Relationship Agreements: A Powerful Way to Deepen Love & Lessen Conflict | Krista & Will Van Derveer

Summary

Podcast Summary

Good Life Project with Jonathan Fields
Episode: Relationship Agreements: A Powerful Way to Deepen Love & Lessen Conflict
Guests: Krista & Will Van Der Veer
Release Date: March 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this masterclass conversation, Jonathan Fields sits down with Krista and Will Van Der Veer—marital partners, business collaborators, hosts of the Art of We podcast, and passionate advocates for intentional relationship growth. The central theme is the idea of “relationship agreements”: explicitly crafted, mutually supportive guidelines that serve as sacred guardrails—helping couples deepen intimacy, navigate conflict, and turn partnership into both a personal and world-changing force. The episode explores the origin story of their process, the mechanics of building agreements, their most formative and challenging rules, and practical tips for listeners to bring similar clarity and repair into their own relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Relationship Agreements

• Krista’s Background: Worked in consulting, bringing interpersonal agreements into organizations to promote success. Had a desire to carry this into her intimate life after facing the challenges of previous relationships.

  "Before I met Will, I was like, wow, like I really want to take this into my next partnership because this is incredibly supportive for the success of us individually." (Krista, 04:48)

• Will’s Background: Came from a long marriage guided by Buddhist-influenced guidelines, with limitations in terms of mutual growth.

  "Our Buddhist tradition was...your disturbance is not your partner's problem. And there's significant limitations in that perspective." (Will, 09:02)

• Shared Intention: Both sought a relationship that wasn’t only a “private love oasis,” but also a force for positive impact in the world.

  “We really wanted our next partnership to be of service to the world, not just for our own little private love oasis.” (Krista, 06:29)

2. Setting a Higher Bar – Vision Beyond “I”

• Both Krista and Will brought deep intention and high standards (shaped by loss and self-awareness) into their partnership.
• The idea of a “WE operating system”: moving beyond self-focused desires toward shared impact.
• Notable Quote:

  “We can do more than I can, which is our. One of our mottos that we have in our relationship.” (Krista, 17:11)

• Their vision: Relationships can be meaningful not just internally but as engines for external good.

3. Why Explicit Agreements?

• Explicit vs. Implicit: Unspoken expectations can unravel in times of conflict. Explicit agreements create clarity and sustainable connection.

  “The problem with implicit agreements...when things get hard and we didn't actually explicitly agree to it, then those things go out the window.” (Krista, 21:01)

• Not “Unromantic”—but Essential: Far from killing the magic, agreements keep vitality and presence alive.

  “If anything, I feel like it keeps the juices really fresh and the passion lit at a high level because there’s so much presence that’s required...” (Will, 19:52)

• Agreements are “living”—they evolve and are regularly updated.

4. Purpose-Driven Agreements (Not One-Size-Fits-All)

• Crafting agreements should fit your shared purpose as a couple—whether that’s comfort, adventure, raising a family, or making an impact.
• Notable Quote:

  “Ask the question, what's the couple up to?...And then the agreements...need to support what they're up to together.” (Will, 23:40)

5. Repair & Conflict: Turning Tension into Closeness

• Abundant Repair Principle: Address misalignments until both partners physically feel the desire to be close again, not just mentally “okay”.
• Somatic (Body-Based) Wisdom: Both speakers value embodied signals (not just cognitive agreement) to know when repair is real.

  "My barometer...is that my body wants to be closer to Will's body. Then I know...conflict can become an opportunity for deeper connection." (Krista, 29:31)

• Somatic 'Couch Tool': The more-dysregulated partner lies on their back, the other on top, synchronizing breathing until calm is restored (52:23).

  “When I feel his body on me...and I start to relax...our chest breathing together...my body starts to relax. 100% success rate for us.” (Krista, 53:42)

6. Joint Healing and Co-Responsibility

• Their model rejects a “your problem, your therapy” mindset; instead, couples take joint responsibility in supporting and healing each other’s wounded parts.

  "We both have a part in whatever our outcomes are...We are standing for the healing of the younger wounded...parts of ourselves." (Krista, 37:40)

7. Mechanics and Structure of Agreements

• Agreements must be:
  • Clearly defined with mutual understanding
  • Explicitly written or documented
  • Mutually meaningful and relevant to both parties

  “It’s not just like...we all separately think of a color, particular shade...but we’re not actually talking about the same thing.” (Krista, 39:54)

• For robustness, they have 24 such agreements, covering a range of possible challenges (41:28).
• Example Agreements (see below).

8. Illustrative Agreements—Core Examples

• “We agree to gamble everything for love.”

  • Take emotional and personal risks, surface vulnerable truths, and don’t hold back with each other.
  • Quote:

    “We were gonna put it all on [the] table. We were gonna address the rubs...all the parts of us that even we hold back a little bit.” (Krista, 42:54)

  • Encourages surfacing even uncomfortable feelings to avoid resentment and foster true connection.

• “We agree to repair ruptures abundantly and stay in conversation.”

  • Conflict isn’t swept under the rug; both partners stay engaged until true embodied reconciliation is reached.

• “We agree to see each other with fresh eyes every day.”

  • Commit to curiosity, avoid complacency or projection, and honor each other’s ongoing growth.
  • “Curiosity is a discipline and a practice. It’s not something that just happens spontaneously.” (Will, 59:41)

9. Practical Guidance for Listeners

• Start agreements where your relationship is stuck—address recurring conflict loops.
• Ask: “What are we up to as a couple? Why are we together?”

  “Some couples get together every year and ask themselves [about purpose] with fresh eyes.” (Will, 63:02)

• Agreements are living documents, adapting as the relationship evolves (57:31).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On Relationship Vision

  “We can do more than I can, which is one of our mottos.” (Krista, 17:11)

• On the Vulnerability of Agreements

  “We agree to gamble everything for love...bring all ourselves forward, all the parts of us...we’re gonna put it on the table.” (Krista, 42:54)

• On Repair and Embodied Wisdom

  “My barometer...is that my body wants to be closer to Will’s body. Then I know...conflict can become an opportunity for deeper connection.” (Krista, 29:31)

• On Somatic Repair Strategy

  “If one of us points to the couch… the dysregulated person lies on their back and the less dysregulated person will lie on top… and we'll just breathe together until there's some sort of somatic relief.” (Krista, 52:23)

• On The Hardest Agreement

  “The agreement to see each other with fresh eyes every day...requires that I bring forward something that my brain isn’t...used to, which is seeing Will as an evolving, developing human being.” (Krista, 58:05)

• On Partnership as Co-Healing

  “We both have a part in whatever our outcomes are...we are standing for the healing of the younger wounded...parts of ourselves.” (Krista, 37:40)

• On the Fear and Growth in Long-Term Relationship

  “We want them to be different only in the ways that we want them to be different, only in a way that benefits us.” (Will, 62:08)

• On Where to Begin

  “Start where the two of you...have breakdowns… where you get stuck and can’t quite get out. What do we want to be doing in that moment?” (Krista, 62:27)

• On Living a Good Life

  “For me, to live a good life is to really be so deeply in contact with what’s moving through me...deep, rich connections with the beings around us.” (Krista, 66:38)
  “I’m living my best life when I’m chasing ambitious goals...while at the same time balancing...deep connection with myself and the people around me.” (Will, 67:02)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Topics

• [04:48] — Origin story: Bringing agreements from work to love
• [06:29] — Shared intention: A couple dedicated to service and impact
• [09:02] — Prior relationship guidelines and their limitations
• [17:11] — “We operating system” and surpassing individualism
• [19:52] — Do agreements kill or fuel romantic “magic”?
• [21:01] — Implicit vs. explicit agreements
• [29:31] — Abundant repair and somatic signs of reconnection
• [35:32] — Trauma, embodied vs. intellectual knowing, and joint healing
• [39:54] — Mechanics of agreements: Specificity and clarity
• [42:54] — The first (and core) agreement: “Gamble everything for love”
• [52:23] — The ‘couch’ tool for embodied co-regulation
• [58:05] — Hardest agreement: “See each other with fresh eyes”
• [62:27] — Advice: Start where you’re most stuck
• [66:38] — Good life definitions

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Crafting written agreements transforms relationships: They clarify expectations and provide tools for navigating conflict rather than letting resentment or misunderstanding fester.
• Practical, daily discipline, not theory: True partnership is a living system—requiring attention, revision, and deep vulnerability.
• Repair is embodied: Don’t settle for intellectual closure. Aim for the sense of physical reconnection. Use tools like “couch time.”
• Curiosity as a discipline: See your partner with fresh eyes every day—and let this curiosity fuel lifelong growth, not complacency.
• Start small, start real: Begin with one tough spot. Explicitly document, agree, and revisit as needed.

  “Start where...you tend to have breakdowns...then you can start to really look to see what might the agreement need to be.” (Krista, 62:27)

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Overall Tone: Warm, honest, playful, and candid—focused on growth, shared responsibility, and mutual support. The conversation is both practical and inspiring, inviting listeners to reimagine intimate partnership as a source of both personal fulfillment and outward good.

Transcript

[Jonathan Fields]

So we all want that sense of easy, stable love. But so often we find ourselves just kind of falling into the same old ruts. We assume we know what our partner's thinking, we let small tensions simmer, and eventually the magic just starts to feel

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

a bit like a chore.

[Jonathan Fields]

My guests today say it doesn't have

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

to be that way.

[Jonathan Fields]

If you're willing to move from what they call an I operating system to

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

a WE operating system, Krista and Will van der Veer join me to talk

[Jonathan Fields]

about the sacred guardrails or agreements that they use to keep their relationship thriving.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Will is a psychiatrist and author of the new book Psychedelic Therapy, and Christa

[Jonathan Fields]

is a leadership educator who specializes in how we relate to one another. Together they host the Art of We podcast. In this conversation, we're exploring how to craft your own sacred relationship agreements that keep bringing you back to love, how to gamble everything for love by servicing the things you're usually too afraid to say.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

We talk about a somatic couch tool

[Jonathan Fields]

for cooling down high conflict moments using simple biology and why abundant repair is one of the secrets to feeling closer after a fight than you did before it even started. It's a bit of a masterclass in

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

how to build a partnership that isn't

[Jonathan Fields]

just a private love oasis, but an engine for your greatest work in the world.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So excited to share this conversation with you.

[Jonathan Fields]

I'm Jonathan Fields and this is Good Life Project. Good Life Project is sponsored by gnc. So you know that early spring feeling when you want to reset a few routines, not overhaul your whole life. Just kind of make the next month feel a little more supported. I keep a small shelf in the

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That's Bill.comProven.

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or just click the link in the show Notes. Terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details. Good Life Project is sponsored by Gab Wireless. So our executive producer Lindsay was telling me about juggling weekday routines with her two young kids and she wanted them to play outside and gain independence but still have a reliable way to just check in. So she got her 9 year old a gab instead. It really hit the sweet spot. He can tap to call or send a simple message and Lindsey can see basic location info without any of the endless apps that steal attention. This isn't about control. It's a gentle, practical step towards independence. Think of it as slow technology connection at the right pace so kids learn freedom and parents keep peace of mind. Mornings feel less frantic, quick neighborhood trips feel calmer, and the everyday logistics that used to just nag at her headspace have eased. So if you want a straightforward tool that keeps kids connected with social media, give Gab a try and see how family life shifts for the better. Visit gab.com goodlife and use the code Good Life for a special offer that's G-A-B-B.com GoodLife or just click the link in the show notes.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So my opening curiosity here is where did this idea of agreements and sort of like relationship driven agreements, especially in the context of personal relationships.

[Jonathan Fields]

What's the origin story for this?

[Krista van der Veer]

When I met Will, I was working for a consulting company and we were actually going into organizations. So it's interesting that you bring this up this way because we were bringing these practices about how to relate together in order to really move forward the mission and to succeed interpersonally and also in what we're up to together. And before I met Will, I was like, wow, like I really want to take this into my next partnership because this is incredibly supportive for the success of us individually and also as a company at that point. And so when I met Will and we decided what kind of partnership we wanted, we decided to create agreements based upon both of our backgrounds, what really worked and what really didn't work. And also from some of our mentors that we've learned from and create these specific relationship agreements to help us accomplish what we wanted to accomplish in our partnership at the time. And we did meet, you know, when I was mid-40s and Will was late-40s. So it was like a second half of our lives partnership where we had already learned a lot about partnerships and what worked and what didn't work.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

And just for clarity, we're talking about personal partnership. We're not talking about business partnership here, although it's eventually evolved into that.

[Jonathan Fields]

But this is.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

You two meet, you're later in life, you've had other relationships. There have been things that have gone well and things that haven't gone well. Just like everybody out there and you come together and you're kind of like, all right, how do we gather up what we've learned and set ourselves up optimally so that this thing can really work as good as it can work? Is that kind of like land, Right?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah. And we'll even go to the first conversation we had on our first date. It was very personal to us. Our personal relationship we wanted. But we both came to the same table, the same table with the same conversation of we really wanted our next partnership to be of service to the world, not just for our own little private love oasis. And we knew that if we wanted to have that kind of partnership, that we would have to really create these agreements, these sacred guardrails of how we would accomplish that together, rather than just, you know, go day by day and hope that it happens. And we had both come from relationships that, you know, were challenging. So we wanted something different.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. All right, Will, it's your first date. You sit down with Krista.

[Jonathan Fields]

How does the idea like.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Of. Of actually something like this come up

[Jonathan Fields]

on the first date?

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

I mean, most first dates, it's like you're dancing around, you're talking about superficial stuff. You're probably having a drink or two just to loosen up and let go of the nerves and the anxiety.

[Jonathan Fields]

This is a big, deep topic that

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

just gets surfaced, like, right out of the gate.

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I think it says a lot about who Krista is as a human that we didn't spend a lot of time on surfacy topics. We dove right in and we shut down the restaurant. It was a three and a half or four hour conversation. And it was just incredibly exciting to meet another person who had a very similar vision for what relationships could do. And you know, as Kirsten mentioned, you know, we both came from different kinds of experiences in the past. I'd been in a 20 year marriage where the agreements that we had were loosely based on our Buddhist practice, which had advantages and it had limitations to it. I could talk about those maybe in more depth if we get to that. But essentially the desire that I had of having a bigger expression or a bigger impact on the world, I was not able to realize that in the previous relationship I was in. And I knew that I needed a different set of agreements to be able to accomplish that. So we've really practiced these agreements now for how many years now, Krista?

[Krista van der Veer]

We'll be married seven years this year and together nine years. But yeah, but I don't think you actually had relationship agreements in your last relationship. Your last relationship is that.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Are you.

[Will van der Veer]

I would say we had guidelines based on our Buddhist teacher, which are that, you know, if you're having emotional distress, it's your problem personally and it's not a great idea. It's definitely frowned upon in Buddhism to bring disturbances to your partner. You go back to the cushion. I don't know if that's true, Jonathan, in the yogic traditions, but the concept sort of is that at least what I was taught in our Buddhist tradition was you need to have your own back, you need to take that to the cushion, go meditate more. Your disturbance is not your partner's problem. And there's significant limitations in that perspective.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

It's really interesting, right, because you have, a lot of times when stuff goes sideways in a relationship, we go to what are the teachings that have been handed to us that feel like, what are the guidelines that have come before us that have already established and we'll just lock onto whatever it is that are the ones that we know and will ride along with it. Oftentimes it's faith based, it's spiritual based. Sometimes it's just the family culture that has handed down these traditions and without fail, there's always some stuff which is like, wow, that is really powerful. It makes so much sense. It lands really well. And there's that stuff that raises your eyebrow a little bit and you're kind of like, I'm not so sure about that. And then there's the other bucket, which is like, are you kidding me?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah, right.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

You know, and I think we, we all kind of go there, but oftentimes we don't. The question is being raised in our minds. But we don't actually, we don't act on the question. We just act on the rote side of it because we're like, well, this is, this is what's been handed to me. It must work. So let me just follow those rules. Did you have a similar sort of set of imprints coming into this, Krista?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean for me it was like I learned like you're saying, from my family about how to do relationship, from our culture, about how to do relationship from the people around me. But after I had lost a partner to a sudden death, before I met Will, and, and we had a beautiful and also challenging relationship. But after he died, I was, you know, after a year and a half of grieving, I was like, do I even really want a partnership again? And I remember the moment exactly where I was one of those moments where you can't forget it. And I just stopped and I was like, oh, I want that more than anything, but only if it's gonna be extraordinary. And I don't even know what that looks like. I don't know how to get it. I've never seen it, but that's what I'm standing for. And then I proceeded to go through some dating processes with my own self agreements about how I would show up for the dating in order to see if, if, if they would, if they and I would meet. You know what I'm. This kind of partnership that I was calling in. So I was definitely coming from creating a different thing that I hadn't seen before.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. Do you remember that moment where sort of, you know, like the, the switch was flipped? Did something happen or was it just you're walking along, you're like, oh no, I'm just, I just know.

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah. I was walking my parents dog, I was house sitting for them and I was on the sidewalk and I remember exactly I was looking at this park and it was just like one of those lightning bolts. Nothing happened other than me asking the question of like, do I actually even want this? Do I want partnership? It was so heartbreaking what I went through with his death. And it was also such a challenge and the very end of his life and also so beautiful. But I was like, wow, this is a lot of work. And I realized that it had to be extraordinary again for me to say yes to this.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah, I mean I would imagine also and tell me if this is right, that when you lose somebody in that way, the pain is so deep and so enduring that for you to say yes to the possibility of that happening again. Like, the stars have to align on a completely different level. Does that land?

[Krista van der Veer]

That totally lands. Because I knew that if. If I was going to be in partnership again, it would be risky. I would lose a lot. I would have to love again. I might get heartbroken again. But it. That was totally worth it. But it was also easier to be in that conviction because if I didn't get too extraordinary, then I was like, ah, I can live without it. No big deal. I can do this myself, if that makes sense.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. So the standard for you is just stunningly high. It's like, I want this to happen. Like, I want this to be yes,

[Jonathan Fields]

but for it to be a yes,

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

some incredible things need to be in place.

[Krista van der Veer]

Exactly, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Were you coming from a similar place, Will?

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I had been dreaming and journaling and very carefully detailing the qualities of the partner that I was calling in. And it was interesting because that piece of paper that. Where I worked that and crossed it out and erased it and rewrote it and designed it was in a workbook that someone had recommended to me that was on my bookshelf. And after Krista and I had been together for a few years, I found that workbook, and I opened up to that page and saw that document in there. And it was kind of spooky how clearly she met the description that I was writing for a couple years before I met Krista. So it sounds a little hokey, but I've come to believe that that energetic calling in is real and that that is something that really matters. And when we set really clear intentions, we're sending out a message that matters.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

You both come together. You both used a phrase that I think is really interesting and really unusual in what you wanted when you sat down for that first conversation, which is you weren't just looking for something that was going to satisfy you on a personal, individual level. You were looking to create a relationship

[Jonathan Fields]

that had a bigger impact, that somehow

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

affected people beyond the two of you. That is stunningly unusual. Do you. Do you acknowledge that?

[Krista van der Veer]

I think we were both a little bit in shock on our first date to be coming with that same conversation. It wasn't like one of us influenced the other into that. We both literally came with that conversation. And, Will, do you want to share where you, you know, where you got that inspiration from?

[Will van der Veer]

Well, another close friend of ours in Boulder, Jason Gaddis, on his podcast, had the wonderful, roomy translator Andrew Harvey as a guest a few years ago. And Andrew was talking about how deeply the World needs couples who are committed to change, changing the world. And his view, at least as expressed on that episode, was like, this is what the world needs now is people who are committed to this and have each other's backs and who are willing to grow and fall down and race ahead and pick themselves up and pick each other up. And so I was on fire with that notion for a few weeks before our date started. And so that was where I got fired up about it.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So it's like you both bring this thing to it because most people start a relationship, they're like, okay, so maybe they make the list that you described. I know somebody literally had made a list with over 100 things that had to be on the list, the part of that they were looking for. And okay, so maybe that's overkill, but a lot of people do sit down and say, like, I need this, I need that, I need this. Right?

[Jonathan Fields]

But generally those lists, they're about, like,

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

what I want for my life, about how I want to feel in my relationship, in my world. Like, it's me, me, me, me, me. And look, there's nothing wrong with that. We have needs and we have desires and we want to get them met.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right?

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

On a very personal level. And to go beyond that and say, and like, not.

[Jonathan Fields]

But. But.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

And I also want this union to be a. An engine for something bigger. It's just so highly unusual. Krista, like, on your side, like, where did that come from?

[Krista van der Veer]

Well, I can say that we talk about it now, I can say where it came from, but now we talk about it as moving from the I O I operating system to the Wii os, the Wii operating system. And it's actually really informed our partnership and how we make decisions and a lot of our agreements. But I think that for me, I'm kind of tired. And before I met Will, I was tired of. Of the knowing that there's only a certain amount of impact that I personally, as one human being can have in the world. And I. I've always tended to be very relationally oriented, really caring for the we of us. And, you know, potentially it comes from maybe something that I was wanting more in my life earlier on is, is. Is to really be attuned to and tracked. And I wanted to attune to others and track others and. But there's always just kind of a knowing that we can do more than I can, which is our. One of our mottos that we have in our relationship. And. And it came very clear. It kind of came to a head that first Date because I hadn't met another human being. Kind of like what you're saying. Jonathan, who was coming with the same conversation and was a potential partner for me, and we're closing the restaurant down. So I think it really even stuck even more in that moment of we can do more than I can.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So then my curiosity is, how do you move from there to, okay, so we're getting serious with each other. You know, like, we're. We're forming this partnership. We need a set of agreements to guide it, because, again, this is a big wild leap that nobody else takes. There may be implicit agreements, right? Like, the things that kind of like, yes, we kind of, like, agree on this. Saying, yes, we agree. We've kind of shared this type of value, right? But it's so unusual for somebody to sit down and say, okay, so here's the deal. We need to literally set up, like, written, clearly worded bylaws for this relationship.

[Jonathan Fields]

Were you both equally excited about this?

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Was. Was one person lay hesitant, like. And I think here's a deeper question I'm asking. Especially in the early days of relationship, there's a magic to it, right? There's like, this tingling part of the relationship. There's like, ooh, this is juicy. This is fun. I don't want to lose this. And I would imagine that we've got a lot of people joining us who are there, like, if you tell them, okay, so the next step here is to sit down and negotiate these, like, tightly worded agreements. They're like, ooh, but doesn't that kill the magic and everything?

[Will van der Veer]

It might be counterintuitive to the listener, but it actually has the opposite effect of keeping us very much alive and on our toes with each other. One example is we vow to always see each other with fresh eyes every day. And if you take that at face value, maybe the first impression might be like, oh, that's beautiful, and that's sweet. But when you start looking at it day after day over years, how easy it is to slip into automating your partner. Just like you automate the room that you walk into when you come home. You kind of know where the couch is, you know where the chair is, you know where. Where you throw your keys every day when you come in. So it. It, if anything, I feel like it keeps the. The juices really fresh and keeps the passion lit at a high level because there's so much presence that's required to pull it off, to live by these agreements every day. So that's. That's my Thought on it.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Krista, where do you land?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah, I love your question because some people are like agreements. That just sounds like horrible. Like we'll get stuck in some sort of thing that we don't want to be in. And yeah, I agree with Will where it's like for me, it. The agreements require me to grow personally and I'm both of us, fortunately, which I think makes this work, is that we're high value. We put a high value on growth. And so like another example is to assume positive intent. Now this is becoming more popular out in the world that we assume positive intent. But when we're in a rupture or conflict, that's where the real growth become comes available is like, oh, I'm not actually assuming positive intent right now. And we can remind you, we gently remind each other because we already agreed upon it. And the problem with implicit agreements, because you brought that up, Jonathan, is that when things get hard and we didn't actually explicitly agree to it, then those things go out the window. You know, when. When we're in high conflict, high challenge, like, I never agreed to that. Or we can go there. And for me, these keep me growing because I know that they serve me. They serve well and they serve the we of us. The, you know, the bigger entity that. That includes us but also transcends us. And so for me, it becomes a really fun experience. And it's also not about beating each other up with. With the agreements when we fall down. It's about calling each other in and supporting each other. And they're living agreements too. So we can change them whenever they're not actually correct or we have actually a misunderstanding about them or they're ready to be evolved into something else.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So that makes sense to me. What if somebody's listening to this or watching and they're thinking themselves? Okay, cool, cool, cool. Like, you two are really into growth. Good for you, right? You go grow. You do the personal development thing. You invest in all this stuff. You do the coaching and the therapy. And that's by the way, like, you know, this has been both of your worlds. You know, Krista, you've been a coach at the highest level for years and an executive. And Will, you've been a psychiatrist and like, so like, you're both just fiercely growth oriented. But somebody's joining us and they're like, look, what I want from my relationship, I just want it to be easy. I want to be stable.

[Jonathan Fields]

I don't need to be constantly evolving

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

and growing and changing. I just want a partner And a relationship that just feels good and peaceful for, as, you know, as much as it can, as often as it can, and as long as it can.

[Jonathan Fields]

What do you say to that person

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

in the context of inviting them to still consider getting really detailed about relationship agreements?

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I think that there are differences in individuals about how much they want to grow or how hard they want to work on themselves in one lifetime. And I'm completely okay with that. I don't have judgment about that. I mean, this goes to kind of the beginning of the journey for me and Krista when we work with couples is asking the question, what's the couple up to? Like, what are they here together in this relationship to do together? Maybe it's being comfortable. Maybe it's raising kids. Maybe it's starting a business together. It could be anything. And then the agreements for that particular couple need to support what they're up to together. So it's really about matching up agreements that support the fulfillment that that couple wants to have as opposed to, hey, everybody should be on, like the fastest rocket ship of growth there is.

[Jonathan Fields]

And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good life project is sponsored by Wild Alaskan company. So there's something about small rituals that change a season of life. For me, it was solving the weekly question of what to cook that felt honest and simple. And a while ago, I got a box from wild Alaskan company and it just kind of quietly shifted our dinner rhythm. Opening that first box, it felt like getting just this thoughtful nudge towards better food. I mean, the coho salmon I tried, it was actually one of the first

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

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[Jonathan Fields]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

in the show Notes Good Life project

[Jonathan Fields]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

It sounds like it's kind of like what comes first then is a conversation that says something like what is the shared vision for our relationship? Like what actually what matters to both of us about where what we exalt and where we're going. Does that make sense?

[Will van der Veer]

Krista Totally.

[Krista van der Veer]

That's actually we talk about that a lot is that that is the first conversation. And then I think the next or maybe sub question to that is, who do we need to be or become in order to fulfill that? And then that's how we start to decide what are the relationship agreements? And, you know, also, like, in the. In the question of the purpose of the partnership, it's like, why specifically you and me, not just partnership in general, like, why am I interested in being with you here? And so it really helps us orient towards what agreements would be supportive.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Krista, you said something I want to reflect on also, which is this notion of agreements. When everything's going fine, you're like, you're just kind of in cruise control with your partner. You know, maybe the agreements aren't like, super. They don't come in on a. On a really regular basis, but it sounds like where these become really important is where there's conflict, where there's challenge, where there's this risk of things going off the rails. Is that right?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yes. And I would say one of our agreements, again, some of these are adapted by people that we admire, like Stan Tatkin in this case, is to have abundant repair when there is misunderstanding or conflict or some sort of rupture. And that, I think, has been the best agreement for us to stay really connected. And, you know, abundant repair isn't just like, okay, we're good. Like, I get what happened for you. This is what happened for me. We're good. It's really working something out until we get. Until I get to. This is my barometer, is that my body wants to be closer to Will's body. Then I know that whatever we encountered is actually making us stronger, more aligned, more on the same page. And that conflict can become a opportunity for deeper connection rather than there's being. There's something wrong for us. And what I know for myself, if I'm not addressing rubs or tensions, conflict with Will, then I start to go back into the iOS, the. The I operating system, where I'm just thinking about myself. I'm just thinking about my needs. Forget him. I'm disconnecting from him in some form. But when we really practice our abundant repair, then we're really prioritizing the we of us, the relationship over what I would do on my own if I didn't stay committed to the connection.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So Will and Chris is. Thomas, if I'm getting this right, like, the signal for you that you've practiced this repair on a level where it's actually becoming effective as you like, you want to feel you're returning to this thing of like, wanting to actually feel physical closeness to Will again. Will, what's your signal?

[Will van der Veer]

I can tell when there's even just a little bit of tension left in my body that we're not done with the repair. Gosh, we could talk for a long time about repair, but there's so much to being courageous enough to keep going until you're finished with the repair. I think that's one of the things that I've learned the most in this relationship with Krista is that what I thought was repair in the past prior to Krista was not a complete repair almost, you know, almost ever. It's sort of like, I, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings and apology, accept it and then move on and, but there's no emotional completion to that. It's more of an intellectual exchange, a transaction. Like, okay, I signed the document and submitted it and now we're good. But the animal body knows when security is re established inside of the the partnership, you know, through letting go of the tension. And I think Krista described it well of like, wanting to move closer to each other physically.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

It's so interesting to me also that you both referenced this somatic signal rather than saying cognitively of like, all right, I think we're there. You know, like, I think we've talked about all the things that we need to talk about. I, I, I think we've resolved like, the major issues. You're both like, no, no, like, that's not like, we don't stop working on this until both of our bodies are telling us like, we're good.

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah. I mean, for me, if I'm just in the cognitive conversation, then I'm probably missing something because I might be like, okay, I think we're there. Like, but how would I really know that we're there? And if I, if I'm not wanting they feel closer to Will, then like, crap, I have to look deeper because we have our old strategies of staying safe and like, not getting into conflict with each other. So I tend to mine or 10, I tend to dissociate from the negative impact that I've experienced so that I don't have to actually address it. But I think Will, like, what you're saying is somehow my body has more intelligence around that, so I have to go investigate a little bit deeper. And we do that often. We're like, okay, are we fully repaired? One of us be like, I don't think so. So we have to kind of investigate more. It's not always super clear about what needs to be attended to.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to me also because my. My signals tend to be really embodied too. What? You know, whether it's conflict or excitement, basically everything. My tell is, how do I feel? Like, even as a creator, as like a maker, as a writer, you know, like, when I'm working on something, I'm writing my. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's kind of like, it's interesting, it's good. And then I'll write a sentence and I'll shake and I'll be like, oh, hell, like, that's. If I can do that once more in the next decade, like, my life will be good. You know, there's a really physical embodied thing that. That hits me when I just know something's not just off, but also really on. Really connected, really.

[Jonathan Fields]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

But here's my question. So many of us, and I'm going

[Jonathan Fields]

to get back to.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Because I really want to get into the details of how do we actually make these agreements, but I think this is really important because this is how do we know that we're actually sort of like honoring them or getting to a place where we're good with them? I do feel like for so many people, there's an embodied element to it. Like their body gives them information that says, yeah, we're there, we're closing in, or we're there. Like, we're ready to, like, we can close the books on this, we can move on, we're good. And yet so many of us have been through so much capital T trauma, little T trauma experiences in our life where we have learned to disconnect from all of our embodied signals, from all the somatic things that actually would want to speak to us and tell us how we feel.

[Jonathan Fields]

How do you deal with that?

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Like, when you're actually. When a lot of the signals that you're looking for would come from your body, but you have and maybe for good reasons, compartmentalized, basically decided you're living from the head up and you're not getting them. Will, I'll kick that over to you. I think.

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I would use myself as an example in what you're talking about. I grew up in a very intellectual way. I came to understand through therapy that I had retreated into my mind as a safe place to be and not feeling the things that were there for me to feel. And, you know, as I was growing up and, you know, not to scare people away from this process that we're talking about, but when you, if you're like me and you've ignored your body and the signals of your body for a long time. When you start tuning into the body. I think this started happening for me in my early 30s with a meditation teacher who was a very somatic oriented Buddhist meditation teacher. When you start tuning into your body for the first time, it has things to say to you that are not pleasant to hear because it's sort of like you've had a slave locked in the dungeon of your mind for a long time. But I would just encourage people that it's very worth it to do that work because the synchronization between the body and the mind is a beautiful gift that helps you operate your life in a much more efficient, less frictiony kind

[Krista van der Veer]

of way

[Will van der Veer]

to develop that presence is really worthwhile. And I think many people are growing up in situations, you know, like the one I grew up in, where. And I think, you know, Krista's too is just a cultural thing of like, we're very mental in our culture. We don't tend to orient in the way that Krista described just a minute ago of like, okay, my body's feeling something, there must be intelligence there. You know, we tend to write it off or question it or even just disregard it.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Krista, did you have a similar sort of journey from the head into the body?

[Krista van der Veer]

Let me think about that. Just kidding. I think, I think I did have that kind of journey. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

For those not saint watching video here, she's just like, dude, are you serious? Don't look, I'll tell you that.

[Krista van der Veer]

I mean, Jonathan, I keep attempting to get more and more embodied every single day. So it's. Yes, it's definitely been a journey. And one thing that I want to say here in relationship to our agreements and how we do our partnership, in relationship to what you're talking about, small T trauma, big T trauma. I mean Will is really the expert in all of that in his background, in his profession. But here, what we really stand for, which I think is different from most couples, first of all, we, we believe that we co create everything together. Our failures, our successes, that we, we both have a part in whatever our outcomes are, but also that we are standing for the healing of the younger wounded. We call them parts of ourselves. There's different ways to talk about it, that that has experienced high levels of either trauma or different things in life that, that keep us being in limited perspectives or shrinking down or you know, not coming to the table, that, that both of us are responsible for each other's parts and the healing of those parts usually. And I think Will was talking about this in the very beginning of our conversation. Usually the narrative is that's yours to deal with. Go work on that, whether it's on your cushion or with a therapist, and then come back here once you're, you know, got your stuff together and then we'll be able to move forward. But here we're actually really taking co responsibility for our wounded parts to heal. And that's, I think, one of the powerhouses of our partnership. Because I can only heal so much of my by myself, whether it's with a therapist or something else. But together we can heal so much more. And so much more than becomes possible for me individually, but also us as a couple.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah, I mean, that lands a lot. Let's actually dive into the mechanics of agreements because, you know, it's one thing to just say, sit down and write down your agreements with, you know, but let's, let's get specific here, right? If we talk about creating a relationship agreement or a list of relationship agreements, let's start with just like one. What is the, what's the structure of a relationship agreement that actually works? Krista, you want to start us off?

[Krista van der Veer]

We have to both understand what the agreement is. It's not just like, okay, it's like if we say color blue, the color blue, we all separately think of a color, particular shade of blue, but we're not actually talking about the shade of blue. We're not actually talking about the same thing. So we have to really understand what it is that we're agreeing to. And it has to be applicable in some way. Like we have to know, okay, this is the moment that we can use that agreement. And there's obviously questions that we could ask to help people be like, where do we even start about what the content is? But for it to be useful, I think those two things have to be in place. And will, there might be other things that you're thinking of too.

[Will van der Veer]

I think they have to be mostly equally meaningful to both parties for both people to buy into them enough. So I think there are certain principles that I think work really well, like mutuality, fairness, justice, as a foundation of how two people can feel fulfilled in something that they're working on together. If it's a relationship, business partnership, what have you. And I think both people are going to get challenged in different ways at different times by different agreements. So that's, you know, maybe we went a little overboard. We have 24 relationship agreements, but having more than one, I think is useful for covering some of the landscape of what can go wrong and how you can get into tough spots together.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. So if I want to make sure I'm getting this right, it sounds like. Okay, so one, they have to be explicit. Like, you can't just bat it around and assume that you both know what you're talking about. And probably a good way to do it is literally write it down or record it. Record the audio, whatever it is, but actually memorialize it in some way. Mutual. You both look at this and you're nodding along and saying, we understand what this is. Our understanding is the same and we agree to it and that the language. The language really matters. You know, be specific and not ambiguous. Is there more or did I get anything off there?

[Krista van der Veer]

Both committed to it and they can see that. They can see why it would be supportive to their partnership.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Let's talk about some of your agreements and kind of break them down a little bit and see how they fall into this one of yours, from what I understand. And by the way, everyone sort of like joining us were we'll share a link to a downloadable A PDF where. I forgot what you guys call us, like the top 10 agreements or something like that where you can learn more and also learn more about. But so one agreement, and tell me if I'm getting this right, is we agree to gamble everything for love.

[Krista van der Veer]

Oh, that's such a good one.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Okay, walk me through this. Crystal. Let's start out.

[Krista van der Veer]

Okay, so I love that you asked this question because when Will and I realized that we are going to pursue a relationship together, we knew that if we didn't gamble everything for love that we didn't, we wouldn't create the kind of partnership we wanted. So this was the very first agreement that we made. And to us, it meant that we were gonna put it all on table. We were gonna, you know, address the rubs. We're gonna bring all ourselves forward, all the parts of us that even the ones that we hold back a little bit, we're gonna put it on the table to see what kind of partnership is actually here. So it includes taking a lot of risks, a lot of being a lot of vulnerabilities, bringing them forward. Will, what else would you add to that?

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I think it. It's a really helpful antidote for us personally because we come from. I mean, I come from the South, Krista's Midwestern. We. We come from this sort of buttoned up culture where you maybe would suppress or hold back or delete something that you really, really, really want, but you think it might irritate the other person or make them uncomfortable. Like investing in a coaching program that's really expensive, that's going to take me or Krista to the next level of our career expression, for example, or I really want that new bike or something, but it's really expensive and like, what's Krista going to think about that? Or so on?

[Krista van der Veer]

Or like I really want you to do something differently.

[Will van der Veer]

Yes.

[Krista van der Veer]

You know, that feels very vulnerable. Like I really want you to show up for me in a different way. Or I really was impacted by the thing that you did and here's how he's impacted and can we talk about that? Those kinds of things which we, we, I would say we really practice that today. And if we're not reviewing our agreements, though, we might get a little bit astray. But we come back to them.

[Jonathan Fields]

And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Nutrafol. So real change, it rarely comes from, you know, just one big moment. More often it comes from the small things that you do consistently, the quiet routines that add up. So when my wife, Stephanie hit menopause, the extra thinning and shedding really got under her skin. She was skeptical, started Nutrafol Women's balance about five years ago or so and kept going because the change felt steady and real. And over time she noticed less shedding, improved hair growth and more visible thickness. And that meant relief and confidence and just one less thing on her mind. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. One Let your hair become one less thing taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter the promo code goodlife. That's nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f o l dot com promo code goodlife. Good Life Project is sponsored by Pura. So after winter stillness, spring kind of

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

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[Jonathan Fields]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

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[Jonathan Fields]

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[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

So when you say we agree to gamble everything for love, everything in that sentence sounds like we're not talking about, you know, like a monetary value here. Although it may be like in part, you know, like if you're investing in something together. But it's really like everything is, it's emotional st. Like if I'm, if I'm concerned, if I'm feeling really vulnerable, if I'm upset, you know, I'm going to put that on the. I agree to bring that to the relationship. I agree to not just sit on it, but to actually surface it. And let's deal with it. Like, I'm going to gamble being uncomfortable, being rejected, being like being in an argument where I just really don't want to be arguing being wrong in the name of preserving this love that we have. Does that. Is that right?

[Krista van der Veer]

You should. You should write. You should write the next relationship agreements first because that was amazing. Yes.

[Will van der Veer]

Being willing to be messy and to show very much like you said, Jonathan, about being wrong, like, to. To. To show a neurotic, crazy, incorrect perception. You know, Krista, I have a story that you're judging the crap out of me right now. That's what I see on your face. Is that. Is that true? You know, and then it's like, well, yeah, it is true or it's not.

[Krista van der Veer]

It's usually not. What?

[Will van der Veer]

Usually not.

[Krista van der Veer]

Usually not what we're thinking about our partners and our faces. Yeah, there's a whole line of work around that.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

But yeah, so it's really about surfacing assumptions too, and risking being wrong about your assumptions and. But also also risking then resolution. It's like, oh, wow. Like, Krista, I thought, like, you were totally judging me and I'm feeling really a little upset and angry about it and. And then you're like, dude, I was literally thinking about what I'm buying. Like when I go to this, like, place.

[Will van der Veer]

Exactly.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Usually the case, you know, it's like what I'm gonna do with my friends, like down the road. It's those unspoken things. Right. That so often, relationships, it's what's not said, I think, that gets us so much more in trouble than what's actually said.

[Krista van der Veer]

Yes.

[Will van der Veer]

So true.

[Krista van der Veer]

Absolutely. And if we're not saying them, we don't understand what our capacity, our partnership has. We're not actually leaning in to see what's available to us in our connection.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

I think it was Chrissy who mentioned this earlier. But one of your agreements also is we agree to repair ruptures abundantly and stay in conversation. That's fancy language. Was actually me.

[Krista van der Veer]

Do you want to take a stab at that?

[Will van der Veer]

Well, so it's a common phenomenon I probably almost anyone can relate to is you're in an argument with someone you care about and they raise their hand or say something sharp and walk away and there's no completion of that experience. Maybe they come back in the room 10 minutes later and everyone's acting like nothing happened or that the moment is over, it's passed. And the person who might be tracking that or feeling that the moment hasn't passed and there's something left to do might not feel comfortable bringing it up. Right. So abundant repair is when, as we were talking about earlier, our litmus test is that our bodies are relaxed and want to be with each other. There's no more sense of concern or edge. It takes time sometimes to get to the abundant repair, but we do have an efficient strategy that we use. And Krista, do you want to tell Jonathan about it? I'm thinking about the one where one of us is really upset and the other one points to the couch.

[Krista van der Veer]

Couch time. Yeah. So this is, this is something that really helps co regulate each other. So that means basically like I'm not going off on my own and leaving the conversation to self regulate myself until I maybe feel ready for the conversation or maybe I'm not even going to go back into the conversation. But if one of us point to the couch, that means that usually there's one of us who's pretty activated and not regulated, not centered. We're pretty disrupted. And so the dysregulated person will lay on the couch on their back and the less dysregulated person will lay on top of them and will just breathe and breathe together until there's some sort of somatic relief in the system. And usually, you know, it happens after 30 seconds or a minute and then we can go back into the content. But really staying inside the conversation is the big point of this agreement.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Okay, does that really work? Because I'm just, I'm picturing one really pissed off person lying down on a couch facing up the other one lying down on top of them and the person on the bottom just being like. Now I'm even more bothered because I just lie here and like go into my own space and relax. But you're saying like this is actually a thing that legitimately works.

[Krista van der Veer]

Legitimately, there's, there's a couple things. Will. You probably know the science better, but for me it's like the pressure of Will. I'm, let's say I'm furious. And he points to the couch and I'm even like, heck no, I'm not going to the couch. But because we have this practice, I know that it works. And there's a part of me that actually I was like, okay, fine. When I feel his body on me, there's the weight and I start to, my body starts to relax. When I feel our chest breathing together. There's probably something related to mother, I'm guessing. Well, you might know, but like there's something that actually happens where if I'm willing And just settle down, my nervous system will literally calm down. And it might again, it might take a minute, but. But it does. Absolutely. At least for us. 100% success rate like it's never failed for us.

[Will van der Veer]

Well, I think there are a number of things going on. You know, there's the hormone oxytocin, the social connection hormone that gets activated when an infant and a mother are cuddling and there's breastfeeding going on and so on. I think that when two mammals who are in the same family are touching each other, that's happening. There's also interesting electrophysiology happening around heart rate variability and the autonomic nervous system and the social engagement system of the parasympathetic part of, you know, the vagal nerve. So there's a lot happening that tips the scale away from, you know, overdrive of fight or flight system toward more rest and digest. And it does seem to be more efficient than talking about things because when you're very activated, at least when I'm very activated, I often say things that I regret later, but it's better for me not to allow my vocal cords to be worked by a younger part of me that's really furious, at least in the heat of the moment.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. I mean, what's interesting to me here also is that. So we started out with this single agreement.

[Jonathan Fields]

We.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

We agree to repair ruptures abundantly and stay in the conversation, Right? Okay, so you agree to that, but then you get to a point where, like, there's a really major rupture, there's a big, fierce argument. And then, so you don't just leave it at the agreement. You're like, okay, so for us to honor this agreement, we need tools and strategies and maybe tools and strategies that we actually don't have at the time we're making the agreement. So then part of what you're agreeing to here is also saying if we don't have those, in order for us to, then we need to actually get them. We need to create them, we need to study them, we need to learn them. That's part of what we're talking about here. It's not just saying we're going to write down this agreement and try and honor it. It's like, we're going to write down this agreement because it matters to us. It lets us uphold the vision of the relationship that we want. It lets us create the union and the impact that we want to have within the relationship and outside of it. But maybe at the same time, we've got Some of the skills needed to actually honor it. But this matters so much to us that this is going to actually motivate us now to actually go and develop the skills and the strategies so that we can honor this, because it means a lot to me. So it's almost like it tells you where to spend your energy and what to invest in also.

[Krista van der Veer]

That's so well articulated. And when. And when we need it, and even when we're just trying to stay optimized as a couple, but also when we really need it, we'll bring in. We'll bring in support if we can't do it ourselves, which is another way of adding to our toolkit.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Yeah. So you shared that you have 24, 25 agreements between you.

[Krista van der Veer]

We have 24. We made it 25th about a year ago, but we can't remember what it is, so we'll say we're just going to stick with 24.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

The 25th agreement is actually to write down all future agreements. So we both remember thinking back over nine years together, seven years in marriage of those agreements. Do you have a sense for what the single hardest one has been to consistently honor? Chris is nodding. What do you got?

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah, well, Will actually said it before, which I was surprised you brought that one, but that was great. Which is. Which is the agreement to see each other with fresh eyes every day because of how hard it is to realize that every time we go away from each other, something's happened to us. We have new experiences, if we're lucky, we have new insights about ourself, or we, you know, move the needle in our own level of self development. And when we come back together, we're slightly a different person. And when we commit to seeing with each other with fresh eyes every day, we're committing to the aliveness and the generativity that actually we embody as human beings. And we're not like, I'm not looking at Will, and like, oh, here we go again. Here's Will. I already know who he is. I already know what he's gonna say. But it requires that I bring forward something that my brain isn't, you know, maybe habitually used to, which is seeing Will as a evolving, developing human being every minute of his life. Even if. If he's comfortable and, you know, not going after the growth mentality all the time. But he is. He's a different person. So that I think for both of us, Will is. Is the hardest agreement that we have.

[Will van der Veer]

It. It runs counter to what our brain wants to do in terms of conserving energy. When we've been around a person for a while, we tend to automatically assume the opposite of what Krista was describing. You know that. Okay, here's the. I know this person. There was a rabbi. I can't remember which rabbi.

[Krista van der Veer]

This.

[Will van der Veer]

I'm not Jewish, but there was a rabbi who said, the worst thing you can say about a person is, I know that guy. Which is a similar message of what we're talking about. How do we bring an elevated level of curiosity to every moment with each other? And that was something I learned from Krista for the first time, is that curiosity is a discipline and a practice. It's not something that just happens spontaneously. In my life prior to Krista, I thought, well, that's just something that I either have curiosity about this situation or I don't. And it's not my responsibility to stay in touch with curiosity.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

That really lands so powerfully with me. For both of you, this notion of especially, the longer you are. You're in a relationship with somebody, the more you've been through, the more you've had, like, versions of the same conversation, you just start to assume, I know this person. I know your towels. I know your values. I know your beliefs. I know everything about you. I know what you're thinking right now, what you're feeling and how you're going to respond. And you just assume like you know the next word out of a person's mouth. And it's just so often wrong, you know, and it leads to so much friction, so much conflict that doesn't have to happen totally.

[Krista van der Veer]

And as somebody, for both of us, I think Will and I both value really being seen and really being known by our partner. And that gets completely missed when we're operating from, I already know you, and

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

it's also a weird thing to say, but you don't know me. In a way, it's unsettling, you know, because it's like if we're both constantly in a process of growth and change and evolution, on the one hand, we want certain things to always be the same because we feel like that's the bedrock of a relationship. We're concerned that if we're constantly growing and changing, if the puzzle pieces individually are changing shape over time, that, you know, seven years, ten years from now, if they still fit the way they did in the beginning, that's not entirely within our control, and that creates a lot of fear. I think to a certain extent, we don't want the other person to be different. But then when they show up, the Same way, in a way that bugs you, you punish them for it. So it's like a total catch 22.

[Will van der Veer]

We want them to be different only in the ways that we want them to be different, only in a way

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

that somehow benefits us in exactly the way we want it to benefit. So somebody who's kind of joining us and saying this sounds really interesting. I'm open to the idea of relationship agreements. Where do I start? What would you say to them?

[Krista van der Veer]

My advice would be to start where the two of you, assuming you're in a partnership, where the two of you tend to have breakdowns and or continued, continued loops where you get stuck and can't quite get out of where you're getting stuck. And if you really look to see, okay, what am I doing in that moment? What are you doing in that moment? What do we want to be doing in that moment? Then you can start to really look to see, okay, what might the agreement need to be? Or what do we want it to be in order to make it through those stuck areas? That would be one area.

[Will van der Veer]

I think you could also ask the question, in addition to what Krista said of what is the. What are we up to as a couple? What are we committed to? What are we here to do together? Why are we together? And some couples get together every year and ask themselves that question with fresh eyes. And I think that's a beautiful practice.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

It's interesting that you said some people do it on a regular basis because I'm also thinking the way that you might step into this would be very different if it was a brand new relationship versus heading towards some major commitment versus a long time relationship, but maybe going through a major change like kids leaving the house or something like that. It's like, oh, wait a minute, we've had these like other beings in the home with us for 18, 20 years and it's been a blessing and incredible and also chaos and also a buffer. And now that's not there anymore, like, who are we? What do we stand for? Like what is our relationship? And then what are the agreements that we might sit down and make together to support this? And also probably even the question, like, are we on the same page with the fundamentals about like what this relationship is about? And you know, on the one hand it sounds like potentially really hard conversations, but at the same time not having them isn't really in service of anything good.

[Krista van der Veer]

Yeah, I think that's so well said.

[Will van der Veer]

Yeah, it's sort of this balance. I really appreciate what you said a few minutes ago. Jonathan about how scary it is to imagine that the person coming home from their workday is a different person from the one who left in the morning and how much fear we have as human beings of change and of not knowing what's going on. So that I think there's a balance of feeling that security and having a foundation under our feet, but also feeling the challenge, adventure of accepting that life is full of those changes that are always happening to us all the time and developing a way to meet those challenges as joyfully and sovereignly, if that's an adverb as possible.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

You know, yeah, there, there's. There's an energy in me that's always kind of said stasis is death individually. And I would imagine to a certain extent I share that same belief when it comes to the relationships that matter most to me. I don't know whether that's right or wrong. I just know for me, it's something that is something I've always believed and I've always felt. And maybe that changes for me over time too. Maybe seasons of my life that changes to a certain extent also where just stability and comfort becomes actually something that's much important to me. I'll hold the space for that. But yeah, it is interesting the way that we all dance individually with this notion of, you know, security, wanting the security and the stability and at the same time wanting everything that growth and evolution and change also gives to us. I don't think there's any one right answer, but it's a question that I constantly ask. Feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation in this container of good life project. If I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up? So, Krista, I'll ask that of you first.

[Krista van der Veer]

For me, to live a good life is to really be so deeply in contact with what's moving through me so that I can actually share that with others and support others in sharing with me. And I think that for me, the good life is really having deep, rich connections with the being with the beings around us. It brings me a lot of joy and goodness.

[Will van der Veer]

For me, I'm living my best life when I'm chasing ambitious goals of having impact in the world while at the same time balancing those activities with deep connection with myself and the people around me.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Thank you both.

[Jonathan Fields]

Hey, before you leave, be sure to tune in next week for our conversation with Dr. Deepika Chopra about toxic positivity

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

and how to be optimistic without tipping

[Jonathan Fields]

into delusion, distraction, or even harm. So be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields, editing helped by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Chris Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow

[Jonathan Fields]

Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts. If you found this conversation interesting or

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

valuable and inspiring, chances are you did

[Jonathan Fields]

because you're still here. Do me a personal favor, a 7 second favor and share it with just one person.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

If you want to share it with

[Jonathan Fields]

more, hey, that's awesome.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

But just one person? Even then, invite them to talk with

[Jonathan Fields]

you about what you both discovered, to

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

reconnect and explore ideas that really matter.

[Jonathan Fields]

Because that's how we all come alive together.

[Interviewer/Host (Jonathan Fields)]

Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields signing

[Jonathan Fields]

off for Good Life Project. Good Life Project is supported by Peloton so you know those times when life feels like it's moving at full speed and finding space to take care of yourself feels impossible? That's exactly when the right kind of movement can change everything. The new Peloton Cross Training Tread plus is built for that kind of life. It's Peloton's most elevated equipment yet. Powered by Peloton IQ with real time coaching and endless ways to move, run, lift, stretch or just reset, Peloton IQ helps you make progress without the guesswork. Its movement tracking camera counts your reps, correct your form and even suggests the right weight, so every workout feels purposeful. The swivel screen makes it easy to switch from a 45 minute run to a quick stretch and one smooth spin. And with personalized plans that match your energy, your mood, your goals, staying consistent suddenly feels simple. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go. Explore the new peloton cross training tread [e-mail] or just click the link in the show Notes

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