Reclaim Your Free Time: Simple Strategies to Take Back Your Life | Jenny Blake

Summary

Podcast Summary: Good Life Project Episode: Reclaim Your Free Time: Simple Strategies to Take Back Your Life | Jenny Blake
Release Date: July 7, 2025
Host: Jonathan Fields
Guest: Jenny Blake
Duration: Approximately 90 minutes

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Introduction

In this episode of the Good Life Project, host Jonathan Fields engages in a deep conversation with Jenny Blake, author, podcaster, and expert in creating systems to reclaim free time. The discussion centers around strategies to reduce stress, eliminate busy work, and cultivate more meaningful and joyful activities in both personal and professional life.

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The Importance of Free Time

Jenny Blake begins by expressing her passion for systems and organization, highlighting the universal need for strategies to manage the overwhelming influx of tasks and communication channels. At [00:00], she remarks:

"I'm constantly feeling behind in what I call these Sisyphean systems of never ending inboxes. ... I think we all need strategies to deal with the crush of the inbound."

Jonathan Fields emphasizes the value of free time, less stress, and the ability to focus on what truly matters, setting the stage for a conversation about simplifying one's life through effective systems.

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Systems and Processes to Reduce Friction

Jenny Blake delves into the concept of systems and processes designed to minimize friction in daily life. She shares her experiences from her time at Google, where despite having a seemingly perfect job, she was overwhelmed by back-to-back meetings and endless emails. At [08:42], Jenny defines free time as:

"Free time is optionality choice. ... it's about creating more space in our calendar so that we have the choice of what to work on."

She advocates for automated and streamlined processes to handle mundane tasks, thereby freeing up mental and physical bandwidth for more meaningful endeavors. Practical examples include setting up recurring subscriptions for household essentials and automating service bookings to reduce daily friction.

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Redefining Work and Free Time

The conversation shifts to redefining traditional notions of work-life balance. Jonathan criticizes the binary thinking of work versus life, suggesting instead an intentional allocation of energy across various activities. He states:

"It’s about how work could be a beautiful, organic, intrinsic and joyful expression of life and it’s just sort of like this seamless thing."

Jenny agrees, sharing her perspective on how companies adopting a four-day workweek have shown that reduced hours can lead to increased productivity and employee satisfaction. She emphasizes the importance of aligning work structures with individual energy levels and strengths to prevent burnout.

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Time to Revenue Ratio

Jenny introduces the concept of the Time to Revenue Ratio, a metric that evaluates the efficiency of time spent in relation to the revenue generated. At [43:31], she explains:

"The time to revenue ratio means considering the revenue and how much of your time went into that. ... a thousand hours a year for $300,000 take home."

This approach encourages both individuals and business owners to assess not just financial gains but also the time investment required, promoting smarter system designs that prioritize both income and personal well-being.

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Mini Coaching Session: Reclaiming Free Time

A significant portion of the episode features a mini coaching session where Jonathan seeks Jenny's guidance on overcoming friction in his own projects. They utilize Jenny's free time framework, which consists of three key elements: Align, Design, and Assign.

1. Align: Identify how the project aligns with personal values, energy levels, and strengths.

   • Jonathan's Case: He identifies his project as deeply personal and meaningful, aligned with his values of authentic expression and creativity. However, he recognizes that his current workload constrains his energy to pursue this project effectively.

2. Design: Define the ideal outcome, desired impact, and the process to achieve it.

   • Desired Outcome: Complete a solid draft of his manuscript within a month without disrupting his businesses.

   • Impact: The manuscript aims to make a significant personal and emotional impact on its intended recipient, fostering deeper connection and understanding.

3. Assign: Delegate tasks and set clear responsibilities to ensure smooth execution.

   • Action Steps: Identify a suitable location for focused work, establish a communication plan with his team, and create a buffer in his production schedule to accommodate his absence.

Throughout the session, Jenny provides actionable advice, encouraging Jonathan to leverage his strengths—such as his efficient writing process—and to collaborate with his team to maintain business continuity during his focused work period.

Notable Quotes:

• Jenny Blake [53:13]: "Friction is anywhere ... making this area feel heavy and burdensome. Flow is that you are clicked in, you are working in your zone of genius."

• Jonathan Fields [21:05]: "The latest data shows that the same level of real high-level work can be done in significantly less time while respecting the humanity of the people doing the work."

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Overcoming Resistance to Systems

Jenny addresses common resistance to implementing systems, noting that many people hesitate not because they don't want free time, but because they find the initial setup daunting. She shares practical tips to make systems more user-friendly and maintainable, ensuring they become seamless parts of daily life.

At [13:09], Jenny advises:

"The best rules happen in the background ... the best systems are ones that you can’t help but use."

By integrating simple, automated solutions like subscription services and scheduled cleaning, individuals can reduce daily friction without feeling constrained by rigid structures.

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Balancing Energy and Avoiding Burnout

The discussion delves into the critical balance between energy expenditure and productivity. Jenny emphasizes the importance of monitoring one's energy levels and recognizing the signs of burnout. She shares her personal experiences of health setbacks as indicators of overcommitment and highlights the necessity of adapting work habits to align with changing energy reserves.

Key Insights:

• Energy Inventory: Regularly assess where energy is being spent and adjust activities to match available reserves.

• Trade-offs: Make conscious decisions about what to prioritize and what to let go, understanding that not all tasks are equally important.

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Conclusion and Final Insights

As the episode wraps up, both Jonathan and Jenny reflect on the journey of reclaiming free time through intentional design and system implementation. They underscore the transformative potential of aligning one's activities with personal values and strengths to foster a fulfilling and balanced life.

Jenny Blake’s Final Insight:

"A good life is the ability to be present and choose who we want to spend our time with and how and what to work on."

Jonathan Fields’ Takeaway:

"There is this fairly straightforward linear process ... there was probably because I didn't just have sort of a fairly straightforward process to just say this, then this, then this."

The episode concludes with encouragement for listeners to apply the discussed frameworks and strategies to their own lives, fostering a more intentional and joyful existence.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jenny Blake [00:00]: "I'm constantly feeling behind in what I call these Sisyphean systems of never ending inboxes."

• Jonathan Fields [07:47]: "I like the more expansive take that you have on a phrase that I think a lot of people would be like, oh that's my time to relax."

• Jenny Blake [27:47]: "... we all have the capacity to decide what we want to be bad at and what our trade-offs are going to be and then redesign the rules together."

• Jenny Blake [43:31]: "The time to revenue ratio means considering for the revenue and how much of your time went into that."

• Jonathan Fields [77:34]: "So, I'm going to tell Stephanie and start looking for a place and I have my marching orders."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of the Good Life Project offers valuable insights into reclaiming free time through effective systems and intentional living. Jenny Blake's expertise provides listeners with practical strategies to reduce daily friction, prioritize meaningful work, and maintain a healthy work-life balance. By applying the discussed frameworks, individuals can cultivate a life that is both productive and fulfilling.

Transcript

[Jenny Blake]

I'm constantly feeling behind in what I call these Sisyphean systems of never ending inboxes. So part of the free time obsession is my passion for systems and sort of geeking out about organization and structure is that I think we all need help. Like we need strategies to deal with the crush of the inbound.

[Jonathan Fields]

So what would you give to have more free time, less stress and more ability to do the things you love while knowing everything else is just handled? That is the promise of a powerful new body of work from today's guest and a dear friend of mine and my go to person whenever it comes to like figuring out how to simplify my life. Jenny Blake Jenny is an author, host of two podcasts, Free Time and Pivot, and a keynote speaker who loves helping people move from friction to flow through smarter systems. Her new book, Free Time Lose the Busy Work, Lose Love. Your business is quite literally life changing and that's whether you own your own business or you work for someone else. By the way, I actually featured Jenny in my last book, Sparked, because she's what I call an essentialist, meaning she lives and breathes to create order from chaos in the name of clarity and ease. Her mind works in ways that mine never has and never will. Jenny is world class at creating systems that give you back your life and the stunning volume of ideas and tools and processes and resources that she has developed and curated in Free Time along with the dashboard she's launched alongside it, it made me realize how much harder I've been making things in all parts of work and life and how much more automation and ease I could access and as a result, how much more time I could actually create and do the things that truly light me up. So I was super excited to invite Jenny to dive deeper into these ideas and methodologies and specific tools and resources to create more free time and joy in work and life and beyond. So excited to share this best of conversation with you and a quick note before we dive in so at the end of every episode, I don't know if you've ever heard this, but we actually recommend a similar episode. So if you love this episode at the end, we're going to share another one that we're pretty sure you're going to love too. So be sure to listen for that. Okay, on to today's conversation. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is Good Life Project.

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[Jonathan Fields]

Jenny Blake so good to be hanging out with you in this virtual container. We have had many, many, many, many conversations over the years as friends, as colleagues, as collaborators. We've had conversations on air, off air. I have seen you iterate through all sorts of fascinating variations of the way that you move into the world, both professionally and personally. In the early days on the professional side at Google, jumping out to build your own company, which you've been doing for, I guess about a decade now, and becoming an author, sharing a book that changed so many people's lives. Pivot, which is really about saying yes to the fact that life is a state of perpetual beta. Let's do it. Well, and now as we sit down to have this conversation, I think it's kind of interesting because you're hanging out in New York. I happen to be in Palm Springs, California, where I bounced out here with my wife to do a bit of work and we're staying a little bit longer and we've both sort of created this structure in our work and our lives that give us a certain amount of freedom to work when we want, to not work when we want, and to be in a lot of different places. Sometimes it Works really well. Sometimes it's a little bit more challenging. But you have devoted so much of your time to free time, which I think is kind of like an interesting thing to do, and it's almost become an obsession of yours. It's like, how do we do this thing where we have more space, more of the in between? And I guess part of my curiosity is, as you evolve, what you want to devote so much energy to, why has the idea of free time bubbled up to the surface for you and taken such a strong lead?

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah. Well, thank you for this amazing recap and I always, always love our conversations and connection 1 through line, through my time at Google, working in coaching, career development, leaving Google and navigating the choppy waters of solopreneurship. And then we've all gone through a tremendous amount of pivoting and change with this global pandemic. I kept seeing these patterns in myself and others, what I call the burdensome bees. People getting bored, burnt out, buried by bureaucracy or bottlenecked. And that goes for people running their own business or someone working in another business. And these burdensome bees drive me crazy. For the same reason that you wrote Sparked. We know how painful it is to feel stuck and stuck in place and to be bored or burnt out. And we all have so much complexity and uncertainty that we're already navigating, as you've written about so beautifully too, that my obsession, my essentialist need to create order from chaos is about freeing us. And I just, I know how painful it can be to feel stuck and unsure. And so yes, my obsession with free time is how do we really enjoy the time that we have? How do we be present, but also how do we have free time be this active verb, this muscle that we're building to continually free more and more of our time so we can do our best work, the work that sparks us and brings us alive.

[Jonathan Fields]

So here's my question. When you sort of position free time as this aspiration that we all want more and more and more of, are we countering that with a notion of anything that is not free time being not good?

[Jenny Blake]

I consider free time optionality choice. So in this definition, it's not necessarily, oh, let's all work less and less and less until we're only working an hour a week. It's actually about how can we create a little more space and spaciousness in our calendar in our week so that we have choice of what to work on. So that's kind of how I define free time, that it's Your choice and you get to decide. So it's not necessarily less, but it's less of the stuff that drains us. And it's just such a compliment to Sparked because Sparked is about doing the work that brings us alive. And in this sense, I would say that category probably many of your listeners and I would say, yeah, I would like to do less and less and less of minutiae and admin and the stuff that's super draining and that feels distracting from the work that I am passionate about.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense to me for the same reason that I'm really not a fan of the phrase work life balance. Because the underlying assumption with work life balance is that there are two polar opposites that need to be balanced against each other, that life is good, work is bad, and therefore you have to do this constant balancing against them rather than, well, what if work could be a beautiful, organic, intrinsic and joyful expression of life and it's just sort of like this seamless thing. So the notion of free time, I think being more like an intentional state, the ability to choose where you want to allocate your energies at any given time. And that may be something that we call work if it is just a joyful expression of something that we do purely for the feeling that it gives us. So I like the more expansive take that you have on a phrase that I think a lot of people would be like, oh, that's my time to relax.

[Jenny Blake]

Right? Yeah. I mean I'm thinking about when I was at Google, I had a perfect on paper job. I was working in career development and launching this global drop in coaching program called Career guru. And yet 80% of my time I was in meetings back to back meetings, Monday through Friday. I would walk through the halls with the laptop in my crook of my elbow, typing while I was in the elevator eating on the go and buried by email. Crushed by email. So much so that my friend and I, my friend Julie and I used to have email parties on Sunday afternoon. We would watch say yes to the Dress, we would have chocolate wine and pumpkin seeds, really random array and we would just try our best to hack away at email because there was no time to do it during the week. And working at this fast paced global company would just pile up. Now today, over 10 years later, we all. The number of inboxes that have propagated across LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, email, text messaging, TikTok, whatever platforms everybody is on is exponential. And I don't know how anybody can keep up. So part of My passion around all of this is that just because these new tech companies keep adding tools and inboxes to our lives, we have not fundamentally changed either how much time we have, how much attention and how much energy. The energy here is so important. I don't know about you, but like the last two years have tired me out. You know, I'm always trying to make the best of it. And yes, at some point I got my stuff together enough to work on a book, but that's my favorite type of work, is deep work. And I'm constantly feeling behind in what I call these Sisyphean systems of never ending inboxes. The same way running a household, there's never ending laundry and cleaning and dishes. So part of my the free time obsession, going back to my essentialist nature that you so generously featured and sparked, is my passion for systems and sort of geeking out about organization and structure, is that I think we all need help. We need strategies to deal with the crush of the inbound that I think so many of us are experiencing now amidst so much global turmoil and upheaval. Just as the baseline.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, completely agree with that. Yeah. And it's funny because the notion of systems and process and like having a system and a process for literally everything, from the moment you wake up, your eyes, the moment you go to bed, it feels so rigid. It feels so sort of like. But I don't want to be, I don't want to spend my entire day following rules. And yet the way that you approach it is. Well, it's not necessarily about saying everything that you do is bounded by rules. It's about saying that a certain amount of what you do is capable of being done in a much more automated and efficient and not thoughtless, but thoughtless way almost. And to the extent that we can actually make that happen, those systems and processes, they free us. They free up so much bandwidth, emotional, cognitive and actual physical bandwidth to go and make a choice about what else we want to do with that time. So it's a little bit of a contradiction to think that living in a very heavily ruled process and system based space could actually create a lot more freedom to just wander and not be so structured and rigid.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. And I think the best rules happen in the background, that you spend a little bit more time up front to design them and create them and then ideally they save you time over and over, far into the future. Because I know a lot of people feel allergic to the word systems and even structure process. Some people are already have already practically stopped listening. But actually, the best systems are ones that you can't help but use. So, for example, household items. I mean, this one's really simple and maybe by now more and more people do this, but put your toilet paper, paper towels, dish soap, et cetera on recurring subscription. Like, figure out the last few times you've ordered what was the time distance between them, and put them on automatic subscription. That way nobody has to remember, moving forward when to reorder these basic staple items or. I used to text a house cleaner. I used to just text every time I was ready to have her come. It was so inefficient because there was so much friction. I was always wondering, do we need her? Should we have her come? Is today a good day? Oh, does my husband, Michael, Is that okay with him? Let me run it by him. It was so much work that it just wasn't happening. And I was actually developing asthma that I hadn't had since I was a child because we had so much dust and dog dander. Finally, I found a service that is on a recurring day and time weekly. Set it and forget it. It's not on my mind anymore. So I'm not even just talking about in the work sense. I think there's a lot of adulting related stuff like this that if we just create a little bit of structure frees us because some of this stuff I don't think anybody is jumping to do, you know.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. You know, my sense is that the resistance isn't also that we don't want this, it's that we don't want to have to be the ones who figure it out and then make it happen. You know, it's the initial burden of, like, setting it all up that stops so many of us from saying yes to a lot of the ideas that you talked about. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Airbnb. So I recently stayed in this remarkable dome house in Colorado. Picture a geodesic wooden structure nestled in this tiny town in the mountains where the night sky puts on a light show that'll leave you speechless. The vastness of the open space, the silence of nature around, and this perfectly designed space creating a cocoon of tranquility as an explosion of stars. So this got me thinking. While you're out exploring these amazing places, your own home could be someone else's perfect getaway. That's what's beautiful about Airbnb hosting. It's not just about turning your home into additional income. It's about opening up possibilities when you're traveling. Your space could be earning extra income, helping other travelers create their own lifelong memories. So, ready to turn your next adventure into an opportunity? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host Good Life Project is sponsored by Gab. So here is a startling reality about our kids and screens. Teens now average nine hours a day on screenshots outside of school. That's essentially a full time job of scrolling and the impact is real. The US Surgeon General warns that kids spending more than three hours a day online are twice as likely to experience depression and anxiety. And this hits close to home. Our executive producer Lindsay was just telling me about trying to balance summer plans with her young kids and she wants to stay connected and know where they are, but without opening the door to endless apps. She got her 9 year old the gab watch 3e and it's exactly what they needed to gab has created this brilliant approach called Tech in Steps, phones and watches that grow with your child, offering just the right features at the right time. It's thoughtful, intentional technology that keeps kids connected while protecting their mental health. Ready to make a change? Visit gab.com goodlife and use the code goodlife for a special offer that's G-A-B-B.com goodlife or click the link in the show notes with a detailed agent directory.

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[Jenny Blake]

You've got other sites for that.

[Jonathan Fields]

Homes.com We've done your homework. Let's get granular because the way that you describe and you write about this, you get very specific about your work and the hours that you put in and revenue and all of this stuff and how Jenny from a decade ago lives a very, very different working life and life now based on your sort of like fierce commitment to systems and processes. So let's talk about some of these actual granular metrics in your life because they're a little bit jaw dropping and I think folks might hear them and think is that actually possible? You work an average of 20 hours a week. Tell me about this.

[Jenny Blake]

I honestly feel especially for business owners who are juggling a lot of. And I'm the primary earner for our household, so my 20 hours generates our income period. It's the sole source of income. And I find that 20 to 25 hours a week is what I can handle. I try to make them very focused. So no meetings on Mondays or Fridays. I only schedule calls and podcast interviews between about 11 and 3. And then I also segment by day. So on Wednesdays, that's my day that I interview other people for my podcasts. Thursdays are days where I meet with team members. Tuesdays are for random one off calls. And this just helps me get into the energy and the flow of that type of day so that I'm not feeling so frazzled switching from one thing to the next. I mean, things were different when I lived alone and I was single. But now having a husband and a dog and a business, I just find that I need more time to take care of myself, to ramp up and read in the morning, have a really focused four to five hours during the workday, take my dog out for a walk, spend some quality time with my husband, go to bed early enough to do it all again the next day. So I'm actually just awed by anyone who is working 40, 50, 60 plus hours a week because I think it's so challenging to stay healthy and rested and as you said, not necessarily balancing those other elements, but ensuring that these different parts of life get the attention that they need to thrive.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really interesting question because certain types of work require like shift work. I'm thinking about, you know, they're sort of like there is an endless number of tasks that need to be done. They're going to be piled up before you arrive for your shift. They're going to be there like long after and the next person is going to tag in and do it. And so a lot of people won't have the option of saying, I'm literally going to cut back on the number of hours that I work. But when you actually look at the work that's being done so often, the fact that the work week is what it is and has expanded over the last couple of decades also, it's actually not helping either us as individuals, as human beings, and it's not helping organizations. I mean, the latest data that I'm seeing is that actually, you know, the same level of actual real high level work can be done in significantly less time and simultaneously respect the humanity of the people who are doing this work.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah. More and More companies are piloting four day work weeks now. I'm reading it more and more in the news. And I love these companies that are willing to just try something. They can't say for sure whether it's going to work. And that was one of the silver linings of these last few years, is that everyone was catapulted into this work from home experiment. Not everybody, those who were fortunate enough to work from home, but a lot of companies had to think on their feet and move really quickly toward enabling their teams to work in a remote, distributed way. And I think that it showed everybody. Yes, pros and cons. There's a lot to like about the sweatpants life that, you know, I've been living for a while. And there's a lot that's really challenging about it. I mean, as we record this, I'm in a enclosed studio downtown in New York because my home is so chaotic that I was pulling my hair out with trying to record things like podcast interviews with a dog barking, doorbell ringing, toilet flushing in the background. It just drove me nuts. But I appreciate that we're all getting a little bit more creative about envisioning what's possible and what's required. And going back to this question, how can we do more of our best work? And I find that with companies, there's no one person at the top who wants to create a culture of burnout necessarily. I mean, sometimes, yes, there's truly toxic work environments, but you know, even just going back to my Google experience or I worked at a startup before that, no one was trying to create a culture of burnout and a culture of all day, every day wall of meetings or the crush of email, but it just kind of happens. And this is where I think it is so interesting. Like you said, how many focused hours do we really need in a day? And if we're not just counting on button seats, time, oh, I have to be sitting in front of my computer precisely from 9 to 5, Monday through Friday. What I find, having had more flexibility as a business owner, is if I just start and don't stop for five hours, I don't really need breaks in between. I'm not procrastinating, I'm not jumping on social media. I like that five focused hours because then it sets me free in the afternoon. And as one of my clients said to me in the afternoon, I don't even know my own name. Like, if you want to talk about sparked in a broad sense of work, but even like sparked within a 24 hour circadian rhythm, like, I'm super on in the morning and in the afternoon, I'm a disaster. I don't think any company, no one should want me working for them during that window where I'm just a zombie. It's pointless. So I would so much rather consolidate that focus and do better work in a shorter time frame.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense to me. What is it? Was it Perrito's law that says every task expands or contracts to accommodate the amount of time? Parkinson's Law to accommodate the amount of time that you allocate towards it? So we've kind of figured, well, if the traditional work week is 40 to 50 hours, just because that's how long it takes to get the thing done, you have to ask, well, have we actually just expanded how long it actually takes to accommodate the amount of time that society has assigned to it requiring? When in fact, if we follow Parkinson's Law and said, well, okay, so we're going to. Here's the invitation and the challenge. We're going to tell you that you now only have 25 hours to do what you used to do in 40 or 45 hours. The bad news is you have to figure out how to do it. The good news is all the other time, you get back to yourself and you get paid the exact same amount. How many people would say yes to that invitation and challenge? I think it's really fascinating. Like, if you're listening to this now, would you say yes to that or would you say no to that? I would be really curious to know how many people would actually say, oh, yeah, I would be all in on that. Because I know that of the eight or nine or 10 hours that I'm sitting in front of a desk, even if it's my desk at home, I'm really only functional for like three to five of those. And I could completely do this. And then I literally buy my way into the ability to just do anything I want with the rest of the time.

[Jenny Blake]

And then I bet if you asked the companies as well, and you said, would you rather A or B, would you rather have your team members work a 40 hour typical work week that we invented during the factory era, or would you rather have them work half the time but be five times more strategic, five times in a greater state of flow, five times happier, more engaged, more productive, which one would you choose? And I bet that most of those companies would choose option B. And I know for myself and my team, I crave that myself and my team members can work on the most strategic, highest impact tasks and projects for the business and do them well. I crave this. And it's actually quite frustrating when any one of us gets so buried by minutiae and detail that the big things are falling through the cracks. That's the real concern. The other part of this I think is so important to talk about is trade offs. So when I say I work 20 to 25 hours a week, I could easily work 40 to 50 hours and be phenomenal at email and be the most responsive person that everybody knows. But as you know, jf, I'm very slow. I put the snail back into email. I'm very slow with email and I'm very slow even with text messages. I treat texts like email. I'll respond a week or two later and the people that know and love me and are willing to stick around for that just know that's how I am. Because it kind of frustrated me that as texting and things like Slack started to become more ubiquitous, just because our phone pings, we're expected to jump. And who said that my turnaround time for a text message was going to be instantaneous? Why? Just because the medium demands that? I don't agree. I didn't sign on to that. But yet that's what we come to do as a collective. So I like that certain phones have features now saying, oh, Jonathan is in do not disturb mode or Jonathan has notifications turned off. That makes me happy when I see that. Or the fact that you could even write a little autoresponder for your text messages saying I'm driving or I'm doing deep work right now. And I just think that we all have the capacity to A, decide what we want to be bad at and what our trade offs are going to be and then B, kind of redesign the rules together. Even one off with friends and just let them know what to expect. And I always will tell friends, don't worry, it's nothing personal. I'm just a really slow texter. And that's a trade off I choose to make because otherwise I might not even have a book that we could sit here to be talking about because my attention would be so fractured and distracted.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, and I love that you're also, you're broadening this out and you're saying, yes, part of this is about work. But it's also these are the rules for life too, these assistance processes for life. So the expectations aren't just for your boss or your teammates and stuff like it's for your friends. It's for your family. And we've fallen into these expectations without ever making conscious decisions that that was the thing we wanted to do. It just became the default state. So we never made a conscious decision that said every time a text or an email hits our inbox or our Device, we have 30 seconds to respond. It's just that became the culture. And we felt like, well, we need to adhere to the general expectations of the culture. So this is what we do without ever asking the question, well, but do we really need to? And what am I getting from adhering to this culture of instant and then what am I giving up? Like, what humanity am I leaving behind by doing this? And also what would happen, I think we're terrified of saying, but what if I basically just let everybody know I set expectations that says this actually is not going to happen. When you're interacting with me, there's no disrespect, but this is the way that I need to function in order to be okay in the world and to actually flourish.

[Jenny Blake]

And there were times where I genuinely worried, let's say even when you would text and if it took me a while to respond, I would worry, maybe Jonathan is not going to want to be my friend anymore. Like, maybe he just thinks he's going to think I'm ridiculous. He's not going to want to be my friend. And I went through that. I still go through that sometimes with people. But on the whole, it's just what I need to do. And what I find is that when we can have these conversations and level setting, if you will, that other people get ideas too. And it can be inspiring to hear the ways that other people are protecting their time and their attention and their energy. Because one of the questions I'm always asking is who is profiting from the pressure you feel? Who profits from having a never ending inbox that has your attention all day long? The companies that are serving ads on the side of those emails, or the people who are emailing you with their agenda, not your strategic, big creative projects. Who's profiting from you being on your phone, looking at texts all day, picking up your phone an average of 150 times a day, if not more. So I just always check that sense of pressure and micro guilt that I'm feeling. And I wonder who designed this and why. I don't think that nobody designed the factory system or these devices or many inboxes to be good for our health. You know, like, I just. That was never put into the conversation is what would help each individual absolutely flourish. And thrive and be physically fit and well connected to their friends, family and community. Certainly not being on a device all day or sitting behind the desk all day. So this is our opportunity now, especially with so much change and so much being shaken up. I think we all have this opportunity to draw some boundaries again. And you even talked about. It was so inspiring to me reading an Uncertainty several books ago for you. But you were also saying that some of the most creative people are super structured outside of their creative time because it kind of corrals the chaos of life that gives them more attention and energy for those windows that they really do want to work on their craft and their art.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, some of the most innovative creative people in the world are massively ritualized in everything but the work because it just takes all the bandwidth out of having to allocate anything to it. They don't have to worry about it. And it also creates a certain amount of certainty where they feel grounded and tethered and their anxiety state is they know what's coming and they know how it's going to be handled. So they have a baseline lower level of anxiety because they know when they do the work, their job is to go to a space where there's a high level of uncertainty and the stakes are high and there's a lot of groundlessness and they have to be sustained there for really next level innovation and creativity to happen. So they figure out ways to be able to breathe more easily everywhere but that space. So you referenced this moment also. And I think it's really interesting because there is this massive reexamination of what we want from work and from life that's happening now. There's a reckoning and there's a reclamation that we are all in the middle of. But as you're sort of like as we're talking about this, what I'm realizing is I think a lot of people are re examining the big picture. Like what is the work that I'm doing? What is the organization I'm doing? What is the job or the role or the title that I'm doing? And then making giant changes. The great resignation. We're seeing 60, 70 million people bail and go and do something else. But I wonder if that reexamination is getting down to the more granular level of no matter what I leave behind and no matter what I then say yes to and step into. Am I also looking at the structures and the system and the process and the expectation of me being always on in this new context? Am I reexamining and reimagining that? Or am I just changing jobs and roles and titles and companies and offices? Because if we don't get to that level of granularity, we may find ourselves doing something that's moderately more interesting in a different office. And the novelty is kind of cool and new. But if so much of the structural stuff that brought us down before just gets repeated, we're going to end up feeling the same way.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah. And this is, I think, a huge source of burnout is where we're sort of operating against our own energy needs. And then we just do that for long enough and literally burn out. Our adrenals get fried. I've done this so many times, and it's like sometimes I think burnout comes from a genuine passion. We want to do all the things and we want to do, do well. And. And I'll speak for myself. Like, sometimes I will give everything I have to a certain project and then totally collapse on the other side because I just didn't monitor my energy well. But it's hard to know in the moment. And so I think there's. There's something happening now as well, around permission. And I remember, especially during 2020, just looking at what was I secretly relieved that got permit taken out of my life and my schedule. And I was actually, I live in New York City, as you mentioned. I was so relieved that I didn't have to consider all these plans all the time. I didn't realize how tiring that had become. And you and I can share this, that we're like mega introverts. And leaving the house is a huge effort sometimes. But the other day I got invited to a book launch party. And this is a person I love, and I was so excited to celebrate her book. But the thought of putting on actual clothes and leaving the house, like, the level of resistance I was experiencing was just so high. And part of that is just the inertia of the last few years, but the other part is just noticing we all have such different energy stores. And I think that goes for different. Certainly as we age, it goes with different phases of life. It goes with different situations in our household. Caring for young children, caring for elderly parents. I mean, so much, so many dynamics are happening for all of us. And when you mention the structural factors of the big picture of our work, it occurs to me that it's such an important time for each of us to take an energy inventory. And there is no set amount. I find this really interesting. Like, there's a Lot of. I experience a lot of compare and despair when I will compare myself to a friend who has seemingly limitless energy and I don't. And I have to be really honest with myself. Part of the reason that I wrote Free time and that I say I don't work full time, I work free time, is I just can't anymore. I am noticing I'm 38. That's young in the grand scheme of things. But there's no way I can work the way that I worked when I was in my mid-20s. I don't want to and I can't do it. I burn out too quickly. I just. In the fall, the way I knew I was doing too much, I got a massive ear infection that was 10 out of 10, pain, unceasing for five days. A month later I got bronchitis. So these were these signals where my body was saying, you've got to slow down, you have to pace yourself. And so sometimes that burnout feeling and getting sick or having our body send these messages is a signal that we need to change and we must adapt. And we just don't all have the exact same amount of energy reserves consistently like a machine through our entire life. And I think acknowledging that is so important, especially during these times. And I don't know, I guess I would be curious too, Jonathan, your relationship to that. Because sometimes I find that, you know, there's that saying, don't write a check that your body can't cash. Sometimes I find that my mind, in a way, my creative energy or my intended capacity is just so much bigger than my actual capacity. But it's really hard to figure out exactly what that is because it is changing all the time.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I've learned over the years that actually my mind is way tougher than my body. I've sort of trained and developed the ability to push myself psychologically, emotionally, cognitively to a pretty extreme point. And sometimes you just have to go there because it's the nature of what you're doing. If you're launching something or whatever, maybe there's a short term window where it can. You're not going to be sort of like in this quote, like beautifully centered, balanced place, sort of the nature of the beast. But the pendulum has to swing back. And if it stays out at that hinterland for too long of extremity, then my mind has the ability to stay out there longer than my body. My body starts to slowly check the boxes of bringing me to my knees until I am completely curled up and fetal on the floor. And my brain has to listen and say, oh, it's time. And I wish I could say that. You know, in my maturity, I've gotten way better at it. I've gotten a bit better at it, but I still have those moments where I have to constantly check in with my body and say, what's it telling me? Because I've learned that my body is actually much more the canary in the coal mine for me. It's much more the true tell of whether I'm pushing too hard, I'm going too fast, I'm not being smarter. What I'm doing, my brain psychologically can take a lot more, but my body really starts to take a hit. So I'm learning more to treat that as an important intellectual data point in understanding how I'm living my life and whether the choices I'm making are okay. One of the things that pops into my head also when we have this conversation is, so let's say you're working in an ecosystem with other people, whether you're in a job or whether you have your own business and you have a team, whatever it may be, and you're like, this is my new value set. This is really important to me. I need to reimagine the way that I'm doing things and build a lot of systems and processes so now I can work 20 hours a week instead of 40 or 50. I think there's an assumption that pops into a lot of people's head when they hear that, well, how nice for you. But now, basically what you're really just doing is you're shifting the burden onto everyone around you because somebody's got to pick up the slack. And in fact, when you look at your team, that's the first proof point that that's not true at all. In fact, you have your team follow all of these same ideas and principles and they work less also. And somehow all the work is still getting done.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. This is so important to me. And this is something I call heart based business. I know you've talked a lot about this over the years too. I can't stand the thought that, oh, the owner gets to optimize their life, or the owner, the manager, the boss, whomever gets to optimize and be so light and free. Meanwhile, the team is burning out, working around the clock, the owner is this tyrannical devil wears Prada boss, and the team is working on stuff that they hate. No, absolutely not. So I really think that the whole ecosystem matters. And for me, heart Based business is, it matters just as much how the owner experiences the work and their time, how each team member, how clients, community members, everybody counts. I'm always looking for how can we work with joy and ease for the highest good of all involved. So like you said, my team, I work with three to five people at any given time and they work about five hours a week, maximum 10 when we're in a big launch. And I make it very clear that if I ever send a message on nights or weekends, you don't have to respond until your next work window. Some people like working on the weekends. I don't care, I don't care when they work. But I'll only mark something urgent if absolutely necessary. Something is on fire and going to break. And I think it's really important to be considerate of not creating fire drills for everybody else. You know, there's this phrase around, I think it relates to codependency. But like, your emergency is not my problem and I'm really mindful of that of the owner. It's so easy for people in positions of power to like create emergencies with the work and I think that's poor planning. So it's my job. Like with my, I have a podcast, I have two podcasts as well. And I remember like if I ever didn't follow our process and get ahead and I was going to record something at the very last minute, who's going to edit that episode? Me. Because I did not want to create a scramble for my team just because I didn't get my stuff together in time. So that's, that's me being stubborn about it. Maybe some people would still press that on their team, but there was an example. We had a launch and I had a new person working with me who had just come from over a decade working in a really fast paced startup and the doors were closing on this launch, the doors were closing at midnight and I went to bed at like 8pm as I do my grandma hours. And someone emailed right that evening and she wrote to me and she said, oh, somebody emailed, the doors are going to close. Do we need to jump in and respond? And I said, no, it's okay, just respond in the morning like it's past our work hours. And she did and she wrote back, she said, sorry, Doris, you know, we didn't get back to you, but here are the answers to your questions and if you still want to enroll, we're happy to have you. And this person totally appreciated it. They ended up signing up, but my team Member was shocked. She could not believe that I wasn't staying in front of my computer until midnight. She just, it was so flabbergasted her that way of working. But it kind of sets the example for everybody, including the people who are signing up for any potential programs.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, and it also sort of like, it demonstrates that like if this is, it's not about time, it is about how you use that time. You introduce a new metric also, which I think brings, is an interesting thing to explore, time to revenue ratio suggesting that you optimize not just for money, which so many of us do. Both. Personally, I want to optimize to make the greatest income or the greatest living possible, but also for ease and at the same time and create this constant balancing. So tell me more about this metric because I'm kind of fascinated by it.

[Jenny Blake]

I just find it so interesting that on the P and L profit and loss statement, you know, we have gross earnings, we have operating expenses and then net profit. And in the business press you might hear about entrepreneurs who are making millions of dollars or tens of millions, but nobody talks about a, the operating expenses for whatever earnings that they're claiming. Oh, I run a eight figure business and we earned $10 million last year. Great. But did it cost you 11 million to generate that 10? We don't know. You're not telling us. Similarly, are you working around the clock, burning out and with no time for your family and missing your kid's birthday, you know, what's going on behind the scenes to earn that 10 million? What is it costing you in terms of time, AKA life force? It's your life and none of us know how much of it we get. And so I think it's very interesting. Like even Amazon. Great. Bezos is a kajillionaire, but he's completely burning out the people in the warehouses who are working these insane hours at an ungodly pace with very little breaks, trying to keep up with robots. It's absolutely crushing. So great. Should we be so proud of Jeff Bezos? Yes, he has tons of innovative ideas, but at what cost to the people who are working in the warehouses making it all possible? And so the time to revenue ratio means considering for the revenue. And this, this could apply if you're on salary too. Doesn't matter for the salary or the revenue that you brought in, let's say last year, how much of your time went into that? How many hours in the year? Like in my case, it's about a thousand hours a year for, let's say my five year average, 300,000 take home. And so you can calculate time to revenue ratio for yourself or if you're a business owner for your team. So let's say you're working in a business instead of just looking at oh yeah, how much did we earn? You could say, well, how much team member time did that require? And not just how much did I pay my team, how much time was involved. So this I think is a metric that could help us all design smarter systems and actually consider time as a factor in terms of earning. The last thing I'll say on this is I shared what I call them the million dollar bureaucratic client question. I think it's an interesting thought exercise. The way I pose it in the book is if someone offered you a million dollars to work around the clock, absolutely crushing 100 hour weeks for a really bureaucratic nightmare client for one year, no cancellation allowed, would you do it? Some people I spoke with said, absolutely, yes. I worked this way for far less pay. I'm at a stage in my life where I need the money and yes, I would take it, but not everybody would. There were people who had gotten through cancer diagnoses, who had gotten through health scares, who said, no, no amount of money is worth me working that way because I could die halfway into that year. Don't mean to be morbid, but that's true. So I think it's interesting for each of us to consider that question. And is there a number on a check? What is that number that would be worth sacrificing our health and our attention and time with our family and loved ones. And I think at least just getting clear on what our numbers are in this regard, this time to revenue ratio can help us, just as we talked about with the physical signals, can help us see when we're on track and when we're veering off track and maybe need to pare back or change directions.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, and a big part of that is you actually have to know what your time is. And I think that's where there's a huge miss here. Because when you're picking up your device 150 times a day and like, oh, it's just like five seconds answering this five seconds or scanning this, that 150 just kind of feels like, oh, it's the occasional glance here, there, there. But at the end of the day, if you multiply each one of those out by a minute or so or something like that, it's 150 minutes, two and a half hours, it's all of a sudden now we're like, oh, wait, we're actually talking about hours out of the day. So how do we even try and optimize for these things? I sense, and I'm curious what your experience has been. The bigger, earlier step is that we just don't have any genuine sense of how much time we're spending doing different things, especially when it's fragmented into these microbursts spread out over hundreds of teeny little, seemingly inconsequential moments or snippets throughout the day. But when you look at it cumulatively, it can be kind of brutalizing. So how do we own what we're truly doing and how much time and energy it's taking from us before we even figure out, like, how to reimagine that time and energy?

[Jenny Blake]

I use an app called Rescue Time. It's always running in the background on my computer. And I try to stay really disciplined of not doing work on my phone. I know it's possible, and every now and then I do, but that actually helps me keep a separation of work and the rest of my life. So when my computer is open, I'm only working on it. And in fact, my husband Michael, when we were early in our relationship, he would get so perplexed when I absolutely refused to open my laptop for us to watch a show. I was just like, absolutely not. No. But this thing is staying closed because I had such an association with work. But that means that when the laptop is open, Rescue time is on and it's tracking in the background. Some people suggest keeping a time journal. Who will do that? I don't know. I can't even bring myself to do that. And I'm like, obsessed with these topics. Something like Rescue Time. I looked and my data for 2020. I spent 200 hours on Zoom calls because it was like the year of zoom, you know? And then one of my next biggest activities was email. So I think instead of trying to look at the micro, I'm not trying to optimize in 15 minute increments. Nothing like that. I find that when we are pulled by big, meaningful projects, we want to work on them. We actually want to block off the distractions. And I use these little $10 for a packet of foam hangers that I hang on my door that actually tells Michael, the only other person in my house, what I'm doing and whether it's okay to interrupt or not. I think that when we have a draw, when we have something big and compelling we're working on, we're less drawn to Even want to pick up our phone during that window. But those windows become more concentrated. So for me, with my time trade offs and as you said, really trying to reckon with how it's actually being spent, if I were to look at my rescue time and see that my number one activity in a year was email, I would probably be a little sad because it meant that I did not tackle a giant project. Now giant projects are what bring me joy. That's my sparketype. I don't know if that's for everybody or not. Maybe some people would actually just thrive being an email because it means they're communicating, making connections, building community. It's awesome. That's cool. There's like I have no judgment here, but I would want to see in my data, I wrote my books in Google Docs primarily and in Notion, that's the operations hub where I run my business. I would want to see the number one activity is Google Docs, you know, is something on my computer that represents me doing my best work. And then only in third place should be like email and then zoom and things that are more fragmented on the whole.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, and I'm right there with you. Being a maker, I'm always trying to optimize for like the things that allow me to be just generative, you know. And for me, like you said, for some people that might actually be email, it might be like the conversation is their art, you know, for me it's not, you know, for me I need to kind of go into my cave. So I'm always looking for that metric too. You introduce a framework, sort of like this guiding structure for us. Because I think a lot of people listening and not probably nodding along thinking like, well ye, I want more free time. All of this makes sense. I spend way too much time in the minutiae and all the yada yada. But what now? How do I actually start to operationalize this in my life, in my work, in my business? You introduce what you call the free time framework with these three key elements and then some sub elements under that. Walk me through this framework because I think it becomes the model for us to all say, yes, this sounds interesting. And now here's how we actually start to to put these ideas to work in our lives.

[Jenny Blake]

The main diagnostic is where are you experiencing friction and where are you experiencing flow? And once we identify a friction area, then we can walk through the free time framework, align design, assign to reduce friction and move toward greater flow.

[Jonathan Fields]

Got it.

[Jenny Blake]

So I don't know if you're interested, but we could do a little mini mini coaching around this if you want.

[Jonathan Fields]

And maybe let's also like, tell me what you mean by friction and flow, because I think it makes sense to get specific there.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes, friction is anywhere in your life or work where you feel drained, distracted, heavy, you're procrastinating, it's dragging you down. The friction is that there's just something getting in the way and making this area feel heavy and burdensome. And then flow is time is flying, you're happy, you don't even notice the clock. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi describes it as almost a near ecstatic state of bliss where you don't recognize time passing. And so flow is that you are clicked in, you are working in your zone of genius or on your biggest strengths and you're doing great work. And research shows that we are five times more productive when we're in a flow state than not.

[Jonathan Fields]

Got it. Okay, that resonates with me. So then, yeah, I'm going to take you up on your invitation to do a little mini intervention here. Then let's work with your free time framework and we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life project is sponsored by Nutrafol. So summer is here. Bringing those moments filled with gatherings and memories and yes, lots of photos and exposure to other people. Reminded me of a conversation that I had with Stephanie recently about her five year journey with Nutrafol, Women's Balance. She was mentioning how just how different she feels now compared to those early days of menopause when hair changes and shedding were just really affecting her. And Nutrafol's clinically tested formulas are thoughtfully created for specific life stages and needs. Because everyone's hair wellness journey is different, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GoodLife. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code good life that's nutrafol.com or just click the link in the show notes Promo code Good Life.

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[Jonathan Fields]

So what comes to mind for me right now? So, you know, like I'm, I'm a maker, I love to make things and one of my really prime channels of expression is writing. And I've wanted to sort of be diving into a large scale writing project for a while now. It's all friction and no flow. And I've written books, I've written big, big pieces of work many times over. So I know the process and right now it's just not happening. I kind of even know, I know the next thing that I want to really start to say yes to. And I'm getting massively distracted by a lot of other things. And granted there are other things going on. I run two companies now, so I can't just stop things. But also there's not a whole lot of efficiency in the parts that I'm involved in. I'll say the parts that our essentialist producer is involved in is very efficient, but when I get my hands in it, everything tends to break. So I would love to actually devote myself to the next big writing project. And I'm experiencing just sort of like nonstop friction right there. Is that the type of thing that would be interesting to dive into?

[Jenny Blake]

Oh, yeah, definitely. And I appreciate you sharing and being open to doing this and just sharing with all of us, because I think it's also easy. I'm a longtime listener of your podcast. It's easy to think that those who have podcasts or show up as the expert guests have it all figured out. And I just love that you're open to sharing this. So it sounds like the writing project, it's something. There's a gap because it's something you really want to do and work on and have flow around. But it's, as you said, currently totally loaded with friction.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, a hundred percent.

[Jenny Blake]

How would you rate your energy on a scale of 1 to 10? Let's say 1 is just total and utter friction and 10 is flow. What's your current rating?

[Jonathan Fields]

I would say somewhere in the middle. All right, I'm going to say Tim Ferriss says, take seven out of your rating scales. Exactly. So I'm going to give it a six, which is interesting for me to assign because from the outside looking in, you're like, there's huge amounts of work being done, huge amounts of things being produced and created and put into the world. But at the same time, I'm definitely experiencing, I feel a sense of friction and a certain sense of in and out, of burnout or overwhelm, even though I kind of know I have enough of a mindset practice to be able to zoom the lens out and get meta and be like, oh, you're in this state right now. Oh, you're to actually understand, to look down into myself and understand where I am, but I'm still there. So clearly I'm not doing what I need to do to create change in that state.

[Jenny Blake]

Well, and as you said, there's so much going on in a bigger picture sense, in your business and with what you're juggling. And yet this writing project is like fruit that's hanging on the tree. You see it, you want to pluck it, but something's preventing you. So I like how specific it is, and I like how it's just zoning in on this one thing and maybe that can inform the rest. So let's start with the align stage of this. And align is all about is this aligned with your values, your energy, and Your strengths before we even optimize how you're going to tackle it. So let's look at values. What is important to you about this writing project?

[Jonathan Fields]

So this is a deeply personal writing project. Something I'm not going to share what it is because I don't know if it will ever be made public, but it is deeply personal, deeply meaningful. It's different than anything I've ever written before. And it's to a specific person who I love dearly. And so, yeah, it is something that I would love to write. I feel compelled to write. And it's a genuine expression of who I am, what I believe in the world, my deepest held values. And when I think about me just sitting there writing it, to me, that's an energized state. But I'm not doing that. So I'm not feeling the energy of it.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah, but you did light up when you started to talk about it, and I had a feeling it was going to be. The subject will be top secret, but your face changed. Like you said, it's for someone who's really important to you and it's deeply meaningful and just super connected to who you are and that there's something in you that has this message or this subject that you are really excited about.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, it matters. Like, it really matters. And I think also over the last few years, like, we all have the sense of we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring, you know, and like, I want this out of me no matter what tomorrow's gonna bring, and yet I'm not doing it.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah, well, we'll get there. We'll get there. So I'm hearing values of meaningful self expression, the maker in you that loves to take something and create. What other values are at play in this writing project? I mean, like you said, you have so much else going on in the business. So what other values of yours does this project hit?

[Jonathan Fields]

I don't know if it's a value, but authentic expression, creativity, honesty, you know, like writing this is something where I want to write. Where this is not, there's no fluff. It is just raw, pure and honest and real and human. And sometimes not clean or pat in any way, but it's true. Wow.

[Jenny Blake]

Already I'm so excited for this. And these are your gifts. Authentic, raw, unfiltered, truly cut to the core. Communication. This is absolutely in your zone of genius.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I agree. And actually sort of like the what I want to write is stepping into that on a different level also.

[Jenny Blake]

That's so exciting. Okay. So then let's look at energy. When you think about stepping into that at a whole different level than you ever have before, how does it make you feel?

[Jonathan Fields]

If I, like, put myself, if I close my eyes and I imagine myself actually doing this, I just want to do that and nothing else. Just like, I want to open my eyes and just like, you know, like, and write that it feels good. Like, it gives me, like, I feel like that. That is. It'll be really hard to do, but also really energizing and rewarding.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. Like, it's calling you forth. And it's interesting that your reaction is actually, this is the only thing that truly feels energizing. If I could drop everything else and work on this and have the space for it, that would be super energizing.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. And in fact, I've often fantasized about that. Whether it's this project or other writing project is literally just taking a month. Because I think I can do this entire thing in a month and putting everything else on autopilot, earning my way into it in some way, shape or form. That's kind of what I'm thinking about right now. Maybe that's where we're going. So that I literally can just tap out for a month and just wake up in the morning, take care of my body, my relationships, and write this thing.

[Jenny Blake]

It's really interesting that you say that because in a way, you said two really crucial things here. You just need a month. Like you didn't say, oh, this is a three year project, a magnum opus, a decade long. No, you need a month. That's kind of your energy, your anticipated energy need in a way, but as you said, earning your way into it that right now it feels like you haven't earned your way in yet because you're juggling so much else. So tell me about where is your energy getting blocked? Like, there's a reason that you haven't already set aside this month. And you're, as you said, even though you want to work on this, you just can't seem to start. So what is dragging your energy down or away from it?

[Jonathan Fields]

I think just the volume of projects. You know, right now there's a lot on my plate where, like I said, I run two companies. Some folks know that, some folks don't. So we produce a podcast twice a week, which is awesome. We have a new one that is like entering the world probably as we have this conversation, which is another very large lift. And we have a second company that develops and deploys the full body of work around the Sparketypes and that's effectively in startup mode. So any company in startup mode tends to need a lot more love and is under resourced until we sort of hit a certain tipping point. So as I'm saying this, there are two storylines in my head. One is yes, that's your truth. And two is yes. And is it really? Does every startup have to function this way or have I just not done the work to reimagine a lot of structure and process to make everything that I'm doing now happen, but in a much more humane way, both to me and those around me?

[Jenny Blake]

It almost seems like in your mind you have to choose, whereas what I just heard you say was actually I need to step out of the businesses for a month, that it's not forever. Yes, they are in startup mode and they do need you to an extent. But that if we ask it as a more open ended question, how can I free up my energy for this writing project for a month that at least then it's an open ended question. They're not just directly playing tug of war.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. And in fact there's evidence that I can do that because three years ago I took the better part of a month off to go out to rural Pennsylvania and work with the luthier and build a guitar. And in theory then I was just as time compressed as I am now, but I knew it was coming because I actually committed to it like six months in advance. I paid the money to do it and then I made sure that in those six months we sort of like front loaded everything and set up everything because I knew it was happening. And I actually even roped a friend in to make the same commitment with me. So I knew I was also beholden to him. So I couldn't break this promise to me or to my friend. And there was money already committed. So it almost like it became this forcing function for me to reverse engineer what needs to happen to buy myself the ability to do this, which I haven't done with his writing project. So it's kind of interesting to me.

[Jenny Blake]

And in hindsight, was the guitar project worth it?

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh my God, like a thousand times over.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah. As your friend, I know this is like one of the highlights when I would go to your house and see the guitar there and see you strum on it. And didn't KC strum on that very guitar for your GLP intro music?

[Jonathan Fields]

He did. And yeah, in fact the. The GLP theme music is him playing something that he wrote on the guitar that I built and kt, for those who don't know, is a dear friend and sort of member of our community.

[Jenny Blake]

So, in a way, not only did it completely light you up and energize you, but it became creative fuel. So this writing project could help and serve the business and your other projects in ways you don't yet see, the least of which being your energy, which is vital to everything else.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I don't disagree.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, let's talk about strengths. This is kind of. We could go multiple places with this, and I know we want to keep this to a mini session, but what do you think your biggest strengths are as it relates to either tackling this writing project or even strengths that you have that you could bring to being able to step aside from the business for a month in order to do it?

[Jonathan Fields]

Strengths as a writer is just whatever craft I've developed over the years to be able to say what I want to say with language that I feel conveys what's in my head. Occasionally I'm able to do that. So I think there's definitely that as essential strength. I would also. It's weird to say, but consider another strength. Just that I've developed a different lens on life and experiences and a different take, a different way to see and synthesize common experiences that I think help with this. And when I'm writing, I actually, when I create the space to do it, I'm really efficient. I work very quickly. That's why I said 30 days. I could do this if I had to set aside just that. I write very quickly. So strength is also the speed at which I create because I've been doing it for so long now. In terms of having the businesses function on the side, it's less about my strengths and more about the people that I have in place around me and their strengths and their commitment and ability to create systems and process that allow things to function. And that's been our everyday. Is that those folks keep the machine running so that I don't have to do a lot of that.

[Jenny Blake]

And it's interesting because at the start you said, wherever you get involved, the systems fall apart a little bit.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, yeah. Like, the rule in both companies is, like, don't let Jonathan touch anything with, like, a system, a process, a plug, or a battery, because I tend to break everything.

[Jenny Blake]

So, in fact, stepping aside for a month could enable team members to really double down on their strengths and strengthen the two businesses while you have your hands out of the honey jar.

[Jonathan Fields]

Entirely possible.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay. I also love that you said yes You've been writing your whole career, and efficiency is a strength. So in a way, you said, you gotta earn your way into this. But you could be confident that if you were to go into a completely unplugged month, you would come out with something substantial, and that would be far better than this constant friction and tug and pressure you're feeling now while trying to do it at the same time as doing everything else.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, I definitely feel that way.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, so let's move on to the second stage design.

[Jonathan Fields]

So just to put a cap on it, then.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

That was about the align. Like stage one align. We talked about values, we talked about energy, and we talked about strengths.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. Is this aligned? Like, maybe we would have come to the realization it's not the time for you to work on this at all, but your energy and your values, it's completely aligned with what lights you up, what you're great at. You. Oh, my goodness. I think I wish we all could spend a month and come out with something as meaningful as I know you will. So it seems super aligned. Nothing in your energy was saying that it's not the time or the not the right project.

[Jonathan Fields]

Cool.

[Jenny Blake]

So then now we can be intentional about design. So design covers ideal outcome, impact, and then we'll design the process. So, like, how we free you from your business in order to do this. So what is your ideal outcome? If you were to go away for a month, what would you want to come back with?

[Jonathan Fields]

A solid, let's call it, draft of a manuscript. And again, I'm not sure whether this ever sees the light of day as a commercial piece of work, but I still want it to be sort of like a complete piece of work.

[Jenny Blake]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Fields]

So I would say the outcome would be a solid draft of a manuscript.

[Jenny Blake]

Beautiful. And what would be your ideal outcome for the two businesses?

[Jonathan Fields]

The ideal outcome was that nobody would know I was gone. They would function as effectively and efficiently. Everything that needed to be done would be done and maybe even better without me in the mix.

[Jenny Blake]

Awesome. Awesome. So ideal outcome is you come back with a manuscript in draft form, and no one really even notices you're gone. The month flies by. Maybe things even improve because you're gone during this time.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yep.

[Jenny Blake]

Anything else for ideal outcomes, how will you feel at the end of this month?

[Jonathan Fields]

Content. Like, the feeling that I had the final day, like the final hour, the final day that I spent a month building a guitar was just like a full body. Oh, hell yeah. That was worth it. And now I'm proud of what I did. So that, like, that feeling that's so beautiful.

[Jenny Blake]

Content and proud.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah.

[Jenny Blake]

Awesome. What about ideal impact? So we. We may not all. All of us listening, may not get to see the manuscript. Tbd. But what impact do you want to have on the person who it is for? Person or people, plural. What impact do you hope that this will have?

[Jonathan Fields]

For them to feel seen, to know me differently and to feel better, prepared to take on the world.

[Jenny Blake]

For them to feel seen, for them to know you even deeper and feel prepared to take on the world?

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jenny Blake]

I love it. Any other impact? What about, like, on you, on the business or anything else, in terms of designing the ideal impact of this project and this time the impact on me.

[Jonathan Fields]

Just knowing that it's out of my head, you know, that I took this thing and it now exists outside of me.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. And you described at the beginning feeling tension because it's kind of knocking at your door, it seems like, and it's on your mind and it's getting ready for you. We talked about the fruit metaphor, but that at the end of this month you could feel relieved a little bit. It's stage one. It's out, at least out of your mind. And maybe that would enable you to focus on the businesses with a little more presence because you would know that at least you've moved this project forward as well.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, I mean, for sure. And if I decided that this was actually something that either in its state or adjusted it was something that would at some point be for public consumption, then there's a potential impact at that scale as well.

[Jenny Blake]

Absolutely. And that you'll know. I think you can't quite know that until it's out. Draft one is out.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah.

[Jenny Blake]

So let's talk about the third part of design, which is processing. This is where we shift into a little bit of the nitty gritty at a high level. What would enable this to flow? So, like, how do you want to design the month? Whether it's where you are, what decisions you need to make. And then we could also look at process in terms of stepping away from the business for this month, of what needs to happen.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah. So on two levels. One would be probably to find a place to go for a month where the physical location was. Was beautiful, was inspiring, was natural. Also by sort of like the nature of what it was, removed a lot of distractions and probably had really terrible cell signal and. And super slow wi fi. So that I was like, not, you know, it was just so hard to try and like, do all the things that would normally distract me that I just gave up on them fairly quickly. And also where I could be and physically feel at peace and move my body and be in nature. You know, sort of like pulse between creation and immersion in nature. Because both of those tend to be a really powerful cycle for me. That one fuels the other, which fuels the other. And of course, be with my wife the whole time so that we could sort of like be in it together to the extent that it was something that would be nourishing to her also. Or maybe she's there for part of the time and then it goes back and forth. So physically, I think I see this working best if I literally remove myself from my physical location in terms of business process and structure. Because a lot of what we do is produce media and trainings and things like this. We'd have to really anticipate, probably months out, what's the buffer that we need to build in order for me to step away and know that we're completely fine. We're all produced and ready to go and ready to air with multiple properties and shows and for any engagements, basically just block out a month where we're not booking anything, where I would actually be physically or virtually present for keynotes or workshops and facilitating and stuff like that, where I wouldn't be needed for anything like that.

[Jenny Blake]

I'm hearing three big homeworks which are joy works. Number one would be pick a location and maybe Stephanie would have fun picking with you because you said she's invited and it's with her for her as well. So picking somewhere in nature, ideally with terrible solid and wi fi signal, picking the time window so far enough out that you can plan and that you from now don't have any keynotes or anything that requires your presence. And then the big. The third big chunk is telling the team so you can get enough in the can, as we say in the biz, enough episodes scheduled and ready that no one's in a scramble either before you go or afterward.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, I think those are like the three big things.

[Jenny Blake]

Is there anything else that would fall apart during this month that if you were not to design it now or up front, they would go, oh, my God, everything's on fire. Because Jonathan is gone this month and we didn't think about xyz. Is there anything like that we're missing? Put another way, is there anything that wouldn't be able to wait until you got back?

[Jonathan Fields]

Probably very little. I'm sure there would be some things, but nothing like major is coming to mind right now.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, so those three big chunks, finding the joyful location, picking when and then just creating a work back plan. As you said, earn your way in. And the way you're going to earn your way in is just get a jump on all the media that you produce.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yep, that works.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, so that's the design stage. We're designing the ideal outcome, the ideal impact and the ideal process. The third and final stage is assigned who will do what by when. So let's just get clear on those three things we just mentioned. Let's assign them. You don't have to do it all. You're just going to help get everyone on board. And I know that's something you're really good at. So who will do what by when? Who needs to do what by when for these three things?

[Jonathan Fields]

Well, I need to write that will be essential to source a location. I'd probably do that in harmony with Stephanie. For those who don't know, Stephanie is my wife and business partner and very good at this.

[Jenny Blake]

I'll say. She's very talented for finding joyful spots.

[Jonathan Fields]

Really, really, really, really good at finding joyful spots. We have lived in 18 different homes over the last 18 months before finally settling into one longer term place. So all sourced by her on the two businesses, you know, production teams that are in place. So it would be a matter of just coordinating with like, like those people already to make things happen, but just you know, to record at a pace where by a certain date we had enough episodes in the can where everybody felt really good with me vanishing for a month. So the folks in production, who we have in place and I think that would probably be it, those would be the main things again I'm sure there like we have like lots of other folks outside of our immediate teams, but that we'd probably need to figure out little tweaks to. I don't think there's anyone new. We're not a giant company, so it's a fairly small number of people who handle different things. So it's coordinating among our awesome human beings that this is coming and sort of like this is how we all need to prepare for it.

[Jenny Blake]

And maybe to that end, a little fourth homework is just the communication plan while you're gone. So is there a situation where they should email you or when do they text or call you of what scenarios might be happening but just so that everyone feels good, like they know when to bother you or not and you know that they'll get in touch when something's urgent?

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, that sounds great.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, so we're recording this in February.

[Jonathan Fields]

Oh, are you gonna hold me to something?

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. What month would be joyful from now, knowing what you know about your production schedule and seasonality and this project that is just knocking at the door of your mind? When would you love. What would be your ideal month to do this?

[Jonathan Fields]

In theory, I would say May, but I'm not sure if that's enough lead time to make all of this happen. So it may be more realistically something like September, where I can literally just buy myself a month to completely vanish and do this, which isn't that far off in the larger context of things.

[Jenny Blake]

Totally. So May is ideal. That sparked something thinking about May, and if it didn't put too much undue pressure on the team, May seems like that called to you and then back up. Could be August or September.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay, great. So with this in place, that assigned stage, you know, at least loosely defined now rate, on a scale of 1 to 10, we started at a 6. How do you feel about your approach to this writing project?

[Jonathan Fields]

How do I feel about my approach to it?

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Fields]

Probably closer to an eight.

[Jenny Blake]

Okay.

[Jonathan Fields]

I feel like it's not like it's not really entirely sussed out. I'm not like, you know, like, all in on it quite yet, but I can, Yes, I can see more clearly, like, the steps that I would need to really think through. I understand, like. Like, why it's really important to me. I understand what the outcome is that I want, what the impact I want from that is. I have to think more about what the actual granular processes would be like as part of that design stage. So I think that's why I'm not entirely there yet also, because that's going to take some figuring out. And that's actually not my sweet spot. That's not the type of stuff that I'm super skilled at or love doing. So I'll have to figure out how to move through that. And in terms of the assigned part of it, I think that's actually relatively straightforward. The who? What one. So I feel like I'm closer. And once I actually figure out a granular process, like, here's what needs to happen between now and then, then I start moving much closer to, like, oh, yeah, this is getting. This is starting to feel really exciting.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. Yeah, that we have at least the loose architecture of it. And maybe you could even assign that piece you mentioned, like, the granularity. Maybe there is someone you can engage to help you think that through or map it Out.

[Jonathan Fields]

Yeah, no, for sure.

[Jenny Blake]

I always like to wrap up. I like two questions. I know you have your famous last question of the pod, but two questions to wrap up this little micro coaching. What's one insight or aha from this mini session?

[Jonathan Fields]

Probably that there is this sort of fairly straightforward linear process that if I'm walking around saying this really matters to me and I'm not doing it, that it was probably because I didn't just have sort of like a fairly straightforward process to just say this, then this, then this. And now I feel like I do. And there's still work to be done. But now I kind of know where to focus.

[Jenny Blake]

And I'll add, on behalf of all of your listeners and gleepers, we crave for you to do this project. We might not ever see it, but knowing how much it lights you up and what a frigging talent you are at writing and communicating, I think all of us could say yes. Jonathan, please step back from the day to day systems and go do your thing because we all benefit so much from it. Last question. What's one small next step that you can take in the next week?

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay, so because this, I think, would be one of the most fun things to do. Stephanie and I are looking for a place, a location, an escape. Like a creative escape to make it happen.

[Jenny Blake]

Yes. Awesome. So you're going to tell Stephanie and start looking for a place and I have to sneak in. What one next step would have the biggest impact?

[Jonathan Fields]

Figuring out our production schedule that would allow me the greatest amount of freedom to choose when to do this.

[Jenny Blake]

Awesome.

[Jonathan Fields]

Okay.

[Jenny Blake]

I love it.

[Jonathan Fields]

I have my orders.

[Jenny Blake]

You'll touch base with Steph. You have your marching orders. I might also add maybe just like starting an outline, like doing some. As far as big impact, something on the creative side, like drop one next step into the creative bucket. Next step.

[Jonathan Fields]

That's great. Yeah. Especially because I'm a maker. So that actually is something that I would really. That would immediately be energizing to me.

[Jenny Blake]

Yeah. Little kindling to just get you excited for this.

[Jonathan Fields]

This has been awesome. This is super helpful and zooming the lens out. What I think is so fascinating too is we started the conversation around the context of free time and how valuable it is to us and how much we've sort of lost control of our ability to reclaim it and create it. And what we ended up talking about in my mini intervention here is how I actually want to create this free time to do something that might be considered work, but it's actually just to do something which has been something I've wanted to do for a long time. That is a joyful expression of my ideas, my identity, my craft, my skills. The thing that I feel like I'm partly here to do, even though it will take a lot of work and a lot of effort and some of it will be angsty, I'm buying my ability to do that effectively because to me, that's one of the ways I actually want to spend my free time, whether it ever becomes something that's commercially viable or generates income or revenue for the businesses or not. So I think it's just a really interesting frame on how we can use these ideas to just create time and space to do whatever it is that we want to do, whether that's hiking on the Appalachian Trail or just doing something that actually takes a lot of work. But that's deeply meaningful to us.

[Jenny Blake]

Absolutely. And I think when we are truly rested and present with our, quote, free time where we're not doing anything at all, I think so many of us can relate to that. We want to work on legacy projects, big, meaningful, juicy stuff, building guitars, writing these meaningful words for others like that is so much of how I do think a lot of us want to spend our free time is doing really meaningful work that we know can serve others and help others and change the world.

[Jonathan Fields]

Love that. And that feels like a good place for us to come full circle. So just as you asked me your two closing questions for a mini coaching session, I'm going to ask you my final question, which I ask with everyone. So sitting in this container of Good Life project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up?

[Jenny Blake]

I would say presence and choice. As we've been talking about these themes. But a good life is the ability to be there and be in the moment and be present for whatever it is that we're doing and not to feel those tugs of guilt and angst and just not being able to keep up and burnout, you know? So just really being able to be present and good life is choosing, choosing who we want to spend our time with and how and what to work on that. I think that is one of the greatest privileges that we can all work toward if we're lucky.

[Jonathan Fields]

Thank you.

[Jenny Blake]

Thank you so much, JF and thank you for being open and letting us all into your world a little bit. It's really an honor.

[Jonathan Fields]

Before you leave, if you love this episode, safe bet you will also love the conversation we had with Brene Brown about doing more of what fills you up and not getting derailed by inner or outer criticism. You'll find a link to Brene's episode in the show. Notes this episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me. Jonathan Fields editing helped by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor. A seven second favor. Share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome too. But just one person? Even then, invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields signing off for Good Life Project.

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