Transcript

Rich Mahan (0:00)

Announcing Dogfish Head Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale Collaborating for over a decade now, Dogfish Head and Grateful Dead have crafted a light bodied pale ale brewed with sustainable kerns of grains, granola and heaps of good karma for a refreshing brew that's music to your taste buds. Check out dogfish.com for more details and to find some Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale in your neck of the woods. Dogfish Headcraft Brewery is located in Milton, Delaware. Please drink responsibly.

Peter Shapiro (0:30)

Foreign.

Rich Mahan (0:35)

The Good Old Grateful Dead Cast the Official Podcast of the Grateful Dead I'm Rich Mahan with Jesse Jarno exploring the music and legacy of the Grateful Dead for the committed and the curious. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow Deadheads, welcome to Season six of the Good Old Grateful Dead cast. I'm your co host Rich Mahan. As always, thank you for tuning in. This week, the Dead cast swaps feeds with the Comes A Time podcast hosted by Dead & Co. Bassist Ottilie Burbridge and comedian Mike Fenoya, featuring their interview with promoter Peter Shapiro, the impresario behind Fare Thee well and the Capitol Theater. The Dead cast will be back next week with our next episode from season six. Hey, bop on over to dead.netdeadcast and check out all of our past episodes, including the complete seasons one through five. And you can link from there to all your favorite podcasting platforms so you can listen where you like to listen. Don't forget to check out the transcripts we have for many episodes of seasons one through five. Head over to dead.netdeadcast index and click the transcript link on the episode you'd like to explore. Thanks to everyone who's contributed their stories@stories.dead.net a fair amount of you made it into the podcast, so thanks very much for your input. And were you at any of the Madison Square garden shows in 1981, 82 or 83? Well, if you were, we need your stories. Head over to stories.dead.net and record yours today. Speaking of Madison Square Garden, there's a great new Grateful Dead boxed set headed our way in and out of the garden. Madison Square Garden 818283 it boasts 17 CDs from six previously unreleased concerts recorded live in New York City at the famed Madison Square Garden between 1981 and 83. Also available as a breakout show. Madison Square Garden New York, NY 3981 A 3 CD set featuring a full show from the box. Both titles are available September 23rd and are available for pre order now at dead.net there's so much going on in the Dead world Right now. We have a new Grateful Dead server on Discord. So download the Discord app on your mobile device or computer and then search for the public Grateful Dead server and click the Join button. There's a Deadcast channel there you can chat with fellow heads about the latest episode you just checked out, and Jesse and I pop in just about every day to see what's going on. So we'll see you over there. All of you musicians out there are going to love this one. Announcing Playing in the Band an interactive web based mixing board that allows you to jam with the Grateful Dead. You can mute any channel of your choice and fill in for any member of the Dead or press the Solo button on any channel to listen and learn or duet. We have five songs from the 82772 Veneto, Oregon show ready for you to explore and jam along with@dead.net playingintheband even those of you that aren't musicians, I guarantee you're gonna find this fascinating to hear the individual parts soloed by themselves. Check it out. Dead.net Playing in the band well, today we have a very special episode for you. It's an early release interview from the Comes a Time podcast. It's an interview podcast hosted by bassist Ottilie Burbridge and comedian Mike Fenoya, and many of you know Ottilie as the bass player for Dead and Company, Formerly with the Allman Brothers Band, the Aquarium Rescue Unit with Colonel Bruce Hampton. Stellar player Mike is a touring comedian and producer of the acclaimed television show Impractical Jokers. The name of the podcast, of course, is an homage to the Grateful Dead, so song of the same title. The two have a wonderful dynamic as co hosts and dear friends, and their conversations are unique. You won't hear the same questions that interviewees have heard a thousand times, and things tend to veer in unexpected but welcome directions wherever it goes. They have a knack for cutting through the surface, connecting deeply with guests, and bringing light into all of our lives. In addition to the love of music, Ottil and Mike have interests in meditation, psychedelics, spirituality, and social justice. Today's guest on Comes a Time is the one and only music entrepreneur Peter Shapiro, a visionary of many talents. You may know him as the owner and operator of the Brooklyn bowl venues, the legendary Capitol Theater and the wetlands preserve in its Day. In 2015, he produced Fare Thee well, celebrating 50 years of the Grateful Dead at Levi's Stadium in California and Chicago's Soldier Field. Most recently, he's published a book examining his personal journey entitled the Music Never Stops. What putting on 10,000 shows has taught Me about Life, liberty, and the pursuit of magic. Peter's a Deadhead and music fan through and through, and we're so grateful for the work he's done honoring the legacy of the dead. You can find the Comes a Time podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts and also in video format on YouTube. On their feed, you can listen to past interviews with guests like Bob Weir, Paul Stamets, Bill Kreutzman, John Mayer, Mountain Girl, Billy Strings, Duncan Trussell, and some other guys you might have heard of. Me and Jesse and now Peter Shapiro.

Summary

GOOD OL' GRATEFUL DEADCAST

FEED SWAP: Comes A Time – Pete Shapiro

Release Date: September 1, 2022
Guests: Peter Shapiro with hosts Oteil Burbridge & Mike Finoia
Main theme: Music promoter Peter Shapiro discusses his journey from Deadhead to influential live music impresario, reflecting on the Grateful Dead's cultural impact, his book, and the alchemy of creating magical communal experiences.

Episode Overview

This episode features a feed swap between the Good Ol’ Grateful Deadcast and the Comes A Time podcast. The spotlight is on Peter Shapiro: visionary live music promoter and author of The Music Never Stops: What Putting on 10,000 Shows Taught Me About Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Magic. Shapiro, interviewer and storyteller, shares his journey from a transformative Grateful Dead show experience to producing epic concerts, revitalizing venues like Wetlands and the Capitol Theatre, and keeping the communal spirit of live music alive. The conversation is rich with insights into serendipity, the invisible art of venue magic, and the relentless pursuit of creating memorable moments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Magic of Live Music & Venue Experience

Attention to Detail Matters:
Shapiro stresses that every small element counts—from security at the door to Christmas lights behind the bar, to the staff’s vibe.

“Everything matters… your experience starts with getting to the venue, ticketing, security, the feel of the room. If any of those little things misses, it throws off the experience.” — Peter Shapiro [16:17]
Fan-First Mentality:
Shapiro keeps a fan’s sensibility in his work, striving to make venues feel like home and never letting the business aspects drain his passion.

“He walks into his own venue as a fan…he's maintained that, not letting the business side just suck his soul till it was dry.” — Oteil Burbridge [11:52]

2. Serendipity & Sliding Doors: How Life Changes on a Dime

Transformative Dead Show:
Shapiro recounts a mystical experience at a Grateful Dead show in 1993 that pushed him onto his current path.

“I went to a Dead show and my life changed.” — Peter Shapiro [18:51]
Decisions & Forks in the Road:
The discussion frequently returns to the notion of fate, sliding doors, and making choices that ripple through life’s trajectory.

“The sliding doors…you make the train or you don’t. And then there’s two different stories. That happens to each of us almost every day.” — Peter Shapiro [29:09]

3. Creating & Maintaining Magical Spaces

Balancing the Old & the New:
Shapiro speaks to the power of stepping into established venues and infusing them with new life, as well as creating brand new experiences from scratch (e.g., Brooklyn Bowl).
The Energy of a Room:
Venues become temples or churches; the accumulated magic in a space raises the potential for transcendence.

“The air is different in a room that’s done 10,000 shows. It makes it easier to get to magic if magic’s been in the room before.” — Peter Shapiro [52:10]

4. Mentorship, Legacy, and Passing the Baton

Encouraging Young Promoters & Creatives:
Shapiro shares practical advice: start small, pay attention to details, and don’t be afraid to learn by doing (even if at first it’s for a small audience).

“What it takes to do Fare Thee Well is also true at a show with 100 people… the way to really learn how to do it is by doing it.” — Peter Shapiro [37:47]
Living Like Jazz:
The ethos of improvisation, embracing uncertainty, and keeping intentions clear threads throughout the discussion.

“Everyone’s life has a bit of that jam…you can live your life that way. I do see myself maneuvering through different types of songs and moments” — Peter Shapiro [68:28]

5. Intention, Imperfection, and Magic

Intentionality Above Perfection:
Despite inevitable mistakes or imperfections, what shines through and becomes contagious is the purity of intent behind each show and experience.

“Your intention is for it to be perfect—people can feel that…Let me just have my intention be full.” — Oteil Burbridge [56:09]
No Mistaking Magic:
The “pursuit of magic” isn’t about control; it’s about arranging as many elements as possible to let serendipity bloom.

“You have to set it up right for magic—try to do as much as you can to increase the chances, but you can’t control it.” — Peter Shapiro [62:30]

6. Legacy, Memory, and the Power of a Single Night

One Shot to Create History:
Reflecting on events like Dead 50 and big festivals, Shapiro notes the significance of getting it right because those memories, good or ill, endure.

“You only get one shot…you can’t go back and fix it. People will always remember that night.” — Peter Shapiro [58:55]
Recharging Through Community:
Live music offers a spiritual recharge akin to church, one that both artists and audiences crave and need regularly. The absence of this communal ritual during COVID made its centrality clearer than ever.

7. Personal Legacies and Gratitude

Paying It Forward:
Shapiro credits earlier mentors and emphasizes the importance of making the most of each sliding-door moment—leaning in when opportunity arises and passing the baton when possible.
A Living Bill Graham:
Oteil expresses gratitude for Shapiro’s work, likening his influence to that of iconic promoter Bill Graham for a new generation.

“You’re my Bill Graham…Bill Graham is Bill and Bobby’s Bill Graham…you’re the world’s Peter Shapiro.” — Oteil Burbridge [69:20]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Passing the Torch:

“Sometimes you do the Oteil baton, your own…Right, there's great feeling to lifting or being part of the baton and keeping that going. And then there's a great other feeling creating new music. Life is a little bit of that balance.”
— Peter Shapiro [33:24]
On the Contagious Energy in Venues:

“The contagious energy that flows through the venues—the staff is happy. It translates.”
— Mike Finoia [10:18]
On Learning Through Doing:

“The way to really learn to be a great musician is by playing.”
— Peter Shapiro [38:16]
On Intention & Audience Connection:

“There's no difference between Trey and Professor Dumbledore in Harry Potter…I reached out to our audience, I opened my eyes and I went, it's them.”
— Oteil Burbridge [47:34]
On Community as Church:

“Certain venues are temples, churches…you can see them just seeking the same divine magic feeling from their religion.”
— Peter Shapiro [52:10, 54:01]

Highlighted Topics with Timestamps

Introduction to Peter Shapiro’s Book [09:24]
Importance of Venue Vibe & Staff [10:16-12:01]
The Fan Experience (Details Matter) [16:01-18:25]
Shapiro’s Mystical Dead Show & Career Change [18:51-24:06]
Sliding Doors, Serendipity, and Pathways [28:32-29:09]
Passing The Baton & Mentorship [32:16-38:16]
The Power of Intention in Performance [56:09-57:14]
Creating Iconic Moments (Dead 50, Clifford Ball) [58:55-62:30]
Venues as Church and Communal Space [52:08-54:30]
Legacy & Bill Graham Comparison [69:20]

Final Thoughts

The episode is a heartfelt, nuanced conversation about the invisible labor and visible magic of live music promotion. Peter Shapiro’s story intertwines practical wisdom, mystical accidents, creative intention, and gratitude—offering inspiration for anyone seeking meaning in their work or looking to bring people together. For Deadheads and the uninitiated alike, this is as much about the mystery of “catching the train” as it is about sound-and-light logistics. With an undercurrent of humility and love, it’s a masterclass in how to chase and sustain magic—one night, one decision, one glowing venue at a time.

For more Comes A Time episodes & Peter Shapiro’s story:

The Music Never Stops: What Putting on 10,000 Shows Taught Me About Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Magic (book by Peter Shapiro)
Comes A Time Podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube

“Try to be a good person and just do the right thing and hold and eventually, hopefully, if you pay it forward enough, you know, you might get a shot at dead.” — Peter Shapiro [58:00]

wavePod

FEED SWAP: Comes A Time: Pete Shapiro