Podcast Episode Summary
Podcast: Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Episode: ADHD Beyond the Label with Penn and Kim Holderness
Release Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Dr. Becky Kennedy
Guests: Penn and Kim Holderness

Episode Overview

This episode explores ADHD beyond its clinical diagnosis with guests Penn and Kim Holderness—parents, creators, and authors of "ADHD is Awesome" and their new children’s book, "All You Can Be with ADHD." Together with Dr. Becky, they discuss reframing ADHD from a “disorder” into a difference, highlighting gifts, emotional depth, and creative strengths. They candidly share personal stories, practical parenting strategies, and emphasize the importance of understanding and supporting deeply feeling kids. The conversation is rich with empathy, humor, and actionable advice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Experiences with ADHD

• Penn's Diagnosis Journey
  • Diagnosed at 20, struggled with "feeling deeply," emotional overwhelm, and being constantly corrected as a child.
  • “I cried a lot. Not just as a toddler, but in middle school… Getting the explanation when I was 20 was at least a good start in the right direction.” (03:22)
• Kim’s Perspective as a Parent and Partner
  • Emotional dysregulation often overlooked; realized how it impacted both her son’s childhood and her marriage.
  • “The emotional component… people often don’t talk about. My son, when he lost a basketball game… Could not be consoled. Felt everything so deeply.” (04:53)

2. The Problem with the “Disorder” Label

• The language around ADHD is inherently negative, leaving out key aspects like emotional regulation and focusing instead on deficits.
  • “The name's terrible. We don't have a deficit of attention… Many of us, including most girls who are underdiagnosed, it's not hyperactive. It's inattentive. That's not in the name... A more accurate term would be a brain difference.” (08:22–08:54)
• Diagnosis can initially feel heavy—even for parents immersed in ADHD awareness—evoking feelings akin to receiving a dire medical diagnosis.
  • “It felt like we got this really awful medical diagnosis... It was going to be just like this really hard thing that he was going to suffer with the rest of his life.” (09:41)

3. Reframing ADHD: Strengths & Coaching

• Diagnosis as a tool for understanding, not as a limitation.
  • Dr. Becky’s Basketball Analogy: A diagnosis can empower you to coach and support better, rather than resigning to limitations. (10:36)
  • “Nothing has changed about your kid. Like your kid before the label and after is no different." (10:36)
• Strengths-based teaching versus focusing exclusively on correcting deficits. (11:59–12:00)

4. Connection Over Correction

• Leading with empathy and connection calms overwhelm and supports problem-solving, both in children and relationships.
  • “The hard thing to do is to start with the connection. But… there is a palpable difference in our son, as well as in me, when [Kim] makes that connection happen.” (13:05)
• Dr. Becky’s Visual: Emotional overwhelm as a bubble that needs containment—a “container” created by parental connection enables kids to access their skills.
  • “Offering connection is a form of containment. When you say to someone, ‘I used to feel like that…’ you’re giving a container for someone’s feelings...” (15:47)
• Shame Spiral vs. Support Staircase
  • Penn: “It’s the difference between a shame spiral and a support staircase.” (16:24)
  • Support and understanding help foster accountability more than shame or blame. (16:58–18:31)

5. Deeply Feeling Kid Framework

• The concept helped Penn understand his emotional experiences in a nonjudgmental way, offering validation for himself and his child.
  • “Not only is [deeply feeling kid] the perfect explanation, but it’s also non-negative. It's not crybaby… If I'd heard ‘deeply feeling kid’ as a child, I think it acknowledges that… that's a skill.” (19:00–20:42)
• Dr. Becky: “A kid’s deepest fear is actually being un-understandable… If no one believes me, it's like, do I exist? Am I real?” (20:43)
• Emphasizes the overlap and connection between ADHD and emotional intensity.

6. Practical Strategies at Home

• Removing the ‘Right’ Path:
  • Celebrating multiple ways of succeeding; “finding where you’re awesome” rather than enforcing conformity.
  • “We make this a family practice… when we see [our son] doing something amazing that only his brain can do...” (24:17)
• Routines & Systems:
  • Digital calendars, multiple alarms, prepping for tomorrow, family flexibility.
  • Humor and strengths-based language help, e.g., “I will take care of my tomorrow self by…” (27:14–27:52)
  • Kim: “There's more than one way to do this.” (26:32)
• Finding Community & Creative Outlets:
  • Improv comedy and writing leveraged as positive environments for their son’s spontaneity and creativity. (25:55–26:32)
  • Supporting strengths in environments where ADHD traits shine.

7. Advice for Parents & Kids Navigating Diagnosis

• For Parents:
  • Don’t fear the diagnosis. It’s a gateway to understanding, not a limitation.
  • Penn: “This is going to take a lot of your fears away… That same brain is capable of things a neurotypical person cannot do.” (33:04)
• For Kids:
  • You are not alone; nothing is wrong with you. Your brain is cool and full of potential.
  • “You are not alone and there is nothing inherently wrong with you. You have a really cool brain.” (34:05)

8. Their Children’s Book: Meeting Kids Where They Are

• Developed after hearing directly from kids at signings who wanted something accessible to them.
  • Kim: “…we had the opportunity to go to a lot of book signings… and there would be so many kids there and… they were trying… to read it. But really, it wasn't meant for an 8 year old… So it came because they literally said like, you have to make a book for us.” (34:33–35:26)
• Favorite Book Moment:
  • Penn: “If you answer, yes, you are so very brave. And that's my favorite.” (35:50)
  • Kids’ pride and relief at being seen and acknowledged: “There was pride, but there was like an acknowledgement of like, oh, my God, you know that too. You know what that feels like.” (36:16)

9. Rapid Fire: Insights and Misconceptions

• ADHD has taught Kim patience; Penn’s stopped apologizing for fidgeting; Kim celebrates her son’s comedic creativity; Penn sees “making things fun” as an ADHD parenting strength. (38:10–39:22)
• Biggest Misconception:
  • Penn: ADHD is more than executive function—it’s about emotions.
  • Kim: ADHD is not an intellectual or academic deficit.
  • “You can get all A's and have ADHD.” (40:13)

10. Closing - Celebration and Acceptance

• Celebrate moments of flow and happiness, notice and champion your child’s unique strengths.
  • “Celebrate those moments when your child is truly happy and feeling the flow.” (41:03)
• Dr. Becky: ADHD as a lens to understand, not to limit; “two things are true: it’s hard, and it’s amazing.” (37:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ADHD as a “difference”:

  • Penn: “We don’t have a deficit of attention. We have plenty of attention. We just focus it in the wrong place… A more accurate term would be a brain difference.” (08:22–08:54)

• Reframing diagnosis:

  • Dr. Becky: “Nothing has changed about your kid. Like your kid before the label and after is no different.” (10:36)

• On emotional support:

  • Kim: “If I come at him screaming… it’s going to make him feel great shame… but if I say, ‘Hey, this must have been a lot to manage,’” (15:47)
  • Penn: “It’s the difference between a shame spiral and a support staircase.” (16:24)

• On deeply feeling kids:

  • Penn: “If I'd heard ‘deeply feeling kid’ as a child… that's a skill to be able to feel deeply.” (20:42)
  • Dr. Becky: “A kid’s deepest fear is actually being un-understandable… if no one believes me… do I exist? Am I real?” (20:43)

• On strengths and creativity:

  • Kim: “He spots things in this world and makes them so funny, and I don't know another brain that could do that.” (39:05)
  • Penn: “Making things fun… my ADHD creativity has helped with that.” (39:22)

• Ending humor:

  • Penn: “It was Coach K's last game, and Carolina beat Duke. And my son took his shirt off and waved it like a helicopter... I'm sorry, have I hit a nerve?” (41:34)
  • Dr. Becky (jokingly): “I don't even know if I'm gonna air this episode… you bring together the truth, naming hard things, naming amazing things, deshaming, humor like that all can be part of one dance.” (42:01)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:22] – Penn’s personal journey with ADHD
• [04:53] – Kim discusses emotional dysregulation and parenting
• [08:22–08:54] – Critique of the label “ADHD”
• [10:36] – Reframing diagnosis via basketball analogy
• [15:47] – Emotional containment and “offering connection”
• [16:24] – “Shame spiral” vs. “support staircase”
• [19:00–20:42] – The power of “deeply feeling kid”
• [24:17] – Family systems and celebrating strengths
• [27:14–27:52] – Building routines, “taking care of tomorrow self”
• [33:04] – Advice for newly diagnosed families
• [34:33–35:26] – Motivation behind the children’s book
• [35:50] – Book’s message of bravery and recognition
• [38:10–39:41] – Rapid fire strengths, shifts, and apologies
• [41:03] – Final message: celebrate flow and happiness

Final Takeaway

Dr. Becky, Penn, and Kim challenge listeners to reimagine ADHD as a different, deeply feeling way of being—rich with creativity, spontaneity, and empathy—rather than a deficit or disorder. They encourage parents to seek understanding, lead with connection, celebrate strengths, and help kids (and themselves) thrive in their unique ways.