Ina Garten

Summary

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Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Episode: Ina Garten

Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Amy Poehler
Guest: Ina Garten
Special Guest Appearance: Julia Louis-Dreyfus

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Episode Overview

In this lively and heartfelt episode, Amy Poehler invites culinary icon Ina Garten to the studio. The conversation oscillates between laughter, personal stories, career pivots, relationships, and kitchen wisdom. Special pre-interview input comes from mutual friend and comedic legend Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who brings sunshine, hats, and pressing sorbet questions. Over strawberries and prosecco (and the gift of a fake roast chicken), Amy and Ina discuss food, joy, authenticity, marriage, work, and the power of deciding what sort of life you want to lead—at any age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Julia Louis-Dreyfus’ Cameo & Gift Exchange

• [00:41 - 11:42] Julia joins remotely to set the stage with questions and stories about her friendship with Ina.
  • The crucial questions for Ina:
    • "Why are you so cheerful?" [05:17]
    • "What puts you in a bad mood?" [05:19]
    • Sorbet troubleshooting: "What do I add to make my sorbet less icy and more creamy?" [07:59]
  • Julia and Amy riff on sun protection, friendship, and couples-dining dynamics.

Notable Quote:

Julia Louis-Dreyfus [05:19]:
"Seriously, why are you so cheerful? And also, what puts you in a bad mood? I'd like to know what really puts Ina in a bad mood."

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2. Ina Garten Arrives – Generosity & Community

• [12:14 - 15:01] Ina gifts Amy a life-sized fake roast chicken, sparking joy and discussion on how food builds community.
  • The roast chicken symbolizes Ina’s cooking philosophy: simplicity, warmth, and bringing people together.

Notable Quote:

Ina Garten [14:39]:
"It's about when you cook. Everybody shows up, and then you create a community around yourself... and that’s a really important thing that we all need."

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3. Breakfast Routines & Prosecco Parties

• [15:01 - 19:38] Shared love for simple breakfasts (French buttered toast, coffee, and then tea), and Harry’s Berries strawberries paired with morning prosecco while recording.
• Amy and Ina bond over preferring savory to sweet, and about the magic of perfectly ripe fruit.

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4. Upbringing, Food Trends, and Learning to Cook Later in Life

• [19:43 - 23:01] Ina grew up with a health-conscious, carb-fearing, dietitian mother in Brooklyn, influencing her approach to food and simplicity.
• Amy discusses coming to cooking late, inspired by others learning new things later in life, and Ina's empowering influence.

Notable Quote:

Amy Poehler [22:41]:
"You are good. You're interviewing me. Wait a minute..."

Ina Garten/ referencing Jennifer Garner [23:15]:
"As you get older, you’re not willing to try new things because you’re afraid of failing."

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5. The Jeffrey & Ina Love Story

• [23:35 - 28:14] Meeting as teenagers, marrying at 20, and building a partnership rooted in mutual respect, fun, and autonomy.
  • They have no children or pets, making life simple and focused on each other.
  • The importance of choosing someone who genuinely wants to be with you.

Notable Quote:

Ina Garten [27:31]:
"Are they a good person? Do they want to take care of you? And... does he want to be with you?... That’s the thing about Jeffrey—he just follows me around the house."

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6. White House Years & Career Pivots

• [30:06 - 34:02] Ina’s surprising earlier career: working in the White House on energy policy and enriched uranium during the Ford and Carter administrations.
  • Feeling stifled by bureaucracy, she sought more tangible, joyful work—leading to buying the Barefoot Contessa store.
  • Encouragement from Jeffrey: "Pick something fun, pick something you think you'd love doing." [33:19]

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7. Running Barefoot Contessa & Leadership

• [36:01 - 39:23] Leadership lessons as a boss: collaboration, clarity, and the difference between public praise and private criticism.
• Learning to fire employees with compassion—and sometimes too gently.

Notable Quote:

Ina Garten [36:01]:
"I always wanted to be the boss that I wanted to have myself."

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8. Making Food Accessible & Cookbook Philosophy

• [39:39 - 41:10] Discovering that customers wanted familiar, accessible food at home—not "fancy" platters.
• Recipes and cookbooks empower people to nourish themselves and build confidence.

Notable Quote:

Ina Garten [41:10]:
"You just don't know it's there. You just have to unleash it... I wasn't giving them a cookbook. I was giving them the tools to make something for themselves."

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9. Friendship, Humor, and Joy

• [45:05 - 46:55] The power of female friendship—Ina finds her greatest joys in friends “with a great sense of humor.”
• Sense of humor is essential in life and relationships.

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10. Viewer Q&A – Cheerfulness, Challenges, and Forgiveness

• [47:13 - 51:22] Amy asks Julia’s questions on air.

  What makes Ina so cheerful?

  Ina Garten [48:18]:
  "I think we're either born with a positive or negative energy... I was just born this way. My parents just said I came out, like, playing with my toes and giggling."

  What puts her in a bad mood?

  Ina Garten [47:29]:
  "Passive aggressive people who tell you what you want to hear and do exactly as they please. Makes me crazy."

  On forgiving her father and accepting complexity in family:

  [49:24 - 50:56] Stories of reconciliation and the long game of relationship healing.

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11. Choosing Not to Have Children

• [51:22 - 52:24] Ina reflects—lightly and decisively—on her and Jeffrey’s choice not to have kids, and the freedom and happiness it brought.
  • "It’s amazing to me that I made that decision so young and that, thank God Jeffrey was okay with it, but I just can’t imagine my life any other way." [52:08]

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12. Scaling Down & Redefining Success

• [53:04 - 54:12] Amy insists: Ina runs an empire; Ina demurs, reveling in her scaled-down business and joyfully quiet daily life.
  • Discussion on the value of scaling down, focusing on what brings pleasure.

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13. Work, Self-Esteem, and the Third Act

• [54:12 - 55:55] Reflections on their relationship to work and what “enough” looks like; taking life in “manageable bites.”
  • "Go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll be able to see farther." [56:01 - 56:32]

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14. Lightning Round – Food & Life

• [57:01 - 65:13]
  • Best way to cook carrots? [57:06]
    "Roasted. Olive oil, salt and pepper."
    With feta, honey or balsamic!
  • Sorbet dilemma (Julia): [57:26 - 58:07]
    Ina recommends an ice cream maker for creaminess. Granita-style freezing is more icy.
  • Thanksgiving shortcuts: [58:55]
    Uses store-bought mashed potatoes doctored with sour cream, parmesan, and garlic; bread pudding from Pepperidge Farm stuffing.
  • Current chefs she loves: [59:43]
    Erin French of Lost Kitchen; finds inspiration on Instagram, not TikTok.
  • Secret ingredient: [60:40]
    "Something with an edge—balsamic vinegar, Parmesan, Dijon, red wine, lemon zest."
  • Reflections on cooking & anxiety: [61:01]
    "When you’re doing something that’s really hard, you just put everything else out of your mind."
  • Anything you refuse to cook? [62:43]
    "Tongue. Liver and onions. Really complicated things like bouillabaisse—I mean, that takes forever."
  • Chicken stock is easy—Amy should come make it! [63:33]
  • Do bay leaves do anything? [64:15]
    Ina’s not convinced unless they’re fresh!
  • On intimidating ingredients: [65:13]
    Both mock their jars of rarely-used spices like za’atar.

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15. Life, Bobs, and French Aspirations

• [65:51 - 67:57]
  • On her signature bob haircut:
    "It’s been the same haircut since I was 25." [66:20]
  • French style (“short hair shows your ensemble better”) and dreams of someday living in France full-time.

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16. Living as the Architect of Your Own Life

• [67:57 - 68:43]
  • Amy sums up the “theme”: You can choose your own path at any age; there are no deadlines or scripts.

Notable Quote:

Ina Garten [68:34]:
"...Do what you really want to do now."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• On Marriage & Respect:
  “We have a very different kind of life than we expected to… if we [are] trying to figure out what to do, we figure out what he wants to do and what I want to do… let's figure out how we can both do what we want to do. It's not about whether we get to do what you want to do or I want to do.”
  — Ina Garten [25:05]

• On Joy:
  "I think about when I do yoga and my instructor says, 'find your inner smile.' I think you either walk around with an inner smile or you don't. And if you don't, I think you need to just nurture it. And I feel like I was just born this way."
  — Ina Garten [48:18]

• On Friendship:
  “Jeffrey’s clearly my best friend, but women bring something totally different, and it’s really connection.”
  — Ina Garten [45:36]

• On Late-in-Life Success:
  “There’s no timeline as to when things are supposed to happen in your life. You get married really early, you start your business later, you’re writing a memoir at this age… you’re the architect of your own life, basically.”
  — Amy Poehler [67:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:41 – 11:42] Julia Louis-Dreyfus sets up the episode, interviews about sun, hats, cheerfulness, and sorbet.
• [12:14 – 15:01] Ina’s entrance, gift exchange, and discussion of food as community.
• [23:35 – 28:14] The Jeffrey & Ina partnership story.
• [30:06 – 34:02] Ina’s White House years and leap to culinary entrepreneurship.
• [36:01 – 39:23] Lessons on being a boss and learning to lead.
• [47:13 – 51:22] Q&A: On cheerfulness, what makes her mad, and forgiving her father.
• [54:12 – 55:55] Work, self-esteem, and finding the right relationship to work.
• [57:01 – 65:13] Lightning round: food tips, holidays, Instagram vs. TikTok, what gets cooked (or doesn't), and kitchen gadgets.
• [65:51 – 67:57] Hair, French aspirations, and fashion.
• [67:57 – 68:43] Life lessons: no timelines, choose now.

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Original Tone & Style

The episode is effervescent, warm, gently self-deprecating, and full of practical affection. Both Amy and Ina trade stories with wit and candor, making the conversation feel intimate and relatable. The stories center not on perfection or unachievable milestones, but on the beauty of pursuing joy, building community, and finding humor and meaning in small and large decisions.

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For Listeners Seeking Specific Insights:

• Sun Protection & Sorbet Science: Julia’s banter in the opening segment [02:27-11:42]
• Building Lasting Relationships: Heartfelt tales about Ina & Jeffrey [23:35-28:14]
• Making a Big Career Change: Ina’s White House-to-food leap [30:06-34:02]
• Cooking Philosophy & Empowerment: Accessible food and building confidence [39:39-41:10]
• Work-Life Wisdom: On scaling down, leading with heart, and savoring each season [53:04-55:55]
• Quick Kitchen Q&A: Roasting carrots, shortcut Thanksgiving, and the underrated zester [57:01-65:13]

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Final Words

Ina and Amy remind us that success and happiness hinge on clarity, humor, respect, and intentional joy, not on following a prescribed timeline. Whether you're inspired to try a new recipe, reconnect with a friend, or just appreciate your own inner smile, this episode delivers laughter, comfort, and a call to savor life—one delicious bite at a time.

Transcript

[A]

Your ambition just met its match with Robinhood. Trade stocks and ETFs, options, futures and crypto all on one platform. You expect more from yourself. Expect more from your money. Get started [e-mail] yourmoney. Your money, your move. All investments involve risk, including loss of principal. Options, futures and crypto trading carry significant risk and may not suit all investors. Securities offered Through Robinhood Financial, LLC member SIPC Futures Trading is offered by Robinhood Derivatives, LLC and not SBIC or FDIC protected. Crypto offered through Robinhood Crypto LLC and MLSID 1702840, not FDIC or SIPC protected. Well, hello, everyone. I'm very excited for this episode of Good Hang. I'm Amy Poehler. And joining me today is Ina Garten. Ina is just a delight, and we are gonna talk about so many fun things. We're gonna talk about her TV show podcast, Be my guest. We're gonna talk about the best way to cook carrots. We're gonna talk about enriched uranium. And she arrives with the best gift I've received yet and the first gift I've received. So I can't wait to show you that. But before we get started, we always like to talk to somebody who knows our guest and has a question for them. And we have a real humdinger on this one. I mean, just a comedic genius. Everybody's fave. I mean, what hasn't she done? Emmys, tv, movies. Just a social activist. She's in her garden. She's protecting herself from the sun. She's wearing a giant hat. Her name is Julia Louis Dreyfus. J L D. This episode is presented to you by Walmart. I'd like to say that I'm a pretty good gift giver. And for me, it's about making the extra effort to find the perfect gift. Walmart has the top brands we all love in one place. Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it. That's why it has to be Walmart. For all my gifts this year, guest best gift giver award goes to yours truly. Get the brands everyone loves at prices you'll love at Walmart. Who Knew? Go to walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season. Get up. What do you say? Your hat looks great.

[B]

I don't know what else to do.

[A]

I mean, look, at this point, we should. Hats, whatever. Scarves, whatever.

[B]

Yes, Scarves, hats.

[A]

Oh, my God. You're the best for getting on and doing this. Hi, friend.

[B]

Hi, my friend. I'm so happy to see you.

[A]

I'M so happy to see you, too. And I was just thinking about the last time we saw each other, which was getting our hair colored. Yeah, at the salon. At the salon where all the ladies go to meet. Are you in California or.

[B]

I'm in California. I'm in Santa Barbara, California. Hence this hat.

[A]

It is a very California hat.

[B]

It is, actually, but I do. In fact, this isn't bullshit. I actually do wear this hat all the time because I'm conscious of getting too much sun.

[A]

You know what I was just saying? I was just telling someone that my dermatologist told me no more sun. Like, you're done with sun the end, period.

[B]

Yeah. And are you listening to your dermatologist?

[A]

I'm finally. I'm. Sadly, I've known this for many years, but I need to talk to you about. And all the women listening about full sun shirts.

[B]

I know everything. Ugh.

[A]

I can't wait. I knew you would.

[C]

I knew you would.

[B]

I have so much information for you. First of all, get this hat number one.

[A]

I knew you would, and I so appreciate it. Because, first of all, babe, you look incredible. Nobody looks better than Jim Filters that.

[B]

Are on this computer. Thank you.

[C]

As well.

[A]

At one point, you should do that zoom thing where you just get sun. You put sunglasses on yourself, and then you turn into a cat, and then the background turns into a beach.

[C]

I wish I knew how to do that.

[A]

Well, we're talking to Ina Garten today. Lucky you. And you know what? Before I even get into that, congratulations on your podcast. And. And congratulations on your podcast. Thank you.

[C]

Thank you, thank you.

[A]

Just two ladies having a podcast.

[B]

Welcome to showbiz.

[A]

Where did you first meet Ina?

[B]

On the podcast.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

You became pod. You became friends after the podcast, Correct?

[B]

Like, real, proper friends.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[A]

How did that happen?

[B]

I don't know. I just feel like she's. Have you ever met her?

[A]

No. Never met her.

[B]

Oh, well, you're gonna just have the best conversation because she's as. She's exactly what you think. She's completely authentic. She's very kind. She's obviously very intelligent. She's hilarious. She's just got a great attitude. She's incredibly cheerful.

[C]

FYI.

[B]

That's a question you need to ask her.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Why are you so cheerful?

[A]

And say it that aggressively.

[B]

I mean, I actually mean that. I don't mean it sarcastically, although it sounded it. But, I mean, like, seriously, why are you so cheerful? And also, what puts you in a bad mood? I'd like to know what really puts Ina in a bad Mood.

[A]

It's so interesting you say that because, like, in doing research on her and, you know, like, she has this. You know, she talks about it in her book, like a decision she makes to decide to enjoy life. She just, like, kind of, you know, a lot of it is meeting Jeffrey.

[C]

A lot.

[A]

Yeah. And him saying, you know, I'm gonna give you a safe container in which to decide, you know, what kind of life you wanna live, and we're gonna find joy in our lives. But she really seems like she's the kind of person that made a decision and makes a decision every day.

[B]

Yeah, I think she does. She's very intentional that way. And she's a hard worker. I mean, she's. I don't know if she'd call herself a workaholic, but she works hard. She likes to work, and that's reflected in the work that she does. And speaking of which, this is. I have another question for her that I'd like you to ask her.

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

Afterwards.

[A]

About sun protection. No, no.

[B]

Yes, sun protection, for sure. Definitely. Call me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm getting hat you're wearing all day long. You're sleeping in it. But I'm in my kitchen. And the reason I'm in my kitchen is because it's a cooking question.

[A]

And also, I just want to point out, for people who are listening but not watching, a gorgeous bowl of lemons behind you. Oh, just a gorgeous bowl.

[B]

What an extraordinary segue, Amy Poehler. Because the dish that I created was a lemon dish, in fact.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I made a lemon sorbet, which.

[A]

I'm going to show you, brag and. Or we're going into Julia's refrigerator right now. She made a sorbet in a lemon. Okay, so, listeners, this is a gorgeous sorbet that is in a lemon.

[B]

In a lemon rind.

[A]

Is it peel? The lemon case.

[B]

It's in the. Shall we say, the casing.

[A]

The lemon cup.

[B]

She took the casing of a lemon.

[A]

Okay. She made the sorbet, and then she scooped out the lemon and she put it back in. So now the lemon serves as a dish.

[B]

Correct. And so the sorbet is delicious.

[A]

Looks incredible.

[B]

Made it with lemon water and sugar and lemon zest.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But here's the issue. It's very icy and it's not creamy.

[A]

Ah, I see.

[B]

So the question. I don't know if you cook, Amy.

[A]

Do you like to cook? I do. I love to cook. And I want to talk to Ina about it because I was late to cooking. Very late.

[B]

Well, by the way, all of her books are good for you because they're so easy. It's not crazy. Complicated and delicious. Delicious recipes. But anyway, I need to know what to add to this. I'm guessing it's some sort of a binder of some sort that I can add to this to give it more of a. A creamier sorbet texture versus what I've got. Which, by the way, is totally delicious. But you can see it sort of. It sort of breaks off.

[A]

I find ice cream and sorbet to be very hard to make. Very hard to make.

[B]

Well, I got news for you. This is delicious. Maybe don't ask for anything.

[A]

Yeah, maybe it's perfect.

[B]

But I would like. No, I really would.

[A]

Okay. So I'm gonna ask her about the sorbet. I'm gonna ask her. Positive attitude. And I will just say, and this is obvious question, but now that you are friends and you hang out, have you and Brad gone to dinner with Ina and Jeffrey? Yes. Oh, great. And two very successful, long marriages. Both of you. You know how I feel about you and your husband, Brad Hall. Truly. Couple goals. Both of you just.

[B]

Oh, that's so nice.

[A]

You know. You know, there's not always a lot of couples that you want to hang with. That's true. It's true. It's usually one or the other.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. We have dinner plans tonight with a couple. And let's just say I'm thinking of a way right now to get out of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You could just say you were wearing a hat and it.

[B]

I was wearing a hat and I got a headache.

[A]

Got too tight.

[B]

I ate too much sorbet. I'm sick.

[C]

That'll work.

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna ask Ina about her attitude, sorbet, and what puts her in a bad mood. I'd really like to know what puts.

[B]

Her in a bad mood. I hope she'll answer.

[A]

Honest. I know. I wonder. I mean, truly, what is so interesting about her is her success came late in life.

[B]

Yeah. FYI, she worked in the White House in nuclear energy, as I recall.

[A]

Dang. What a life.

[B]

Indeed. So I. I ended for talking to her and Tell her I said hi. I will. And call me later and I'll give you a bunch of sunscreen tips, including clothing.

[C]

I know.

[B]

And products for your face.

[A]

I gotta get the whole.

[B]

Do the sunscreen. I've got good sunscreen that doesn't turn your face white too.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I always use sunscreen, but I think I'm at a point now where I have to Wear the full shirt, which I know. God, you know, it's just like. It feels like everything fun is taken away. That's the attitude, Amy. Except for sorbet. Except for sorbet.

[B]

Wait, tell Ina that. Tell her that. Help me get out of this funk if you can.

[A]

Do you ever feel like everything fun is taken away? Anyway, Julia's having some trouble with her sorbet and the creaminess of it. So let's get to that. All right. Thank you for jumping on. I really appreciate it. And will you come? Will you come do this someday when you're not doing yours? I know you're so busy, but come. I would love to. Absolutely love to, because you are, in.

[B]

Fact, a good hang.

[A]

Thank you. So are you, friend. And I think about our times together a lot and always want more of them. So let's make it happen.

[B]

Done and done.

[C]

Woo hoo hoo.

[A]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card and Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail] so I brought you a little present.

[C]

I shopped all over the world for it. I went to Hermes, I went to all the fabulous stores and I chose something I thought you might like.

[A]

Ina listeners. Ina's giving me a beautiful green bag. This is some asmr. Some crinkle asmr. Oh, my goodness.

[C]

Did I guess right?

[A]

I'm getting chills. Okay.

[C]

No, it's not a diamond necklace.

[A]

Oh, this is so incredible. Jenna, do you know what this is? Oh, Ina brought a fake roast chicken.

[C]

Just to add to your collection.

[A]

Actually, my heart is pounding. My heart is pounding. First of all, there's so many things I love about this. Thank you very. I love this.

[C]

I really.

[A]

I was going to cry. I like that it is the same size as a roast chicken.

[C]

It's not a fake fake. It's a real fake.

[A]

I like the glistening. There's some kind of fake glass.

[C]

I like that its little legs are tied together.

[A]

This is actually how you would. Cause I make your roast chicken with fennel.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I love.

[A]

It's my favorite recipe. And you talk about tucking the wings and tying here and putting the lemons inside and the weight of it. Listeners, you can't feel it, but it's got a good weight. But not too. Like, if you dropped it on your toe, you wouldn't break it. I know. That is the Nice. As you've heard, I love fake food.

[C]

I've gotten that idea here.

[A]

And I know I should probably put it in the back, but I also wanna keep it close. Oh, I love it. Okay, I'll put it in the back. Thank you so much for my lovely gift. And now everyone who sees it will know that it came from you. I mean, your roast chicken. We have a lot to talk about today.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But I'm sure you've heard this from many people, but what you. You are like a translator. So you take what you've learned and what you know, and you make people understand it, and it's a rare skill.

[C]

Oh, thank you. That's wonderful.

[A]

I just. This. This roast chicken, even though it's fake, is making me think about the fact that you taught me how to make a roast chicken. Which.

[C]

What.

[A]

And what is bigger than that and deeper than that is it's not about the chicken.

[C]

It's about when you cook. Everybody shows up, and then you create a community around yourself. And I didn't know that until I started writing cookbooks. But it's just a really important thing that we all need to feel like we're part of something and that we take care of people, they take care of us. And a roast chicken is the most basic thing. I don't think there's a culture in the world that doesn't have some kind of roast chicken.

[A]

So people start podcasts sometimes to check mics, and they say, what'd you eat for breakfast? Like, what did you eat for breakfast? Is the question that a lot of people ask when they're starting a podcast. Ina, what did you have for breakfast this morning?

[C]

I have the same thing I always have. I either have, and I go for years with one breakfast, and then I switch and I go for years with another breakfast. So I always have whole grain toast with really good butter. I love French butter and coffee. And that's breakfast.

[A]

Coffee drinker, how do you take your coffee with milk and tea drinker at all?

[C]

I start drinking tea around 10:30. Like, not at 10:29, not 10:31, but at 10:30. My brain goes, tea and no more.

[A]

Coffee the rest of the day.

[C]

Probably not.

[A]

Yeah, that's smart. I was telling a lot of my friends. I have a lot of young friends who talk about how they can't sleep, and when you check out their Coffee intake. They're having coffee.

[C]

It's crazy. It's crazy. But I brought something else with me too. While we're on that subject of breakfast.

[A]

You brought something else?

[C]

And I think Jenna might have it right here. Ina, if we play our cards right.

[A]

Wait, Ina's giving me more things? I'm overwhelmed.

[C]

Well, I thought we have to have a party here. I don't want to throw a party. We love a good party.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Okay, so they had fabulous strawberries at Eataly downstairs. Mine is pulling out strawberries. They're from Harry's Berries in. I think it's in the northwest.

[A]

Yeah, Harry's Berries is really big in California too.

[C]

Oh, it's just the best. And I thought we have to have something to drink with. Oh, my gosh. So we get a nice chilled chorsecco. This could be breakfast.

[A]

I want you to know I barely drink anymore, so I'm a real lightweight.

[C]

I'm worse. I'm totally worse. I always say I spend so much more time talking about drinking than I do actually drinking.

[A]

If I have a half a glass of that, I'm gonna really start spilling some secrets. There's gonna be some tears.

[C]

I think I might have to fill your glass first. Getting it open's not so easy.

[A]

I used to be in the food service industry.

[C]

Oh, you were so on.

[A]

I'd be happy to open it for.

[C]

You, because I think you're gonna be the one to do this.

[A]

Okay. Because I used to open a lot of. Wait, why are you flinching, Jenna? I know how to open. So here's the key.

[C]

Is turn the bottle, not the cork.

[A]

Right, Exactly. And also, you want to do the thing where you talk about something else while you're doing it so nobody's distract.

[C]

Oh, very good idea.

[A]

Like, you know, when you're opening your champagne, you're just saying. So just a couple of things about the specials tonight. We have a gorgeous fake roast ch. That is really delicious. And we have. We have.

[C]

Well done. Like a pro. Whoa.

[A]

Oh, my God. May I pour?

[C]

Yes, please.

[A]

Thank you so much. Okay. We're pouring champagne.

[C]

Very little for me I've ever.

[A]

Podcasts are great, guys. All you do is you get presents, and then you have champagne with Ina and strawberries. Cheers.

[C]

Isn't this very pretty, woman? Champagne and strawberries. Cheers.

[A]

This is how we imagined our life. Cheers. Cut to me immediately crying. Okay. Wow. And these strawberries look amazing too. You know, I'm gonna say something a little controversial. There's gonna be a lot of controversy in this podcast.

[B]

Fruit.

[C]

Fruit. You don't like fruit?

[A]

I like it, but I'll take a vegetable over fruit. I'll take vegetables over fruit, but fruit.

[C]

That is picked before you eat it, that tastes like fruit. The problem is a lot of things here have been picked, like, six months ago, and they're shipped somewhere. It's not like going to a farm stand and buying. When you go to France, there are stores that sell fruit that when you go to pick out a pear, they say, no, you want these pears. And do you want to eat it today or tomorrow? And they're choosing it by how ripe it is. So it's going to be perfect today or perfect tomorrow. The problem is we're eating fruit out of season.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, the strawberry or in season, we're eating fruit that's not ripened on the vine. It's been ripened by sitting around, which doesn't ripen it. It just ages it. So the thing about good strawberries, it tastes like strawberry jam. You don't need to do anything with it.

[A]

And I know this is kind of a Sophie's Choice, but if you had to go between sweet and salty, what would be your choice? Are you a savory or are you a sweet person?

[C]

Probably savory. Probably savory.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. So fruit sometimes is a little like, I'd rather have a cheese than a fruit.

[C]

Oh, I'm with you there. Cheese and bre.

[A]

I'm gonna forget it.

[C]

Cheese and bread. Desert island. You and I are good.

[A]

What, you grew up in Brooklyn. What did you eat growing up? Your mother was a dietitian. Did you have. Did that. What were you eating at home, and what did you eat from it?

[C]

She was very extreme in what she served, and she believed that you should only eat protein and vegetables and nothing else. I mean, there wasn't bread. There wasn't French fries. There wasn't. There was. I mean, literally no carbs. So I was, like, starving when I was a kid. There was no cookies and milk. When you got home from school, if I asked her for something, if I got home and I was hungry, she'd go, oh, just eat an apple. I mean, nobody wants an apple after school. No.

[A]

Especially since they've just given one to a teacher and associated with teachers. But it's interesting because, you know.

[B]

When.

[A]

You grew up and after there was a. I mean, there still is, of course, this crazy diet culture, but there was this, like, weird fear about food. Like, and the fear shifts all the time. Sometimes we're afraid of carbs, then we're afraid of fats, then we're afraid of, like. And you've witnessed this, the trends that. Where people come and go and they decide what we're supposed to be afraid of. And I remember growing up, grew up in the 70s, there was just a lot of misinformation about food. It was just. We just didn't know what we didn't know, I guess.

[C]

I mean, at the end of the day, I think the more you cook and choose simple things to cook, and the less you eat processed foods. That's really all you need to know.

[A]

I know.

[C]

And if you eat a balanced diet, you feel better. I know it doesn't mean you're living on carbs or there are no carbs. It's balanced. And if you want to be healthier, then eat a little more vegetables and a little less protein and carbs. But, I mean, that's. It's not that complicated.

[A]

But real food was not something discussed in the 70s. The 70s was about gadgets and shortcuts. Right? Cause women were going back to work, and it was very much like, hey, you don't have to make the meal. Make, you know, make stuff in your microwave instead. And there was. I remember. I'll speak on behalf of my mom. Like a freedom in things being faster and easier and kids being able to do it and all that kind of stuff.

[C]

But we did. Did you cook when you were a kid?

[A]

No.

[C]

Cause you didn't start cooking until you were, like, 40. Right?

[A]

Right.

[C]

So what changed?

[A]

So I. I really believed up and kind of what I was saying to you earlier. I really believed that I just was the kind of person that I was like, I just don't think I'm the kind of person that cooks. And I would say myself to.

[C]

You're not the kind of person who can cook or wants to cook.

[A]

I think a little bit of both. I think it was like, I don't really know enough dishes. And maybe it's something I'm not interested in. But what motivates me sometimes, Ina is watching really dumb people do things because I'm like, wait a minute. There's a lot of. Wait. Look at Ina interviewing me, by the way, I'm doing so much talking. Wait a minute, hold on. I gotta pause. You are good.

[C]

You're interviewing me. Okay.

[A]

I'm passing strawberries over you.

[C]

I had one sip in my cheek.

[A]

One sip, one sip. And I'm like, you know what the thing is, Ina? The 70s? No, but you were a big Part of me feeling like, wait a minute, I've seen.

[C]

Was I that dumb person cooking? We have to back up here.

[A]

No, I guess I mean that, like, I was motivated by. I watched people learn how to cook, and I thought, hold on. I know how to learn new things. I can learn new things.

[C]

One of my favorite things that Jennifer Garner ever said was. She said, as you get older, you're not willing to try new things because you're afraid of failing. Of course, when you're a kid, you try everything and you fail. You get up, you do it again. But as we get older, we're not willing to do that. And I think it really got me to think about the things that I wasn't doing because I thought I wouldn't be able to do them.

[A]

Well, that's a pattern over and over again for you is you decide to kind of evaluate where you are and choose a joyful next path. Like, you've done that over and over again. So you grew up in Brooklyn. We gotta bring Jeffrey in right away. I mean, I don't know. We just gotta bring him in. I'd love to bring him in here right now. I mean, Jeffrey and you meet first when you're 16.

[C]

And then I was, like, 17 when he saw me, and I was 16 when he saw me, and I met him when I was 17.

[A]

And you were married at 20?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Smartest thing I ever did.

[A]

I know.

[C]

I have to say, against everybody's advice, if your mother tells you not to marry somebody, listen to yourself, not your mother.

[A]

And what did Jeffrey's parents think? Did he love them?

[C]

They were just wonderful to me.

[A]

They were.

[C]

They were wonderful. Yeah. Jeffrey's grandmother. When they met me, I met them at some family bar mitzvah or something. And Jeffrey's. His button fell off his coat, and I said, oh, just give it to me. I'll sew it back on again. And his grandmothers were taking their wedding rings and going, marry her now before somebody else does.

[A]

She knows how to sew a button.

[C]

She knows how to sew a button on.

[A]

I think what people. I know what people respond to about your relationship with Jeffrey. And it is that you kind of can't fake mutual respect. You just see it or you don't. And you two have a lot of respect for each other.

[C]

Yeah. And we keep it very simple. We have a very different kind of life than we expected to. I mean, we don't have kids. We don't have cats and dogs, so we don't have gerbils. It's just the two of us, and if we trying to figure out what to do, we figure out what he wants to do and what I want to do. And this is what Jeffrey taught me is let's figure out how we can both do what we want to do. It's not about whether we get to do what you want to do or I want to do. And big things like careers and small things like what movie we go see. I just. I love that about him. He's so respectful. And it's pretty hard not to, you know, to return that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just in a long marriage, in a long relationship, it's like one of the things you have to be vigilant about is just trying to stay respectful with someone that you. That you know so well. Because we just get very familiar with people and we forget that part where we have to be kind of tender with them. And you both are very tender with each other.

[C]

I just. I don't take it for granted ever.

[A]

What do people say to you about your relationship with Jeffrey? Because I bet people project a lot on it. I know the Internet does.

[C]

A lot of people say, oh, I have a Jeffrey, too. And I think to myself, nah.

[A]

You'Re like, bring it to me in your dreams. And then you're like, stay away from mine, Jeffrey.

[C]

No.

[A]

I think women ever hit on your Jeffrey?

[C]

No, I hope not. My God, I would kill those women.

[A]

But, yeah, people say, oh, I have a really. And what do you think they're saying when they say that?

[C]

That I have somebody that I have a really good time with that I just adore, and he adores me back. Which is all you really want, right?

[A]

Yeah, but, you know, that's what you want. And I relate to that, too. But I think sometimes people forget the fun part in relationships.

[C]

It's so important.

[A]

Why is it.

[C]

I mean, what's the first thing you look for in a friend or a spouse? They have a sense of humor. Because otherwise, I mean, there's such crazy stuff going on. If you don't have a sense of humor about it, you're just too serious. You're too serious to live with.

[A]

I know, I know. It's very simple, but it's sometimes hard to learn. And I do think that the other thing that people see in your relationship is a man who is very in love with his partner. And you are choosing someone who loves you, I guess is the simplest way to say it. And that's. It seems so easy and simple, but it's not always what people Do I.

[C]

Knew somebody who would fix people up with, you know, together. And Jeffrey said to her, what do you look for in somebody that you're fixing up with a friend of yours? And she said, three things. Are they a good person? Do they want to take care of you? And that doesn't mean financially. That means everything. Like, do they want to take care of you? And the third one really shocked me because it was so simple. Does he want to be with you? So many people want a wife, but they want to go play golf. But that's the thing about Jeffrey. There's nothing. I mean, he just follows me around the house, and every once in a while, I turn around and go, does he want to be with you?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you want to be any.

[C]

Do you want to be together? Or are you just looking for that to fill in that blank?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That is so deep.

[C]

It really is. It's so simple, and yet it's so important.

[A]

Yeah. And I know that you, you know, you. Anyone who's been married. How many years have you been married?

[C]

57.

[A]

So you have this, you know, ever changing story, right? This song that keeps changing and growing. How have you grown? How have you both changed from when you were married at 20? Like, how are you different?

[C]

Well, I think when we were married at 20, we each had, like, roles. You know, he was the husband, I was the wife. I'd go, you know, we both had jobs and, you know, he would go to the State Department. I worked in the White House, and it was assumed that I would come home and make dinner until I found it just incredibly annoying. I just didn't want to have the girl role and him have the boy role. And so we just threw the whole thing away and started all over again. So he took the checkbook and he said, here, you do it. One time he said to me, he said to me, ein, what's he doing that bill's? And he goes, ein, what's this bill from Bloomingdale's? And I thought, I'm not about to justify to you what my bill from Bloomingdale's is. And he picks up the checkbook and he hands it to me. He goes, okay, you do it. And I said, fine. And that was that.

[A]

So funny. I have such memories of my parents sitting at the kitchen table with their.

[C]

Checkbook, doing it together.

[A]

Doing it together.

[C]

That's interesting.

[A]

And it being a big deal about who was doing it. And you're right. Especially a lot of women during that time just weren't even aware of their financials. Let alone knew how to do it.

[C]

Exactly. And recently, actually, Jeffrey said to me, so how much do we spend on the garden?

[A]

You were like, jeffrey, don't ask questions like that. It doesn't matter. We have strawberries. We're fine.

[C]

I just went, I don't think so. Then he goes, okay, I get it.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

We cannot blow past the White House. You just said so casually. I was at the White House. He was at the State Department. Like an episode of the Americans or something.

[C]

That was us. You didn't know that? That's the untold story.

[A]

I mean, you could say. Could argue that you and Jeffrey worked for the CIA.

[C]

Well, I think a few people. You know, you don't know this about Jeffrey, but he was a paratrooper and a Green Beret, and then his first job was in the White House, and then he worked for the Secretary of State. So everybody I know thinks he's in the CIA. And every once in a while, I go, are you actually in the CIA? And he always says, you know, the wives are the last to know.

[A]

That would be an amazing show. I would watch that, where he reveals at age.

[C]

And I'm a Russian agent.

[A]

But you worked in the White House, and you were working during the Ford administration and the Carter administration. Like, during those. Ford.

[C]

I started when Ford came in and then stayed on through Carter.

[A]

And what were you doing there?

[C]

I worked on nuclear energy policy.

[A]

Nuclear energy policy.

[C]

Energy policy. So it's the part of the federal budget that I worked at, Office of Management Budget, which writes the president's budget, and I oversaw the budget for nuclear. Nuclear power plants. And. Interesting that it's come up now. Enriched uranium.

[A]

Yes, it's very. Uranium is in the news.

[C]

It's in the news. It's back in the news. Exactly.

[A]

And how did you get that job? How did you get a job?

[C]

I just. I think Jeffrey knew somebody in the White House who was looking for somebody, and I applied for the job and got it.

[A]

And you talked about how it was pretty. It was tough for you. Things moved slowly.

[C]

Slowly. Oh, my God. Every year we would take something out of the budget, something big. I mean, at the time, there was one nuclear project that was $20 billion, which was a lot at that time in the 70s. And it would go up to the Hill, and the congressperson, I think it was Strom Thurmond, was from the district that this plant was in. And then we were trying to get rid of it or give it to private industry. He would have no control over it. So he would put it back in. And then the next year, I'd write the same papers to the president to take it out. And the next year, Thurmond would put it back in again. And after four years of that, it was like, okay, I'm done. I'm so done. I'm not writing this paper one more.

[A]

You're writing budgets. And you decide, I need something where there's. I really need to do something that. Like, where I can make something do something, and I can see the results of it fast. And so can you just tell me, how do you go from. I mean, I've read about it, and I've watched you talk about it, but still, the leap from working in that very corporate job to running a store is such an interesting leap. What gave you the courage to make the leap? How do you make that career change?

[C]

I knew I was done with working in the government. Yeah. And when I lived in Washington, I taught myself how to cook. I used to, just for fun, buy old houses, renovate them and sell them. And actually, I was going to business school at the same time. I don't know how I did any of that.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I knew I was either gonna go into real estate or the food business, and I just didn't. And then this ad showed up in the New York Times, And I came home that night, and Jeffrey. I said to Jeffrey, I really need to find something else to do. And he said, just pick something fun. Pick something that you think you'd love doing, and if you love it, you'll be really good at it. And I was like, funny you should mention it. I saw an ad for a business for sale in a place I'd never been. It was a specialty food store. And he said, let's go look at it. Wow. So, I mean, what an incredible guy he was. It was in a place that he didn't live. He was working for the secretary of state. It would basically blow up our lives. And he said, just go look at it.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by CarMax. When you shop with CarMax, you're in the driver's seat of every decision. So you feel calm, confident, and in control throughout the journey. Look, you can sell your car in pajamas. You can match your car color to your favorite sports team or your org or your dog's favorite color. You can do whatever you want. CarMax lets you do that. Buy and sell used vehicles on your terms. Want to drive CarMax? Shop [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by. Meet Boston. Look, I love Boston. I Grew up there. I love Bostonians. There's everything you need in Boston. Incredible food, colleges, my family. There's no better city and no one will tell you that more than a Bostonian. It's why I love Boston. They give it to you straight. It's got so much history. You gotta go there. And it's great to visit all year, but especially over the holidays when it becomes a winter wonderland of shops, outdoor activities, including fancy holiday drone shows and award winning food scene. Trust me, it's not just chowder and lobster rolls. Plus, nothing beats a Boston sports crowd, whether it's college teams or the pros. And including all the brand new women's teams that are there. So exciting. So book your trip [e-mail] Winter this episode is brought to you by Allstate. You know what's smart? Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on your car insurance. You know what's not smart? Not checking that your sunroof is closed before going through the car wash. Or not checking that you sent the meeting invite to a guest's friend. Yikes. Don't want to forget that. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance company and affiliates, North Brand Illinois. You have now a business employees and you have to learn very quickly how to be a boss. Yeah, right. And so what, you know, how would you describe yourself as a boss?

[C]

I always wanted to be the boss that I wanted to have myself. And so I'm very collaborative. I think in the beginning I was probably too collaborative. Like, what do you think we should do here? What should we do there? And as I got better at it, somebody actually gave me, a friend gave me the advice. Your employees need two things from you. They need you to be clear and they need you to be clear. Happy. And from then on, I would say, I need these candies bagged and I need them wrapped up like this. And if I was having a bad day, I would just disturb the energy in the room. Sometimes I had 50 or 100 employees and they'd all be like, what did I do wrong? But it had nothing to do with them. So I would just walk out of the store, I'd walk around the block, calm myself down and come back happy. And it was, I think that was the best lesson I ever had for business.

[A]

How do you give feedback or criticism?

[C]

I'm very clear about two things. If I'm criticizing you, I'll take you out of the room and discuss what you can do better. If I'm complimenting you, I'll do it with everybody around. But I never compliment.

[A]

I totally agree with you.

[C]

Don't you?

[A]

I think compliments with everyone around is a huge thing that people forget to do. I think they actually do the opposite quite a bit. They criticize with everyone around in public, and they compliment privately.

[C]

And if I have to fire somebody, I'm always worried, what are their colleagues gonna. And I usually give them a lot of warnings, find what they have to do better. And at the end of the day, it doesn't work. I fire them usually in a way that makes them say thank you and kiss me when they leave. Like, this isn't the right job for you, but that could be the right job for you. And then I call everybody together. That works for me, and I say, I need to explain to you what happened, why this didn't work out with that person. Because I'm so worried that their colleagues are going to be mad that their friend is gone. And 100% of the time they're like, oh, such a pain in the neck. We hated working with them. I'm so glad you fired them.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

So it turns it always. But you need that communication.

[A]

And it's a kind of a on the job, learned skill. Because to your point, I think we're. I'm gonna make a huge generalization here, but sometimes a lot of women are good collaborators. So we figure out, like, I think the best way to be in charge here is to make sure everybody's voices are heard. And I'm constantly collaborating until you realize that people are looking for. For direction.

[C]

And I start with the assumption everybody wants to do a good job. I just have to give them the tools to do it. I have to tell you one story, though. The first, probably a month in, when I bought Barefoot Contessa, and there was. I think there was a cook and three people working in the store, and one of them was just dreadful. And they were all like 16 years old. But she was just. I mean, she had no vision. Like, if I tell her to clean the counter, if there were 20 customers waiting, she'd be cleaning the counter. She was just very sweet, but not very good. So I took her out in the back and I explained that, you know, I'm sure there are other jobs that are good at. This isn't the one. And it was so gentle because I was so Worried about hurting her feelings that the next day she showed up for work again.

[A]

She didn't know she was fired.

[C]

And the worst part is, I couldn't do it again. So she stayed for the whole summer. I've gotten better than that.

[A]

I could see that happening, too. Me, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where everyone's like, thank you for the feedback. I'll see you tomorrow. Like, oh, no, what have I done? Barefoot Contessa. When you opened the store, what was the stuff that you were trying to sell there that spoke to people who were wanting real food?

[C]

Well, you know, I had to learn it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I thought, this is. It's an expensive store. It's very expensive to make specialty foods. I'm in the Hamptons. I'd never been there before, so I had an image of it being fancy. And so if I. I mean, while we're talking about roast chicken, if I made roast chicken in the store, I take a huge white platter, and I fill it with fresh herbs, and then I put the roast chickens on it and then put them out, and nobody bought them. And I was like, okay, what am I doing wrong? I took the chicken back in the kitchen, and I put all the chickens in little red and white paper cups like you would put French fries in and put them on the counter, and they all sold. And I thought, oh, that's so interesting. People were really accessible food. They don't want fancy food because they're eating it at home. It's different when you go to a restaurant, you want something that's interesting that you've never had before or takes a long time at home. You want simple food. You want roast chicken, roast carrots and brownies, and.

[A]

What do you say?

[C]

Really good ones. But really good ones.

[A]

And they taste good when you make them. Then they're the really good ones. But that is a thing that I think is just. It's like that thing that you capture with your cookbooks, your show, your podcast, this idea that you have everything you need. You've got it within you. It's very wizard of Oz or something, which is like, it's been in you all along.

[C]

You just don't know it's there. You just have to unleash it. Isn't that. One of the things that I really wasn't prepared for when I started writing cookbooks is people sending me gifts. They kept sending me things. I'm like, why are they. I mean, people were, like, making huge pots that they threw themselves and sending. I was like, why are people being so nice to me? And I realized that it was. I wasn't giving them something like a cookbook. I was giving them the tools to make something for themselves. And they would put it out, and people would say, you made that chocolate cake yourself? And they felt good about themselves. And that's. I think they wanted to thank me, which was so lovely. It was such a realization that it just felt very generous. It was really nice. Yeah. That we're giving people the tools to do something for themselves.

[A]

People really attach to you, Ina.

[C]

That's so sweet.

[A]

It's really sweet. I mean, I think you remind them of someone in their family. I think they feel exactly what you've taught them something. It's like teacher and mommy and, you know, Jedi Master and, like, relationship goals and all that stuff. How does it feel to get all that love and attention from people?

[C]

Well, I mean, who wouldn't like it? I mean, it sounds great when they start throwing things. We'll talk about it.

[A]

Yeah, it sounds great. Dumbest question I've ever asked.

[C]

Okay, I have a question for you. Okay, here we go. Here's your. What's your favorite New Yorker cartoon?

[A]

Oh, my God. I heard you love New Yorker cartoons.

[C]

I love New Yorker cartoons.

[A]

I don't remember any of them. Oh, really? Yes. But they're so good. Oh, no, I do remember one.

[C]

I knew you would.

[A]

Okay. Thank you for asking. For anyone under the age of 55, the New Yorker is a magazine, and you can read it in person and you flip through it like. It's like a book, but skinnier and flatter. And for those who forget, a book is a. It is a piece of rigatoni on the phone, calling somebody and saying, fusilli, you crazy bastard. How are you?

[C]

I love that you have a food one, because all of mine are food. My favorite one is a little pig sitting on the examining table in a doctor's office. And the doctor comes in with his clipboard, and he goes, I have very bad news. It's your wrist ribs. They're delicious.

[A]

Do you ever enter those contests?

[C]

No, I wouldn't have a clue. How? It amazes me that people can write those things.

[A]

Okay, me too. No, and I mean, I write. No. I write jokes for a living. One could argue. And oftentimes I'll just be staring at the picture like, stumped. Why do I stay here? And it's so funny. It's just like, I guess, hey, guys, what's going on?

[C]

I actually just saw a cartoon. It wasn't the New Yorker, but I just saw a cartoon. It was Two dogs coming up through the front door. And there were two dogs answering the door. And one of the dogs, the ones arriving, said, you know, Cheryl said, life is short. We really have to smell the roses. And you saw that there was a mailbox and it said, rose. So the dog's inside were the roses. Life is short. We really have to smell the roses. I just started laughing. I couldn't stop.

[A]

What do you like about New York?

[C]

The play on words.

[A]

The play on words, the intelligence behind it.

[C]

I just thought, what kind of a mind thought of that cartoon life is sure, we really have to go smell the roses. And they said, and here we are.

[A]

Well, you know, I usually ask this question, but I wanna ask it now, which is, what makes you laugh? What are you reading? Watching. I can tell that you like to laugh.

[C]

What makes you laugh? I do. My friends, I don't tend to watch humorous movies or shows or things like that. I just. My friends have great sense of humor and they just make me laugh all the time.

[A]

Well, how important? Being in your 70s, what do female friendships mean to you? What do your friendships mean to you?

[C]

It's everything. It's everything. I. I mean, Jeffrey's clearly my best friend, but women bring something totally different, and it's really connection. And actually, that's what I always thought that I was so pleased that I was in the food business because I could really work out the issues from my childhood, and it was just wonderful. But when I started doing Be My Guest, I realized what I was missing really is connection, and that's been just extraordinary. I've made. Well, your dear friend Tina made great friends.

[A]

You guys went out to eat.

[C]

That was so much fun.

[A]

And you're friends with Julia Louis Dreyfus.

[C]

Julia. Exactly.

[A]

Congratulations to Queens.

[C]

Isn't she the best?

[A]

Well, not only is she the best, but she spoke to us before this podcast.

[C]

Oh, she did?

[A]

We got a question. She was a special guest. We talked to Julia because.

[C]

Oh, great.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

So smart.

[A]

Oh, my God. And she said the same thing about you. She said you're really smart.

[B]

She did?

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Smarties all around and teen. All smart people. Smart, wonderful, talented women.

[C]

Smart people who have a sense of humor, have the best senses of humor.

[A]

Well, Tina has said this, which is you can tell a lot about somebody by what they laugh at.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Although that doesn't say much about me because I laugh at everything.

[C]

You just like to laugh. That's all. That's good.

[A]

But, yeah, you're right. Sense of humor is a sign of intelligence and also it's the way we just tell each other what we care about. So Julia, we spoke to Julia. She says hello.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

She was wearing a giant sun hat and going through her refrigerator when we talked to her. And she had a question for you.

[C]

You.

[A]

She said, how are you so cheerful? And then she said, and what makes you. What puts you in a bad mood?

[C]

Passive aggressive. People who tell you what you want to hear and do exactly as they please. Makes me crazy. And I can chew on them for years.

[A]

Say more about that. What do you mean? So, like someone who placates you.

[C]

I mean, we all know. Yeah, well, we all know people that if you're doing something with someone, you want to be collaborative, let's just all figure out what the issues are, what we need to do, and then together we'll make a decision. Unless it's my business, but just moving forward. And I don't like people that withhold information so that they control the situation, because then I'm making a decision without the real information. And I just find passive aggressive makes me crazy.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[C]

I mean, crazy. And you also asked how I keep my happiness, my joy. I think that it needs to be nurtured. I think we're either born with a positive or negative energy. And I think about when I do yoga and my instructor says, what does she say? Find your inner smile. I think you either walk around with an inner smile or you don't. And if you don't, I think you need to just nurture it. And I feel like I was just born this way. My parents just said I came out, like, playing with my toes and giggling. And I think it's an important thing to do. I think it makes life easier.

[A]

Yeah, it's true.

[C]

I think it's really important. And yes, we've had extraordinary lives, but we also had difficult times.

[A]

You have. You talk a lot about it in your memoir.

[C]

We've all had difficult times. Had difficult times. And how you deal with it, it's up to you.

[A]

You know, if I may, you spoke about your late in life. Would you say reconciliation with your dad? How did that.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

[C]

You know, my dad was not a great dad. He was really tough and critical. But later on, he just. We were together at a. They were giving him a party for me for my second book. So it was 2000, and he was sitting with me and he said to me one sentence that made all the difference in the world. He looked at me and he said, I don't know what I was thinking, and it makes me cry just now. And that changed our whole relationship because he felt badly about it. And he basically said, I'm sorry in that sentence. And then we went on. But my dad, I have to say, he was a tough dad, but he also gave me something when I was a child that was really important. He loved to talk through. He was. But he loved to buy real estate. So he would always talk through real estate deals, and he'd say, come in my study and talk through this deal with me. And so he taught me how to borrow money, go to the bank, borrow money. I credit him with a lot of things that I've done that don't scare me because I'm used to talking about it that way.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and also such an example of, like, you have to be open to the idea of forgiveness or the idea of letting things go. Basically, like, it shows up in all different ways. It shows up in the way you are in relationship with your husband, which is like, we just kind of don't sweat the small stuff. You just have to kind of like, you know, like, love. Love each other through hard times.

[C]

It's.

[A]

It shows up in the way that you cook, which is when there's like a mistake or an accident or like an oopsie. It's, like, funny. It's fun.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not the end of the world.

[C]

Just let it go. It's not the end of the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And.

[A]

But. But then it becomes, of course, much deeper when it has to do with your family of origin and. And deciding, like, how much you're gonna hold on to.

[C]

And it doesn't mean you always forget. I mean, every once in a while I'd have lunch with them. I can't believe I'm having lunch with this monster. But he wasn't then. He really had come around and, you know, but you have to push that away. That was then, this is now.

[A]

And, you know, there's all. We fetishize. Well, we fetishize marriage especially, you know, you know, CIS straight marriage. But we also fetishize children and people who have them. And you don't have children. What is the best thing about not having children?

[C]

Children not be responsible for them not having teenagers.

[A]

You don't want somebody who says, I.

[C]

Hate you, and no, not so much.

[A]

Crashes the car.

[C]

And are you trying to lease yours out?

[A]

Well, I mean, I don't think people, you know, there's all these studies. Married people without children are the happiest people. There's all these studies, and everyone keeps going. Well, they just haven't met my children yet, you know?

[C]

But I mean, it's amazing to me that I made that. That decision so young and that, thank God Jeffrey was okay with it, but I just can't imagine my life any other way. I've done it, done what I wanted to do. I've had just a wonderful time.

[A]

You made very countercultural decisions for a woman of your generation. You really did. But maybe I'm just projecting, but I feel like when you were working and doing all of these, making all these choices and making these big leaps and big swings, you didn't have as many women doing the same thing at the same time.

[C]

I didn't have any. I really didn't have any. I can't think of anybody that I knew at the time who made the same choices. I really can't.

[A]

And right now, as a woman running an empire.

[C]

Oh, that's not an empire.

[A]

I know.

[C]

It's an empire.

[A]

Let's start calling. I want to call more women geniuses. And I want to call more a female business. I want to call more female run businesses. Empires. Empires are not just for men.

[C]

Well, I just. I think of an empire as having a thousand employees. I have two.

[A]

You only have two employees, actually.

[C]

And a part time, part time office manager. Okay.

[A]

I want to talk to you about this. This is incredible because you've scaled down.

[C]

I just. I want to walk across the lawn to the barn where I have people that I love, and I want to cook all day. Did Tina ever tell you how she interviewed me at the Brooklyn Academy of Music?

[A]

No. Tell me about that.

[C]

So she started and she said, you know, my friends think you have this perfect life. You get up in the morning, you walk across the lawn, you cook all day, your friends come by to visit you. You go out for dinner. Your husband leaves on Monday, he comes back on Friday. And then she said, And I told my husband. I told my husband I was gonna say this. And he said, you know, I'm gonna be in the audience when you say that, right? And she was kind of right. That's really what my life is like. It's just been great.

[A]

So are you looking like you were hustling so much in the.

[C]

I worked.

[A]

I did work really hard.

[C]

Writing the memoir made me realize I worked really hard. What did you learn from your memoir that you didn't know about yourself?

[A]

Well, my relationship to work. I think about it all the time. I'm always troubling it because I get such Esteem from work. Like I get a ton of self esteem from work and I don't wanna give that up. I also get a lot of self esteem from parenting and being a parent to my kids. And like you, I feel like, like I desperately need connection with people and my friends. So all of those things and a lot of connection comes from work. But I don't know about you, but as I look ahead, it's just an interesting, like what is our relationship to work to what is enough to, you know, how do we want to shape the third act of our life? And you are a life shaper. So what do you see the last?

[C]

I don't think that far ahead.

[B]

You don't?

[C]

I just think what do I want to do? If I know what I want to do today and by the end of the day gonna decide what I'm gonna do tomorrow, it's all I need to know. It's kind of like my first book. I thought, my God, how am I gonna write a book? A whole book? And I thought, okay, I don't need to know how to write a whole book. All I need to know is what recipe I'm gonna test today and then tomorrow I'll test another recipe. And somewhere along the line, at the end of the line, I'm gonna have a book. But I don't give myself overwhelming projects. I give myself manageable bites.

[A]

Yes, I relate to that. It's just taking. I like to call it this season. Think about it in. Because the idea of like the next year is going to be fill in the blank. That's overwhelming.

[C]

It's overwhelming.

[A]

Winter season. We're going to work on this. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you know what? There's this great expression and I'm embarrassed to say, I can't remember the name of who said it.

[A]

I have a laptop. I can look it up.

[C]

J.P. morgan, I think. I think it was J.P. morgan is go as far as you can see and when you get there, you'll be able to see farther. But if you map it from here to there, you're going to limit yourself. You need map it as far as you can see. And then when you get there, there may be other options you wouldn't have even thought of when you get there. So I just like to leave myself open to what things come along. That was like, no. Not interested. Nope. Lose my number. Wait a minute, wait a minute. That's kind of interesting, actually. Come back here.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's success. Success is being able to decide what to work on.

[C]

Well, It's a surprise. I mean, you don't want to do the same thing over and over again. Yeah.

[A]

And when you were writing your memoir, how do you learn, like, to write?

[C]

Never.

[A]

No kidding. Isn't writing the worst? It's the worst. The worst people are always like, what are you doing? I'm like, anything but writing. I'm organizing my closets. I'm making amends to all my friends. Whatever it takes to not write. Okay, so fast round. Ina, are you ready? Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Here we go. Best way to cook carrots roasted with.

[C]

Olive oil, salt and pepper.

[A]

And do you enjoy a feta on there?

[C]

Yeah, I enjoy feta on anything.

[A]

Sometimes I put feta and honey on my carrots.

[C]

That's fabulous. Or balsamic vinegar. Syrupy balsamic vinegar. So good. Because the sweet carrots and the vinegar are good. I like things that have an edge. And vinegars do.

[A]

I love a vinegar. Me too. Oh, Julia wanted me to ask you this. How do you make. She's been making some sorbet, and it was very fancy. Speaking of fancy, she. She had made sorbet, and then she scooped out a lemon and put it back in the lemon. It was so cute. But she found her sorbet wasn't as creamy. It was icy. More than creamy. Any tips? She said she made it with sugar water.

[C]

Did she make it in an ice cream maker?

[A]

Great question.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. Some recipes have you just freeze it almost like a granita, and that's. That would be grainy. But if you make it in an ice cream, I'm not an expert on.

[A]

I know. I don't really love desserts. Making them, it's like a whole other world. Okay, favorite New Yorker cartoon. We got that three.

[C]

Was that on your list?

[A]

Yes, it was on my list. Cause I heard you love New Yorker cartoons, but you brought it up, James.

[C]

Oh, my God. Can I tell you my other favorite ones?

[A]

Yes, please.

[C]

Dog sitting at the bar, and the bartender walks over and he said, what can I get you? He said, I'll take a scotch and toilet water.

[A]

Do you cook on Thanksgiving?

[C]

Yes, I love Thanksgiving.

[A]

Me too.

[C]

It's just. It's like the best holiday because it's traditional things. You can make them better and. Yeah, I love Thanksgiving.

[A]

What's your new. Like, what's something you make on Thanksgiving that people would be surprised is at your table? Like, is there like, you know, like, huh. That on Thanksgiving?

[C]

Well, you know, a couple of years ago, the New York Times asked me to do a store Bought Thanksgiving. And I thought, who could ever do that? So I said, I don't think so. And then I started thinking about it and I realized that if you could take a store bought ingredient from the store and make it easier, wouldn't that be fabulous? So I went and got Pepperidge farm stuffing mix, and I made a bread pudding out of it, which was so good, it was crazy. So I have a lot of Thanksgiving things now, like, to get, like, you can actually get good mashed potatoes, but then I add sour cream and parmesan cheese and garlic, and it's just delicious. And you have no idea that there's a store bought ingredient in there.

[A]

Okay, young chefs or food writers that you're into.

[C]

I mean, I have a few people, like Erin French from Lost Kitchen. I love her. So, you know, like the other day she sent out a recipe. I'm like, oh, I'm making that. But I don't really.

[A]

What did she send out that you wanted to find?

[C]

Something that was great. Now I can't remember what it was.

[A]

Do you ever watch TikTok or Instagram reels or any of the young people that are cooking TikTok?

[C]

No, Instagram. I love. Yeah. And I just think, you know, if you're interested in gardens, you know, you see a lot of stuff on gardens. You have to be careful about not watching cute puppy things because that's all you ever get.

[A]

Do you ever see all those, like, this, like, version of the macho guy who's, like, in the woods and cuts the meat and puts it on the grill?

[C]

What are you watching?

[A]

Come on over to my fyp. Ina, your profile's different from mine. Don't all have a Jeffrey. I know we don't all have a Jeffrey. Secret ingredient that makes things better.

[C]

Oh, it's always something with an edge, like balsamic vinegar or parmesan cheese or Dijon mustard things that. A splash of red wine and a big pot of lentils. It just changes everything.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Lemon zest.

[A]

Lemon zest.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the other thing is, it's really. I learned when I started cooking later, two things. One is, you know, sometimes my anxiety needed to go somewhere. You know, sometimes it just needs to land. Like in your day, right. You have to. You're making a list of what you have to do for your kids or do for your work or whatever. And I found, like, thinking about what I was gonna make was a really nice to put my anxiety to sleep for a while.

[C]

Yeah. Because you know what it is, the thing about Jeffrey always says about me, cooking is hard, and if it weren't hard, I wouldn't be interested in it. It's the challenge. And if you're doing something that's really hard, you just put everything else out of your mind. And I think that's one of the things I love about cooking. I mean, when I start, when I invite people over, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be so much fun. And they're like. And then I'm like, why did I invite you? Oh, my God.

[A]

Everybody relates to that. Everybody relates to that, like, very relaxed, oh, shit feeling. And I just want to say, you brought up a lemon zest. And I will say that for people who are learning how to cook, I would say, reward yourself with a tool, a zester. Because when I got a zester, I was like, look at me. Look at me. Isn't it the best? I was like. And I would just take it out. And you just like, look at this. Because, you know, sometimes we need a little treat at the end of our learning. And get yourself a zester.

[C]

And don't keep it forever.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah. You can't sharpen it like a knife. Oh, right. It gets too sharp after a couple of years. Get a new one.

[A]

Throw it right in the ocean. Okay. Anything you refuse to cook. Like, anything. You're like, no.

[C]

It's so funny. We were just talking about this thing the other day. Really? I was with a friend, and we were talking about what our mothers used to make. It was like, Monday it was one thing, Tuesday it was something else. Tongue. That's a tough one. Tongue was on her list. And liver and onions was on her list.

[A]

Liver and onions.

[C]

Never need to cook either one of them. But also things that are really complicated, like, you know, I don't know. There's. I mean, like, bouillabaisse. A really good bouillabaiss takes forever.

[A]

I don't know what a bouillabaisse actually is.

[C]

Fish stew.

[A]

Okay. Which I heard Jeffrey doesn't like.

[C]

No, no, no. I made a fish stew. It was the only thing I ever made that he didn't like. It was terrible.

[A]

But that's not considered a bouillabaisse.

[C]

It wasn't a bouillabaisse. A good bouillabaisse literally cooks for days.

[A]

And it's good.

[C]

All the bones and the heads and the stock and all that stuff.

[A]

I mean, the idea of, like, making your own stock to me is. I mean, that's just like, a level of. There's just certain levels where you think, like, maybe someday I'll do that.

[C]

You're gonna come visit me.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And we're gonna make chicken stock. And you won't believe how easy it is and what an incredible difference it makes. You take a big pot, and you put, like, 10 things in it, and you cook it for four hours.

[A]

I love something that you can cook forever and forget it.

[C]

Just set a timer. I leave the house, I come back, it's fine.

[A]

That was the thing about why everyone got into sourdough during the COVID is Cause everyone was like, it takes three days. And everyone was like, I need something.

[C]

That's exactly what I don't do.

[A]

Bay leaves do anything. Or is this some kind of conspiracy?

[C]

Oh, it's so funny, David Remnick, that the New Yorker and I had a long conversation about this. Beats me.

[A]

You're not ready to.

[C]

My guess is that fresh bay leaves can make a difference. There's, like, an undertone that you can taste. Bay leaves that have been in your spice drawer for 40 years? I don't think so.

[A]

And also, fresh bay leaves. One needs to plan ahead for weeks to get. Like, when you see a thing that says fresh bay leaves, it's like, I'm out. I mean, actually, it's true. Sometimes in recipes, you'll be chugging along, and then you see something, you're like, you know what? I'm out. I just can't do it. I just can't get fresh bay leaves.

[C]

That's why when I'm writing a recipe, I always say to myself, when I'm doing a book, is somebody gonna look at the photograph and go, that looks delicious. Look at the recipe and go, I actually can find all those ingredients in the grocery store, and it's simple enough for me to make.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And that was, like, from my first book to the one I'm working on now. It has to be all those things.

[A]

It has to be.

[C]

If you see, you know, like, you see an ingredient you've never heard of, is that like an alcohol, or is that like, a spice? I have no idea.

[A]

Absolutely. And then you also have that ingredient in your cupboard for years to come, and it mocks you. You're like, why did I buy Za'?

[C]

Atar?

[A]

I'm never gonna use this again.

[C]

Oh, it's exactly the spice I was thinking of.

[A]

Come see our Zatar comedy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, oh, I'm never gonna use this again. And I see it every time I open the thing. Okay. And then the last question and apologies for my language, but have you heard? Did you watch the White Lotus?

[C]

I. Not all.

[A]

Well, there's this term that's happening right now, like, where she has a cunty bob. And you. Sorry, Ina. Sorry, Ina. I apologize. But you've had a bob for a very long time. You have great hair.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And you have a very sharp. It's. It's gone different lengths, of course, in life a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But what do you enjoy about having a bob? And are you aware that you're very on trend?

[C]

Very on trend.

[A]

On trend.

[C]

I am. Oh, no. I have no idea.

[A]

Everyone's getting a bob.

[C]

Do you know, when I first got that haircut, I was 25 years old. I lived in Washington. I had hair all the way down my back. And I had heard a friend of mine went to a salon at the Watergate, and it was run by a man, Sylvain Maloul, who had just come to the United States, and she had a bob. And I went right to him and I had him cut my hair like that. And, you know, I've never changed it. It's been the same haircut since I was 25. I've tried a few. Every once in a while, I try something else. I'm gonna go, no, I'm going right back to where I started.

[A]

It's a perfect bob. But now, I mean, everyone is going for it.

[C]

It's so funny.

[A]

Every gen zer is cutting their hair. And also, you know, it's like feeling very brave while they do it.

[C]

Well, you have a bob, right? It looks great.

[A]

I mean. I mean, I kind of. I'm at the point where my hair just kind of cut like, it just doesn't really. It doesn't really grow that long.

[C]

Oh, that's really interesting. You know, the French always say that if your hair is short, it shows your ensemble better. That if your hair is long, it's not the right profile.

[A]

How much time do you spend in France?

[C]

As much as possible, yes.

[A]

And do you speak French?

[C]

Badly enough to. Enough to deal with a greengrocer.

[A]

Oh, you do?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they'll speak it back to you. Did you take lessons?

[C]

No, just from being there. I mean, from high school. From high school French? Yeah.

[B]

Do you?

[C]

I dream that someday I'm going to live there and full time and go to Berlitz. But it hasn't happened yet.

[A]

Well, you never know. You never know because I know the one thing I've learned is, like, there's just. The sky's the limit. I mean, and I feel like that is really like the. The theme of a lot of what we talked about today is just that there is. There's no reason why, there's no timeline as to when things are supposed to happen in your life. You get married really early, you start your business later. You're writing a memoir at this age, there's all these different ways in which you're just deciding what you want to do next. And you're the architect of your own life, basically.

[C]

And do it now, don't wait. I think a lot of people say, well, first I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to do what I really do. What you really want to do now.

[A]

Ayna, thank you so much for the presents, for the strawberries, for the prosecco, for the fake chicken. I feel like lousy with gifts.

[C]

Someday I'll make you a real chicken.

[A]

I can't wait.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Thank you so much for coming.

[C]

It really meant so much.

[A]

It was really fun.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much. Ina, that was so great. What a great conversation. And I loved talking to you. And, you know, I hope that this episode gets you hungry. I know it did me. And it made me think about all the stuff I want to go home and cook. And so for this polar plunge, I just wanted to share something that I like to cook. My recipe, kind of a Go to recipe that I do a lot, which is just a very, kind of simple chicken curry. I get chicken breasts with bone in chicken breasts, and I put it in a pot with some rice, chicken. Chicken stock, bunch of curry, coconut milk. Sometimes I'll throw in some chickpeas, throw in some parsley, make it look green, put it in the oven slow, cook it. And that shit's amazing. Okay? You look like a million dollars. You can, you know, you wanna brown the chicken first, right? You wanna brown it in a pan first. Then you put it in with the uncooked rice. You put whatever it is, two cups of rice to whatever it is, three cups of chocolate chicken stock, put some coconut milk in, put it in. Tons of curry, put it in the oven. 375 for like an hour. Keep checking it, stirring the rice if you need to. You take it out, you put it on the table. People think you're a genius. You can serve it from the pot, you can serve the rice, take the chicken. And Bob's your uncle. So that's my chicken curry. You can tell how I don't have a cooking show. Cause I'm not great at explaining it. But you get it, you get it. You can do it. I believe in you. All right, thanks, everyone, for listening. Bye. You've been listening to good hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss Berman and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by the Ringer and Paper Kite. For the Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, cat Spillane, Kaia McMullen and Alaya Zaneris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell and Genois Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.