The New Puberty with Dr. Sheryl Ziegler

Summary

Podcast Title: Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Host: Dr. Becky Kennedy
Episode: The New Puberty with Dr. Cheryl Ziegler
Release Date: July 1, 2025

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Introduction to Early Puberty

In this enlightening episode of Good Inside with Dr. Becky, Dr. Becky Kennedy welcomes Dr. Cheryl Ziegler, a renowned expert on puberty, to discuss the evolving landscape of adolescent development. Dr. Becky emphasizes the importance of addressing puberty proactively, stating, “You need this. Zero from a place of panic, fear mongering. You need this. … Oh, I actually feel more empowered and confident” (00:00).

Puberty on the Decline: Starting Earlier than Ever

Dr. Ziegler sheds light on a significant shift in the onset of puberty. Historically, puberty began around the age of five a century ago, but recent trends indicate that children are entering puberty approximately five years earlier than previous generations. She explains, “Since the 1980s, the stat is every decade, three months younger” (07:11). This acceleration not only shortens childhood but also introduces complex challenges for both parents and children.

Gender Differences in Puberty Onset and Perception

The conversation delves into the distinct experiences of boys and girls during early puberty. Dr. Ziegler highlights that while boys may receive societal praise for early physical development—“you’re the tallest in the class, you’re the one to get muscles first” (08:10)—girls often face hypersexualization and increased mental health risks. She outlines the adverse outcomes for girls experiencing early puberty, including heightened depression, anxiety, and engagement in high-risk behaviors.

Mental Health Implications of Early Puberty

Dr. Ziegler connects the rise in early puberty with a broader mental health crisis among adolescents. She notes, “Endocrinologists were reporting there's all of these young kids coming into my office who have breast buds and who are in puberty… this is part of a mental health crisis” (07:45). The premature onset of puberty disrupts the natural progression of childhood, leading to feelings of lost innocence and increased psychological stress.

Effective Communication: Talking to Children About Puberty

A significant portion of the episode focuses on strategies for parents to communicate effectively with their children about puberty. Dr. Becky and Dr. Ziegler discuss overcoming the inherent awkwardness in these conversations. Dr. Ziegler shares practical advice, such as directly addressing comments from others about a child's body and proactively shifting the conversation to non-physical accomplishments. She advises, “We have to model it for them too” (13:15).

Handling Awkwardness and Building Comfort

Both experts acknowledge that awkwardness is a natural part of these discussions, especially for parents who may not have had these conversations themselves. Dr. Ziegler suggests ways to normalize the dialogue, including role-playing and setting a comfortable environment. She emphasizes the importance of honesty and vulnerability, stating, “You do not need to be smooth. You are not. You can say to them… I might be a little bit weird. And I definitely don't know all the answers” (34:15).

Dr. Ziegler's "The Crucial Years"

Dr. Ziegler introduces her book, The Crucial Years, as a comprehensive guide for parents navigating the challenges of early puberty. She outlines how the book provides actionable scripts and strategies to help parents address and mitigate the risks associated with early puberty. Dr. Becky enthusiastically recommends the book, highlighting its value as a staple resource for families: “This is as good inside as it gets… Just go back 100% and look, this is as good inside as it gets” (37:37).

Conclusion and Empowering Takeaways

The episode concludes with a heartfelt exchange between Dr. Becky and Dr. Ziegler, emphasizing the importance of open, honest, and proactive communication. Dr. Becky reflects, “This conversation has felt like a warm hug to me” (37:37), encapsulating the supportive and empowering nature of their discussion. Listeners are encouraged to embrace these conversations as opportunities for growth and connection, reinforcing that addressing puberty openly can significantly reduce anxiety and foster resilience in children.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Becky Kennedy (00:00): “You need this. Zero from a place of panic, fear mongering. You need this. … Oh, I actually feel more empowered and confident.”

• Dr. Cheryl Ziegler (07:11): “Since the 1980s, the stat is every decade, three months younger.”

• Dr. Cheryl Ziegler (08:10): “You’re the tallest in the class, you’re the one to get muscles first.”

• Dr. Cheryl Ziegler (13:15): “We have to model it for them too.”

• Dr. Cheryl Ziegler (34:15): “You do not need to be smooth. You are not. You can say to them… I might be a little bit weird. And I definitely don't know all the answers.”

• Dr. Becky Kennedy (37:37): “This conversation has felt like a warm hug to me.”

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Key Takeaways:

1. Early Onset of Puberty: Children are experiencing puberty earlier than in past decades, roughly five years younger than 100 years ago, disrupting traditional childhood timelines.

2. Gender Differences: Early puberty affects girls and boys differently, with girls facing greater mental health risks and societal pressures, while boys may receive undue praise for their physical development.

3. Mental Health Concerns: The premature onset of puberty is linked to increased rates of depression, anxiety, and engagement in risky behaviors among adolescents.

4. Proactive Communication: Open and honest conversations between parents and children about puberty can alleviate fears, reduce anxiety, and foster a healthier transition through adolescence.

5. Handling Awkwardness: Parents should embrace and normalize the inherent awkwardness in these discussions, using strategies like role-playing, setting comfortable environments, and being honest about their own uncertainties.

6. Educational Resources: Dr. Ziegler's book, The Crucial Years, serves as a vital resource for parents seeking guidance on navigating early puberty with their children.

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For parents seeking to better understand and support their children through the challenges of early puberty, this episode offers invaluable insights and practical strategies to foster a supportive and informed family environment.

Transcript

[Dr. Becky]

Today's episode is a really good one. I am talking with Dr. Cheryl Ziegler, who is incredible about puberty. And if you're already thinking, oh, my kid's not getting to puberty, I think this is a conversation I know this is a conversation you are going to want to listen to much earlier than you might think. Not from a place of panic, fear mongering. You need this. Zero from a place of. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, I hadn't thought about that before. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I actually feel more empowered and confident. That's the feeling I know you're going to get today. That's the feeling I got. And so I am so excited for you to be here. I'm Dr. Becky. This is good inside. We'll be back right after this. As parents, the mental load is real. To do lists, doctor's appointments, sports practices, work events, birthday parties. Should I keep going? If your family is anything like mine, it can feel like there are a thousand things to remember and your brain is running on overdrive. Well, what if I told you there's a way to bring a little more calm and clarity to your chaotic, always changing family schedule? Meet Skylight Calendar. It's a central, easy to see touchscreen with clear colors so everyone in your family can stay in the loop. As someone obsessed with efficiency, it almost feels like magic how seamlessly it syncs with all the other calendars you're already using. Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook, and more. I truly see this tool as your partner in sharing the mental load with your kids. End partner because there's no more mom, when's my soccer game? Or wait, what time do I need to pick the kids up? And because life doesn't stop when you leave the house, Skylight offers a free companion app. You can add or update events, check off the to do lists, and stay in sync with your family no matter where you are. Oh, and another great feature. If you're not completely thrilled within 120 days, you can return it for a full refund. Ready to say goodbye to calendar chaos and hello to a more organized and connected family life. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars. Just go to skylightcal.com Becky that's S-K-Y L I G H T C A L.com Becky for $30 off. This offer expires December 31st of this year.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Hi Cheryl. Hi, how are ya?

[Dr. Becky]

I am so excited to talk with you and for so many different reasons, but one of the reasons I truly wanna dive into puberty and talking about puberty with kids is number one. I have a 13 and a 10 year old. Like, holy moly. Puberty. Yep. And I don't think I've really ever said this out loud before. It just hasn't really come up. Like my own puberty journey, I think truly was atypical in that I went through whatever version of puberty. It was very, very late. You and I are still looking for the height component. That one never really hit either of us, the, the growth spur, you know, but like I didn't get my period naturally. Like I have and I can talk about that. It probably won't be the focus of on our conversation, but the reason I'm starting with it is because like, even for my daughter, like, it's not even like I have had my own lived experience of being in these age ranges and like having kind of do the very natural thing it's supposed to do. And so in addition to wanting to always talk about the topics people don't like to get specific about, I just like always have a love for those topics and this is one of them. Like, I really know that my journey was outside the norm. Right. And so I want to be so much more equipped. And so that's what we're going to talk about today if we all start with, well, what was my puberty experience? Was I on the earlier side? Was I on the later side? What worries did I have? Even what I said to you, it's like the bigger gap probably between whatever our kid is going through and we go through. Like if you have a kid who's on the earlier, even normal side and you are on the normal later side, like that's going to feel like a very intense thing for you. Like, oh, why is this starting? Right. Or if your kid is late and you are early or mid, like we all have that baseline and just starting with that is so important.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

It's so important. And I think it's important for parents to know. Like you're saying what is normal today? Yeah, right. Do you know it? Eight years old for a girl is on the earlier side of average. Though if you have an 8 year old, that is not a reason to necessarily go see an endocrinologist.

[Dr. Becky]

Like if I have an 8 year old who I'm like, I feel like my 8 year old has breast buds or my 8 year old has pubic hair, let's just name it. Like, are you saying that's early, early normal these days?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Early normal early, you can go to the pediatrician because you probably will, because it'll. That, you know, that's like second grade. That's second or third grade.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And so parents are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? I've had parents even say to me, I see their 8 or 9 year old sitting in my office with clear, you know, small breast buds and they say, oh, no, no, there's nothing going on there. And I'm thinking, wait, really? And this, this is not a one off. This happens often where they'll say, no, no, no, like none of that's going on. And I'm thinking, but I'm looking at her, I can visually see it.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So whether it's a block, because we're uncomfortable with that, we don't want to acknowledge it. I think that there are parents and just to even that out, boys. It's nine. So a nine year old boy. But the thing is, a nine year old boy, his first sign of puberty is going to be an enlarged scrotum and his penis grows. And by 9 and 10, you don't, you're not usually giving them baths anymore. You're not seeing it.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So they're going through even potentially those physical changes and parents aren't seeing them. They don't notice it in a boy until he starts smelling or his voice starts cracking or he starts, you know, kind of growing bigger. And by then he's been in puberty, honestly, probably by then, could be two years, even three if you think of it as puberty starting in the brain.

[Dr. Becky]

Right.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So it's like when you think of it this way and what's happening, childhood, actual childhood, from like toddler to childhood, is getting shorter and shorter, which there's some real sadness, even some grief there for some people.

[Dr. Becky]

And so just I want to mirror a couple things back to see if I got it right. Number one, just. Are you saying puberty is starting earlier than it did decades ago?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yes. Yes. So in the let's start 100 years ago. A hundred years ago, it's five. It was five years older. So we're five years younger than a hundred years ago. Think about Freud, what he called this stage, he called it latency.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Nothing's going on.

[Dr. Becky]

Everything's relaxed, everything's latent.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah, it's latent. Take a breath and it's like, oh, I'm so sorry to tell you, but you have like two years to take a breath and then it's starting. So.

[Dr. Becky]

So parenting is harder than it was A hundred years ago.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

We don't have the latent period. Yes. There's no, like maybe when they're six and seven, maybe.

[Dr. Becky]

Right.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

But like the other thing. So since the 1980s, the stat is every decade, three months younger.

[Dr. Becky]

Wow.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Per decade.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And it's continuing to trend that way. And the pandemic is what made this for me go beyond just, oh, this is a class that I really love giving to. Actually this is part of a mental health crisis. Yes. And this is something I don't think that I can just keep to myself. This has to get bigger because endocrinologists, just like psychologists were saying, obviously there's a huge mental health crisis. Endocrinologists were reporting there's all of these young kids coming into my office who have breast buds and who are in puberty. Why is this happening?

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So it really all kind of came together about four or five years ago.

[Dr. Becky]

Wow. And so puberty is starting earlier. That's a fact. Girls 8, early normal in 2025, boys 9. And at the same time, the 8 and 9 year old by gender 1 is going to be a lot more visible. Which makes me think, might parents worry more. Oh my God, my girl's starting puberty so early. Even more their sons.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yes. And the data says that it is more worrisome for girls. The list of potential negative outcomes or things that put them at greater risk is actually horrifying. It really is. Increased depression, increased anxiety, increased sexualization, earlier sexual activity or high risk behavior, substance use, cancer. I mean, it's a long list. I've narrowed it down, I've consolidated it to like 10 factors. Whereas boys, and this is really worth thinking about, they get praised for earlier puberty. You're the tallest in the class, you're the one to get muscles first. You're probably going to be the fastest. So you're taller, faster, stronger. In our society that's praised, we look at that. You see a girl who's nine or ten and she's developed, we start sexualizing her really early.

[Dr. Becky]

The things we need to be aware of for early puberty for girls versus boys. Right. But, and, and what you said really resonated and how boys, it's kind of these traits that we praise for girls that can be hypersexualization at a young age. But I think there's another layer which is that we don't often talk about puberty. Right. Like, I often think, what would it be like? Like, can you, I don't know if you thought about this way. Imagine nobody telling you any part of what pregnancy would be like. Like, can you imagine, like, literally, like, what's happening to my belly? Like, if. If nobody told you your. This whole part of your body was going to get very large, your breasts were gonna change. I mean, obviously anything about the arc of pregnancy, can you imagine how much worse than it already is? Kind of prenatal and postpartum depression would be, right?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Look, I just got. I just got the chills thinking about it, right? Like, I've never thought of that analogy, but that is so true.

[Dr. Becky]

And that's what we do, right? That's basically what we do. Right? And now that I'm in it with two of my kids, like, having your body physically change, it feels like this deep existential crisis. Like, am I me? Like, am I gonna survive this? What is. Literally, people are like, my kid likes to be in control. They won't let their sister go and, you know, play the board game first. Okay, well, then think about that child when puberty isn't explained to them and that child has breast buds, or suddenly they're like, my scrotum is bigger. Like, that is going to feel ridiculously out of control. And so when I think about the risk to girls, and I don't know, I've never considered this, and I don't know if you have, maybe we could just talk about it. Could any of the increased risks for early puberty for girls be doubled, quadrupled, really, by the fact that when you don't talk about it with girls, and given that for girls, it is so public and so obvious to everyone else that that could be part of the risk factor. Can we reduce some of the early puberty risk for girls through helping parents feel more equipped to deal with their awkwardness? Preview what's going to happen? Talk to their kids. Like, could that actually reduce the risk?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So that is like. That's like the spirit of this book. This book is like the roadmap to. Initially, right? In 2021, it was like, we have to do something about the teen mental health crisis. And I'm like, but what. What happens in the stage before? And it's like, exactly what you're saying. So for a girl, if she knew it's not just her education, which is absolutely needed, but this is where it starts. I have this little part in the book where I say, here's how to talk to people about not commenting on your daughter's body. And here's the scripts. Literally, here's what you say to grandma and grandpa. Here's what you Say to the coach. You know, you say to a coach something like, hey, you know, you know, whatever. Jane's gonna be coming to your practice today. You know, there's a good chance she might be the tallest girl that you're gonna see. I'd really appreciate it if you don't comment about her physical body. She is still a nine year old girl and the world already tells her over and over. And so there's these expectations on her. I just don't wanna put them on her. I mean when I practice it, it's easy for me. Cause I've practiced it, right? But if I just said to you, hey Becky, so the next time you go somewhere, just tell the coach, just tell em to stop commenting on your kid's body. Like you'd be like, right, how am I gonna say this? And it's like we, we have to model it for them too. Even if in the moment we walk in and grandma, grandpa say, well look at you, you're such a young lady. First of all, they know what that means. You're such a young lady means you're sexually developing. Right. And so you're such a young lady. Look at you in that dress. Right. If we say things like, you know what, this past week there was a spelling bee at school and they got second place or we just got, you know, our itinerary for this camp, then they're going to try diving off a diving board for the first time. You switch the conversation. They are a child. We're not commenting on our, on their bodies that they have no control over. We're going to talk about childlike things. I think that even could literally change because I say this is a societal issue. This is not for just parents. Oh, just parents alone are going to change how we talk about puberty. This is a bigger issue. It's a systemic kind of issue.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, yeah. So I think that's so powerful for parents because I think sometimes we often think like I have to say something back to that person. And maybe we do, but maybe we don't. Maybe it's actually just about shifting the focus. Right. I think our kids, like, our kids notice what we value and how we think about them. Not by what we say, but by the questions we ask, by the conversations at dinner. Right. And so even shifting to oh, ask Jane about, you know, her piano recital is, you know, going to have a profound impact. And whether or not you tell off your in law on the moment, like that's up to you. Like based on your, your, you know, whatever feels Right.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

I mean, you're exactly right. Like, you don't have to be confrontational if you're proactive. Like, you can be really, really proactive and say like, hey, you guys are coming over. You know, Jane's 10 or Jane's 9. She's growing a lot. Like, we're just, we're not focusing on that though. There's so many amazing cool things she's trying right now. Let's just focus on that. That could be proactive. That doesn't sound, I think, super confrontational or just in the moment. People are going to throw you off for a loop. They're just going to, they're going to say something, you know, and just parents having it in the backseat, like, you know, their back pocket, like, yeah, this is what I'm going to say in response becomes easier. And then dad is comfortable with it. And then all of a sudden, you know, ant is comfortable with and everybody gets on board. But it does probably have to start with a parent or like the primary caregiver being aware to do it.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah. And so there's how we respond to other people talking about it. And then I guess I think the thing I want us to dig in a little bit more. I have some thoughts about it too, is just how we talk to our kids about it separate from, you know, the coach or the in laws who might say inappropriate things. Let's jump off with this. What's scarier to a kid? Puberty itself or not feeling prepared for puberty?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah, I love that you asked it just like that because I just did a segment yesterday about talking to kids about hate crimes and prejudice. And one of the things I said was it is scarier for kids to not know. Right. Rather than to know you. It's anticipatory anxiety I talk about in the book. The anticipation of is oftentimes worse than, hey, this is what it's going to be like. And I always say to the kids, like I say to the girls, I just say, I only do it with girls so far. I'm going to develop a boys class, but not yet. So I say to the girls, you guys, nature's so amazing. And this is how I talk, by the way. Like the way you're going to hear my voice change. Like, you guys, nature is so amazing. It gives us like two, three years to go through this. Can you imagine? It's like it's low and slow and sometimes there might be like little, we call them spurts, but like they're short. And then it just goes back Again, to low and slow. And before you know, you guys are 15 and 16, and you're all. All caught up with each other. That's my tone. That's, like, my casualness around it so that they don't think I know. Some people will joke, like, my kid went to sleep, and they woke up six inches taller. That didn't literally happen, but I totally get what they mean. It's probably more like, your kid went to sleep day one of summer, and by first day of school the next year, yeah, they might have grown three or four inches. That's true. It feels dramatic, but it's not literally right? So the way that we talk about it and. And it's like what you started with. We have triggers. We have. And this is not just women. We have women. We have men. Whether it's their menstrual cycle, whether it's, you know, just their brain, their moods. Why was I yelling at you? Why did I tell you I hated you? Oh, my gosh. You're, like, my favorite person ever. Why don't I want to be best friends? Why don't I want to play with dolls anymore? When I say that one in my classes, there will always be, I'd say, like, a couple girls, one to three girls that will cry, and they'll be like, but I want to keep playing with dolls. And it's, like, heartbreaking because they know. They feel like the day puberty's obvious or I get my period, I got to put the toys away. And it's like that for a parent, too, to say, no, you don't. But you know what? Your brain, it's got all these hormones flooding in it. And so that's why one day you might feel like throwing those dolls away, and the next day, you feel like you secretly want to take them out and play with them. And they need to know the brain part too.

[Dr. Becky]

That's exactly right. And to flesh out that arc, because I think probably it's like, one day, it's like, I don't wanna play with these dolls anymore. Dolls are stupid. I throw them away. The next day, I yell at my mom for throwing away my dolls. That's probably what's gonna happen, right? And the mom just has to be like, oh, you wish you had them. Like, don't be right. Don't. You threw them away. I've done that too many times. It just doesn't tend to end up in a good place. But that's what it is. I feel like that's so much of puberty. I Don't want my dolls anymore. I act on it the next day. I wish I had them. I can't tolerate that feeling. I act it out. I. I look at my mom. I blame my mom for doing it, even though obviously she didn't even know I threw out my dolls in the first place. Right? And all of this in kind of 24 hours. And the other. The other thing that I think really guides so much of my good decisions as a parent, never my bad decisions, is that kind of information doesn't scare kids. It never scares kids when it's delivered from a trusted, loving adult. But noticing changes without having information terrifies kids and adults. So you could think about this in an environment unrelated to puberty. You hear, uncle whoever, cancer, chemotherapy, a few weeks to live, and everyone's like, oh, he's fine. You're like, well, I noticed those things, and I don't have a story to understand it that's scary and unformulated and just free floats as anxiety. And I think about that example and talk about it with parents all the time. But then what if instead of the changes being random snippets from a conversation about your uncle, it's the body you live in having changes you didn't expect? I mean, it's literally more visceral. This is the thing we are in every day is our body. And so, yes, I think, you know, it's interesting. Women wise, right? Puberty, pregnancy, menopause, we have more stages than that, perimenopause on these ends, the puberty and the perimenopause. We're maybe having our day of like, let's explain these to people. Like, having these things just happen to you. Right? We have work to do in pregnancy too, but at least we tell women that their body will change. Like, no one today is like, what is happening to my, you know, belly button. And so, yes, talking to kids. And I know maybe we can transition to this. Talking to kids matters. Helping kids anticipate it. And knowing this, it almost preloads them with, oh, at least I knew this was gonna happen. Like, what human doesn't like that?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Oh, yeah. Can you, like, I don't know if it. If, like, as you're listening, think of a time maybe you did tell your kid something. Or the kid that comes over that's like, this kid is so savvy. They know, like, all these things going on, right?

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And they're just like, oh, yeah, I already know that.

[Dr. Becky]

Yep, yep.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And they. And they literally remember, this is industry versus inferiority. 6 to 12. This is like, they want to be good at st stuff. They want to learn stuff. So if you go, oh, yeah, and by the way, this happens and that happens. And, like, you have these mood swings or your body changes this way. They will walk around, like, head held high. I know what's happening. They'll. They'll be proud.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And that's the thing. It's like the destigmatizing.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Of puberty, of talking about things that are awkward or uncomfortable. Like, I want to eventually get through that. Where this isn't an awkward conversation. This is like perimenopause and menopause are having their moments. It's like, that's amazing. Now we know. I feel more empowered. I know what to do. I know what kind of doctor to go to.

[Dr. Becky]

I know I don't feel crazy. I don't feel crazy.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

I don't feel crazy. This is normal. This is normal. Oh, wait, other marriages go through this. Oh, wait, other friendships go through this during this time. Like, if we don't talk about it, and we had this probably for hundreds of years, but at least for the last hundred years, where women weren't talking about what was happening to them. They were suffering in silence. Yeah. And these kids maybe aren't, quote, suffering in silence, but they're certainly. They're going through things. They're scared in silence. And then what do they do? Because they're kids and they're curious. They go online. Yep. They're going to find the answer the way we did. We went to older brothers and sisters.

[Dr. Becky]

Totally.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

They're going to go online, and it's pretty easy to get in there and just ask the most embarrassing question.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes. And I think, you know, we want our kids to be curious about their bodies. Like, you can't ever get mastery over anything you're not curious about. So, like, before you get mastery over something, you have to have curiosity. So curiosity is a good thing, and curiosity is really powerful. Like, once curiosity about anything is there, it's going to move its way into knowledge and figuring it out. And one way, if we don't talk to our kids, is the random kid on the bus or the Internet. I think the other way, and this goes back to the data, is behavior. It's just you act. We act out what we don't have language for. Literally, that's what. Again, if, like, I was, I don't know, in a foreign country, any country that speaks any other language but English, and nobody understood me, do you know what I would do to communicate with Them I would act it out because I don't have verbal language. And so I think there's this fear from parents. And I'm curious how you think about this. Like, I don't want to share. And I asked some questions to our goodneside community and they shared some of their fears or their barriers. And one big concern is I don't want to share too much too soon. Or if my kid asks me about one thing. Like, for example, I have a good story about this. My kid asked me about a 69, but they don't even know what oral sex is yet. So how do I speak about this? And I think there's this fear that if I share information, kind of my kid is going to act out more. But I do find this idea of when we have language for things, we all tend to act out less.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah, I mean, my wheels are turning as you're talking. Like, I. The first time that notion really, really came to me was when we started seeing suicide rates go younger and younger. And all of a sudden we have 10 to 14 year old actual category. And that was the time where I would hear from parents, like, no way. I would never talk to my kids about this. I'm not gonna give them ideas. And I really do understand that fear. Like, oh, I mean, this is not something anybody wants to talk about. However, the data consistently shows the more we talk about it, the more we give them language, the more permission we have to say, like, yeah, there's some really hard days. And you know what? Life is kind of like this ride. Do you know that, like, one day you can feel up and the next day you can feel down. And we then all of a sudden we open up the space. It doesn't give them ideas, it gives them psychological safety to say, hey, guess what? This is one of those days where I just feel like, what is the point of life?

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And then you've talked about it already, so you're not gonna be reactive as the parent. And this could be about any topic. Right. And you just kind of go like, all right, I'm gonna meet you right where we created the space, right where you're at right now. And this is gonna be safe for us. If you don't have these conversations, they will be happening elsewhere and it won't be you. And I like to say, like, up until about 11 or 12, you are the single. You, the parent, are the single most influential, most important person in that kid's life. And 13, 14 comes and it's their friends.

[Dr. Becky]

Yep.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And they're looking for their identity. So if they don't have that with you, the parent, now, we don't know where they're going to go, but their curiosity is going to be there.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes. I've been working on something behind the scenes, something I have personally pushed for because I believe in it so deeply. And I'm so excited that today is the day I get to tell you the news. Your good inside membership might be eligible for HSAFSA reimbursement. This is huge. This is proof of what, honestly, we've known all along, but now we can state more clearly that parenting support is not a luxury. It's not extra fluff. It is actually the foundation of family health. So if good inside membership is something you've been curious about, a little interested in, it just hasn't come to the top of your list. First of all, that's okay. No guilt, no shame. It's not too late. In fact, it literally might be the perfect time to go so much deeper into the healing, growth and repair that we talk about on this podcast. To learn more about how to get your membership reimbursed, check out the link in our show notes or just go to goodinside.com and check out where we talk about HSAFSA reimbursement. I am seriously so excited for you to jump in. Okay, so let's talk about awkwardness. So most parents, right? So I did a poll on Instagram, so I'm gonna read some of these stats to you. Did you have an adult talk to you about puberty?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Okay, no.

[Dr. Becky]

Right. So easy. 17 said yes, a lot of things. 41% said some things, but not others. 42% definitely not. Are you crazy? That's what. Okay, okay. And then what is your comfort level talking about puberty with your kids? 7%. Ah, I'm terrified. 15%, pretty uncomfortable. 44%. This is the biggest comfortable with some things, but definitely not others. And then the rest felt comfortable. So let's talk about that 67%. Because to me, even if you're comfortable, but definitely if you're in the 67%, vast majority awkwardness is coming along for the journey of talking to your kid. Like, it's kind of like when someone's like, I want to be really motivated to get out of bed in the morning and then I'm going to go to the gym. Like, if that's me, I'm like, well, that day is not coming. Like, I never wake up being like, I cannot wait to go to the gym. Best decision ever. I gotta get there with the lack of motivation. So I think for parents, this idea of, like, how do I overcome the awkwardness and then talk to my kid? Like, I believe. I don't know. If you do like the awkwardness, especially if you are someone where someone never talked to you, it's a sign that you have literally never had someone in the entire lineage of your family put language to this. So awkwardness, you know, is kind of the sign of newness. So how do you. You. You work with so many families around this. Like, when a family. When a parent says, like, I just feel too awkward or I'm gonna be awkward or I'm gonna get it wrong or I'm going to fumble, which I think everyone listening to this is like, oh, yeah, I. Dr. Ziegler's answer to this. How do we deal with that?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah. Well, the first thing I want to say is, no parent goes into this saying, oh, I'm going to skip an entire developmental stage and not tell my kid all this important stuff. No parent. Right. Every parent is like, I want to do the best that I can do. And, you know, I know the best you can do is usually as far as you've come. Right. You can only take a kid as far as you've gone. Like, if you're not willing to say, like, I tell in the book that my own son, who was 11 at the time, was in fifth grade, he comes home from his sex ed talk, and I'm thinking, like, I'm sure I've covered. Like, I feel like I've covered most bases, but I probably didn't cover everything. So he walks in, confident, and it wasn't, quote, awkward. Right. And I'm like, how was it today? And he was like, that was fine. And I go, did you learn anything that we haven't talked about? And he's like, yeah. Now he says that confidently. He's like, yeah. And I'm like, cannot wait to know. He's like, you didn't tell me that I could wake up in the morning with wet stuff in my pants.

[Dr. Becky]

Yep.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Didn't. I didn't. Didn't talk to him about wet dreams.

[Dr. Becky]

Classic wet dream conversation.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah. I mean, so for the percentage of people on your little poll that said, yes, I'm confident, are they talking about masturbation, pornography, wet dreams, ejaculation? Like, there's this. There's a lot of levels. Yeah. Like, there's one thing to say, hey, bud, you're going to grow taller and get a deeper voice and it might crack. And, like, you're gonna. Muscles are gonna get bigger and then to continue to progress. Oh, you're gonna maybe start liking people in a different way than you have before. Okay, that gets a little harder. I've done this many times with thousands of kids, so I know, like, I know where, like, the entry point is, like, pretty comfortable in the room. And then I know when people start fidgeting. So I forgot what your original question even is. But, like, I'm sucked into the world of thinking about it.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah, no, it's great. So a parent's listening to this and is saying, okay, I hear this and I do want to talk to my son. Let's say that about the fact that he is probably gonna have a wet dream or he might or what that is. Right? Or let's say I wanna talk to my daughter about masturbation. Right? Any of these kind of. We're now level three. We're past level one and two and they say to you or me, like, I feel awkward or I'm going to be awkward. I am telling you, be awkward. How do you, how do you help, like, how do we help people through that?

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Yeah, I think, I think you think about your style, right? What works for you? And I like, let's just pretend I like to role play. Let's do it. You asked me, literally, you. I would say, okay, so what's your style with your kid? Like, do you think a book is going to be good? Do you think you want to watch a movie? Do you want to let them know, like, that you want to have some talk, or do you want to just kind of casually bring it up? First, give me the setting, like, tell me your style, right? And then I don't know, like, tell me truthfully, what would be your style?

[Dr. Becky]

Well, I, I feel like I have a lot of very. I feel actually fairly comfortable talking to my kids after I've done some work with my own puberty and just feeling like I find this stuff so empowering.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Are you an experience share then? Is that like the way you come?

[Dr. Becky]

Sometimes I feel like some of my best conversations about these types of topics are like, while, like, while we take a walk while we're in the car. Like, not the, like, hey, I'm going to sit across from you and look at you in the eyes and talk about masturbation. Like, I don't think anyone. I don't. That's not, you know, so, like kind of a. Kind of. There's a third. There. There's something else that's happening.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

So, like, then I would be like, okay, great. So let's make sure that that's the setting. Okay, check. And then I would say to them, say the word or the topic out loud. And, like, most people will start to laugh. And I cool. Get it out right now. Like, just get it out. Yeah, That'll lead to. They'll say to me, they'll say, don't bury the lead. Right?

[Dr. Becky]

Just like, put it out there.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Just put it out there. Like, come on, let's do it. So it gets your own comfortable. And then they start laughing and they're like. And they're like, I've never said these words to my kid before. I'm like, okay, great. Get it out with me. And then what I say to them is, do you know you. A, you don't have to have the answers to every question. B, you do not need to be smooth. You are not. You can say to them, yeah, on a walk, in your case, like, you know, I know we were watching. I always like a little bit of a context. We were watching that movie last night. Remember that kid they started sending? And then he was 15 when he was done, there were all these changes in him. You know, like one of the things that can happen.

[Dr. Becky]

I don't know.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Do the kids talk at school at all about, like, things like masturbation or whatever? And you might get initial, like, mom. And you're like, I know it's uncomfortable. It's a little bit uncomfortable for me too. But you know what? I love you so much that I'm willing to have this uncomfortable conversation.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And if I can be brave. You can be brave.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Now you're at their level. Like, you know, I'm not gonna say, like, I'm beyond awkward and I can't deal, then I shouldn't be having it, but I'm a little bit uncomfortable. Say it to your kid.

[Dr. Becky]

And. And you're. There's something I love that you're doing there. You're all kind of like, we're in this together. Like, it's not like I am like, person up here giving you some lecture, and you're feeling awkward. So I love that. And I'm curious what you think about this, because one of the things I tell parents a lot, because talking to parents about how to talk to their kids. Yeah. About sex, about pleasure. I love these topics, too. And I find just saying to your kid in the start, look, I might be awkward while I talk about this, but let me tell you why from the start, it's not because talking about it is wrong. It's not because your interest is wrong. It's not because a question you ask me is wrong. Truly, like, no one talked to me about this, and I'm kind of the first person in the family to talk about this. And so new things tend to feel awkward. So that's why. And. And then because I do feel like sometimes unintentionally, kids can code our awkwardness as wrong. Like, not that we're wrong, but that the topic is bad and shameful. When I think always awkwardness means new, it could be wrong, but it's definitely just always new. So I feel like again, preloading that to a kid, it helps kind of again, it helps contextualize your awkwardness if that happens.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

I love, love, love that so much. And I also love, like, I find this line, I've started to use it more and I'm like, oh, this is very effective in my own parenting. Just to say, you know, I've never had a 12 year old boy before. Like, you're my first 12 year old boy. Or I've never had. Or I've never had this conversation. And so, like, almost asking them for some grace before we even start, Like, I might be a little bit weird. And I definitely don't know all the answers. Like, I want you to ask me all your questions and I promise I'll get them, but I'm also not just gonna make up answers.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

And that if you set the tone from the beginning, all of a sudden I'm already calmer. Because you're already presuming you are not the expert. You don't know everything, but like, hey, let's do this together. And it's like everybody's stress comes down because they are gonna ask you something you are not gonna know the answer to, or you're not positive.

[Dr. Becky]

Yeah. Or I find a line that I've used a lot. Sometimes it's true. And sometimes, like, I just need a. I just need a moment, you know, is. That's a great question and it deserves a great answer. I'm gonna come back to you. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, I didn't know my daughter was gonna come off the bus and ask me these questions, like, in public, in our, you know, our lobby. And so sometimes I've used that when I'm literally. And it could be something about history or it could be something about the body. And sometimes I think I know the answer. I'm just not prepared to say it in that moment. Yes. And either way, that proved to be useful. I love that.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

That's a great question that deserves a great answer. And I probably only have, like, a mediocre answer for you right now. It's like, give me like, an hour or give me till tomorrow. I love that.

[Dr. Becky]

Give me a quick text with a tick text with my mom friends. Totally.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

I need five minutes. Let me chat you be to you.

[Dr. Becky]

Let me.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Let me figure this out.

[Dr. Becky]

The mirror. I can do this. I can feel awkward. I hear Cheryl and Becky's words, and.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

We can do this. Yeah, I love that. I hope people listening are like that relief, because I think there's pressure on parents that we have to know everything and we have to know the perfect thing to say. Like, by the way, the greatest thing to say maybe to one of my kids isn't the greatest thing for yours or vice versa, right? Like, you just don't. You gotta try this stuff out. And by the way, if someone. I know someone listening right now is like, okay, I tried this, and it went horribly wrong. I already, like, what can I do? And I'm always like, you repair it. Hey, you know the other day when we talked about that thing, like, I did not even know what I was talking about or I got so uncomfortable. I didn't even see that coming. I've thought about it. You deserve more. Can I go back? Can I redo that? Oh, beautiful. That is so humbling. And kids, there. There's just. There's a time where, yes, you are the authority. You're the one in charge, but there's also a time, especially when you're bonding and attaching to your kid during such a critical time, to just be like, I am learning right alongside with you. This is amazing for me. And they might be like, well, it doesn't feel so amazing for me. I know. I can imagine that. But it's kind of really cool for me. And let them see your excitement and also let them see your celebration. Your body is doing amazing things that deserve celebrating. How cool is this? You know, just the energy and the excitement around your body's doing what it's supposed to do. It's like when you're growing a baby and someone's like, look at you, right? Your belly's growing and all these things. And you might at the moment be like, well, it doesn't feel so great. My feet are swollen. I'm nauseous. I've thrown up. But your body is doing what it's supposed to do. That's a beautiful thing. Like, it's just such a. It's like a It's like a hug. It's like a warm hug. Like, it just feels comforting.

[Dr. Becky]

Well, this conversation has felt like a warm hug to me. I know it will feel like a warm hug to everyone listening. And I think you and I have such a similar pep talk to people. Like, you're amazing for listening to this. It clearly says you're the type of parent who wants to have conversations that probably weren't had with you. That's the best it gets in terms of what happens next. It's going to be awkwardness. It's going to be a repair. It's going to be. Oh, remember when I said that was a disgusting question? That was a me thing. Let me explain that. Let me try again.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Or an inappropriate question. Right. For some people, this would have been forbidden.

[Dr. Becky]

Yes.

[Dr. Cheryl Ziegler]

Right. If you said, kind of gave your kid the message, like, we don't talk about that. Or like, and now you're thinking about it, you're like, why'd I do that?

[Dr. Becky]

Just go back 100% and look, this is as good inside as it gets. Is there's nothing more powerful than repair. You want to have a good moment with your kid. Mess up, check. We've all done that. And then repair. That's going to be the best moment of your day. And so this follows that guideline, too. So thank you. You are incredible. I hope this is the first of many conversations we have. I think I speak for everyone listening also in knowing that they just want more of you. So thank you for all of your important work and for just the way you share. So relatable, so usable, so, so deeply human, and I'm really grateful. I was about to say that I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I have a feeling you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. And I want to make it really easy for you to do what I know you naturally want to do next, which is go get Cheryl's book. So this is the crucial years. It is just something that should be a staple in your home and is so, so valuable. So here's the crucial years. And as always, if you liked this podcast episode, the podcast in general, please rate and review it. I read every single thing you write, and it actually really contributes to what I do next. Your voice really matters here. I'm so grateful to you. Thank you to our sponsors, Airbnb and Skylight, for sponsoring this episode.