, too, where it's like, you know, it's very easy to have a lot of one thing, but it's a lot harder to have some of. Of many things. And I think that it's like a lot of people just focus on getting money and then they don't have relationships, they don't have friendships. Like, there's like lonely billion Epstein. You know, it's like this end up there. It's like. It's like. So you have to having friends and having friends who are of different income levels, because those are always the more fun people. That's really where it's at. So you're adding value, but you have to make some.

[Josh]

You have to do. What do you guys think?

[Haley Sachs]

You have to. So you don't think you're using them.

[Ben]

Otherwise there's just no legitimate relationship, which is what you're talking about, Josh. Like, if you want to build like an actual friendship, which is difficult, certainly with somebody just in a completely different stratosphere of money. Like, if you want to be legitimate

[Haley Sachs]

friendships, let's talk about this. Do you think they're difficult?

[Ben]

Yeah, they're difficult because of what you just said, which has happened to me before. It's like, I've been told that, as has Claudia, that we are the entertainment for this group. That has happened before. Like, and that's an impossible way to actually build a real friendship. And maybe you don't need to be real friends. Maybe it can be a business working relationship. You can still have fun. But in order to build a real friendship, I don't think you can feel like a jester to what you just said. I think you have to. You can still be the funny friend, but if you're very aware that the reason they're keeping you around is for entertainment, you feel. It feels very transactional in a totally different way. And then that's just not a friendship, in my opinion.

[Haley Sachs]

But there's always a tr. Like, I feel like, you know, there's always some sort of trade off regardless, you know. But I. I do think that people do get really confused with only being friends with people of their tax bracket. And then they're like, oh, yeah, like I'm. You know, we go to the same place for vacation, or they like to go to the same Pilates, or they can afford to, like, go get matcha and their nails done. And it's like you miss out on so many good friendships, so you do have to, you know. And I think the same thing with dating. I date guys who have less money than me all the time.

[Ben]

Yeah, well, punching up is really boring.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. I also think that, like, the richer guys sort of want trad wives. And I'm like, that ain't me. You Know, like, they. And I get it. I'm like, like, okay, cool. Like, get. Get a woman to, like, run your whole life. But, like, that's. I'm never going to be able to do that.

[Josh]

Are men threatened because you have more money than them? When assuming that you've gotten past, you know, you're doing the first, second, third date. Do you. Do you find that as a bit of a sticking point? Because men are so weak and hollow.

[Haley Sachs]

They're so weak and hollow and not the good guys. Yeah, I think that it's not. I think it's more like. It's more on the table. Like, for most relationships, you talk about money when you get to big road bumps. So, like, we're gonna move in together, or we're getting a dog or we're getting married, and then that becomes the impetus to have that conversation. But I think that when you're dating someone who's a financial expert, it's, like, more on the table earlier. But I really believe in, like, chivalry and in men paying. So even if I have more money than you, I still expect you to pay for dates and, like, you know, like, all of that stuff. But then if I got to the point with someone where, like, we were buying a house or whatever, I would probably pay more for it, you know, But I. Because I believe in things that being fair, not equal.

[Josh]

Yes.

[Haley Sachs]

Like, $100 to me might be very different than $100 to you. So if I'm like, that's not fair.

[Josh]

Right.

[Haley Sachs]

You know, so. But if $50 to me feels like $100 to you, then that's how, you know, we should split things.

[Josh]

Like, I remember when I. When I met my wife, she was 20. I was 24, but I had, like, you know, thankfully had saved up some bread. Not much, you know, no residuals on good old Drake and Josh. But we had, you know, I had some dough, luckily. And I remember, I think we were dating, like, two or three months, and she got us, like, two nights with her best friend and her boyfriend, two nights in, like, Palm Desert at this, like, cute, like, not, like, crazy resort, but, like, lovely. And it was like, I knew that money, like, meant a lot to her because she was, like, working her ass off at this, like, little, like, online retail place. And I was like, this is. This means so much. And, like, I could have paid for 50 dinners after that, remembering that she, you know, treated us to this vacation.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, that's so nice.

[Josh]

They're not equal.

[Haley Sachs]

And then. Did you have to be the jester

[Josh]

yeah, well, welcome to my relationship. Hello, I'm the king and the jester. I pay and then I entertain. Super fair.

[Ben]

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[Josh]

Okay, so Ben has shared his financial sort of beginnings. Mine are different. I come from, like, a huge scarcity place because I had, like, a single mom. No, I mean, we. We vacillated from, like, lower middle class to very lower class to broke and then back.

[Haley Sachs]

Okay.

[Josh]

Because she was in sales, so like, sometimes she'd have a great year. And we were like, I was getting Nintendo 64 games and crushing it with some Jordans.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

And then sometimes I, like, had to call grandma and be like, grandma. She goes, oh, no, we need some money. But I. So now I. And I've been Critiqued on this before, and my wife will say it in a loving way, but, like, I'm f. Far from cheap. But I can be, like, scared and, like, miserly.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Like, I can get too obsessed with, like, the unimportant things. And so what do we think about that?

[Haley Sachs]

Well, I think that you. It's definitely from your childhood, of course. Like, you always feel like the floor is going to, like, come out from below you.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

And what you said is really interesting. And that's one of the terms that I coin in my book is financial energy. Because people, you know, we are. We all have finite amounts of energy every day that we can put towards things. I mean, I personally wake up every day and I'm like, I'm going to run a marathon. I'm donating to charity. Like, I'm like, starting a new hedge fund. Like, and then by 4pm I'm like, where's a cookie? And like, where's a bomb? Like, let's freaking go. Like, taking a nap. Like, it's like it runs out fast.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

And it's the same thing with your finances where it's like, you might, you know, read a finance book and be like, oh, my God, like, I'm. I'm going to do everything and, like, you know, I'm going to be perfect with my finances. And then like, you know, four days later, you forgot. It's like a diet, you know, you start strong and then it can go quickly downhill.

[Josh]

We can't really.

[Haley Sachs]

I know you guys are naturally thin, so. Yeah, we are. Sorry.

[Josh]

145. My whole life.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, same. But, yeah, financial energy is like putting your energy when you have that burst towards the things that will actually move the needle. So it's not like couponing or worrying about the avocado toast or the oat milk latte. It's like, hey, when was the last time that you compared rates on your car insurance? Because that actually saves people on average, 500 to $1,000 a year. Hey, when was the last time that you negotiated your salary? Hey, when was the last time that you, like, thought about what skills you have, you know? Oh, you're so scared of AI. What about taking a course on AI? Like, you know what I mean? Like, we get so scared about the little things, but you should focus on the things that will actually move the needle and bring you more wealth or cut down expenses in a more radical way.

[Ben]

I love doing it with cables because they're real things. Yeah. The cable bill is a real thing. I feel like people love Then you

[Josh]

ever call, like, Spectrum or Time Warner, whoever, and you go, yeah, I'm leaving. And they go, okay, what if we cut your bill in half? Yeah, you go, yeah, I'm still leaving. And they go, how about $2 a month? I'm like, it could be $2.

[Ben]

Yes, I know.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, but that's financial energy. Spending it to call them.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

And you guys are always driving.

[Ben]

Love to say, like, not to, like, call out a Kevin o', Leary, but he loves to say, like, stop getting Starbucks. Like, no, no, people deserve to have their fucking morning.

[Haley Sachs]

They want it.

[Ben]

Like, what you're saying, though, are real things that people just don't think about.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Like another thing that people don't think about, which Brian Kelly makes sure that people do think about. You know that there are people who are loyalists to an airline and loyal to a specific airport that they won't even check somewhere else.

[Haley Sachs]

No, my friend Anna Laura literally united in Newark, and I'm like, girl.

[Ben]

And it's just like, do you. Do you know that maybe you're spending an extra $700 or maybe there's a better time in New York? I know we have the real blessing of having multiple airports, but still, try checking another airline. Try checking another time. Try checking an airport 45 minutes away. You think it's a thousand dollars for round trip, it might be $200. So it's just like thinking, like, things like you're saying, thinking a little outside the box as to how you could just shave costs every day. I don't like when people say, though, don't get your coffee. Don't go out to eat, cook every meal. It's like, you should have fun. But it's like, there are ways to save money without that.

[Haley Sachs]

Well, I think, like, for me, what kept me from taking control of my finances for so long was. Was because I was impacted by advice like the Kevin o' Leary or, like, for women, it's always like, you have to, like, be meal prepping, and there's no more manicures for you.

[Josh]

Susie Orman.

[Haley Sachs]

Susie Orman, Shame on you. No designer bags. And I'm like, no. Like, I. Obviously, I'm never. Don't want to care about my finances because it means my life is going to suck. And so I'd rather ignore them because then I can. Even though I'm like, you know, got the wool over my eyes, I'm still able to, you know, live in a fun way. But that's why I started Mrs. Dow Jones was because I was like, no, let's make it aspirational to grow wealth. Like, it doesn't have to. It's aspirational to spend money, but let's actually make it aspirational to be good with money too, so your life doesn't have to suck. You can, like, you can have anything, but not everything. So it's like, oh, are you just about figuring out where you want to maximize and then. Yeah. Making sure that you're being smart about those bigger decisions.

[Ben]

Do you watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills?

[Haley Sachs]

Do I watch Real Housewives of Beverly Hills? Of course I watch it.

[Josh]

What she aspires to. Okay, so, yeah, so this.

[Ben]

So this Amanda. I forget Amanda's last name. What's her last name?

[Haley Sachs]

Knox.

[Ben]

Knox.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Ben]

This Amanda Knox.

[Josh]

Different Amanda. Fine.

[Ben]

Do you know Amanda?

[Haley Sachs]

I've not met her.

[Ben]

Okay.

[Haley Sachs]

Because that's what I'm saying. Like, she's not a real financial expert. Like, no. She ever been on cnn?

[Ben]

Not. She is. I literally watch this show.

[Haley Sachs]

She's a Charlotte.

[Ben]

She loves to say that the best. It's manifesting money. It's like, I hear her. I'm like, are you fudgeing nuts? Anybody that's buying this book and manifesting their money, they should listen to you.

[Haley Sachs]

Thank you.

[Ben]

Like, I don't, like, I just wanted to know your opinions on what feels like a snake oil salesman in this. Amanda pushing that the best way to grow your wealth is manifesting.

[Haley Sachs]

My biggest, like, issue with her is that she also tells you to spend money that you don't have. What? Fight. She's like, so you feel rich. I'm like, cool. So you're, You're. You're a financial expert who's telling people to get into debt to spend over their means. Like, no. Like, I don't think that I would feel rich if I, like, went to Louis Vuitton and got something and then, like, was more in the red. Like, what good does that do? I always think about, like, because we're obviously so affected by marketing.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Now, like, we're seeing, you know, debt levels climb so much. Record highs for Gen Z and Millennials. And so much of it is, I think, from how spending has become so frictionless. Like, you could be like, you know, on your couch half asleep and do Apple pay? Like, Apple be paying and buy, like, something that's $3,000 and they.

[Ben]

And these companies like a firm you could fucking go spend. Oh, I can put this $10,000 Tempur pedic over 15 years. I'm in. The people are fudgeing Doing that, they're going on luxury websites and they're buying handbags and taking five years to pay them off.

[Haley Sachs]

And by the way, you should never take a loan out for something that's not going up in value.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh]

But also, like, the one thing I. I'll push back on slightly. And I know you guys aren't exactly saying this, but it's like, I didn't use doordash delivery, like, any delivery food services if I could help it for years, right? Cause I was like, I'll pick it up. It's 25 bucks, right? And granted, you're burning time, right? So you have to decide what's more important, right? Your time or this $25 surcharge. But I see so many people our age and younger, these convenience charges that they think nothing of. And similar to like, the Starbucks of it all, though, like, those are the things that I think, those little $10 and $20 nothing things. But it's like, yeah, but you're doing 30 or 40 of those a month, and then suddenly they. They stack up, right?

[Haley Sachs]

100% and you're buying just subscriptions. You're not actually owning anything, right? No, I. That's such a good point. I think that's. I more meant, like, if you really, like, for me, I don't really care about getting a coffee. Like, I get so affected by caffeine. Like, I can have me. Like, I'll get it for vibes, and then it's like, I'm having three sips and I'm out. Because, like, something bad will happen.

[Josh]

But if you love a latte, enjoy it, buy it.

[Haley Sachs]

You are like, don't make it at home.

[Ben]

Sucks. What you're saying, Josh, which is very real, is the amount of money that I spend on instacart fees is a huge problem. The amount of money that I spend on Uber Eats fees, like that stuff. That definitely adds up for somebody who instacarts all the time. Like, I will look at. Okay, I don't have the time to do it, but Ruby needs a teether. I'll get a $13 teether at CVS that ended up costing me $25.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, that adds up for sure. But you also have to put a price on your time. Like, if you're going because you're being lazy. If you're not going because you're being lazy, that's one thing. But if you're not, like, for me, I have someone who cleans my house and does my laundry and, like, and I have an assistant and so it's like, you know, and I have somebody who helps me, my dog. Like these are all things where it's like, yeah, I walk my dog at night and in the morning, but during the day I'm in meetings all day. I don't have time to do that. So I'm making money. I'm making more money than it costs to walk him or like more money than it would. Like the. The value of my time is more than what I'm paying to outsource it. But the convenience charges are crazy and you really have to watch out for them.

[Ben]

What you're talking about though, is, is not impulse driven. What Josh is talking about and what I'm talking about are impulse driven decisions that I think are killing people. Like quietly killing people.

[Haley Sachs]

Do you think that you're doing it from a place of emotional regulation? Like when you do that for Ruby, is it because, like you're stressed, you feel like I'm a new dad? This is crazy. Like, okay, like I deserve to do this.

[Ben]

I'm doing it because I don't have time to go to CVS for sure. But I'm saying the average person, if they just at night, when their day has completely settled down, thought to themselves, what could I need tomorrow? And then went on Amazon and ordered these things ahead of time. At least on that side, the food thing, you could also prep like prepare your food or set apart time, as Josh said, to place the Uber eats order and go and pick it up. Like if you did that, it's a very small thing. Instead of having somebody deliver, you really do probably save, I don't know, depending on how much you order in, at least $100 a week.

[Haley Sachs]

That's why I really talk out in the book that you have to have a money date every month where you look like through how you're spending. Cuz most people don't. They just go on vibes. Like the. Like I'm. I know we're not allowed to talk about numbers, but like if I was to ask you and you don't have to answer like, okay, do you know, without adding any extras in, how much your life costs every month? Bare bones. Do you have that number?

[Josh]

General.

[Haley Sachs]

Do you have that number?

[Josh]

Ballpark?

[Ben]

No, I just know that it's a

[Haley Sachs]

lot and I know, but most people don't know.

[Ben]

I guess ballpark, but I, I don't know for sure.

[Haley Sachs]

So what I'm saying is you could have a time every month where you sit down, you do it with your wife and have a money Date where you then are looking through your expenses and seeing how you're spending. And it's not about, I know you are probably thinking, great, I get to cut back. Because it's like that.

[Josh]

Oh, I love it.

[Haley Sachs]

Roll up your sleeves.

[Josh]

Done, done, done, done.

[Haley Sachs]

You're like, ooh, like, let's definitely, let's move into a tent or something.

[Josh]

Like, can we find a cheaper pediatrician?

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

No, I'm kidding.

[Ben]

Let's move into a tent.

[Haley Sachs]

But more looking and to see, like, what spending habits do you have? Like, is it the sort of thing where you're looking and you're seeing. Okay, so many of these are impulse driven. Could I do an a bulk order of these teething toys? Because that's what's always like getting me with the instacart fees and then, you know, planning for that for the next month. But I also always find like, subscriptions that I need to cancel. Which by the way, guys, if you get charged for a subscription, just call them or email them. Like, even if it charged you last week, if you just like, it's. All of this stuff is negotiable. Like, we get so concerned that, like, oh my God, it's like we're in trouble with the law. You're not, like, you can just tell the company, but it's just, you need a time to review your finances. It's so important because money's a relationship. And if you were, you know, you've been with your wife for so many years, if you guys never went on dates or like, talk to each other, wouldn't be a good relationship.

[Josh]

Sure.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. Most people don't have that with their money.

[Josh]

I mean, even more so I, I have a friend who does like quarterly. Goes to see a marriage counselor quarterly. Because he says, and this is his theory, but I think it's pretty smart. He goes, look in the eyes of California, all my wife and I did was incorporate. Like, we started a business.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Like, getting a marriage is just starting a business in California. He goes, and so us having these quarterly check ins with a marriage counselor is like us having a board meeting. Yeah. And going for the business of the so and so family. What are our goals? What do we want to work on? What do we want to make better? I was like, that's pretty good. I won't do it. But that's pretty good.

[Haley Sachs]

That's so smart. I love that. Yeah, that's really, really good. Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh]

I can't, I don't want to bring it up with my wife.

[Ben]

I don't want to bring it up either, but it's. But it's the same exact way that I feel about once a month looking at my. I don't. I don't want to look at anything like, I guess, because I. I pay. I pay quarterly taxes, so I know how much I need to save. I have. I put 50 aside every check. It just stays there. And that's the way that I live my life. Like, I don't.

[Haley Sachs]

You said the rest on billionaire dinners.

[Ben]

I don't. Yes, exactly. I don't want to look at, like, I don't want to do a debrief. That doesn't sound.

[Haley Sachs]

I want to do a debrief of your finances because I guarantee if you gave me 15 minutes, I could save you probably 400 to a thousand dollars just because I know. I'm sorry, babe, but you've got it written all over you. You are def. Paying for subscriptions that you forgot about. He's got buses and other area codes.

[Ben]

I do know that he's got two can.

[Josh]

Claudia on the shows.

[Ben]

I have two canvas that I know

[Haley Sachs]

for sure because I might even. 3. I'm sure you got Adobe. You don't even know how to use Adobe.

[Ben]

Yeah, I might. I might have. I have some subscriptions. I do. I shed a bunch of them. My wife is like the most financially literate person in the entire world. I need to talk. Nobody spends her money more carefully than Claudia. She's so smart. So smart. So she'll randomly say to me, hey, you know, like, if you go into Apple and you go to Settings, you should really just, like, check and make sure that you're not subscribed to these things. So she, like, keeps you on the street and narrow. She does. Otherwise, yeah, I would. I would have multiple HBO Max accounts, multiple Netflix accounts, because I've signed. Oh, I don't know the login. Let's sign up again. I've had that before. This episode of the Good Guys podcast is brought to you by our friends at Zyzol. Folks, you know Zyzol. You know that over the counter medicine with the cute little owl that helps you relieve allergies for 24 hours. Folks, Zyzol allergy. 24 hour relief leaves allergies while you sleep, so you wake up refreshed for a productive next day. There's nothing worse than having allergy flare ups. Okay? But taking Zyzole at night so you can get symptom relief and wake up feeling refreshed is the future Zyzol. Starts working in as little as 45 minutes and is clinically proven to relieve allergy symptoms for 24 hours. Zyzole relieves allergy symptoms including sneezing, runny nose, itchy, watery eyes, and itchy nose and throat for 24 hours. The itch is the worst. Oh, my God. Those itchy eyes, that itchy throat. Literally. My wife looking at me as I'm clearing my throat, she's like, why don't you take Zyzol? I'm like, I should. You're absolutely right. Plus, it provides 24 hour prescription strength relief from outdoor allergens such as pollen, ragweed, grass, and trees. I'm always around ragweed. You know, I need protection from ragweed and so do you. Folks. Zyzol Allergy 24 hour relieves allergies while you sleep, so you wake up feeling refreshed for a productive next day. There's nothing worse than having allergy flare ups. Okay, folks, be wise. All take Zyzol at night. This episode of the Good Guys podcast is brought to you by our friends at Zenni. Folks, glasses are tough. You know, one day you love them, the next day they're scratch. The next day you're questioning, is this the right prescription for me? Maybe your glasses are falling down your face. Maybe you need to tighten the screws. I don't know, maybe they're smudged. Mine are always smudged. Why are we putting these things off? Even in 2026, replacing glasses feels like a whole production. So most of us just live with it, including me. You've got to schedule an appointment, pay a fortune, then wait, Then they come. You ordered the wrong thing, the wrong size. Zenny Optical fixes all of that because Zenni is an online eyewear shop. Prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, starting at under $30. You heard that, right? Under $30, you go to zenni.com, pick a frame, upload your prescription, and they ship it to your door. No appointment, no store, no upsell at the counter, no nothing. Okay? And at that price, something kind of shifts you. Stop asking, do I really need new glasses? And start asking, why wouldn't I just get them? Why wouldn't you get more than one pair under $30? You're not agonizing over one pair. That has to do everything for the next two years. Get ones that work for you. Get the fun ones. Get the pairs that only match one outfit at under 30 bucks, you don't have to justify it. With over 150,000 reviews, folks, five stars. Okay? Because that's what we do.

[Haley Sachs]

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[Ben]

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[Josh]

So what are your. Like being on the dating scene in New York and being such a formidable, strong, powerful woman?

[Haley Sachs]

Yes.

[Josh]

What are. What are. What red flags do men give you where you go like, oh, you're gonna not. Like, if we are not financially aligned. We're not like, just, yeah, let's go there. Come on.

[Haley Sachs]

Bad tipper.

[Ben]

Ooh, yeah.

[Josh]

Hate a bad tipper.

[Haley Sachs]

Hate a bad tipper. Yeah. Like, I think that anyone who. If someone invites you out, which, like, in a. I'm pretty traditional in, like, courtships, like, I'm not gonna, like, go after a guy. Like, it's like, I will. I want to be pursued just because I'm like. I feel like that's sort of human nature, you know, like, you give people hints that you like them. Of course. Yeah, exactly.

[Josh]

Spread the fence.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. But I'm not gonna be like, hey, like, let's go on our first date. Like that. I was just. I don't think I would do that. Anyone who is not supportive of, like, career, because obviously, like, I want to keep working. I, like, have built something I'm really passionate about, and that makes a lot of money. And so I'm like, Like, I want to keep doing that. And so someone. Not someone who's like, you know, intimidated by that. Oh, I went on a date with this guy. He was at Indian Prince. He was the fricking worst. Shoved his tongue down my throat. Almost threw up. I cried after.

[Josh]

I was like, on your first kiss?

[Haley Sachs]

It was the worst. That was the worst case of my life. And he still texts me, like, trying to network. I'm like, leave me alone.

[Josh]

But is he a part of the. On Bonnie family?

[Haley Sachs]

He was like, Jason, like, that's what the wedding would have been.

[Josh]

I mean, it was just worth it.

[Ben]

Suck it up.

[Josh]

Can we be in the wedding? Me and Ben?

[Haley Sachs]

Yes.

[Josh]

I wanted AP watch.

[Haley Sachs]

Everyone got diamond bracelets. I know. And that is sort of the question you have to ask yourself, but it's the most expensive thing, is to marry someone you don't like for money.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

I was at the Knicks. I was at the playoffs the other night and there was this gorgeous girl, Miu Miu jeans, little tiny Hermes bag, model, the whole thing. With the grossest guy, the grossest oldest guy.

[Ben]

And I was like, maybe he had a big heart. You don't know. Maybe he's funny, sweetie pie.

[Haley Sachs]

He didn't seem funny enough.

[Ben]

Maybe he had a big hog.

[Haley Sachs]

He's got a big hog. That's fair. I saw. I did see his dick. It was huge. But.

[Josh]

Yeah, but don't you think those two deserve each other?

[Haley Sachs]

Yes, for sure. Because she values the same things that he does.

[Josh]

It's a transaction.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, transactional. But I guess I just wouldn't say I don't want to be in a transactional relationship.

[Ben]

Well then. Well then I think you also need to be comfortable dating below because I have to tell you, most of the guys above are not as fun.

[Haley Sachs]

Right?

[Ben]

The guy, like. Yeah, like, I much prefer to be friends just from a friend's perspective with normal people. Yeah, normal people are really fun people that are like super rich and super extra. They're fun for like a minute and then you realize that there's nothing real about them. Yeah, nothing. And so if you're thinking about like a long term relationship, somebody that you want to marry, you want a real person.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, I want like someone to be my kid's dad. Like, it's like I'm gonna, you know, like. Like that's what I'm solving for. Less than, like. And. But that's why I think it's so I'm. We're like, I'm the first. This is like one of the first generations of women where we really have the right to choose. Like, women didn't have credit cards till 1974. You basically had to get married to have any sort of upward mobility.

[Ben]

That's so crazy.

[Haley Sachs]

It's so 1974. That's like recently.

[Josh]

Who was the first Discover? Discover card gave women their rights.

[Haley Sachs]

Thank you, Discover.

[Josh]

Yeah. Shout out.

[Haley Sachs]

Love you guys. You did good work for us. Thank you. They helped us discover our financial independence.

[Josh]

That's fun. That's a good campaign.

[Haley Sachs]

Thank you. Yeah, maybe they'll pick that Up. But I think that it's such a privilege to be able to look. Not for money.

[Josh]

Yes.

[Haley Sachs]

Not that I could be with someone who didn't make money, but, like, just someone who has an impact. Like. Okay, I'll give you an example. My sister is a colorectal surgeon, lesbian surgeon, in. In Boston.

[Josh]

It's a lot of hemorrhoids.

[Haley Sachs]

It's a lot of hemorrhoids. Yeah.

[Josh]

Thank God. No, no, thank God. One ailment I don't have. But it was funny because our wonderful neighbors. One was a colorectal surgeon.

[Haley Sachs]

Oh, really?

[Josh]

And I remember being like, wow, you're a surgeon. That's so incredible. And he goes, it's a lot of hemorrhoids.

[Haley Sachs]

Yes.

[Ben]

Like, Nicky.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. It's. I'm like, why did we have to choose that one? Like, you couldn't have done plastics.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Like, come on. I could have really benefited from that.

[Josh]

They don't have one of those on the pit.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, exactly.

[Josh]

They're not really showcasing them.

[Haley Sachs]

We need. That's the spin off, I think. Okay. But she got. She works. She's been in her training to be a colorectal surgeon for 15 years. She's now in her fellowship. She's almost 30. She's 37. They just had their first kid, but she's like, not home. Like, she's, you know, working all the time towards this career. And her wife is amazing, but doesn't earn as much as her at all, but picks up everything in the house and, like, taking care of the kid while he is working. So. You know what I mean? Like, it's a partnership.

[Josh]

It's everything.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. And that has. It's the same way, like, having friends who have less money than you, but who have, like, really great personalities or, like, you know, really cool points of view or whatever. Has value. Other things have value besides money.

[Josh]

Right.

[Haley Sachs]

Like, I'd rather have a lot of many things than so much of one thing.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

I always talk about it with my wife. Like, she is. She works for sort of on an ad hoc, like, one off. She went to design school. So if someone needs help with a logo or interior design or a fashion thing, she's great. But she doesn't have the nine to five. And with my work, like, I could be like, babe, I gotta go for like two weeks. Yeah. And just the balance, it wouldn't work if she had something that was. Or it would just be. We would have to have a lot more help. And I think that would impact the kids. So it's such A blessing. And it's like my. And it feels totally equal that by me being able to bring home a source that keeps us sort of. Yeah. Going solvent. Then she can do that and our kids benefit. But I do want to go back really quick and ask when, Ben? When you said date down. So you tell me because you're a tall queen.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, yeah. I'm like 5 11, but I wear heels. So it's like I'm like about 65 today. Just kidding.

[Josh]

Well, my sister in law, 6 1. They're all. Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Okay.

[Josh]

Volleyball.

[Haley Sachs]

Wow.

[Josh]

Amazing women. And. And we made some joke once about like about how she would have never dated me. And I'm like, first of all, you're missing out.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

I'm like, why? Because I'm 5 11. I'm like, listen. I'm like, you're nuts. I'm like, you're going for these six five plays.

[Haley Sachs]

They do.

[Josh]

I'm like me, I appreciate. I would have crawled right up.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Went for a smooch.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. But she got on your ladder.

[Josh]

Yeah. Right.

[Haley Sachs]

So we like shorter kicks to get Tom Cruise lifts.

[Josh]

Are we okay with a five nine guy who's got it all going on? It's tough.

[Haley Sachs]

Five nine. When you start at five eleven. Now it's like you're going to five four. That's.

[Josh]

Well, you said you're five' eleven, so

[Haley Sachs]

I'm five eleven on my hinge. It does say five ten, but you know, we all lie a little. I like my same height would be my favorite flavor. I also care about their bodies. Like if they're like. Like I did this guy who is so frail and I was like, like, no, like you can't be like. So like that's like as much like so many weight issues. Like, no, like you can't be like, it's like more petite than me.

[Josh]

That's not a hardy boy.

[Haley Sachs]

Not fat, but like go to the gym, you know, a little fat, like that's fine.

[Ben]

I'd rather more meat than perfect body. Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Just medium. No. But also like, I really like eating. So it's like if someone is not passionate about food, you can, you know, that's important too.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

But yeah, it's hard. I think as you get older though, that sort of goes away. We all start. I mean, it's actually amazing you found your wife. Both of you found your wives when you were so young. Those were the days where you really could just like, like dream big, you know. By the time you're 34 and you're single, you're like, oh, they've got a pulse. Oh, well, I mean, they're. They're not yet five feet, but, you know, they. They're nice.

[Josh]

Yeah. They're breathing.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. Breathing is huge.

[Ben]

Yeah. I can't recommend finding your spouse early more.

[Haley Sachs]

But you were focused. How'd you have that focus? Like, I was just being so. I didn't have that mentality.

[Ben]

I think that it takes the woman to have that mentality. First and foremost. Clawd had that mentality. We met and it was just, like. It was very, very clear that, okay, like, if we're. If we're dating, then I. I have to want to marry you. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm not dating you. Otherwise, I'm not dating you. So I think she set the tone for sure. It's funny, I don't know if you talk about this in your book, but I think the number one way to build wealth is to get married early. Because otherwise you're spending all of your time looking for a spouse.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And spending it trying to date and entertain and woo. And then all of a sudden, like, I. I'm. Me and Josh. Both are 10, 15 years ahead of everyone in that, like, if you don't get married until your mid-30s.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. It gave you so much stability.

[Ben]

Yeah. And it gave you, and, like, immediately a person that's championing you towards collective goals. I love somebody that is, like, competing with you or I think. Yeah. I mean, that's super helpful. I can't even imagine fucking trying to date. What. Like. Of course.

[Haley Sachs]

So hard now, though, dating, too, as someone with, like, an online presence, because you're like. Like, you want someone to get to know you, but it's so easy to have a parasocial relationship with you, you know?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

So it's almost like. I feel like I'm almost evasive about it. How would. How do you think that I should go about it?

[Ben]

How old are you?

[Haley Sachs]

Am I allowed to ask that question? Yeah, you can ask. Yeah.

[Ben]

34.

[Haley Sachs]

Very old.

[Ben]

Okay, so me too. We're both 34.

[Haley Sachs]

92. 91.

[Ben]

We're old. We're old. You're not old. I'm old. You're not old.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, I don't think I'm old yet.

[Josh]

December.

[Haley Sachs]

July.

[Josh]

Great. Cancer.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, Cancer. So important.

[Josh]

So say more about the parasocial part of it. Because you think people find you online and they develop what they think you are, and then they meet you in person and it's a different thing.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, it's like, well, yeah, maybe I need to, like, Like, I'm so proud of what I built, and I, like, I'm obsessed with being Mrs. Dow Jones. I want to do it forever. And it's like, that's, that's like a soulmate that I found early on was my career.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

But now I'm looking and, and I, I talk about this in the book where it's like you and you guys sort of are speaking to this as well, where who you marry, that's the biggest financial decision of your life, because one plus one can really equal three. And finding something that you can communicate about money with, who you can have money dates with, who spends in a way that's, you know, aligned with you. Like, these are all so important to getting ahead, becoming a future rich person. But I think that for me in dating, when I'm early dating someone, it's like, I'm early dating someone right now, and it's like, I feel like I'm being such a freak about my work and, like, he's being normal about it, but I'm being, like, elusive and, like, sketchy and like, I need to, like, I'm like, do I get like a pen and paper and map out? Like, this is what I do, you know? Like, I don't know.

[Josh]

I think, I think it reveals itself. I have a really corny saying when people sort of obsess on, oh, what should I text back?

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Oh, God. It's like, you can't say the wrong thing to the right person.

[Haley Sachs]

That's nice.

[Josh]

But you also can't say the right thing to the wrong person. So I think that it reveals itself over time. My wife and I were. I was 24. She was 20. Like, I was like, like, after nine months of dating, like, we broke up for a quick stink. So I was like. Because I was like, we fight too much. It's over. She's like, bet, see you in six months. And she sure did.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, she did.

[Josh]

But it was like, because I was only equipped with the, the skills of a mid 20something knucklehead dude. So I don't know what it is. I think it's really hard to push away the right person if. As long as it's not induced by alcoholism or like something like, glaringly awful. But if it's just you, if, if it's like a little, you know, you're going through a wonderful career moment and so you're not as available as maybe you'll be down the road, that's cute.

[Ben]

I also don't think that they want to hear about Your career necessarily, though. Like, I don't. When I'm making a friend, that's the only way that I can compare this.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, I'm making a friend.

[Ben]

Okay. If that friend is just talking to me about work, I'm networking and I'm now at a work. And now I'm at a work dinner.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. You want to have fun with the

[Ben]

person, a real friend that you're meeting. Like, think about when you were like, actually in the zone of making friends. What were you, 16?

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Is like the, like, like you, you. You became friends on shared hobbies, you became friends on. Because they made you laugh and they were funny or their friend's dad was rich or like, I don't know, like, if the first date is. Here's my LinkedIn. I think that sucks. Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah, Definitely.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I don't want to hear that personally.

[Haley Sachs]

No, no, no, I agree. I definitely don't do that. But then I'm like, like, at what point should they follow you? Like, you know what I mean? Because sometimes, like, how I post is just so, like, I feel like I have like four followers. But then I'm like, ooh, there's. But I like, like just posting whatever, you know, sort of shit posting. Because that's fun.

[Josh]

You're also a great close friends post. That's all I'll say.

[Haley Sachs]

Thank you.

[Josh]

I am very happy.

[Haley Sachs]

I'll put you on there. Too bad.

[Josh]

Shout out, please. Like, this is fun. I'm like, and if she made a mistake and this went on the main

[Ben]

feed, it'd be over right now.

[Josh]

I'm kidding.

[Ben]

What about, like, I don't know if he's dating someone right now. Not that we, like, need to like, pick people, but, like, is Jason Tardick dating someone now? Is he like a good person? Do you like, like a media, like a personality? He's the nicest guy. And he financially literate.

[Josh]

That seems like too much of the same, though.

[Haley Sachs]

No, no, he's. But he also found he had such an interesting road with his love life because he and I related to it, where he, like, got everything he wanted, career wise. He's like, I got these bestselling books, my podcast is doing great, everything's stable, but I just don't have that person. And then he met her and now they, like, just bought a house together in Nashville.

[Josh]

Wow.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Haley Sachs]

Oh, he's.

[Ben]

He's gone. Yeah, he's out.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah. Yeah, he's. I didn't realize, but that, I mean, I think that, that I could do. I maybe, but maybe too Similar.

[Josh]

Yeah. That's a lot of.

[Haley Sachs]

But do you think that there needs to be a rock and a star? Because, like, in your relationship, it's two stars. In your relationship, it sounds like it's rock and star.

[Josh]

It's. It's a hybrid.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I think that, at least for me, it. We. We both met. I mean, Claudia's been a. A star since she's zero. Like, it's, like, in her personality to be a star. But in terms of when we met, we met as at 20 and 18. Just, like, literally, like babies. Right. So I think that now for you, I feel like it might be easier to go star and star. You just have to meet a great star, but somebody that. I think it's gonna be really, really hard for you to be the full, authentic version of you with the way that you post, but also have a regular guy who probably, like, passively shits on social media is like, I'll never Instagram account.

[Haley Sachs]

Why is it a flex?

[Ben]

I'm like, it's because it's. It's an either or. Yeah. Like, with guys, it's an either or either. You are, like, so proud of the fact that you don't even know what social media is.

[Josh]

Which. Get over yourself.

[Haley Sachs]

Yeah.

[Ben]

100. 100.

[Haley Sachs]

So you're missing out on.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Yeah, like. Like that.

[Josh]

Oh, you're allergic to.

[Ben]

Yeah, no, it's funny. People love that. And they're also always l. Lying. It's like, oh, my. My sister's cousin loves you. It's like, you have no idea who I am, but you approach me on the street like, what are you even talking?

[Haley Sachs]

Crazy? Yeah. Unhinged. So many people will put like, don't. Don't mind if I never have Instagram. And I'm like, okay, pass.

[Josh]

By the way, like, the most fun follows on social media are like, that Idaho rancher, right? Like, the random who isn't. Like, I love when people like, I don't have cable or social media. I'm like, hon, you live on 34th and Park. Yeah. Like, who are you kidding? Like, oh, so you live in the most accessible, bustling city on earth, but, like, you're rejecting all versions of technology.

[Haley Sachs]

No, it couldn't be us. Couldn't be us.

[Josh]

So our what do you nuts Moment of the week are gripes with people, places and things. Love both big and tall. Whatever's sticking in your craw, Ben, you got one?

[Ben]

Yes, I do. And it's very apropos to our conversation today. I think it's nuts that we are Expected to learn so much so early in life and then never encouraged to learn again. So Claudia and I recently started watching just the most unbelievable documentary on the founding of New York. It's a PBS documentary. It's called New York the Documentary Rick Burns. This is seven parts, two hours a piece. It's a monster. Okay, I'm only on episode two. The amount that I've learned, like, also another Woody and Nuts is the fact that we live in these states. We're taught American history, not the history of our own state. Okay, that's another Woody and Nuts. But the fact that, like, I want to learn today. I want to go to school today. I don't want to go to school 5 years old to 22 years old, every single day for 10 hours a day. I want to go to school for an hour a day. My entire life. Two hours a day, my entire life. So I just think it's a little nuts. Like how we. We expect people to change their minds, but they don't learn anything. They just like doom scroll, catch an opinion and then complain about it forever. Like, no, go fucking learn something. What are you nuts?

[Haley Sachs]

What are you nuts?

[Josh]

My Woody Nuts is recently I was on the TikTok and they're. They were promoting the Paid to promote feature. And it's this influencer going like, man forever. All my videos were getting less than 100 views. But since I use Paid to promote, I'm getting those thousands of views I've been looking for. I'm like, yeah, dog, you paid for it. Yeah, that's how that works. Do you have one?

[Haley Sachs]

I know. I'm like, okay, take your time. Okay, well, is it. Let me look.

[Josh]

I always closing the straight of hormones. So we all have to pay off that.

[Ben]

Mine was like rather philosophical and nature.

[Haley Sachs]

Normally, I think we're both jealous of yours.

[Ben]

Normally, it's like you're on a plane, like. Like you see like the woman in front of you, she's eating a piece of salmon here. What are you nuts?

[Haley Sachs]

Okay, I have one. I have one.

[Josh]

Okay, you give yours. I will be right back.

[Ben]

I have to take.

[Josh]

I've had to pee for 45 minutes. I'll be right back.

[Haley Sachs]

You go, what are you nuts? Instagram face. Okay, like, I think that we're getting confused about optimizing for beauty versus just trying to look like we went to the doctor and were able to afford fillers. But this is very historical. Like in ancient Greece, everyone wanted to be fatter because it meant that you had money for extra resources. Or in the 20s, when everyone was working in factories, being tan was really like, something that people wanted because it meant that you had the money to go on vacation. And so now I think that that version is injecting yourself. And I'm all about yossifying and looks maxing. Don't get me wrong. Like, women make 30% more if they look good. And I'm all about making more money. And if you, like, if there's a way to get there faster, do it. But ask yourself the question, am I doing this because actually, like, it's making me look better, or do I want people to just see that I am able to afford this because then it makes me look like, you know, I'm rich?

[Ben]

Yeah. What are you, nuts? The idea of looking rich is. The idea of being rich is a woody and nuts.

[Haley Sachs]

Maybe that's what I should make mine. That's good, because I do really feel passionate about that.

[Ben]

Wait, I think that we got there. I think that we got there. It's looking rich.

[Haley Sachs]

Okay.

[Ben]

Yeah. Looking rich instead of being rich. That's already a nuts.

[Haley Sachs]

So what are you, nuts? Financial nihilism. Yes. What are you, nuts? Learned financial helplessness, which I talk about in the book, which is when you think that everything is out of your locus of control. So you give up and do things like spend all your money on trying to look rich instead of be rich. You ignore your finances. You don't invest. You think we're on a floating rock. The world is burning. No need to try. But really, even though, yes, we are in a very different world economically than our parents, things are harder. The job market, AI student, debt, all these things, there's still opportunity. You have to look for it. So, you know. Yeah. Learn financial helplessness. What are you, nuts? You. There's still so much opportunity to get rich. That's why you need to get future rich person, because I give you those opportunities. Yeah.

[Ben]

Get off your ass. That's another thing. Yeah, yeah. And go buy the book. Okay, so where can we find you? Tell us. We spoke about the book. But where can we buy the book?

[Haley Sachs]

The book [e-mail] book and you get $700 worth of freebies when you buy it. This, I think, is coming out May 12, or it's coming out my pub week.

[Ben]

Wait, what does $700 worth of freebies mean? What does that mean?

[Haley Sachs]

So, like, you get my free generational wealth builder. Well, it's not free. You got my generational wealth builder. You get my credit card rewards guide with, like, a list of all the cards to get. You get a full, like, budgeting template. You get an AI. Like, all this AI information. Like, basically everything that you need to win in 2026, you get with the book. Like, I'm like, the book. Book pays for itself. But also, I will just say, if you've never read a finance book before, but you like a podcast, like a Good Guys or the Toast or any of these, like, this is the book for you because it's fun. You'll be able to read it, but it's going to be like brownie with the spinach in it, where you're. There's so many slab stories. There's so many real stories. There's so much about my life. But then it's also the best financial information for 2026. These are not the rules that our parents use. It doesn't work in the world that we're in now. So I'm really excited for you guys to get it, and I think that it's going to change your life. Finance books change my life. I'm a living proof.

[Ben]

You really?

[Josh]

I. Yeah, no, no, I was just going to say, Haley, I've listened to you. I was actually introduced to you on the great Robbie Hoffman's podcast. Because I love her. I love. She's the greatest. Yeah, but you really. You practice what you preach. Thank you. We talked about the great Brian Kelly before here. Like, I. I think of you in the same way. I think of him as like. Like these people who are offering these strategies and ways to win for free in an accessible, millennial, ish, Gen Z ish way. And I just think everyone's crazy not to get the book. Go get it, future rich person.

[Haley Sachs]

Thank you for having me on.

[Josh]

Thank you for coming on, Ben.

[Haley Sachs]

If you have any stars for me, let me know. I'll give you my number.

[Ben]

I will. Absolutely. Folks, this episode's five stars. Otherwise, what are you, nuts? Listen to us wherever you get your podcast, especially Spotify, okay? The video on Spotify. This is unbelievable. Okay? You go on Spotify, you scroll down. You're not only listening, you're watching. Okay? You can see us. You're on the train. The person over your shoulder, they're breathing heavy on you. You feel them, but you know they're watching the video while you're watching the video, because it's so captivating. So watch us on Spotify. Watch us on YouTube Mondays and Thursdays, folks. We will see you next time.

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