GOOD OL' GRATEFUL DEADCAST

BONUS: The Nedcast

Date: December 5, 2020
Hosts: Rich Mahan & Jesse Jarnow
Main Guest: Ned Lagin

Overview

This special bonus episode, affectionately dubbed "The Nedcast," dives deep into the extraordinary career and contributions of Ned Lagin—a pioneering electronic musician, composer, and biologist who collaborated closely with the Grateful Dead in the early 1970s. Through candid conversation and audio excerpts, Lagin recounts his journey from MIT jazz student to avant-garde keyboardist, his innovations in electronic music, and his integral role in shaping the sound and creative ambition of the Grateful Dead, especially in the landmark Seastones project. The episode also muses on his later work and long-lasting friendships within the Dead's extended family.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ned Lagin’s Introduction to the Grateful Dead

• Ned was urged by friends in his MIT dorm to listen to the Grateful Dead, which led to him organizing their MIT show in 1970 ([11:19]).
  • Quote: “I was going to MIT. Friends...told me, as a jazz improviser, that I ought to listen in particular to the Grateful Dead.” – Ned Lagin ([11:19])
• Lagin writes to Jerry Garcia about their musical synergies and eventually meets the band at the MIT show.
  • Jerry’s reaction: “Phil! Phil! I found the guy! I found the guy.” ([11:19])

2. Immersion in the Dead’s Creative World

• Lagin becomes integrated into the Bay Area music community, collaborating with figures from Jefferson Airplane, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, and more at Wally Heider’s legendary studio ([18:59]).

  • Quote: “It was already the beginning of what I saw as this exposure to the community of musicians who were cross-pollinating and playing and sharing ideas…” – Ned ([18:59])

• His close musical bond with Garcia involves teaching and trading knowledge in jazz reharmonization, while Garcia introduces Ned to country piano legends like Floyd Cramer ([21:45]).

  • Quote: “Jerry in 1970 indicated to me that I should be really listening to Floyd Kramer… I learned a whole bunch through listening to things that Jerry suggested.” – Ned ([21:45])

3. Ned's Influence on and Experiences with the Dead on Stage

• Lagin sits in for around twenty performances (1970–1975), playing a range of keyboards—including organ, clavichord, synthesizers, and the Fender 88 ([08:46]).

  • Significant live moments: first performances of “Wharf Rat,” “Playing in the Band,” and “Greatest Story Ever Told” ([35:19]).
  • Quote: “Once again, now and then there was… the Greatest Story Ever Told. That’s what I was thinking of as the Pump Song…” – Ned ([35:48])

• Collaboration with Pigpen and Keith Godchaux, carefully navigating roles to not overshadow original band members ([40:22]).

  • Quote: “I vowed that I would be the sixth member of the mix, not the fifth or fourth. I wouldn’t displace Pigpen…” – Ned ([40:22])

4. Creation & Conceptualization of Seastones

• The “Seastones” project emerges from avant-garde and generative concepts, influenced by modern classical composers, jazz improvisation, and American literature (Vonnegut, Ives) ([22:58]).

  • Seastones was formed “as a convergence rather than a single evolutionary line” ([22:58]).
  • Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse-Five and the idea of “moment forms”—music existing as modular, shuffleable events ([22:58]).

• The feature of Seastones is its “musical identities intertwined” through live modulated signals, blending personalities sonically ([54:11]).

  • Quote: “You could extract signals from one musician … and then use them to modulate or affect other musicians' sound.” – Ned ([54:11])

• Technical legacy: Ned worked with early ARP 2600, Buchla, and EMU synths and built custom circuits for modulating and spatializing sound ([50:30]).

  • Quote: “All of those were used with Jerry.” – Ned ([50:30])

5. The Live Seastones Experience & the Wall of Sound

• Immense impact of performing through the Dead’s giant sound system:
  • Quote: “I could play at 120 decibels…if I played a huge subsonic chord, I could lift the entire stage.” ([61:36])
  • Audience feedback, both positive awe and negative confusion, shaped the experience ([66:19]).
    • Memorable moment: A fan, “in some place,” climbs on stage, interacts with Ned’s synth mid-performance ([66:50]).
      • “Some of it’s cool and some of it’s not cool. He said that one was really cool.” – Garcia to Ned ([67:25])

6. Psychedelics and Creativity in the Dead Scene

• Psychedelics central to the Dead’s ethos, not merely for recreation but for spiritual and creative expansion ([67:53]).
  • Quote: “LSD was not just a drug ... It was a spiritual investment.” – Ned ([70:00])
• Anecdotes about dosing, accidental and intentional, influencing live performances, even with unsuspecting law enforcement ([68:56]).

7. Transition from the Dead Scene to Tech, Science, and Photography

• After the Grateful Dead “retired,” Ned focused on technology, biotech, and photography—often at the intersection of art and science ([83:02]).

  • Quote: “I realized creativity, both in music and art, had to do with feeling the meaning...being involved creatively is feeling that interrelatedness…” – Ned ([83:07])

• Remained in touch with Dead associates, notably Bear Owsley Stanley, who attempted to coax him back into music and continued recording his work ([87:16]).

8. Later Musical Explorations and Reflections

• Return to music in the 2000s, recording anew and working with other musicians like Terry Haggerty and Barry Sless ([89:53]).
  • His philosophy of “non-narrative” music and compositions that unfold in non-linear ways, letting listeners chart their own paths ([91:09]).
    • Quote: “How about if you play a tune where you don't play the head... until the very end...” – Ned ([91:52])

9. Notable Jokes and Endearing Moments

• Concludes with a classic musician’s joke and a playful tale about drummer Mickey Hart's alter-ego “BD Shot” leaving a mark on Ned’s piano ([93:16]).
  • Quote: “Is a drummer a musician? Is a barnacle a ship? … the drummer had the last word on that, but it lingers on my piano like a barnacle.” – Ned ([93:16])
• Heartfelt gratitude extended to Grateful Dead members and community ([94:09]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• “Phil! Phil! I found the guy! I found the guy.” – Jerry Garcia (recounted by Ned, [11:19])
• “Once again now and then there was, ... ‘the Greatest Story Ever Told.’ That’s what I was thinking of as the Pump Song.” – Ned ([35:48])
• "Seastones was formed as a convergence rather than a single evolutionary line..." – Ned ([22:58])
• “I could play at 120 decibels, which is louder than being next to a jet airplane... the stage would go boom like we had an earthquake.” – Ned ([61:36])
• “LSD was not just a drug that you took to get high. It was a spiritual investment.” – Ned ([70:00])
• “How about if you play a tune where you don't play the head ... until the very end.” – Ned ([91:52])
• “Is a drummer a musician? Is a barnacle a ship? … The drummer had the last word on that, but it lingers on my piano like a barnacle.” – Ned ([93:16])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ned’s Intro to the Dead & MIT Show: [11:19] – [13:00]
• Early Collaborations and Community in San Francisco: [18:59] – [22:10]
• Influence of Jazz, Classical, and American Genres: [22:58] – [29:42]
• Live Collaborations with Pigpen, Keith, and the Band: [40:22] – [43:04]
• Creation, Philosophy, and Methods of Seastones: [22:58], [50:30], [54:11]
• The Wall of Sound and Experiments in Live Electronic Music: [61:31] – [66:19]
• Psychedelic Culture and the Dead: [67:53] – [73:46]
• Ned’s Departure from the Grateful Dead World: [77:57] – [83:02]
• Post-Dead Career and Return to Music: [83:02] – [91:09]
• The Drummer Joke & Final Reflections: [93:16] – [94:49]

Final Thoughts

"The Nedcast" is an essential listen for both committed Deadheads and the curious, offering a rare and detailed glimpse into the inner workings of the Grateful Dead during their most experimental phase. Ned Lagin's story is as much about musical boundary-pushing as it is about the intersection of art, science, and human connection. This episode stands as a testament to the spirit of collaboration, invention, and adventure that defined not only the Grateful Dead but an entire era of American music.

For more information, photos, and links to Ned Lagin’s catalog (including expanded Seastones and Cat Dreams):
Visit: dead.net/deadcast
Explore: nedbase.blogspot.com
Purchase music: spiritcats.com