How IFS is Healing Trauma & Changing Lives (Maybe Yours?) | Tamala Floyd, LCSW

Summary

---

Good Life Project: "How IFS is Healing Trauma & Changing Lives (Maybe Yours?)"

Guest: Tamila Floyd, LCSW
Host: Jonathan Fields
Release Date: August 18, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this illuminating episode, Jonathan Fields sits down with Tamila Floyd, a leading Internal Family Systems (IFS) trainer and psychotherapist with over 25 years in the field, to explore the transformative power of "parts work." Together, they unpack how IFS not only normalizes but leverages the different "parts" within each of us to foster healing from trauma—both personal and generational. The conversation is deeply personal, rooted in Tamila’s own journey, and practical, offering listeners fresh tools to reframe their inner dialogues and start unburdening old wounds.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundation of Internal Family Systems (IFS)

• What are “Parts”?
  • We contain multitudes: IFS works from the assumption that the human psyche is a system of subpersonalities or "parts." These include the anxious, the critic, the pleaser, and so on.
  • Tamila Floyd: "The psyche is comprised of subpersonalities. In IFS, we call these parts." (05:00)
• Self versus Parts:
  • At the core is the “Self”—the unchanging, intuitive, healed essence within everyone, distinct from our parts.
  • Tamila Floyd: "The self is me, who has never been harmed by what has happened to me... it’s the intuitive, healed, and whole part." (06:36)

2. Building Relationship with Our Parts

• Recognizing & Mapping Parts:
  • Identify and externalize parts (e.g., through drawing, assigning physical sensations, or using toy figures) to create a safe, curious relationship with them, rather than seeking to suppress or eliminate them.
  • Tamila Floyd: "I’ll have clients do what we call mapping. Even just drawing a representation of that part on a page starts building a relationship." (09:02)
• Why Distinction Matters:
  • Each part has a distinct personality, motivations, and history within us; they aren’t simply random passing thoughts.
  • Tamila Floyd: "There is clearly a distinction and a personality and a way of seeing the world that is different between my critical part and my people pleasing part." (11:08)

3. The Origins and Roles of Parts

• Protectors and Exiles:
  • Protectors (managers and firefighters) keep us from feeling pain or vulnerability by managing behavior or dousing discomfort, respectively.
  • Exiles are the vulnerable, wounded parts that have been pushed away or hidden after being hurt.
  • Tamila Floyd: "Protectors are protecting what we call in IFS our exiles, and those are our vulnerable parts." (29:11)
• Parts Are Innate – Not Created by Trauma:
  • Everyone is born with parts; trauma and life experience only shift them into more extreme roles.
  • Tamila Floyd: "We are born with our parts, and our parts have distinct roles within our system at birth..." (21:14)

4. The Development and Adaptation of Parts

• From Innocence to Adaptation:
  • Parts such as the “people pleaser” begin as natural, playful, or connective parts but adapt to traumatic, stressful, or invalidating environments.
  • Tamila shares: Her own “people pleaser” began as "happy, connecting, lovable, playful…" before adapting into people-pleasing to avoid rejection. (23:21)
• Extreme Roles, Not Dysfunction:
  • IFS is non-pathologizing: Even extreme or seemingly dysfunctional behaviors are viewed as adaptive—attempts at protection, not flaws.
  • Tamila Floyd: "It’s all of the parts’ roles, no matter how extreme. When we understand how and why they took on the roles... it makes perfect sense." (25:51)

5. IFS and Healing Trauma: The Unburdening Process

• Why Suppressing Parts Doesn’t Work:
  • Attempting to silence or extinguish a part only increases its pressure, like "holding a ball under water in a pool, eventually it's going to pop up." (44:53)
• Effective Healing Involves:
  • Developing a compassionate relationship with protector parts.
  • Gaining permission to access and heal exiled parts—the core wounds.
  • Allowing exiled parts to “unburden” the limiting beliefs and emotional pain they carry.
  • Tamila Floyd: "Those protectors are not going to give up their jobs until we heal the one they protect." (44:53)
• Somatic Awareness:
  • Trauma and parts' burdens often localize in specific body parts—healing involves releasing these from their somatic “homes.”
  • Tamila Floyd: "Parts do too. There are parts that might show up in our head or in our gut or in our throat... when we get to the point of unburdening, we really want the client to be able to release that part from wherever it shows up in the body." (67:32)

6. The Role of “Self” in Healing

• Self-Energy:
  • The Self embodies qualities such as curiosity, calm, clarity, compassion, courage, confidence, creativity, and connection ("the 8 Cs"), and when leading, can heal wounded parts.
  • Tamila Floyd: "Who’s being in relationship with the client’s part is the client's Self. Those qualities... that's coming from the client's Self to the part." (63:50)
• Restoring Relationship:
  • As healing or “unburdening” occurs, the exiled part is reintegrated; its protective parts no longer need to be on guard and can assume new, healthier roles.
  • Tamila Floyd: "It lets the protector know this part doesn’t need protecting anymore… now you get to take on a new role in the system." (62:54)

7. The Ongoing Journey

• Not One-and-Done:
  • Parts work is a lifelong practice; new parts may emerge, and ongoing relationship-building is essential.
  • Tamila Floyd: "How many parts do I have? I don’t know. But it’s a good thing—they’re trusting you to be there for them when they come up for healing." (73:43)
• Reframing the Multiplicity:
  • The multitude of parts can be seen as a strength—a built-in inner community and resource for resilience.
  • Jonathan Fields: "How incredible that I have so many parts that can become unburdened and become beautiful allies..." (74:11)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Self:
  "The self is me, who has never been harmed by what has happened to me… it's the intuitive, healed, and whole part." — Tamila Floyd (06:36)

• On Non-Pathologizing Parts:
  "It makes perfect sense why they're doing what they're doing… my people pleaser wanted to feel love." — Tamila Floyd (25:51)

• On Unburdening:
  "Those protectors are not going to give up their jobs… until we heal the one they protect." — Tamila Floyd (44:53)

• Host’s Summary on Healing:
  "As long as that part stays exiled, there's gonna be an ache that never heals inside of us, no matter how brave or how fortified those protector parts get." — Jonathan Fields (48:25)

• On Embodiment:
  "Parts do too. There are parts that might show up in our head or in our gut or in our throat… we really want the client to be able to release that part from wherever it shows up in the body." — Tamila Floyd (67:32)

• On the Ongoing Process:
  "We want to continue to be in relationship with our parts however we can. And the more work we do… we may uncover other parts." — Tamila Floyd (72:54)

• What it Means to Live a Good Life:
  "To live a good life: Know that you are whole, well, healthy and wise." — Tamila Floyd (74:45)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:55 — Core Concepts: What are “Parts” and what is IFS?
• 06:36 — The idea of “Self” in IFS and its essential qualities
• 09:02 — Mapping and externalizing parts for healing
• 21:14 — We're born with parts; trauma shifts them into protective roles
• 29:11 — The roles of Protectors and Exiles
• 44:53 — Why suppression doesn’t work and the need to heal exiles
• 55:29 — Building relationship and beginning the “unburdening” process
• 62:54 — Integration and relief of exhausted protector parts
• 67:32 — Somatic components: trauma and parts in the body
• 72:54 — Multiplicity, ongoing work, and viewing parts as allies
• 74:45 — Tamila’s definition of a good life

---

Tone & Language

The conversation is warm, deeply compassionate, direct, and filled with personal storytelling. Tamila shares openly about her own journey with her “people pleaser” part, using simple but profound language to make complex psychological concepts accessible. Jonathan, as always, is both curious and gently challenging, translating dense therapeutic ideas into memorable, relatable metaphors.

---

Final Takeaway

IFS teaches us that healing is not about annihilating unwanted parts of ourselves, but gently recognizing, understanding, and unburdening them so that our wise, compassionate Self can lead. This method, as Tamila Floyd and Jonathan Fields beautifully demonstrate, is a lifelong, relational journey toward wholeness—a path open to all.

---

For listeners seeking a deep, practical introduction to IFS, trauma healing, and the promise of living a good life by embracing all their “parts," this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Jonathan Fields]

So what if those voices in your head, the ones that sometimes feel like they're battling with each other, weren't actually a problem to be fixed, but were rather a profound source of wisdom and healing? And what if the path to feeling whole didn't require silencing or killing them off, but rather learning to listen to them in a very particular way? These questions kind of stopped me in my tracks during a fascinating conversation that really transformed how I think about the relationship between our different inner parts and things like trauma, healing and wholeness. My guest today is Tamila Floyd, a psychotherapist and Internal Family Systems lead trainer with over 25 years of experience helping people understand and heal through parts work. She received her master's degree in social Work from the University of Southern California and has taught at both the University of Phoenix and usc. Her latest book, Listening When Parts Speak on, offers a revolutionary framework for healing personal and generational trauma. One of the things that fascinated me most was discovering how these different parts of ourselves actually show up in specific places in our bodies and how understanding this connection can lead to profound healing. Tamila shared her own powerful story of how her people pleasing part was actually protecting a younger version of herself who felt deeply rejected and how learning to build a relationship with this part, it just changed everything. The insights she shares about how our protective parts get exhausted from years of trying to keep us safe and what happens when we finally learn to unburden them are really powerful ideas. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is Good Life Project.

[Tamila Floyd]

Why choose a Sleep Number? Smart Bed Can I make my site softer? Can I make my site firmer?

[Jonathan Fields]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Tamila Floyd]

Sleep number does that up to eight.

[Jonathan Fields]

Times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side.

[Tamila Floyd]

Your Sleep Number setting It's the Sleep.

[Jonathan Fields]

Number Biggest sale of the year all beds on sale up to 50% off the limited edition smart bed plus free home delivery with the purchase of any smart bed ends Monday. All Sleep Number Smart beds offer temperature solutions for your best sleep. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today.

[Commercial Narrator]

This is Rose. Rose's flight is delayed again. At this point she has walked the entire terminal twice and has memorized every news headline on the airline airport tv. All she really wants to do is take off. Good thing Rose has a library of free ebooks with Prime. Suddenly she's chasing bad guys, kissing hot vampires, solving murders. You know, living her best life. Free Ebooks Library it's on prime if.

[Jonathan Fields]

You work as a Manufacturing facilities engineer.

[Tamila Floyd]

Installing a new piece of equipment can.

[Jonathan Fields]

Be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing.

[Tamila Floyd]

It'S your team's job to put it all together.

[Jonathan Fields]

That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side.

[Tamila Floyd]

With industrial grade products and next day.

[Jonathan Fields]

Delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything you need close at hand through every step of the installation. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done, you know. Really excited to dive in. I feel like we're having this conversation at a moment where heads are spinning, hearts are breaking, hearts are breaking open. There's just profound uncertainty in so many different ways, in so many places. And at the same time, I've been really increasingly fascinated with this whole world of parts or ifs, internal family systems. And I feel like it's kind of part of the zeitgeist these days. In coaching, in psychotherapy. It's like this emerging thing and this is something where you're in practice over 25 years at this point. You've taught, you've had clinical practice, you have just deep, deep wisdom about not just ifs, but also a specialty in healing, in women's trauma, in ancestral trauma, and bringing these worlds together. Which is so interesting, especially at this moment in time. Right. For you though, this isn't just a professional practice. This is personal.

[Tamila Floyd]

It is personal, most definitely. I see ifs as a way of organizing my life. How I show up in the world, how I interact with other people. All aware, maybe not always, but working towards being aware of how my parts get activated and also learning not to take how other people behave personally. Because I also have an understanding that sometimes they're operating from their parts too.

[Jonathan Fields]

So let's dive in, let's do a little bit of defining here. I think it would be helpful because a lot of people have probably heard these phrase parts or internal family systems, ifs were tossed around. Take me into what this actually is.

[Tamila Floyd]

So, yeah, so when we're talking about parts, it's a way of conceptualizing the mind. So instead of the psyche being one whole, we know that the psyche is comprised of subpersonalities. And in ifs we call these subpersonalities parts. So when you think about you are excited about something or you're feeling anxious or, or you're angry, what we would say is there's a part of you that's experiencing anger or anxiety. And the reason that we say apart is because one, it's not that way all the time. And you can be feeling angry and some excitement at the same time. So who's holding the anger? Who's holding the excitement? You also might also be experiencing someone inside criticizing you for getting angry. So those are our parts. So one can be angry, another can be criticizing you for being angry, and another can be excited about something that's coming up in your life, all being experienced simultaneously.

[Jonathan Fields]

So it's kind of like the real world version of that animated movie, Inside out, where you've got all the different people inside your head and they're all trying to sort of reach for the levers to pull to. When we talk about parts, one of my curiosities around this has also always been, okay, so I get the idea there's a part of me that gets anxious. There's a part of me that. And we'll talk about some of the specific parts that commonly show up. But more broadly, it's like the question that's always in my mind is, well, yes, but is there something bigger that's steering the ship?

[Tamila Floyd]

Yes, there really is. And that is who we are. And in ifs we call that the self. So when my parts, I love that you use the inside out and the pulling of the levers. Right. So when my parts are not in the seat of consciousness, pulling the levers, once they unblend and separate from me, what's there is myself, and the self is me, who has never been harmed by the things that have happened to me. It's the intuitive, the part of me that is healed and whole. So if all of our parts unblend, what's left is our self.

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay, so here's. I'm going to get a little meta early in the conversation. If we existed in a space where the parts weren't there, then what you're suggesting is there is still this other self which exists independent of them completely.

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely, yes. And often our parts. The reason that our parts are often coming into the seat of consciousness is because they either don't have awareness that self is available, or they don't trust self, or they have never been in relationship. Like they know it's there, but they don't have a relationship with self.

[Jonathan Fields]

Got it. Let's dive into some of the parts here and maybe more broadly also, and this is something that you posed fairly early in your new book is this notion of how do we actually meet our parts? Because I think we're all walking around and it feels like there's just a soup sometimes of warring voices in our head, sometimes of collaborating voices in our head. But I feel like a lot of us really don't understand how to connect with any of those, how to identify them, how to see them, how to meet them. I remember years ago interviewing Janine Roth. She created a Persona with what she called, I think it was like the mean ant in the attic or something like that. And she literally like completely anthropomorphized this voice into a being. You know, like what they looked like, what they dressed like, what they sounded like. And anytime there was a voice that came into her head that had this sort of like mean thing going on, attacking her, chastising her, it was this person inside of her that she had anthropomorphized inside of her that was doing the speaking. Is that the functional equivalent of identifying a part?

[Tamila Floyd]

It is. What that reminds me of is what we do. Often I'll have clients do what we call mapping. So there's this awareness of. And sometimes it's a voice, sometimes it's a feeling or a sensation or an emotion, however the part is expressing itself. I'll ask my client to draw that on the page, some representation of that part. So we'll have them, I'll have them connect with it. So if you're doing this by yourself, like, you know that there's a part that criticizes you, say, or another part that's a people pleaser, connect with that part. Bring that part into existence in your body, however it shows up, welcoming it there. Right. So if it shows up as tightness in your stomach, how will we represent that tightness in my stomach? On a sheet of paper? And it might just be a scribbly, you know, whatever, the knots of the stomach, Right. And then that critical part, how might we represent that one on the page? So just being able to see what those parts look like outside of you. Because the key to ifs and working with, with our parts is coming into relationship. So I love the example that you just gave and how she would represent and see what they look like. Right. This allows the separation between the part and self. Because now I have a representation of this part, a drawing of this part. Now self can come into relationship with it because in a sense, it's now outside of me. We've created that separation.

[Jonathan Fields]

So somebody's listening to this right now, or maybe watching it, and they're kind of feeling like, okay, so I get it. There's this mean part of me, and there's this really happy, go, lucky part of me, and there's this anxious part of me. But I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the notion that these are like separate beings within me, rather than just these are my own voices speaking to myself. How do we make the argument that these really exist as separate parts within us? And why is that actually important?

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah. So how we make the argument is through relationship. Once you get to know your parts, like, there is clearly a distinction and a personality and a way of seeing the world that is different between my critical part and my people pleasing part. So really how we learn that Jonathan is incoming into relationship with them, like these parts will let you know when they took on the role of becoming the people pleaser, Like I know exactly when in time and space, that part became the people pleaser because of what was happening in my childhood. I also know when the critical voice came, but only because I've developed a relationship with them. And they've told me, when we look.

[Jonathan Fields]

At the sweep of psychotherapy and even spiritual guidance, whether you're going to a pastor or a rabbi or whoever it may be, so often every tradition has its modalities. They had their models of this is the way we process thing that we're going through. And often the rules. I'm curious, how does ifs start to take a seat at the table of healing? Where does this come from? Because the way you're talking about it, parts have been with us time immortal. It's not like 30 years ago, all of a sudden we had parts, right? No, but this wasn't a part of the psychotherapeutic model at all. How does this even become part of the conversation?

[Tamila Floyd]

Right. I love how this actually became part of the conversation. It became part of the conversation because the founder of IFS, Dr. Dick Schwartz, started noticing that this is the way his clients were speaking, which was very different than the one mind model. Right. So instead of just saying, okay, well this can't be right, we really have a one mind model. He got curious about, well, what is this? And he's just started, you know, he's a PhD, so really started asking questions, not trying to make his client fit what we already knew, but getting curious about, well, this isn't like what we already know. And so the more he engaged these parts, these subpersonalities, the more he learned. And then it's like, okay, I see this with one client, he's noticing it with another, and he's just asking the question. And this is truly how the model developed. Being curious about something that was different from what we already knew. And let's be honest, that's the way new development, new ways of thinking are developed. Anyway, we say, oh, this is different from what we know. Let's get curious about it instead of trying to make it like what we already know.

[Jonathan Fields]

I mean, it's so interesting, right too, because so Dick Schwartz comes onto the scene and says, I'm seeing this in my clients, my patients, and in a repeated basis, maybe there's something to this. Let's expand and deepen into it. In this world approaches, models, they roll out very slowly and they develop over time. And it takes a long time, often for the therapeutic community, the social work community, the supporting community to embrace them. And they have to be proven. And oftentimes when they come out, the people who bring them forward are viewed as mavericks, sometimes even heretics. In this space, I'm curious, to your knowledge of the early days of ifs of parts work, was this also seen as a bit of heresy in the space, or was this just embraced as like, oh, this is new and awesome and it solves so many problems.

[Tamila Floyd]

Unfortunately, it was not embraced. It actually was seen as what we've called now, woo woo. Or you know, it was new age, it was too far outside of science. Is the way that it was seen that we're talking to ourselves, there's people inside of us, you know, what are we talking about? And let's even think back, you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago, the way that we were looking at multiples was that that was dysfunctional, abnormal, and that we needed to bring these different multiples, personalities that a person might have into one. It was about integration. So now what we're saying is kind of the opposite of what we understood the mind to be. So, no, it was not at all accepted.

[Jonathan Fields]

And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life project is sponsored by Function Health. So I just got my first round of functional testing done. I have to tell you, this is unlike any lab work I have experienced before. We're talking over 160 biomarkers tested and all included in the membership. No insurance maze, no hidden fees, just clear insights into what's actually happening in my body. And what impressed me most was how comprehensive the testing is. From heart health to hormones, inflammation, stress levels. It's literally giving me a window into systems and markers I've never really had access to before. And I was able to compare my function labs to recent labs from my annual physical. And function gave me better, more detailed insights that have already led me to make some lifestyle changes. And everything gets tracked in one secure place over time, making it easy to spot trends and changes. And that's why health leaders like Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Jeremy London Trust Function. So learn more and join using our link. The first 1000 get a $100 credit towards their membership. Visit functionhealth.com goodlife or use the gift code goodlife100 at signup to own your health. Good Life Project is sponsored by gab. So here is a startling reality about our kids and screens. Teens now average nine hours a day on screens outside of school. That's essentially a full time job of scrolling and the impact is real. The US Surgeon General warns that kids spending more than three hours a day online are twice as likely to experience depression and anxiety. And this hits close to home. Our executive producer Lindsey was just telling me about trying to balance summer plans with her young kids and she wants to stay connected and know where they are, but without opening the door to endless apps. She got her nine year old the GAB watch 3e and it's exactly what they needed. GAB has created this brilliant approach called Tech in Steps, phones and watches that grow with your child, offering just the right features at the right time. It's thoughtful, intentional technology that keeps kids connected while protecting their mental health. With back to school season just around the corner, now is the perfect time to help your kids focus on learning with a kid safe phone ready to make a change? Visit gab.com goodlife and use the code good life for a special offer that's G A B B.com goodlife or click the link in the show notes. Good Life Project is sponsored by Select Quote so you know that feeling when you realize you missed out on something big. Maybe it was bitcoin at under a dollar. That perfect investment opportunity. Well, while we can't change the past, there's one smart move that we shouldn't put off any Protecting our future with life insurance here's something that might surprise you. Life insurance through Select Quote can cost about the same as your monthly streaming subscription. For over 40 years, they have helped more than 2 million Americans find the right coverage. Their licensed agents do all the heavy lifting, comparing options from top rated insurance companies to find you the best value. Even offering same day coverage up to $2 million, life insurance is never cheaper than it is today. Get the right life insurance for you for less and save more than [e-mail] GoodLife save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] GoodLife Today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com GoodLife or just click the link in the show notes. Okay, so I'm old enough where I came of age at a time where there was a movie called Sybil.

[Tamila Floyd]

I knew you were gonna.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yes, me too. Okay, so we get that reference. For people who don't get the reference, this was. It must have been the 70s maybe or 80s, right. Where this was the hot movie. And it showed this woman who had back then, what was called, quote, split personality. And then we've had all sorts of crime dramas and stuff like this. Well, it was the other person who's in me who did the thing that was terrible. Tease out the distinction here about what we're talking about then between what a DSM might call something like multiple personality disorder and parts that exist within us.

[Tamila Floyd]

And now, just for folks listening, that multiple personality disorder, we now consider it dissociative identity disorder. So we did change the name.

[Jonathan Fields]

Great.

[Tamila Floyd]

And really, the way that we see parts is that the behaviors of parts are on a continuum. And at the far reaches of that continuum is dissociative Identity disorder. So it's still about parts. It's just. This is parts in their most extreme behavior, where parts don't have understanding, connection, or even knowledge about other parts and what those parts are doing when they're in the seat of consciousness. Many of the parts have no connection whatsoever to self or they don't trust self. Because whenever, maybe as a child, this person showed any of the qualities of self, like their playfulness and interest in life and curiosity, perhaps they got punished, beat, harmed. So being that way was not okay. It was not even safe. So this is why these parts take. May have taken on these extreme roles. I mean, we talk about parts being in extreme roles, but extreme roles are still on a continuum with the dissociative identity personality being at the far end. So still parts just extremely separate from the whole.

[Jonathan Fields]

Lingering my mind now then, is, are we born with parts or do the parts emerge through some sort of happening?

[Tamila Floyd]

I love this question. Thank you so much for this question. We are born with our parts, and our parts have distinct roles within our system at birth that you know, are going to develop even more over the course of our life from their experiences. However, the parts take on extreme roles in order to protect us, so they change their roles. So that one that became people pleaser within my system, this part was born as one who really connected with people. She was very playful, she was light. She loved being around others, and she found that people liked her when she was this way, she found that when she behaved in other ways, that was not acceptable. So this part that was kind of connecting with people eventually went to the extreme of being a people pleaser because she noticed that she was more acceptable as a people pleaser than when she did something else. So the parts have their natural roles at birth, but because of how they interact with the family, the community, what happens to them in school or with friends, that causes parts to feel like, ooh, that wasn't good. I need to now protect this person from having that negative experience again, if I. People please, unlikable people are happy with me and Tamila because the part is saying Tamela doesn't have to experience the pain that she experienced in the past.

[Jonathan Fields]

Let's stay with the people pleaser part and dive into this a little bit. Right. Because this is also personal for you. So you can share from lived experience. Right?

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

In your mind, in the work that you've done before, the people pleaser part in you picked up the mantle of saying, ooh, if I do this more, then I'm more welcomed by more people. And that's like something that I want before I picked up the mantle of having that job. What was the people pleaser part and what was its job?

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah. So all she was was someone that was happy, connecting, lovable, playful, interested in life. These were the qualities that I would ascribe to her before she was burdened. So she. So, so even though it was a way in which she connected with people, it wasn't about pleasing them. It was just her being carefree and lovely and playful and connecting with folks. But it wasn't about. About some type of approval from others at that point. Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

So at some point then it sounds like we all have these different parts in us. They all play positive roles and they're all fairly organic to us. But often the part has a realization or maybe something happens externally, maybe there's a circumstance. So the part sees, okay, if I kind of amplify the way I'm doing it or I add an intention or a goal or an outcome to it, it's going to serve this person like the bigger person in a way that maybe keeps them safe or whatever the outcome may be and it kind of takes on this almost extreme version of the original purer intention. Does that land?

[Tamila Floyd]

That definitely lands, Absolutely. I love the way that you said that. Yeah. That it becomes more extreme. It's not as pure as it was. There is a job now that's the other distinct. When I had this kind of carefree connecting with folks, there was no job in that. That was just me being me. But when I became a people pleaser, this part took on that people pleasing role. That was a job like I have to people please in order to be accepted. This is how I get love. This is how I'm accepted. This is how I'm okay. And most important to the parts in the system, this is how we keep Tamla from feeling hurt, unlovable, unworthy, whatever that sensitivity, that vulnerability under that is.

[Jonathan Fields]

So this is kind of the moment when apart tips from. And again, correct me if this isn't the right language, but in my mind it sounds like this is when apart tips from healthy and functional to unhealthy and dysfunctional.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah. So what I would.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right. You're kind of like ish. Not quite.

[Tamila Floyd]

Not quite. We're close.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. So tell me what more. Right.

[Tamila Floyd]

And I think that that's the way most people would understand that. So I do want to say that first. And so one of the things that I love about IFS is that it's non pathologizing. So we wouldn't say dysfunctional. What we would say is that this is what the part needed to do to keep us safe. Like it's all of the parts roles, no matter how extreme, no matter how we would call it dysfunctional, when we understand how and why they took on the roles that they did, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense why they're doing what they're doing. You know, my people pleaser wanted to feel love. And one of the messages she received as a child is that you are valuable as long as you're making good grades in school. And when you make a grade that isn't a good grade, you are not lovable. No one said that to me. No one said that to me. The behavior is how this part interpreted the behavior. And the behavior was my father saying to me after bringing home a C, no child of mine is average. My part translated that to then I'm not a child of his. I mean, I'm a kid, right? So you know, I'm not a child of his or he doesn't love me unless I do that. So that's what became the people pleaser. Oh, if I do what people want expect of me, then I'm lovable, I'm worthy, I'm valuable, I'm connected to them. So it's these things that as a child we interpret and that clearly was not his meaning. But that's how the part interpreted it.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting, right? So it's like oftentimes then maybe these shifts in roles, it sounds like I would imagine for a lot of people, the switch gets flipped early in childhood. If there's a moment or an unfolding that happens and it's like, oh, and then what you're saying, if I understand it right, is that this is not viewed as dysfunction. This is viewed as. There's. This part of you says, oh, okay, so love is important to me.

[Tamila Floyd]

Right.

[Jonathan Fields]

I just heard this thing from my dad, and for me to be his child, to keep in, like, under the umbrella of his love, I need to make good grades on a consistent basis. I need to. Please. He didn't mean that. That wasn't. But that's what your part thought and said. So at that point, it's actually. It's acting on what it believes is good intention.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

So I see why it's like we don't label that as dysfunction because.

[Tamila Floyd]

No, it's adapting.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right in its eyes. It's like, oh, this is the thing that I want. This is the thing that's good. And here's the way that I would behave in order to keep it as part of my experience of life.

[Tamila Floyd]

I'm loving the way that you're phrasing this. That's perfect.

[Jonathan Fields]

Let's zoom the lens out a little bit. So you have had within you this part, this people pleaser part.

[Tamila Floyd]

Right.

[Jonathan Fields]

In the canon of ifs, from what I understand. And you write about a number of different parts, so let's talk about some of them. I guess there are parts that are commonly occurring across large numbers of people. You reference the people pleaser part as having a job in part as protection. But I've also heard the phrase protector parts.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yes.

[Jonathan Fields]

What are we talking about when we're talking about protector parts?

[Tamila Floyd]

Right. So our protector parts are protecting what we call in ifs, our exiles. And those are our vulnerable parts. And the reason they want to protect the exile is they're protecting them from experiencing whatever harm they experience earlier. So in the case of my people pleaser, a part of me got exiled. And what got exiled was this carefree, light, connecting, loving part of me that got exiled because that got in the way of me being perfect, you know, the way in which I thought this part thought my parent, my dad particularly wanted me to show up. So parts of us get exiled, pushed away. What the protector is doing is saying, okay, I don't want that one that was really hurt when she heard, no child of mine gets A C or is it is average. I don't want her to experience that pain again. So we're going to tuck her away and instead I will show up as the people pleaser to make sure this one doesn't get hurt again. So that. So art. So. And we have two types of protectors. We have managers, and that's what the. The people pleaser is doing. Managers are preemptive. They are doing all they can. And I think about them as like the hamster on the wheel. They're doing all they can to make sure that one doesn't get hurt again, the exile doesn't get hurt again. So if I People please, she won't get hurt. The other type of protectors we term firefighters, so they're the ones that are reactive. So if that unworthiness, because that's really what my. My little one felt, she felt unworthy and maybe even unlovable. If something in my life triggers or activates that. That feeling of rejection, Unlovable, unworthy. And I start to feel that in my body. The firefighters come in and they do what firefighters do. They douse whatever's happening. Right. So I'm feeling unworthy. Something's happened in my life. The firefighter comes in. One of my firefighters is eating sugar. She comes in and I've got to go for the sugar. Right. So that I don't have to feel the unlovable or the unworthy that got activated. So managers act preemptively, keep us from feeling it in the first place. Firefighters act reactively once we start to feel some of that pain.

[Jonathan Fields]

Got it. And then the exile is the part of you that the protector is basically protecting from being hurt, but it's doing it by effectively vanishing it.

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Fields]

From how you show up. So there's a part of you that. That exile part will. The word exile. Right. It's basically, it's been exiled. So it's no longer going to be in your everyday experience. And you know, as you described in your case, if this is the joyful, the playful, the carefree, the curious. Right. I mean, how tragic.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah, right. Right. So I became very serious. I was a, you know, very. Like, this is the way in which, you know, or if it wasn't serious, it's. What are the adults looking for? You know, what do they. Whether, you know, teachers might want different things from me than my Girl Scout leader, than my mom versus my dad. You know, what are the adults looking for? Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

So the exile also, the way you describe it is, would be a part that has Significant vulnerability. Tell me more about that.

[Tamila Floyd]

What makes the exiles vulnerable is that they have learned that their natural way of being in the world is unacceptable. That's the message that the exiles get. That's the vulnerability, like, I can't be me. That's why that ends up getting pushed away. And I do want to share that. Exiles are not only exiled by the protector parts who want to push them away and keep them safe, they too may decide to shrink. Like, ooh, this isn't okay. So they may, in and of themselves choose to hide. So they are hidden and may choose to hide.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right. So it's like the protector takes on this role of protecting that part. And the exile itself says, okay, so part of the role that I'm going to take on now is to back away, to shrink. Using your words.

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. It's so interesting, right, because the way that you're describing this too, and I wonder if this comes up in conversation or in practice. It feels like I would imagine people listening to this and saying, oh, I can immediately tell you the part of me that's exiled now that I have a sense of this. I can tell you exactly. If I think back to when I was a kid, there was a moment where I was happy, I was carefree, I was goofy, I was dorky, I was nerdy, whatever it is. And something, maybe it was social situation made me feel like, oh, it's not okay to be this way. And that part got tucked away. This is the part, though, or maybe the parts where I'll tell from my own experience. I think of that part as the quote. Well, that's the real me rather than a part. That's the essential me. Like the part that when sixth grade, I got a nickname that made me before being a dork. I didn't show that for decades. So it's interesting to me that you describe that as. Well, that's not the whole you. That was just a part of you where it's like, I kind of look at it. I'm like, that's the essence of me, though. Talk me through this a little bit.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah, so what you're describing too is now I'm going to talk about kind of the fractal experience of ifs. Okay, so you have a part that might be the dorky, goofy part of you, and it feels, you know, very much like you, you know, but parts also have self in them. So there's the self of you as a human, Jonathan. Self, energy, the self. But we have all these parts that we're made up of. But each part also can be self led. So it can also have qualities of self. Like I talked about that young part of me being curious, you know, about the world. And so curiosity is one of the qualities of ourself. And our parts can have these qualities too.

[Jonathan Fields]

I think I'm wrapping my head around that.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah, I get it.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right. I know we went to the deep end of the pool there a little bit. We did go to the deep end. But even this basic idea, okay, so that we have these parts of ourselves that oftentimes early in life, something happens where we gain the feeling that it's not acceptable to sort of like be that part in an observable and a public way. So that part becomes exiled and it sometimes intentionally shrinks itself. And then we have this other part which kind of takes on the role of the protector. Like, I'm going to make sure that you're still. Okay, so I'm going to then. And it kind of makes sense because if one part is shrinking and another part doesn't expand, there's going to be a void.

[Tamila Floyd]

Right, right, exactly. That makes sense. Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

And I love the notion that we have, especially in the protective part, if we're talking about there's these two different types. The manager who's sort of there every day, and then the firefighter is like, oh, something bad's happening. Let me four alarms, let's go and let's take care of this. I want to get back to the self a little bit more here also. So if I think about this from almost like an Eastern philosophical lens, like a Buddhist lens, I think a lot of Eastern philosophy is much more comfortable talking about this idea. And if we talk about in the context of meditation, where if you meditate and you are not your thoughts, there is a self within you, a capital S Self that is observing all of these different things. I guess what I'd love your take on, and we talked about this a little bit already, is like, who is that person really? So if it's not actually just an amalgam of the parts, help me here.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah, it is what you're describing. It's that essence. It's our core, it's our humanness and described in many different philosophies and traditions. And it is slightly indescribable. Right. It's difficult to describe when you're talking about the essence of someone or their core. One of the ways we can describe it is talk about its qualities. That's what we do in IFS is we talk about the qualities of the self. And I think other traditions do the same because it really is something difficult to describe. So some of the qualities of self, there are eight of them all starting with C and I'm always going to forget one, but here we go. So there's curiosity, clarity, calm, courage, creativity and anyway, here we go. But there are eight of them and they all, when we think about accessing these qualities of self, these are the qualities that we come into relationship with our parts with. Like many of my parts did not experience kind of that connection about me being, you know, this carefree, you know, just really connecting with, that's who I am and allowing me to be that being curious about why our parts are behaving the way that they do. You know, when we talk about earlier, like the part that is super critical or angry, one of the ways we help that part is instead of judging it because often raging critical, angry parts get judged internally and in the world. So now they get to come into relationship with self. And self is just curious. I just want to know about the anger. Tell me what that feels like. Tell me what's happening instead of don't be angry, that's unacceptable. Well, that's only going to cause that part to act out or be get bigger in that anger and rage.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Nutrafol. So here's something incredible. My wife Stephanie started using Nutrafol Women's balance when she noticed changes in her hair during menopause and she was concerned. Seeing more strands than usual in her brush each morning. The transformation was remarkable. Her hair feels fuller, healthier and she sees way less breakage. And when she briefly stopped taking it, the shedding came back and she knew that this was the one supplement she couldn't skip. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million million people. You can feel great about what you're putting into your body. Since Nutrafol hair growth supplements are backed by peer reviewed studies and NSF content certified the gold standard in third party certification for supplements. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promotion promo code Good Life. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code good life that's nutrafol.com or just click the link in the show notes Promo code Good Life Good Life Project is sponsored by Beam Dream Powder so you know how it goes. Day winds down, but your mind ramps up. We have all been there staring at the ceiling at 2am Wrestling with thoughts about tomorrow's projects. Been there so many times. So I was really excited to check out Beam. So Beam is this all natural sleep blend that works with your body to help you drift off naturally and wake up feeling refreshed without any morning fog or grogginess. They've improved over 17 and a half million nights of sleep with 92% of users reporting better sleep quality. And it's made right here in America. So I'm actually recording this after returning from Japan last night. I figured great time to try Beam to help reset my sleep system system after a 13 hour time difference and a 12 hour flight. So I mixed up a cup of their brownie batter flavor before bed. It tastes like hot chocolate. It's just so good. But the coolest part? I fell asleep easily, slept 10 hours, then woke up at my normal morning time in Boulder feeling really good today. I'm kind of blown away to be honest. I'm excited to have Beam in my good sleep arsenal now. And for a limited time, Beam is giving our listeners their best offer yet, up to 40% off. Try their best selling Dream Powder and get up to to 40% off. For a limited time. Go to shopbeam.com goodlife and use code good life at checkout. That's shop b a m.com goodlife or just click the link in the show notes and use that Code Good Life for up to 40% off. Good life Project is sponsored by Earth Breeze. So you know what's been on my mind lately? All those unnecessary chemicals and everyday products. When I started looking into what was actually in my laundry detergent, I was pretty surprised. Many popular detergents contain harsh chemicals that stick to clothes and can irritate your skin. And the wild part? Some of these chemicals, like optical brighteners, they aren't even cleaning your clothes. They're just creating an illusion of brighter whites. And that is why I am really glad that I found Earth Breeze. So their detergent sheets are free from optical brighteners, dyes, parabens, phosphates and preservatives. Plus they're hypoallergenic and non irritating. So so instead of bulky plastic jugs, you get lightweight Sheets that dissolve completely in the wash and your clothes come out clean and fresh without harsh chemical residue. Want to try a powerful clean without unnecessary toxins? Visit earthbreeze.com GLP for 40% off plus 4 free gifts that's earthbreeze.com GLp for 40% off plus 4 free Gifts Listen up.

[Tamila Floyd]

You can get the new iPhone 16e with Apple Intelligence for just $49.99 when you switch to Boost MO.

[Jonathan Fields]

We pulled so many all nighters to give you this deal and hey, stop.

[Tamila Floyd]

Messing with the mic. I'm just helping this catch people's attention. This is a great deal.

[Jonathan Fields]

Exactly. So it doesn't need all that.

[Tamila Floyd]

Fine. Head to your nearest Boost mobile store right now.

[Jonathan Fields]

Visit your nearest Boost mobile store for full offer details. Apple Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later. Restrictions apply I would imagine. A lot of times, even if we just start to recognize these parts within ourselves, our first response is that's not okay. Maybe it came to us in the beginning and it's not okay to behave this way. It's not okay to be this way. So I need to kill this part of myself. I need to extinguish it. Because it's like I see that it's causing me harm, I see that I go into a meeting and I start to behave this way and I can actively see that it's causing outcomes that I don't want in my life. So I need to figure out how to extinguish this part. That doesn't work, does it?

[Tamila Floyd]

It doesn't work, but our parts think it's the only choice that they have in order to make sure that we don't get into trouble when we're in the meeting at work, right? Is that if I don't just cut that part off, then I can be present. Not the self, another part. I can be present to make sure that Jonathan doesn't lose his job, that Jonathan doesn't say the wrong thing in that meeting.

[Jonathan Fields]

So why doesn't this work? Why doesn't trying to like extinguish that part work?

[Tamila Floyd]

Because eventually the energy of that part that's been exiled, it's to keep the ball under the water, in the pool, eventually it's going to pop up, right? So it's just not foolproof. There are times when that energy is going to be present and that's why it's more important. And it works better to come into relationship, to be with the part, to understand the part, to let the part know. Because another thing that these parts really believe is that they're alone. They also believe they have no choice. So two things that self self helps the part appreciate is one, you're not alone, you have Jonathan. And two, there are other ways you do have choice. And the key to ifs and parts work working is that those protectors are not going to give up their jobs, the managers and the firefighters, until we heal the one they protect. A lot of other therapies work treating the angry part, the critical part, the overeating parts, you know, the parts that are affecting the client's life, but we're not getting to the one underneath that got exile, that called these parts to their jobs and to their duties to begin with. So that's the goal is we need that part of me that got exile because she was so carefree, we have to heal her. And how she got healed is we came into relationship with the parts that were protecting her. In my case, the people pleaser realizes the one that got hurt, that felt rejected when dad said, don't have children that are average. And so we dealt with and healed that rejection because that was the vulnerability. And that's what would get triggered, you know, when a breakup would happen in my life, I felt rejected. I'd feel the deep pain of that one that had been put aside.

[Jonathan Fields]

I want to make sure I'm understanding this too, that oftentimes what we do instead of trying to heal the hurt part is we look at the parts that are that step forward, that often the protector part, or we try and elicit that stepping forward, we're like, okay, so you were in a place where you were insulted or felt really uncomfortable, or you were bullied for being who you were. You pulled back that part of you, whatever it was that you felt was sort of like the thing that the way that you were showing up, the part that ended up attracting bullying, of course we know that that's not the way it works. But in your mind, you probably tell ourselves that story, we tuck that away. And then what you're describing, I guess, is instead of trying to figure out what is that part, who is that part and how do we heal it? Often what we do is we say, okay, how are you going to be braver? How are you going to be more confident? How are you going to go learn how to fight? And these serve a purpose, right? Because maybe for a moment in time, they keep us safe. They allow us to step back into some sort of social context. They allow us to breathe again for a moment. But what you're saying is that part that's been exiled, that truly hurt part, as long as that stay is exiled, there's gonna be an ache that never heals inside of us, no matter how brave or how competent or how fortified and armored those other protector parts get. Is that right?

[Tamila Floyd]

That's right. That is perfect.

[Jonathan Fields]

But that's what we do so often. Like, that's how we go about, like, quote, fixing the problem.

[Tamila Floyd]

Fixing the problem. Exactly. I wanna be the opposite of what hurt me. If what hurt me was being weak, then I need to be strong. If what hurt me was being weak, meek and quiet, then I need to be loud and boisterous and out there, you know? So, yeah, so whatever it was that hurt us, some part is going to step into the role, take on the job of protecting us in a way. One of the things that you said that I think is really important, or at least alluded to, is that the parts are going to like, they can't stop doing this job. And at one time it worked, right? That strategy worked. The reason I see people in therapy is because those strategies are broken down. They don't work anymore. And so they're like, hey, I've done everything I can. I've tried this and this and this. It's not working anymore. I'm still feeling this rejection. I need to work with this. That's where the strategies have broken down. But the thing, and this is why we like not to call them a dysfunction, because they, they did serve a purpose. They worked. Otherwise the parts wouldn't have kept doing them. Me. People pleasing worked for a long time until it did.

[Jonathan Fields]

And I guess it's when it stops working. That's often when people are like, oh, I thought I was okay, right? And I'm like, I'm doing everything I've always done and that. Everything. It always worked.

[Tamila Floyd]

It always worked.

[Jonathan Fields]

And for some reason, it's not working. That must be so confounding when somebody comes to you and they're like, literally, I've been showing up this way for 20 years and it's got me where I am. Like, I have a really good life and I, like, I don't get wounded easily and stuff like this. And now it's kind of, I'm doing, I'm showing up as the same person, but it's not working anymore. That must be such a, like, incredibly frustrating moment for folks.

[Tamila Floyd]

It is. It really is. And I get curious about what's the breakdown, what's not working, what's changed, you know, because that's where we can Step into the healing. You know that. Yes. You've done it for 20 years and it's worked, but now it's not. And why not?

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. Do you see patterns there as well? Are there sort of like common reasons why things eventually like that original way of being breaks down?

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah. The main pattern that I see, why it breaks down across all different types of parts and situations is different. The parts get tired, they get exhausted. My people pleaser was exhausted. She just didn't want to do what other people wanted her to do anymore because they're not in their natural role. So just think about anything that you do unnaturally for a long period of time. At some point, you're not going to want to do that anymore. And that's what happens. The parts just get exhausted.

[Jonathan Fields]

I mean, I would imagine this shows up people in work context all the time too. It's like you have an offer for a job. You're like, this isn't quite me, but I really want it. And maybe economically you're like, I really need this. Security is a big value to me and this is important to me. So I'm going to kind of shapeshift a little bit. I'm going to push this part forward and almost lead with it, even though I know that takes a lot of energy to do that. And you do that and you get the job and you grow in the job and you have all the stuff. It's got to be incredibly. Take that example. You rise up a ladder that you aspired to rise up. It's 15 years later. You've been showing up with this parts configuration for so many years, and it's gotten you, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. And now you have people relying on you to sustain a family or extended family or friends, whatever it may be, causes you care about. And then the parts are just done. The way that I'm showing up, me being pushed to the front like this, no more. I'm exhausted. I can't do it anymore. It's got to be a moment where even if you know what's going on, it's like you've built the artifice of a life around your parts showing up in a particular way. And even if you sit down with a therapist, with someone like you who's really steeped into this, and you're like, oh, wow, this is what's happening. At the same time, you're like, but I've built a life around this, and I don't want to dismantle that life. That has got to be just A relationship, a tough moment.

[Tamila Floyd]

That is a really tough moment. And one of the things you're also touching on is that part that personality becomes us in the way that we start to believe this high achieving person who's promoted to senior VP of something and something else, that that's me. But it's not because we've been living it for 15, 20 years. And so we hit disconnected from the true self. And in ifs we call these self like parts. And one of the experiences that I had around that is definitely connected to the people pleaser. Because in addition to being a people pleaser, what I also came to realize and my parts did, it's that being smart paid off. Like you need to be the smart one. So that also came from that sea experience, right? So I became an intellectualizer. Now I didn't know this, I didn't know I had a part that was intellectualizing. I remember and I'm going to get back to how this can really shake you. I remember being in therapy in, I don't know, probably my 30s, late 30s, and the therapist saying, you truly are an intellectualizer. That's how you move through life. And I was like, what do you mean I'm an intellectualizer?

[Jonathan Fields]

And that's like, you intellectualize. Like, no, I'm not thought. Let's argue this out, right?

[Tamila Floyd]

Because you're so steep in that identity. And so I thought I was just a smart person. Like, that's just how I move through the world. I'm smart, I figure things out, I work through things. I have all these degrees. That's the right. What? Oh, that's a part that's not me. And I learned that, no, the self like parts are not. They're so close to who you are. You know, the veil is very thin. It feels like you, but it's not all of you.

[Jonathan Fields]

How do we start to use the word to? I think you use the phrase build a relationship or be back in relationship with your partner. Once we start to realize, oh, this is what's happening here, there's been some kind of breakdown in some way, which I think is probably how most of us awaken to the fact that, oh, something's not working for me anymore. And maybe they get exposed to the notion of parts and parts working. Like, oh, I'm starting to get this. I'm starting to see, like this part is taking the lead and. Or this part is really shrunk back or being exiled. Like I don't need. And tell me if this is the right language. Rebuild the Relationship with the parts in a way that works for us. Or I think you actually used the phrase unburdening to unburden.

[Tamila Floyd]

So the one thing, the first thing is the getting in relationship with. That's the first thing. And who you're getting into relationship with are your protectors, the intellectualizer, the one who's getting angry, the critical one, the people pleaser. Because those are the ones that are protecting the exile. And we don't get to heal or unburden. Who gets unburdened is the exile typically. But we don't get there unless we develop a relationship with the ones who protect it. You know, so you think about a family, as we call this internal family system therapy. You don't get access typically to people's children unless you have a relationship with the parents. So the protectors are who we have to come into relationship with before. So when I was saying being in relationship, like using the example of drawing the parts, externalizing our parts are a really good way to come into relationship with them instead of just kind of trying to figure them out in our head or come into relationship with them in our head by ourselves. So if we're working by ourself, one of the great ways is to either have something that represents the part like a shell or a small miniature. If you have children, one of your children's toys can represent your various parts. Right? And then asking the parts coming into relationship with what I've drawn on the page or these parts that I've externalized with my kids toys to talk, to understand what is it it that is causing the anger? What is your job in my. How do you help me? What is your job in my system? How did you take on this job? How long have you been doing it? This helps us get to the ones that these parts protect when we can take ourselves back to childhood, which is typically where this has occurred. But sometimes it can be a little later. But take us back to the origin of when this part felt it had to protect us this way. Then eventually we want to get to who it's protecting. So when I get to my part that felt rejected, who people pleaser is protecting, that's the one I'm going to unburden. Because the rejected part took on some beliefs about itself. Like I'm not good enough. So I need to, you know, that felt the rejection because I'm not good enough. And this is why I'm shrinking, because I'm not good enough. So that's the one we're going to heal or Unburden.

[Jonathan Fields]

So we start out with the protector part. It's almost like we call for the protector part. And I guess we step into this conversation with the protector part with the intention of benevolence, assuming that the part had the intention of benevolence, not saying, hey, evil part, come here. You're causing a breakdown in my life. We need to figure out how to just set you down. You're like, no, no, let's. I want to know you. Let's go back and understand how you've been really good. And it's helped me so much until this moment and honor and acknowledge that. And it sounds like that then gives you. I love the description of if you want to talk to a kid, you start by building a relationship with the parent because the parent has access to the child. And then that helps you then gain access to the exile part. And that's where the deeper unburdening work starts to happen.

[Tamila Floyd]

That's right.

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay, so talk to me about the process of unburdening.

[Tamila Floyd]

Now, once our protectors give us access to, they identify that it's the rejected one that I'm protecting. And I would say, if I could go to that rejected one and help it, would you be open to that? Now, remember, by the time I'm seeing these clients, these parts are exhausted. Like, okay, if you think you can help. I mean, certainly some parts are skeptical, but ultimately the part, once they give us permission to be with that young one, that exile, then we want to come into relationship with the exile and understand, just like we did with the protector, really understanding its role. Why is it hiding what has happened? You know, how long have you felt this way? What are you holding? I really want to understand what caused you to step back. And so one of the things that I often do is I'll ask the exile. Ask the client to ask their exile part to show them. Show the client what hurt this part so much. What was this part? Struggle. So in my case, and I'll say maybe show it like a movie, you know, just kind of just showing you the pictures of the movie of that time. So what came up from my rejected part was when she brought that C in science home in the fifth grade or whenever. And so she shows that scene, and you see the hurt and the dejection and the rejection that this part felt when she heard that this isn't a child of her father's. Right. We are. Then how would that cause you to interact with that part? Jonathan, if this part is sharing, I just felt like I was unlovable. Like I was just being thrown away. How would you respond to that little one?

[Jonathan Fields]

Do you want to give him a hug? I mean, yeah, Right.

[Tamila Floyd]

So connection, right. Somehow we want to connect with this part. And once the parts see that, oh, this is a safe, big person, this is someone who is really curious and cares about me, the part may come closer. I've had my part sit in my lap to come close. So we want to learn more and let the part know it's okay for you to share your experience. And we call that witnessing in ifs. We're witnessing the experience that this heart part had in the past. After the witnessing is complete, we can find out, you know, sometimes our parts are stuck in the past, like kind of frozen in the past. We might want to bring them out of that scene. Sometimes they come on their own. If a part comes, it gets closer to you and sits in your lap. It's already left that trauma scenes present with you. Right. So after we witness, we're going to invite these parts into releasing any beliefs or thoughts or feelings that they took on as a result of that burden that they're holding in their bodies. We help them to unburden that. And typically unburdening is to one of the elements like fire, earth, wind. So we have them unburden that, release it, say to the air or on water. And then the part had some innate qualities that it was born with, right. But clearly while it's been exiled, it hasn't been expressing those qualities. It gets to invite back in those qualities that it has exiled or that it didn't get to express. And so it brings those qualities in. And so we call that the empathy we've unburdened, the burdens we're inviting in, the qualities this part will need moving forward now that it will no longer be hidden. And then we do what we call integration. We invite back in those parts that were protecting this part. So we would invite back in my people pleaser part to see how this little one now is no longer burden and has these qualities now that to move forward. And the reason we do that is it lets the protector know this part doesn't need protecting anymore. She is strong, he is strong, they are strong, they are healthy. And so now you get to protect her, take on a new role. Because now you don't have to protect. You can be something else in the system.

[Jonathan Fields]

And that exhaustion that you described, like having to carry that burden of protection for so long, it's like, okay, so now I see that the part that I've been protecting for so long, the world has changed, circumstances have changed. It's safe for them to now actually come out and show up as they did in before times. And they are now. They're ready, they're willing, they see that. So I can let down the mantle and the exhaustion that has come along with it for so many years. Is that right?

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely. And then this part gets to choose how it wants to be in the system. It may not want, you know, whatever it was doing before, it doesn't have to do that anymore because this other one doesn't require the protection. And of course, that relieves them of the exhaustion too.

[Jonathan Fields]

When you're working with somebody in a therapeutic context, having the types of conversations that you just described, who are you talking to in the conversation?

[Tamila Floyd]

What's happening is the. I'm talking to my client's self, not a part. I am talking to their self. And there's things we do earlier to make sure that the self is who's in the seat of consciousness and not another part. So once that's clear, who's being in relationship with the client's part is the client's self. So those qualities of. So that the curiosity and the calm and the connection that's coming from the client's part, client's self to the part.

[Jonathan Fields]

Got it. So when you ask the client, well, like, you, like, play the movie of that moment, it's the self that's playing the movie, or it's asking the part to sort of, like, tell the story in the form of the movie.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yes. Yeah. So the self asked that question, and then the exile is showing us their pains. The exile is playing the movie.

[Jonathan Fields]

So it's almost like you're prompting the self to prompt the parts.

[Tamila Floyd]

Exactly. And when a person has enough self energy. Oh, so glad you said that. I'm prompting the self to prompt the parts. There's a point in IFS therapy where I don't have to do that anymore. Basically, I'm sitting with my client in my own self energy. So I have to make sure my parts, you know, step back in my own self energy, holding the process. So because the other quality is not AC quality, but we know that it exists, is that the self is also intuitive. Like, I don't have to keep prompting. At some point, the self is gonna move closer to the little one. Just like I asked you, like, how would you respond? You know, the self is gonna know this little one is being vulnerable and it's unprotected. I'm gonna go over there or ask, invite that one to come close to me and hold it if it wants to be held. Right. So at some point I'm saying things like, so what's happening now? I'm not having to prompt. It's like, well, she's come into my lap. I'm hugging her. She's sharing more of my story. Okay, let her share as much of her story as she wants to. Just know that I'm here if you need any type of support. So now they have their own relationship, which is what we want, because the therapist one is not going to be in your life forever and ever. And we want the part to have their own connection to the client's self.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. And I guess to you as a therapist also, that must be really an important signal to you, like, oh, okay, we've just sort of crossed the threshold here where there's like a level of self efficacy that's starting to emerge and awareness that this person can probably start to internalize this and notice a lot of these things and then figure out how to appropriately rebalance or unburden without as much or as frequent or in depth intervention from somebody in the outside.

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

You use the phrase embodied a number of times during our conversation also, especially in the context of trauma. And I know that's a part of the work that you do also. I think what's interesting to me about the work also is that, yes, you use ifs, I know, as a sort of essential modality, but you also take a very somatic, more broadly somatic approach within the working assumption that trauma is experience, I guess, not just in this reallocation of the way that the parts show up, but it's like in the physical body itself. It's embodied. And we see the work of Bessel, van der Kolk and so many others who've come after. How does this notion inform the work of unburdening, of getting back to yourself, of integrating trauma?

[Tamila Floyd]

So because we know that trauma actually gets stuck in the body, it shows up in the body. Parts do too. You know, there are parts that might show up in our head or in our gut or in our throat. Right. And where the burdens are showing up. So it's really important. One of the first things we do when we're working with the client, say working with that angry part. Right. I would say, where do you notice that? In your body? Where does that part live? In your body? And sometimes our parts are just outside of our body. So I might say in or around your Body. Like, sometimes it's, you know, just outside of our body somewhere. Right. The reason that's so important is when we get to the point of unburdening a part, we really want the client to be able to release that part from wherever it shows up in the body. So that part of me that. That felt rejected. Where did rejection show up in my body? Showed up in my heart. It also showed up in my solar plex. So that's where we want to release it from because it literally is taking up space in the client's body in those locations. So that's why it's really important. And also it helps us to know which parts are present. Like, I know the difference between anxiety in my gut and rejection in my gut. They show up differently. It's not the exact same heat or movement or sensation in the body. So you also know, oh, okay, I see that anxiety part. It's not the part that felt rejected. Right. So that also helps us to know who's present, who's here with us right now.

[Jonathan Fields]

I mean, so it's really interesting, Right. There's this relationship between the parts, the burdens they take on the process of unburdening the part. But also then it sounds like the process of almost like dissociating the part from the physical part of the body in which it resides.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yes, absolutely. Yes. And not only do we want to release the burden from the body in the way that it shows up. Again, just for clarification, because I might not have been clear, we're not releasing the part. Like, we're not getting rid of the part. Yeah. What I'm releasing is whatever burden my parts are holding. Right. So that rejection, but someone's holding the rejection. So I want to keep the someone and just unburden the rejection that they were holding. The other part about embodiment is when we invite in the gifts, we're inviting our clients to take those gifts into their body. So if I want to take in the gift of I am valuable and lovable, I want to feel that within my body, within my system, to actually really bring that in. So that's the other piece of the embodiment too.

[Jonathan Fields]

So it's like, if there's a part that lives in your heart, and this is a loving, generous, kind part, and it's been tucked away like it's been exiled, that part is still going to be there. And then when you sort of like when it unburdens itself, it's like that part allows to expand in that same area also. And it's like I have this visual now. It's a very weird visual. Just popped into my head. Like the old game operation where you have little tweezers and a buzzer and you're trying to remove this, this, this, this. And I'm just like, okay, so a map of my body with the different parts. Parts located in different places in my body. And if I'm anxious, I feel it often in my gut. So maybe there's something happening there. And if you could unburden that, like, maybe the somatic response to that is the gut just feels relaxed and. Okay.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing that I like about knowing where my parts show up, like, I do have a part that holds anxiety. She shows up in my gut. She's been unburdened, but she still. What this part holds is I want you to do a good job. And one of the ways she lets me know she's here and wants me to do a good job is she makes my stomach a little nervous. Right. And so I'll put my hand on my stomach before I'm getting ready to do something that might cause her. Now, she used to take me out. Now it's just a little, eh. Just want you to know I want you to do a good job. And I can let her know, yeah, I hear you. And I'm good. I'm really good. Thank you. And if you want to just go relax, you can, because we know already that when you relax, I really can do a good job. She's like, yeah, that's right. I remember that. You know, so that's the benefit of coming into relationship with the parts. So instead of her taking me out, making me stutter, oh, I can't remember what I was going to talk about, which is what she used to do before she was unburdened. You know, she's just a little reminder that, you know, I'm just really here because I really want you to show up.

[Jonathan Fields]

Well, yeah, it's like, hey, this matters, remember? But you're gonna be okay.

[Tamila Floyd]

But you're right, I'm not gonna die. Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

And I think that brings us to sort of like the final thing. And this is actually how you wrap your book, with this notion of this is not a one and done. This is a conversation that we keep revisiting and keeps unfolding until our final breath.

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely. We want to continue to be in relationship with our parts however we can. And the more work we do with parts, we may uncover other parts. Like, for some parts, it's not Safe to come out first. Right. They kind of want to sit in the background, let me see about this ifs, and see if it really is, you know, what the person thinks it is. Right. But once they see some of our parts, get some healing, they too will come up to the fore. And that's another reason why it's not a one and done. Now I have clients who say, how many parts do I have? How many parts are going to need healing? I said, I don't know. But this is a good thing because they are trusting you. They're trusting yourself to be there for them when they come up for healing. So, yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

And to be unburdened, I guess you could also, you could sort of like, reframe that and say, like, oh, dear God, how many parts do I have? They're going to keep coming out of the woodwork and say, like, how incredible that I have so many parts that can become unburdened and become, like, beautiful allies in the way that I want to show up in the world and how I want to be and do and become and that it's not like I actually have this incredible community around me that I can tap into.

[Tamila Floyd]

Yes.

[Jonathan Fields]

Tell a little bit of a different story about them, Right?

[Tamila Floyd]

Absolutely. I just love the way that you reframe a lot of the concepts of ifs. I mean, it's just so beautifully spoken, really.

[Jonathan Fields]

I'm just trying to, like, simplify it for me so I can wrap my head around it.

[Tamila Floyd]

So it's beautiful. You have a poetic way of speaking that I'm really enjoying.

[Jonathan Fields]

Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Love learning from you as well. It feels like a good place for us to comfort circle in our conversation. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes.

[Tamila Floyd]

Up to live a good life, Know that you are whole, well, healthy and wise.

[Jonathan Fields]

Thank you.

[Tamila Floyd]

You're welcome. You're very welcome.

[Jonathan Fields]

Hey, before you leave, if you love this episode Safe Beta, you'll also love the conversation we had with Tara Bryant about using mindfulness and compassion to free ourselves from suffering. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor. Step and second favor, share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome too. But just one person even then, invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time.

[Tamila Floyd]

Time.

[Jonathan Fields]

I'm Jonathan Fields signing off for good life project.

[Commercial Narrator]

This is Rose. Rose's flight is delayed again. At this point, she has walked the entire terminal twice and has memorized every news headline on the airport tv. All she really wants to do is take off. Good thing Rose has a library of free ebooks with Prime. Suddenly she's chasing bad guys, kissing hot vampires, solving murders, you know, living her best life. Free ebooks library. It's on Prime. This is Rose. Rose's flight is delayed again. At this point, she has walked the entire terminal twice and has memorized every news, headline, headline on the airport tv. All she really wants to do is take off. Good thing Rose has a library of free ebooks with Prime. Suddenly she's chasing bad guys, kissing hot vampires, solving murders, you know, living her best life. Free ebooks library. It's on Prime.

[Jonathan Fields]

I can't believe they're having a gender reveal for their dog.

[Tamila Floyd]

No, no, no. This is a breed reveal.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, so, yeah, they're finding out the.

[Tamila Floyd]

Breed of the puppy they're rescuing, so.

[Jonathan Fields]

They could just be spending all their money on, like, pet insurance.

[Tamila Floyd]

Instead, we got lemonade for Roscoe and it covered vaccines, microchipping. We saved 90% on vet bills. Oh, here we go.

[Jonathan Fields]

What do you think beige confetti means? I don't know.

[Tamila Floyd]

That we'll never get this Saturday back.

[Jonathan Fields]

Get a quote for any [e-mail] pet.

[Tamila Floyd]

Hey, I'm Trisha Hershberger, gamer, streamer and Amazon live host.

[Commercial Narrator]

I stream about tech, gaming and the.

[Tamila Floyd]

Stuff I actually buy right here with my community.

[Commercial Narrator]

And Amazon live makes it easy.

[Tamila Floyd]

Streaming, gameplay, scouting new gear, chatting and shopping all at the same time.

[Jonathan Fields]

That's my kind of multitasking.

[Tamila Floyd]

And it all happens on Amazon live.

[Commercial Narrator]

Shop on Amazon live by searching Amazon live in the Amazon shopping app and follow your favorite creators today.