Good Life Project: The Power of Dabbling (Stop Trying to Be Awesome at Everything!) | Karen Walrond

Podcast: Good Life Project
Host: Jonathan Fields
Guest: Karen Walrond (author, speaker, photographer, leadership consultant)
Release Date: September 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the refreshing and counterintuitive notion that striving for mastery in all things—or even just one—may actually hinder our happiness and self-fulfillment. Jonathan Fields is joined by Karen Walrond to discuss the value of "intentional amateurism": actively choosing to pursue activities for sheer enjoyment, rather than focusing on proficiency or monetization. Drawing on her new book In Defense of Dabbling, Karen shares practical wisdom, personal experiences, and research-backed perspectives on why intentionally dabbling is essential for a good life, self-care, creativity, and even spiritual well-being.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Not Being “Awesome” At Everything Is Powerful

• Challenge to Mastery Culture: Both guest and host push back on the societal pressure to achieve excellence or monetize every passion.
  • "What if being intentionally not great at something or many things made you way happier, more fulfilled, and in love with your life?" (Jonathan, 00:01)
• Cultural Pressure: Karen highlights how our culture—amplified by social media—pushes us to compare and only try what we can master.

True/False Lightning Round on Dabbling (04:28–05:17)

Karen answers provocative statements to quickly capture the philosophy of intentional dabbling:

• “If you’re not working toward excellence, you’re wasting your time.” – False
• “Sucking at something can feel as good, if not better, than being amazing at it.” – True
• “If a hobby won’t make you money, it’s not worth it.” – False
• “Playtime is critically important to adult mental health.” – True
• “It’s more rewarding to devote yourself to a single deeply passionate pursuit than to many.” – It depends

The Value of Intentional Amateurism (05:46–09:19)

• Karen reframes dabbling as essential self-care, not just a lighthearted pastime:
  • “There is so much joy and self compassion and self transcendence that can come from doing something purely for the love of doing it… It’s just good for us.” (Karen, 05:46)
• Recommends separating what we do for profit/profession/perfection from what we do just for ourselves and joy.

On Slacking and Commitment (09:19–12:10)

• Jon raises concern that not striving for mastery is "slacking," but Karen counters this only matters for core responsibilities.
  • “Remember, what we're talking about here is an avocation… If I fail at it, if I become a slacker at it, so what? It’s a hula hoop. It’s not a big deal.” (Karen, 09:37)

Hobbies, Monetization, and Spiritual Practice (15:10–17:52)

• Karen pushes back on the pressure to monetize hobbies.
  • “Why would you want to have another job? … We’re just talking about what do you do to unplug, to be with yourself.” (Karen, 17:30)
• Hobbies can fulfill spiritual needs, offer mindfulness, and create flow states—especially for those for whom formal spiritual practices (like meditation) are a struggle.

Pleasure in Mediocrity and Failure (20:53–24:32)

• Both Jonathan and Karen share stories of intentionally being “bad” at something (pottery, metalsmithing) and finding satisfaction:
  • "Because I am freed of needing to be perfect at it... I get to settle into a sense of curiosity about what’s going to happen..." (Karen, 21:29)
• Failure without consequences invites self-inquiry, curiosity, and builds resilience for other areas of life.

Social & Internal Pressures to Sell Your Work (25:00–27:38)

• Both describe the external pressure to monetize (“Are you going to sell it?”) and the shift in joy that occurs when an avocation becomes commercialized.
  • “My knee jerk was, as soon as that person said it to me… I don’t want that.” (Jonathan, 25:46)
• Karen notes her pointed decision to never accept money for photography, preserving its joy.

The “One Thing” Myth and Dabbling vs. Deepening (32:29–36:11)

• Karen sees value in both focusing deeply on a single hobby or dabbling across many.
  • “Trying a bunch of different things to see…that’s really fun too, and it has its benefits.” (Karen, 33:52)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

On Play and Self-Compassion

• "For me, writing...even the fun stuff I don't do for pay, that for me, feels like honing my craft...I've made a very pointed decision to never accept money for [photography].” (Karen, 13:32)
• "If it's hard for you to do that [give yourself compassion], it's probably not your thing.” (Karen, 51:13)

On Connection & Community

• "If you can practice amateurism where you're connecting with family or friends or even strangers…that's a really healthy thing." (Karen, 55:53)

On Wonder and Awe

• “Practicing an art that’s been practiced for millennia...that’s the wonder and awe for me.” (Karen, 41:45)

The Seven Attributes of Intentional Amateurism (38:32–61:47)

Karen’s research identified 7 key attributes that signal an activity is “intentional amateurism”:

1. Curiosity: Scratching an itch for learning or trying new things.
   "What would happen if I do this? Constantly, like, what does that mean for me?" (Karen, 42:57)

2. Mindfulness: Being fully present in the activity, losing outside world concerns.
   “Going back and forth in the water…it allowed me to not only focus on exactly what I was doing, but sort of let go the thoughts that were going on in my head.” (Karen, 44:20)

3. Self-Compassion: Failing gently and forgiving yourself for not excelling.
   “It’s actually about being compassionate to yourself when you fail.” (Karen, 47:06)

4. Play: Doing something purely for enjoyment, not outcome.
   “Play generally doesn’t really have much of a purpose to it, you’re just doing it for the fun of it.” (Karen, 51:22)

5. Stretch Zone: Gently pushing your comfort boundaries, not recklessly.
   “Being like, okay, I know I can do this. What would happen if I just stretched a little bit farther?” (Karen, 52:16)

6. Connection: Sharing the activity with others, building community or experiencing “collective effervescence.”
   “Doing things in community…is really, really healing and nurturing.” (Karen, 56:55)

7. Wonder and Awe: Experiencing a sense of the extraordinary or our connection to something bigger.
   “Anytime we tap into either of those things, it actually helps us exercise an empathy muscle.” (Karen, 60:44)

Practical Tips for Finding Your Own Avocation (61:47–64:28)

• Review what you loved as a child or have always wanted to try.
• Try new things via online classes, YouTube, or with a friend.
• Notice which activities trigger two or more of the seven attributes.
  • “Pay attention to those seven attributes and when I do and don’t feel them, because I think they’re really valuable tells.” (Jonathan, 64:07)

Closing Reflections

• Living a Good Life:
  "To live a good life means curating and creating a little bit of joy every single day." (Karen, 64:41)

For listeners seeking more, Karen’s book has an appendix with 250 hobby ideas and an online quiz to help you get started.

Key Timestamps

• [04:28] – Quick-fire true/false on mastery, play, and value
• [05:46] – Why seeking mastery isn’t always necessary
• [15:23] – On refusing to monetize hobbies and finding spiritual fulfillment in avocations
• [20:53] – On the joys of being “bad” at something
• [21:29] – Pottery as practice in curiosity and non-perfection
• [38:32] – Defining intentional amateurism
• [42:57–61:47] – The seven attributes explained
• [61:47] – Finding your own dabbling path
• [64:41] – What it means to live a good life

Listen If You’re Wondering…

• Why it’s healthy to let yourself be “bad” at things
• How to resist pressure to monetize hobbies
• What to look for in a life-giving, joyful activity
• The link between play, mental health, and spiritual well-being
• How dabbling can build skills, resilience, and stronger relationships

Notable Quotes for Sharing

• "If you're tapping into things like play…it feels like you're scratching a curiosity itch, or you're tapping into wonder and awe—then you're probably doing it right."
  — Karen Walrond [38:52]

• "The whole point of amateur is to do it purely for the love of doing it. It's not supposed to be for profit or…it's not the same."
  — Karen Walrond [29:58]

• "There is so much joy and self compassion and self transcendence that can come from doing something purely for the love of doing it."
  — Karen Walrond [05:46]

To sum up:
This episode is a gentle but radical permission slip to enjoy, experiment, and embrace being “just okay”—if not downright bad—at the activities that make you come alive. Dabbling, according to Karen and Jonathan, is not only allowed but vital to wellbeing, connection, creativity, and happiness.