GOOD OL' GRATEFUL DEADCAST – "Playing Dead, Part 2" (July 22, 2021)

Official Grateful Dead Podcast

Hosts: Rich Mahan and Jesse Jarnow

Overview

Theme & Purpose:
This epic episode (the second part of a two-part series) dives into how Grateful Dead music has spread, mutated, and flourished far beyond the original band—from Dead cover bands and jazz interpretations, to worldwide scenes and contemporary indie collaborations. "Playing Dead, Part 2" highlights the remarkable variety of Dead covers, the culture of musical reinterpretation, and spotlights the communities and musicians—old and new, domestic and global—keeping Dead songs alive and evolving.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Grateful Dead’s Songbook: Freedom, Improvisation, and Legacy

• Jerry Garcia on Improvisation & Anti-Authoritarianism
  Garcia emphasized that improvisation was integral:

  "I could never bring myself to actually learn something note for note and play it that way more than once. ... I don't know what it is, but it's something in my personality just won't allow me to do it." (04:15)
  The Dead, according to Garcia, mandated “constant reinvention” even regarding their own material.

• Community as Sustaining Force
  The band's audience was as much a driver of the music's endurance as the music itself. Shows were never repeats—fans kept coming back for each night’s uniqueness (10:45).

The Wetlands Phenomenon & the Rise of the Jam Scene

• Role of Wetlands Preserve (NYC) (late 1980s-2001):
  Described by both Jeff Mattson and Peter Shapiro as a community hub and laboratory for Dead-inspired bands, Wetlands cultivated both musical and social activism:

  "That place was great…in a way that I don't think ever was before or after, a center for Deadheads to come in New York City." —Jeff Mattson (09:58) "It was one church or congregation...people, four different groups—ska, hardcore, Deadheads, hip-hop—seeking the same thing." —Peter Shapiro (16:27)

• The Next Wave Post-Garcia:
  After Garcia’s death, Shapiro predicted—correctly—that the next generation would carry forward the Dead spirit, further diversifying through offshoot genres (15:17).

Dead Music Invades (and Mutates) Other Musical Worlds

• Jazz Cross Currents

  • Knitting Factory (NYC) and Wetlands were pivotal in blurring the lines between Dead/jam and jazz scenes.

  "I gravitated more avidly toward the Knitting Factory..." —Gary Lambert (21:32)

  • Musicians like Medeski, Martin & Wood helped fuse jazz sophistication with Dead-style improv (23:30, 23:50).

• Steven Bernstein’s Perspective:
  He describes discovering the Dead as fundamentally different and difficult for jazz musicians to parse, but ultimately deeply instructive:

  "...If your language is the language of African American blues and rhythm, the Dead just sounds like wrong notes. ...But...you realize, no, that’s exactly what this is supposed to sound like." (31:09-32:51)

• International Transmission

  • Japan’s Warlocks of Tokyo and Yukotopia club:

    "...playing their music I can understand their sound clearly. Their music is very freely, kind of freedom. They can go wherever she want to go..." —Shuhei Iwasa (50:50-52:11)

  • Oshino Dead Festival at Mt. Fuji: 1,000 – 2,000 attendees, local Dead culture thriving (100:19).

  • Global Spread:
    Even scenes in places like Israel are growing, and the Dead’s complex songbook serves as a “musical code” transcending language (53:32).

The Many Faces of Covering Dead Music

• Dead Covers: Tribute, Recreation, and Radical Reinvention

  • Dedicated (1991): The first mainstream Dead tribute album, elevated their songbook’s status in popular music (07:14).
  • Dark Star Orchestra: Strives for show-by-show historical recreations—but always with the spirit of invention.

    "You were always walking this fine line, ...of being imitative but also expressing yourself musically." —Jeff Mattson (55:17)

  • Joe Russo's Almost Dead (JRAD): High-energy, post-punk, and dynamic, focusing on pushing boundaries far beyond reverent reproduction, attracting younger audiences (68:15, 69:05).
  • Holly Bowling: Solo piano transcriptions, re-arranging jams for the instrument and sharing her deep arrangement process (81:35).

• Personal Interpretive Approaches:

  • Some musicians prefer to make Dead songs utterly their own, e.g., David Gans performing "Warfrat" in a new key (63:27).
  • For others, like Holly Bowling, accuracy gives way to capturing the feel and emotion of the original jams (83:07).

• The Community Around Cover Bands

  • Sociologist Rebecca Adams discovered distinct subcultures around Dead cover bands—entirely new zones of community, ritual, and meaning (59:22-61:50).

Song Structure, Musical Logic, and New Standards

• Songwriting and Improvisation:

  • Oteil Burbridge discusses the Dead’s music as uniquely American — a tapestry woven from every genre (20:56).
  • Both he and Bernstein dissect the Dead’s musical logic, especially their odd structural turns, e.g., in "Ship of Fools" or "Black Peter" (46:39).

• Instrumental Challenges and Permission to Be Yourself:

  • Both Oteil and Joe Russo recount being told by senior Dead members to simply “be yourself”—the ethos is to “do you” (91:18).

• Playable Standards:

  • The vast, improvisational Dead catalog is described as “the new standards”—a folk-like repertoire meant to be interpreted, mutated, and personalized by each generation (79:50).

Indie/Alternative Embrace & The Day of the Dead

• Influence on Indie Artists:

  • The Dead’s appeal has won over unexpected audiences and artists (The National, Stephen Malkmus, Yola Tengo, etc.), permeating indie/alternative scenes (102:14).
  • Malkmus describes initially resisting, then eventually cherishing, the Dead’s music and influence (105:34).

• Day of the Dead (2016):
  A massive, 59-track tribute compilation featuring indie luminaries, exploring the Dead songbook in unpredictable ways (103:10).

The Grateful Dead as Musical "Religion"

• Venues as Churches, Songbook as Scripture:
  Multiple speakers evoke the metaphor of the Dead as a religion—with venues as churches and the vast songbook as the liturgy, capable of endless interpretation and community (16:27, 79:50, 95:12).

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Jerry Garcia on Impermanence in Performance:

  "What we're doing here is we're inventing this as we go along, and you are involved in this experience, and it's never going to be this way again. This is it for this particular version of it... There's value to that..." (10:45)

• On Dead Community Diversity (Peter Shapiro):

  "...You would see these four different groups—the ska kids, the hardcore kids, the Deadheads on Saturday, and then the hip hop kids and the Hipsters for the Roots—all seeking the same thing. ...The pastor was a little different. ...But the church, the venue, that's what was cool about Wetlands." (16:27)

• On Permission in Music (Oteil Burbridge):

  "I cannot play like Phil. It’s just too elusive. He [Bob Weir] said, just play it black. Just do be what you are. ...It just freed me. So I think all the ways that’s what this music is supposed to be like." (91:18)

• On the Ongoing Relevance of Dead Songs:

  "It's just amazing to me that...there's so many, I guess versions, that each version is a little bit different ... leads itself to reinterpretation ... They're the new standards, right? ... standards that's open to interpretation and improvisation." —Peter Shapiro (79:50)

• International Deadhead Experience (Joe Russo):

  "I was outside of Tokyo...these amazing people...so in love with this Grateful Dead culture… this band...singing these songs, like, they were doing Japanese versions...the whole thing was so far out and amazing..." (95:28)

• On Dead Covers as Community and Legacy (David Lemieux):

  "It's nothing like the Grateful Dead playing it. But it is clearly this is a Grateful Dead record. It's just played by different guy. The music is unmistakably...timeless..." (117:04)

Major Segments & Key Timestamps

• Introduction & Jerry Garcia on Remixing the Dead Songbook (00:00 - 04:54)
• Wetlands, Dead Cover Bands, and Deadhead Community Building (08:03 - 17:59)
• The Dead and the Jazz Scene (21:11 - 27:56)
• Dead Music as Folk Tradition; International Spread (Japan) (49:11 - 53:32)
• Dark Star Orchestra and the Cover Band Phenomenon (55:17 - 63:13)
• Personal Reinterpretations and Approaches (David Ganz, Holly Bowling) (63:13 - 88:16)
• Advice from Bob Weir & Oteil Burbridge on Musical Freedom (89:49 - 93:14)
• Day of the Dead and Indie Scene Embrace (103:10 - 110:55)
• Modern Day Dead Covers—Everywhere! (114:29 - End)

Closing Reflections

The episode reveals Dead culture as a living, breathing ecosystem—songs as shared "standards" and portals to self-expression, not relics. The Dead's core ethos—musical freedom, collective reinvention—permeates jazz, indie, folk, bluegrass, clubs in Tokyo, mountain festivals in Japan, and living rooms worldwide. Whether it’s an indie artist’s fuzzed-out improv, a Japanese Deadhead in a tie-dye, or a sixteen-year-old picking out "Bertha" on guitar, the "songbook" is alive and multiplying.

"Grateful Dead songs filtered through another musician's perspective might just offer a little insight in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." (119:15)

For more: Visit dead.net/deadcast for episode extras, links to music, and further exploration.