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A
Support for this show comes from pure leaf iced tea.
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When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need pure leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the right amount of naturally occurring caffeine. You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a pure leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf. This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion Ebay things people. Can I manifest something?
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A
Sure, yeah, please. That's why I thought I'd bring.
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B
Well, Marvel now has regained the rights to X Men. I think it would be a really cool idea to have a trans woman be mystique.
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A
This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer, Vulture, and author of comedy book. My guest this episode is Jinx Monsoon. We discuss Drag Race, Drag Race All Stars, and O Mary, the Broadway comedy she stars in through September 27th. Get your tickets now. We also discuss roast jokes, what makes good ones and ones that are not so good. Jinx does like six or seven impressions throughout the interview, and you'll never guess what TV theme song she sings. So here is Jinkx Monsoon. I'm here with Jinkx Monsoon. Thank you for joining me.
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B
Thank you for having me.
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A
So what is the funniest thing that happened to you this week?
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B
I have been waiting for somewhere to tell this story. That's why we asked, because this just happened. And I very much, I orchestrated this funny thing, but it was ten times funnier than I could have prepared for. So unbeknownst to me, until moments before the curtain at our O Mary performance on Tuesday evening, out from like a random room I didn't know exists comes Katy Perry and her people. And Kumail's the only one who notices her and goes, that was Katy Perry, everyone. And so I know in my mind Katy Perry's at the show. What do you do with that. Right? And there was a moment when I accidentally made direct eye contact with her, and I felt like I was frozen to stone. And my next line was, great big ball sacks. And I delivered it right to her, you know? And so, I don't know, I was just, like, staring down the barrel, like, what am I gonna do with all of this? And I KN she was gonna be backstage afterward, and I was seeing my friend Sam Lansky. We were each other's first boyfriend, among other things. And so I had been so thinking about seeing my friends that night. I hadn't prepared. So I'm in my dressing room post show. What is the funniest thing I can say to Katy Perry? Now, sometimes when I decide what's the funniest thing I can say to someone, I get nervous. So instead of just saying it, I prep them, and then I say it.
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A
Like, you go. I was thinking, what would be the funniest thing to say to you? Exactly. And this is what I thought of.
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B
And so this is how the exchange went. I'm catching up with old friends. I feel a tap on my shoulder. I turn around. I am now I locked with Katy Perry, who has a big smile on her face. And I say, katy Perry, I don't know what to say to you, but I have been thinking, what would be the funniest first words that I could possibly utter to you? And she says, okay, so what? What are they? And I said, so now you're back from out of space? And then I just looked at her and I said, is that funny? And she goes, those were the first words you wanted to say to me? And I said, was it funny? And she said, it was very funny. It was hilarious. But she didn't laugh at all. She just said. And then she's friends with mutual friends there. And so next thing I know, I'm just, like, saying hi to old friends. And every time I look over my shoulder, Katy Perry's like, oh, yeah, tell me about that. I was like, okay, Katy Perry, I'll tell you about my first blow job. Sure. You know what I mean? How do you prepare for that? And I honestly, it's like, I'm so glad I just went with what would be the funniest thing I could say to her? Because what does one say?
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A
I'm sure we've met famous people before. Is it always like that?
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B
I've met famous people before, yes. And it's not always like that, no. Because I do believe that there is a level of fame that we know those of us with any access, adjacency, or notoriety ourselves, you know, we know what it's like to a degree. So, like, the level of notoriety I'm at right now, you know, I get recognized, people ask me for photos, and that's just being me. Right. A fairly niche queer celebrity. Right. And then I think about people like Madonna and Cher and Katy Perry and the. These pop stars. And specifically women. Yeah, pop stars who have been famous for so long, multiple decades, and what we know the industry does to women. And I guess I have to give them some grace. That doesn't mean I, you know, I. I disagree with so many things so many people do. Right. So I don't want this to sound like I'm saying, like, don't hold people for their bad behavior. But I think we need to put it through the context, through the lens of what we know to be true. And what I know to be true is fame is difficult. And I think global, universal, household name kind of fame, I can't even imagine. And frankly, I hope I never have to figure that out for myself. Because my favorite thing about my life right now is all the community that I get out of it. And if I ever lost touch with that, I'd lose touch with why I'm doing this.
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A
Yeah. If you get so famous where you can't have community because it's like there's six people as famous as you are, and they can't be hanging out. They have to, like, just live their solo lives.
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B
And I can't even imagine. So I don't know. That's why I'm saying. What does one say? Like, I have been thinking a lot these days, like, there are people I have choice words for. I've shared some recently, but then I think if I looked that person in the eyes, I don't even. I mean, because, like, I try to come from love. And I always, always, always, you know, people will tell me stories, and I hear stories about this person or that person, and it's like, it gets in. But I always try to reserve how I feel about a person until I meet, like, you know, but, like, you have to always have the context in there. You have to think of everything. And that's really hard to do in a split second.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. You know, while you.
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A
You're doing a show, the entire time, you're like, during a show, but also part of it.
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B
And I was trying so hard not to think about it. And I was pretty good until I looked directly in her eyes. Cause I had not paid attention to where she might be. And I'm really good at doing the soft focus where I can't really. I can look into the audience, but I don't really see people. You. But this was the monologue I delivered directly to the audience. And so I'm like. And I'm like, forcing my eyes open, looking at people, and that's when I am like. And so from that moment forward, my brain is thinking, luckily, that's like my last big monologue.
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A
The show has a certain sort of rhythm.
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B
Yeah. Once I get past a certain point, you know, other people have harder jobs, but so in those moments where I'm kind of just listening in repose, I was also thinking, what is life? What is life?
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A
Yeah.
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That truly, like, I love my life so much and it has become surreal to a point that I'm like, I didn't know I would ever be in that moment where I'm trying to think of what's the funniest thing to say to Katy Perry. But here we are.
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A
Yeah, life can't prepare you for that.
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B
And then the following. I met Charlie Day and I gotta tell you, I freaked out. It was Charlie Day. You know, I'm just like, what is my life? I was thinking, have you ever noticed that there's kind of like a. Like a comedy club? There's like the young cool Queer comedy club, and then there's the middle aged, like, alt comedy club, and then there's the old veterans who, you know, anyway.
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A
But yes, I'm familiar with these clubs.
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B
And here I am looking at members of one of the clubs I've always just kind of dreamt of even just being adjacent to. And I'm getting to say I've seen like every episode of It's Always Sunny. Like, I love it, you know, and it's one of those shows where it's like, this does not line up with anything of who I am, but it makes me feel like this must be what Bianca Del Rio fans feel like. Right? Like purposefully watching something rotted because you need to get it out and these people are doing it for you.
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A
Did you tell that to Charlie?
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B
I didn't tell all that to Charlie. I told Charlie how much I loved the show. And, you know, call on me, I'll do pretty much anything. I was watching Alana Eubok on her clips on It's Always Sunny. She plays a recurring sad, sad character. And she is. She is like one of the most versatile actresses out there. And I admire her so much. And we were chatting one day and. And then I had to watch clips of her and everything and listen to La Llorona like eight times. But anyway, I brought her up to him and then he started doing impressions of her. He goes, man, this jacket is tighter than dick skin. You know, I got to watch Char Day do an impression on one of the characters, and I told him, you know, I love the show. I love each and every one of you. Please tell the whole gang, eh, eh, how much I love the show. But I have to admit, I've always related to Sweet D and Caitlin Olsen the most because I've always been the chick in the group full of guys. They were gay guys, and I wasn't a chick then, but. And of course, Charlie laughed and Kumail's just sitting there like. Cause like, Kumail and I have become such fast friends and he has such cool friends. I was like, I guess I wasn't prepared for all of this.
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A
Yes, because Kumail, because in many ways the show, as you mentioned, there's these sort of groups of comedy, and definitely this was on the radar of the sort of ascending queer comedy scene of the last five, 10 years. But, like, Kumail is like a centerpiece of the comedy scene that was before that. So think I. Everyone who was like, who's around 38 to 45 that you might have liked will probably come to the show.
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B
Well, Anne, this is the beautiful thing about casting and having such a diverse cast in such a well written, well directed show is like we each get to really shine with our own special brand of what we bring to the roles. But then there's also the audiences we bring. Like Michael Urie attracts a different audience, then I attract, then Jen Harris attracts, then Kumail attracts. And it's like in the same day we're meeting Drew Droege and Charlie Day and Katy Perry, and Paula Pell was there yesterday. She's such a good friend of mine and, well, she's such a good person. I don't want to make it sound like we're like tea every day, but we do text each other pictures of our pets. And Paula yesterday came by my apartment to drop off clothes she wanted to donate to queer drag performers, of whom I know many. And in Portland, Oregon, we've already been donating a lot of my backlog to queer charity. So we know right where to send Paula's sequin caftans. What is live, Jesse?
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A
It's wild. Well, I want to back up for a sec for context, for our conversation, for people who maybe are less familiar with drag. You started drag before Drag was mainstream, was in many ways in the opposition to the mainstream. It has now become more mainstream, but also, as a result, there has been a target place on its back in many ways. This is sort of a big question, so take your time. How has your understanding of what drag is for evolved?
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B
This is easy. Well, there was a time I thought comedy was frivolous. I think we're taught that in our society. I think it's hinted at in acting school that there's a hierarchy of theaters or there's a hierarchy of performance level, you know, like, what kind of things you do. And I remember feeling like, you know, the whole thing was, don't get pigeonholed. Don't get pigeonholed. Don't become a character actor. And by senior year, I was like, I'm clearly a character actor, and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be okay. You know, like, I had an internship my senior year, and I went straight into working as a character actor in Seattle. So what was the original question?
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A
What is drag for?
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B
Oh, yeah, okay. So I thought comedy was frivolous. It's not. It's divine. Right. There's a reason why the comedy mask is right there with the tragedy mask. It takes both. When Dayla. Excuse me. When Bendelacreme and I created the Jinx and De La Holiday show, it started out as something fun we wanted to do, and it's become something that we find as, like, our service to our community. Yes, we get a lot from it, but we hear from people every night that they get a lot from it too. And over the years, it's evolved from something just kind of fun and silly into something that's fun and silly and very important to us.
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A
Yeah.
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So I just think, especially in times as dark as these, the ability to make people laugh, even through tears, is like, it's been such a privilege, you know? And I'm being told every night, just like at the Chinks and Taylor holiday show, being told at Pirates the Penzance musical, which was very silly but had heart and a message. You know, we needed this. They keep saying, we really needed this. And then at Omar, people are saying, you don't know how much I needed to laugh. And again, I was teasing Bianca Del Rio. But you know what? Do you know what I love about her audiences? Do you know who her? Like, a big portion of her audience is lawyers, doctors, surgeons, ER responders, like, the people who see the worst of everything. So her, you know, her spicy humor is a break for them somehow. And I think that that's divine, you know, and, oh, Mary, obviously there's something really true and honest that everyone can see easily there.
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Yeah.
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And it's not hard to look. The heart is beating loudly. The message rings clear. And also, it is the silliest, silliest, stupidest stuff that I think ever made it Broadway. I don't know. I don't know every Broadway show that's ever happened, but I. It's really interesting.
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A
Yeah.
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Because it's so authentic to what Cole created, even in the most mainstream of markets. And we're learning that the world, you know, I was told my whole life, our society, the world, you have to tone these things down to have a career, because the world isn't ready for people who are that much, you know, and that's why I had to go to drag, because I was too much for where I started. And. And now too much is not too much, because I think we've seen what too much looks like. Drag queens are not too much these days.
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A
Do you think of Omari as a drag performance?
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B
I think of all theater as a drag performance. I mean, I don't want to side.
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A
No, it's fine. That's, I think, part of the every.
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B
I would watch David Hyde Pierce become the modern major general, and I'm like, we're wearing the same amount of makeup, the same amount of fake hair, the same amount of costumery, just different gender presentations, you know, and he steps fully into his character, just like a drag queen. And the reason why, drag and high stakes, high preservation, presentation, comedy and musicals, and they all have these similarities, especially in the performance style and the performance aesthetic and presentation. It's because it all stems back to, like, classical clown archetype, building form, building to inform the character, to inform the audience. It's all the same thing. And really, at Sunset Boulevard, it's the. The same thing. Even if she. If it's all stripped back and she's wearing a slip the whole time, it's the same thing. It's just with like the. It's the 10% version. Like, right now, am I in drag.
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A
Or aren't I had it written down. Are you in drag or aren't? Well, I was just gonna write. Are you in drag? Do you feel like when you do oppressed tour, it is a certain sort of drag?
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B
Yeah, yeah. It's my press drag. Like, that's how we refer to it. Because I'm not in drag, and I'm not in drag. I'm in as much drag as any other female actress would be. On your podcast. I mean, how many women are wearing hair that didn't grow that way? Let's just say. Or didn't grow on their head? How many? Right. How many women are wearing as much makeup as me these days? And I'm wearing the same amount of makeup I wear on stage, just different hues.
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A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
Right. You know what I mean? And I was styled today. Every actress is styled, you know, like. So what is the difference? There isn't any. You're in drag right now, too.
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A
Yeah, I mean, I'm wearing makeup.
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B
Yeah.
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A
A little bit.
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B
I think the hat, this hat, the glasses, the choice of that style of pen versus any other pen. Everything. Even the things that seem unassuming.
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A
No, I mean, I will say this is. This is. I'm not gonna pretend this was like, an unintentional. I wear essentially the exact same outfit every single episode of the show for that reason. Because.
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B
Because that's your character you've built, and that's the way you want everyone to perceive you, and you've put thought into it. And we all do it. We just do it at different levels. Drag queens take the dial for that and go. Go and break the dial off. That's the only difference. Everyone else is kind of finding a way to turn the bass up, turn the treble down. Drag queens just give me that.
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A
Yeah. Everything to the max, you know, how does it. So, like, when I spoke to Dela and there is a certain divide for him, do you feel like it's less about a divide as much as a spectrum of the amount of. Yeah. I don't even know what I would refer to expecting.
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B
No, I hear you. I hear you. I don't know. I'm figuring this out as I go. Yeah, Right. Like, I'm not the first drag queen to transition, and I'm not the only drag queen transitioning right now. We're all figuring it out.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But there have always been trans women who do drag, and then you see them in their day wear, and sometimes they're glam, and sometimes they're wearing their sweats like any woman. Right. Like, so I'm still figuring out. But what I like to think of is, again, think of anyone who has a stage name or pen name. So Jinkx Monsoon was my drag name, and it still is. I still do drag in many contexts. The Jinx and De La Holiday show, the tiles up over here, you know, and you'll see the difference when I look like, that's not the woman I saw across the table from me. That is like some kind of mutant blow up doll, alien witch lady, you know. So there's clearly an aesthetic difference, but we're just figuring it out. So we kind of call my chosen name is Her. We call this Hera Drag. Even though I'm still here as Jinx Monsoon. Cause that's my stage.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And this is a staged contest.
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B
Did that make it any sense?
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A
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that what's so fascinating is it's a thing one figures out. I think people in a lot of these conversations want there to be an answer and be like drag is this. And I only am doing drag there because I think people are not comfortable with the idea that they are doing some version of drag in their everyday life so much as they're choosing.
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B
And furthermore, if you have changed your appearance, then you've transitioned a little bit. I'm not now, I'm not saying that like everybody's trans. That is not what I'm saying. So don't conflate this into something else. What I'm saying is we all use the same things to affirm ourselves that trans people use Again, trans people turn the dialogue to where they are comfortable. If you're born, eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from EBGLIS. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. EBGLIS Librekizumab LBKZ a 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh.
- [25:12]
A
At least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called.
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Atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled. With prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur.
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A
Tell your doctor if you have new.
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B
Or worsening eye problems.
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A
You should not receive a live vaccine.
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B
When treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about ebglis and visit epgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad delivered so fast you can get this puppy under control fast. We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast pads, cooling mat, Pegham are fast and fast. And there's training T R E A T s faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute. Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on Prime. Feeling comfortable the way you are and the way you're perceived. You don't have to turn that dial very much. And then you assume that no one turns the dial. I'm serious. But think of how many women dye their hair. Think of how many men go to the gym every day. I mean, think of how many CIS people are using the same drugs that trans people are using for their hormone imbalances, which were. And those drugs, how did they come into existence from the studies done to help trans people transition.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So like we need to stop it.
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A
Yeah. It's extremely normalized to have most likely straight guys talking about taking testosterone and they have no idea at anything.
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B
And imagine, imagine being a trans person watching straight men, the same straight men.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Who want to ban our right to the hormones they're taking in America where we're all supposed to have the same rights without question.
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A
Yeah.
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B
At all, first of all.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So what the hell is going on here?
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A
I don't know.
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B
Well, that's why I kind of don't give a shit anymore. I'm, I, I just, like I said, I mean, they are not working with truth, they're working with lies. So I have to double down on the truth. And I try not to get angry because what good would being angry at you in this moment? Like, what good would being angry right now do? Or even getting angry in person. Like, where my power is, is doubling down on how I get the truth out. And every time I'm on stage, whether I'm doing scripted material or I'm talking out my ass or I'm doing my own material, well, I'm just trying to be honest because we're being lied to in every direction, and artists have to step up and double down on the truth.
- [29:12]
A
When you first saw O Mary, Off Broadway, I believe. Do you remember the moment in the show where you go, this is me. This is. I could have written this show. I mean, obviously, it's so specific to Cole, but there's so many parallels.
- [29:25]
B
I mean, it was so. I saw it at the Lortel before it went, like, shortly before the Broadway transfer was announced. And it was like, I could hear the rumblings after the show. I could hear the little whispers of, like, yeah, I love things hoon tongues. Because, you know, it's friends after the show, saying hi and. And, okay, I'm watching the show. Ten minutes in, I'm thinking, Cole's. I already knew Cole was a genius. I've been Cole's friend for about 13, 15 years now. I've been following Cole's career for 20 years from YouTube. And that's when YouTube was new. It was a new app. We didn't call it an app. It was a website.
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A
It was just a website you typed in. I don't even think there was search. Maybe there was search, but, like, yeah.
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B
Anyway, so I know Cole's work from way back.
- [30:20]
A
Well, to tangent. Do you remember the moment where you saw Cole do something and you're like, this person's a genius?
- [30:25]
B
Yeah. It was way back then. Cole doing Bernadette peters on a YouTube video. And it was just. It wasn't that Cole was doing a drag impersonation of Bernadette Peters. It was that Cole just was doing the work of an actor and became Bernadette Peters for the video. You know what I mean? Wearing, like, nothing but lipstick, because Cole's gorgeous in a wig. And so I've known Cole and going in, I've said this for a while. I think Cole's the funniest person alive right now. And so I go into oh, Mary already. Just. I know I'm gonna love it because it's Cole. Ten minutes in, I'm thinking, wow, this is incredible. This has to keep going and have a bigger life. And, you know, I've had to play producer. I've had to play director. You know, my brain thinks a lot of different ways when I consume things now. And I'm sitting there and my producer brain is thinking, well, this has to go on. This has to get bigger. This has to go to another place. It has to go to the West End. It has to go to Broadway. Cole's gonna be amazing. I wonder if anyone else could play us. No. Look at what Cole's doing. Only Cole could do this. And then we get about 10 minutes further into the script, and I, like, the writing is so good that I was already thinking, well, if I played it, I could see how I could do it like this. And the writing is so good that even though Cole is undeniably a singular talent, any capable, competent comedic actor can look at that material and say, I know exactly what to do with this character. And there was a. I was watching the video of Cole to study blocking and lines and stuff at the beginning of the rehearsal process. Towards the end of the rehearsal process, I thought I'd watch it one more time, just to brush up. I watched it for, like, a minute, and I was like, I can't. We're doing completely different. Mary's, like, everything was different. But that's because the writing is that good.
- [32:41]
A
Yeah. I mean, definitely seeing it with both of you, it made it more clear, the writing of the character and how much potential is for it to be taken in different ways. Could you pinpoint or even articulate how you feel like your Mary is different?
- [32:56]
B
No. I'm still like, I don't know. I play her, so I don't know if she's different. I know. You know? I know. I know this. All I'm worried about is playing the truth and the honesty of the scene. And it's easy not to break even when the funniest shit is coming out of your mouth or your scene partner's mouth. It's easy not to break if you treat it like, this is funny to me, the actress, but to the character, this is life or death. And we had to talk about that a lot in the Penzance musical because the premise of that show is insanely stupid. The text is very old. You know, we had to contextualize everything, but. But one of the first things Scott Ellis said is, like, the stakes couldn't be higher. This whole show takes place in one day. So even though everything's stupid, you have to remember they are threatening to kill each other. To them, this is extremely serious. So the more you play what's true for the character and true in the world of the show, the funnier it's gonna be. Because if you're leaning into the jokes, that might be funny. If you're leaning in. In a wink, wink, ha. That might be funny. But it only lets us hear the material to a point, because at a certain point, we're watching you doing your shtick, and we're not listening to the script, you know? And so that's why the casting has been so brilliant, is because if you're a competent, capable actor, you can. You can do it all. And you don't need. I always say, if the text is good, you don't need to bring a bunch of party tricks to it. You just need to do it. You know, it's when the text is really, really weak that you start going, okay, what if I did it with a German accent? You know, what if I did it on my head? Because you're trying to think of ways to mix it up, and there's just no cosmetic surgery needed on this very, very wonderful show.
- [35:09]
A
I definitely. I mean, watching watching you do it. I did. It's hard to say. Like, I felt. Felt for Mary more in certain ways. I felt when there was a sadness that came through in a lot that's written into the text. I don't know if I put together when I first time I watched it. And I think watching you, I was like. I mean, like, you're laughing when you're like, this is like a person that is. They're, like, trapped in their circumstance.
- [35:37]
B
Yeah, I guess I just really. I've spent a lot of time thinking about. About women trapped in their circumstances. I've thought a lot about this recently because that was the whole. Excuse me. When I first began first workshop of Pirates, the Penzance musical, I said, I don't want this to be about Ruth, the older woman, skeezing on this younger man. I don't want to contribute to that conversation as a trans woman at all. But it's what Gilbert and Sullivan wrote, you know what I mean? Like, at the time, it was just a kooky old lady who wanted to get it on with a hot young man, you know? But you look at the text now and you're like, you know, that's. That's the truth with a lot of older shows. So we decided, let's strip away all the sexuality and just really play what. And I said, can we just worry about what her circumstances are? She basically says, she's only been a serving woman her whole life, and she's been promised for the last 12 years that she's gonna get married, and then she doesn't have to be a maid anymore. She even sings in her first song, she took up the worst job imaginable. A maid on a pirate ship. She's a maid on a pirate ship, basically, for 12 years. And at the end of that, she's supposed to be able to get married and then put her feet up. Cause that's what happened if you got married, you know? And she's a little long in the tooth. So I don't think she's worried about reproducing. I think she's just worried about getting her vacation. You know what I mean? And when we leaned into that and stripped away all tropey, archetype y sticky humor and just talked about what's true for these two characters, so many of my friends said, oh, I never thought about that. The friends I thought would have been on the watch for anything that had weird undertones. They were like. I talked to them about it and the process and the rehearsals, and they were like, oh, yeah. I didn't get a single hint of that. And, you know, that's also my scene partner, the director, the writer, Rupert Holmes. You know, like, we all worked together really hard to make sure we felt good about the laughs we were gonna get.
- [38:16]
A
How do you think of the. When you're doing Mary's makeup, how do you think about it? Unlike, I think, a lot of stage actors, you have a very varied history of doing makeup. And I imagine it's more. It can be, I imagine, very considered in a lot of ways. How do you think about it?
- [38:32]
B
So my makeup routine, no matter how long it takes, no matter the character, I like to give myself two hours, because I like to really, like, languidly, you know, listen to the playlist I've made for that character, do the makeup, drink my tea, all the things. And with Mary, I just. So I do my, like, base, and then I start adding the sadness. And the sadness is smudgy eyeliner. And I put on my mascara and then blink really hard so it looks like. And a lot of my makeup I put on with my fingers. And then there's like, okay, the eyebrows. I draw on these black eyebrows to match the wig. That's a whole transformation moment, because eyebrows do a lot of work. And then I think when I put on way too much blush, that's when I start really feeling for her. Cause the blush is in my mind to cover up her rosacea. And I put a little. Like, I put a little redness on her nose from her ears as an alcoholic. So it's like she puts on a lot of blush to hide the damage she's done as an alcoholic. And that's where the sadness comes in. And you know what? I was an alcoholic. I'm six years sober from alcohol, and I remember trying to patch things up. It's not fun. It's like a scene from Death Becomes Right.
- [40:15]
A
Do you have a story that captures what it's been like working with Kumail?
- [40:19]
B
Oh.
- [40:20]
A
Who plays Abraham Lincoln in the show? For those I haven't seen, this is.
- [40:23]
B
I don't. Okay. Kumail has never done a play before. Never done a play before. Like, Skip. Broadway debut. He didn't even do, like, a play in high school.
- [40:34]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [40:35]
B
So this is his first ever play. And he is so accomplished and so capable and competent and effective in his work that he just took that work ethic and applied it to something completely new. And he comes off the stage, he comes running over to me. That was a great show. I can't wait to do tomorrow's show. And I have worked with a handful of people like that, and they are the best people to work with. Like, Corbin Bleu is the same way. Corbin Bleu is like, let's do it again. And I mean, this cast, it's just all those people. Like, Michael Urie is as pro as it gets. Jen Harris is just like. Like, she just knows every. Every single tiny gesture. She knows what she's doing because she knows how funny she is, and she treats it like a responsibility. You know what I mean? And then Tony mocked, like, he's been in the show since the beginning, and I just love him. He's just so easy to play off of. Did I miss anyone? No. They're all just the best of the best.
- [41:47]
A
Yeah. I mean, I've known Kumail for a decent amount of time, and he just seemed so happy at the end of the show.
- [41:55]
B
And he was talking at another interview about, since this is his first play he's been so used to. He described it as the somewhat competitive nature on screen, you know, and I've been thinking about this a lot, like, trying to think about what's the biggest difference between film and. And I think I figured it out from what Kumaila shared very generously with us because he's having so much fun. He's telling us lots about what he's finding fun. And so when you're working on camera, you know, everyone's gonna get their shot. So you can totally pull focus in your moments, and it's all about you. And then it's the next person's turn. And then if you're a generous scene partner, you keep acting with that person even though the camera's not on you. Yeah. Now, on stage, there ain't no cameras. There's no insurance that one person's gonna get their camera time. So when someone says share a stage, they mean it like I say it to the people I say it to. It's lovely sharing a stage with you, because when you share a stage with someone, it's about knowing that it's not about being the funniest, best thing on the stage at all moments. It's about pushing your own ego aside and both of you agreeing. We've pushed our ego aside because we're gonna do what's best for the show so that the audience gets everything. The lighting, the sound, the costumes, the wigs, the direction, the stage, the writing. It's about all of that work. So when you put your ego aside and just put yourself in service to all of that, that's where the real good stuff happens. Because when you look into your scene partner's eye, you can tell they're with you having the conversation, not in their head thinking, how am I going one up this person? You know what I mean?
- [44:10]
A
Kumail famously was in the MCU in the movie the Eternals.
- [44:13]
B
What? No, I'm joking. I shouldn't be.
- [44:14]
A
You're a Marvel person. Have you ever thought about what you would like to do if you're in the mcu?
- [44:20]
B
Oh, I have more than enough ideas. Can I manifest something? Sure, yeah.
- [44:25]
A
Please. That's why I thought I'd bring.
- [44:27]
B
Well, I'm sure they already have plans. I'm sure I'm too late, but Marvel now has regained the rights to X Men.
- [44:37]
A
Mm.
- [44:38]
B
I think it would be a really cool idea to have a trans woman be mystique. She is my favorite Marvel character of all time. She is my favorite Marvel character of all time. And I relate to her so much, and I think a lot of trans people do, and we think about how. How nice it would be to be able to just blend in and not have everyone pay attention to us if we don't want. And. And then we also relate to the fact that, like, she's not accepted in her original form, so she has to transition to even walk around people. So I have been. I texted my agent that I was like, I don't know what's going on there, but start. Please start dropping my name. And then the other to manifest is working on Agatha all along. If it has another Season in any context. Joe Locke is such a dear friend of mine. Katherine Hahn is one of my favorite actresses working, and I was like, what if Agatha's spirit went into a hot, young trans woman? And then my hair just gets wild, you know? But really, really, really, if anyone's listening, I would love a chance to interpret Mystique. Truly.
- [46:10]
A
That's a great idea.
- [46:11]
B
And if it's not me, then it should be Harry Niff.
- [46:14]
A
There's two options. I think that's fair. Do you have suggestions of who you would like to see play Mary? After you.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah. Kate McKinnon, Melissa McCarthy. BD Wong. No BD Wong as a Abe. Beedi Wong is Abe. Okay. We're on Mary, though.
- [46:36]
A
Well, you can just dream Castle.
- [46:38]
B
Alana Glazer. Could you. I'm gonna leave it at those three. I also have said Z Way. I think Z Way would be a great Drew Droghi. Drew Droghi could be Mary or Louise. You know what I mean?
- [46:58]
A
Yeah.
- [46:58]
B
Imagine Drew Droege as Louise. Pretty brilliant, right? But, yeah, I also like casting Abe.
- [47:07]
A
It is a thing, now that I've seen Kumail do it, that I do think it'd be useful for a lot of people if they got that experience. I feel like there's a lot of straight actors who I think would benefit from that.
- [47:17]
B
I think Kumail's the proof. I mean, that kid is giddy at work. He's like, I have never seen an actor run from their dressing room so fast every time I come off stage. And I hope he doesn't listen, because I don't want him to adapt anything. You know what sucks is when you tell someone something you love about them, and then they stop doing it. And I can't help it. I'm like, the ADHD is so strong. Like, I start, like, getting ready for it, and then they're like, what the hell's happening? You know, Like, I'm like, you're not doing your thing that I notice you do every day. And I come in and I wait in the spot to see you do this thing. And then they're like, what? And then it never happens again.
- [48:05]
A
I'll tell Kumail, don't listen to this episode. No, it will ruin your show. And it'll. He'll definitely watch.
- [48:12]
B
I don't know if that's ADHD or just.
- [48:14]
A
It's something.
- [48:15]
B
It's something.
- [48:19]
A
When we. When we. When I first interviewed, we talked about. About Snatch Game, a drag race challenge that you are a master of. And I want to talk about Another comedy challenge, as this is a comedy podcast, which is the Roast, which is, again, another challenge you're a master of. Before we go to the roast, when we spoke, it was right after you won All Stars, and it had a sense that people would like your duty. Garland a lot. But I feel like in the year since, it is like, a legend that people can't. What has it been like to you to see the sort of, like, legacy of that performance?
- [48:55]
B
I guess. I don't know. Again, there's so much story in Judy Garland, and again, it's like that level of celebrity, plus the things that the industry does to women, plus the time period, plus her alcohol problem, plus the way men treated her. You know what I mean? Like, there's a reason why queer people relate to her so much, because it's like she had all these superpowers, and it still didn't stop the world from crushing her, you know, but she never stopped.
- [49:38]
A
So many ways people. Your Judy re brought up the feelings people have.
- [49:43]
B
I think so, Mary and I've always felt like what makes a queer icon is equal parts fabulousness and tragedy. Cause we turn our tragedy into fabulousness, you know, like, that's what drag is. It's like so many drag queens are reclaiming. I mean, my friend Peach is Christ. I think it's obvious that she's working through something. You know, she's trolling the Catholic Church. She's made that her drag, you know, and that's why drag is. It's like, it's hard to describe drag because, like I said, every actor's doing it when they create a character. But to choose to be a drag performer is to choose to comment on gender, you know, to really pick it apart, whether you are trying to show how gorgeous and glamorous you can look and show that it's all an illusion. That's what I kind of love about the glamour queens that are like, dudes out of drag. You know what I mean? You know the ones. And it's like, they are the most gorgeous woman you see on the television, and then they take the makeup off, and that's a dude. You know, like, that's a. That's. Yeah, it's all an illusion. And then you have the drag performers who are actively. Like, their drag is a statement of. Of stop adhering to gender norms. And it's like, I want everyone to just dress the way they want to dress. And I talk to straight men, and I've been just studying straight men for a while now, trying to make sense of them. And it's like they. Their spectrum of expression is this big. They might have all the privilege, but when I talk to straight men about, like, I mean, just think of everything they don't do because they're afraid to be called gay. Like, this is their spectrum. And I said this for a while. The people who have the most privilege and yet are so, so focused on us. It's because they can see this is our spectrum of expression. And they are jealous as fuck. They are jealous that the underlings have found a way to be happy without money.
- [52:32]
A
Did you do much? You just, like, sometimes you get on.
- [52:36]
B
One gal Gadot in that Snow White remake. You know what I mean? I didn't even see the movie. Sorry. I'm laughing at that.
- [52:45]
A
Did you do much roasting before Drag Race? And how did you then prepare for season five?
- [52:50]
B
Well, actually, no. Season five, I had never done any roasting because my comedy was always about making fun of myself. What a big, dumb slut I am. What a drunk, dumb slut I am. What a stoned, idiotic slut. I am sure. And that's just always been brand of humor because I've never felt good about attacking people. In grade school, I bullied someone once, and my grandma caught me and said she was so disappointed in her sweet little sweet pea. And I just kind of never wanted to do that again. Not saying that I don't have choice words for people when it's necessary. However, Drag Race was my first roast, and then I went on the Haters Roast tour three years, I think, consecutively. And I got really good at roasting. And what I love about roasting is, when done well, it brings you closer to the person. Some of those girls I've become so close with because we have already said all the worst things we could possibly say to each other, and we know we still like each other. Oh, you do notice those annoying things about me, but you're still my friend. Cool. That's nice to know. You know what I mean?
- [54:15]
A
I always say a roast is a way of telling the person you see them.
- [54:18]
B
Yeah.
- [54:19]
A
Which is a very intimate.
- [54:20]
B
That is a really good way to say it. And, I mean, I love laughing at myself, because then if I've laughed at myself, then I'm just so unimpressed with things people have to say about me. You know, like when people say, you're ugly, I'm like. And the punchline is, you know what I mean? And the only thing I don't like about roasts is the people who don't know how to do them well, and they think they know what they're gonna do, and they think, this is gonna kill. I'm just gonna really actually be mean to this person. And it's like, you missed. You understand the assignment. And that's true for the Drag Race contestants. It's true for comedians. And I also am just kind of like, I'm so bored with comedy that punches down. Like, in this moment, if you're choosing to punch down, who the hell read the room?
- [55:20]
A
Yeah.
- [55:21]
B
There's, like. There's such obvious material. Why. Why would you choose the disenfranchised? And that goes for men making fun of women's bodies, and that goes for thin people making fun of large people. And that goes all of it. It's like, why would you punch down when the Batman villains are in control?
- [55:45]
A
And I think that. I mean, I think that distinction. Because I think of people thinking roasts are that. I think that's probably when people do badly at roast, they think, this is my opportunity to punch down.
- [55:54]
B
Well, I have seen it. I have sat there and silently watched a person bomb and just thought, why didn't you run this by any. Truly?
- [56:04]
A
I think that a lot or on this show? Both.
- [56:09]
B
Yes.
- [56:13]
A
Do you remember, in general, do you remember any joke about you from all the years that sticks with you that you like or don't like?
- [56:20]
B
I do. I have. I'm sure I do. But my brain. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh.
- [56:29]
A
It's okay.
- [56:30]
B
I'm sure it'll come to me later. That's fine.
- [56:33]
A
Do you remember. Speaking of remember, do you remember filming that episode, the Roast episode in season five? Do you remember anything from that?
- [56:40]
B
Yeah, the season five and the all Stars.
- [56:44]
A
What do you remember from season five?
- [56:45]
B
The season five roast. I was nervous until they started doing their jokes for each other, and I was like, I don't have to be nervous, but I was kind of like. I knew then that I wanted to find that fine line where you are teasing the person, but nothing that's like, why would you tease the person about that? Like, you know, that's like. And also like, why. Why do you think that's funny? You know, I really just focused on what I find funny about the person. And I also threw in some old chestnuts, you know, that dip your dick in ranch dressing. Did that make. Oh, I don't think that made the. Never mind.
- [57:36]
A
It's the joke.
- [57:38]
B
No, no, you don't get to hear that. It's an old, old chestnut in the drag bars. Okay, so you pick a trashy city nearby, right? And you say, anyone from trashy city here? We might say new. Anyone from Rochester. Anyway, you say, anyone from blah, blah, blah, and someone screams and you go, God, the girls there are so easy. If you want them to go down on you, you just dip your dick in ranch dressing. And then I would say, but I'm from the Pacific Northwest, so that doesn't work on me. You have to use organ instead. And then BenDeLaCreme hates that joke. Cause she's like, why would you put something so coarse and pumicey on your dick? And I'm like, it's hypothetical.
- [58:44]
A
I think also that helps the joke because it is disgusting. It makes it more visceral. The feeling of it.
- [58:51]
B
I love delivering just filthy jokes as dryly as possible because that's how my mom taught me. To me.
- [59:03]
A
The other thing from Episode Season five was, is the episode where Alyssa thought she was very good at it. And it was if you.
- [59:09]
B
That's who I'm talking about.
- [59:09]
A
Got it.
- [59:12]
B
I love Alyssa. She's. She was the first one. She told us a billion times, I don't do comedy. I don't do splits. I do do splits. No, I do do splits. No, I don't do acting. I don't do singing. But if I have to lip sync myself to the top.
- [59:42]
A
How do you then approach the All Stars roast? Cause at this point, you've been roasting for years. Also, it's All Stars. You knew you were going to do a rose. How is that approach? Approach? How did you think of it? How did you.
- [59:56]
B
Well, the pressure there, of course, is, you know, like, if you're known for something, you're scared of it up. But then if you get so scared of fucking it up, you fuck it up. So I had to kind of just trust myself. I worked really hard on those jokes, too. And I stayed up way too late working on jokes. And then that day, I broke one of my fake teeth, and it was like a whole thing. But I. It was on set, we were there, and. And it was like, as they were introducing, it was all on my mind. That actually was better because I was thinking about that instead of like, I hope I do best.
- [60:40]
A
Yeah.
- [60:42]
B
But, you know, it's about trusting yourself. I like to say, if you make it doing something, why would you say, start fucking with what got you there, you know? And I. I like. I. I have like eight analogies for this. But lately I've been saying, if you hire me for my world famous pizza sauce, don't try to fuck with the recipe. Like, if. If my pizza sauce is world famous, why would you try to add oregano? You know what I mean? Like, don't come into my kitchen and try to fuck with myself sauce.
- [61:22]
A
When we talked last time, you mentioned about you got help in a variety of ways. Once the allstar season and Dela helped a lot. I was wondering if you could tell a story that captures what it's like working with Dela.
- [61:37]
B
Okay, so I'm a virgo and Dela's a Virgo Libra Cusp. So it means we are both perfectionists, but I have my limits, you know? Like, I have a point where I'm like, it's perfect enough. And then Dala goes, but it could be perfect, perfecter. You know, I'm like, but it's perfect. And she goes, but wouldn't it be perfecter if it was like this? And so nothing happens between us that doesn't require much conversation because we care so much about utilizing every opportunity to just. Like I said, what's the funniest thing I can say to Katy Perry? Like, we just wanna. We just wanna figure out what's the best thing to do for the moment, and we take that seriously, and we do it through comedy. Because comedy is one of the best ways to express an idea. I think music and comedy, like, you don't want to express an idea by yelling because people listen like this, you know, like, you don't want to panic people unless that's your goal.
- [62:59]
A
Can you talk about the development of the snorting coke off Evie's dick joke, which I believe you did about Trixie during the haters era?
- [63:10]
B
Yeah, I. I can't believe you're bringing that up. What. What is what? I don't know.
- [63:15]
A
Why?
- [63:16]
B
What. What do you want to know?
- [63:18]
A
No, what do you want to say? And then I'll ask you what I want to know.
- [63:22]
B
What I want to say is that joke was derived from a Sarah Silverman joke that receded into my brain.
- [63:31]
A
Oh, interesting.
- [63:32]
B
And. And late later, it was like when filming happened and was done and everything was in the can, I was, like, repeating the joke to someone and, like, that person and I at the same time look at each other. And I was, like, licking jelly off my Catholic boyfriend's penis. And then I just started praying, please, please don't use that, Jo. And it's like every comedian's worst nightmare, you know, Like, I don't want to be known for ripping someone off. And anyway, that happened.
- [64:17]
A
And, well, I. I'll say I was prepared to have a conversation where you knew it was Sarah's joke and that. And I was like, for example, Gottmik used Nikki Glaser's joke when Gottmik was on All Stars.
- [64:31]
B
Yeah.
- [64:31]
A
And people were mad at Gottmik, and Gottman was like, what do you think? I wrote my own jokes. Like, we're like, drag is an art of creation. And I spoke to Nikki about it, and she's like, I think it's fine. She's like, I don't know why I would be mad about it.
- [64:45]
B
Well, here's the thing is, I've had that conversation with myself, and I guess that's why I just told you the God honest truth, because I'd rather just get it out than continue to battle with myself over it. That's exactly what happened. And I think other comedians have had this happen before, too. You watch something when you're 20 years old and then you're almost 40 and you forget where you got that joke. You know, and drag is such an imitation art form that early in my career, yeah. I was totally just like, oh, that's a funny joke. I bet if I twist it this way, I could make it my own. And I don't do that anymore because I have plenty of ideas on my own. Right. Like, but here's the thing is, like, I think what Gottmik is kind of like, talking about is comedy is not something you can do in, like, an allotted time.
- [65:45]
A
Yeah.
- [65:46]
B
You know, it's a hard thing. It's a competitive. It's a competition. And there are confinements and stakes, you know, so you're not in a normal circumstance and you're not with Google to, like, double check if you've got. You know, like, if I had Google, I could have ran everything and made sure it wasn't. Do you know how many times I'm writing with Dela and I come up with something funny, and then the next day I go, we gotta cut that joke. And she goes, why? And I was like, it's just basically something they say in Futurama. And I've watched the episode so many times since I was 20 years old that it's just part of my brain mush, you know? And so that happens sometimes. But the big thing is, the second you noticed you did it, do you cut the joke or not?
- [66:42]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [66:43]
B
And Dale and I always cut the joke because as soon as we realize it's not originally ours, we're like, we're way more interested in putting out something that's originally Ours not just for the backlash, not just for or the, like, the reputation. But that's the kind. I mean, like, I made a decision a long time ago. The kind of artist I wanted to be and everything these days is just me trying to stay true to that.
- [67:08]
A
Yeah. I mean, I'll say. Ra' Jah also does a Sarah Silverman joke on that same episode.
- [67:12]
B
Did she get shit for it?
- [67:14]
A
I don't think people. I think so. Not as much as you did. Partly because RuPaul doesn't shut up about that joke.
- [67:19]
B
I know. And. And you don't understand the shame that I have felt every time that joke gets retweeted. I'm like.
- [67:31]
A
My God, I brought it up to absolve you. I think it's.
- [67:35]
B
Well, you know, every time I bring this up with a comedian, they're like, oh, my God, so what? You know, they're like. Do you know how many comedians I watch just get on stage and rip someone off and don't think a thing about it? At least I still care. That's how I tell it. Me tells. I tell myself, at the end of the day, at least I still fucking care.
- [67:54]
A
Yeah. And I also think roasts are a joke, a medium where it's often reiterating or tilting on existing form.
- [68:02]
B
Have you ever watched Lisa Lampanelli rip off Lisa Lampanelli?
- [68:05]
A
Yes, I have, many a time. Well, do you have a favorite joke from. Since that was the one they really highlighted as they said. RuPaul brings it up constantly. Do you have a favorite joke or roast joke from any of your roast jokes?
- [68:21]
B
Yes, my favorite joke, and I came up with it myself.
- [68:26]
A
I really hope I never. I'm nervous that I will be looking. Oh, wait, no, that's.
- [68:30]
B
No. Was the one about Trinity. She's very considerate. When she broke up with her last boyfriend, she said, let's just be cousins. That's my favorite joke from that roast.
- [68:43]
A
Yes, that's. I thought that was. I mean, I think the joke, the Evie joke is good. It just is a Sarah Silverman joke.
- [68:51]
B
Right.
- [68:51]
A
And it was good with Sarah Sylvan.
- [68:52]
B
And, you know, like, I built upon it. At least I didn't just say her joke. Like, at least I didn't just say, so I was licking jelly off of Yvie Oddly's giant dick. No, I morphed it. I found a way. And do you know why? Because 20 years ago, I. I morphed it, and I forgot that's what I did. Like I said, these things become part of the brain mush yeah, you.
- [69:17]
A
As I said, there's video of the haters roast where you do that joke about Trixie.
- [69:21]
B
Yeah. Cause I'm Lisa Lampenelli, and I ripped myself off because I was gonna say, part of writing a roast is you gotta pepper in the ones, you know, like, okay, this joke is risky, so I have to put in a joke I know won't bomb.
- [69:36]
A
Yeah.
- [69:36]
B
Comedy's a science. The people who are like, you told that joke before. I'm like, oh, my God, did Beyonce sing that song before? Like, part of it is you come to hear the hits.
- [69:49]
A
Yeah.
- [69:50]
B
Like, I'm not gonna apologize for giving you the goddamn line. You asked me to scream in the stage door. I just said it on stage for you in a new way, in a much funnier way than just saying it at you. You know what I mean? That's like. That's why I haven't. Eventually I realized it's not just like the whole. Don't read the comments. It's like, it's not just about protecting your ego, which. Or your heart. Right. Like, I mean, sometimes they go for your heart. And it's not just about protecting that. It's also like, I'm sorry, comedy's a science. Have you. When you do anything near what I've done, and that's not a have you been to space? Kind of thing. It's like a comedy. Comedy requires commitment and the people who think that you can just absorb it through the tv and suddenly you know everything about comedy. It's like, no, that's not fair. I've been Studying this since 5 years old in my traumatic family, you know, and one of my favorite teachers at school said, if you want to be funny, start by having alcoholic parents. I'm like, yeah, that's where a lot of my comedy. It's where my instinct for comedy comes from, is because I constantly was trying to look at the funny bits and not the tragic bits.
- [71:21]
A
Yeah. So when I last saw you, it was after a performance of Chicago, and also meeting you was a young kid who was an aspiring drag queen or something. I believe the story that they said was they had been brushing their hair all day. The wig they brought that aren't. Which they brought. And that is also part of the nature of the celebrity that you have, the career that you have, as well as these dick jokes. How do you feel about it? What's it like meeting people in that situation?
- [71:54]
B
Well, first of all, I have to say I've seen that kid multiple times since then, and that kid is Just like that kid is just a beautiful, beautiful individual, and that kid's parent are really doing it right. And so it's really nice to get to once a year, see that kid after my show, you know, and say hi and check in on them. But, you know, it's this. I. Like I said, the best work comes when you push your ego and put yourself in service to something. And as a queer artist, in a time when representation matters so much, I mean, it always has, but right now, they're actively trying to snuff out this representation. So representation is under attack. But that only should affirm how important it is, because when you see other people's stories, you can't hate them as much. And when you see yourself on tv, you can't hate yourself as much. And so I just think about the fact that me showing up and doing my job well is having an impact that I don't even have to be aware, but I know it's happening. So the best way to do my job well is push my ego aside and serve the story of the show and serve the production. And by doing that, I'm serving my community and I'm doing all of it in my dream job, which I like. That makes it so that I don't take a moment of this for granted. When people ask, how were you able to go from public pirate to oh, Mary in eight days? And I'm like, I really didn't think about it. All I knew is I was doing that show and I had to do this show and we were going to figure it out. And that's been my whole career. Like, I. Being on stage is my happy place. And I couldn't mean that more because it's like I have worked so hard at learning the skills that I have that helped me be who I am on stage, whether I'm playing myself or playing someone else's character. I've worked really, really hard at that so that I can have confidence in myself knowing that when I step out on stage, I'm going to know exactly what I need to do, even if something goes wrong. And that for that two hours, the world makes sense to me. And then I step off stage and the world goes back to being this shit show. You know what I mean?
- [75:06]
A
But sometimes Katy Perry is there.
- [75:09]
B
I still am processing that, Jesse.
- [75:12]
A
That's why I asked. Now it's time for the final segment of the show. It's a laughing round. It's like a lightning round, but comedy is a laughing round.
- [75:18]
B
Yeah.
- [75:19]
A
Do your favorite joke.
- [75:19]
B
Joke yeah. What did one gay frog say to the other gay frog?
- [75:26]
A
What?
- [75:26]
B
Rim it. Rim it. Oh, okay, good.
- [75:30]
A
That's great. A.
- [75:33]
B
That's hilarious.
- [75:34]
A
That. That is a play on words. No, it's great.
- [75:38]
B
Oh, wait, do you. I have one more. Sorry.
- [75:40]
A
Sure. Please.
- [75:41]
B
Why don't anarchists drink? Oh, why do anarchy anarchists only drink herbal tea?
- [75:49]
A
Why?
- [75:49]
B
Because proper tea is theft. So I have a dumb one and a smart one.
- [75:55]
A
Yeah. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?
- [76:00]
B
Yes. Joan Rivers and I used to share the Laurie Beachman. And we would pass each other like ships in the night. And she was very vocal about the fact that the dressing room where we met people post show was a little tiny green hallway to the kitchen. And it was green and bright green at that. And she had hated it for years and had complained about it for years. I come in, I'm there about two weeks. I say, this is really unflattering. And they painted it pink. And Joan Rivers. Oh, you're the drag queen who got the room painted. Oh, I've been working here for years. She doesn't like the color. It's painted immediately. Whatever. I'm going sailing with my grandkids. It was like. And then she switches into just, you know, backstage.
- [77:04]
A
What's the. What is the worst place you ever did drive in?
- [77:11]
B
I'll keep it quick. There was this. There was this nightclub. Can't remember the name. It was like a fun house of a drag club. It was like going down the rabbit hole. It was in Mobile, Alabama. My stage was a bunch of speakers lined up against each other. There was no stage. It was just a bunch of very large speakers in an L shape against the wall. And that's what you performed on. The conditions the drag queens were getting ready under were insane. The room was just so hot. And I asked for. I was like, what do you do for air conditioning or fans? And someone said. My friend just reminded me this. Someone said, turn on the AC for jinx. And a girl pointed a leaf blower at me, my face and turned it on. But then later in life, I met a friend who said that they made the pilgrimage from their tiny town to Mobile, Alabama, to see that show. And it was one of the best nights of their life, and it motivated them to move to a gayer place so that they could be queer. So there you go. Even the worst gig has an impact.
- [78:31]
A
Do you have a opinion about something that people feel is comedy that you think that's not comedy.
- [78:38]
B
Hmm.
- [78:41]
A
In passive.
- [78:44]
B
People seem to think it's funny that their kids take up the whole sidewalk. They're like, oh, oh, my dog on my leash. Or the dog, you know, the tiniest dog on the longest leash. And they're like, oh, ha ha ha ha, Pe. Sorry. Now I'm going to help share the sidewalk. But like, oh, while you're walking through a puddle in the street. Peanuts. So silly. I didn't consent to you having kids. Why do I have to deal with them?
- [79:20]
A
What is the best time you ever bombed?
- [79:27]
B
Queens. Queens. I wasn't even there to perform. I was just there to step on the mic, wish everyone a happy pride, remind them that I had a show. But I'm like, surely the kids want me to sing a number, you know, like. And everyone stressed how much I did not need to perform. I was just there to say hi. If I wanted to make a quick joke, I get up there, they say, and now jinkx Monsoon. And everyone's screaming and clapping. And I start singing the King of Queens themes under the Queen's burrow bridge. My eyes are getting weary My back is getting tight don't ask why I know. Theme song. Hypnis are singing it, and the audience is dead silent. Dead silent. No, not a jackal. I didn't stop until I finished. I sang the whole song, and then a car backfired and I ducked because I thought someone shot. And I was like, I don't think we sold any tickets.
- [81:08]
A
What is a joke that you've tried? You tried multiple times. The audience didn't like it for whatever reason, but you'll go to your grave being like, I was right. They were wrong. This is funny.
- [81:18]
B
Yeah. I've written this joke into multiple shows with Major in Provincetown that it's become part of our lore. So every year in Provincetown, our show would be something about, you know, my views on a topic. You know, that's a lot of the cabaret shows out there. So one year it was my views on the. The first Trump election, and one year it was my sex life. And anyway, so we're doing. We're doing these shows six years in a row. Six years in a. I write a joke in saying I wanted to do a show that was an introspective. An introspective look at the life and works of John Paul Sartre and how they applied to today. But Major says we have to please the crowds, and no one ever laughs. And I'm like. And he and I say it in unison. And then one year me in a video said it in unison because she was like, please don't bring up doing an introspective look at John Paul Sartre, his life and his work and its impact on today. And I just. No one ever laughs. Is it the name Sartre? There's no K sounds.
- [82:42]
A
Thank you so much.
- [82:42]
B
Of course.
- [82:46]
A
That'S it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York Magazine. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com Pod be back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.