American Beauty 50, Episode 4: Operator

Summary

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GOOD OL’ GRATEFUL DEADCAST

American Beauty 50, Episode 4: Operator

Date: October 29, 2020
Theme:
A deep dive into "Operator," Pigpen's sole songwriting contribution to the Grateful Dead's American Beauty album, and a celebration of Ron "Pigpen" McKernan—the band's original frontman, bluesman, and enigmatic soul—with stories, rare archival material, and voices from those who knew him.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Rich Mahan and Jesse Jarnow, joined by guests and archival audio, spotlight "Operator"—track four on American Beauty. The episode explores Pigpen's unique musical voice, his background, his songwriting process, the rare performance history of the song, and his legacy within the Grateful Dead family. The episode also features an intimate journey through the Pigpen archives, including family memories, early influences, and unreleased materials.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Pigpen and "Operator" (00:00–07:27)

• Setting the Scene for "Operator"

  • Operator is Pigpen’s only songwriting contribution on American Beauty, and one of the few original songs he wrote for the Dead.
  • Pigpen wrote both music and lyrics—a rare occurrence for him with the band.
  • “Pigpen comes off as so authentic on this, as he did with everything he did.” —David Lemieux, Dead Archivist & Legacy Manager (05:37)

• Musical Context

  • As the Dead’s first frontman, Pigpen was known for his powerful performances on covers like “Turn On Your Lovelight,” but brought a different, more understated vibe to "Operator."
  • "Operator was sort of from left field… it wasn’t a blues tune." —Bob Weir (06:32)

Pigpen’s Songwriting & "Operator"’s Origins (07:27–12:28)

• Pigpen’s Evolution as a Writer

  • Early efforts included blues-based songs like “Taste Bud” (1966) and “Alligator” (with Phil Lesh and Robert Hunter).
  • Jerry Garcia noted Pigpen was most comfortable improvising blues late at night, guitar in hand (08:15).

• First Live Appearances

  • Pigpen performed “Operator” with the full band during rare acoustic sets in August–September 1970.
  • “He presented it to the band in rehearsal… we learned it very quickly, 20 minutes, maybe a half an hour.”—Bob Weir recalls easy collaboration and Jerry Garcia’s fingerpicking arrangement. (11:33)

Studio Sessions & Song Structure (12:28–19:27)

• Demo Recordings and Studio Takes

  • The band made early demos at Pacific High Studios, available on Angel Share: American Beauty.
  • The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame houses a draft of the lyrics in Pigpen’s handwriting, including alternate lines (e.g., “sniffing cocaine in the night,” ultimately altered for release).

• Collaborative Arrangements

  • Bill Kreutzmann’s iconic drum intro—the “fwappity dap bap”—stemmed from Weir’s playful session suggestions (16:36).
  • Studio camaraderie, playful banter, and technical experimentation are highlighted as archival engineer Brian Kehoe’s favorite moments (18:17).

Live Performances and Legacy (19:27–22:18)

• Scant Performance History

  • Only four recorded live performances of “Operator” exist, all from late 1970—making it a rare gem in the live Grateful Dead canon.
  • “It’s a shame they didn’t play this one live more often.” —David Lemieux (20:27)
  • Pigpen's final creative blossoming—including “Operator”—was tragically cut short by his early death in 1973 (21:55).

• Songwriting in Pigpen’s Final Years

  • Songs like “Mr. Charlie” and “Empty Pages” debuted in 1971.
  • Pigpen may have intended to pursue more solo work, evidenced by notebooks full of unpublished songs preserved by family and friends.

Pigpen’s Family, Influences, and Early Life (22:18–35:41)

• Family Context

  • Pigpen (Ron McKernan) grew up in Palo Alto, California. His father, Phil (a.k.a. DJ “Cool Breeze”), was deeply into R&B, radio, and science fiction, exposing Pigpen to a wide musical world (25:46).
  • Childhood friend Sully shares stories of Pigpen’s formative years—biking around Palo Alto, playing piano, and learning guitar from Jerry Garcia:
    “Pigpen’s room… was like a ghetto… he’d have a bottle of wine under the bed. … We’d play records. I’d hack away his guitar, show him stuff.” —Garcia (30:47)

• Early Setlists and Musical Tastes

  • Pigpen’s handwritten lists include blues, Chuck Berry, Beatles tunes—reflecting his broad but roots-oriented musical palette.

Personal Stories and Quiet Moments (35:41–43:05)

• Intimacy and Solitude

  • Friends and family remember Pigpen as introspective, enjoying moments alone with his records.
  • Private piano sessions, like Sully hearing Pigpen play “Stealin’,” illustrated his deep connection to music outside the stage persona (39:19).

• Pigpen and Psychedelia

  • Not a fan of psychedelics, Pigpen would seek out Lord Buckley comedy records to calm himself after rare “bad trips”—“It was likely the album he listened to in order to calm down.” —Sully (41:57)
  • Buckley’s “God’s Own Drunk” and “The Naz” became part of the Dead’s internal language.

The Pigpen Archives & Unreleased Material (44:44–56:33)

• Letters from the Road

  • Pigpen’s regular letters home from the Europe ’72 tour offered unique, down-to-earth insights and concern for his family.
  • “Paris sure is mellow in springtime. … It’s great. And we’re only here for a few days. Oh, forgot the Famous French whores. They’re here too.”—excerpt from Pigpen’s letter (44:44)

• Family Legacy and Band Connections

  • After Pigpen’s passing, his brother Kevin McKernan carried the musical torch, forming the band Osiris, which Jerry Garcia quietly supported by donating gear once part of the Dead’s legendary Wall of Sound (47:25–51:55).
  • Sully retains Pigpen’s song notebooks, unreleased tapes, and personal belongings, hinting at both lost potential and treasures yet to be shared:
    “There’s pages of songs that have never been published. … There’s some pretty good stuff.” —Sully (53:31)

What Was Lost, What Remains (56:23–59:32)

• Pigpen’s Unfinished Work

  • Pigpen’s notebook—visible during the Europe ’72 tour—shows a split between completed and ‘to work on’ songs, underscoring unfulfilled creative promise.
  • “I think, oh God, we, you know, just so much was lost when Ron passed.” —Sully (56:23)

• Enduring Wisdom

  • Rock Scully, Dead manager and Pigpen confidant, is remembered with humor, offering perspective on the passage of time:

  “I do remember what happened after. … 40 fucking years went by.” —Rock Scully (59:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Pigpen was the real deal.” —David Lemieux (05:37)
• “It was kind of a surprise to me, and you know, I lived with him at that point… This one came out of nowhere.” —Bob Weir on “Operator” (07:22)
• “He was a masterful country blues guitarist.” —Michael Parrish (10:35)
• “It’s a shame that they didn’t play this one live more often.” —David Lemieux (20:27)
• “Pigpen and Pigpen alone was on the very first Grateful Dead shirt.” —(22:18)
• “His [Phil McKernan] passion was being a DJ and the music. He would kind of disappear into his man cave…” —Sully (27:56)
• “I sat in his room for countless hours listening to his old records. It was funky, man. … he’d have a bottle of wine under the bed.” —Jerry Garcia (30:47)
• “Some of his favorite times were just hiding out in his room, listening to his records.” —Sully (39:19)
• “There’s pages of songs that have never been published… Optimistic life lessons, things, you know. The man was very introspective, I think.” —Sully (53:31)
• “40 fucking years went by.” —Rock Scully (59:32)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Setting up Pigpen’s Story: 00:00–05:12
• "Operator" in the Grateful Dead Studio & Onstage: 05:12–19:27
• Pigpen’s Family, Early Life, and Musical Roots: 22:18–32:24
• Home Life and Musical Influences: 28:15–29:45
• Warlocks & Early Dead Setlists: 32:30–34:23
• Family Memories & Home Moments: 39:13–43:05
• Europe ‘72 Letters & Reflections: 44:44–45:45
• Pigpen’s Legacy, Vault, and Songbooks: 53:12–56:33
• Rock Scully and the Passage of Time: 59:08–59:32

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, heartfelt portrait of Pigpen, spotlighting his authentic voice, musical instincts, and foundational role in both the Grateful Dead and his own family’s musical legacy. Through rare session audio, family stories, and unreleased archives, Operator emerges as a window into what made Pigpen singular—and a poignant reminder of what was lost with his early passing.

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Transcript

[A]

Announcing Dogfish Head Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale Collaborating for over a decade now, Dogfish Head and Grateful Dead have crafted a light bodied pale ale brewed with sustainable kerns of grains, granola and heaps of good karma for a refreshing brew that's music to your taste buds. Check out dogfish.com for more details and to find some Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale in your neck of the woods. Dogfish Headcraft Brewery is located in Milton, Delaware. Please drink responsibly the Good Old Grateful Dead Cast the Official Podcast of the Grateful Dead I'm Rich Mahan with Jesse Jarno exploring the music and legacy of the Grateful Dead for the committed and the curious. Welcome back to the Good Old Grateful Dead Cast. This episode continues our celebration of the music on American Beauty as we dive into track four on side one Operator. You would be correct to assume we are going to talk about Pig Pig Pen quite a bit in this episode, and we'll be taking a very rare dive into the Pig Pen archives to illustrate our story. If this is your first time joining us, we invite you to also check out the 10 episodes from season one, which dove headfirst into the eight songs on Working Man's Dead and also serves up two fun bonus episodes. Both albums are celebrating their 50th anniversaries this year and each episode offers something special we hope you enjoy. You can always get the latest episodes and link to your favorite listening platforms at our website dead.netdeadcast here. We also feature companion materials for each episode so you can fall down ever deeper into the rabbit hole. And this Pig Pen Operator episode offers some especially gander worthy specimens. Please help this podcast by subscribing hitting that like button and if the spirit moves you leave us a review. Very kind of you feel. Thank you very much. It is the 50th anniversary of American Beauty and the Grateful Dead have prepared a 3 CD set reissue of this classic album, which includes a pristine remastering of the album's 10 tracks as well as an unreleased live show from February 18, 1971 at the Capitol Theater. Along with this impeccably remastered 3 CD set, we also offer you a new batch of Angel Share Audio out now. Not only are the full band acoustic demos for American Beauty, but also the rest of the studio outtakes from the American Beauty recording sessions. Be sure to check out the Angel Share American Beauty audio at your favorite streaming service or download provider. That's right, you can buy it, download it, add it to your collection now. Well, my fine Pig Pen fan club friends this is your episode. We are going fearlessly into Operator Pigpen's sole songwriting contribution on American Beauty. And we are all going to hear not only about this fine composition that Pig wrote both the music and the lyrics for, but also about the man himself from some folks that knew him very well indeed. So please do enjoy as we shine a spotlight on one of the original members of the quintessential quintet, Ron Pigpen. McKernan.

[B]

I think she's somewhere down south down about Baton Rouge But I just can't remember a number A number I can use Directory don't have it Central forgotten. Got to find a number to use.

[C]

You want to hear a Pig Pen?

[D]

I don't think he heard you.

[B]

I want to hear it a little louder.

[E]

I still don't think he heard you.

[D]

Maybe he ought to do it a little.

[B]

All right.

[C]

And ladies and gentlemen, now here he.

[D]

Is, a dog sucking his man in. Joe, this is Pigpen.

[C]

You've all met Pigpen, right?

[B]

Cause she got boxed back in the day, working undercover with a.

[C]

That was Turn on youn Love Light, recorded April 15, 1970, at Winterland in San Francisco. Released a few years ago on the 30 trips around the sun box set, Turn on youn Love Light was the Showcase for Ron McKernan, better known as Pigpen. It took up a whole side of live dead in 1969. It's probably what most people associate him with. Cumulatively, the Dead probably spent more time playing Turn on youn Love Light than Darkstar in the late 60s, finishing nearly every show with it. Pigpen was the band's first frontman and set closer, and he would become known for his role on songs like Love Light, Caution, and Good Lovin until his untimely death in 1973 at the age of 27. But on American Beauty, like the rest of the Grateful Dead, Pigpen presented something different.

[B]

Operators, can you help me? Help me if you please Give me the right area code and the number that I need my ride or left up on the midnight flyer Singing like.

[C]

A summer breeze Grateful Light archivist and legacy manager David Lemieux.

[F]

Operator. The rare Pigpen solo song, he did it all on this. It's a song that, when I was a kid, I could visualize this song. It's a very literal song. And he's singing what he's saying and what he's feeling. And Pigpen comes off as so authentic on this, as he did with everything he did. Pigpen, you know, whether he's singing about, you know, really anything and whether it's A cover song or an original. Pigpen was the real deal. And I get that when I listen to.

[B]

I think she's somewhere down south, down about Baton Rouge, but I just can't remember no number. A number I can use. Directory. Don't have it.

[C]

Central.

[B]

Done. Forgot it. Got to find a number to use.

[C]

So where did Operator come from? Not even Grateful Dead guitarist Bob Weir knows for sure.

[E]

You know, Pigpen was. Christ, what was he? Sort of an Irish poet, You know, Irish, Scottish. He had that going. You know, he drank a bit and he had that sensibility about him as a musician is concerned. He was a pretty damn competent musician, sort of a scholar of the blues. But Operator was sort of from left field as far as, like. It wasn't a blues tune.

[G]

It was a.

[E]

You know, he used some blues sort of ideology in some of his lines, but really, musically, it was something else. And I'm not sure I could label it, but I wouldn't consider it anything resembling a blues. It was kind of a surprise to me, and, you know, I lived with.

[D]

Him at that point.

[E]

I thought I knew the kind of stuff he had up his sleeve. But this. This one came out of nowhere.

[C]

Pigpen wasn't a total stranger to songwriting, but it was all pretty blues. Based on. In 1966, with Taste Bud, he was one of the first members of the Dead to test the waters. The band recorded a version for their debut LP the next year, featuring Pigpen playing piano. And you can hear this outtake on the Golden Road box set and subsequent expanded editions of the album.

[B]

Woke up way after midnight People Just a little while A little wild for days I couldn't find no satisfaction Turned my pillow with my baby lay.

[C]

Later, in 1967, Alligator was among the first sets of lyrics that Robert Hunter mailed the band from New Mexico, and Phil Lesh and Pigpen set them to music. According to Hunter, Pigpen added a verse of his own that was from the expanded edition of Two from the Vault, recorded on August 24, 1968, at the shrine in LA. But Pigpen's natural habitat was late at night and far from the stage. As Jerry Garcia recalled to Blair Jackson, Pig Pen's best shot was sitting around a room with a bottle of wine and an acoustic guitar playing Lightning Hopkins. He could improvise lyrics endlessly. That was his forte. When the Dead started playing acoustic sets in early 1970, it was a perfect fit for Pigpen, even if he did sometimes seem reluctant.

[D]

We're gonna have Pigpen come out and do some tunes.

[C]

That is if we can find him.

[D]

He'S in the office. Well, go on, pig.

[B]

Hey, pig.

[C]

Somebody go knock on the office door, man.

[D]

That's it.

[C]

Just beat on it. These bits are from April 18, 1970, the Family Dog, released on vinyl in 2013. If you're a Pig Pen fan, you'll want to track it down. It's got an extra long solo set. Here's a little bit of Roberta, a traditional song rewritten by Pigpen.

[B]

Early in the morning and just before is dawning.

[D]

You know you come walking in the.

[B]

Door.

[D]

Said you just been been out.

[B]

Walking.

[D]

Been walking a while.

[C]

Here's Michael Parrish, who began seeing the Dead as a teenager in the bay area in 1969 and would become a serious acoustic guitarist himself.

[G]

I think that Pigpen's really underrated as a musician. You know, people think of him as the frontman and that he kind of played really simple organ. But what to me is really impressive again from 1970, is those many sets that Pigpen did a few times. There's that really nice long one on the Family Dog show. And he was a masterful country blues guitarist.

[C]

When Michael caught the Dead at the Fillmore west in August 1970, he was in for a surprise, a new Pig Pen song.

[G]

Up to that time when they'd done acoustic sets, you know, Bob would like Drag Pig out. And he seemed a lot of times not to want to do it, but he just played by himself. You know, he'd just do incredible finger picked country blues guitar. But when they did Operator in those shows in both August and September, it was a full band. It's very different from what he was doing in the clubs in the Bay Area in the early to mid-60s when he was playing by himself.

[C]

It was very likely the first time they played it. Bob Weir remembers it being easy to learn.

[E]

I think he might have presented it to the band in rehearsal and it was simple enough so we could learn it. We learned it very quickly, you know, 20 minutes, maybe a half an hour. By the time we had a good firm grip on it. I think he played it on the guitar, on a little Gibson that he had. Jerry came up with a sort of a finger picking part. I don't remember what I was doing on it, but it'd come back to me if I were playing it.

[C]

The Grateful Dead made their first demo recording of operator early in August 1970 at Pacific High in San Francisco, which you can now hear on the Angel Share American Beauty, available from your nearest local streaming service. Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir are both playing Acoustic guitars, Jerry holding down the lead figure that runs through the song. Pigpen is just singing. It's barely two and a half minutes. Let's just listen to the whole tune, starting with the voices of engineer Phil Sawyer and bassist Phil Lesch.

[D]

Operator. Hey, Pig Pen, let's do Operator.

[C]

Where's that capo?

[D]

Where's that capo? Are we rolling? Okay, let's start.

[B]

Operator, can you help me? Help me if you please Give me the right area code and the number that I need My rider left on the midnight fire Singing like a summer be I think she's somewhere down south down about that room But I just can't remember a number A number I can use the rector don't have Central for God Got to find a number to use Trying to check out a number Trying to run down the line Operatorship that's privilege information and it ain't no business of mine Just flooding Texas Are down in Utah about to find a private line she could be hanging around the steel mills Working in a house of blue lights Riding a little re bus out of parkland Talk to the night don't care where she's going I don't know where she's been I hope she been doing it right.

[D]

The.

[C]

Rock and Roll hall of Fame has a draft of the Operator lyrics in Pigpen's handwriting, donated by Robert Hunter. It's probably not a first draft, given how neat the handwriting is, though it does have a few alternate lyrics. On the final version of the song, Pig would sing riding a getaway bus out of Portland, talking to the knight. In this draft, he offers a pair of alternative completions. Instead of talking to the knight. In one, she's riding the getaway bus out of Portland to the warm California knights. In another, she's sniffing cocaine in the night, a line that Pigpen would continue to alter in the song's few live versions. The draft also includes the chords for a possible bridge with a question mark next to them, though no accompanying words. If you'd like to try playing it, though, those chords are D minor, G6, A minor, C, D minor, F Operator is one of the songs the band tackled during the initial sessions for American Beauty at Pacific High a little bit later in August, which you can also hear on the angel share American Beauty.

[D]

1, operator, reel 3.

[C]

Here, Bob Weir raises a very pertinent suggestion.

[B]

Hey, wait a minute. I can't hardly hear Jerry in the phones.

[C]

It's a technical term. Wearers ignored. At first, there's some goofing around, but Weir presses his Point two.

[D]

With that cigarette thief. Hey, come right in. Hey. With the harmonica.

[E]

I want to talk to Nixon. Rat.

[D]

Hey, wait, wait, wait. Hey, I think we ought to have.

[B]

A flat bit of dap dap. Don't do it.

[D]

Don't do it.

[B]

No, please.

[C]

Okay. If you're unclear what a fappity dapap is, musically speaking, listen to take three, in which Bill Kreutzman incorporates Weir's suggestion and adds the distinctive fwappity dap bap drum fill entrance that became part of the song's intro. It's not quite exactly as Weir originally suggested it. A cool piece of collaborative arrangement. The Operator session is one of the most fun on the Angel Share. Like take four, where Pig totally spaces. I love the way the phrase one more time pig pongs around the group mind here.

[B]

Four. Once again, you guys. Six. Oh, that's it. Yeah. Operator. You piece of pigment, Piece of operator.

[C]

This session is an absolute favorite of archival engineer Brian Kehoe, who logged many hours enhancing these microscopic bits of conversation and musical arranging on the Angel Share.

[G]

That is the session, which is actually my favorite highlight. And I gotta tell you, of all these tracks and all these minutes of listening, it's Bill Kreutzman, who's obviously, evidently a really good friend with Pigpen. My friend Justin Kreutzman tells me that Pigpen used to babysit his sister when the parents wanted a date night. I mean, they were close to each other. And Bill is having a go at Pig Pen, and Pig Pen's whacking it back at him, hitting him hard, and they're just whispering into their mics now. I spent a long time because we couldn't hear what they were saying. They were whispering to each other in the room or doing stuff to just have a dig at each other and make each other laugh. And I made it loud so you can finally hear what they're saying. They're just saying funny shit to each other, and I just love it.

[D]

Kreitzman eats it.

[C]

Pig Pen's a piece of shit, and he knows Shakedown Stream and Tales from the Golden Road co host Gary Lambert.

[D]

I love Operator. I was sorry. It has a scant performance history, and it was also really sort of a tantalizing suggestion of where Pigpen might have fit in going forward in the grateful day in that new kind of turn their music had taken with Working Man's and American Beauty because it spoke so clearly to Pigpen's love for country blues. The Lightning Hopkins, Mississippi John Hurt kind of feel. And, yeah, it fit him like a glove. And it also fit the Grateful Dead, so sadly, it didn't last long in the repertoire. And far more sadly, Pigpen didn't last that much longer.

[C]

The performing history of Operator truly is scant on tape. There are only four versions between August 18, 1970, and November 8 of that year. Three are acoustic, one electric. Unfortunately, all of these versions fall within a very particular gap inside the Grateful Dead's official tape collection, which happens to begin in the summer of 1970. Grateful Dead archivist David Lemieux It's a.

[F]

Shame that they didn't play this one live more often. There's, you know, how many, A half a dozen maybe. And they're all that little fall of 70 time period. They are all good. And it's a nice little concise song. It's less than three minutes, I think, and it's nice and concise and it seems like a fun song to play. And again, it's one of those songs that, you know. Again, I don't ever question why they do what they do and don't do what they do. But boy, I sure would have loved to have heard this when Pig was front and center in the summer of 71.

[C]

During that summer of 1971, the grateful that it's first sets took on a new format in which Jerry Garcia, Bob Weir, and Pigpen took almost even turns leading the band, with Pigpen introducing new originals, including Mr. Charlie and Empty Pages. There's some evidence that Pigpen may have even played an entire solo gig at the very end of that summer. A pair of newspaper listings in the Oakland Tribune advertises that Pigpen was to play the Gold Street Club in San Francisco in early September 1971. Some fans turned up for one of the shows, only to be told that the listing was wrong and the gig had been the previous week. A few weeks later, Pigpen entered the hospital, his health taking a serious downward turn. His last performance with the Dead was the following summer, and he died at the age of 27 in March 1973. It was an incredible tragedy on many levels. One of them is that in Pigpen's last years, he was actually in the midst of a creative flowering that in some sense seemed to begin with Operator.

[E]

In recent years, we've brought that back around in the various bands that I've been playing in. I never sang it. Maybe I should give it a try. I might want to take a crack at it. But it merits something because, you know, if there's a story there, it's tight. Everything about it is tight. The imagery is tight. You know the music just fine.

[C]

So who was Pigpen? Pigpen was the Grateful Dead's frontman. Pigpen and Pigpen alone was on the very first Grateful Dead shirt. He presented an imposing figure. Here's a little bit from an interview on San Francisco's KFRC in 1966.

[D]

Around the table will go meet First Pigpen. What a horrible name.

[C]

My fault.

[D]

Jerry gave it to me.

[E]

What's your real name?

[D]

Ron. Ron Pigpen.

[E]

Who would influence you?

[D]

Oog, mostly blues people. White and Hopkins, John and the more modern bags like Bobby Bland and Little Junior Parker and Little Walter and those kind of people.

[C]

He was an important part of Mother McCree's Uptown Jug Champions, the acoustic jug band that preceded the Dead. Here's Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir discussing Pigpen's role on k San in 1969. Released on a CD in 2001 as Great Troll Dead documentary.

[B]

Back when we were doing the jug.

[C]

Band, we were doing a few, like, rhythm and blues numbers, and we were doing some, like, Jimmy Reed tunes.

[E]

And the nucleus of the Jugman really was sort of me, Jerry and Pigpen. Pigpen has a really rich and varied background, particularly in blues. I think he started out playing blues piano. His father was a rhythm and blues disc jockey for a while, and I think that's what got him into it. And so anyway, he was just perfect for the Joke Band. He was the inspiration behind our rhythm and blues singing, which catapulted us into the rock and roll phenomenon.

[C]

To talk about Pigpen more deeply, we welcome to the Dead cast Sully. Sully is part of a deep branch of the extended Grateful Dead family. He's connected to the band Osiris of Palo Alto, California, and more specifically was best friend to Osiris, late vocalist and organist Kevin McKernan, little brother of Pigpen. Sully is in many ways the keeper of Pigpen's legacy. When Kevin died in 1993, it was Sully who received what Kevin and the McKernan saved of Pigpen's archive. And we are just incredibly excited today to discuss Pigpen's life and music with Jim Sullivan and take a tour through the collection.

[D]

Well, I just grew up a block away and Kevin and I were within a year of each other. Ron's younger brother. So, you know, we just kind of walked the same path back then. And we both really liked bicycles. Kevin and I were real, and I still am, just real dedicated bicycle riders. Back then. Having a car was. I mean, to some folks it was a real desirable thing. But to us, you know, miscreants, we just detested the whole motor vehicle mentality and so we just rode bicycles.

[C]

Sully has posted many of his incredible artifacts in the Facebook group called the cult of Ron McKernan. If you'd like to see some of the items we're describing, we've posted links to a bunch of individual [e-mail] deadcast. One of the earliest items in the collection is an undated newspaper clipping from the Palo Alto times, probably from 1963 or 1964, in which a teenage R.C. mcKernan of 2338 Santa Catalina Ave. Protests against the Selective Service act and declares himself to be a conscientious objector. After a bureaucratic mishap. The young Pigpen declared, in my opinion, the Selective Service people are a bunch adults. He concludes, I will not and will not be forced to harm my fellow man in any way, shape or form. Therefore, God is love and killing. Training to kill, or even being in the armed forces for that matter is doing dirt to mankind.

[D]

Palo Alto was, I don't want to call it intellectual community, but there was a lot of folks thinking, you know, beyond the standard march in place stuff, you know, Ron's family was definitely a part of that thought pattern. You know, there was no frothing at the mouth, you know, love it or leave it stuff. And Ron's family was, you know, they weren't rabble rousers in any way, shape or form. They were probably some of the mellowest people you'll. You'd ever even, you know, pass them on the street. You'd never, they didn't put on airs. They were very accessible people. And especially for us youngsters, you know, back then, you know, anybody over 21, you know, my God, you know, that's ancient, you know, but Here are these 34 late 30s, 40 year olds that actually talked to us like human beings, and about half the time we didn't return the favor. But, you know, over time you kind of grow to realize that that was very uncommon. They weren't necessarily, you know, out tossing Molotov cocktails or anything, which a lot of people were. They were just folks that encouraged us, younger folks to think beyond what was placed in front of us, you know, if that can be considered radical or so be it.

[C]

In fact, Esther and Phil McKernan weren't just cool parents. Phil McKernan himself could claim absolute hipster status. As a teen, he'd been a deep science fiction fan and poking around the deep reaches of the world Wide Web. You can find traces of his sci fi fandom in his own letters to editors in publications like Astounding Stories and Super Science Stories. And his obsessions grew to include both radio and music. He did a stint at KHSL in Chico, but throughout the 40s, his radio home was KRE in Berkeley, where he served as the chief engineer and chief announcer, as well as DJ'd RB under the name Cool Breeze. Check out some of the pictures Sully's posted. There's one of young Phil McKernan looking very much like someone named Cool Breeze. It's hard to tell if he's dressed up and posing, but the photo involves the contemplation of a bottle of booze, leather pants and leather jacket, and a cigarette dangling from Phil's mouth.

[D]

His passion was being a DJ and the music. He would kind of disappear into his man cave. Very small room in the back of the garage. You know, we could hear music playing. He had it set up so he could preview his radio shows. And he didn't want us goofballs screwing with his, you know, equipment.

[C]

Lining the walls were Phil McKernan sci fi paperbacks.

[D]

He was very much into, you know, sci fi, Dreaming of the stars and beyond and, and, you know, things that just were out of the norm. He had a tremendous collection of 40s and 50s sci fi paperbacks. Yeah, he was very much tuned into that. And I know that that definitely influenced his kids, you know, because they were available for them to read along with pig pen stuff.

[C]

Jim wound up with a large chunk of Phil's record collection.

[D]

He had a lot of 45s and he had some albums and he was very meticulous about screening them. So, you know, I've got this big stack of albums that, you know, he has all his handwriting on them, how he's defined whether they were worth playing, and SG sounds good in dead history.

[C]

Phil McKernan is remembered as being an R and B fan because of the music Pigpen loved, but his tastes were wide and deep.

[D]

A lot of his stuff is swing too. You know, he had a lot of big band stuff. You know, his repertoire was extensive. Ron was more the blues, you know, guy. But Phil was very broad spectrum music. He was just, you know, post-40s, you know, some. Some earlier. But he was very much into a lot of different music that Ron Kerry picked him. He found what he liked right away and ran with it.

[C]

I found some evidence of Phil McKernan's DJ career. On a typical day at KRE, he might have hosted the Coffee club in the morning, followed by a Masterworks concert and the more pop oriented turntable twirlings. By the time Pigpen was growing up though, Phil took a lab engineer job at Stanford, his DJ days behind him. Phil's collection also included a number of home press discs.

[D]

Back then you could record onto vinyl, you know, for his show, you know, recordio disc Wilson Gay, you know, you can record. This is just a guess. He had the ability to record at the radio station. So there's, you know, quite a few records that I have no idea what's on them.

[C]

One such disc is dated Bing Crosby 3342. Others don't have dates at all. But it's clear that Phil McKernan was a for real music head, kind of a taper even.

[D]

He was very capable. He's a phenomenally intelligent guy. I mean, just my conversations with him, I felt like a bug talking to Albert Einstein.

[C]

Young Ron McKernan played piano at home, but learned to play guitar from one of his friends, Jerry Garcia. Three years older than Ron, it was Garcia that showed him the fundamentals of Lightning Hopkins style blues guitar. I spent a lot of time over at the Pig Pen house, Garcia told Blair Jackson. But it was mostly in Pigpen's room, which was like a ghetto. I sat in his room for countless hours listening to his old records. It was funky, man, stuff thrown everywhere. Pigpen had this habit of wearing just a shirt and his underpants. You'd come into his house and he'd say, come on in, man. And he'd have a bottle of wine under the bed. His mom would come in about once every five hours to see if he was still alive. It was hilarious. But yeah, we'd play records. I'd hack away his guitar, show him stuff. Kevin and Sully made trouble biking around Palo Alto and watched as Kevin's older brother got real about music.

[D]

Ron would practice, you know, at the home. So, you know, this is like 65, 66. And the age difference was I think about seven years. He was seven years our senior. Ron would play in the garage with his stuff and so we, you know, we'd hear that. And of course, you know, again, you know, you're the curse of youth. You're just so cool. You're just like, you know, later, man. You know, And Ron's playing, he was, you know, he was a serious dude. I mean, the few times I'd seen him at the house, it was very dismissive. It was pretty much punk. Get out of here. You know, you know, it's just the way of the world. But I. I do remember those. Him practicing in the garage with a number of his friends. You know, I didn't get any names, but I'm pretty sure they were future bandmates.

[C]

In his teens, Pigpen started playing at local clubs and parties, accompanying himself on guitar.

[D]

The Tangent, which was in University Avenue, was one of the very few bohemian upstairs clubs. And, you know, one of the things I inherited was, you know, Ron was. He'd write up his own pr, his own posters.

[C]

Also included was a rough draft for one of the flyers, clearly folded and refolded several times. And on the back of this rough draft is one of the most curious documents in Grateful Dead studies. In Pigpen's handwriting, a list of 31 songs.

[D]

Too Much Monkey business, you know, who do you love? I'm a man, you know, Walking the Dog. A lot of Chuck Berry, you know, that was rock and roll. Follow the Sun. There's some Beatles in there. And it had to be, you know, right around that time. Can't Buy me Love. There was really no provenance, but it's obviously really early. You can tell it's all folded up. And he just folded it up and stuck it in his pocket. And then when he got home, he probably just shoved it in a drawer. So where and when lost to time, I don't know.

[C]

Point yourself to dead.net deadcast. Follow the link and see for yourself. There's some familiar song titles on there that are pretty easy to find on Dead tapes. Big Boss Man, Not Fade Away, It's a Sin, and there are a number of songs on that list that show up in obscure corners of the Dead's tape canon. Who do you love? Walking the Dog, Something on your mind. But mainly the list features songs that could have been played by the Warlocks, or not. There's that'll Be the Day by Buddy Holly, I'll Follow the Sun, Babies in Black, and Can't Buy Me Love by the Beatles, a few Chuck Berry tunes, Boom Boom by John Lee Hooker, and more. It's probably not a set list, since the Dead probably wouldn't play a number of Chuck Berry covers right in a row. One reasonable guess is that it's a list that Pigpen made to brainstorm possible songs the band could play. It's fun to look at and speculate.

[D]

They did practice in the garage, you know, so that was kind of cool at the, you know, Palo Alto garage. And I was just sitting outside, you know, because Kevin and I were, you know, in the midst of some Important nonsense.

[C]

Sully remembers one experience in what is now a quite ritzy area of post tech boom Palo Alto. The Warlocks may have played or they might not have. Things are a little fuzzy.

[D]

Seem to remember one story about, you know, the band playing some house party. You know, it's up in this neighborhood that now is just like all the bazillionaires live there and it's the Los Tranquil woods is the neighborhood and that used to be the cheap living. That's where you go for the she shared housing thing. And actually I have a really good memory there. It was the first party I ever went to that there was people walking around naked. You know, now you'd have to form a group and have counseling and all that stuff, but it was like kind of one of those eureka moments where I'm looking around at these naked people. I'm going, you know, kind of like people with clothes on a lot better, myself included. You know, it's like, you know, here comes a naked guy walking into the room. Move on.

[C]

Mr. Also in the stash is a piece of staff music paper with the musical staffs completely ignored and in Jerry Garcia's handwriting, the words and structure for Can't Come Down. It's likely the band's first truly original song with Garcia's most Dylan esque lyrics. It's got enough crossed out lines that it might actually be a first draft. Here it is at the band's first studio session in November 1965, just a few weeks before they renamed themselves the Grateful Dead, released later on Birth of the Dead. PIGPENS PLAY IN HARMONICA so as I.

[B]

Dream of forgotten seas and granite walls and redmond trees, and of the eyes that only sees endless mirrors and infinite knees, and about the winter's coming freeze this afternoon, I say with peace to all of you who make your peace.

[C]

When the Dead got more serious, Kevin and Sully made it to shows.

[D]

Kevin and I, you know, basically like any teenagers, we're following our cocks around like cabooses. You know, we get Ron to get us in backstage and, and you know, we were there trying to not let on, staying out of the way of the hubbub. But also it's like whatever mind altering substance was available. I mean, one was good. Well, five had to be better, you know, went to a few free shows in the Panhandle and out at the Polo Fields. And again, you know, I mainly go just because we could get a slight advantage, because we could go where a big crowd wasn't able to go and you know, it was cheap living. When they put out their first album, Kevin was real stoked about it. Hey, check this out. It's my brother's album. And of course, again, the dumbass cool teenager thing, it's like, oh, yeah.

[C]

Though Pigpen moved with the Grateful Dead, first to la, then to San Francisco, he returned to Palo Alto often, whenever.

[D]

Ron would visit, you know, Ron was always at that table with Esther and occasionally Phil. Carol was there too. But it was like his safe zone, you know, it was like a place he could go and he knew he'd drop any sort of. He didn't need to do that, you know, And I don't think he did it much anyway. But Esther was just such a kind hearted. She was like super mom in my view, you know, I can still hear her voice now, you know, I can still hear her voice and her, you know, just her kindness. I'd knock on the door on Santa Catalina and I'd look in and I'd see Ron just sitting there next to his mom, away from the, from the hubbub. And it just really was a key aspect of his life then, you know, I mean, I don't know what was going on with the band or anything. I don't wouldn't pretend to know jack shit about that. But I just know when he came home, you know, I knocked him door, I'd see him sitting there. Sometimes he'd answer. And of course, you know me, you know, hey, fucking kid. It's like your balls end up in your throat. It's like, fuck, there he is. Go, he's Kevin around? And. Yeah, just a minute. And hey, kid. Hey, your asshole friends here, you know, like, he called me asshole man. Wow, what a treat.

[C]

Every now and then, Sully got a glimpse of Pigpen, the musician. Like one morning when it was taking Kevin forever to get up, I was.

[D]

Sitting outside, right outside the back door. And Bronze, the piano they had there is the one he learned on this great big old giant thing. I think I've posted a couple of pictures of it. My son has it now. He's actually put it in storage because it's a whopper. It's a big one. But my boy knows it's like, hey, this one, you know, it's important, you know, this is the one pig Ben learned on. And I was sitting just outside and he played stealing, you know, he played stealing on that piano. And you know, this had to be like probably 68, maybe 67. 68. And it was like, hey, I know that song, you Know that. That. That's. That was on one of the little 45s, you know, that Kevin got from his brother. You know, his brother was very. You know, he shared things, a few things with his little brother. I mean, you know, besides being annoyed with him, he still was bloodline and. But just hearing, you know, hearing Ron play stealing was, again, it's a. It's a real treat. You know, he liked his quiet time. You know, his stage Persona was very wonderful. Man, you know, what an entertainer. But I think some of his favorite times were just hiding out in his room, listening to his records. And, you know, I still have just a whole box full of his 45s. That boy, you can hear the influence.

[C]

There was mournful blues pop, like Piano Red's Pay it no mind from 1956.

[B]

Pay it don't mind when your friends walks away and stops Give them a big smile hold your head way up Paying no mind they was no friends in the beginning. I give you my promise I'll be.

[C]

Yours till I die There was classic early rock and roll like Boney Maroney by Larry Williams, and jump blues like I Got Loaded by Peppermint Harris.

[B]

Party was getting underway and juice was really flying. And I got loaded I got loaded I got loaded who I should.

[C]

Pigpen, as many listeners may know, was far and away the least psychedelic member of the Grateful Dead. But being a member of the Grateful Dead, there are also those nearly inevitable times when Pigpen ended up on psychedelics.

[D]

When Ron was dosed on acid, I think there's some mention of. The only thing that calmed him down was he went home and, yeah, Lord Buckley in concert, I've got that album. It was likely the album he listened to in order to calm down. You know, when you're dosed on acid, man, I don't know about you, but, boy, there's. You're in a dark place if you're not doing well and get out of it. Sometimes it takes external forces. His Lord Buckley album, which I've got right here, it's definitely cerebral. Your Austin got the best of me and it took a slash and I got a crazy, revolutionary feeling in my body. That yellow whiskey went down my. Like honeydew vine walla Tasted mighty good. I felt a revolution going through my body like there was a great neon signs going up and saying, there's a great life coming. Hated talking to me and I took another slash and I got another Jordan. I took another slash and I started to sing. I started to sing in that big old yellow moon.

[C]

Richard Merle Buckley, known as Lord Buckley, was more than a standup comedian, a hip monologist, Jerry called him, quote, a verbal equivalent of Charlie Chaplin. Lord Buckley's routines were a fundamental part of the Grateful Dead's consciousness and internal language between bandmates. When Jerry Garcia was a teenager, he accidentally saw Lord Buckley perform in San Francisco's North Beach. Buckley was near the end of his life and Garcia had no idea who he was. As Garcia remembered it later to Oliver, the way he did his show was very dramatic. It would start off like a regular stand up routine, but he had lights in the whole deal. It was like sitting around a campfire with a guy telling a story. It really turned into a kind of primal experience. A very powerful style with a lot of magic. You can't act it. You have to think of yourself as Lord Buckley. That's one of the things that really made him special. This wasn't a guy just doing a shtick. He used language like a musician uses notes, that kind of riffing. You can read more of the interview with Garcia in Oliver Trager's book, Dig the Life and Art of Lord Buckley. Phil Lesh was also a huge Lord Buckley fan. And one of his own fondest memories of Pig Pen was Pig's ability to recite entire Buckley routines, including God's Own Drunk, which we just heard some of, and perhaps his most famous piece, the Naz, both featured on Lord Buckley in concert.

[D]

But I'm gonna put a cat on you was the coolest, gruest, sweetest way spin his cat that ever stomped on this jumping green spear and they call this your cat Denise.

[C]

Among the Pigpen collection are letters Pigpen wrote home from the Europe 72 tour. I'm no gambler, but it's probably a good bet that Pigpen was the only member of the Grateful Dead sending regular dispatches home to his parents. Sully has posted a letter written from Paris in May, where student agitators and local police were battling. Just got back from soundcheck rehearsal, it reads in part sold out both nights. However, there are inevitably people without tickets, sometimes hundreds outside, pig baiting and trying to get in. The cops love to bust skulls and a lot use their tear gas and carry machine guns. Imagine for a moment, though, in the spring of 1972, Pigpen in Paris. Paris sure is mellow in springtime. Sidewalk cafes, motorbikes on the sidewalks, parked groups just peacefully hanging out outside a bistro, just like in the movies. It's great. And we're only here for a few days. Oh, forgot the Famous French whores. They're here too. Here's a little bit of Pigpen recorded that night, May 3, 1972, at the Olympia Theater.

[B]

I won't take your life Won't even take a limb I just unload my shotgun Take a little skin Chooba chooba.

[D]

Chooba choo.

[B]

Looking high, looking high Looking low Looking low Wanna scare you up.

[D]

With.

[B]

Me so.

[C]

When the Vietnam War heated up and the draft came calling, Sully split town with his parents support. When he returned a few years later, he and Kevin promptly reconnected. Kevin had started to learn piano.

[D]

Kevin was. He was an interesting guy. You know, he. I'm smiling when I say that. He just had a. He was a different bird, that's for sure. He was such a talented guy. And Kevin and Ron's musical, they never really had a chance to do anything together, you know, right when Kevin was starting to develop Ron, he took his pass. That's one of life's very sad tragedies because who knows? Yeah, who knows?

[C]

Pigpen died in March 1973 at the age of 27. Though his drinking had exacerbated it, the cause of his death was likely undiagnosed Crohn's disease, the grateful that held awake at Bob Weir's house. Kevin and Sully mourn in Palo Alto.

[D]

When Ron passed, you know, we had to clean out a bunch of stuff from his apartment and, you know, their garage was just full of his belongings. You know, what do you do with all the guys furniture and shit?

[C]

One thing Kevin inherited was his older brother's truck.

[D]

He had that pumpkin orange Studebaker. I think it was a 49 truck, but it had a big old Corvette engine in it.

[C]

Not long after Pigpen died, Kevin formed his own band, Osiris.

[D]

Disco was all over the place and, you know, these guys had roots, you know, Palo Alto roots, and were very much more into a kind of a structured, really tight bar band format.

[C]

And when Osiris got going, they found themselves a perhaps unexpected supporter and some of the wall of sound.

[D]

Garcia really had a soft spot for Kevin. Thinking back, you know, way beyond any sort of standard person that's in the music industry. And so Kevin and I drove up to the. To the dead office because, you know, Kevin was putting together this band with his friends, you know, Scott and the other Kevin and Al and Sam Sheets and Keith Moore played with them too. And Kevin and I drove up and his brother, Studebaker, Kevin Ole Leadfoot, you know, we got up there and Garcia basically just Gave him whole truck bed full of, like, Mac amps. And those speakers, the hard trucker speakers that were part of the Euro72 tour and most likely were on the wall of sound at some place. And, you know, that's kind of half the battle is getting decent gear, you know. And they have that demo reel to reel, I think I sent you a picture of. And so they started playing gigs. Like they did free shows at Stanford, the Frost M Theater, but also up by the Tressiter. Un Boots and Saddle Lodge. We did quite a few games there. And in a roundabout way, I moved, you know, the equipment in and out. My friend Steve Hogel was their sound guy, very capable. He still does that today. But the Boots and saddle, I mean, it was the La Honda bar and very famous bar burned down. Now it's just a bunch of trees and grass. Like most of my memories now, but all gone. It was near Neil Young's place. You know, he lived down off Bear Gulch. And anyhow, you know, Osiris played, you know, for whatever an hour, you know, some couple people dancing and stuff. And we take a break to go out, you know, smoke a J or something. And I had to drive. So I was. Kept my input to a minimum because, you know, driving a windy country road with a truck full of equipment wasn't exactly something you want to be skewered doing. And during the break, somebody, you know, we're all sitting outside on the porch, you know, I mean, this is a real. I mean, Boots and Saddle was a real down home country bar. Somebody walked up on stage and started playing one of the guitars. You know, of course, the Osiris guys are, what the fuck, man? Hey. You know, and they sully go in there, you know, go in there and fucking get that asshole off the stage, okay? So I walk back in, the guy's got his back to me, and I go, hey, man, you know, that's not your shit, man. What are you doing? It turns around, it's fucking Neil, man. And I just kind of go, oh, hey. You know, I'm backing away slow. It's like, oh, hey, you just knock yourself out, man. You know, oh, thanks. Thanks, man. You know, I walk out and the guys, you know, they go, okay, why didn't you tell that guy, hey, what. You know, what are you doing back here? The guy's still in. I go, hey, you go in there. And, you know, they of course, backed out real quick. You know, five minutes later. Kind of one of those little never to happen again moments, you know, Imagine.

[C]

Neil Young walking into his neighborhood bar and encountering a back line of hard trucker amps that used to be part of the wall of sound. Osiris opened for Garcia and saunders On Halloween, 1974, a week and a half after the Dead began their live hiatus, and followed it up opening for Bob Weir and Kingfish on New Year's in Palo Alto, as well as playing other Dead affiliated shows. Here's what Osiris sounded like with Kevin McKernan on vocals, a little bit of the song hook line and sinker.

[B]

Joy stop playing.

[C]

I can hear the family resemblance, both Kevin's voice and the general vibe of the band. We've hosted a link to the full [e-mail] deadcast as well as a link to a slightly deeper history of Osiris from the Great Hooterolland blog. Thanks to Sulley for digitizing the band's demo reel. Unfortunately, Osiris didn't quite take flight.

[D]

Our whole orbit was one of self destruction. And, you know, the only reason I'm around is still talk about it is, you know, I got busted back in late 70 and that pretty much rerouted my whole path.

[C]

Sully and Kevin stay deeply connected, though on very separate paths, living in different places but intimately tied together through their shared roots in Palo Alto. Kevin died in 1993 at age 37, under similar circumstances to his older brother.

[D]

I helped Carol liquidate a lot of the family home stuff and, you know, she passed on a lot of, you know, Ron saying, she gave the pee to my son Dandy and, you know, really kind, you know, she knew that, you know, I do the right thing. And, I mean, she actually gave me some of the things that were just like, man, whoa. I ended up giving them back to her, you know, the vest that you can see Ron wearing on the first album and his briefcase on the Euro 72 Tour.

[C]

Among the Pigpen archive, of course, is a bunch of music different than the demo reels and solo recordings that have circulated through the years before you ask. Yes, it's being cared for, and someday Sully hopes everybody will get to hear it. The first keeper of the Pigpen vault was perhaps the most serious fan that Sully had ever met, Pigpen's dad, Phil McKernan.

[D]

Phil knew that, you know, this shit's gonna just disappear, you know, if he doesn't do something about it. So I actually have a whole binder full of his notations on what songs are on what cassette tape, you know, because Ron had a little home cassette tape player and that's what he recorded stuff on. Some of that stuff's gotten out, but none of the stuff I've got, as far as I know. So there's not a huge box, probably a 10 by 10 box with about 30 cassettes in it, along with a big box full of reel to reels of a lot of. It's Ron's home recordings. You know, I'm thinking he was going in the direction of doing his own thing before he passed. I've got a binder full of notations and, you know, he, you know, says what's on what? And, you know, whether he had a star. So if it sounds good, he would notate that. He definitely, you know, knew down the line that this stuff was. It's important, you know, for those that give a shit. I mean, I've also. I mean, Ron's songbook. I mean, he's got all his personal notes. I mean, that was the handheld of the day. You know, little. A little binder with papers in it. I do have in my possession Ron's songbook. And there's pages of songs that have never been published. Pages of them and whether he was writing them for his possible solo album. Again, I don't. I don't know, but there's some pretty good stuff. Whether it would have been as successful as, you know, as Operator, I don't. I don't know, but. But he was very capable. I mean, it was a very imaginative and heartfelt stuff. I mean, it wasn't just, you know, just blue stuff. It was some really optimistic life lessons, things, you know. The man was very introspective, I think.

[C]

In some of the videos from the Europe 72 tour and elsewhere, a spiral notebook is visible on Pigpen's organ. On one page of that notebook is a list of songs broken into two done and to work on. It lists 11 finished songs, including three he played with the Dead, Chinatown Shuffle, Empty Pages and the Stranger, sometimes later called Two Souls in Communion. Others include no Man's Land, Taken Leave, Change In Love, out of Time, Time to Go, Bakery Store lady and Lady Luck. Also on the done list is a song title that seems to read Don and Desta, credited in parentheses to Don Garrett. There was a folk singer, Don Garrett, who performed at the Matrix in San Francisco, but beyond that, I'm stumped. If anybody has any idea, send us a Smoke Signal. On the To Work on list are another half dozen titles. Glory Be, that's Bee, like the Insect Engineer Song, she Likes To Sleep With Windows Open, Whippoorwill Song, Drownin Man Song and Tulsa highway side Song.

[D]

As far as his songwriting and stuff like that, I think, oh, God, we, you know, just so much was lost when Ron passed.

[B]

My life needs some correction Alteration in direction Won't someone come with me for.

[C]

A while.

[B]

For while in this I fall.

[C]

That was the Stranger, sometimes known as Two Souls in Communion, or as Pigpen called it in his song Notebook, Stranger. Here, it was played frequently through the Dead's Europe 72 tour. That version was recorded April 26 in Frankfurt. Hope you've enjoyed this tour of the Pigpen archives, as it were. There are a lot of questions that we get into here on the good old Grateful Dead cast that deal with fairly obscure topics, tributaries of history, and little teeny, tiny things that happened a really long time ago to some very stoned people. With that in mind, we'll leave you with this one final bit of wisdom from the late Rock Scully, which might be applied to the entirety of our special area of historical inquiry. Rock was one of the Dead's oldest friends and managers. He was, as they say, a colorful character who was also close friends with Pigpen.

[D]

You know, one time when Kevin and I, it was New Year's Eve and the Dead were playing at, I think it was Winterland, Kevin and I were, you know, at the backstage door, and Kevin had called the office in San Rafael and said, hey, you know, give me a couple of passes. Sure, sure. Well, you get there, and of course there's no passes. And so we're kind of standing out there with our veritable pugs hanging out, and, you know, Bill Graham's, you fuckers. You know, he's a great guy, you know, I know I have no. I mean, what a thankless endeavor, you know. I mean, he did great, and he's a businessman and all that, but he had to be a tough guy, you know. That's just how that whole world kept moving around.

[C]

Kevin flagged down Rock Scully, ever helpful, started to walk the guys into the venue.

[D]

We start to walk in with Rock and, you know, Bill. Bill is still hanging around there for whatever reason. Bullshit. These fuckers aren't coming in. God damn. You know, he just like, you know, And Rock said, whoa, whoa, okay, just wait a minute here, you know, and says, you guys just go back out. You know, it's not gonna be seen here. So we walk back out and Rock, you know, disappears inside. We thought, ah, we're screwed. About five minutes later, Rock comes back out. He says, okay, come in.

[C]

Many years later, Sully and Rock reconnected and became pals.

[D]

I asked Rock about it. I go, rock, hey man, do you remember this? You know, what can happen, you know, in front of Winterland or whatever? And he's kind of sitting there and he goes, well, I don't remember that, but I. I do remember what happened after. And I'm sitting there thinking, oh shit, here comes a pearl, you know, here comes a pearl of wisdom. And. And I go, what happened after? He goes, 40 fucking years went by.

[C]

And by now it's been 50 fucking years. See you next time.

[B]

Don't know where she's going. Don't care where she's been Long as she been doing it, right.

[D]

That sounds like the arrangement. Oh yeah.

[A]

One of the first Grateful Dead albums I got my hands on as a teenager was the debut album. And being into the blues already, I was drawn to Pig singing Good Morning Little Schoolgirl right off the bat. When I started trading tapes of live shows, I was quickly exposed to other great performances of his. But one of my all time favorites is again from my favorite show, 8671 from the Hollywood Palladium in Los Angeles, and quite possibly the most smoking, hard to handle the boys ever fired off the jam in the middle is absolutely on fire. They come back in together perfectly dropping back into the groove and the group mind with the audience is evident as you can hear the crowd clapping along in time on the audience tape. This version was featured on the Fallout from the Phil Zone release. So let's hear a little bit of that last verse. And that, my friends, is how it's done. Thanks very much for tuning in. Visit us [e-mail] deadcast spread the love and share this podcast with a friend of yours today. See you next episode. Executive producers for the good old Grateful Dead cast Mark Pincus and Doran Tyson. Produced for Rhino Entertainment by Rich Mahan Productions and Jesse John. Special thanks to David Lemieux. All rights reserved.