A (3:44)

Didn'T turn out well for you. You know, you really got stuck there.

B (3:48)

But, you know, gymnastics wasn't my first thing that I did, but obviously it's been my last. So I'm happy that my parents saw that in me.

A (3:58)

You know, Gina, I actually wanna zoom in with you to that parenting moment because there are so many things in our kids that I think can be looked at in two ways. One is, what is wrong with my child? Why can't my kid behave in the outfield or in class or in a music group, whatever it is, why can't my kid behave like everyone else? And a different framework for the same moment could be. Hold on, is there something spiky, exceptional, very them here and can I help them channel it? And so I'm just curious, if you go to that moment, there can be shame. As a parent I remember I was like, why is my kid the only one, you know, not able to stay in center field? And it seems like you, you saw something and you looked to kind of take down the channel this route instead of the what is wrong with my daughter route. So I wonder if you could bring us there.

C (4:48)

We knew she had a lot of energy and other people pointed it out probably more than we did. In particular, we had, you know, the kids basketball game. She's supposed to be sitting with us and she just can't. She wants to be doing cartwheels down, you know, on the floor. And somebody had come to us and they were like, oh, wow, you know, she. How long has she been in gymnastics? She looks like, you know, she's doing great. And we're just laughing because she's never spent a moment in gymnastics. At that point, she was just full of energy. We knew she needed an outlet. And the crazy thing is, is that there's a little story behind this. My. My husband, he stayed home with the kids. I had a work trip, and when I came back, literally flew in. He picked me up from the airport, and he looked at me and he said, we gotta do something. We have to do something. She went off the walls, and we just knew she needed some kind of focus. And track was good. T ball was only good while she was active, and definitely not when she was in the outfield. We kind of laughed it off. We didn't. We didn't want to make her feel like something was off or wrong. We just knew we needed to give her some type of outlet and then, you know, burn off that energy. And so my husband was like, how about we take her to that place that everybody's been telling us about? So we did, and literally was eight minutes from the house. Took her just so she could get her energy out. And then the story continues from there.

A (6:27)

And she did. And she did take that energy out. Jordan, I could hear when you were talking about gymnastics early on, you started it. It was not. There was no pressure right away. It wasn't like, we're putting you in this program. It was like, here, this might be good for all this energy. I'd love to hear from you as you went through some of those early years. I think a lot about how when people get good at something and get serious, it can almost be hard to preserve the joy and the ebullience. I'm curious how those two things went for you as you went on.

B (6:59)

When I was younger, I thought I was a superhero. Our parents. I know it's kind of crazy to say, but our parents told us when we were younger that they were superheroes. So when I went into gymnastics, I was like, oh, maybe they gave me their superpowers. You know, I think as a little kid, you know, you always have this. This ability to really look into what you're trying to do and always have joy in it, because you're like, wait, I don't have to do this for the rest of my life. I'm just having fun with it. I get to go, I get to jump. I get to do all those things, because, again, it was like an outlet to me. Like, I would, you know, it was like, okay, maybe I'll get a reward after. Like, maybe it's something that, you know, my parents would be proud of me that I'm actually focusing in school. Like, that's how I was seeing it because it was something that I needed in order to take tests, in order to, you know, actually listen to my teacher. So that Joy was always there. I always had fun. I started to realize at the age about 11 or 12 years old when I started to realize I actually have a talent and gift at this. Yes, I loved winning because I'm competitive. I get it from my parents. Yes, I love the ribbons and the medals and standing on a podium. And that's what I was doing since I was 7 years old. But by the time I was 12, I was like, wait, I actually have something in this. Like, I actually am very gifted and talented at this. Like, nobody does this every day where they can just wake up and do flips on a 4 inch piece of wood. Like, I don't, you know, people don't get to swing from the uneven bars or even flip on a hardwood floor. Like, those things aren't typical that people do. So maybe I do have a talent in a gift and this can actually take me to the next level. So that joy started to fade as I got older, obviously, because it started to get more intense and it started to get more, you know, actually into wait, your dream can actually come true. Like, this is something that you can fulfill and actually become somebody, make a name for yourself. At a young age, I knew I was going to become an entertainer and I knew I was going to be somebody. I have Pinterest boards. I had all those things I was telling my mom, like I would put dress up clothes on with the fashion. Like all those things. I knew I was going to become somebody. I just didn't know how. So when my sport started to make me realize that, that's when I was like, wait, we actually have to work. We actually have to do the job in order to get to where we need to go. So that Joy, yes, started to die. But obviously there are, you know, stories that come along with that. I was, you know, emotionally abused. I was verbally abused by a coach. You know, I had things that I went through. I didn't, it didn't know in that time. But as I got older, obviously I did, you know, I, I saw it and I had to fight through those moments. I had to really, you know, put myself in a position to where I can look back and be like, you know, what did she get me to a point to where I was able to now go to the next level and fulfill something? Yes, she did. But the things that came along with it weren't right. That's not how coaches should be. That's not how any of, you know, the things should have gone. But I try to keep as much joy in my life as possible, and that's where my schooling came into play. I went to public school, and that was the one thing I told my parents. I was like, I need to go to public school because of everything I'm going through in my sport. I need to go to a prom. I need to go to. So that's what my parents made sure that I was capable of doing, because I didn't want to grow up in a way of being like, you know what? I regret everything that I did. Don't feel confident and comfortable of becoming an Olympian, because it wasn't how I wanted to do it. So it was like all those things came into play, and that's where that joy was. My support system was my joy, all those things. So younger self. Oh, we had joy all the time. But that mid teen, you know, self, the joy started fading. But I had another outlet that I could bring that joy still and make sure that I was still fulfilling everything so important.

A (11:03)

Gina, do you remember the moment when you were like, oh, this is more than my daughter getting her energy out like this. There is really something here, you know? Could you share one of them?

C (11:16)

Yeah, definitely. I didn't know gymnastics. Gymnastics wasn't in our wheelhouse at all. None of us are gymnasts. My husband, myself, actually the least flexible person in the world. So, like, all of that was. It was foreign to me. And, you know, like, my eyes were kind of leaning and kind of pushing her towards the track route. She's extremely fast, and I still tell her to this day, like, we could do this. Like, let's go. But her heart and her heart really just led her through gymnastics and all of the craziness that comes along with it. Um, so I was always asking other people, like, you know, like, hey, I don't want to continue to pay this monthly fee. I know that's hilarious, but that was our thought pattern. Like, this monthly fee is crazy. We don't want to keep paying it if she's not that good. And my brother kept assuring us that, like, no, she's actually good. And that first year that she was in it, we didn't tell her about scores. We didn't tell her about, like, you know the ins and outs of gymnastics because she was having so much fun. We were like, this is. This is great. Like, it's getting the energy out. She's doing better at sitting and paying attention, and she's just having so much fun. But Jordan just is a naturally competitive person. And she started to see other kids on the podium, and she came and asked us, like, you know, why. Why. Why are they not calling my name? And keep in mind, this is the very first year that she's in competitive gymnastics. And it broke our heart to, you know, that we had to have that conversation because she was having so much fun, and we didn't want it to change into something different. And so we told her, and the minute we told her, that was it. I don't think there was ever a podium Jordan wasn't standing on. And it just became. It became evident at that time, I would say level five. Jordan laughing at the top of the podium. And I looked at her and I'm like, wait, this is something. This is something a little bit different. And she was. She was literally. I think, gosh, she was maybe seven and a half years old when we realized that she had something special.

A (13:41)

Jordan, I want to transition a little. We'll hear about a lot of your successes. We all have seen amazing success, and I think what we often miss and. Right. No one's life, no one athletics career is up and to the right at every moment. Right. And so I'm wondering if you could take us to a specific routine or competition where something didn't go the way you wanted it to.

B (14:04)

I think the biggest one was probably Tokyo 2021. I went into Tokyo being the only person who hit 24 for 24 routines prior to making the Olympic team. And my goal was like, okay, I'm the consistency queen. Like, I'm going to go out there and do everything that I need to do. Well, that didn't go as planned. Tokyo beam was up, and it just went into pieces. I fell, and I literally was just, like, I had this in the bag. Like, I was the only person who is consistent this whole entire year. And then you go on to the biggest stage of your life and you mess up. Like, come on now. Like, I felt so out of pocket. Like, it just did not feel right. I felt like I failed the whole entire world because it was my first Olympics, and it was on the biggest stage of my life, and it was literally the craziest. Like, I think I called my mom after qualifications and said, there's no point of me being on this team, I failed everybody. I just, you know, I went through it. Literally. I felt like I went through a midlife crisis, and I was only 19 years old. Like, everything in my world just felt like it went dark.

A (15:27)

Gina, can you take me to that moment?

C (15:29)

To that.

A (15:29)

The first time you talked to Jordan after, you know, when she opened up to you. Yeah. What's going on for you?

C (15:35)

Yeah. It was probably the hardest moment that. That I've had to deal with because I've never, you know, we've. We've been crazy to tell our. Our kids that every single thing that you ever desire, your dreams can come true.

A (15:53)

And.

C (15:53)

And, you know, we. People would kind of put us on the spot and say, you're setting them up for failure. And we just didn't pay them any mind because we truly, truly believed in our heart that if it's something that you want and you work hard for it, that. That these things will come. But what we never faked was that there's going to be disappointments along the way, and then you have choices that you have to make whether you want to continue forward. One thing I never had heard out of her mouth ever, was the word failure. And so, you know, it's like three o' clock in the morning because, you know, it was during COVID they didn't allow families or anyone spectators to go to the Olympics.

A (16:35)

She.

C (16:35)

She's in Tokyo. So we're on different time zones. The entire family is up watching. There's cameras that are in the room because they're trying to capture our reaction. And I know Jordan said beam, but it was actually bars. She went up on an event which she had actually hit all the time. 24 for 24 is just unheard of. And when that phone rang, like, cry. She was crying immediately, which, of course, like, hit me through to my soul. Like, it was just so hard because it is the biggest stage and. And you had other people who are depending on you. And the first thing that came out of her mouth was, mom, I failed. I'm a failure. And she just kept saying it over and over again, and I was like, no, you are an Olympian. Like, you have made it to that out of everyone, out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of gymnasts who. Who have given everything that they have, just like you have. You're one of four people to stand up there and. And compete for the United States. Like, I just kept trying to tell her, like, I. I don't ever want to hear you say that. Never, ever. You are not a failure. This is a success. This is a moment that you feel like you have let people down, but you have not let us down because we could care less what it what happen. You have given everything you can for your team and your dream. And you are still Jordan Childs. You are still Jordan Childs. You are not a failure. And then, you know, she just. She just stayed in that moment. And I was like, what do I do? And I remember my oldest daughter, after two weeks at college saying, I want to come home. And you're devastated and you want them to come home because you miss them. But you know that that is not an option. And that just came to my head. And I told her, I said, jordan, there team finals that are still coming, you have to be there for your team. This is what you signed up for. You pull yourself together and you be there for your team. This doesn't have to be the end of everything because she was asking for us to put her on a flight to fly home. Like, she was done. She goes, I don't want to be here. I am absolutely done. And we were like, no, we are not going to do that. You have to finish this job. This is why you, you know, this is why you were there. It was the hardest thing to do because we wanted her to come, we wanted to hug her, we wanted to tell her, it's okay, everything's going to be all right. But we knew she still had it in her. And you know, then history is already written. We know what happened in those moments. We were just as shocked during team finals. We had no idea what was going on. Keep in mind, the families are very close. And so we were like, what is going on? And we knew when Simone had pulled, we didn't understand why Jordan was chalking up. We were like, why is she putting on her grips? Because we knew she wasn't going to do bars. We didn't understand what was happening. And then all of a sudden, it just hit us like, Jordan is going in on all four events.

A (19:51)

I truly have the chills. My heart just is so struck by this. And Gina, you know, you're talking about, obviously talking about the Olympics. High stakes. A lot of people listening here, they're not going to be in that situation. But you are embodying, honestly, what I think is the bravest and most important act of love a parent can do for their kid in any situation is to see their struggle and their pain and believe in them, is to believe in your kid when they in that moment, cannot believe in themselves. And to see Their pain as real, but to not collapse into it with them. Like, you have something in you. Like, you, Jordan, obviously, you're one of the strongest human beings. And still, I think, like we were saying, any human loses access to that in themselves some moments. And you need the people who care about you to see something in you that is a little bit clouded in that moment. And, Gina, what you're saying, like, I know as a parent who's never been in that situation, but others, like, it takes everything as a parent. Cause you just wanna rescue them and take them out and say, fine, let's kind of burn this to the ground and let's be comfortable together. And it's just so beautiful and inspiring. And then what happened from there, you know, it's just. It's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that with such detail. I think it's just. It's so striking. I want to ask you, Jordan, I don't know if this question is going to make sense, so take it in. Let me know. You're a gymnast, but your mom said something interesting that struck me. Like, you are still Jordan Chiles, which I don't know if that's what you meant, Gina, but, like, you're also someone who's more than any one thing, than any one routine, than any fall, than being 24 out of 25, that's more than gymnastics, period. And curious how you navigated this. I feel like intense sports. When you spend so many hours doing something, it can be confusing. Like, am I. Am I the thing? Am I anything else? Do I matter? I don't know if that resonates. I'm curious what you have to say about that.

B (22:07)

Yeah, before I. Before I talk. Mom, it was on B. I did a full. Into my face.

C (22:13)

Yeah, you did.

B (22:15)

So was it two events that I fell on? Because that's even crazier. Wow.

C (22:21)

Okay.

B (22:21)

Anyways, besides that.

A (22:22)

No. But, Jordi, let's stay with that for a second, because isn't this so interesting? This wasn't 30 years ago, right? Obviously. But it's so interesting how a moment, and this is such a life lesson. A moment feels like everything. That's why I have to go away. The moment feels like the whole truth of you and nothing else will ever be true. And here you are, less than five years. I mean, it's not that long. And. And the details of it are murky. It's kind of amazing how much we recover and become more than a moment. But in the moment, no one can tell you that that's gonna happen. You almost don't believe it, right?

B (22:55)

No, exactly. That's why I was. Obviously, that Olympics was. Yes, it's still embedded in my head. But I guess I, you know, I take the good moments out of it. And, you know, the last time I really had to talk about that moment was when I was writing my book. So it is crazy to know that. But I guess that kind of goes into your. Your question that you asked about, you know, the Jordan Childs, the. The human. And the Jordan child is the athlete. And my freshman year of college is when I was like, wait, this is life. Like, whoa, what is going on? Like, I actually can have school friends and I can, you know, go to the football games with my teammates. Like, I can go to basketball. Like, I can actually live a life. I can. And I keep in mind I live in California, so I'm like, over here. Like, I can go to Santa Monica. Like, I can do all these things and feel normal. Wow, this is great. I got treated just like a college student. I got told, you have to go do this, you have to go do that. Which I appreciated because that made me realize that my sport doesn't define who I am. Nothing can define who I am. Except for Jordan Child's. The human, the girl that grew up knowing that she was going to be an entertainer, having the support system, having the parents that she has, her siblings, all these things. And that was still within me. And that's where self expression comes into play. And that's why, you know, I did Dancing with the Stars, because that was another thing that I felt like I could have as an outlet to show the world there is more than just my sport to me. I can be an entertainer. I can. You know, I wanted to dance ever since I was little. So I'm showing you that. And I can be anything I want to be. My parents taught us, if you have a goal and if you have something that you want to do, go do it now. Will it take you a while to get there?

A (24:44)

Maybe.

B (24:45)

Obviously. Obviously for me it did. Because you have to be a certain age to be, you know, at the Olympic Games and all that. So, yes, it did take me a while. But do I regret anything? No. Now, do I wish things could change in that path? Maybe so. But at the end of the day, I learned so much about myself that I was like, you know what? When I go into my 20s now, how can I separate the two? I don't talk. And that was the one thing I told my mom. And she, she doesn't like this because she always wants to talk about my sport. And the moment I told her, I was like, yo, I'm at home. I do not want to talk about this anymore. Having that mindset of understanding gymnastics is in the gym. The moment I walk out, I'm Jordan. You call me Joe. You can call me.

A (25:35)

You can.

B (25:36)

You can do whatever. Great. That's that Jordan. But then I have this other Jordan that is dominant, that is confident, that is resilient, that is, you know, beautiful, dynamic gymnast that does her work when she needs to.

A (25:50)

And, Gina, what about for you, when Jordan was growing up, how did you, as her parent, encourage this clear love for gymnastics talent for the sport? And, you know, I'm guessing if that's the only focus of a parent, who's my parent, who's my coach, who's, you know, who am I to my parent? That can get, you know, stressful and burdensome, too. So how did you think about that when Jordan was younger?

C (26:13)

Yeah, it's crazy that Jordan brings that up, because that's probably the one thing parents come up to me and my husband all the time. They want, like, a roadmap. They want to talk to us. How did it go? My kid is small, and one of the very first thing that we tell them is, you know, like, quick piece of advice. When they leave the gym, do not ask them about gymnastics. And it came because of that conversation that Jordan had with me, because, of course we want to know, how did it go? How was everything there? Did you tumble? You know, all of the details. And when they're little, it's fine, right? Because they want to tell you everything. As they start to grow, it starts to become a little bit annoying. And then a lot of pressure because they're under pressure at gym, and then you're putting them under pressure when they get home. There needs to be that clear separation of when you get home. This is your free time. This is your time to be whatever you want to be, do whatever you want to do. And then what we noticed is Jordan would start to come to us and tell us about her day, because she wanted to. So we didn't have to ask her anymore if there was something she needed to tell us about how her day went. She would bring us video, which she still does to this day. Right? Is that she'll show us, oh, guess what I did. And she'll show us a video. So that. That is definitely one. It's interesting that she brought that up, because that is the. The main piece of advice that we give to. To Parents. The other thing is, is that to be aware that this is their dream and to help them along the way when they forget that that is what they wanted. Right? Because especially, you know, the people who may be listening to this, maybe their kid isn't an elite gymnast, but they are wanting to be, or they are very serious about their sport, or they're considering it. But the most difficult thing is when you start to want it more than the kid. That's one thing. And two, when the kid starts to forget that it was their idea, that this was something that they loved at some point. Because with gymnastics, Jordan, we knew we could. We could start to tell, like, something was. Was a little bit off. And Jordan used to leave us little notes, and she. She would never. She didn't really have the. The courage at that time to just come out and say what she was thinking. She would write a note, leave it on the counter downstairs, and then leave to school so that we would, you know, find it. And it would always be this big dramat sequence. I hate it. I hate the sport. I hate everything about it. Because she was really struggling with the individual who she was training under. And. And one of the things that we said is that nobody, no one, and. And this. This holds true for everything in life. No one can alter the direction that you're going in except for you. They don't. They don't have the right. They have no lawful right to change your direction. You have to allow them to do it, or you have to want to do it. That is it. You either allow somebody. And so we'd always say you have to use these things as fuel to the fire. And remember that you actually love this. You love this sport, Jordan. You may not love the things that come with it and the experiences that you've had that are negative, but if you strip everything down, what do you want to do? And she would always come back and say, well, I want to be an Olympian. And we're like, all right, well, that's our focus. That's where we go. That's where we drive.

A (30:08)

Jordan, I'm curious, you know, in all your years, your training, how much did you focus on, or did it come naturally on your mindset, how you talk to yourself? Kind of the psychology of all of it.

B (30:21)

I think the self talk came from my experience from the time I was 17 till me moving to Texas. I did go through a very, very rough patch during that time period to where really, in all reality, that, you know, I was going to be done. I told my parents I'm done with this. I don't want to do it anymore. That's when the courage came to actually tell them. And, you know, because of a certain individual. And so it came to a point to where I was like, you know what? Maybe I need to, you know, find a way to motivate myself instead of allowing everybody around me to continue to motivate me. Because it's like, if you can't motivate yourself, then the emotions and the feelings that everybody's putting into you isn't really doing anything. I started to really give myself these mottos each and every year. It just started, you know, after Tokyo, and each motto had a meaning to it. And so, you know, from when those little myths, you know, not done yet. Always believe in the power of your dreams to even the one that is still going on now to I'm that girl. And so all these affirmations, I started to realize they were helping me in a good way, but also impacting everybody else around me. How can I motivate myself into continuing on the path that I know that I'm capable of doing? I have a talent. I have a gift. What more can I give? That goes all back to what is my why? And my why, basically, is, you know, I can be that person that I was, you know, the caterpillar before you become the butterfly. Like, I wanted to be able to just allow the younger generation to understand that failure is okay and that saying no is okay, and that using your voice is okay, and that allowing yourself to really be heard and be in your own shoes and your own narrative, it is all okay. Being yourself, it is okay.

A (32:31)

All right. I want to end with a little rapid fire, like, overtime. I know there's not really, like, an overtime in gymnastics, but bear with me. Okay, so, Jordan, starting with you, superstition or ritual that you engage in around gymnastics.

B (32:45)

I didn't. Well, I say I didn't have one, but my parents said that I always had to have pfting lettuce wraps before a meet. That's kind of one. But I don't have any now. I'm not like a superstition person.

A (33:00)

Gina, what about you? Do you do something before Jordan's meets or before watching her, you know?

B (33:05)

Yeah, I don't eat.

C (33:07)

I do the opposite.

A (33:08)

I can't.

C (33:08)

I get sick to my stomach.

A (33:11)

All right, we got some superstitions and rituals around food. All right, Jordan, a moment you're proud of.

B (33:17)

Does it have to be in gymnastics? I can do it. No.

A (33:20)

Okay, answer as you will.

B (33:23)

Okay. One moment that I'm proud of would probably be not allowing myself to quit at my weakest moments.

A (33:36)

Mm, so good. Gina, what about a moment? I mean, not that you're proud of for Jordan, I'm sure there's so many a moment you're proud of how you handled it as a parent of this super, you know, this Olympic athlete.

C (33:51)

When we discovered that the relationship with her previous coach was. Was not good, I apologized to my child because my one job was to protect her. And in that moment, she wasn't being protected. So it was a huge moment. We remember it very well. We were in our car and pulled up to the driveway, didn't open the door, and I just told her, I'm sorry. Like, I apologize. Like, that was my job.

A (34:24)

You know, I don't know if you know this, but at.

C (34:26)

Good.

A (34:26)

Inside, we say the most important parenting strategy in the world is repair. And I always tell parents we're so hard on ourselves about our struggles or our mistakes, but think about it. You can't get good at repair if you haven't messed up, which means it's more about the thing you do next than the thing. And I think you're just. That's so beautiful, Jordan. The thing you most appreciate about your.

B (34:48)

Relationship with your mom, not doubting me in what imaginations that I had.

A (34:54)

And, Gina, what do you most appreciate in your relationship with your daughter?

C (34:56)

That she feels free to be real in conversation, and I get a kick out of that.

A (35:04)

Something you would tell the parents listening if they have a kid in competitive sports.

C (35:10)

I think that it's important that you read between the lines and that you listen. We're so good at talking, giving advice, and over stating, you know, our intentions. I think it's important that we listen and really see sometimes, you know, we don't want to see what we're seeing, and so we act like it's not there, but really see it and respond appropriately because ultimately they're in your care and you have to make those hard decisions. So just listen. Listen to what they're saying. Don't discount it.

A (35:46)

This. This conversation will stay with me for a very long time. Like, it lands on my heart. Say, this is so, so incredible to talk to the two of you. You're. And to see your relationship, and I'm blown away. So thank you. Thank you for everything you've given to the sport, to the country. Thank you for everything you've shared here. It's going to help so many kids and parents, and I'm really, really grateful thank you.

C (36:07)

Thank you, Dr. Becky. We appreciate you.

A (36:15)

I feel so inspired by that conversation. I learned so much. There are so many things that Jordan and Gina said that are going to stick with me, and I'm going to share the three things that are loudest in my mind right now just to bring them to the surface. Number one, I love how Jordan embodies the idea that you are more than a moment. You are more than any one thing. And I love how she does it in such an imperfect, totally human way. You're gonna have a hard moment, and anybody, whether you're a successful athlete or you don't do sports at all, you're going to sink into those emotions. It's going to feel awful, and that moment isn't who you are. Two, Gina really embodies that power of repair. A moment she's proudest of. Okay. In her parenting of her Olympic gymnast child is a moment she said, sorry, may that be the standard for all of us parents. And then three, I love how Jordan talked about being a caterpillar for someone else's butterfly. I think so many times we can get really sucked into our world and what's happening right now. And there's something really opening and powerful and community oriented and generative in thinking about the impact we're going to have on our kids and other parents and just future generations. And I found that so hopeful and inspiring. Let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon.