Wake Of The Flood 50: Row Jimmy

Summary

GOOD OL' GRATEFUL DEADCAST

Wake Of The Flood 50: Row Jimmy

Date: September 21, 2023
Hosts: Rich Mahan & Jesse Jarnow
Guests: Robert Hunter (archival), David Lemieux, Donna Jean Godchaux-McKay, Brian Kehew, Sean O’Donnell, Scott Metzger, David Gans (archival interviews)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into “Row Jimmy,” a staple from the Grateful Dead’s seminal 1973 album Wake of the Flood. Commemorating its 50th anniversary, hosts Rich Mahan and Jesse Jarnow explore the song’s musical evolution, lyrical ambiguity, mythic origins, and enduring live legacy. They unravel its rhythmic quirks, connection (or not) to reggae, and dissect Robert Hunter’s dreamlike lyrics, drawing on Hunter’s own words. The episode features first-hand band accounts, archival interviews with Hunter, insights from Dead scholars, and discussions of the song’s evolution onstage and in the studio.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Song Overview

• “Row Jimmy” Legacy
  • Played 273 times by the Dead from its 1973 debut ([03:55]).
  • Often beloved for Jerry Garcia’s rare slide guitar and Robert Hunter’s evocative lyrics.
  • Song’s elusive meaning and groove, even for longtime fans.
  • Garcia once remarked: “I really loved Ro Jimmy Row. That was one of my favorite songs... Nobody else really liked it very much… It’s like the musical version of one of those magic eye optical illusions.” ([06:47])

2. Song Origins: Writing & Early Demos

• Composed During a Garcia “Spasm”
  • Garcia wrote multiple songs in a burst, describing it as a “spasm” to Cameron Crowe ([08:24]).
  • The home demo reel (found by Mountain Girl in 2016) captured Garcia playing nearly all parts ([09:39]).
  • Early lyrics included “glass shack” instead of “grass shack,” as noted in ICE9 archives ([13:23]).
  • The demo and early live takes were notably faster than later versions ([15:14]).

3. Reggae Influence – Or Not?

• Reggae Association and Grooves
  • Scott Metzger: “To me, Row Jimmy is like a reggae feel… but nobody is back there doing the upbeat chicka chickas…” ([11:40]).
  • The link to reggae star Jimmy Cliff is speculated but unconfirmed.
  • Jesse Jarnow suggests that reggae sensibility came after the song was written; early live versions were more a unique Grateful Dead groove, not reggae ([13:06], [15:43]).
  • Drummer Bill Kreutzmann (via memoir) describes the song’s rhythmic challenge: “You have to play the song in half time with the double time bounce on top. It’s trickier than it sounds.” ([15:43])
  • Musicologist Sean O’Donnell: “It seems to be moving in multiple temporal realms… it’s moving in slow motion, but also has a quicker lilt…” ([18:32])

4. Musical Construction & Rhythmic Oddities

• Form and Complexity
  • Solo form: mixture of bars in 2s, 3s, and 4s; “very crooked” timing ([20:11]).
  • By spring ’73, versions slowed down, and reggae feel grew subtly ([21:55]).
  • “It’s them hitting their stride as a chamber music group… it's the composite that really holds it together.” (O’Donnell, [47:51])

5. Lyrical Analysis & Robert Hunter’s Perspective

• Hunter’s Stories and Shifting Meanings
  • Interviewed by David Gans in 1977, Hunter links “Row Jimmy” to a personal cross-country journey after leaving New Mexico in 1967 ([26:08]).
  • The narrative twists: Hunter realizes mid-explanation he was mixing up stories between “Row Jimmy” and “Mississippi Half-Step,” both written at the same time ([32:21]).
  • Hunter admits much of his lyricism is about evoca­tion, not literal translation: “If there were a more definite way to say things than with the symbols, then you’d say it that way.” ([72:20])

Memorable Quotes — Lyrical Section

• Robert Hunter:
  “Some of them are trying to make sense and others of them are just dreams, you know…” ([25:30])
• Robert Hunter:
  “I had 20 bucks, a copy of Don Quixote and my black Stewart scarf… Walked the wrong way all day…” ([27:29])
• Robert Hunter:
  “Row Jimmy, row | Gonna get there, I don’t know” ([34:04])
• Hunter on imagery:
  “Here’s Julie doing this. Can you double twist when you hit the air? … What do you do when you face the void?” ([36:56])

6. Recording Wake of the Flood’s Studio Version

• Studio Work & Instrumentation
  • Tracked August 10, 1973; Garcia stopped the first take for no obvious reason ([41:55]).
  • Keith Godchaux played a combination of Farfisa and Clavinet on the studio cut ([43:12]).
  • Brian Kehew discusses the challenge of playing organ as a pianist: “For [Keith], it must have been weird to have a synthesizer show up… it does add a new color…” ([44:54])
  • Take three became the album version ([46:36]).

7. Vocals & Group Harmonies

• Working Out Ensemble Vocals
  • Donna Jean Godchaux McKay: “So much of the vocals… it’s not background vocals, it’s ensemble singing… We would have to work on the harmonies... taking it into a group format and knowing where the tone of your voice is going to fit... That’s fun. Figuring that stuff out.” ([50:29], [52:15])
  • Describes the joy and laughter, especially with Jerry and Bobby around the studio mic.

8. Live Evolution and Legacy

• Changing Grooves, Expanding Instrumentation

  • The arrangement continued to change over the Dead’s career: Jerry’s slide guitar in 1973–74; Brent Mydland and later Bruce Hornsby adding their textures in the ‘80s/’90s ([54:49], [57:23], [60:21]).
  • David Lemieux: “Brent did some beautiful things on it… there was a lot of space in that song… When it was Brent’s turn to fill some of those spaces, I loved it.” ([57:23])
  • Weir’s unique rhythm guitar: “He’d hold his guitar like he was rowing during the quiet part at the end…” ([58:20])

• Signature Versions

  • A supercut features snippets from demo to late-era Dead versions; tracklist with years and venues at dead.net ([69:11]).
  • After the Dead, the song remained notable—covered by reggae artist Judy Mowatt in 1996, Trey Anastasio, and the Decemberists ([70:54], [71:16]).

9. Closing Reflections

• On Meaning and Ambiguity
  • Hunter’s legacy is to keep the song’s symbolism open: “You know, I really would prefer not to get into tearing apart the symbology of my own songs... If there were a more definite way to say things than with the symbols, then you'd say it that way.” ([72:20])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Lemieux on experiencing the song live:
  “That was the moment… I just was so enveloped by the sound and being in there with 15,000 people at the Hartford Civic Center that it made sense to me.” ([05:23])

• Scott Metzger on Ro Jimmy’s “reggae” feel:
  “It’s like a reggae feel to it, but it’s not like anybody is back there doing the upbeat chicka chickas on the guitar… to make it overly reggae.” ([11:40])

• Robert Hunter on imaginative interpretation:
  “I can even interpret Robert Hunter lyrics. Throw me another.” ([33:32])

• Donna Jean Godchaux-McKay, on session joy:
  “Every time we encircled that microphone, it dissolved into a comedy routine… we had the best time around the microphones in the studio.” ([52:15])

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Timestamps to Key Segments

• 04:33 — David Lemieux on Row Jimmy as a first-set highlight.
• 06:47 — Garcia’s “magic eye optical illusion” quote about Row Jimmy.
• 08:24 — The song’s writing “spasm” and Garcia’s home studio.
• 13:06 — Jesse Jarnow interrogates the reggae connection.
• 15:43 — Bill Kreutzmann on the song’s rhythmic trickiness.
• 18:32 — Sean O’Donnell elaborates on the tune’s “multiple temporal realms.”
• 25:30 — Robert Hunter on songwriting and dreamlike lyrics.
• 26:08–32:41 — Hunter recounts his 1967 journey; revelation about “Mississippi Half-Step.”
• 34:04 — Early version of the “Row Jimmy” chorus from alternate lyrics.
• 43:12 — Studio keyboard choices and their effect on the vibe.
• 50:29 — Donna Jean Godchaux-McKay on creating vocal harmonies with the Dead.
• 54:49 — Garcia describes his rarely-used slide guitar, especially on Row Jimmy.
• 57:23 — David Lemieux talks about Brent Mydland’s contributions.
• 60:56–69:11 — “Supercut” montage of Row Jimmy over the decades.
• 70:54 — Post-Dead covers and adaptations.
• 72:20 — Final Robert Hunter quote on the evocative power of symbols over direct meanings.

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Conclusion

This episode of the Good Ol’ Grateful Deadcast encapsulates why “Row Jimmy” persists in the Dead’s canon: it’s at once slippery, dreamy, un-pin-downable, and yet deeply evocative. The gentle rhythmic complexity, impressionist lyrics, and singular atmosphere become a symbol for the Dead’s own evolution. Through deep dives—musical, historical, and personal—the episode celebrates “Row Jimmy” as a unique portal into the Grateful Dead’s ongoing creative journey.

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For full audio and further links, visit dead.net/deadcast.

Transcript

[Rich Mahan]

Announcing Dogfish Head Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale Collaborating for over a decade now, Dogfish Head and Grateful Dead have crafted a light bodied pale ale brewed with sustainable kerns of grains, granola and heaps of good karma for a refreshing brew that's music to your taste buds. Check out dogfish.com for more details and to find some Grateful Dead Juicy Pale Ale in your neck of the woods. Dogfish Headcraft Brewery is located in Milton, Delaware. Please drink responsibly the Good Old Grateful Dead Cast the Official Podcast of the Grateful Dead I'm Rich Mahan with Jesse Jarno exploring the music and legacy of the Grateful Dead for the committed and the curious. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow Deadheads, welcome to Season eight of the Good Old Grateful Dead Cast. I'm your co host Rich Mahan. Thank you very much for tuning in. In this episode of the Good Old Grateful Dead Cast, we continue our exploration into the Grateful Dead's 1973 studio album Wake of the Flood. We're well into side one at this point as we dive into a staple of the Grateful Dead's catalog road Jimmy it's the 50th anniversary of the Grateful Dead's wake of the Flood and to celebrate, this rhino has a grand 50th anniversary release which includes the original album remastered, some really cool early demos of songs from the album, and six songs from a live show at Magaw Memorial hall at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois from November 1, 1973. There will be special vinyl as well as standard black vinyl CDs and digital versions available. More info and pre orders are happening right now [e-mail] head on over to dead.net deadcast and check out all of our past episodes including the complete seasons 1 through 7. You can link from there to your favorite podcasting platform platform so you can listen how you like to listen. Please help this podcast by subscribing hitting that like button sharing an episode on your social media and if the spirit moves you, leave us a review. Thank you very much. We have transcripts for many of your favorite Deadcast episodes available for your reading pleasure. We recently uploaded season one so head on over to dead.netdeadcast index and check them out. Thanks to everyone who has left their [e-mail] do you have any stories about Wake of the Flood or any of the songs on it? We're looking for them now. Got a tale about the first time you heard Eyes of the World? Or a wild tour yarn about that version of Let It Grow that flipped your wig no story too big or too small. Record them [e-mail] and you may just hear yourself on the Dead cast. There's an option to write your story there, but if possible, please record yourself telling the story. It's much more compelling and we can actually use the audio in the Dead cast. If you need longer than the time allotted, leave a second one or a third recording. Thank you very much. Ro Jimmy is one of the songs from Wake of the Flood that became a Grateful Dead staple, with the band playing the song 273 times throughout their career since its debut in February of 1973. Featuring some of Robert Hunter's best lyrical work, Ro Jimmy has plenty of double twists in the music as well. We'll dive into both the lyrics and the trickier than it sounds music. In this episode, Jesse Jarno has his decoder ring and it's set to stun.

[Robert Hunter]

I don't know. Seems a promo way to go. Get out. Ro. Ro. Ro.

[Jesse Jarno]

There's no question that Ro Jimmy is a classic Rachel Bed song, beloved by many Deadheads, played often by the band and the offshoots that have followed. Grateful Dead archivist and legacy manager David Lemieux.

[David Lemieux]

When it was perfect and all the pieces fell into place, nothing in a first set was better, really up there with Birdsong. For me, I love that I got to hear Jerry play slide guitar on it. You know, Jerry didn't play slide guitar very much at all. So to get to hear Jerry play some slide usually was really great.

[Jesse Jarno]

That was a bit of the Winterland 6-8-77 version, probably familiar to many now on the Winterland 1977 box. And as much as Ro Jimmy is a classic Grateful Dead song, it can also be a confusing song.

[David Lemieux]

My first show, it was in your face, Hartford 1987, and it opened with Midnight Hour into a massive cold, rain and snow, CC Rider, and even when push comes to shove, Brother Isaac. But there was a Road Jimmy in there, and that was the moment. That was an 87. I'd always liked the song, but didn't quite. I won't even say. I'm not gonna say understand it. I understand, but I didn't know what to make of it, dude. Like, what is this? And it was at that show where I just was so enveloped by the sound and being in there with 15,000 people at the Hartford Civic center that it made sense to me. And I said, okay, this song. And then I started really seeking it out in a first set.

[Jesse Jarno]

That show is Now Dave's picks 36. It's an excellent version, and I can see how it unlocked the song for young Dave Lemieux. I certainly didn't get Road Jimmy at first, and I know it's not an uncommon experience, but it seems like not even the Dead themselves totally got it at first. During the band's 1976 touring hiatus, Jerry Garcia told the journalist, I really loved Ro Jimmy Row. That was one of my favorite songs of ones that I've written. I loved it. Nobody else really liked it very much. We always did it, but nobody liked it very much, at least in the same way I did. There's something about it that's like the musical version of one of those magic eye optical illusions. Today we're going to exercise our third ear and focus in on Row Jimmy. A classic Grateful Dead song, sure, but what kind of classic Grateful Dead song?

[Robert Hunter]

That's the way it's been in town ever since they tore the jukebox down. 2B stone by no More not so.

[Jesse Jarno]

Much as yet done in January 1973, Jerry Garcia did something he never did again. He wrote more than a half dozen new songs at once. A few months later, around the time the band was recording Wake of the Flood, he described the experience to Cameron Crowe as a spasm. He added, sometimes I can just crank him out and other times nothing. Like I could have a spurt in which I'd write four new songs in a week and in the next six months I wouldn't be able to put two words together. It's that kind of thing. Something had changed since the last time Garcia had cranked out batches of songs. In early and late 1971, he had a home studio installed.

[Robert Hunter]

1, 2, 3, 4 should I catch a rabbit by his hair Come back stepping like a fork on it.

[Jesse Jarno]

That's from an incredible unlabeled tape reel that Mountain girl found in 2016 and sent to our friend David Ganz for digitization, who discovered a complete demo session for nearly all the songs that Jerry Garcia brought to the Grateful dead in early 1973, featuring Jerry not only singing and playing his parts, but often including bass lines, keyboards, second guitar and drum machine, apparently recorded in a home studio in a rear building behind the house that he, Mountain Girl and their family moved into in stinson beach in 1971. There are no signs of other home demos from this period just yet, but I want to believe.

[Robert Hunter]

Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world. The heart has its beaches, its home and thoughts of its own.

[Jesse Jarno]

We're recording close to two albums worth of material. Garcia told Cameron Crowe with a plan to distill it into one record, leaving the rest in the can. The tape contains early versions of China Doll. They love each other, Wave that flag, also known as US Blues Eyes of the World, Here comes Sunshine, an unfinished bluesy instrumental, and Road Jimmy.

[Robert Hunter]

Come on home where you belong and don't you.

[Jesse Jarno]

Run off no more Ro Jimmy has confounded and delighted generations of Deadheads listening to classic versions of the song. There's an influence that's seemingly quite obvious, though it might not be exactly what it seems, and in turn might provide a key to understanding why Ro Jimmy is such a slippery song. Please welcome back Scott Metzger of Joe Russo's Almost Dead.

[Sean O'Donnell]

To Me, Ro Jimmy is like a reggae feel to it, but it's not like anybody is back there doing the upbeat chicka chickas on the guitar or anything to make it overly reggae.

[Robert Hunter]

Don't hang your head.

[Jesse Jarno]

In some ways, it seems simple that Ro Jimmy was Jerry Garcia's attempt to channel reggae, which he'd soon be singing in his side band with Merle Saunders. There are those that have wondered if the title Road Jimmy is a nod to Jimmy Cliff, singer and star of Harder They Come.

[Sean O'Donnell]

I've always thought, man, that Road Jimmy would have fit perfectly on the Harder They Come soundtrack. I would love to hear Jimmy Cliff sing that song. Like I could just totally. I could see it so easily.

[Robert Hunter]

Oh yeah, will they tell me you're poppy up in the sky waiting for me when I die but between the day you're born and when you die they never seem to hear even your cry.

[Jesse Jarno]

But here's the thing. I'm not totally sure Jerry Garcia had heard reggae yet when he wrote Ro Jimmy. Certainly it had been popular in Jamaica for a few years, and there's a chance it made it to the dead's ears in that window. It was in 1973 that reggae made it to American shores for real.

[David Ganz]

Jamaica's first feature is America's number one cult movie, Jimmy Cliff, an existential hero.

[Jesse Jarno]

As good as anything James Dean or Brando portrayed in the 50s crawdaddy. The harder they come open in the UK in 1972 but didn't make it to the United States until it opened in New York, coincidentally the same weekend in early 1973. That road Jimmy debuted in California. It would become an underground hit in 1974, thanks in part to Deadcast's buddy Alan Arkesh, who, as it turns out, edited the trailer we just heard the soundtrack had been out in the UK starting in the summer of 72, so it's possible an imported copy made it over. Or maybe the idea of reggae was just generally wafting its way to Stinson Beach. But to my ears, it's also possible that Ro Jimmy only took on a reggae influence after it was written. For some contrast, here's how it sounded on Garcia's solo demo recorded in January 1973. One Tiny Thing to note here is one of the song's only lyric changes from its earliest versions on an early Draft in the ICE9 files, as well as this demo and the first performance. It's a glass shack not a grass shack.

[Robert Hunter]

Ask the time baby I don't know come back I play let it show I say ro.

[Jesse Jarno]

Ch and here's how the groove felt on February 9th when they debuted the song on stage at Maples Pavilion at Stanford.

[Robert Hunter]

Don't have your head and let the true time roll Glass shack nailed to a pine wood floor Ask the time baby I don't know come back later on.

[Jesse Jarno]

It slowed down a tiny bit between the demo and the Dead debut, but both have much faster feels than later versions. A superb explanation of Ro Jimmy's groove and what's so odd about it can be found in drummer Bill Kreutzman's memoir Deal, where he calls the song a personal favorite. It was really difficult to get a grip on it at first, he writes. It has a slow tempo, which makes it seem like it would be easy, but it calls for a slight reggae groove layered over a ballad. Rhythmically, the lengths aren't traditional, they're not just twos and fours. It's deceiving. Basically. You have to play the song in half time with the double time bounce on top. It's trickier than it sounds. Lets listen to that debut version from February.

[Robert Hunter]

Again, here's my half a dollar if you dare Double twist when you hit the L look at you lit down below.

[Jesse Jarno]

The door path there the double time bounce is in the kick drum, giving it a pretty different feel that doesn't imply reggae to my ears. I hear Road Jimmy not as an attempt to integrate reggae, but another chain in Jerry Garcia's songwriting looking for a new groove the Dead could sink their teeth into. It almost feels like the next iteration of Tennessee Jed. I hear the connection in the faster, earlier versions of both of those songs. Here's a brisk Tennessee jed from Chicago, October 22, 1971. Now Dave's picks three and here's Ramble On Rose from that same night. They're not sequels. So much as a series of rhythmic ideas. The common thread is that they seem like new grooves conceived for the purpose of being fun to play, and the suspicion that probably the Dead would bring something unexpected and cool to them, then matched accordingly with Robert Hunter lyrics. Last episode we discussed Keith God Show's Let Me Sing youg Blues Away, a song as harmonically complex as it was rhythmically straightforward. Musicologist Sean o' Donnell from the City College of New York had a different reaction to Road Jimmy.

[Sean O'Donnell]

I mean, for me, I find so appealing as a listener and so difficult trying to think of it as a musician is. It seems to be moving in multiple temporal realms. It's like in slow motion, but it also has a quicker lilt in there. Also, it's kind of mind blowing in its time sense. And that's really what's new about it, because harmonically, that'd be sort of the opposite of the God show tune. Here are just some regular chords moving. It's fairly typical rock progressions, but it's in molasses.

[Jesse Jarno]

When Garcia recorded his demo, he wasn't quite sure if the song was done yet, though it contains all of Robert Hunter's lyrics. No more, no less. Garcia also plays through a segment where he seems to leave room for another verse, or maybe it's just a placeholder for the slide guitar solo to come. In addition to the two layered pulses, there are other complications, as Sean points out and Kreuzman hints at in his book. The verses are 13 bars each, except for the first, which is 14 to accommodate the intro riff. And then the solos. We'll let Scott Metzger explain them.

[Sean O'Donnell]

The form of the solos is so. Again, it's so bizarre, you know, it's like these tunes do not play themselves. Like, you have to know the form of the solos on Ro Jimmy in order to get through it. You kind of can't fake your way through it, you know, you gotta know because the bars are very crooked, so to speak. Like, there's some bars of four, there's some bars of three, a couple of bars of two.

[Jesse Jarno]

By the end of the first tour, the feel had shifted slightly with a kick drum in halftime, thickening the molasses. Here's what one of those solos sounds like from Salt Lake City on February 28, 1973. Now Dix picks 28.

[Sean O'Donnell]

Like if you sat there again, just listens to Ro Jimmy and counted like 1, 2, 3, 4 over the solo section, it would not line up. It eventually lines up, but in the middle of it, there's all these crooked moments. Where the bars are landing in unexpected places.

[Jesse Jarno]

It got even slower by the spring, going from 60 bpm down to 50 if you count it at the halftime tempo. And this is where I hear the reggae start to come out, especially in Bob Weir's guitar part. This is from the May 26 version at Keysar Stadium on the Here Comes Sunshine box set. By July, it's safe to say Jerry Garcia had at least heard the soundtrack to the Harder They Come.

[Robert Hunter]

They tell me of a fly up in the sky Waiting for me when I die from the minute you fall to when you die.

[Jesse Jarno]

That was from Live at Keystone by Jerry Garcia and Merle Saunders, recorded a few weeks before the Wake of the Flood sessions, one of their first versions of the Jimmy Cliff song, which would become a Garcia staple for the next two decades.

[Robert Hunter]

And as sure as the sun will shine Gonna get my shit what's mine and then the heart wake up.

[Jesse Jarno]

Garcia would later cover Sitting In Limbo, and much later, Johnny Too Bad, tying it with Planet Waves for the most songs in Garcia's later songbook. In some ways, though, the issue isn't when Jerry Garcia absorbed reggae, but when his bandmates did. My guess is that the Dead's collective discovery of reggae helped them clarify the groove that Garcia had conceived for Ro Jimmy, which would become a durable part of the Dead songbook for the rest of their career. And in the bigger picture, it doesn't matter at all what rojimmy owes to reggae. Like Robert Hunter's lyrics, the groove is pretty durable, and no matter when they discovered reggae, they certainly weren't trying to imitate it anyway. And this is the other slippery part of Ro Jimmy that we've been studiously avoiding until just now. What's it all about.

[Robert Hunter]

Gonna get there I don't know Seems a common way to know get on Ro Ro There.

[Jesse Jarno]

Have been roughly five gazillion times when David Ganz has saved our collective tuchus. And today we've got another one. David interviewed Robert Hunter over a pair of sessions in 1977 for BAM, now collected in his book Conversations with the Dead, which we've linked [e-mail] deadcast thanks to the magic of David's tape recorder, we've got a whole lot of Robert Hunter today talking about his lyric writing and Ro Jimmy especially, so much that I'm going to take the honor and opportunity to welcome Robert Hunter to the Deadcast to talk about not only what a few songs mean, but how they mean.

[David Ganz]

Some of them are trying to make sense and others of them are just Dreams, you know, and sometimes I communicate dreams and sometimes I fail to communicate a dream and it doesn't make sense either. And that song kind of goes off into limbo, unless it has a really good beat to it, in which case people say, well, I can't hear the words, but it sounds good.

[Jesse Jarno]

David asked Hunter where rojimmy came from and got what seemed to be a fairly straightforward answer at first. Please hold your takes about how this all applies to Ro Jimmy until you make your way through this whole section of the episode. David was a bit off mic and some of the questioning happened mid conversation, so I'll stand in for those parts, just following David's line of questioning.

[David Ganz]

Ro Jimmy that's just chronicling in a somewhat surrealistic way a time when I left San Cristobal, New Mexico and took off walking. I was gonna walk to Denver and I walked all day and indeed walked a hole through my boots and found I'd walked the wrong direction. I'd walked to Taos all day. So then I turned around, hitchhiked off to Denver from there. But I don't know, it's kind of the sort of things that go through your head when you run away or whatever it was I was doing. I was leaving. I had no reason to be in New Mexico anymore, and I had no place to go from there particularly. And I just had a hankering to go on the road.

[Jesse Jarno]

We're of course, going to let Robert Hunter continue this seemingly true story and add two notes. The first is to gently remind you to hold those takes. Memory can be a fascinating thing sometimes. The second is to add that this particular trip out of New Mexico took place in the late summer of 1967, the end of the so called summer of love, back in San Francisco, and was, at least in some tellings, precipitated by Hunter mailing several sets of lyrics to his friend Jerry Garcia and Garcia telling him to get himself to San Francisco to become the Grateful Bed's new lyricist. However it unfolded, it wasn't a direct journey.

[David Ganz]

I had 20 bucks, a copy of Don Quixote and my black Stewart scarf, and I had thrown my glasses away a couple months before. I was determined that I would see. So I couldn't see. They had holes in my boots. A copy of Don Quixote. No shit. Walked the wrong way all day. I tried to sleep under a railroad trestle in a ditch and there was no sleep. And you know, as the sun went down, it started getting very cold and big juicy mosquitoes and everything. I was pretty exhausted. I got up and hitchhiked half the way to Denver, I guess, and cop stopped me. He said, look, I'm not going to arrest you because you could get arrested for hitchhiking there. He said, we just have to feed you, you know, and go off and don't let me catch any more.

[Jesse Jarno]

The story takes a turn. That sounds like it could be from an early Bob Dylan press bio.

[David Ganz]

Finally, I got picked up around Pike's Peak by a carnival truck. Yes, I did. Guy asked me if I wanted to join the carnival. And of course I wanted to join the carnival. It was a big truck. It said Haunted House on the back. So we got into Denver and it was storming and miserable and I only had a dollar and 75 cents left. The guy dropped me off there and the carnival was setting up in town the next day. And I couldn't find the phone number to get in touch with him in order to get over and get on that trip. And the carnival was out of town, set up and out of town before I knew it. I missed the carnival and got hung up in Denver for. For a month.

[Jesse Jarno]

It was a circuitous route back to the Bay Area.

[David Ganz]

Hitchhiked up through Laramie, out to Salt Lake City. I had a blowout going 100 miles an hour, right front blowout. Driving this car in Wyoming. That was quite an experience.

[Jesse Jarno]

We're going to skip a few parts in still a different telling of the story. Sometime after Denver, Hunter made it through Reno and with the help of a slot machine parlayed a nickel into enough coinage to call Garcia at 710 Ashbury and tell him he was on his way. He eventually made it back to California just before Labor Day, 1967.

[David Ganz]

Then out to Palo Alto again where I ran into Phil directly. And he said, hey, man, we're going up to Rionito, Russian river to play and we're doing Alligator and China Cat, Sunflower. I said, wow. So I came up, I sent them the lyrics for that from New Mexico. I went up and wrote the first album, Half a Dark Star that day. So I got right to work, you know, as soon as I fell right into was all happening.

[Jesse Jarno]

What's remarkable is that Robert Hunter was willing to then explain to David how his trip from New Mexico to the Bay Area fed into Ro. Jimmy, keep holding the takes.

[David Ganz]

That song is leaving New Mexico and walking through the desert. But the image in my mind, because what I'm doing when I'm leaving there chronologically that morning is I am taking my first totally committed step onto the road. Where I've decided I put it off long enough, I have no more business here, and it's time to go on the road. Because it seemed to me that everyone was supposed to do that at the time, including me. And I did it and I just, you know, cut completely loose and I went on the road and I jumped in the air, in other words. Now the question is, what can you make out of being on the road? You know, can I double twist while I'm there? Can I make something of this? You know, a figure? Can. Can I make an impression on my mind? Is something here that's going to last as going to do something to my character, whatever, make me hipper, wiser, whatever.

[Robert Hunter]

Look at you, the down below.

[Jesse Jarno]

But what about this part?

[David Ganz]

That's a injunction, you know, that's put in into you by a. You have no place on the road. And what you learn on the road is that you have no place on the road, you know, get back home is the message of the road. Get back home and make one find a home, you know. But the road is the wanderer. And this is a place that people have to go through to find where they belong and to situate there and.

[Jesse Jarno]

Then spread roots out far out here. David pointed out that some of the images that Hunter was describing pertaining to Road Jimmy could also apply to Mississippi Half Step. Listen closely for the sound of a light bulb going off over Robert Hunter's head.

[David Ganz]

Well, as a matter of fact, that's the sign I was talking about. I wasn't talking about Ro Jimmy at all. And I gave you a pretty convincing explanation, didn't I?

[Robert Hunter]

Oh, that's very different.

[David Ganz]

Okay, then, those two tunes, they're both on the same album, aren't they?

[Jesse Jarno]

Yes, sir. Mississippi Half Step and Ro Jimmy are both on Wake of the Flood, sir.

[David Ganz]

Well, okay, then it's easy to see that they're all part of the same consciousness of that time that I was involved in.

[Jesse Jarno]

All of which is to say that Hunter's whole story about hitchhiking happened more or less. And it did get Chandlerlin to a Grateful Dead song. Another way of putting that is to mentally project that whole story back two episodes and attach it in your mind to Mississippi Half Step.

[Robert Hunter]

All you've got to live for is what you've left behind get yourself a powder charge and seal it Seal your mind Lost my boots and transit me pile of smoking leather I nailed a retract to my feet and prayed for.

[David Ganz]

Better weather Hey, I can interpret as my problem, man. I can interpret things. You know, I'm a Kabbalist almost. I don't know anything about the Kabbalah, but, you know, hand me a copy like that, I'll tell you what it means. I can even interpret Robert Hunter lyrics. Throw me another.

[Jesse Jarno]

Okay, how about we do Ro Jimmy now? Actually, amid all of that, they did get pretty deep into Ro Jimmy, using its dreamlike lyrics as a stand in for Hunter's lyric. As a whole, the song actually contained two sets of Hunter's lyrics fused together.

[David Ganz]

Ro Jimmy Roque the original idea was how long, Jack till we get to Singapore how long Joe did we sign on for? Better keep balin While the rain pours down down the day crews sleeping and the night crews drowned and then the chorus was Row Jimmy, row Gonna get there I don't know. And I lifted that out of this other context and put it in there.

[Jesse Jarno]

That other context was a song called Fair to Even Odds. In his lyric collection A Box of Rain. Hunter notes that it was written concurrently with Friend of the Devil, which would place the first seed of the Ro Jimmy chorus in early 1970. Hunter would occasionally perform a fragment as a prelude to Ro Jimmy in his solo shows. And you can hear how the Keep on Bailing motif connected the hard luck sailor in Fair to Even Odds to the hard luck sailor in the chorus of Road Jimmy. This is from June 19, 1980, in London.

[David Ganz]

Better keep a daylight While the rain pours down the day crew's sleeping the night crews drowned how long, Jack till.

[Robert Hunter]

We get where we're going to how long Jimmy did we sign on for?

[David Ganz]

Just keep bailing the rain pours down the day crew's sleeping and the night crews drown.

[Jesse Jarno]

Later, Pete Sears of Jefferson Starship and a gazillion other Bay Area bands set the lyrics to music for his 2000 solo album, the Long Haul. If you'd like to hear the rest of how it goes, thanks to Alex Allen for pointing out these connections we've linked to Alex's [e-mail] deadcast how long.

[Robert Hunter]

Dragged till we get to Singapore how long Joe did we sign on for? Better keep bailing While the rain falls down Cause the dark.

[Jesse Jarno]

Grow Jimmy is a pretty dreamlike song to me, but Hunter's clarification of a central image here helps me ground the frame of the song a little more.

[David Ganz]

I like my little setups and that the characters. I like Julie catch a rabbit by the hair come back step like to walk on air. That's a whole song in itself. Then there's another song, look at Julie down below Levi doing the dopasso. That's another little thing. Here's my half dollar. If you dare double twist when you hit the air.

[Jesse Jarno]

David asked what it meant to hit the air.

[David Ganz]

I'm jumping down. Oh, I didn't make that clear. Come back step. Like to walk on here. Get back. Yeah. Well, it has this image, I guess, of jumping from the levee. Although actually, I guess I fancy a higher jump.

[Jesse Jarno]

Placing the whole song in the wilderness around a levee, over a river somewhere at the outskirts of town grounds the song somewhat.

[David Ganz]

Here's Julie doing this. You know, she's. Can you double twist when you hit the air? You know, it's kind of. What do you do when you face the void? You know, do passo. I don't know. Some kind of movement.

[Jesse Jarno]

And what's a dopasso?

[David Ganz]

Do paso is a square dance movement. There's a do sa do and a do paso like that in square dance. So I think on a dopasso, instead of going around like this, I think you do it with another partner. I don't remember exactly what it is now.

[Jesse Jarno]

Okay, the name of this call is do passo. The definition is turn your partner by the left corner, by the right, partner by the left. And if no other call is given.

[David Ganz]

It ends in a courtesy turn dollar. If you dare double twist and you hit the air is the main thrust of that is do you dare jump into the air at all? And once you've jumped the air, are you going to have presence of mind enough to do a trick?

[Robert Hunter]

Look at Julie down below the levy doing the door. I say Ro, give me Ro.

[David Ganz]

I guess that there have been times in my life that I haven't really cared whether I communicated directly or not. I had this idea that the impressions that I had in myself, the emotional impressions, would communicate through my symbols in this case, and they would communicate the emotional impression that I wanted, which a person would relate to his own experience. And it wasn't my business to authentically detail the experiences that led up to it, but rather to give impressions and those impressions, although can, like, relate to no one but myself.

[Robert Hunter]

Seems a common way to go get on.

[Jesse Jarno]

Julie. Jumping from the levee provides a central image to the song, but I've always held on to that last verse and this next bridge as providing parallel keynotes of longing that can focus Ro Jimmy emotionally. For me, the first is to just think about it as a breakup song.

[Robert Hunter]

Broken heart don't feel so bad I got half of what you thought you had Rock your baby to and fro not too fast and not too slow.

[Jesse Jarno]

The second is to look at it through a desire for the departed past. Not necessarily a nostalgia, but an acknowledgement that something is irretrievably gone. Maybe it's the world visible in the rear view mirror of the car that Keith God show is driving in Let Me Sing youg Blues Away while blasting the new radio powered top 10.

[Robert Hunter]

That's the way it's been in Jim, ever since they tore the jukebox.

[Jesse Jarno]

However you'd like to think about Row Jimmy, it provides a lot of space to do that, drifting over the seven minute mark at its slow, weird pace on the album version. By the time they got to the Record Plant to make Wake of the flood in August 1973, they'd performed it at virtually every show that year to date, nearly three dozen times. They set to tracking the song on Friday, August 10, the last day of the first week of sessions. It was perhaps the easiest of the whole album.

[Robert Hunter]

3, 4.

[Jesse Jarno]

If you'll notice on the new edition of the Angel Share, there's barely two minutes worth of road.

[Robert Hunter]

Jimmy catch a rabbit behind his head Come back Step would like to walk on in.

[Jesse Jarno]

We just heard a little bit of the incomplete first take, which Garcia stops for no obvious reason.

[Robert Hunter]

And I say, rome, Jimmy, Ronna, get. I don't know.

[David Ganz]

Let'S do another one.

[Jesse Jarno]

One thing to observe is that Keith Godshow is playing some kind of organ. Grateful Dead archivist David Lemieux, he's kind.

[David Lemieux]

Of moving away from, at least on the album, from the grand piano. And there is. There's a lot of electric sounds coming out of Keith's fingers and they're really, really good.

[Jesse Jarno]

Brian Kehue is the engineer who got the Angel Share recordings into shape.

[Sean O'Donnell]

It's kind of a standout on these records because it changes their vibe in a way to a different thing. And I, you know, I can see where they wanted to be. One foot in the past, but also modern. It does keep them up with what's happening at the time, maybe even a little bit ahead of it too, because they're not going for space rock, hawk, wind, you know, type of synthesizer sounds. They're going for very musical ones, which makes more sense. But it does have a little less feel of the foot in the past that they always tend to keep the.

[Jesse Jarno]

Track sheet for Ro. Jimmy reveals that the keyboard sound for the song is actually a combination of two keyboards, a Farfisa, the same kind of good old combo organ that Pigpen played during the Dead's early days. The other is a clavinet, Perhaps the famous D6 model introduced in the early 70s, heard most clearly on the bridge. In the spring of 1973, Keith Gotcho had added offender Rhodes to his stage setup, and he plays on the studio version of Ro Jimmy overdubbed onto the final take.

[Robert Hunter]

Seems a common way. Begin. Get out. Roll. Roll.

[Jesse Jarno]

But Keith had never played any kind of electric organ on stage before the sessions. Brian Kehoe knows from keyboards. One of his other gigs is as the touring keyboard tech, an occasional fill in keyboardist for the who.

[Sean O'Donnell]

I think it's important to note for keyboard players that electric piano, real piano, they have this touch control that's about as important as the notes you play, and a Hammond organ doesn't. Any kind of organ is a very fixed volume, so if you pound on it harder, it doesn't change the levels. But on a piano, an electric piano or a clavinet even, you can play softer, louder, with just your finger control, and that's a very important part of your expression. So for him, it must have been weird to have a synthesizer show up that just plays a stiff C minor chord or a G chord, and it doesn't do anything but just hold that steady note. So it's kind of limiting in a way, but it does add a new color, which many people felt was very exciting and interesting, but it feels electronic against what they're doing, Whereas a Hammond organ, given its nature, sounds a lot more organic.

[Jesse Jarno]

I do find it a bit of a strange call to have Keith play it live in the studio and not overdub it later. But it does add more of a reggae touch, though filtered through slightly fancier keyboards. Though he'd experimented with the B3 on stage in the fall of 1973, it never made it to Ro Jimmy. Take two of Ro Jimmy was also incomplete. Just a groove setting.

[David Ganz]

Let's get that groove steady for a while. It's rushed a little.

[Jesse Jarno]

On take three. They made it through a complete version.

[Robert Hunter]

Jimmy Ronna get there? I don't know.

[Jesse Jarno]

Someone asks if they're going to attempt a fourth, and Garcia poses a fine question.

[David Ganz]

What was wrong with that?

[Jesse Jarno]

Like me, musicologist Sean o' Donnell loves the way Weir's rhythm guitar part ties the room together.

[Sean O'Donnell]

One of the most beautiful parts and listening to the record again is Bob's sort of pizzicato background. And it's an amazing part of this time sense, like how all the parts create the whole script for this song. In the chorus, his little pizzicato, palm muted with his right hand, is just really, it's just perfect.

[Robert Hunter]

Don't hang your head and let the two tight.

[Sean O'Donnell]

The instrumental parts would all be like fragments of a tune. So in some ways it's them hitting their stride as like a chamber music group here. This record. There's bits of Here Comes Sunshine that are like that too, where it's the composite that really holds it together.

[Jesse Jarno]

Something else that's worth mentioning here about Road Jimmy and reggae in the summer of 1973. In general, homegrown Jamaican pop music had been born in part from the enormous sound systems that thrived in Kingston starting in the late 1950s, evolving through a variety of styles before becoming reggae. The sound systems continued to evolve too, a fixture of Jamaican music and sometimes emigrated from Jamaica along with their owners. Ro Jimmy, which may or may not have been influenced by reggae, was recorded on Friday, August 10th in Sausalito. The next day, Saturday, August 11th, the dead went back to the Record Plant for some more work. And across the country in the Bronx, one place where reggae had definitely taken root, a Jamaican born teenager nicknamed Cool Herc DJ'd what would become known as the founding party of Hip Hop Apache by the Incredible Bongo Band definitely wasn't reggae, but it sounded next level when getting blasted from an imported Jamaican sound system. Jamaican music would transform American music in the next half decade and take deeper root in and around the Dead, though in pretty different ways than in the Bronx. In August 1973, it was obvious there were new grooves in the air. Besides Keith Gadchau's Clavineth, there aren't a whole lot of overdubs on Road Jimmy. But I'll note that the vocals are especially sweet.

[Robert Hunter]

Sings A comma Way to go. Get out no more.

[Jesse Jarno]

Please welcome back Mrs. Donna Jean Gotcho McKay.

[Donna Jean Godchaux McKay]

One of the things that I loved singing with the Grateful Dead about was the fact that so much of the vocals, it's not like background vocals, it's ensemble singing. There were background vocals on certain songs in certain parts, but a great deal was ensemble singing. I mean, you take Working Man's a Dead and American Beauty and you got ensemble singing on so many of those songs. And it translated as well to the next era that included Wake of the Flood and Mars Hotel and Blues for Allah. Just a lot of ensemble singing. And that was really fun. We would have to work on the harmonies, but I had been singing harmony since I was 6 years old, and so that wasn't a real struggle for me, but it was, you know, taking it into a group format and knowing where the Tone of your voice is going to fit in within the chord structure and determining all of that between three people. So that's fun. That's fun. Figuring that stuff out.

[Robert Hunter]

Way to go. Get out.

[Donna Jean Godchaux McKay]

It was always so much fun doing vocals with Jerry and Bobby. Every time we encircled that microphone, it dissolved into a comedy routine. And they were both so funny. And we would laugh and laugh and laugh, and we had the best time around the microphones in the studio.

[Jesse Jarno]

Robert Hunter himself was a little skeptical about the album version, telling WLIR in 1978 that he thought it was maybe a little bit too slow. As always, sorry about the cruddy audio quality and all. Loved the Deadheads who preserved this.

[David Ganz]

I think some of the problems with the real choice of tempos on tunes like Roy. Jimmy Rowe is a good example of a tune which works very, very well at that tempo stage because with all the power, they can just get the place, you know, rocking slowly back and forth. I don't really think it translates to the album at that temple. A bit quicker would have moved it.

[Jesse Jarno]

Row Jimmy would stay a favorite in the repertoire, though it would get slightly more rare in the later 70s and early 80s. The band's road hiatus year of 1975 would be the only year it didn't get played at all the definition of a durable tune. Unlike a few songs on Wake of the Flood, Road Jimmy would retain its core feel for the remainder of its time in the band's repertoire. Though different eras of the song would highlight different parts of the song's dynamics, the song became a forum for Jerry Garcia's rare slide guitar playing. This is from November 17, 1973 in LA. Now Dave's picks five. One of many beautiful versions from those fall tours. It remained an outlet for Garcia's slide. Usually, but not always. Here's Garcia describing it in 1981.

[Sean O'Donnell]

Little Red Rooster and Ro Jimmy Row.

[David Ganz]

Are the only tunes that I really play slide on in. And even those, you know, partially, I sometimes I take the slide off and play a normal solo, saying one of them or, you know, nothing is hard and fast in the Grateful Dead.

[Jesse Jarno]

Garcia's slide is one thing to keep an ear out for. The non slide versions are a bit rare, like this one from June 22, 1973 in Vancouver, now on the Pacific Northwest box. Perhaps the slide got confiscated at the border in practice. At least Bill Kreutzman felt like it took a while to get the song in hand. Ballads used to scare me a little, he told Blair Jackson in 1989, because it's harder to find a groove on them. Not Stella Blue, which is pretty straight ahead, but on something like Road Jimmy, for instance, I just wasn't sure the band had the groove on it. Or maybe I just didn't have it in my heart. But I've learned how to deal with it, and now I'll just sit right in the middle of the quarter beats. I used to feel hesitant about certain songs because I didn't think we could just jump into the feeling.

[Robert Hunter]

Crash and wheel to a power throw.

[Jesse Jarno]

That's the May 8, 1977 version. What the song sounded like. With Mickey Hart back in the fold, the reggae coming out even more. Unlike some of the more progressive songs from the Wake of the Flood era, Garcia's rhythmic concept made it a good fit for the Double Drummer Dead, giving them room to play. You can hear Keith Godschow playing around with his new Polymoog, moving it slightly closer to the original sound on the album. Brent Midlin would embrace the expanded keyboard colors more in the 1980s, David Lemieux.

[David Lemieux]

Brent did some beautiful things on it. There was a lot of space in that song. It wasn't in your face the whole time. There was a lot of quiet moments, and in those spaces, rather than, you know, a lot of bands would just fill those spaces. All six guys would fill it with sound. The Dead didn't do that. So when it was Brent's turn to fill some of those spaces, I loved it.

[Jesse Jarno]

Midland even sometimes took a solo of his own before Garcia's second. This is from trucking up to Buffalo, July 4, 1989.

[David Lemieux]

I even remember seeing Weir quite a few times when they would do it. He'd hold his guitar like he was rowing during the quiet part at the end, and when it got that little shuffle going at the end. Just really, really exceptional. Just loved it.

[Jesse Jarno]

One thing I like about the later versions is how the outro course of the song developed its own dynamics. The first pass through was a sing along, then leaning into the reggae feel. This One is from March 26, 1990, at Nassau Coliseum, now in the spring 1990 box. Like so. And then the final chorus has become a place for the band to hang ornamentation. Not quite soloing, not quite jamming. Listen what Bruce Hornsby is playing here. This is from View from the Vault 2, June 14, 1991.

[Robert Hunter]

I don't know, Ro.

[Jesse Jarno]

Jimmy is a classic example of a song staying the same while the Grateful Dead changed around it. To demonstrate and maybe get a new perspective on the song's evolution, we've assembled A supercut version a few seconds from the earliest takes, starting with Jerry's home demo, an early live version, and the Wake of the Flood recording, followed by a little bit from each year the song was in rotation. It might be a little bumpy. I'll read off the dates afterwards, but it's fascinating to hear it evolve from the original conception through its different textures and feels around the pulse.

[Robert Hunter]

1, 2, 3, 4. Julie catch a rabbit Find yourself come back step like to walk on hell Run back home where you belong don't you run off no more don't hang your head and let the two time go Grass sack nail to a pinewood fleet Ask the time baby I don't know Come back back later on I don't know I seem to come up way to go get down Ro Sam Here's a half a dollar if you dare double twist when you hit the.

[Jesse Jarno]

End.

[Robert Hunter]

Look at Julie down below the Levit on the doorbell.

[David Ganz]

I see Ro.

[Robert Hunter]

Ch.

[David Ganz]

Mo.

[Robert Hunter]

Seems a common way Sam Broken heart don't feel so bad you ain't got half of what you thought you had Rock your baby to and fro not too fast and not too slow I say Ro ch seems to come up way to go get down Roll, roll, roll, roll Ro that's the way it's been town ever since they told the two bucks down stupid peace don't find no more not so much as it done before.

[David Ganz]

And I0.

[Robert Hunter]

Going to get there I don't know.

[Jesse Jarno]

Scenes.

[Robert Hunter]

Are coming Whoa, whoa, whoa I'm zero Jimmy get there I don't know yeah I don't know Way to go get down the road Ro get down We've.

[Jesse Jarno]

Posted a standalone video with a full link of dates and [e-mail] Deadcast, but we started with Jerry's solo demo from January 1973. The debut at Stanford on February 9th RFK Stadium on June 10th, 1973 the Wake of the Flood version Boston Garden on June 28th, 1974 Boston Music hall on June 10th, 1976 Winterland on June 8th, 1977 MacArthur Court and Eugene on January 22nd, 1978 Oakland Auditorium arena on December 28th, 1979 NASA Coliseum on May 16th, 1980 Hartford Coliseum on May 11th, 1981 Madison Square Garden on September 20th, 1982 Worcester Centrum on October 20th, 1983 Niagara Falls Convention center on April 17th, 1984 Saratoga Performing Arts center on June 25th, 1985 Oakland Coliseum on December 16th, 1986 Hartford Civic center on March 26th, 1987 Oxford Plains Speedway and Main on July 2nd, 1988, Buffalo on July 4th, 1989, NASA Coliseum on March 26th, 1990, RFK Stadium on June 14th, 1991, Oakland Coliseum on December 16th, 1992 Madison Square Garden on September 20th of 1993, NASA Coliseum on March 23rd, 1994 and Portland Meadows on May 28th, 1995. The very last version and after the Grateful Dead, Ro Jimmy wasn't going anywhere. The first recorded reggae cover arrived on the Fire on the mountain tribute in 1996, sung by Bob Marley collaborator Judy Mowat.

[Robert Hunter]

Truly catch a rabbit by his ear.

[David Ganz]

Come back stepping like you're walking on.

[Robert Hunter]

Ear get back home where you belong.

[David Ganz]

And don't you run away no.

[Jesse Jarno]

Fish's Trey Anastasio has done it, one of the few Dead tunes he's done outside his collaborations with members of the Dead themselves. Indie folkies the Decemberists have done it too, recording it on their 2011 EP Long Live the King.

[Robert Hunter]

I don't know.

[Jesse Jarno]

Road Jimmy is too weird to be a standard, exactly like Robert Hunter's lyrics. It's a dream ready for dreaming. We'll end with one more quote from David Ganz's 1977 conversation with Hunter. Not necessarily about Ro Jimmy, but not necessarily not about Ro Jimmy either.

[David Ganz]

You know, I really, I really, really would prefer not to get into tearing apart the symbology of my own songs, and I'll tell you why. Because symbols are evocative. If there were a more definite way to say things than with the symbols, then you'd say it that way.

[Sean O'Donnell]

Mama.

[Robert Hunter]

Way.

[Rich Mahan]

Thanks very much for tuning in to the good old Grateful Dead cast. We'd like to thank our guests in this episode Donna Jean Godsho McKay, Robert Hunter, David Lemieux, Brian Kehue, Sean O' Donnell and Scott Metzger. Extra special thanks to friend of the Dead cast David Ganz for contributing audio from his interview archive. So great to hear that extensive interview with Robert Hunter. Thanks very much for tuning in. And don't forget to like subscribe and share an episode on your social media. And give us your Wake of the Flood related stories by recording yours [e-mail] Executive Producers for the good old Grateful Dead cast Mark Pincus and Doron Tyson. Produced for Rhino Entertainment by Rich Mahan Productions and Jesse Jarno. Special thanks to David Lemieux. All rights reserved.