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Men Beyond Utility with Dr. John Delony - Good Inside with Dr. Becky | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Men Beyond Utility with Dr. John Delony

Tue May 27 2025

In this episode of Good Inside, Dr. Becky talks with bestselling author and mental health expert Dr. John Delony about the utility trap — the pressure many men feel to always be useful, fix problems, and provide solutions, often at the expense of emotional connection. John shares his own experiences as a dad learning to step out of “fix-it mode” and into emotional presence, vulnerability, and attunement. If you’ve ever felt stuck in the role of provider or problem-solver, or you’re parenting with someone who is, this conversation is a powerful invitation to redefine what it really means to show up.

Summary

Good Inside with Dr. Becky: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Men Beyond Utility with Dr. John Delony
Release Date: May 27, 2025
Host: Dr. Becky Kennedy
Guest: Dr. John Delony

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Good Inside with Dr. Becky, Dr. Becky Kennedy welcomes clinical psychologist Dr. John Delony to explore the evolving landscape of fatherhood. The conversation delves deep into the transition from traditional, utility-focused parenting to a more emotionally connected and resilient approach.

Guest Introduction and Background

Dr. John Delony brings a unique perspective to the discussion, shaped by his upbringing and personal experiences. He shares, “I was raised by a homicide detective and a SWAT hostage negotiator… Now that I'm older, I can look back and say I'm doing things very, very different” (03:32). Delony reflects on the limited toolkit his father provided and his commitment to expanding his own parenting tools to foster a healthier parent-child relationship.

The Shift from Traditional to Emotionally Connected Fatherhood

Delony emphasizes the necessity of breaking away from the rigid, problem-solving archetype of fatherhood. He explains, “Yelling and screaming doesn't solve this problem… My goal has shifted to teaching my kids adaptive strategies” (06:00). This shift underscores a move towards fostering emotional intelligence and presence rather than merely addressing immediate issues.

Challenges and Personal Struggles

Opening up about his vulnerabilities, Delony shares his journey through personal and professional turmoil. “I realized I can just opt out. And that's hard, right? But also, you can't opt out” (04:55). His candid admission highlights the internal battles many fathers face in balancing self-awareness with societal expectations.

Modeling Emotional Presence over Fixing Problems

A pivotal moment in the conversation revolves around the importance of being present. Dr. Becky draws a powerful analogy: “If you want them to swim in the ocean, you start in a training pool” (08:43). Delony agrees, illustrating how modeling calm and supportive behavior equips children with the resilience to handle life’s challenges independently.

Handling Apologies and Admitting Fault

Delony addresses the stigma around fathers admitting mistakes. He states, “There's this idea that if my only value is in the answers I give, then being wrong is an existential threat” (14:35). The discussion highlights how overcoming this barrier is crucial for authentic connections and effective parenting.

Raising Resilient Kids: Lessons from Sports

Using his background in coaching, Delony compares parenting to sports training. “When you throw them off the oil rig and say, get back to shore… it's madness” (08:44). He advocates for incremental challenges that build strength and resilience, rather than overwhelming children with insurmountable tasks.

Addressing Toxic Masculinity and Emotional Ownership

The conversation delves into the impact of toxic masculinity on emotional expression. Dr. Becky notes, “This is like one of my… toxic masculinity… they're saying, I'm upset I lost the game, but instead of feeling that, I turn it into who did this to me” (30:05). Delony concurs, emphasizing the importance of validating children’s emotions without assigning blame.

Grieving Unmet Expectations

Delony shares a poignant account of grieving unmet personal and familial expectations. “I had a picture of what life was going to look like… and now it's different” (27:46). This segment underscores the emotional labor involved in adapting to changes and supporting children through their own transitions.

Building Support Systems and Self-Awareness

Highlighting the significance of community and support, Delony advises fathers to cultivate trusted relationships. “Having a group of men in my life that I can call and trust” (32:27). He recounts how these support systems enabled him to recognize his own struggles and seek necessary help.

Final Takeaways and Closing Reflections

As the episode concludes, both Dr. Becky and Dr. Delony reflect on the legacy they wish to leave for their children. Delony articulates his aspirations succinctly: “I want my kids to say, ‘My dad loves me’ and ‘I can always go home’” (36:29). Dr. Becky echoes similar sentiments, emphasizing the importance of unconditional love and support.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Becky Kennedy (00:00): “What fatherhood looks like. Yelling, punishing, frustration, connection, presence, storytelling.”
Dr. John Delony (03:32): “I'm doing things very, very different. And I can look back at the compass with compassion…”
Dr. John Delony (14:35): “There's an idea that if my only value is in the answers I give, then being wrong is an existential threat.”
Dr. Becky Kennedy (08:43): “If you want them to swim in the ocean, you start in a training pool… you teach skills.”
Dr. John Delony (25:08): “It's my job to help them be the best version of themselves… not to rerun my childhood for me.”
Dr. Becky Kennedy (28:55): “The first step has to happen. It's grief that's not happening. I'm allowed to be upset.”

Conclusion

This episode of Good Inside with Dr. Becky offers profound insights into modern fatherhood, emphasizing emotional presence, resilience, and authentic connections. Dr. John Delony's heartfelt narratives and practical advice provide invaluable guidance for fathers striving to nurture and empower their children in today's complex world.

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Transcript

Dr. Becky Kennedy (0:00)

So I'm on my book tour and this dad comes up to me after and he said, I just have to share the story. He goes, you were kind of like in my head this morning. Then tell me more. He goes, it was this morning I was trying to get my son out the door to school. And he was being difficult, right? He was delaying, wouldn't get his shoes on. And he's like, I really could see the way my dad, like, would have responded to me. I don't know if for sure it's a memory, but I could have guessed. What's wrong with you? You're going to make me late to work. Let's go. A lot of yelling. I would have felt scared. He's like, instead, I heard something you shared a few times that you could do. And I heard myself then say this to my son, that what I ended up saying was, when I was young, I also used to have some mornings when I didn't want to go to school. And he's like, that's all I said. And I didn't expect it to be magical in the moment, even though I kind of knew it would feel good just to relate to him instead of yell at him. And he's like. And it turned out he then just wanted to hear about when I was 4 and 5 and how I didn't like to go to school as he happily put on his shoes and got into the car. And we finally got to school on time. And there was just so much in this in terms of what. What fatherhood looks like. Yelling, punishing, frustration, connection, presence, storytelling. And as I knew you were coming in today, I just. I couldn't help but think that I wanted your kind of perspective on how you think about fatherhood, your journey, what your dad was like, just all of it in terms of that kind of arc.

John (1:44)

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Dr. Becky Kennedy (2:40)

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John (5:53)

When I get frustrated, when I want something a certain way, when even now that I'm trying to. Now that he's getting older to talk through, I really had high hopes for this tour that I went on. And the tickets didn't sell like I wanted them to at these two venues, but they did it this, but not these two. And he's like, man, that's okay. Then I said, hold on, that's not your job to fix for me. I appreciate the. So, yeah, it's been tough, tough, tough. Here's the strange analogy. So I got into mixed martial arts a lot in my mid-20s, and I was with these pro fighters. And what. And there was just coming out of a season when these MMA fighters that were professionals, they didn't have any practice. They would just get in the gym every day and beat each other up. They would just fight, and then they would go do their matches at the end of the week or do their events. And what we started to see over time was, oh, just getting in a room and punching and kicking each other as hard as you possibly can makes you less effective over time. And so now. Now it's just kind of common knowledge. You don't really punch or kick until someone. Until you have signed a contract and you're in a ring. Now we're gonna work on skills. We're gonna, like beating you up, hitting somebody, thinking you're making them tougher, you're not. And so it's Been an arc for me. Like, oh, yelling and screaming doesn't solve this problem. My kids learn adaptive strategies on not how to respond well, but how to not get in trouble with that. And that doesn't help them in the long term. And so my goal has then shifted, and I've got a. My wife has doctored alone along before me. She's. She's way smarter than me. But this. Who do I want them to become? And 99.9% of the challenges I was watching them experience in our home was me, centric. I had to go to sit with a therapist and say, I'm not okay. And these kids are absorbing this. And so if I go do the work for myself and I learn some new skills, then I'm giving them a map on how to work in the real world.

John (10:19)

So every. Like, I had. I had parenting 1.0, and then this one moment shifted. So a cool thing. I was done with graduate school. I was all done. And I had my big, fancy job. And what I was seeing was the students that were coming to me at the university level. They had stopped asking, what am I going to be when I grow up? Can you write me a letter? It was all starting to shift in 2010, 11, 12 to, I don't know if I want to be alive anymore. I've got all these diagnostics. There's something wrong. I'm medicated. Like, it was a mess. And so I went back to grad school because I didn't know what I was doing. And my marriage was falling apart, and my friends. Marriages were falling. Like, I didn't know. I was like, what was happening here? And so I got to go back, but I had to go be an intern again. And there was this extraordinary psychologist, Dr. Michael Gomez, who I still. He's. He was a savant for me, really important. But I remember we were working with traumatized kids, and we were going from room to room and this young kid that we were working with and you know when you were doing forensic stuff, you. They talk and play, right? So we were playing a game where this kid was teaching us how to roll a joint, trying to figure out what he had seen at his house. And we went to this next room and I said he was. This kid was saying some wild things about women. He was like five or six. And it was just kind of throwaway stuff. But I was, I was shocked. And we went from room to room and I said doc, like what are you supposed to say to a kid to teach him to respect women? Well, I had a three year old little boy, right. So I had a vested interest in this. And he just laughed and he's like, you can say whatever you want. They don't listen to you. If you want your kids to respect women, it's important for them to see it. Which meant here we go. Now I got to get a group of men that are older than me that I can sit down, who are wiser than me, and I got to get a gang and then I got to go see a therapist because I got some crap I got to work out.

John (32:27)

I think especially for dads, you have to have a group of men in your life that you can call and trust. When I was. I was an anxious wreck. And that's a whole other podcast. But I wasn't well. And a buddy of mine drove a couple hours. He had just had a new kid, and I had a new kid. I didn't find out until later that my wife had called him and said, I'm worried about John. And he stood out on my driveway in the Texas heat listening to me ramble about how everything's coming down, and he's a finance guy. Like, same haircut since he was 4. Like, love spreadsheets. That's his. That's his love language. And he just said, what you're saying is not true. And I don't know what to tell you, but you need to talk to somebody. And it was. That stoic, quiet statement was the first time I thought, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm not right. And my wife couldn't get through to me on that. My bosses couldn't get through to me on that. Every. The algorithm, everything I watch will just continue to tell me more about how it's somebody else's fault. Having a real person in my life that I trusted. And so both. I've been real fortunate, and it's been something that I curated for a long time is having a group of men in my life that I trust that they will say, we've been there, and hang on, you think divorce is. It's not right now? Like, don't. Or, yeah, of course, you're the problem here. Or, no, that doesn't sound right, man. But it's. It's here's what I know. And you know this. When I get activated, when I go to fight or flight, critical thinking's off. I'm not. And so to make an overly masculine generalization, Special Forces guys don't go out without other people, without eyes in the sky, making sure they can see things they can't see. And so it's foolish of me to try to do something as important as parenting without other people saying, hey, I see. You don't look well. I was in Fort Worth the other night, and a couple of my old college buddies came out to a live event, and one of them said, you don't look good, man. You look tired. And I was like, you're right. Only he could say that.