← Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Good Inside with Dr. Becky
How to Know if Your Kid Is Ready for a Phone
00:36:28
Dr. Becky and a mom discuss the topic of when to give a kid a phone and how to navigate the challenges and concerns that come with it.
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- [00:11]
A
We have a rising sixth grader and she's been really good about not pushing for a phone. She knows it's off the table for now, but as her friends increasingly get them. It was a popular fifth grade graduation gift around here. We just want to be equipped so that when it comes up, we know it's not an if, it's a when. We know how to handle the questions of why can't I have one now and when am I going to get one? And you know, if you think I'm not mature enough, why are they mature enough to have one? So we just want to be able to have some good sort of scripts to explain this to her beyond. Oh, we as a family are going to wait. You know, different families, different choices. Only go so far with an 11 year old.
- [00:53]
B
When do I give my kid a phone? What age is the best age to give a phone? My kid is the only one who's not going to have a phone. I can't even tell you how many voice notes I've gotten about phone related dilemmas. And so I want to get into it with all of you because I know it's on your mind. And even if you have a younger kid, it's so important to start thinking about how am I going to handle moments where my kid wants something and I don't want them to have it and how can I hold boundaries while staying connected to my kid, especially before they ask about something so big like a phone. Today I'm talking to a mom who's been really thoughtful about her media policy with her kid. And at the same time her kid is now starting middle school and is desperate for more access and is desperate for a smartphone. Today we're going to get into how to think through those decisions and how to manage your kids questions and disappointment and anger. So tell me a little bit more what's going on for you in terms of my hesitations and my worries because I think that your awareness of that is actually a really amazing thing already to see in the conversation that you're having some amount of conviction that you don't want this to happen yet. And it seems like there's things on your mind that you feel like you're protecting her from. So tell me a little bit more about that.
- [02:16]
A
Yeah, it's really twofold. One is the timing. You know, we're in a period of transition. She's entering middle school for the first time. In our town, four elementary schools merge into one middle school. So it's a lot of new social dynamics. New friends, new friend groups. We also have homework for the very first time. So it's new schedules, new routines, new expectations. She's also riding a bus for the first time. So there's just, like, a lot of factors that come into play that you could make the case. It's a perfect time for a film. You know, she should have ways to connect and ways to stay in touch. But on the flip side, you know, I think I really want to make sure she. She has a smooth transition and avoids distraction and can really focus on what matters, you know, socially, academically, making a smooth transition into middle school.
- [03:05]
B
So there's a couple things I just want to kind of double click on right away. Number one, you're talking about, okay, my kid does maybe have more of a need to stay in touch than they used to. They're riding a bike or they're on a bus like you said. Or maybe they have some evening activities they didn't used to have. As they get older, they're at soccer practice far away. Like, I hear this from parents all the time. My kids in sixth, seventh grade. And actually, I feel like I want to be more in touch with them. So there's that. There's also something you said that I think is really important for parents to hear, which is you're really invested in protecting her transition and protecting her from distractions. And this is just actually the first thing that I think really matters. When you talk to our kids, I think a lot about this phrase, I'm not so much anti phone as I am pro. And then you can fill something in. As I am pro connection, as I am pro you, as I am pro focus, as I am pro smooth transitions as I am pro. Whatever it is that you stand for is really important to frame in your mind, because so often with kids, the conversation starts with, oh, you don't want to get me a phone. What's so wrong with phones? And then all of a sudden, you're talking about something you don't want, versus often a decision to delay actually comes from a value a parent has. That's being pro something, right? So I know when I was talking to some school administrators who are going phone free, like, it's not so much that we're anti technology, we're pro students. That's actually where this decision comes from. So I'm curious, what about that resonates with you?
- [04:42]
A
Completely resonates. Definitely pro connection over here. I think my husband and I say all the time we're on borrowed time of taking vacations as a family without our girls having a device in their hand at dinner. And we want, you know, not, not that we can control our kids forever, nor do we have any hope in doing that. But this connection at this age, as we go through this really important growth time is really important to us and maintaining that connection is important. So I think, like I said, the distraction and wanting to really maintain that connection piece.
- [05:14]
B
I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. We'll be back right after this. Okay, I want to talk to you about something really exciting. On October 10th, I'm giving the keynote address at Hasbro's Women Innovators of Play virtual Conference. And here's the most exciting part. You're invited. Hasbro's mission with this annual conference is to attract more women and girls to the toy and game industry and inspire anyone with a passion for play. They've panel discussions, fireside chats, and so much more that will leave you feeling energized, educated, maybe even inspired to use the skills you learn to dip your toe in the toy and game design field or to help your kid get the most out of playtime. The best part is that it's completely free to attend. So join us on October 10th from 10am to 12:30pm Eastern. To learn more, register and watch, head to www.spark.hasbro.com women innovators. So when I talk to parents, there's often huge variety in kind of the top quality they wish for in their kid. Some people say confidence, some people say caring, some people say bold. And there's almost universal agreement in the number one quality. Parents don't want their kids to have entitlement. Over and over I have parents asking me, are there things I can do now so that my kid doesn't become entitled later on? And the truth is, there are. And so I wanted to put all of my thoughts down in one place and I created something brand new, a How to Avoid Entitlement guide. It's all practical strategies and specific scripts you can use so you know your kids are building the skills they need and that they are going to avoid that entitled outcome. It's available within membership. So if you're already a member, just search Avoid Entitlement within our member library. Or if you're not yet a member and want to check it out, check the link in the show notes. Now, you did mention this kind of increased need for communication. And so the other thing I think that's really important when we think about a phone is I know too, a lot of parents that I talk to a phone somehow means a smartphone with every app under the sun that is one version of a phone, let's say a version of a phone that's completely the under end of the spectrum is like a flip phone that allows for basic text or voice, and then in the middle there's all types of things. How are you thinking about that? Is that on the table?
- [08:01]
A
Absolutely. So she has had a watch that enables her to text us with preloaded messages and up to, you know, 10 individuals. For the last year, she was walking home from school with her little sister alone, and we wanted some way of staying in touch. So, you know, in my head, and I don't even know if I've ever vocalized this to her because it's hard to put these sort of timelines on things. But I'm thinking if the first few months transition to middle school goes well and she's on task and can do her homework, and, you know, the social dynamics seem to be going well. Perhaps like an Apple watch is another sort of intermediary step where they have a little more freedom in terms of who they can connect with. But there's no social media. It's harder for like large group texts to blow up in the same way they do on a phone or an iPad. Maybe that could be a good incremental step, but again, will it be insufficient? You know, I imagine holidays can be a really big time for other friends to get phones.
- [09:00]
B
Well, look, to me, Marissa, this comes back to something that I think we actually have always managed with our kids before phones. And I think this is actually the essence of what is empowering for parents around our kids. Phones and social media and everything like that. Our number one job is to keep our kids safe, which never means removal of risk. Like, it doesn't mean keep your kid in a bubble, but that is our number one job, is to look at their environment and make sure when they were two that they're not, you know, I don't know, crawling off a ledge when they're five, that we're still watching them on the playground, maybe while sitting down, but we're watching them. And that actually has always been our job. And I would guess when your daughter was younger, she often wanted things that you said no to, maybe even like your own words, continual disappointment. I don't know about you, but my son literally did ask for ice cream, I think for like three months straight for breakfast when he was a toddler. I don't know why we never did ice cream for breakfast. It was just Constant. And I do feel on some level was I constantly disappointing him? Maybe on the other level I always felt like he was doing his job, which was asking for things he wants, he's allowed to do that. And I was doing my job of making decisions that I thought were best for him, you know, long term and made sense to me, even if he was short term distressed. Right. Or upset with me. So maybe rewind and then I want to come back to the present moment. Tell me how you've managed those moments. Because I do think in the phone and social media conversations, something we miss as parents is, wait, what is it like for me to set boundaries? Do I have a history of setting boundaries and tolerating my kids upset? Or do I have a history and if this is true, no shame, it's just important information of, oh, I kind of hate setting boundaries with my kids and I tend to give in and they're kind of used to me doing that. And in what other situations unrelated to phones have I continually come up against a certain boundary where my kid keeps asking and I genuinely tend to say no over and over. So let's rewind and then we'll come back to today.
- [11:02]
A
I think in general it's worked the best where we set boundaries that we can sort of brainstorm together what a fair boundary might be so that they feel invested that, you know, this seems like a fair boundary. It's an incremental step to where I want to get to or where we think this seems fair and we all can sort of agree and be clear up front of like this is the boundary.
- [11:24]
B
And that's actually Marissa, I think for you going to be your guide in how you make some of these decisions for your family because it sounds like there are certain things that are core to you. Your kids transition to school, that's core. Your kid having a kind of relatively non distracted school academic experience, that's core. It sounds like staying off social media for some time and staying off these kind of like bigger group texts. Those things are like relatively core for right now. And then it sounds like what's up for grabs kind of could be negotiated is the exact timing of like, oh, do I go from this device to like this step function change? Maybe it's an Apple watch. Okay, do I let my kid text more friends than 10 but again still have core. You can't be on those group texts that get out of control. And I actually think as a parent, your ability to kind of write those things down and actually see them is really, really important because Then you can bring that in a conversation to your child. And I think this is where having some type of sit down, not like the sit downs that we think of maybe when we were younger, like, oh, I'm being sat down. No, but like, hey, let's sit down, let's find a time, you know, whoever the core members of the family are, your kid sounds like, you know, maybe you and maybe a partner. I say, hey, there are some things that I've really thought about and I know we're going to keep coming up against this, but I thought it would be helpful to actually have a kind of family meeting where I tell you exactly how I'm thinking about it, what kind of non negotiables there are right now and what things have a little more flexibility and we could talk about timeline because I'm sure on your end, sweetie, you would like to have something concrete to hold on to about when things are or aren't a possibility. So let me just pause there. If you said that to your daughter, how would she respond to that idea?
- [13:17]
A
I think she'd be really receptive. She responds well to like a strong plan and good expectation. So I think she'd be very receptive to that.
- [13:25]
B
I mean, I do too. Let me just, you know, me and your daughter cut from the same.
- [13:28]
A
We all love a good routine.
- [13:29]
B
I love a routine. I'm like, just put it on my calendar, then I know it's there. And then I think I would start a meeting saying to my kid, just anything to level things and kind of really connect them and just let them know you're on their team. So I would say something like, hey, you know, just I want to talk about phones, about social media, about how we're thinking about that in the family. Look, by the end of this conversation, there are certain things that are going to be clear. There are also probably some things that are still going to be unclear. I want to be honest, those are probably going to be the annoying things. But in our family, I tell you the truth, and I'm never going to say something certain if it isn't. That doesn't mean it's going to happen tomorrow. But we'll try to make some things as clear as possible. And so the other thing I want to say is I know you're a good kid and I want to let you know that I take my job as your parent very seriously. And part of my job always is making decisions that I think are really good for you long term, even if short term, you're annoyed with Me and then Marissa. I sometimes say this line to my kid a lot. I actually love you so much that I'm willing to do that. Like, I care about you and your development so much that I'm willing to have you roll your eyes at me, be mad at me and because I know we can talk through that. And I also know that sometimes being a parent requires that. So with that in mind. Right. And so I think what you're doing is you're starting out, you're connecting, you're letting them know you're on the same team, and you're also establishing that you are the parent here. And then I would just share some of the things you're saying here. I know you want to talk to more of your friends. I get that. Some of your friends will have full access to everything. I can tell you in this grade, we are not going to be a full access to everything family that is completely off limits. I also can tell you over the next couple months, what matters most is watching your transition to middle school. It's a big deal. And I have full trust in you. And because I have trust in you and because I believe in you, I won't let a decision get in your way of being as successful as possible. And so there's going to be no changes made until, at minimum, I don't know, again, whatever you fill in the blank with. So before we go any further, like, tell me, and I'm putting things out there with the idea that you're going to say, oh, I'd want to take that, or I'd want to throw that away. What about that type of approach again, like, hits home or what would you want to amend?
- [15:54]
A
That resonates. The only thing that I worry a little bit about, the other context piece here is our older daughter has had access to an iPad with a lot of the texting privileges and some of the social media with parental controls. But I need to prepare myself for the pushback of, how is this any different, mom, dad, than you giving me the iPad last year? How is me having a phone any different than what you've already given to me? So I think we need to be ready for a good rationale for both of those.
- [16:25]
B
We gotta have certain responses ready, gotta have some, like, lines ready. I always feel like that with conversations, too. Well, just, Marissa, between me and you here, what about a phone versus an iPad? Does feel different. I mean, it feels different for me. So I think you're. You're right on. But just tell me what's on your Mind about it.
- [16:40]
A
To date, the iPad hasn't been something that leaves the home. You know, it's something that you get for a certain number of. I mean, that's not true. It leaves when you go on vacation, et cetera. But, like, it doesn't go on the school bus, it doesn't go to school, it doesn't sit in your pocket. It's something that you use at the end of the day to, like, watch YouTube shorts or text your friends. And so that seems to me different than something that's constantly in your pocket, constantly dinging with notifications. It just seems a little different because it's not as portable.
- [17:06]
B
And as you're talking, how much conviction do you have? Forget your daughter's response, but how much conviction do you have in that difference? How much do you really believe yourself when you hear yourself talking?
- [17:16]
A
I really do believe it. To be fair, you know, whatever videos or she's watching on the phone are no different than what she would get on the iPad. There are some loopholes in the argument here. Like, oh, you did give me social media here. Why wouldn't. If you give me an entry level phone with no social. That's worse than what I had at home already. Like, am I giving up one thing to get another?
- [17:35]
B
But I think what you're saying is that one of them has a much clearer boundary around use. That there's something about phones, and we know this. They're so slippery. You're like, what? I didn't even know I was looking at my phone. What? Oh, I guess I took it out of my pocket. What? It made a noise and it's so much closer to me that I just looked at it. Right. This happens all the time. Where an iPad, which obviously is smaller than a tv, so it used to seem like this tiny device. Right. But it feels bulky in almost like a helpful way as a boundary where you're never, oh, my goodness, I just pulled my iPad out of my back pocket and, you know, found myself doing something. So I agree with you because I think what we're talking about are two different things. There's the content of what a child is doing and there's the container of where that lives. They both matter. And changing both at the same time is a big change. And I think what you're saying is the container where this lives feels really important in protecting her transition.
- [18:42]
A
Yeah. And I think we learned that the hard way with the iPad. I think I was naive to think you could move from like a Facebook messenger situation where your parent sees Everything to, oh, I just want to FaceTime my friends. And it just opened up a whole nother world of the group text and the, you know, without any parental controls, because I had no idea at the beginning, like, I didn't even know what I was doing. So I think it's really also instructive of. Okay, this time we're going to go in a little more eyes wide open about where do you charge this device at night? How do you put the limits on for both time and content and make sure that you're. You're staying safe but you know how to use it?
- [19:17]
B
I think that that's right. And I think I would own that outright. I think it's helpful to say to kids, definitely to tweens and teens, just the language. You're right. You're absolutely right. So when she says, oh, but you already gave me social media. Right. You're absolutely right. You're totally right. I did. And so I get why it feels extra confusing or even annoying for me to still hold the line on not having something I gave you on an iPad, on a phone. I get that. And I would. I would really like overplay your hand there. Yep, you're absolutely right. I totally get that. And look, I'm happy to talk you through what I see as the difference. Social media is kind of the content. It's what you're doing. The device is what I think of as a boundary or kind of a container and how portable something is, how much you could slip into using a certain device. That really differs between an iPad and a phone. And so there are two ways, I think, about protecting you. One is the what and the other one is the specific device. And that's the reason why I'm still not ready to put social media on a phone. And I think owning it in that way, I'm not ready. I'm not there yet. I trust you. I love you. And this isn't easing in that I still feel gives the protection that feels right. I think that that's like a really sturdy way of communicating that choice. If you're like me. It's almost impossible to talk to a parent without getting into a conversation about the impact of phones on kids mental health. The data is clear. Kids are struggling. And do you know what also has become clear to me that parents need a solution that's practical, actionable, and actually manageable in the reality of our busy, everyday lives. In my private practice, one of the most common topics I talk about with parents is how to give your kid a phone. That's right. Not just whether to give a kid a phone, but how, literally. The steps to take, the words to use, the contract to put in place, the boundaries to hold, the important conversations to have. And as I've now seen millions of parents concerned about phones and not knowing where to turn for help, I realized I had to bring this information out of my private practice and surface it to all of you. So join me in watching my brand new workshop, how to give your kid a phone. Here's what you're going to get. The three essential questions to ask yourself before giving your kid a phone. Which boundaries are important to set and how to handle pushback around them. The steps to implement a phone contract that actually works, that your kid buys into and that holds weight. And how to ensure your kid comes to you in tricky, unsafe moments, which inevitably happen as soon as kids have a phone. We all know phones are a major issue in this generation, and that means that you deserve to navigate phones with confidence. And with my clear roadmaps and concrete steps to take, I know that's exactly what you'll have. And yes, this workshop, along with every other workshop I have, is available at any time to listen to on the go. It's all included in the GoodInside app. Follow the link in the show notes or go to goodinside.com to learn more.
- [23:01]
A
There are a couple of things about that that sit well, and there are a couple of things I wonder about. One is, you know, for the friends who do have unfettered access to social media, when you have these, you know, not, not a play date or not like a get together at this age, it's like, let's get together and let's do TikToks or watch YouTube shorts together. And so there is this, you know, if you restrict something so much at home, does it become the thing that they want so much that becomes like almost not an addiction, but an obsession totally. How do we navigate that pace?
- [23:30]
B
So look, these apps are inherently addictive. So they're addictive on their own. They're meant to capture your attention. They're meant to never feel like enough. I think one of the things that makes kind of anything extra enticing for a kid is not only when it's kind of, quote, off limits, but when it's even off limits from being talked about, when there's something extraordinarily binary about it and when it becomes kind of this way of expressing independence and control for a child. So this is where it's part of such a larger Family dynamic. And again, this is why I think staying connected to your kid through these conversations is really important, I think for this generation. Right. We're. I think there's this movement now of, wait, can we band together with other families? This is something I wanna ask you about too. And I know John Hite talks about this a lot. Can there be some collective action? Can my kid be one of five kids who doesn't have social media? Five kids who has it on their iPad but not on their phone. Right. And then all of a sudden, oh, well, they're on, you know, some type. They're having a good get together, but half the kids have and half the kids don't. It immediately changes. If you're saying I am the only one, My kid is the only one in a group of 20 friends who doesn't have a phone with TikTok and they're sitting and they're not socializing by talking, they're socializing by watching TikToks with each other. I hear you and I think this is, you know, where this generation, where we're kind of stuck. But I guess I'm also a believer that there is this kind of middle ground that we don't have to be so rigid. And so tell me, is she the only one?
- [25:06]
A
No, not at all. We're just over preparing for when, you know, and I don't think we're going to be waiting long enough for that to be the case. To be fair. You know, I think.
- [25:18]
B
Is this something you have talked about with the other parents in the town? Like, are there other people where you're saying, hey, I know this seems like a kind of messy middle, but do you guys also want to say, no social media on a phone, no smartphones? Even though I know we all kind of allow this form of social media on an iPad for this amount of time, you know, in the privacy of our own homes? Because those things can make a huge difference.
- [25:41]
A
Absolutely. I think by the time it crossed our radar, it was too like, as I said to my neighbor and friends, circulating it who has younger daughters, like, that ship has sailed. I think it would be easier to start that earlier. I think when we got wind of a local effort, it was the end of fifth grade and so we already had the iPad. We're already on some social media. There are already phones in the friend group. Not many, but there are a couple. And so I think it's easier if folks band together earlier. And it was interesting because when I asked her kind of what responses are you getting to this she said, interestingly, we have some coaches of these traveling sports teams who want the kids to have phones because they want the parents to be able to reach the kids when they're at games and our way to know what time to be picked up. And so I think it also. Context really matters here. You know, what is your child doing after school? Where do they need to be? How. How much do you need to reach them versus have another way of reaching them? And so, you know, I'm not trying to be judgy about the phone use. It's just, I think we need to understand the context of why our child or why our students need the phone when they need it.
- [26:47]
B
I completely agree. So, look, to kind of bring some of this together, it sounds like you're okay with increased communication in general. It sounds like the things that you would really like to hold off on are extra forms of distraction and kind of slipping into phone use in moments. That phone use wasn't intentional.
- [27:07]
A
Absolutely.
- [27:09]
B
And so I think then every parent can really come up with, like, what are those things that matter most to me? And what is the version of a phone or device that actually bring that to life? And I think talking to your kid about that is where I'd actually begin. These are the things that are. Okay, okay, so maybe after a few months, we do get you that Apple watch. Maybe that does actually make sense to you, and you can preview to your kid. Look, a month later, when you asked me for a smartphone, I. I want to let you know, sweetie, that's not going to happen. We're going to wait a little longer. And I think giving a kid some milestones, if you have them, is really helpful. Like you said, everybody likes a plan, but everyone just likes to be able to see into a little bit in the future and understand, okay, this thing is or isn't happening around the corner. Because I think when you're in that Apple Store and in your mind as a kid, you're like, today's going to be the day. Today's going to be the day. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. And a parent's like, oh, we're going there to get a charger. I was never going to get my kid a phone today. There's a really big gap. And it's not only the disappointment that can kind of dysregulate a kid. It's the surprise at the disappointment, because in their mind, they had built up a wish to seem like a reality. And so I think being honest about, hey, Maybe it is. You said the holidays. Maybe that's a great time to say, assuming these things happen. Yes. An apple watch would be on the table for a holiday gift. Right. And now you have a sense of what that will look like. And it can kind of quiet some, not all, but some of the kind.
- [28:44]
A
Of constant protest that makes a lot of sense. I wonder if, what if we say, you know, the transition was a little rockier or there's, you know, I don't anticipate this happening, but, you know, what if you have to push it? How do you know when is like the right time?
- [29:00]
B
Yeah, I think, and this is gonna sound like a cop out, but there is never some right time. And I think, though, what you're, you're speaking to is when we do give our child a device that inherently makes focus and connection harder, what kind of guidelines can we put in place to just minimize those risks? And those are things you can do way before your kid has a phone. So let's touch on that a little bit. Number one, the habits we have with our own phone when we come into our home really matter. And I know that's always hard. I hear myself say that. I'm like, oh, shoot, does that mean I have to, like, work on my own stuff for my kids? And I guess, yes, the truth is it does. So things like, where do I put my phone when I come into my house? And I know a lot of parents say, what do you mean, where do I put my phone? It's like it's in my pocket. Right. But I think that's part of it. Well, do I want my kid to have their phone in their pocket, you know, for the next couple hours? Most people would say, no, I don't. So some amount of modeling matters. Number two, and sometimes this is the easiest place to start. Can we just make meals phone free? Can we make meals phone free for months before my kid has a phone? And then the idea of my kid having a phone at the table would. Would seem almost ludicrous because we've now established during, you know, dinner time or during whatever it is, Sunday morning, breakfast. As a family, that's always a time around a table. We eat and we talk and we connect and we hear about each other's days, and there's not a phone, even if it's for 15 minutes. Where do phones charge at night? And what type of homework routine does my child have established? I think those really matter. I think before your kid gets a phone, having a pretty well defined homework routine. Does my kid Put their backpack down? Do they get a snack? Do they then start homework? Do they go and, you know, go do video games? Well, guess what? Once the phone is in the equation, the video game and the phone is going to make it really hard to get started on homework. Right. And so I think those things matter. And then I think you're right. Once the phone comes into play, we need to have a true routine. And in my mind, even like a contract, not from a place of control, but actually a collaborative contract. Where does the phone go when you come into the house? What is the relationship with the phone when there's homework? I would say the phone shouldn't be there. Right. Where is the phone allowed to be used? Where does the phone charge, and at what time? And way before a kid gets a phone. Coming together and actually really agreeing on those guidelines definitely sets a kid up for at least the best chance of right. Their focus, their connection not being as derailed.
- [31:47]
A
I love that.
- [31:47]
B
It's really helpful, you know, going through this. The kind of how. Of giving your kid a phone is something I'm thinking a lot about, because I think. And you're speaking to this. Just the pragmatic steps. Okay, so how does my kid come up with their own guidelines about what would keep them safe? I think too often a parent gives a kid a phone contract, and then the kid feels like, oh, my parents kind of more invested in my safety and responsible use than I am. That's never a good setup for anyone to be successful. So how can I put some of that responsibility back on my kid? How can we go through the motions of the literal. Where. Where does the phone go when you're in the door? Where does it go during meals? Where does it go at a certain time? Those routines, again, Marissa, actually kind of form those containers and make use less problematic because we have a kind of relatively, you know, better setup defined.
- [32:40]
A
Yeah. I really like that. Having a system before you start changing the game.
- [32:45]
B
Yeah. And I also know, you know, just being honest with your kid about your own phone struggles, especially before they get a phone, hey, we're going to really start phone free meals. And look, it's hard for me, like, not because I don't want to do it, just because these things are so addictive. So if you see my phone on me, if I'm trying to sneak it during dinner, and you're like, mom, I see you looking under the table. Right. Please let me know because it's important to me and it's hard. And you're welcome to call me out in a loving way. Just to remind me. That also sets your kid up from when they get a phone to be like, oh, and my mom might call me out on one of those moments too. But if they've had a few moments and it feels kind of playful and loving where you said, oh, you're totally right, let me put the phone away. Thanks for calling me out. Whatever you want to say that that creates such a nice relationship in the family around. In our family, if a phone's really getting in someone's way of being connected, we already have a habit of noticing that, saying it, a person responding respectfully. And if you model that first, that behavior will be more likely to be mimicked by your child. Anything else on your mind or any other burning things that you feel like your daughter's gonna ask and you're like, geez, I just really need a response to this.
- [33:56]
A
I guess I do have one other question. If we end up giving the phone or the iPad or whatever device and you decide at some point it needs to be taken away because, you know, boundaries have been crossed or rules have been broken, how do you navigate the fact that your child says, this is the way I make plans with my friends, or this is how I stay connected socially? So how does taking away a device not become a social punishment or a social consequence?
- [34:25]
B
Yes. So look again, you're speaking. How do we manage a generation where the way they communicate with people, which is so important in the tween and teen years, is also some of the same things that can work against their focus, their self esteem, their resilience long term. Again, I don't know a great way to manage that. What I can tell you, I think really matters and is in the kind of good inside phone contract we recommend parents give their kids or develop with their kids, is telling your kids, I'm just like the pilot of a plane. And what I mean by that is if a pilot is flying from New York to Los Angeles and at any point they get new information that makes them think they should return to base or have an emergency landing, they do that and the passengers might be annoyed because they're all planning on being in Los Angeles. And I think we all know the best pilots still would make a different decision to protect the passengers long term. So as I give you a device, I want to let you know any of this could change. And I take that seriously. I'm not planning to randomly change things on you just for fun. No. And I take my job of keeping you safe very seriously. And so if anything happened, this is not a threat. It's truly a mark of my love and my desire to protect you. Some of these things on a phone could change and I think that framing really matters now. Let's say that plays out and then your daughter's like, what? I'm not on thing X anymore. I'm never going to get invited to parties. I'm never. Well, first of all, Marissa, I'm guessing that you're doing that because something pretty extreme has happened. And for all I know, it's not even permanent. Look, we're taking a week break right now. Are you saying for this week you might miss being invited? I believe you. I believe you. And like literally that stinks. And I know that stinks to an 11 year old more than or 14 year old, however she is, more than anything else, I believe you. And I also believe we need this. And this isn't forever and we're going to get through it. And I can brainstorm when you're a little less angry with me, other ways to figure out how to get in touch with your friends. And I'll also let you know, here are the things that I think we have to change or I need to even reset from a parent perspective. So you could, if that's your decision, get this back in a, in a safer way. But look, all of this, and I just want to end with this. None of this is as clean as the words I'm sharing. This is an impossible job. Our kids are now using technology in their social relationships that is also the same technology that we have real data for is saying is pretty bad for them. And so a parent is left. Like, what is a parent to do? And again, I just think I would really give yourself a lot of grace for saying, you know what a parent's gonna do, they're gonna do the best that they can. Hopefully they're gonna band together with other parents. That collective action, as John Height says, matters so much. And I'm going to try to stay connected to my kid through a series of difficult decisions and moments. And I think just so you know, like with my kids, that's what I'm planning to do too. Just kind of muddy through it, make some decisions, probably change them later, do things the best that I can, and hopefully have a great community that I can go through these transitions. Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast or you could write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's game changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the few minutes they have. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhey, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panicow, Brooke Zant, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.