Producer Jesse (2:26)

So can I frame it a tiny bit more?

Dr. Becky (2:28)

Yeah, do that.

Producer Jesse (2:28)

When I sat down to think about this so much, what was coming up for me was this, like, balance between privilege and gratitude. And what is the relationship between those two things when you're trying to teach them to your children? I don't know what the balance is. And how do you think about gratitude and entitlement in the same.

Dr. Becky (2:50)

And privilege. And privilege. That's a great framing. So I have these conversations all the time. Too, with parents, people in the community, with my husband, too. And I think there's a theme to these conversations. Tell me if this resonates where it's like, I feel like my kids have a life that in certain measurable ways, is way better than my life. And I feel like I'm giving them that life. I've worked so hard. We live in a town that's so different from the town, you know, I grew up in, or we go on vacation. I never went on vacation. You know, recently, I was hearing from a friend, you know, my kid just, like all these sports after schools, they even have some, like, private lessons here and there. I never had one coach, one lesson, even though I always wanted that. And so I think this is a really nuanced question, because in some ways, we're talking about privilege, entitlement, and gratitude. And in some ways, we're talking about something very different, which is the life we had, the things we wanted, the things we're giving to our kids, and then kind of the expectations we have of them to respond in a certain way to us. Maybe not even gratitude generally, but part of. And I think this is true for me, too, we need them to understand our sacrifice and almost be grateful for us. Thank you for giving me this amazing life. And, you know, the loudest thing that comes to mind for me in my brain right now is something I remember saying to a family a while ago in my private practice. And it was parents who grew up with very little economically, really, really and honestly, very little emotionally, too. And they created this life where they would even say, we are giving our kids a lot emotionally, psychologically, financially, and they don't appreciate shit, basically, and what's wrong with us and what's wrong with them? And here's how we started the conversation. I said, you know, you can't raise your kids in a candy store and expect your kids to appreciate candy. And it led us to talk about so many important themes. These were two adults who would have appreciated candy any instant they were given it. They were never given candy in their lives. Right? They were never taken to that place with connection, for deliciousness, with treats, with specialness. And so when we live in a world where we don't have a lot of, quote, candy, the absence of that, the scarcity of that inherently leads to an appreciation of candy in the very, very, you know, few moments we have it. And when we raise kids in a candy store, and I really mean this, it's not a judgment. It's really not. I'll speak about myself, I mean, to some degree, yeah. My kids live in a candy store. They have a lot all around them. But to expect them to be surrounded by candy and appreciate candy the way someone would who has never given candy, I think is a really unrealistic expectation. Now I already hear the next concern, oh, so my kids are just going to be assholes like that. That's totally not the conclusion. But. But I think we have to set that baseline first because I think it really does widen our perspective from, my kids are assholes. They don't appreciate anything to. Oh, my kids have a lot around them. And so actually, inherently, it is harder to cultivate gratitude when you live in a world where so much is given to you. When there's not a scarcity of maybe anything.

Producer Jesse (6:24)

Well, it also becomes a kind of value question too, which happens to me all the time. And it's also like, my third grader comes home and wants a pair of Nike tennis shoes that are $125. Well, she'll grow out of those tennis shoes in four months. And I'm not the type of person who wants to spend $125 on her Nike tennis shoes. But half the girls in her class were wearing these and she wants them. And so at what point does telling her, well, these tennis shoes are $125. She, she's eight. She doesn't really understand the value of $125. Cause she doesn't ever made any money. But it's still like it comes up in me to say, but we don't spend that much money on X. Yeah.

Dr. Becky (7:09)

So when you're living in an area where maybe you're thinking along with that candy metaphor, okay, maybe my kids are growing up in a candy store, but these kids are growing up in like the candy store with like king size candy all the time. So now it's like my kid doesn't even appreciate their fun size candy. Right. Because everyone around them has more. I think if we take away the ickiness of those moments. Cause there is ickiness. As a parent, you hear a kid say, what, you got me these shoes.

Becky (7:35)

And not the Nikes.

Dr. Becky (7:36)

Like, you're the worst mom ever. There's just such ickiness. Like you're like, I really hope no one heard that. It's really like, it just feels so bad. But if you take away the ickiness, or at least just put it to the side, what I think we can really break this down to in your Nike shoes example is a perfect one, is what is it like for an 8 year old to be surrounded by people who have things, who are excited about things, who are connected with each other about those things, and be the kid who doesn't have those things. And yes, there's materialism and consumerism here, but I also think we can take that out of it too. What's it like to be the kid who's left out? What's it like to be the kid who's not invited to the lunch table? Right. Or who doesn't, you know, feel like they can sit at the lunch table? And I think that really takes the shame away from it. And it also really shifts our intervention because I think your right, in that moment we, we really go into lecture mode. And I do too. We're like, okay, let's break down that $120. Like, do you know about taxes? Do you know about how hard I work? And like, here's how many hours I work in the day and here's what I commute. And by the way, here's much your soccer practice cost. And that, you know, like, we have this like, equation and I don't know what we think that's gonna do if like inside a kid's body they're able to like, add that up and then they like somehow understand, oh, these shoes really aren't worth it. And I should just appreciate that I get to go to soccer. Like, it just doesn't happen. It doesn't even really make sense to me. You break it down. I think the intervention that's actually really important and is actually then very generalizable to other situations is not just, is it my value to not buy Nikes? It's also a bigger question. I'm just coming up with this thought as I'm saying it. It's like, do I have the value that my kids can see things they want and learn to tolerate not having them? And I think that way of thinking is actually very empowering to parents because I have a lot of parents who will say to me, I don't want to buy my kids the Nikes. I could, like, to be honest, I'd say it's not going to break the bank. It's not. There's something about it though, that doesn't feel right to me. And I think what they're saying is the intervention with my kid isn't the explanation of the cost and how hard I work. The explanation actually to myself first is I actually just think, especially in a world of privilege, it is extra important for my kid to see things they Want and not have them. And maybe part of that feels like, sick. Like, wait, are we just artificially, like, withholding things? But if finances aren't a concern, which for some families, they might not be, right, or in certain situations they're not, but what is a concern is your first question. How do I not raise an asshole? I really think a big component of not raising an asshole is building up your own muscle or building up tolerance for wanting and not having, period. I think there's wanting and not having, there's doing things that are boring, and there's like, doing things you don't want to do. And in a way, privilege and financial privilege can actually remove all three from a kid's experience. I want something. I get it, because I guess my family can afford it. This is boring. Okay, we'll pay someone to fold your laundry or I have to go on an errand. You know, you're gonna come with me. Oh, wait, we do have, let's say, a babysitter at home. I can just drop you off and then I'll do this target errand by myself. Because it's not something you want to do. And it's actually so, like, sneaky. Right? And I think about so many families I worked with in my private practice who honestly were like the loveliest, most well intentioned, most hard working humans. I liked them. They weren't this, like, image of, like, snobbery of like, my kids should just, you know, live off at Silver Platter at all. And yet I saw just how easy it was through financial privilege for their kids to never be frustrated, never wait, never have to do boring stuff, and never have to go along in some ways with someone else's activity. And if you have the finances to make that happen. I'm a pragmatist. You do have to be insanely mindful about moments where you actually just make sure you don't remove those, like, basic life experiences. So, you know, I'll use this. I'll use a small example from my own life where we have three kids, there's two parents. It never adds up. Now that my kids are all old enough to be in activities. And I think it's really important that my oldest especially. Cause he's the one where, like, we've kind of built our life around his activities even more. There's moments where like, you're coming to your sister's basketball game and he's like, I'm old enough. I can just like, walk to my friend's house. Or like, essentially, even though he's not saying this. He's like, I can just do something that's more exciting for me. I can do something that's more built for my own life, right? And the moments we say to him, I'm not saying we do this all the time. Doesn't have to be 100% of the time, but the moments we say to him, you totally could do that. And, like, you're gonna come with us to her game. And there have been times in moments like this, and I'll never forget this, when he was, like, a lot younger, he goes, why do I have to unload the dishwasher? Can't you do that? Or can't someone do this? What he said to me? And it's like an ache moment. It's like, I can't even believe I'm sharing this out loud. Like, oh, what did I do wrong? I'm a horrible parent. And I remember what I said to him. I just said, no one really likes undoing the dishwasher. I just want to be no 1. I just said, I don't have anything more sophisticated. So I just said, to be a good person in life, you just have to do things that you don't want to do. And so the reason you're going to unload the dishwasher with me is because I want to make sure you do grow into, like, a relatively decent human. And I want to make sure you do have certain numbers of experiences where you're just doing stuff that's boring and unenjoyable. Like, that's just. That's the best I got. And it was actually really interesting. Like, I think it satisfied his question because, like, I didn't make up some story again of, like, well, let me tell you about my childhood where I unloaded the dishwasher. Let me explain to you that most people your age in families, like, they're unloading the dishwasher every time because they don't have people who sometimes. And, like, all of a sudden, it's just shame, it's blame. And he's like, I guess I'm a horrible person. And I feel very disconnected to my mom, and any motivation I'd have has, like, totally gone out the window, right? And it was just. That's the reason why. Why are you going with me to Target? Even though you're right, even sometimes, isn't dad at the house? Isn't the house on the way? Yes, I could. And sometimes it's just important to get your body accustomed to doing errands with other people, because that will prepare you for all the times in adulthood when you're just gonna have to do shit you don't want to do. So we're gonna put an experience in.

Becky (14:27)

That bucket and you can thank me later.

Dr. Becky (14:29)

Which, by the way, you know, doesn't really come. So when I talk to parents, there's.

Jesse (14:38)

Often huge variety and kind of the top quality they wish for in their kid. Some people say confident, some people say caring, some people say bold. And there's almost universal agreement in the number one quality.

Dr. Becky (14:53)

Parents don't want their kids to have entitlement.

Jesse (14:57)

Over and over I have parents asking me, are there things I can do now so that my kid doesn't become entitled later on? And the truth is, there are. And so I wanted to put all of my thoughts down in one place and I created something brand new, a How to Avoid Entitlement guide. It's all practical strategies and specific scripts you can use so you know your kids are building the skills they need and that they are going to avoid that entitled outcome. It's available within membership. So if you're already a member, just search Avoid Entitlement within our member library. Or if you're not yet a member and want to check it out, check the link in the show notes.

Producer Jesse (15:49)

Can we circle back to this? You said they might thank you later. He might thank you later, which he never will. Let's go back to the thank yous because I feel like we can forgive so much shittiness behavior when it's accompanied with like an apology or later a thank you. This was so lovely, or this was really great or best day ever or whatever they say. What is your recommendations for? I feel like gratitude practice is the thing we hear about all the time. I'm curious what you think of that. And like thank you letters after birthday parties. Yeah, like, are you.

Dr. Becky (16:26)

Yeah. I mean, so let's talk about gratitude. So the way I think about gratitude is gratitude is a feeling to me, not a behavior. And I think that's really important because to some degree, as a parent, this is the way I think. Like, I'm always working myself out of a job in the best case scenario that obviously I want my kid to always feel connected to me, you know, always can depend on me, but for so many things, like, I want to work myself out of the job. I don't think any of us want to be 20 calling our kids saying, oh, I heard he went to a friend's house. Did you write his mom a thank you note? Like, I don't think any of us want to do that. Right. We hope that our kid at that point will do it. And the only reason my kid is going to do that when they're 20 is that they feel gratitude rather than they think, what's the gratitude action? Right. They're not going to do that on their own. So I think your question is also like, how do our kids end up feeling gratitude? When can we expect that? And then how do we help our kids turn that feeling into, you know, an action? So where's the situation? You feel like that my kid isn't doing that. And it's just like, irksome in my.

Producer Jesse (17:37)

Household all the time. But for example, we took the kids ice skating and out for ramen on a, like, random Tuesday. And it was a fun. It should have been our date night. We took the kids out with us. It was, you know, and when we got home, there was no. There was like, all of this, I don't wanna take a shower, I don't wanna finish my homework. You know, and it was like the day had been forgotten because suddenly we got home and we were back to the normal shit that they have to do.

Dr. Becky (18:08)

Yes, that completely resonates again. I think there's so much in me too where we conflate our kids gratitude with the gap between our hope and then the reality. Like, we're like, I'm leaving work early, I'm taking my kids to the special event. And we don't even realize that some part of us is like, my kids better be grateful for that. Right. Which again, I'm thinking if my husband ever did something for me. And at the end he was like, you're not even grateful. I'm like, oh, is that like the reason you did this? Cause, like, now it doesn't even feel good? Or like, I thought you wanted to take me out to dinner. Like, I don't know. Right. And so I think we have to like, put a little bit of a mirror back on ourselves. Okay. The second thing is gratitude as a feeling, I think is really dependent on mindfulness and noticing. And I'll explain what I mean, like, one of the things we want our kids to notice in that situation. It's like, this was a really different Tuesday. Like, I didn't just do my homework and like, go to bed. I, like, had this really fun night out. I'm like, noticing that. And there's a mindfulness to noticing where you have to slow down to notice. We all know that sometimes you don't notice anything. We're just speeding through life And I know for me, I'm not great at modeling or infusing mindfulness and noticing because I can just run at lightning speed. So this is important to me, which I understand that it is. Of course we want our kids to notice. This is a different night. My parent left work earlier. My parent didn't work. Leave work early, but plan this. And this is so cool. We have to actually infuse that noticing and mindfulness into our life. So maybe I'm getting in the car and I'm saying on the way to the ramen place, you know what I'm thinking about? Like, most of the time, I don't know, we're eating chicken nuggets and pizza and we're doing something totally different, right? And I might try to set myself up for success and think, you know, I'm thinking some of the food might not taste the way we're used to. Some of the food might even make us feel like, ooh, I don't like this. It's just new. It's kind of different. It's nice to add some spice to our lives. Right, guys? Okay. Really looking forward to dinner. What my kid is picking up on is actually they're learning through my modeling to notice the different things in their life versus in my house. This could be my husband's driving. I'm kind of on my phone working. I get there, I'm kind of distracted. You know, my kids are like, where's mom? I don't know. She's not really present. Anyway, they get food that someone's telling them they should like and looks totally different, and they're just kind of surprised by it. And then we feel frustrated. Like, I took you to ramen and you don't even appreciate it. Right? And so, again, this doesn't mean this is our fault. I don't think it's our fault. But if it really matters to us for our kids to develop these feelings and these skills, I think we can think, okay, so what? Like, where's my power? Like, what can I do? Because before my kid at the end of the night says, thank you for doing that, my kid has to notice. You know, silly as it sounds, we did that. Like, wow, we did that. And in our busy lives, a lot of us aren't really great at that. So then at the end, maybe I would say, wow, that was a really different night. I'm like, so glad we did that. What about you? And I'm guessing my kid might say, yeah, that was really cool. Or I might say, and I think this is really important. What part of this dinner will you remember? And they'll be like, oh, I'm definitely gonna remember when I brought us this wrong dish and everyone tried it, and it wasn't even ours. I don't know. I wonder if we'd be as focused on our kids saying thank you if we had a moment of, like, meaningful connection around, like, noticing this different experience. Like, I just don't even imagine myself being like. And you didn't even say thank you. Like, I wonder to some degree if what we're saying when we get there is, I don't really feel connected to you. I feel like we together weren't really noticing how different and special this was. And if we did have that bucket filled, I don't know if I'd be as hung up on, like, those two specific words. Also, my guess is those two specific words, thank you, would probably come out more naturally because of the experience we just had together.

Producer Jesse (22:03)

Thank you.

Dr. Becky (22:06)

So also, I should say there is something for manners that's just like, practice. And I really do think it's empowering to think about our kids kind of bad behavior. We can either look at their bad behavior as a sign of who they are, or we can look at their bad behavior as a sign of the skills they need to build and practice. And I think those two buckets would lead us to 180 degree different interventions if I look at them as a sign of who they are. You even say thank you. I literally took you to ramen. I took you ice skating. This is the best night ever. You are such a spoiled and entitled kid. I'm not doing something like this again.

Producer Jesse (22:39)

Okay.

Dr. Becky (22:39)

And I can say those words with such eloquence because I've said them from my own mouth. I'm sure you've never said things like that. No, I have Never. No, never. Okay. Or if I think my kid needs practice noticing and slowing down, my kid needs practice with a little perspective taking. Oh, wait. I actually don't often do this on a Tuesday night, and actually, a lot of kids don't. That's kind of cool. And then my kid probably also needs practice taking those things and turning it into a heartfelt thank you. Those are actually all skills, if we think about it as a coach. I don't know anyone who teaches someone how to swim by sending them to their room and telling them they're a bad swimmer. I just don't think we'd hire that coach or take on that coach for our kid. Right. We'd say, you don't have the skill yet. Let me teach you a new way and let me give you opportunities to practice still. It won't happen in the pool swimming, but the more I do that, the more likely it's gonna happen. So I might say to my kid, let's say before they're seeing their great aunt who always gives them a birthday present that they hate. Okay, let's just say that's happening, right? And we wanna avoid the cringe of like, why did you get me this? Or I already have this, or you never get me things I like. You know, something right? Cringe worthy like that. Well, if I think about it as a skill, I would say to my kid before, what's it gonna be like if she again gives you a gift you don't really love? That's tricky, right? And let's say my kid's like, yeah, it's gonna be the worst. I might model again, think about it as a skill that's really hard, you know, like, look, anyone getting a birthday gift wants it to be something they want. And I think that's also really important. If I wanted a necklace for my husband and he gave me a slow cooker, I don't think anyone would fault me for like, I don't know, having a reaction, okay? So doesn't mean I'm a horrible person, just means I'm human. So I might say, look, yeah, it's tricky. It stinks to get something they don't want. And also I'm just thinking like your aunt puts in time. It's, you know, you wish she put in time a different way. She did. Like she was really holding you in her mind. And I may even say this to my kid, like it's really an interesting thing. Can we be grateful for someone's intention even when the outcome isn't what we want? What do you think about that? And look, I'm very aware kids can say, mom, you're so annoying. I don't know. Okay, but you're just. I always think we want to teach our kids how to think, not what to think. And how to think often comes from asking our kids more questions and giving them lectures. And I would bet, I would bet a decent amount that even planting that before would actually totally change the way your kid responds in the moment in a much more powerful way than saying, if you don't thank your aunt, I'm going to take away your iPad. Like, you know, which is basically saying you're a bad, spoiled, entitled kid. And so I just, I think when we Think about, how do we. How do we raise kids who aren't assholes? How do we make sure my kid doesn't become an asshole? If you have this collection of moments that happens with your kids, I would actually, like, ask you to almost look one way and say, like, that's a sign they're a bad, entitled kid. Okay, that's just not going to be productive. And take a deep breath and just gaze in the opposite direction. And even if you don't know what's in front of you, the road you're on is saying, my kid needs skills. They literally are missing skills. That's what these behaviors mean. Doesn't mean they're a bad person. It means I need to help them build skills. And what you're saying also is part of a bigger picture with parenting. I feel like we know the outcome we want for our kid, right? We kind of all want similar things. We want them to feel pretty good about themselves. We want them to be able to take on hard things. We want them to be able to deal with disappointment and frustration. We want them to be able to access gratitude. Okay, that's a destination. Well, we need a map, usually to get to destinations. And that map always includes building skills, practicing them. A lot of what I'm sharing here, and there's so many other things we can do as well, and it really is like coaching them. I'm not trying to say it's that simple in practice, but the framework is actually kind of simple. And once you understand that your kids actually need skills as opposed to needing a lecture or punishment, you actually start making progress on that map and you start to see signs. And I really mean this. You start to see signs of the destination, which is that much more of a motivation to keep going.

Producer Jesse (26:43)

Where could I read more about this on the community? Becky?

Dr. Becky (26:47)

So I've done a lot of thinking about this recently. Obviously, you and I have talked about it a little bit. I've been hearing a lot about this from parents. This fear of entitlement. Like, really. And I think this is really interesting that, like, when I connect with parents, I'm like, tell me the number one quality you want in your kid. I hear such a variety of things. Like, there's some repetition, but sometimes I hear independence. Okay? I hear creative. I hear confident. I hear empathic, humble. It's like a huge variety. And when I ask all those parents tell me the number one quality you don't want in your kid, I swear, like, 95% of them say entitled. The other 5% in my little story, say selfish, which, like, I don't know, like 95%, 95% of parents, like, want to avoid the same thing. And I think our biggest struggle with entitlement and helping our kids avoid it is simply that people don't understand it. And you can't fix a problem anyone. We can't fix problems we don't understand. And so I think step one is actually breaking down what entitlement is. It's a symptom of kind of a larger struggle with your relationship with frustration. That's really what it is. It's all about your frustration tolerance. Actually, entitlement is complete frustration intolerance. It's the experience of I'm not supposed to feel frustrated, I'm not supposed to feel disappointed, I'm not supposed to wait. And the positive of seeing it that way is, okay, so there's a whole set of skills parents can learn so that kids can learn, so that they learn to tolerate frustration and waiting. So they learn how to be patient and how they learn then after that to access gratitude. We can't access gratitude when we're overwhelmed with frustration and disappointment. Just impossible. So yes, you know me, Jesse. I hate having ideas that I don't translate into actionable strategies. Cause I don't understand ideas that aren't translated into actionable steps. And so yes, I created. It's not a workshop because I know parents want so many things that are written and they just don't have the time, like all the time to watch something. So I made it into a guide. It's pretty robust. It's kind of all the learnings that would go into a workshop, but actually in a much shorter step by step guide with strategies, with scripts. The Guide to avoiding Entitlement. If you're a member, just search it in our library. It'll come up. And I feel so, so hopeful for all the parents engaging in this way that they will actually start saying to themselves, and I mean this, I'm not so worried my kid's going to be an asshole. Like, I actually do believe I have the right map now to get to the destination I want to go.

Becky (29:24)

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsome at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt and Kristin Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside SA.