Dealing with Feelings: A Conversation With Dr. Marc Brackett

Summary

Good Inside with Dr. Becky: "Dealing with Feelings: A Conversation With Dr. Marc Brackett"

Host: Dr. Becky Kennedy
Guest: Dr. Marc Brackett, Founding Director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence
Date: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Dr. Becky Kennedy speaks with Dr. Marc Brackett—a leading expert on emotional intelligence and author of Permission to Feel and Dealing with Feeling. The discussion centers on understanding emotions as essential data rather than problems to solve or feelings to eliminate. Together, they dive into the importance of emotional literacy for both parents and children, practical strategies for coping and co-regulating, and how to foster resilience. Dr. Brackett’s own personal story anchors the conversation, highlighting how early adversity inspired a lifelong mission to help others navigate their emotional worlds.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Brackett’s Personal Journey

• Early Struggles and Resilience
  • Dr. Brackett opens up about a traumatic childhood marked by abuse and bullying, and how these experiences left him emotionally isolated.

    “I just feel like my emotional life was kind of robbed from me as a kid… I ate [my feelings], I cried them, I banged my head them. I did everything that you would call unhealthy to deal with them.” (02:32, Dr. Marc Brackett)

• The Transformative Role of Uncle Marvin
  • His uncle, a teacher developing a feelings curriculum, moved in and simply asked: “How are you feeling?”—a turning point for Dr. Brackett at age 11.

    “He asked me the simple question that guides my work, which is, how are you feeling? No one asked me that question.” (03:51, Dr. Marc Brackett)

  • This early validation led to a career devoted to studying and teaching emotional literacy.

The Science and Practice of Emotional Intelligence

• Emotions as Data, Not Problems

  • Emotions are signals providing crucial information about ourselves and our environment.

    “Emotions are signals. They tell us to approach or avoid. … Emotions are information.” (14:50, Dr. Marc Brackett)

  • Five key roles of emotions: attention, decision making, relationships, mental health, and performance. (14:50–16:54)

• No ‘Good’ or ‘Bad’ Emotions

  • The binary of positive versus negative is unhelpful—instead, every emotion has a purpose.

    “There’s no positive or negative feelings. Emotions are data, information, as we said.” (17:58, Dr. Marc Brackett)

  • Attempting to eliminate unpleasant feelings is not only unworkable—it robs us of important growth opportunities.

• Emotion Regulation is Learned, Not Innate

  • Most people were never formally taught emotion regulation—during the pandemic, only 10% of people reported such education at home, 6–7% at school.

    “There is no area of your brain called emotion regulation. It is 100% learned.” (10:15, Dr. Marc Brackett)

Parenting: From Theory to Practice

• Early Disappointments Build Skills

  • Shielding children from all discomfort undermines their ability to build resilience. Those who face challenges early—speech delays, missed opportunities—must develop self-worth and grit internally. (07:37–12:47)
  • Parents should see setbacks (not being invited, not getting ‘the best’ role) as vital practice moments for later life.

• The Myth of the ‘Quick Fix’

  • There’s no one-size-fits-all regulation strategy; needs shift according to developmental stage and life circumstances.

    “People are so obsessed with the quick fix... what’s the one strategy that helped me deal with my feelings? I’m like, I don’t have the answer for that. I’m sorry.” (12:47, Dr. Marc Brackett)

• Two Harmful Extremes in Emotion Socialization

  • Dismissing/ignoring: “Suck it up, you’re on your own, kiddo.” (30:18, Dr. Marc Brackett)
  • Enabling/indulging: Overreacting, canceling plans, or letting emotions dictate reality (“We're going to talk about how you feel for the next eight hours”).
  • Healthier Middle Ground:
    • Validate emotions, open curiosity (“Tell me what happened, what’s going on?”), but maintain belief in your child’s capability to cope.

    “As a parent, I believe you and I believe in you.” (32:02, Dr. Becky Kennedy)

    • Shift from “I’ll fix this for you” to “I know you can get through this.”

• What Creates the Best Conditions for Children?

  • In Dr. Brackett’s research, the adults who made a positive difference were:
    1. Non-judgmental
    2. Listened well
    3. Compassionate
       Notably, “no one ever says the person who created the best conditions for them… was smart or a problem solver.” (34:13, Dr. Marc Brackett)

Practical Strategies & Takeaways

• The Power of Permission to Feel

  • Allow emotions space, name them, and welcome them without panic or shame (“Hi, anxiety, welcome.”).

• Self-Awareness is Not Self-Indulgence

  • Contrary to critics, brief check-ins, and increased self-awareness are not about ruminating all day, but about calibrating reactions and staying proactive. (23:47-23:58)

• Modeling Emotional Regulation

  • Authentically share your emotional process with your kids—e.g., “Daddy had a rough day, I need a few minutes to settle, then we’ll play.” (39:06–41:29)
  • Normalize not always being at your best. Use self-talk that demonstrates reflection and problem solving.

• Fathers’ Role (Often Missing)

  • Only 3% identify their father as the person who gave them ‘permission to feel’. Dads must become more emotionally available and involved. (39:06–41:29)

• Reground in Your Parenting Values

  • Before a tough moment, visualize and reaffirm the type of parent you want to be (present, curious, connected).

• Three Practical Mindset Shifts (Top Takeaways)

  1. “There’s no such thing as a bad emotion.”
  2. Move from self-criticism/other-criticism to self-compassion/other-compassion, breaking generational cycles of gaslighting.
  3. Adopt an ‘other-orientation’—cultivate curiosity about others’ feelings, not just your own (including your children and even in-laws). (46:14–49:01)

• Doing ‘Nothing’ Is Sometimes a Powerful Choice

  • Allow children the space to process before jumping in or demanding immediate apologies. (37:24–38:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Growth From Disappointment:

  “If getting rejected when you applied to college, if that is your first experience with disappointment ever… why would you have coping skills as an 18-year-old that are any different than, I don’t know, a six-month-old?” (09:43, Dr. Becky Kennedy)

• On Emotional Data:

  “Emotions are signals. They tell us to approach or avoid… They ensure our survival. They help us to thrive in life.” (14:50, Dr. Marc Brackett)

• On ‘Permission to Feel’:

  “The first strategy for healthy regulation is permission to feel.” (19:33, Dr. Marc Brackett)

• On Parental Curiosity:

  “There’s no relationship. And in some ways, in that moment, you also have no curiosity. Your curiosity is shut down.” (30:38, Dr. Becky Kennedy)

• On Modeling Emotional Openness:

  “What if it looked a little different? What if it was: Honey, I recognize you want to play…Daddy had a really rough day at work…If it’s okay with you…I need a few minutes to settle, and then we’ll play.” (39:06, Dr. Marc Brackett)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Personal Backstory & Uncle Marvin’s Influence – [02:32–04:19]
• Development of Emotional Intelligence Work – [04:37–07:37]
• Praising Grit vs. Natural Talent; Grit and Growth Mindset – [07:37–09:43]
• Emotion Regulation is Learned/Statistics on Emotional Literacy – [10:15–11:22]
• Emotions as Data (Five Purposes) – [14:50–16:54]
• No Good or Bad Emotions, Just Data – [17:25–17:58]
• Regulating Emotions: Permission to Feel – [19:33–19:48]
• The Problem with Extremes (‘Dismiss’ vs. ‘Indulge’) – [29:28–32:02]
• How to Respond: Non-Judgment, Listening, Compassion – [34:13–35:20]
• On ‘Doing Nothing’ and Creating Space for Processing – [37:24–38:29]
• Role Modeling as Parents; Getting More Dads Involved – [39:06–41:29]
• Actionable Parenting Mindsets (Top 3 Takeaways) – [46:14–49:01]

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Final Practical Takeaways

• Embrace and validate all emotions as useful data.
• Shift out of binary thinking: feelings don’t need fixing or erasure.
• Practice brief, non-judgmental check-ins with yourself and your children.
• Find the middle way—hold space for emotion and simultaneously project belief in your child's resilience.
• Don’t strive to be the ‘fixer’; prioritize listening, presence, and compassion.
• Dedicate yourself to regular self-reflection, regrounding in values, and modeling healthy emotional processing.

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Further Resources

• Dr. Marc Brackett’s latest book: Dealing with Feeling
• Website: marcbrackett.com

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This summary was designed to provide a comprehensive, engaging recap of the episode, rich in actionable insights and key moments for parents and caregivers seeking to deepen their understanding and skills in emotional intelligence.

Transcript

[Dr. Becky]

Today I'm talking with Dr. Mark Brackett.

[Podcast Host]

Mark is the founding director of the Yale center for Emotional Intelligence. He's the author of Permission to Feel and he's the author of his brand new book dealing with feeling. Dr. Brackett has developed a framework that helps kids, parents and educators build emotional literacy skills for recognizing, naming and working with emotions in ways that help us thrive and get in touch with our capability. I've known Mark for a while and he is one of my favorite people to talk with. So you are really in for a treat. I think you'll think about emotions in a different way, you'll think about coping in a different way and without a doubt you'll end with practical strategies you can use today. I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. We'll be back right after this. When it comes to school snacks, I've never been the pack my kid a portable charcuterie board kind of parent. If you are more power to you. I'm more of a grab and go type. I want something simple, nutritious and easy for my kids to reach as we're heading out the door. That's why I like Chomps. Their full size meat sticks have 10 grams of protein and zero sugar. They're filling and made from real ingredients so it's one less thing to think about. And if you've ever opened your kid's backpack to find a half eaten snack from who knows when still wrapped up in there. Chomp lings are great. They're smaller sticks, the right size to toss in a lunchbox or that little front backpack pocket with 4 grams of protein and zero sugar. Chomps are made of high quality ingredients like 100% grass fed beef, venison and antibiotic free turkey. They're also free from the top nine allergens so you don't have to worry about sending them to school. Check out all the sizes and delicious [e-mail] DrBecky for 15% plus free shipping. That's C-H O M P S.com D R B E C K Y.

[Dr. Becky]

So happy to have you here today.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Thank you.

[Dr. Becky]

So many things I want to talk about but let's just start with you and kind of what brings you to this work. So you spent your whole career basically studying emotions, right? And as parents emotions are at the center of our lives. Parents, emotions, kids emotions, emotions about in laws. There's a lot of emotions. I just want to know what really drew you to this work in the first place.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, since we're talking with A parenting expert. I'll be frank. I just feel like my emotional life was kind of robbed from me as a kid. I had terrible abuse in my childhood and a lot of bullying and just felt like there was no place to go with my feelings. So what did I do? I ate them, I cried them, I banged my head them. I did everything that you would call unhealthy to deal with them.

[Dr. Becky]

And just before we continue, because I know that probably that led into so much research, and you really took that and turned it into a whole journey. All those things you were naming, I just have to say, were incredibly adaptive things to figure out as a kid, because emotions are. They're so powerful, you can't stop them. So if you don't have coping skills or you don't have support, you gotta. Gotta go somewhere.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I left people in a very, like, dark place with that opening. But I am blessed also because I had an uncle who was my mother's brother. His name was Uncle Marvin. And he was a teacher by day and a band leader by night in the Catskill Mountains who happened to be writing a curriculum to teach kids about feelings, who happened to live with us one summer at the right time when I just shared what was happening and totally transformed my life.

[Dr. Becky]

How old were you?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I was 11.

[Dr. Becky]

He was with you the summer when you were 11?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. And it just. Everything changed because he asked me the simple question that guides my work, which is, how are you feeling? No one asked me that question. I think people were afraid to ask me how I was feeling.

[Dr. Becky]

Did that feel really scary or really amazing at the time or both?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I think it felt relieving because I was trapped and this person actually cared and, as I say, gave me permission to feel.

[Dr. Becky]

The next time we talk, we're gonna do a full episode just on that. We're not gonna talk about your researcher book at all. Okay. I told you we would talk about those things today. And I keep my word. So how did that shape a lot of your career? And then can you talk a little about the research you've done around that, too?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, so Uncle Marvin kind of saved my life. Things got better for me. I still, you know, you know, things still were difficult. You know, I wasn't sure who I was and what I was going to do with my life. And then when I got to college, I, you know, majored in psychology and I double majored in Spanish and criminal justice and had all these different interests. And then I was still like, what am I going to do with my life. And then I was in therapy, and it was around 1994, 95, and all of a sudden, this big book came out called Emotional Intelligence. And I was like, this is my uncle. It wasn't my uncle who wrote the book. It was Daniel Goleman. But I devoured that book because it just reminded me of all my experiences with my uncle. And he was a journalist. But I saw these two names that were like, the theoreticians, and I called them both up and I said, I think I want to get my PhD and study with you. The long story short on that one, because you have a lot of parents who want their kids to go to great colleges. I got rejected from Yale. Basically the home of your research. Yeah, exactly. And I didn't have the test scores and the grade point averages to get in, or the pedigree and the experience, but I went to the University of New Hampshire and then got my job at Yale later. The joke, by the way, just as a quick aside, was at my tenure party, the president of Yale, who was the person who rejected me as his student, is like, and you've done just amazing work, and we're so proud of you. I'm like, I want to remind you that you rejected me 100%. But I think that's an important piece, too. In terms of emotion regulation, which is my research. Not everything happens when you want it to happen. And in my research, what I find is that if you don't have the strategies to deal with those feelings, oftentimes your dreams don't come true.

[Dr. Becky]

Those feelings, if we just even use your story as context. I don't know.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Disappointment, Disappointment, anxiety, frustration.

[Dr. Becky]

Overwhelm, embarrassment for some people. Right.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Shame, shame, you know? Yeah, they're all there. And I think that's one thing that's really interesting for me, because I was not the. I didn't come from a family that was very into education, and I have two brothers, and we all have doctorates. So we're always like, we were together last weekend, and every time we get together, we're always like, how do we end up all becoming doctors? But I study and I work with people who all have perfect SAT scores. They all have amazing grade point averages. They all play instruments I never heard of. They all have traveled to countries I didn't know were ever on the map, all to get into this place. And the assumption I had when I was a young professor was, everyone's going to be successful, because, gosh, look at the credentials. And now, after 23 years I've seen otherwise.

[Dr. Becky]

I don't know if this will take us off on a tangent. It'll be like a side quest. We'll come back to the main quest. But I have three kids and one of my kids especially, just things come really easily. Like someone told me this term, he's like a life natural, like he's been here before. Right. And people are surprised when I say that that's the kid I worry the most about.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Sure.

[Dr. Becky]

Versus another one of my kids had major speech delays, like had to work so hard. Things definitely don't come as easily. And I think about the grittiness and resilience and also how much that child has to build self worth inside out because there's no opportunity to build it based on all of the accolades. Right. And I just wonder if that's related to what you're talking about.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, what you're reminding me of is the research which shows that, you know, for kids who are naturally kind of talented and skilled, we tend to praise them for that as opposed to praise them for their effort. And the research is pretty clear that praising for like, amazing job, you're so talented, you're so amazing. Gosh, you hit that ball, you know.

[Dr. Becky]

Right.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Doesn't actually help them develop resilience and skills. And then later on I say this also, it's funny you brought this up because you would assume that a lot of my students would have a growth mindset. They don't. They only want the A. I always joke, I teach this course on emotional intelligence and I have like, you know, all these different experiences that I want them to have. I want them to learn the skills and practice the skills. And they're like, what do I need to get the A and the test? Like, I want to memorize the correlation coefficient between, you know, I'm like, I don't remember the correlation coefficient. It's my own research.

[Dr. Becky]

Seriously.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

That's not what this is about. This is about like learning a set of skills that are going to help you in life.

[Dr. Becky]

Well, you know, and you and I, I feel like whenever we talk, just go off each other all day long. This is going to be a 19 hour podcast, listeners. It will not just stay with us. But one of the things I always think about is we can't develop skills for emotions we don't allow ourselves to have.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Correct.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. And we also just can't develop skills to manage emotions that we don't have. So if we think about if getting rejected when you applied to college, if. And it wasn't for you. But if that is your first experience with disappointment ever, because you are so kind of, quote, naturally talented or maybe life has been made, you know, smoother for you, Whatever it was, why would you have coping skills as an 18 year old that are any different than, I don't know, a six month old?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

You wouldn't, you wouldn't.

[Dr. Becky]

No one gifts them to you by age.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, my argument, which is based in my research, is that we weren't born that way. There is no area of your brain called emotion regulation. It is 100% learned. 100% learned. And my research shows, and I cover this in my book, which is that I studied thousands of people during the pandemic and after the pandemic because I was really curious because I struggled a lot dealing with my own feelings during the pandemic. I mean, my mother in law moved in. It was like a whole crazy thing and I failed a lot and I go to bed at night. But Mark, you're the director of the center for Emotional Intelligence. It's like, who cares? He's not very good at this right now. And I really took that to heart in terms of, like, here I am as a researcher and an expert, but I was not doing well at it. And so I started studying people and what I found among tens of thousands of people, only 10% of people said they had any education in emotions or emotion regulation at home and like 6 to 7% at school. So we have people who are running around without knowing or using these evidence based skills.

[Dr. Becky]

I think people, it's interesting call them soft skills. I was actually just talking to a university yesterday about kind of their education curriculum and we were talking about like reversing that, like how helpful it is. How, how helpful is it to have amazing mathematical skills if you have no frustration tolerance?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly.

[Dr. Becky]

Not helpful. It's actually a precondition to use your cognitive skills. You and I, I know we see this similarly. And so, yeah, I just think it's a really powerful thing to think about when your kids especially are younger. The times when they don't get invited to that birthday party or don't make the soccer team or I always think about something that happened with one of my kids where they all got assigned in their grade kind of these special projects. And some of these projects are amazing and very cool opportunities. And some of them frankly are just like, I don't know, fairly mundane. And there's also the factor of whether you're with your crew of friends or whether you're with totally random kids in the first year of these projects, my kid in that grade had no friends and got, I truly think, one of the worst projects. Right? And I did. And I do think about this. Like, I had. I didn't say this to him, but I have this sick joy of, like, okay, this is where the stuff is made. This is it. Because when he's older, he's probably not gonna have Special project week, but he's gonna be disappointed. He's gonna be left out. He's gonna have fomo. He's gonna not get what he wants. And if he's not building these skills now, well, the stakes are only higher then.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Agree. And it's developmental, as you know. And so when I needed, you know, in kindergarten was different than what I needed in middle school, than high school. Then. Now, I mean, I'm 55. I run a center at a university. You know, the world's in a weird place right now. Everybody's activated. And so the regulation strategies that I have to apply in my life now are not the same ones that I needed when I was 5 or 10 or 15. And I think that's the beauty of the work. It's also what makes people afraid of it. It's why I think people are so obsessed with the quick fix, you know? Cause it's like, what's the one strategy that helped me deal with my feelings? I'm like, I don't have the answer for that. I'm sorry.

[Dr. Becky]

I get that all the time, too.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Becky]

I have one kid tantruming, another kid's drawing with Sharpie on the wall, a kid screaming, I hate you. What would you do? I was like, I have no idea.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Right?

[Dr. Becky]

I don't know.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Take a deep breath. And people think that's the answer for everything. Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

There's always a moment, maybe two weeks.

[Dr. Becky]

Into the school year where I stop.

[Podcast Host]

And think, wait, wasn't summer just five minutes ago?

[Dr. Becky]

Suddenly, we're back in the rush of.

[Podcast Host]

Packing lunches, signing permission slips, struggling to find a pair of matching every morning. And that's why I've started looking ahead to fall breaks now, before the long weekend creeps up on me and feels less like a break and more like being stuck at home for three days with three kids. My go to for a quick getaway, booking an Airbnb. It's a reset that still feels like home. Games and toys for the kids, a big living room for family, movie nights, and even bunk beds that kids claim are way better than our beds at home. Plus, do you ever think about how you can Host your own home on Airbnb for another family to enjoy while you're away. It's a great way to earn a little extra income to put toward your own trip, school supplies, or next season's cleats. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Dr. Becky]

You talk about emotions as data, correct? So just. Can you expand on that?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Emotions are signals. They tell us to approach or avoid. So I'm looking at your facial expression right now. I'm looking at your body language. I'm listening to the tone of your voice, and it's telling me, like, mark, you're welcome here. Or Mark, like, I'm not interested in you. I'm getting the former, just so you know. But that's what emotions are for. They ensure our survival. They help us to thrive in life. Yeah, and I argue that emotions are information. And there are five reasons why every parent, every leader, every teacher should care. The first is that emotions drive attention. So, for example, if you were bored with me right now, well, I would dislike you a lot. But it would be that there's something not going right. Just like something doesn't go right at home or in the classroom. And it's not a bad emotion. It just means that what's being presented to me doesn't click and my brain has decided to go someplace else. The second is decision making. So I have tons of research and others research which shows that we think that we're cold, cognitive creatures, that we're like, I made this choice because of this reason. Hate to tell you this, but for parents, when you've been really upset with your kid and you've been at the end of your rope and you're really pissed, and then you say that thing that you regret it, how many of you think you were like in that moment? You're like, I hate my kid right now. And I'm going to say something that's going to be mean and cruel. No, it's automatic. It comes out. And if you were intellectual about it, you would be like, why would I be doing this? It's not the way it works. The third is relationships. And so just think about it. As I said, my facial expression, my body language all sends messages. The fourth is mental health. And the last one we spoke about already, which is about performance, if you don't have the skills to deal with your emotions, especially for people who are really creative. What I find in our research on creativity is that emotions fuel the creative process, but emotional intelligence and emotion Regulation is what determines whether that process becomes a product.

[Dr. Becky]

There's so many things I want to double click on, but just this idea of emotions as data and information, I think is very different from how a lot of people think about emotions. Where there's like positive versus negative. Right, Exactly. Which whenever I hear that, it's just an unhelpful binary because I think about a CEO of a company and someone bringing them information that would make them change a decision. I don't know if anyone thinks that's like negative information. That's useful information. Right.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

All emotions are information.

[Dr. Becky]

Exactly. And some are more uncomfortable than others. Just like when you're going one direction on a plane flight and a pilot gets new information, like there's a new light going off or weather pattern, they have to change, that's inconvenient. But I don't think anyone in the air is thinking that's negative information.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

My pilot should ignore it.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, exactly. Let's just pay attention to the good stuff.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Repress, deny, ignore. No.

[Dr. Becky]

No way. And so I think that in and of itself is life changing for people. Like, there's no positive or negative feelings.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Emotions are data, information, as we said. And I think when it comes time to regulate our emotions, I think oftentimes people think that the goal is to get rid of negative emotions. And I just want to say very clearly that you can't get rid of your feelings first. Where are they going to go? It's not like they come out of your head. I always thought that, by the way, for years before I really became knowledgeable about science, I was like, someone's going to go into my brain. I'm going to carve out that area of my amygdala and my hippocampus, and I'm not going to feel that anxiety anymore. I haven't had that operation yet. And I also learned very clearly that my anxiety has actually helped me get to where I'm at, because I worry about the things that I care about. And if I reframe it that way, anxiety is no longer a negative emotion. It actually is motivating.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes. That's actually so many different ways of explaining nervous feelings to my kids. They have really latched onto this idea of, like, nervous means I care.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I love that.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. And it then becomes this, like, empowering, you know? Yeah. I do care about this test. So it makes sense that I'm nervous about it.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly. I think the rule that I've created, which is a simple rule to help people, is, is that if you have a Particular emotion for a really long period of time, and it's intense. And your coping ability, you're struggling with that. That's when you need to regulate. But for the most part, I argue, and my research supports this, by the way, that the first strategy for healthy regulation is permission to feel.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It's saying, you know what? Okay, high anxiety welcome today. That's just a different attitude about it. It's a mindset shift as opposed to, oh, my God, I'm anxious.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

You think, just feel it. Like, oh, my God, I'm anxious versus hi, anxiety welcome.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, it is. And I find personifying it to be so useful. Like, there are friends we have that are a little pesky. Like, we love them, but they're a little annoying, but we can't make them. They're just at the dinner party. And if you ignore them or try to make them go away, they usually get noisier and they try to get our attention a more dramatic ways. Now, I have a question, because what I've seen, and I'm curious what you've seen, you know, from your research and also just from students, is there more of an inclination now than years ago to kind of quote, bring uncomfortable emotions to a zero than there used to be?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, I think that we. You know, have I gotten to a place where people. I was asked the other day about what does it mean to be emotional? And I said, let's throw that term out. It has no meaning. It's ridiculous. And then people, I think, are so uncomfortable being uncomfortable that they'd rather either suppress or deny, or people just want to figure out a way, like, what do you need? What do you need? Right now, none of that is helpful. And that's why I really feel strongly about teaching people buckets of strategies to deal with their emotions. And permission to feel is one bucket. But believe it or not, as you probably know, because we talked about what we were having for lunch earlier, and I just say this because what you eat and how well you sleep and the physical activity you get are really highly correlated with your ability to regulate with parents. What I find is that in the mornings, they say, I'm trying to be my best self, but I just can't. I'm just, like, irritable. And I set a goal to be my best self as a mom. And then I fail the first thing in the morning, and. And I say, well, how much sleep did you get? Oh, I had a terrible night's sleep. Oh, so your best self is possible, but you're not thinking about what's behind it that's getting in the way.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And the point, I think, of all this is that people are trying to get rid of their feelings as opposed to use their feelings to achieve their goals. And the work I really, what I strive to help people understand is that the goal of emotion regulation is not to control your feelings. It's to learn how to use all of your emotions wisely to achieve a goal.

[Dr. Becky]

I think that's exactly right. And I think a good example is, like, I notice I'm really frustrated with my kids. I'm snapping. And instead of the spiral of, like, I'm a monster, I'm a horrible parent, or, you know, other people would find this easier than I do. Like, okay, I'm frustrated. Like, what's going on for me? Have I done anything for myself on the weekend? You know, and then that information, that frustration could actually help me if I can wreck recognize it. Permission to feel frustrated. That's happening. Okay, maybe I should carve out, I'm making this up 45 minutes for myself or ask my partner to do more. Right. It would give me that information if I listened to it.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

One thing I wanted, I was thinking about coming here today and given the people that you reach and kind of there's a big controversy right now out there, and it's one that's driving me crazy, which is that being self aware is self indulgent. And people are arguing, like, against my work, saying things like, you know, you're causing kids to be so reflective that it's causing them to ruminate and become depressed even and creating more mental illness. And I just want to. I have to talk about that with you for a moment because it's driving me crazy. Because people think that doing the work that we do in schools or with families is about talking about feelings all day long. Like, none of us want to talk about our feelings. It's not even appropriate.

[Dr. Becky]

No.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

There's a point where it's like, no, we're at school, we're doing work. Yes, I want it. You can check in in the morning to see how you're feeling. Do you need a strategy to help you get through the morning? And then maybe at the end of the day a couple times, just like you as a parent, you wake up, you're going to meet with me to do this podcast, then you're going to check in, like, am I in a good mood? Am I in a bad mood? Am I in the right place for this interview? If not, what's my strategy for getting to the right place.

[Dr. Becky]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

But do you see how that takes 20 seconds?

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It's not this prolonged bathing in your feelings. I just want people to.

[Dr. Becky]

We have to clear that up.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

We have to clear it up that this is about self awareness as a pathway to creating the life that you need and want. And it's not about indulgence.

[Podcast Host]

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[Dr. Becky]

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[Dr. Becky]

So a couple things for further defense of Mark Brackett. You know, I'm a big Mark Bracket fan. Okay. So I think there are extremes. And what often happens when we have one extreme and we reject it is people immediately go to the other extremes. They're rarely the right answer. Right. The right answer is usually something more nuanced in the middle. And it is becoming increasingly hard to.

[Podcast Host]

Hold multiplicity and nuance.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. Which probably relates to this kind of claim. Self awareness is self indulgence. I think we used to have a world of kind of kids Feelings, who cares? Who cares? Get your act together, Move on. Kids, feelings don't matter. And I do think not your work. There has been a misunderstanding and an overcorrection to the other extreme. Where one extreme is kids feelings don't matter. The other extreme is kids feelings dictate reality or dictate what the whole family does. So now we've gone from feelings not matter to feelings overpowering everything else. They're both unhelpful extremes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly.

[Dr. Becky]

And I think what you're saying, which is my perspective too, teaching kids how to manage their feelings is in the.

[Podcast Host]

Service of making them more capable.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Correct. I mean, you can't get over, you can't always get what you want.

[Dr. Becky]

Exactly.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

When you're a kid or when you're an adult. And frustration tolerance is important, delayed gratification is important, all these things are important. But self awareness is really important.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Because if you don't know how you're feeling as a kid, especially like I was a kid who was. I didn't have language, nobody taught me the words. I was trapped with my feelings and I didn't feel safe and comfortable talking about them. And as we know, especially for kids, they shouldn't worry alone. Yeah, you should not worry alone.

[Dr. Becky]

And alone is the enemy.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly. And so by sharing what you're feeling and being clear about it, because another big thing, just going back to this whole thing, is that people misunderstand behavior for emotion. So I come in, I hate you and I don't want to go to school tomorrow. And all of a sudden the parents triggered and they say things like, who do you think you are talking to me that way? Stop being so angry. When in my case it was that the kid spit on me on the bus. And I'm feeling such deep shame and fear that I don't want to go to school tomorrow. But I've only learned because daddy's a tough guy to yell, scream and say, I hate school and I hate you. But then I get sent to my room because I'm engaging in bad behavior that in that instance my mother was not really skilled at co regulating. And so the best thing to do is trigger. Get out of my face. And there I was ruminating in my room about my fear of going to school tomorrow when no one knew how I felt and if they really knew how I felt, they probably would have had a better intervention.

[Dr. Becky]

Well, no, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I mean that. Yeah, I mean, thank you for.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I'm glad I sublimated it into a Career of teaching this stuff.

[Dr. Becky]

Me too. For everyone's sake and sorry that happened in the first place. And maybe, actually I think it would be helpful to take that example because it's so common. Right. Which. Let's just start with the word some version of I hate you or even just I'm not going to school today. Right. Okay. I think it might be helpful to outline. We could play around together. A version of my kids feelings don't matter. A version of my kids feelings dictate reality and what the whole family or what they do. And then kind of, where do kids feelings matter? And where can we help our kids access their capability?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Becky]

Which extreme do you want to take first?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, first I have to say the feelings always matter.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes, feelings always matter.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

The first example, I think is sort of like the dismissing like I. And what I found in my research, by the way, which is relevant to your community, is that the number one reason why parents don't ask their kids about their feelings is fear. And it's fear from multiple perspectives. But the primary one is that they are afraid of not knowing what to do. And so what do you do when you don't know what to do? You go to automatic, habitual, former ways that you learn things, which is my mother's way of, I'm going to my room and you're going to your room and we're not talking. That's the extreme, right? That's like, suck it up, you're on your own, kiddo.

[Dr. Becky]

Yep.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Doesn't usually help.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. And I think that's what a lot of kind of parents tell me, like, well, that's how my parents would have handled it, you know, growing up. You're going to school. Stop being ridiculous. You're being dramatic. You're gonna make me late for my job, I'm gonna get fired, gonna have no money. I don't know, just like some litany.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I mean, there's no relationship there. That's like.

[Dr. Becky]

That's right. There's no relationship. And in some ways, in that moment, you also have no curiosity. Your curiosity is shut down. I have no curiosity about what's underneath. Maybe the problem isn't my kids saying they're not going to school. Maybe that's just representative of some bigger problem.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

They're actually struggling with behavior. You know, there's a symptom.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes. So that's one extreme.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Becky]

What's the other extreme? That you also want to make sure you're like, this is not what I'm talking about.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Oh, my God. Honey, what Went wrong. I can't handle this. Oh, my goodness. Let's. We have to, you know, let. My God, let's go. Let's, you know, like that kind of over dramatic reaction.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes. And I think another version of that is, okay, let's sit on the couch. Gonna cancel our plans. You're not going to school today. We're gonna talk about how you feel for the next eight hours instead. Right. And let.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Actually, you reminded me of something. I wrote this op ed and they decided not to submit it after the last election when a school here in New York City wrote a note saying that if the kids were not up to it, they didn't have to come.

[Dr. Becky]

To school after the election. Yes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. And I was like, that is not emotional intelligence. You have to go to school, period. I mean, you have to learn how to. Life does not go always in the direction that you want it to go.

[Dr. Becky]

And I think what collapses in that example and in my example is there's emotions mattering with the collapse of capability.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Correct.

[Dr. Becky]

And I think as a parent, I always say, like, so much of dealing with kids, distress and anxiety is holding two things at once. As a parent, I believe you and I believe in you.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yes.

[Dr. Becky]

And if we lose the I believe in you part 100%, it's also really overwhelming and feels dangerous for a kid. Cause they're like, well, I'm overwhelmed by this. My parent is overwhelmed by this. Like, where do I start? And you end up.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

But what you're doing there is you're instilling a growth mindset in terms of and around emotion regulation in particular. So if your kid is like doing a climbing thing and they're, oh, I think I'm going to fall. You're like, honey, I'm watching you. And I understand that you're feeling afraid. I would be afraid, too. It's a little scary the first time, but I know you can do this. And so I'm going to stand there, I'm going to watch you, I'm even going to coach you a little bit. But I just know that you're going to be able to do this.

[Dr. Becky]

I got you that second part. The. And I know I often visualize, you know, I need to see a more capable version of my kid than they can access themselves in that moment. Because if I can't see that for them, like, they. They're not gonna get that from me.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly.

[Dr. Becky]

And so. Okay, so what's in the middle? So we have a kid. I'm not going to school today. Right. So let's say we're like, okay, not doing the two extremes. What's in the middle?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, it's like, honey, tell me what happened, what's going on? And it's not this four hour conversation. It's really getting to know the experience. You know, honey, I did notice that your facial expression was different today. So my hunch is that maybe something happened at school yesterday, can we chat about it? And then you're in learning mode. But the learning mode is not to then say, well, like you should suck it up or like, oh my God. The learning mode is to help engage in problem solving mode. I have something, a new research finding that you're going to love. So in my research, when I've interviewed now, I'm going to say 15,000 people about their childhoods, about the people who created the conditions for them to kind of thrive. There are three characteristics. The first is non judgmental. And as we know people, I think most of us felt judged from the moment we came out of our mother's womb. Just to be blunt, like, you're not smart enough, you're too dark, you're too light, you're too tall, you're too short, your nose is too big. Whatever it is, it's just endlessly judged. And people say, I just want to be around someone who doesn't judge me. Please don't judge me. The second is the listening piece. Can you just listen, please? Don't jump in all the time, just listen. And the third is compassion. Now importantly, what I want to say about this is that in the thousands of people that I've studied, no one ever says that the person who created the best conditions for them when they were young was smart or a problem solver. I find that incredible because I don't think people are looking for other people to fix them. I think people are looking for people to create the conditions for them to thrive and to ask them good questions so they can develop the critical thinking skills to then problem solve for themselves. And I don't think that we create the conditions for that as much as we should. And by the way, only 1/3 of 15,000 people that I studied said they had someone like that when they were growing up.

[Dr. Becky]

I don't know if I'm unable to snap, we could talk about that later, but I've never wanted to snap. I really felt the urge to snap.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

I'll do it for you.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, I was showing off, but okay, you can cope. Yeah, I can cope. I can, I can do hard things. Okay. I'm not going to Sugarcoat it.

[Podcast Host]

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[Dr. Becky]

Routine falls apart, or you're wondering if.

[Podcast Host]

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[Dr. Becky]

You know, no one saying the adult that really helped the most was smart or a problem solver, and how, you know, we don't really want to be fixed. The other part of that that I think so powerful for parents to remember is when you see your kid as being able to be capable, as being able to be resilient, you set up conditions for them to access that in them.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Correct.

[Dr. Becky]

Every time we say to our kids, let me do that for you or I'll fix this. Whether it's literally opening the Play Doh jar or it's, you weren't invited to that birthday party. I'm just gonna create a slumber party for you on that same date. We're gonna invite more people, and it's gonna be more fun. We're actually saying to our kids, I don't think you are capable of coping with this, which is the mirror of they take in.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And so you're bringing up another piece of the research, which I just remembered, which is the second factor is time that nobody has the patience to, like, let their kids figure it out. They just wanna get it done for them.

[Dr. Becky]

I know.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It's like, you know what, honey? Just do that. Move on. Just go say you're sorry. Go apologize. And it's saying you're sorry doesn't really mean anything, as we know. And so we just want it to be done so we can go back to our phones or do something else. And people don't have the patience to be present.

[Dr. Becky]

I've been talking about this a lot, and it's resonating because I think it goes to what you're saying, that the most underutilized parenting strategy in a hard moment is doing Nothing.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yes.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. And I tell people, you should think about doing nothing with a capital D and a capital N, because then you won't think, I'm just doing nothing. No, no, you are choosing doing nothing. It's like a very hard strategy to use in 2025.

[Podcast Host]

You wait and you trust.

[Dr. Becky]

And the apology is such an interesting one, because I have a kid who.

[Podcast Host]

If in the moment you say, like.

[Dr. Becky]

Are you gonna say sorry? I mean, shut down completely?

[Podcast Host]

But if you wait and trust and.

[Dr. Becky]

Do nothing, the authentic apology that comes from him is the best apology I've.

[Podcast Host]

Ever heard from a kid. Yeah, but you have to.

[Dr. Becky]

You actually have to trust yourself and your kid more than you trust that exact moment, which is hard.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

It is. And I find another piece of this is the role modeling.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Is, you know, I joke about this, but my mom had a phrase, this is the 1970s phrase, probably, where whenever things would go wrong, she's, ah, I'm gonna have a breakdown. And I caught myself a couple years ago on a flight, and I was, like, overwhelmed. And somebody said, you doing okay? I'm like, I'm having a breakdown. And it's. You know, I pick that up. And so we're picking up the strategies, obviously, that our parents are. Everyone is showing us.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And so, you know, if you're not. And this is the. I think this is where the explicit versus the implicit learning happens. Whereas if we're modeling healthy self talk, if we're modeling healthy reaching out for support. You know, I give an example a lot with. Because, you know, in my research, by the way, and my hunch is that you got a lot of moms who. Listen, we got to get more dads on this. My goal, you know, for this new journey with my book, dealing with feeling, is to get more dads involved, because I have found that only 3% of people think of their father as the person who gave them permission to feel.3%. That's a. It's a very. I mean, to me, it's an alarming statistic that no one sees their father as the person who gave them that permission to feel. And so the point of me telling you this is people think this is, like, such hard work to be a good role model. But imagine this. I'm Daddy, and I had a really rough day at work. Just a rough day at work. I got into a fight with a colleague, and I'm irritable. And I come home, and you're there as my daughter, and you're like, daddy, I want to play Daddy. I want to play, and daddy is not in the mood to play. And so what my father would have done would be like, honey, get out of my face or go to your room or go watch television or go get a snack. But what if it looked a little different? What if it was? Honey, I recognize you want to play, and I just want to let you know Daddy had a really rough day at work. Actually, what happened is I said something that was not kind to one of my friends at work, and I feel terrible about it. And I need a little bit of time to just think about what I'm going to say to him tomorrow. And if it's okay with you, I want to be with you, but now's not the best time. I just need a few minutes to just kind of settle and think about it. And then when I come back, we'll go take that walk or we're going to play that game. So what did I do there? A, daddy has strong feelings. B, daddy's okay sharing those feelings. C, daddy's reflective. D, Daddy problem solves and thinks about, like, solutions. E, daddy sometimes needs a little space to, you know, reflect and think through things. All that happened in a matter of a minute. Yeah, but people don't think that that's the right thing to do for some reason, or they don't think that actually saying it out loud to their kid is actually teaching them.

[Dr. Becky]

You know, I think there's also confusion. I'm not supposed to cry in front of my kids. I'm not supposed to put my emotions onto my kids. Yet putting your emotions onto your kid ironically probably comes from not managing or verbalizing your emotions. So they do kind of almost come out of your head and they come out onto other people. And you're really talking about regulating out loud.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly. Actually, you reminded me of a. I do so much public speaking that I get these people come up to me, and so a lot of dads come up to me afterwards, like, dude, you're vulnerable. And I'm like, yeah, but it took me, you know, I was 49 by the time I was, like, public with my whole life story. So, you know, it takes time for people. Don't worry. But, you know, and I share a lot about the terrible bullying that I had. And this one dad came up to me and he said, you know, Mark, I could never share what you shared with us if it were me to my kid. And I said, well, tell me why. And he said, well, my kid would think I was weak. And I said, can we just pause for a minute? And just chat. And I said, well, what if your kid was being bullied right now? How do you think that approach would help or not help your kid? And then the guy started crying with me, and he's like, yeah, you know, it's just. I just never really learned, you know, this vulnerability thing, this sharing, you know, my. What happened to me as a kid, I just never learned it. And I've been stuck with not expressing it for 40 years or 30 years, and I just don't. I don't have the skill. And it goes back to again, the skill.

[Dr. Becky]

The skill. And the truth is, anytime we do something new, and anytime we do something new that's completely different than all the generations before us, it's going to actually feel scary because our body is doing something for the very first time. It's unknown. It's going to be awkward. And so I think that's such an important piece of it. Okay, I'm gonna talk about the rough day I had and just name that and say, I need space. Cause I'm feeling frustrated and I need a little time. When your body starts, I don't know, having a racing heart at the thought of doing that. I feel like our brain tries to make sense of that by saying, I shouldn't do that. But actually your brain can make sense of it differently. I've never done this before. Of course my heart is racing. That's not a sign I'm doing something wrong. It's a sign I'm doing something new.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah. And actually, now you're reminding me of another area of research of mine which is kind of studying this concept of becoming the best version of yourself. And so it's an exercise that I think it's very helpful for parents to do, which is just to take a moment and imagine how you want to be seen and talked about and experienced. So if I were to ask you that, Dr. Becky, as a mom, think about the attributes of the mom that you want your kids to see, that you want your kids to experience.

[Dr. Becky]

Present, connected, curious.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah.

[Dr. Becky]

Same team.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Nice. So present, curious, connected, same team. And so in the moment when your kid is, like, getting under your skin, it's hard to show up as present, connected, etc. But what if tonight, before you walk into your apartment, you take a deep breath and you say, I've set a goal. I'm a mom who wants to be seen as connected, you know, as present, etc. And then kind of just visualize that as you walk through the door. Do you think that would.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, I think you're talking about the essence of regrounding ourselves in our values.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly. And when we're, you know, with the world, when we're on social media, when we're running on the subways and we're coming home and we're hectic and we're thinking, oh my gosh, I have this work to do yet and I got to make dinner and then I got to put the kids to bed and I got to do this problem solving for tomorrow, blah blah, blah, blah blah. And then we get activated those values and that version of ourself gets dismissed. And so it's a practice.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes, it is. Just like yoga.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Exactly.

[Dr. Becky]

Never ends.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

And I do a lot of work here in the city as you do. And I have a friend who's a principal of a school downtown and he takes the bus in from Brooklyn and he drives by the Statue of Liberty and he uses that as his method. And he looks at the Statue of Liberty and he reminds himself of the principal he wants to be. And then on the way home, as the parent he wants to be. Isn't that beautiful?

[Dr. Becky]

Nothing like Lady Liberty to hold you accountable.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Love it.

[Dr. Becky]

Never thought about Lady Liberty as my accountability buddy. I might have to change my. I love that if parents listening, you know, want to take what you're talking about and make a couple small shifts or something that feels actionable, like what are your top go tos?

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

The top go to is to just have a mindset that there's no such thing as a bad emotion, that you know what the feeling is. A feeling you could make it want to go away, but it's there for a reason because emotions come unbidden. I think the second is, and this is a big one for me because I grew up and I still have my automatic go to is self criticism. And I can only remember being criticized. It's terrible. And I'm convinced that most of us have been gaslighted by people in our development, in our childhoods and we just start believing it. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. No one ever taught us to sift through the way other people were talking about us. And then it metastasizes and it becomes your identity. And so I just want to encourage people to move from self criticism or other criticism to self compassion and other compassion. And that alone I think could make a huge difference. I'll give you one more. Great, I got a hundredth. But I'll give you my top three for today.

[Dr. Becky]

I love top threes.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

My third one is it might be surprising. It's to have an other orientation. I think that we have become such a me culture. I'm feeling this way and it's my thing. And I had this with during the pandemic. My mother in law got stuck with us for a variety of reasons because of the pandemic. She's from Panama and she couldn't go back. And it's like it ruined my routine. I like to have coffee alone in the morning. I don't want to have coffee with my mother in law staring at me. All I realized was after six months for me to realize it's like I'm a narcissist basically. It's like you're in my house and I'm feeling this way and I want.

[Dr. Becky]

To feel you give yourself critical voice, Mark.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Yeah, you're right. So thank you for the awareness. And then I came down one morning and I realized I had no curiosity about my mother in law. Here was an 81 year old woman who doesn't speak any English, who is stuck in America during a pandemic whose dog is like, we're trying to figure out how to take care of our dog in Panama. And as soon as I stopped thinking about my feelings and I thought about her feelings, everything changed. Actually our relationship changed dramatically. And so even when we're feeling unpleasant emotions as parents or as even children can do this. If we take a minute and think about like who is suffering right now that I know, go into your phone and look for pictures of people, oh my gosh, she just lost her husband or whatever it might be, this person's dog died. And just reach out to that person and show your love and support for them. What happens magically is that by you helping them, you feel better yourself.

[Dr. Becky]

Tell everyone where they can find more from you. I know everyone will want that.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Well, my book is called Dealing with Feeling which I'm very excited about. It's all evidence based strategies to help everybody regulate their emotions more effectively. And the best place to learn more about me is just my website, which is my name. Marcbracket M A R C B R A C K E-T T.com well, thank you.

[Dr. Becky]

This hopefully is not the last time I have you right here.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Thank you.

[Dr. Becky]

And I love talking to you and thank you for your very, very important work.

[Dr. Mark Brackett]

Thank you.

[Dr. Becky]

I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I know I really did. Things that are top of mind for.

[Podcast Host]

Me are that there's no bad feelings. This idea of positive and negative emotions, let's throw that out and embrace what Dr. Brackett says emotions are data and all data is information. And we want to get information. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review it. Or if you're listening on Spotify or watching on YouTube, drop a comment. I read every single one. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground and place a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon. Thank you to our sponsors, Airbnb, Chomps and Skylight, for sponsoring this episode.