John Early’s “After the Gold Rush”

Summary

Good One: A Podcast About Jokes
Episode: John Early’s “After the Gold Rush”
Release Date: May 28, 2024
Host: Jesse David Fox

---

Introduction

In this episode of Good One: A Podcast About Jokes, Vulture's Senior Editor, Jesse David Fox, welcomes comedian John Early to delve deep into one of John’s most ambitious and thought-provoking bits from his HBO special, “After the Gold Rush.” The episode not only showcases John performing his extensive joke but also provides an insightful breakdown of its creation, themes, and the emotional nuances embedded within.

---

Joke Performance: “After the Gold Rush”

John Early presents his 20-minute-long bit, “After the Gold Rush,” blending stand-up comedy with musical performances in the style of a 1970s rock documentary. The special is shot to mimic the gritty, authentic feel of classics like The Last Waltz or Gimme Shelter, integrating layers of performance with his band, the Lemon Squares.

Notable Performance Quotes:

• John Early (02:12): "What the fuck happened to dance? We used to have Bob Fosse, you know, his choreography was so kinky and mysterious and he was a household name."
• John Early (10:02): "I hate the word moist."
• John Early (35:48): "We lean on hyperbole to compensate for the utter emptiness of being alive right now."
• John Early (72:29): "Are we really a bunch of hot messes, or do they just need us to be that way?"

---

Breakdown and Discussion

After the performance, Jesse engages John in a comprehensive discussion about the intricate elements of his bit.

Integration of Music and Stand-Up

John explains his decision to fuse stand-up with music, aiming to capture the "sweatiness" and live essence of his performances. Influenced by his emotional journey, particularly a breakup, John sought to infuse his comedy with genuine emotion rather than mere observational humor.

• John Early (13:35): "I was trying to talk about the education system, you know?"
• John Early (17:30): "I have always done music in my longer form live shows, and it was never meant to be filmed and it was never meant to be a kind of cohesive show."

Themes of Generational Behavior and Language

A significant portion of John’s bit critiques modern language, especially millennial slang, and its performative nature. He argues that hyperbole has become a tool to mask the "utter emptiness" of contemporary life.

• John Early (08:00): "We should be tried at the Hague. The hyperbole alone."
• John Early (43:03): "I'm trying to look out at people and be like, hello, do you guys feel this, too?"

Cultural Critique and Advertising

John dissect his observations on advertising strategies, specifically referencing Postmates campaigns that use millennial-centric language. He highlights how such messaging fosters a sense of alienation and superficiality.

• John Early (05:29): "Are we like that? Are we like that? I mean, are we really just a bunch of, like, hot mess?"

Emotional Sincerity vs. Performative Irony

John discusses his journey towards embracing sincerity in his comedy, moving away from the detached, ironic persona often associated with modern stand-up. This shift allows him to connect more deeply with his audience.

• John Early (33:56): "This really is connected to this, like, because cancer thing."
• John Early (44:45): "You're stuck in that boiling water."

Influences and Artistic Evolution

Drawing inspiration from legends like Bob Fosse and contemporary figures like Sandra Bernhardt, John reflects on his artistic evolution. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and emotional depth in his work.

• John Early (27:02): "I always thought that was so cool. And it wasn't."
• John Early (33:56): "It's like that used to be the point of language and metaphor and poetry is like to capture the way human beings feel in ways that like, pedestrian people can't."

---

Insights and Conclusions

John Early's “After the Gold Rush” serves as a multifaceted exploration of modern life's linguistic and emotional landscape. By intertwining stand-up with music, John not only entertains but also provokes thought about the performative aspects of communication and the inherent emptiness perceived in contemporary societal constructs.

Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity in Performance: John emphasizes the need for genuine emotional expression in comedy, moving beyond mere satire or irony.
• Critique of Modern Language: His critique of millennial slang and advertising highlights how language can both reflect and perpetuate societal issues.
• Artistic Integration: The fusion of music and stand-up exemplifies a holistic approach to comedy, allowing for deeper emotional resonance.

Notable Quotes from Discussion:

• John Early (90:12): "I'm trying to remind them I'm not making fun of them. I'm trying to say, like, this is."
• John Early (95:14): "I have such respect for Molly Bass and Alison Roman. I cook their shit all the fucking time."
• Jesse David Fox (93:51): "Imagine you're a person who says they hated the word moist. This is the allegory of the cave, right?"

---

Conclusion

This episode of Good One offers listeners an in-depth look into John Early's creative process and the profound themes he tackles in his comedy. By blending performance art with stand-up, John challenges traditional comedic boundaries, inviting audiences to reflect on the deeper meanings behind everyday language and societal behaviors. His honest and emotionally charged approach not only redefines his comedic style but also enriches the listener's understanding of humor as a vessel for meaningful commentary.

---

Listen to the full episode on Max and follow John Early on social media to explore more of his unique comedic journeys.

Transcript

[Jesse David Fox]

Hello and welcome to Good One, a podcast about jokes. I'm your host, Jesse David Fox. Each episode, the guest plays a clip of one of their jokes and discusses how and why they came up with it. This week's guest is John Early. But first, an update. Go. Ron will be returning to a seasons model after a few years with a sort of regular release schedule. We'll be going back to a block of time the show is on and then the block of time the show is not on. And this just, we felt, made the most sense for the show and its production. This means we'll be winding down this season in a few weeks. The good news is, until then, we'll be going weekly with some really exciting, fun, good episodes like this episode. John early was on the show's first season talking about his episode of Netflix's Characters. It was a really good, fun, nice time. Then last June, he released his first stand up special, now more than ever on hbo. And ever since, there's just one bit from it that I just couldn't stop thinking about. I was like, I have so many questions about this. And then I remembered, oh, I have a podcast specifically to talk to comedians about bits I liked and found funny and moving. So here we are. I was taken by the ambition of this joke to really capture how it feels to be part of this generation at this given moment. And just the tonal ranges of the piece. It is actually over 20 minutes long. So we're just going to play the back half and I'll let the joke speak for itself. But what you should know about the special is that it's shot in the style of a 1970s rock document and it mixes John doing standup with him performing songs with his band, the Lemon Squares. In the interview, he'll reference Dominique and Princess. They are two of the backup singers. And also there are backstage sketches of John in the band. There are all these layers, but when it gets to the part I'm about to play, it all sort of clears away. You'll see what I'm talking about. So here is John Early.

[John Early]

What the fuck happened to dance? We used to have Bob Fosse, you know, his choreography was so kinky and mysterious and he was a household name. He was on talk shows. A choreographer in America was on talk shows. That can't happen anymore. What's happening? I feel like the only remaining form of dance, it's the pitch choreography on Shark Tank. It's sharks. I have three words that you want in M and A, and this got.

[Dominique]

To my right Hand.

[John Early]

Try one, Try one. Try. Try one. Try one, Try one, try one. I was in a coffee shop recently, and I saw what I hesitate to describe as a piece of art. It was an illustration of Rick Moranis, and he was holding a piece of pepperoni pizza, and that was framed. And I thought, is that all there is? You know, like when we're loading up the time capsule for future inhabitants of Planet E, is this what the millennials shall put forth? You know? Or will it be. Will it be an illustration of a taco? Because I'm sure still seeing a lot of that still. Or will it be a little dancing cheeseburger? Or will it be a video of one of the chefs from the hallowed halls of Bon Appetit making a lemony, garlicky, crispity, crunchity, jammy Cacio e pepe? Cacio e pepe. Or will it be an infographic, you know, with. With a kind of cloudy, rainbow gradient background that talks about why your allyship is actually performative? Calling all allies performative.

[Dominique]

Performative.

[Princess]

Performative.

[John Early]

Where are my allies at? That was performative.

[Princess]

What are we doing?

[John Early]

Or will it be one of our many contributions as a generation to the world of advertising. I don't know if you guys remember this Postmates campaign. It was, like, three, maybe four years ago. Had a very kind of millennial tone, millennial affect. Like, kind of like a. No.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know.

[John Early]

There was one that was like. There was one that was like, don't let breakfast bully you into putting your pan. We get it, Postmates. And then, same campaign, there was one that was like, when you want omakase, butt your bras off. We get it, housemates. And then there was one, and I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. It was in the same campaign. I was driving down highways. It was on giant billboards. Like, it was, by the way, mass shootings everywhere. On skyscrapers, giant skyscrapers painted on huge buildings. It literally said, hate people. We get it, Postmates. Are we like that? Are we like that? I mean, are we really just a bunch of, like, hot mess? Look, I'm such a mess. I'm such a. I ordered cupcakes again. I took a nap by accident.

[Dominique]

Oops. Oops. I'm all tangled up in the corset.

[John Early]

Are we really a bunch of hot messes, or do they just need us to be that way? Our contributions to language as a generation. We should be tried at the Hague. The hyperbole alone. I mean, by the way, I just said it. We should be tried at the Hague. I'm talking about myself here too, y'all. But I really do feel like we lean a lot on hyperbole as a generation. Like, you know something like, you know, did you see tar? My jaw was on the floor. I had to hire a task rabbit to come pick it. I really feel like we lean on hyperbole to compensate for the utter emptiness of being alive right now. It's not our fault. It's not our fault. The other slang, like, you know, like, all the failings, all the things. All the things. All the fails, all the, um. I'll have all the things. I want grant money. I want grant money to trace the origins of all the things. And I don't think you guys are gonna be happy with what I find out.

[Princess]

Human.

[John Early]

Such an amazing human. One of my favorite humans. Off garbage person. Dumpster fire. Dick biscuit. I mean, I can. I can barely say it. I can barely say it. I didn't know I needed. I didn't like. This is the collaboration. I didn't. Now I need it.

[Jesse David Fox]

I did it.

[John Early]

Now I need it. I hate the word moisture.

[Princess]

Moist.

[John Early]

Yeah, I can barely say it. Moist. I hate the word moist. An entire generation of people pretending to hate the word moist. We have to get serious, you guys. We have to get serious before it's too late. And our gravestones are like. Because Cancer.

[Dominique]

There were Pleasants singing and drummers drumming and the Archers split the tree There was a fanfare blowing to the sun that was floating on the breeze Looking Mother Nature on the run in the 21st century look at Mother Nature on the run in the 21st century.

[Princess]

I.

[Dominique]

Was lying in a burnt out basement with the full moon in my eye I was hoping for a replacement when the sun burst through the sky There was a band playing in my head and I felt like getting high.

[Princess]

I.

[Dominique]

Was thinking about what a friend had said I was hoping it was a lie Thinking about what a friend had said I was hoping it was a.

[Jesse David Fox]

Lie.

[Dominique]

Well, I dreamed I saw the silver spaceship Lying in the yellow haze of the sun There were children crying and colors flying all around the chosen ones all in a dream Dream all in a dream the loading had begun Flying Mother Nature's silver seed To a new home in the sun Flying Mother Nature silver sea To a new home.

[Jesse David Fox]

I am here with John Early. Thank you for being here, Jesse.

[Princess]

Thank you for having me. I've really not gotten to talk about this very specific thing as much as I would have liked to.

[Jesse David Fox]

So let's start. You know, all the other songs, especially I Believe I've seen you perform before, so this was a surprise in so many ways. But let's start was the very, very first inkling that you were like, I want to do something in the area of this. Like, before you decided what to do, what were you like, even being like, oh, what if something like this existed?

[Princess]

Well, I have always done music in my, like, longer form live shows, and it was never meant to be filmed and it was never meant to be a kind of cohesive show. Like I would say when I started doing it, it was more just kind of like, I'm gonna do a kind of boozy, dancey, almost variety show. Like, and they would go for inappropriately long amounts of time, but, you know, and then there was this thing started to emerge like a few years later, I think, or at least came over to this side of the world of like the kind of pressure for comedians to present a kind of coherent hour. And not in the old sense of like just an hour of really good kind of crystal jokes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Coherent in terms of like, oh, they have a perspective. But now coherent in terms of this is a piece.

[Princess]

Yeah, like a more kind of theatrical, like almost like a play, like hours of comedy became more like one man, one woman, one person shows. And I. I never really had any intention of doing that. In fact, once the opportunity to do a special came around, I thought, okay, well, I will try to capture the very thing that I value about this experience is the liveness of it and like the kind of sweatiness of it. And I was very, very scared about filming it and losing that feeling. But anyway, so I. So I. The songs that I cleared for this special were Oops, oh My by Tweet, overprotected by Britney Spears, I Feel Loved by Donna Summer. And then the last slot I was gonna do Take a Bow by Madonna, because I just love to sing it. And it's like. And there needs to be a kind of something a little more moody and slow. And so there was always this slot of like the let's take it down a little bit, you know, but that was still. That was when I was kind of maybe being a little sheepish about what I actually wanted to say, you know, and it was more. I was being a little more self effacing in the. In the development of the special. I was a little kind of embarrassed by any sort of themes that seemed to be organically arising, but they just did keep bubbling up to the surface. I would say. It was like in December, about a couple months before we filmed it, where I Was listening once again, as I've done several times in my life, to Trio, the. An album that I grew up on, played in our minivan, like, which is Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris. And their second album, second and final album they released as a trio, featured this cover of after the Gold Rush. And I don't know, I was just really getting into it. And I just thought, especially because we had already decided that the only way for me to kind of capture the liveness of the live performances was to shoot it like a rock doc. Like a gritty 70s rock doc. Like the Last Waltz or Gimme Shelter. And that was. So once that aesthetic was chosen, and I was obviously excited by, like, the contrast of, like, doing a 70s rock doc but singing Britney Spears.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

You know, that was what was exciting about the whole venture. So I. But. But I think because I was just watching those kinds of movies and seeing, like, music that wasn't pop and R and B be performed live. It just was. And I also was like, at this point in my life going, like, having a little bit Beatlemania. Like, I was going through a breakup. And so I watched Get Back, got it. Got it in a very, like, emotionally intense way. And. And so, I don't know, I was like. I was kind of. Finally. I guess I was in some ways too. I was kind of like. I always sing, like, girl pop or like R B or, like, disco. Like, and I was kind of letting myself be a white boy a little bit. You know what I mean? Like, which, like, I was kind of like, oh. Like, literally just vocally instead of trying to imitate these, like, far superior singers, either because they're actually better singers or because of, like, pop production that processes your voice in crazy ways. Like, I don't have, like. I don't think I have a kind of ordinary voice, you know, but for some reason, I feel compelled to sing. And so I was like. I don't know, I was just like, watching the Beatles sing and I was like, oh, you can just kind of like, ah. I mean, they have beautiful voices. They have stunning voices, but, like, they're raw, you know? And I'm like. I've just. I've only ever listened to just, like, totally, like, genius R and B singers. I don't know which. It's like, so. So there's. I don't know, there was something like all of these things were kind of in play, the frame of reference of the 70s rock doc. And then listening to Trio being in kind of a sadder place in my life from a breakup, honestly, like, and needing music to fill that part for me. Like, I always. My relationship to music fundamentally changed in this time, which was like, I. Most of the time, I turn to music to, like, to kind of, like, get in, like, a trance. I listen to music to, like, dance and, like, get, like, hyped. I rarely listen to lyrics. I don't listen to music when I'm sad, even though it would be so helpful. Sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

I just checked Instagram. I like to feel nothing and I don't know. So I just was, like, listening to Trio a lot. And this song kept haunting me. And I was like, there is something so audacious about singing this song. And then I started to connect it to these jokes. Like, I had this one joke that I had been doing for a while. It was kind of a longer joke that was specifically about, like, millennial, like, language and a kind of millennial attitude. And it used. And it always ended with this, like, we have to take ourselves, we get serious, you know, before it's too late. In our gravestones, say, because cancer. And that's, like, one of my favorite jokes. And I wanted to include this in the special, but I had no intention of kind of. It was once I. Once I was like. I tried after the Gold Rush, I had Dominique and Princess come over to my house, and they are, like, they were literally working like a Supremes cover band. They're like geniuses, like, really genius musicians and. And. But we're very. Also only kind of used to singing pop and R and B together. And then they came over and we tried after the Gold Rush in my kitchen. And I have the original voice note of it, honestly.

[Jesse David Fox]

And can you send it to us?

[Princess]

I will listen to it and see. Yes, Yes, I will send it to you if I listen to it. I'm not mortified and breathe well I.

[Dominique]

Dreamed I saw the knights in armor coming Saying something about a queen There were peasants singing and drummers drumming and the archers split the tree There was a fair fair blowing to the sun that was floating on the breeze look at Mother Nature on the run in the 21st century look at Mother Nature on the run in the 21st century I was lying in a burned out basement with the full moon in my eyes I was hoping for a replacement when the sun burst through the sky There was a band playing in my head and I felt like getting high I was thinking about what a friend had said I was hoping it was a lie Thinking about what a friend had said I was Hoping it was a lie.

[Princess]

Yeah. So we tried it in my dining room. And like, we, like all three of us, kind of could not do it without getting choked up. Like, it was crazy. And I'm not that kind of an artist, you know, I'm not like a. I'm not like. I've never felt, like, in the way that I feel like great actors are. I've never felt like a kind of channeler of things, you know, I don't feel like I never. I so rarely feel, like, the words moving through me, you know, Like, I don't know, we could not open our mouths. Like, I had to keep stopping because it was so beautiful. And it was just like the second we tried that all together, I was like, we're doing it. Madonna's gone. Take it out is gone. Like, this is so special. And it was also equally terrifying. I was so scared of it. Feeling, to use a word, I hate cringe. A concept I hate cringe. But I was really freaked out about it. But I also realized because of the lyrics of the song, which are kind of about this, like, burnt out world.

[Jesse David Fox]

Very odd song when you actually read it.

[Princess]

Yes. But there did seem to be, for the first time, the lyrics of the songs that I chose, except for I Feel Love, which I think is actually very profound and very connected to what I'm trying to do on stage. Like, the lyrics of the songs usually never matter. And suddenly I was like, this really is connected to this, like, because cancer thing. This, like, kind of finding meaning, you know, at the end of. And it just evoked a feeling that I thought was in some of my jokes. And so. And then I kind of realized I was like, oh, I have these other jokes that I've been kind of trying out that would actually work in this situation or in this situation. I'm really great with words, as you can see. Like. But other jokes that are kind of, like, sort of about this, like, kind of despair about the time that we live in and about the limits of, like, the Internet. And like, this, like, this kind of feeling like we've just generationally inherited a kind of emptiness to our creative lives, our romantic lives. Like, the way that we talk to each other, it just feels like all these, like, social bonds have been broken and we're just like, you know, tweeting from hell, like, tweeting in bed. And it's just. I don't know, I was like, oh, there's a real despair and melancholy to all these. And basically, I'm sorry this is so long winded sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Okay. And I'm almost done. Fine. And I'm probably hopefully answering other questions that come up and then I can.

[Jesse David Fox]

Just go, yeah, yeah, yeah, one question. Why? And then you just go through it.

[Princess]

But then.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, it's clearly also such a thought out thing. It's just like such a piece.

[Princess]

Yes, it was. And don't get it twisted. Like it really was. This was something that I cared about very deeply. But yeah. So then finally, like, I was like, I told Michael Hesslin, who's my keyboardist and also went on tour with me and we got to try this out a lot before the special. But like, I was like, I think we should underscore this chunk of material with a kind of riff on after the Gold Rush. And then we should drop into after the Gold Rush, which is basically just cabaret.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

And like, I don't know, I've never, even though I always have had music in the act, I've never integrated it for some reason into the standup. It's been sitting there in front of me this whole time.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. It is interesting that you saw your shows in the vocabulary of variety shows. Even though cabaret existed and was being done by my friends. Yeah. It's not like you came up like 30 years ago where it was so divided. You were come up at a time.

[Princess]

When Cole, Bridget, Justin, Vivian bond, like. Yeah, no, that was like when I started doing standup. That was like the kind of peak of this. I don't think they would like it to be called this, but like this at least I was written about at the time, like alt cabaret, you know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did you think, did you have a chip on your shoulder one way or the reverse? Chip on your shoulder? Did you have a chip on your shoulder like, I'm a stand up or like, I'm a comedian, I don't do that. Or did you go like, did you have an insecurity of like, I can't do cabaret because of.

[Princess]

I don't know. I always kind of felt like I didn't identify as a cabaret artist and I kind of didn't ever really identify as a standup.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

But I identified as like a kind of Sandra Bernhardt ripoff because she also is somewhere in between.

[Jesse David Fox]

She's like, I don't know what she would call, I mean, at different times because like she started like was like Paul Mooney or whatever.

[Princess]

Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

And so like, that was definitely not a cabaret space.

[Princess]

Yeah. And she. But she was like still kind of like ranting and like storytelling. It wasn't necessarily like, little tiny jokes. And then her music, the way she uses music is always. I always felt, like, a little cooler than what you would associate cabaret with. Like, even though I think, you know, pure cabaret is also very beautiful, you know, when done beautifully. But, like, her, the. The music was a little more just, like, loose and groovy and rocky.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And I always thought that was so cool. And it wasn't. It. It didn't have that kind of almost like, lounge singer connotations of. Of. Of cabaret or, you know, or, like, you know, late career, like, musical theater star, like, roles are drying up. And. By the way, I'll see you there. I mean, sure, sure, sure. But, like, she just. There was just something really cool about the way she did it and that I always identified with how important is being cool? It's not. It's. It's always. It's never been important to me. In fact, I. I've always hated it. You know, I hate coolness, you know, because coolness seems to block people from being sincere. And you can also. You can be. I think you can be sincere and also be. Sincerity does not have to be at the absence of humor, you know, it does not have to happen. You know what I'm saying?

[Jesse David Fox]

So let's start with the song before we get to the joke part, just because we talk so much about it, I think. What I think is interesting is, like, Neil Young doesn't know what this song is about. Like, he looked it up. He said that basically there was a movie script he read. It was about an apocalypse, by the way.

[Princess]

I can't believe I don't know anything about this dude.

[Jesse David Fox]

Keep going now. Definitely will tell you. So the information is there was a script that was sent to him about an apocalypse in California. I think it was an earthquake or something. And then he wrote songs about the script for a movie that never got made.

[Princess]

Oh, wow.

[Jesse David Fox]

So it's unclear if the script was specifically in, like, Topanga Canyon, part of California, but, like, undeniably, the song is about the 60s ending. Like, he wrote it in, like, the winter of 1970. That is the feeling of it. It's about, like, looking at your generation and being like, we didn't actually save something.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

So that's why I was like. It felt so correct. I was like. Did you start by knowing about the history of this song?

[Princess]

Absolutely not. Yeah, absolutely not.

[Jesse David Fox]

I couldn't imagine.

[Princess]

But you pointed out the specific line that obviously felt very related to the material, which is, look at Mother Nature on the run. Originally, it's 1970s. Then when Trio did it, it was 20th century because they did it in the 90s. And then because they changed that, I felt licensed to change.

[Jesse David Fox]

It was the 21st cent. That is bold because you're changing the lyric, but also bold because it's saying, like, I care about you. Was it hard? Was there a time you were like, maybe I shouldn't do it?

[Princess]

Well, so my directors, Leah Hennessy and Emily Allen, who are both kind of like. They're like rockers, you know, they both are musicians and really, really understand this milieu in a way that I don't even like the kind of this period in rock and stuff. But I told them, I was like, I'm struggling with this. I kind of do have a strong instinct to say 21st century. And just to be like, no, no, no. This is unapologetically what this is about. We're changing the word. You know? I was like, but also, maybe it's cooler to just keep it 1970, you know? And Leah was like. She was like, no, I mean, this is like. Was really why I wanted to work with them, partly because I knew they would just nail the vibe. And they're. They're cool and an earned authenticity.

[Jesse David Fox]

They are the legitimately. Because I saw who. I never heard of them until they direct your special.

[Princess]

And they look.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I was like, oh, these are like, cool people who are generationally cool people.

[Princess]

Exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

Leah's stepfather is David Johansson. You're like, wow.

[Princess]

Wow.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wow.

[Princess]

Yeah, wow. Wow. Anyway, working with royalty, but. But Leah was like, no. She was like, lean into the cringe. She was like, that's what this is about. I was like, absolutely. But I felt so safe with them because there was something totally terrifying about all of the music. To me, because music is just. Is fundamentally sincere. To sing it. Singing is sincere and, like, it's like physicalized sincerity, you know? And, like, I guess the fear was that it felt like I was a, like, showing off, you know, like the person who, like, thinks that they can sing and, like, kind of like. Like they're like, singing to themselves in quotes, you know, they really want people to hear their voice, you know, Like, I didn't want it to be like that. That was like. The whole point was like, allow. Like, really sinking your teeth into the kind of sincerity of these songs and, like. And just going for it.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think the other thing that's nice about this song is when you think about the sort of language that you push back upon in, like the sort of. In the. In the joke section, it Is this sort of like unpoetic hyperbole? And this song, I think accurately captures sort of. It's like completely metaphorical while also being able to better express how people feel.

[Princess]

Totally, totally. It does. Well, it's like. Yeah. It's like that used to be the point of language and metaphor and poetry is like to capture the way human beings feel in ways that like, pedestrian people can't.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Can't like that. Like, that's why we had poets so that they could do that. But now there's this like. And this is. I. And I kind of indirectly sloppily talk about this in the special. But it's like, it's kind of like the bon appetit thing. Like. Like kind of making everything seem kind of low brow and approachable. So and so that it's not kind of stuffy like highbrow French cooking that's like alienating and for the. Only for the wealthy. It's like now we say like, you know, lemony, garlicky, crispity crunch to bring people in, you know, which, like, I understand that. Like there's something absolutely valuable about that. But also I'm like, why are you. Like, you're an expert.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Like, it's like, it's cool. It's cool to know what you. To be good at something like. And you don't need to undercut it. And that's happened with like language in so many areas.

[Jesse David Fox]

I was thinking that it's. To speak unemphatically sounds like a bigger compliment than to speak emphatically. Right. Like if you say something is very good, it is actually worse than if you said this is good.

[Princess]

Is good. Yes, totally.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wait, words fail. Like we truly have like broken.

[Princess]

Yeah. Language is broken down in some way.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm not gonna make you. I'm not gonna go through the entire song and be like, what does this mean to you? But here are the lyrics.

[Princess]

Oh my God.

[Jesse David Fox]

And just decide if there's anything that speaks you that you want to just mention that like. Cause again, it is so odd. It's like starts in like the old. So it's basically like three scenes of different times. Kind of like it's like old timey. And then it's like, like medieval.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And then it's the future, which is such.

[Princess]

Yeah. Such a lot. He. I know. Yeah. First it's like medieval, like archers, knights, fanfare blowing. And then it's like. And then it's. I was lying in a burnt out basement with full moon. I was hoping for a replacement. When the sun versus the sky. There was a band playing in my head and I felt like getting high. By the way, the Dolly version, they changed it to I felt like I Could cry, which. Come on, Dolly, grow up. You're fine. Like, your reputation. You're fine. I was thinking about what a friend had said. I was hoping it was a lie. I mean, that something about that is, like, deeply chilling.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And also I felt like getting high, just like. I just like wanting to kind of knock yourself out, numb yourself from the, like, impending, like, doom, I think is very relevant. And then. Yeah. And then the kind of future, like the kind of. What's the rapture? Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Like, I dreamed I saw a silver spaceship flying in the yellow haze of the sun There were children crying Colors flying all around the chosen ones all in a dream the loading had begun. Oh, my God. The loading had begun is. Is bone chilling.

[Jesse David Fox]

I thought the chosen ones are so, so interesting as well.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

As it. Like, the jokes you tell and like.

[Princess]

Oh, yeah. The time capsule.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah. Like when you describe us as students.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like there is something of, like, everyone has to be special quality.

[Princess]

Yes, yes. Totally. Totally. And the whole thing about, like, you know, when we are loading up the time capsule for the future inhabitants of Planet E, whatever. That was a retroact. That was like, something I added once this song had been chosen and, like, the framework for the whole. And again, I don't want to, like, the framework is. It's barely there. And this is ultimately a kind of jazzy patchwork bit.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sure.

[Princess]

Like, this is not, like, I did not in an essayistic way, like, sit down and go, here's what I want to say. I had this, like, yeah, that's. Bag of jokes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. So that. So you. Well, let's pack. Even double back up, which is. How do you generally write your stand up? And then. So what was the sort of process of being like, okay, what's this?

[Princess]

I. I mean, I pay someone to write it for me. Just kidding. I was like, that's great.

[Jesse David Fox]

I don't even mind if you did.

[Princess]

I was like, I mean, people used to do that. Obviously, some people still do.

[Jesse David Fox]

Some people do.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And some people are open. Well, than do. I think more people should.

[Princess]

I agree. I agree.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, there we have so many good comedy writers who are not good performers and so many people who are not good writers who are great performers.

[Princess]

I completely agree. And I think I would be so much better off if I had writers. But, like, I generally just walk around alone in my room or just in the house. Like, and just. I probably look like a crazy, feral person. I don't know. But I'm just. I just kind of say things out loud until. And repeat them over and over again until they sound right, until they feel right.

[Jesse David Fox]

So when you're living your life, you're like, do you use your phone app to being like, yes, but I really.

[Princess]

Want to use a physical. It's so depressing going to the phone because it is literally a physical sensation of being, like, inspired and then opening your phone, and then it just completely sucks all of the, like, sexiness out of it. And you're like. It just feels like, I don't know, so depressing.

[Jesse David Fox]

So a lot of these are things you had that were just sort of strewn about that you, like, collected.

[Princess]

Yeah. Like, I had a couple of those things I think were, like, older jokes that may have, like, the. Because cancer thing and, like, talking about the different, like, language, all the things that kind of stuff. That's not even a joke. That's just a complaint. Yeah. And, like, I had that kind of, like, list of kind of vocabulary, language, slang kind of complaints and that final little joke on the end. But everything else were just kind of like little half jokes that have been brewing a little bit that I. Once I chose this song, I was like, oh, this could be more developed and connected to all this.

[Jesse David Fox]

So when did you realize you were a millennial?

[Princess]

I think in my 20s. I don't think I'd ever heard that word until my twenties.

[Jesse David Fox]

And then. So that's when you realized you were a millennial. But then when did you realize you were a millennial?

[Princess]

You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I know exactly what you mean. I really realized it. I think I realized it most when I was aging. I think I realized it in a real way during COVID Yeah, I mean, Covid is where it really. And then coming out of COVID where you're like, oh, it's over. It's totally over. And I didn't. Oops. I didn't do anything. And it's like, everyone's moved on. Everyone's moved on. And, like, I think our kind of prime, our sexual prime, our, like, are the moment where you're, you know, your 20s, I guess I think we were trapped in a kind of permanent adolescence. And one thing that I really feel like I failed to do in the special is I didn't make. I mean, I kind of try to gesture to this a little bit. I say, it's not our fault. It's not our fault.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, there's a line in here. And you say, it's not our fault.

[Princess]

Yeah. And I say, like. And I say this stuff. I'm trying to talk about the education system, you know? You know, smart. And I really. I don't mean it as. I do not mean this as, like, a fault of anyone individually, like, who uses this kind of language, you know? And everyone always kind of sees it as this, like. Or people write about it always as, like, evisceration of millennials. And it's like, no, no. And then I say, I'm talking about myself, too here, y'all. I'm not going, God, aren't we awful? I'm just saying, isn't this culture that we've, like, we seem to have passively accepted seems awful? There's something going on. And I don't ever explain what that thing is, but I'm just trying to, like, look out at people and be like, hello, do you guys feel this, too?

[Jesse David Fox]

It's so interesting because I guess also, like, a general misreading thing that happens with a lot of people in your work, which is they're just sort of like, he's doing satire. This is satire.

[Princess]

Yes, yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Everything he does is satire.

[Princess]

Always.

[Jesse David Fox]

He's a satirist. He's satirizing. He's like one of our great millennial.

[Princess]

Satyrs, which, I'll take it.

[Jesse David Fox]

But where I think this, like, a lot of the things that people call satire, it's like you are placing yourself inside of it.

[Princess]

Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're not. When I think about, like, these times, I'm like. I'm always. It's like the frog in the boiling water or whatever.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it just. To me, it feels like you're a person who's in the water being like, the water's hot.

[Princess]

The water's hot.

[Jesse David Fox]

Not a person outside the water being like, you fools.

[Princess]

Yes, yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're stuck in that boiling water.

[Princess]

No. I think you have to be actually smarter to be a satirist than I am. I really, like, I. And that was what was on just every level. Like, that's what was so revelatory about this whole special. For me. There was something about the rock kind of aspect of all this that wasn't just aesthetic. It was actually about letting myself be a kind of shaggy dog, like, airhead, which is what I am. I'm like, I'm a really. I'm an earnest golden retriever, and I hate it. I really hate that about myself. I wish I could operate from more of a remove.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And I Wish I was smart enough to, like, deflect and, like, and satirize. I mean, I feel. I have a lot of feelings about the present moment, but I'm not. I'm just not smart enough to, like, turn those feelings into some sort of, like, finely wrought thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I mean, I think there's an emotional intelligence to this.

[Princess]

Thank you. I agree. I agree. And this is what was so huge for me about the putting the music underneath the stand up, which, like, I will never go back to any other way. I will never do it differently. Like, it's. It was huge. And I don't know how I didn't get there earlier, given the fact that I've been performing with the band since 2000.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, the band. And the band would just be standing there.

[Princess]

Exactly. Those poor people. I have made them stand, like, and that's the thing too. Especially I felt so good for Dominique and Princess because they were in heels and they didn't ask to sit, but someone was like, should we get stools for them? And I was like, no. I was like, I'm sorry, no. But, like, it just every. No, it just doesn't. The sitting looks. Does not look right. But the music underneath the standup finally made sense of stand up. To me. Like, it. Because I finally got to act my stand up, you know, Like, I got to act the emotional. The emotional, like, undercurrent. I got to express that and, like, it activated where I could be kind of like coming from a place of despair and kind of reaching out to the audience and trying to, like, look, it became so much more active.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Yeah. Whereas every other thing that's not scored just becomes. Is like, purely kind of observational and like, observing something isn't a very active thing, or at least it doesn't really connect you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And. Or all you. The only. You're. It's always acting. Stand up is always acting. But the job of most standup that's not scored by music, the job. The acting job there, what you're being hired to do by yourself is you're acting naturalism, you're acting conversational. You're trying to create the illusion that you're saying these things for the first time that you're across from your friend at dinner, you're going, you know, it's funny how, like, seltzer, so bubbly that was. Write that down. And it's like, that's. I like that acting job. But it's still a little. There's something I still feel self conscious about. And then putting the Music underneath it and letting me go like. Like pine and like, you know, and I don't know, it. It really, really. And I thought it made it 3,000 times funnier. It made it so much funnier to me. Just talk about these things I think most people think are just like, these weird ephemera of our current culture and talk about them as if they're the most devastating. Because they are. They're devastating to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Especially when you pile them up. I mean, that's like what a comedian can do. You're just sort of like these things that are just like the things that we notice. You're just like. These are all part of a feeling that you're having.

[Princess]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I have a few questions about the first half before we get deeper into the second half. But, like. So why did you. Did you start with the education part? Because of what you said. You wanted some framing of, like, this is. We were born into this. That it was, like, taught to us.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[John Early]

I feel like the only thing we were really taught as a generation is just to Vampire. Just hold the floor. Just keep holding that floor. Keep talking.

[Princess]

Keep talking. Keep talking.

[John Early]

You know, in the boardroom, in the classroom, on your fucking podcast. Just keep stringing those words together. It does not matter if you don't know what they mean. Keep talking. Just keep talking. You know, we're just a bunch of used car sales folks.

[Princess]

A bunch of.

[John Early]

Disruptors and creatives just bumping up into each other.

[Princess]

Because I would never have wanted to just launch into the stuff of, like, the language, because that does border on, like, mean. Because I know there are people in my audience who say all the things.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I was wondering about if you got pushback from these people being like.

[Princess]

I've gotten people, like, really sweet people, like, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed. I'm like, don't. Please don't be. I'm so sorry. Like, you know, I really don't want. But I did feel like I did have to kind of like, shoot the dying dog. Like, I like of some of these, like, kind of these things that we kind of can't let go of certain tics that, like. And I was like. And I'm Maybe I'm willing to be a little mean to do that. But, yes, the education thing, I think you're absolutely right. That was probably a subconscious way of like. But really mostly trying to start with talking about this kind of, like, the. Just the emptiness, the emptiness, the lack, like, the feeling of, you know, doers and makers bumping up into each other, you know, like, just like, kind of roaming the streets. That felt like a potent first image.

[Jesse David Fox]

All right, do the small world joke.

[Princess]

I can't believe I haven't even thought about this. Jesse, come for me.

[John Early]

I feel like now, when people are like, oh, my God, it's such a small world. It's like, is it? Or did we both just go to private school and now work for Vulture?

[Jesse David Fox]

This is a big conversation at Vulture.

[Princess]

I was curious how Vulture felt about.

[Jesse David Fox]

It, but in the special, it kills. And so I'm like, well, that's good for, like, brand standing, but also. So what's up, man? I went to a public university. And you meant you. When you say private school, you meant college. That was a question we had.

[Princess]

I don't know. I actually. I actually meant younger than college. I meant, like. I meant younger because.

[Jesse David Fox]

So that's what I thought people thought you meant college.

[Princess]

No, this is okay. To me, this joke, first of all, embodies, I would say, my style of stand up, if you can even call it that, which is that it is kind of like. That is kind of the way I write. Like, I don't. Like. It doesn't feel like it's me until there's some kind of. Kind of almost ironic poetry to it where it's a little mysterious, like, where even, frankly, I don't know what it means. Cats out of the bag. And that, to me, is also where I feel like I borrow heavily from, or at least I'm very inspired by Sandra Bernhardt, is there's like a kind of jazziness, a grooviness, the way she speaks, where she is kind of like, taking these big kind of expressionistic swings, you know, with her language and kind of. It's like. It's in just kind of taking the swing. That's what's funny about it. And it's like. It's maybe a little esoteric or strange, but she's just like, lands it. I don't know. And so this is a. This, to me, is a perfect example of it. Where I was. Because I always was like. There were a million versions of this joke where I was, like, explaining it. I would start with that, and then I would explain what I meant by. It was never funny when I explained it. I just. And, like, letting it kind of hang in the air was always funnier to people. So I just did start to feel in my actual life, which is a very rarefied life, to be clear. And that's also part of the joke. I know that working at Vulture. And going to Pride school is not a universal experience. But the way I'm talking about it with piano underneath makes it seem like. I think that. And I think that's part of what makes it funny. Okay. But I do feel like I've literally run into people who are, like. I've experienced people who are, like, shocked that we both happen to work in Hollywood. Like, even though we knew each other way back, back in Nashville, you know, isn't it crazy that we both ended up here? As if it was. As if we're special.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And it was some kind of like. Like, predestined. Like. Oh, my God, it was predestined, but it was predestined by our wealth. Yeah. By our luck, by being lucky enough to be born into, like, you know, families that could send us to fucking private school. You know? And, like, even though I don't really wish that on anyone, I think you can learn so much more at public school. But, like, you know, I just. I've literally had people go, oh, my God, it's such a small world. Like, as if it's, like, kind of magical that we're running into each other in these halls of power. And I'm like, no, this was like, we were born into this.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. The halls of power were created to shepherd people from different stages of. That's why it's a hallway.

[Princess]

Yes. Yes. And also, I think, too, using the word vulture was just to kind of describe this almost claustrophobic feeling of the media class that I feel like I am in and you are clearly in. It's like, you know, it's. There's a. And there's like. And this isn't not in the joke exploit. This is entirely implicit, which is like. And it's why I have it in this stretch of materials. Like, there's something so kind of sad about the state of, like, journalism and media and, like, you know, and that, like, you think of, like. And maybe this is all a fantasy, but you think of, like, older eras of New York and, you know, the kind of personalities and, like, the media class. And it was still, of course, a very exclusive kind of rarefied thing, but it was. Maybe there was just. It was a little sexy or something.

[Jesse David Fox]

And now it's like, if you're going Twitter. Yeah. It's like, now, if you're going to use the halls of power to, like, achieve cultural status or whatever, you would want there to feel like there's cultural status opposed to, like, the place I work, which I. Other than this joke, I Don't think of as a place that has particular cultural status. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause that was the thing. It's like, we talked about it. Cause I was like. I feel like very few of us went to private high schools. We have a lot of, like, Catholic school.

[Princess]

Mm.

[Jesse David Fox]

And then an array of some private colleges, but I went to public both.

[Princess]

So I was like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, Sean could have asked where.

[Princess]

I really.

[Jesse David Fox]

I was not offended at all, honestly. I was mostly, like, happy that people knew Vulture was. Yeah.

[Princess]

And, like, I mean, definitely. I mean, listen, I did that on tour now, of course, I toured in Portland, Seattle.

[Jesse David Fox]

To your audience.

[Princess]

San Diego. You know, it's like. Was in the coastal, you know, parts of the country, but, like, it seemed to kind of work everywhere. So Vulture's huge.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's great.

[Princess]

And I want to say Vulture's been so good to me over the years. And I'm looking at Jesse David Fox, who's written so beautifully about me over the years. I'm so grateful to Vulture. But, yeah, there's just something about the work, because I tried other were. I tried other kind of like.

[Jesse David Fox]

What did you say?

[Princess]

Gawker? I don't. I think I did actually say Gawker at one point. The House of the.

[Jesse David Fox]

What I imagined. Oh, interesting.

[Princess]

Which really made no sense in my head.

[Jesse David Fox]

I was like, gawker, if I were to write the joke.

[Princess]

And Gawker is a funnier word. Gawker.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. But also, like, you're probably doing this at a time when Gawker, like, did not exist.

[Princess]

Yeah, no, exactly. I don't know. It seems something just had a kind of. I was compelled to say it, and I was like, I'm just gonna listen to that. And I said it, and people laughed. The one thing that I struggle with, though, with this joke was like, I. In order to make this point of, like, we went to private school. Of course we're here. Of course we're in the same circles. Like, I also had to say that I went to private school. And of course, on some level, I don't want to do that out of, like, you know, the kind of the privileged discourse, the fear of that, you know, But. But also, I don't want to do it, because I do. I actually think that the privilege discourse has, like, withered and died. And I think people are less. People are kind of waking up to the fact that that is yet another way of blaming the individual, you know, and not actually looking at the systemic issues that people claim to be so obsessed with and then just always end up, you know, scolding the individual. But, like. But. And I didn't want to do that. I really, really. The whole special. I was always scanning it. I was like, really trying to make sure I wasn't saying things to, like, self purify, to confess in a way that was like getting out in front of something.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

You know, to like, to circumvent, cancel culture. To like, you know, like, I was really, really trying to remove any sort of, like, things that. Where I'm raising my hand and going, this is where I stand on the kind of political spectrum. Like, I really didn't want any of that. I felt like that was dying and it would not age well.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And. And there's something about that joke that I always feel a little sad about, even though I really like it, about saying the private school thing, because it does feel like me trying to go. Just so you know that I know. I'm aware that I went to private school. And I'm sorry.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

You know, and it's like, I didn't choose to go to private school.

[Jesse David Fox]

We're not gonna interrogate it going to private school.

[Princess]

But like, I don't like that. But it did. It actually seemed necessary to. For the point that I was trying to make, even in my stupid, jazzy little way, it did feel necessary to say that. Anyway, moving on.

[Jesse David Fox]

Also, I think it is useful. Like, it's a small world thing, is a desire that is similar to the sort of Grindr community joke.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Early]

I feel like the only kind of form of community I have these days is my Grinder grid. And I don't mean the people on the grid. I mean the grid itself. You know, it's getting to the point where I'm like, tucking in at night, like, turning on the app, absolutely no intention of going out and hooking up or whatever, you know, And I'm literally. I'm like, goodnight, you guys.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's like, this is what Neil Young gives you, which is like this feeling of, remember when we had community? Which is like. Which is borderline one of those phrases people were saying so much around the time you're working on it, which is like. It became of the buzzwords of, like, community will save us. We'll just have community.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But ignoring ultimately what the desire is, which is a world where, you know, people close to you and you can.

[Princess]

Trust each other, whatever, and you're not all just in the same little echo chamber, you know, that we can, like. And that's. I think that's what the Grindr jokes about. And what this joke is about is just feeling like. And I know this is not everyone's echo chamber, but it is mine. I'm just like. My whole life is just like. I'm just like, we're a big happy family of like Drag Race recappers, you know, and that was. That's my particular milieu. And. But like, anyway. But yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

We'Ll be right back with more John Early.

[Princess]

It's a new year. Maybe you're taking a month off from drinking, you know, dry January, and maybe you're replacing it with something else.

[John Early]

Puff, puff, pass.

[Princess]

Something like one in five people who do dry January say they're smoking weed instead. And more Americans are now smoking weed daily than drinking daily. Current president is into it. No one should be in jail merely for using. Are possessing marijuana, period. Future president is into it.

[Dominique]

I've had friends and I've had others.

[Princess]

And doctors telling me that it's been absolutely amazing. The medical marijuana failed. President and former prosecutor was down to clown. People shouldn't have to go to jail for smoking weed. Even health conscious brain worm guy likes it. My position on marijuana is that it should be federally legalized. Everyone's getting down with pot, but legislatively, we're still stuck with a hot mess in the United States today. Explained. Wherever you listen, come find us.

[Jesse David Fox]

And we're back with John early to get into the A little bit deeper. So can you talk about the dance run? Talk about that board? Like, what did that represent?

[Princess]

Well, there was a huge. I cut out a huge part of that. So the kind of picking up of the pace of the piano, it's actually happened more gradual over the course of that in the live performance. But I wanted to talk about like this kind of the dance that has come out of like, so youo Think youk Can Dance. Like this kind of like really lyrical, like modern dance. It's always about like a relationship. It's always about a man and a woman and like the pushes and the pulls of relationship and then the, like the physical violence and then the crumbling into each other. And like, you know, like, they're like.

[Jesse David Fox]

The way those listening.

[Princess]

John's doing a pitch perfect Me and Michaels impression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's. I've always been really angry about that. And there are all these music videos these days, like, Take Me in Church, you know, and it's like a modern dancer. It's like, like. And you know, I just. I do feel this kind of open the schools feeling with Dance, you know, of like, hello. Like. Like we used to have Bob Fosse. Like, we used to have. There used to be a time where Bob. Where like, I mean, I literally say this, where a choreographer could be a household name. Like the fact that he was an American, he is an American icon, but the fact that in America, the United States of America, the most kind of like homophobic, artless country of them all, you know, that there was still actually a time where like a straight male choreographer was a sex God and was like. And again, was like a public intellectual too, and an auteur. Like, I mean, it's just like it's. It felt like he feels like such a kind of just, I don't know, the kind of artist that can't even form anymore.

[Jesse David Fox]

It'd be amazing if it happened, right? So it's like Justin Peck. Is that his name? Yeah, so it's like, is Justin Peck. Is he like. And then one day I'll be on the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon talking about. And you're like, you left. You're like, no way. But like, that is just what happened. Because it's not like Johnny Carson was like a more artful man than Jimmy Fallon.

[Princess]

Fallon, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is nothing against either of them.

[Princess]

But Johnny Carson though, was doing late night television when you could have unplanned long form conversations so they could go to more unexpected, provocative, intellectual places. Whereas now it's like you have to hit these points predetermined by a publicist about the movie. And you know, and like. And like. So why would you invite a kind of just.

[Jesse David Fox]

How do you build act outs into jokes? Do you like, think of it on purpose, all this. Cause all of this is like, it's a fair. You're talking a lot, but you'll have moments where you do a little thing.

[Princess]

Which has been very kind of confronting. When I've tried to make that comedy album version of the special, I'm like, uh, oh, none of it works, I think.

[Jesse David Fox]

I mean, there's always a Steve Martin thing where you can imagine it, but there are parts that it does.

[Princess]

Well. I've cut two. I cut the bowling joke and I cut the be yourself joke. Cause it just like literally didn't work at all. The punchlines were entirely visual. But I act out. I mean, that is just such a necessary part. It's where my words fail so immediately as a person and as a comedian that I find that I'm far more articulate when I'm just acting something out. I can be Actually much more intelligent in my act outs. So it's right from the beginning, I don't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

So there's a tone that I feel like this part really captures where you go, like, what's happening? You kind of were whining.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I bring this up because, like, this is if you remove, like, you zoom out, you're doing like Bill Hicks or like George Corlin.

[Princess]

Right?

[Jesse David Fox]

Like George Carlin. You're not doing millennial stand up comedian. You're doing that style of comedy.

[Princess]

You're doing the quote, unquote, unplanned Bill Hicks rant.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, yes. Like, you're talking about advertising, but you're doing it in a kind of like, whine about it.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I wanted, like, how do you sort of land on like the person you would be performing that? Because I do think it's such. That's one of the contrasts, which is like, it's not only like you're telling jokes and you're doing, but it's like the type of comedy you're doing. It's like everyone's wrong.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's how I am in real life. I mean, I am a crank. I'm a crank. I'm a hater and I'm a crank. And I'm also, you know, a very earnest you person too. But like, I don't know. I mean, that is what was so liberating about this whole run was just like, actually it felt like of anything I've ever done, I was giving the most access to the public. I was just giving full access to how not full. There's no way to fully give access but like, to anyone. But like, but I was allowing myself to kind of resemble the way I am in real life. And I mean, some of the. Literally what's happening that is also. Cause I took steroids for the second show because of my voice. Got it. I was losing my voice and I was so freaked out and they got steroids for me to, like, cause. And I, you know, cause of the singing element. I had to hit the last note in the dawn of summer. I was like, that's the whole. This is my entire brand built on. And so I was on steroids. So I think I was. There were moments, there are moments of mania, like, absolutely were baked into it from like the tour on, but there was an extra little. And I think that moment of truly singing what's happening is like a really good, like, that's a steroids moment.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so Funny. This is your version of roid rage or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But I think talking about Fosse.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What's interesting, because it's like, that's why the thing when people are saying, seeing this as a satirical piece, I find so off is like, it is not for how much complaining it is. It doesn't feel cynical as much as it feels idealistic.

[Princess]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jesse David Fox]

It feels like. Which is a millennial perspective. Right. There's an entitlement even to these complaints.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, totally. I knew that there was power in the teeth of it. Like, I knew there was power in, like the hater part of it and like the viciousness of it. And I also knew there was power in the, like, kind of open hearted, like, idealistic, pining for something new, yearning for something new kind of that part of that. But they only worked in together.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

They only worked if they were both imbalanced and like, to be just purely a hater is not me. And would be just, I think, unnecessarily brutal and mean. And then to be purely like, you know, would be too cloyingly earnest, I don't know. And maybe come off as like schmaltzy or insincere. And so I had to. Both of those things had to be there.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I mean, if it was so cynical, it would be like you were elitist. You're like, you normies talk like this and like us.

[Princess]

Exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

Us Bob Fosse's are still, we're still living a Bob Fosse life.

[Princess]

Exactly, exactly. No, it was like, to me, like the postmates, not to jump ahead, but like, that is the area where I feel like it's most clear, where the tone is most clear, where I'm like, I am making fun of a kind of language that people use, but I'm trying to show how it's used by advertising companies. And maybe we inherited it it from advertising companies.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Well, if you brought it up, we can jump. People don't need it to be. Every joke is acting in order. But like, maybe I do.

[Princess]

Jesse. Okay, well.

[Jesse David Fox]

The thing about the postmate stuff, which is so good, there's two parts that are so good, which is you get to the. You build through the third postmates example and you set, you're in the middle of it and you go, by the way, mass shootings everywhere. And then you set.

[Princess]

That was really recent. I mean, that was like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because I, I. You could have done the reverse. Right? You could have said like, hate people, blah, blah. By the way, mass shootings Mass shootings.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

But there's something about reversing it that I thought was so interesting.

[Princess]

Thank you. Thank you. I think. Oh, yes. No, I would never want to be like. And this is why there are mass shootings. It just felt like. It actually feels more like how I felt.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Like, which is like. Well, first of all, I do think that there is something kind of. To me, that was exciting, too, because. And this was kind of unintentional, but I like the more and more I said the master, because I like this, which is that this kind of millennial language is not bipartisan. You know, Like, I think this kind of Internet, all the things I think mostly is a certain kind of, like, I would say, like, blue, and I mean Democrat, blue, liberal, kind of, like, side of the spectrum. And then I think, like, mass shootings are so associated with, like, the kind of lone wolf, like, kind of right wing, you know, red states kind of person, you know, and there is something very interesting to me about, like, connecting the kind of hollowness and the hatefulness of this language, literally the hatefulness of this language with, like, that we all use over here, like, born and bred on Twitter and like, in some way trying to insinuate that, like, maybe there are fucking mass shootings everywhere. Because there's literally, like, no substance to, like, you know, our, like, like current contemporary culture.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. We're like, it's an ad for isolation.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And like, you were working on this in a Covid time.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right. So it's like the idea that we would come out. I don't know exactly. Like, we'd in some. In any ways come out of COVID And the lesson we learn is, like, hate people like, postmates is a solution. You're like, it truly sounds like a dystopian future, which is we had a pandemic. And the lesson we learned is, oh, it was so convenient when people delivered me food and I didn't have to talk to them anymore.

[Princess]

Yep.

[Jesse David Fox]

Are we just a bunch of hot messes, or do they just need us to be that way? Come on. That's good.

[John Early]

Oh, thanks, Jesse.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's this perfect mix of, like. It is a good point, but it is also, like, a stupid point.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. And that, to me, what was funny about. And do they just need us to be that way is like. Like, is acting like. I do have any sort of kind of grasp of, like, conspiracy kind of stuff, which I absolutely do not.

[Jesse David Fox]

But also, you're like, it does seem like why are they doing this? And then you follow the thought. It's like, because Postmates wants people to get delivery more.

[Princess]

Yeah. So we need to be, like, misanthropic, kind of antisocial assholes who, like, celebrate our, like, laziness.

[Jesse David Fox]

So the Rick Moranis paint person who did it. Yes, because that was a person.

[Princess]

That was a real person.

[Jesse David Fox]

And their art was Rick Moranis holding a pizza. She could have changed the name of Rick Moranis in the food. I couldn't.

[Princess]

I couldn't.

[Jesse David Fox]

So talk about. Talk about all the feels you had around.

[Princess]

Well, I. You know, there's. This is the thing that's hard about. Like, I wish I were more thorough. I wish I had. But, you know, this special actually came together quite quickly. There were, like, a lot. Some of these jokes were old, you know, but a lot of them were written, like, right before I went on tour. Like, and which was two weeks before I shot the special, you know, because I kind of sold this. The idea of the special, before COVID before I had back surgeries that delayed it. Like, I was basically selling a concept which was, like, music, stand up, rock talk.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Period. But, like, then I was kind of like, I hope you guys don't mind that I don't want to do, like, 90% of these jokes, because 72 years have gone by, you know, like. But, like, I would still love to do a special. So, thankfully, I was allowed to kind of. Well, the thing is, I wanted to do a joke about this thing that I find, like, it feels very generational, which is like, having conversations, having fake, like, heated, like, impassioned debates. Keyword, fake about pop culture. I. And I'm someone. And again, talk about myself, too here, y'all. It's like, I'm, like, I am very. I'm. My whole personality is built on culture and reference and whatever, cultural artifacts, whatever. So, like, I get it. But, like, I have always found that there's, like, a thing in generational people who are like, okay, okay, Bill Murray or Rick Moranis? Like, no, what do you mean, Bill Murray? Like, Rick Moranis is the goat. Like, like, okay, Ghostbusters, man. Like, Bill Murray was in. Like, there's this kind of like, do you know what I'm talking about? It's so strange.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, I know what you're talking about, because it. How do I put this so I don't indict my. I'll put it this way. I know what you're talking about, because an album came out this week. I will not say the album Because I don't want it to be. No. A music album. Oh, oh, of course I'm not gonna say the album because I don't want to time date this.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Of a famous person. And like, people were arguing about this and I go, what? No. No one cares either way about this. Like, it just sort of. It was like the thing to do. And people like this need to be. Have the correct opinion voice and have the record be straight that this is not as good. But is there other albums or. It is actually. No. This is the most. And then they're just like throwing around arbitrary value systems that they don't. They're like, well, it's the most personal. So as a result, you're like, oh, so it being most personal. That's our way of judging art. What is most. Whatever.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I very much talking about. Which is like, this need to be right and be on the record being on. Right. And like, you know the book Amusing ourselves to Death.

[Princess]

It sounds perfect.

[Jesse David Fox]

But it's about television. So he's writing, I think like 1990 about television. How television ruined things. Because, like, people don't have imaginations anymore. They just watch. They. They don't read books. But I do think about that all the time because it does feel like we're like creating content.

[Princess]

Yeah. Musing is a perfect example. Cause it's not actually, like. It's not a deep pleasure. It's a light pleasure. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's just constantly being like.

[Princess]

Yeah. Instead of like feeling like deep joy. Profound joy. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And that's what the Rick Moranis, Bill Murray fights are of like. It's like play acting of opinions.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

When it's hard to remember what having opinion was like in the past.

[Princess]

I know, I know. And yeah. So I was always trying to make a joke about that and it was never working. People weren't really laughing. It felt like almost too. I don't know, too strange of a thing to be trying.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I wonder people. That's the thing about a lot of this, which is like, they think they're living their life.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Which is sad, right?

[Princess]

It's like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. You're like. There is a part where like this thing that you think of is like, manufactured. I thought of as just being.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. But yeah, I. I guess that was left over from that of me wanting to make a joke out of that. And then I really did see a Rick Moranis holding a piece of pizza thing. Portrait. And it did seem to be kind of the perfect embodiment of A painting, a piece of art that is composed of just kind of pop cultural ephemera. And by the way, I love Rick Moranis, a total genius actor, and I find him actually very sexy. But, like, I. It's more. It's the way people talk about him. I'm not trying to talk about him as some sort of slight cultural offering. He's, I think, a genius. But. But.

[Jesse David Fox]

And how do you feel about pizza?

[Princess]

Well, you know, I love pizza. Jesse.

[Jesse David Fox]

Actually, I don't know that well.

[Princess]

I love pizza.

[Jesse David Fox]

Cool. Great.

[Princess]

Jesse. I had it last night. And you. I think that's the pull quote, this whole thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

John Ernest had pizza when in New York. Wendy, New York, try the pizza.

[Princess]

Yes. But I don't know. I used that as. I used that. And I always felt kind of, like, scared. Cause it was real. But I also, frankly, was like, it isn't real. Like, this is so much. It was in a coffee shop. It wasn't, like, a popular piece of art. That was like. You know, I just. It was like, such a small, weird thing I noticed in a random coffee shop. I was like, this is some, like, weird fan art. This is not. You know. And then I saw someone, you know, post. It was even before the special came out, too. They had heard that I was doing it on tour. Someone told them, and they were like, you know, she seemed like a very, very smart and, like, sweet person and was kind of understandably, like, what the fuck, dude?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And I was like, oh, no. Like, I just. This. This is where I'm kind of at war with myself. Because I am a people. I'm a Southern kind of people pleaser. That's, like, completely part of me. And yet I'm also a crank.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

I don't know. And, like, I. And to be a crank, like, some people are gonna get hit with some shrapnel, you know, Like. And I just. I don't know. It was too late. I already done it. I already filmed it.

[Jesse David Fox]

The most generous reading is you being like, you're a talented painter. Like, what do you want to express?

[Princess]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And why is this what we've now thought we had to express? Like, we're not allowed to have our own ideas. We have to, like, literally, like, rehash.

[Princess]

Culture from the past.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right. It's, like, reheated nostalgia or whatever. And, like, maybe if you zoom out, you're like. And that's what I'm. I'm doing this Neil Young song.

[Princess]

This song. Yeah. No, I can't. I can't get over the Music from my childhood. Britney tweet.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, but I understand, like, this is a person, and who knows what doing this means?

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I know, I know. But I think. I think she's. I hope she's okay. And she's really genuinely very talented. And I know that it's like, I don't think me talking about that painting moved the needle either way for her.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you do definitely indict yourself. And I do think the thing about the Bon Appetit thing is like, like, you said lemony one time on a podcast when I was researching this. You just were talking about cooking and then you're talking about potatoes, and you go trying different flavors of potatoes and you say something like, no.

[Princess]

Exact. No, wait, wait, wait. I think I know what this is. It's my grub street.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, you might have said it in there too, but I did.

[Princess]

Describing the potatoes at Kiki, I say lemony potatoes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Actually, I think this is your episode of couples therapy and you're talking about cooking and you say like, something about potatoes and you're like, I'd like to do a different flavor profile potatoes, like a lemony potato or something. And I was like, you're just saying it.

[Princess]

This is you talking completely. Well, let's not forget my biggest kind of moment in Vulture. In Vulture is a cacio. I make cacio. E Pepe. E Pepe.

[John Early]

E. Pepe.

[Princess]

Yeah, for E. Alex Jung. And that will haunt me.

[Jesse David Fox]

Not only that, it's like, I think the last time I interviewed you.

[Princess]

Oh, no.

[Jesse David Fox]

I brought up how every time I've seen you on the street, you were shopping for ingredients and you were going to make ketchup Pepe. And you bring it up. I was like, this guy's freaking obsessed.

[Princess]

Exactly, exactly. So I too. I'm talking about myself here too, y'all. But like that. Yeah, no, I am my kind of. My avenue into being frustrated with that kind of language is actually from my, like, I only got there from like a deep, deep love of that world. And like, and like, I am obsessed with cooking. I, like so many people my age have become obsessed with cooking via the kind of superstars at Bon Appetit. And like, I cook their recipes to this day. It's like, it's like the main. It's like all I'm ever. I watch those videos to self soothe it. Not even just to cook. I, like, watch them as entertainment and I have like so much respect for them. And yet there was a. There was a kind of moment where it all got and this also, like. And I don't. I don't explain this any further. I didn't have the time. But there is something interesting to me about, like, the, like, food content at the end of the world.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

You know, like, kind of like when we know there's gonna be no fish in, like, 20 years, you know, which is, like. I can't even say that. Like, it's so fucking devastating. I have a pit in my stomach. Like, it's hell thinking about it. And, like, it is weird to, like, be. To have that be so ever present.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And yet we're also. I mean, it makes perfect sense. We are also, like, compensating for that by, like. Like, just making everything cheesier and, like. And more childlike. The language around the. Around food has gone from, like, scientific, descriptive, like, to, like, kidz bop, you know? Cause there is. I do think there's something interesting going on. I can't really diagnose it, but I do think there's something interesting about this, like, the cutesy ness of food. And, like, because it is like, you know, like, I want to go back to the. I want to go back to a time where we didn't know these resources were evaporating, when, you know, we didn't have to feel guilty about, like, meat and dairy and, like, you know, and, like. And I just want to eat these rich foods that are kind of like an adult Mac and cheese and that. I mean, honestly, the cacho e pepe thing is not even, like, a bon appetit issue. It's like going to restaurants.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

That were trying to, like, get in on the cacio e pepe, but went up to trend.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And, like. And they always described it to me. They'd be like, we have a cacio e pepe. And I'm like, yep. And they go, if you don't know what that is, they always go, it's kind of like an adult Mac and cheese. And I'm like, first of all, I do know what it is. I essentially invented. I'm the face of cacio e pepe.

[Jesse David Fox]

Part of the trend of it.

[Princess]

And just like. And I just don't. Why do you think that's gonna appeal to me, this adult Mac and cheese? I'm like, I'm here because I am an adult, and I want adult food prepared by adults. If I wanted Mac and cheese, I would go home and, like, heat it up with, you know, the fucking powder. Like, I don't know. Like, I just. I don't like this overemphasis on, like, kit. Like, I don't know it all. It's all connected to the nostalgia thing. Like, I don't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, this is a side note. This is a question. I was curious, do you prefer Molly Bass or Alison Roman?

[Princess]

How could you ever ask me that ever?

[Jesse David Fox]

It's the defining question of the time for white millennials who like to cook.

[Princess]

Well, first of all, I know both of them.

[Jesse David Fox]

I assumed you might. But this is the thing that it's like, no one's talking about it, but everyone knows they're these entities, they're the.

[Princess]

Gods of our time.

[Jesse David Fox]

And they cook so similarly, but different in some ways. They're both blonde. As I said, like me. The thing as I pinpoint it, which is like, Mali is a feels there are similar things. If Molly was the version of it where grew up on the east coast but lives in California, and Allison is that version of a person who grew up in California but lives now on the East Coast.

[Princess]

Right. I actually think they're both, like, aspirationally, like, the other coast.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

Like. Like, clearly, Allison is trying to, like, you know, she loves, like, a kind of New York kind of of like a martini.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

You know, she likes a kind of classic New York sensibility, like, in her food. And I think Molly Baz is more like, is going for the more California Mediterranean cooking style.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

I could never choose. I actually cook both of their recipes quite a bit.

[Jesse David Fox]

This part is too.

[Princess]

No, no, no, leave it. And I want it. And I'm not kidding, because I want. Actually, because this is my deep fear. I have such respect for both of them. I cook their shit all the fucking time. I'm obviously, like, in this bit, like, they are two people who use that language. And again, I understand why. I think what happened was they didn't like Bon Appetit as an institution, did not wanted people to feel like, oh, this is not a stuffy publication just for rich people. Like, you can cook too. And now we're putting these videos on the Internet. Everyone has access to. You know, it's like. And we're going to take away these, like, French cooking kind of of, you know, and try to make it more for everyone. Like, I. And I think that is beautiful. But I think it got out of hand because, like, we. The reason we like Molly Bass and Alison Roman is not because they're just like us.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

We like them because they're really good at what they do.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

You know, anyway, I just love them. And that is. That was an area in my special, where I'm like, I'm using the language. I. I know Molly Bass literally posted it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, really?

[Princess]

She post. So did Carla Lolly music. My idols, like, they both posted that clip. And I was, like, terrified. I was like, no, because there was this part of me making this special where I was like, it was coming together so quickly, and I was like, if I stopped to think about it, and I didn't have any time to stop. I was so tired and, like. But I would. If I stopped for a little bit. Just, like, in bed, in the hotel room, on the tour, I was like, oh, no, I don't. Like, I can't have. I don't want Molly Bass to be mad at me. I love her. But, like, I just was like, but the people are laughing, and this is like, I don't know. I'm just gonna keep going. Something feels right about this. It was all very instinctive, this whole thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. What is interesting is, like, so this follows. So, like, I honestly can't remember the timeline of, like, when. Because Mon Appetit ascended with a force. Early pandemic. I think if I remember the timeline and it's like, then obviously came down, though it's still obviously a magazine, but the video world of it. But I do feel like there's a sense that some people might have, in this joke, that you're actually joking about the fallout, the fall. But then you do the performative joke, which I feel saves you to be like, I'm not. Also, to be clear, I. I'm not the person who's calling everyone performative.

[Princess]

Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because that is its own.

[Princess]

That's its own problem. Yes. No. Yeah. The kind of, like, reckoning of Bon Appetit, I thought is also. Yes, I actually do. That was intentional, like, kind of those things being close to each other. Because, like, there was, like, in 2020, there was, like, I think, a lot of kind of flailing attempts at, like, rebalancing the scales in the. In the world. And, like, I think obviously, we. We should be trying to, like, we should be trying to make a more equal society. I don't think that's gonna happen at Bon Appetit, you know?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. You're making fun of the flailing, not the desire to.

[Princess]

And, like, I just don't. I don't. I think, like, we have to choose our. Pick our battles wisely. I don't know. I found that to be a little wild, but I also don't really know the ins and the outs of that story in any way. But I do think I was, like, happy with those close jokes. Being closer to yourself.

[Jesse David Fox]

So the language, the hyperbole. You do on purpose, right? Or did that come out naturally? Where you go. The way we use language should be so much. We tried in the Hague. And then you're like, I'm doing it, too.

[Princess]

Yeah, that came up. Not in the taping. That was me mimicking a moment that did happen organically, like, I think two weeks prior on tour, where I was like, oh, my God, you're doing it right now.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's the. We lean on hyperbole to compensate for the utter emptiness of being alive right now. Is not like. That's a laugh.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But like, of all the sort of lines that are both earnest and maybe it could be read like, that is not like. That is not like you're speaking like a millennial. That does feel like a clear. Like, this is the point that I'm trying to get at.

[Princess]

Yes. And also a way of reminding people that I'm not. I'm trying to remind them I'm not making fun of them. I'm trying to say, like, this is. There is a deeper reason for this. This isn't just like, I hate the way you talk. Like, it's like, I think people talk like this because doing. It's a really bad time.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. It's the same thing as that you're now making. You're making fun of the flailing, not the cause.

[Princess]

It's like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. And I do think if there was to. When you look back, if someone were to write a book about comedy made in this, a title could be an entire generation of people pretending to hate the word moist.

[Princess]

Thank you. I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud of it because I've been trying to talk about this for years. This is like my. This. If I had to run for president, it would be like, this would be my issue is the way that. I mean, I'm. There might. It might be a kind of cilantro thing. Like, maybe there is a kind of scientific reason why moist as a word actually like. Like. Like the glands. When, you know, your sour glands or, you know, it's like, maybe there is something actually like a Yanny Laurel thing. People perceive that word in a different way. But I've always found that to be a just kind of like, prepackaged quirk. Since I was in middle school, I was like, I don't buy this.

[Jesse David Fox]

It is something about, like, when opinions become memes. All this was done and performed before AI but there is something where you can imagine this dystopian future, like in the song. And then they're like, this is what happened before the Fall of man.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because like, even the Rick Moranis pizza paintings, like, now, that is what AI that's always AI does.

[Princess]

Totally, totally.

[Jesse David Fox]

So there is something about the moist.

[Princess]

Thing where you're like predicting AI, I'm kidding.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or like, we are. Like, the Internet has figured out a way of like forcing us to have very predictable opinions about things.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think that is the sort of feeling I had of like, you're telling people, imagine you're a person who says they hated the word moist.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is be like the allegory of the cave, right? They're like, are my opinions not my own?

[Princess]

Yes, totally. Well, that is kind of what I, I sincerely hoped in this, in this monologue that, like that for the people who are going, ouch, that is me. I do pretend I do tell people I hate the word moist on dates, thinking that it's gonna make me look particularly, like, quirky. It's like, like there are so many people who do that. And like, it's not just that they hate the word moist, it's that when they say they hate the word moist, they think they're the first person who's. They go, I. I kind of hate the word moist. It's always, that's always the tone.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

Like, isn't this crazy? Like, that really rubs me the wrong way. But yeah, like, there's. There's an alternative. Yeah, there is a way out of like, you know, like, there's that you actually, we can try to like kind of wipe the slate clean and actually sincerely express ourselves without falling back on these like just half assed memes that are just like amusing and not like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, that represents having fun and not having fun.

[Princess]

Yes, yeah, exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

They symbolize I'm having fun, but they're not having fun, which is the same thing. Like, like when you talk about the fire emoji.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Early]

And we're all so miserable, but we just line up anyway, you know, we're.

[Princess]

Like, we're like.

[John Early]

Fire emoji. Fire emoji. I wish, I wish y'all could see me at home with my dead ass eyes. Like, yes, mama, go all the way off.

[Jesse David Fox]

Which is like, there's just something about that play act of like.

[Princess]

I know. And that's. That's so real. Like, that's. I have actually. We. It is a weird death pact. Like, I really have felt this thing where my. If my friend posts something, if they even put the slightest kind of moral sheen of like, I'm hot, but for moral reasons. Like, like, you know, like, you have to. Like, you have to comment or you're not on the right side of history or something.

[Jesse David Fox]

I know it. I mean, like, I know I did it when I was, like, promoting the book. Everything had to be a reason to justify why I'm promoting myself.

[Princess]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

And you're like, it's a terrible time. It's terrible when we have to be serious, you guys, before it's too late. And our gravestones are like, because cancer y. It makes me cry.

[Princess]

I'm so happy.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's so. It is so funny. But it is just like. There's just something about it.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And also, I know, you know, then freaking. The song's coming.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this whole. I have to say, like, it really performing this on tour and then into the special, like, it was. It's like my favorite thing I've ever done.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

It's my fair. I've never. I have always kind of. I guess I just wasn't ready in any previous iteration. I've always. I've always wanted the things I do to be emotional, but I haven't really known how to do that. And, like, wouldn't you know, it, slapping some music underneath, it really helps. But, like, I don't know. I. This is the first time I feel like I've made something that was a little less punishing and actually delivered a kind of catharsis for people. Even if it was a little incoherent or sloppy or jazzy or maybe esoteric, I do think that it kind of gets you there, and it's very moving to me. And when we were editing it, I was, like, really, really pleased with how it was actually working on an emotional level.

[Jesse David Fox]

The thing that I was sort of curious about, it's like. I think it's fair to say historically, you have been discomfort. Uncomfortable with sincerity. I think I can't remember. There's the joke that. Or specifically, I think Theta might have said it, which is the hardest part about coming out for you, was that you had the hack quality of sincere language around these things. And Neil Young, I think, is in a pantheon of the most earnest people. And so much integrity. You're doing this at a time when all of his music was taken off. Off Spotify.

[Princess]

Yes. Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

So what has been your journey with being sincere, and how did you figure out what it would be like to modulate it? In this special.

[Princess]

Well, I guess there's just been a yielding to my own sincerity. Like maybe the beginning of my career, I was. I had more energy, I was younger and so I like, could actually work to make my. To kind of COVID it up, you know, I don't know. All the things that I love are actually very sincere and are often misunderstood as being insincere or satirical. It's like the Comeback, you know, something I'm clearly completely obsessed with and ripped off mercilessly. Like, you know that the comeback makes me weep. Like her performance is. That's a dramatic performance. Yeah, you know, that is like a heartbreaking performance. And like, you know, but people often just like how brutal it is. And it is brutal. It's like absolutely. Like it's almost torture sometimes. Some points, you know, but. But it's also total tragedy. And it's like it's full of heart. And you know, Todd Salons, Mike White. I think John Waters is very sincere. I think it's like all these. All these people that I. I don't know, they. But they get. Oh, they often get confused with me, like caustic. So I don't know. In some ways I've always felt sincere, you know, and like on a stand up level, I think that was. What was particularly strange about this process is that stand up has almost always. In a way, even though it's hilarious to describe it as this private, like, because I've never filmed it. Yeah, I've never deliberately like filmed it. I've. It's always just something that. It's like there's something sacred about it, like doing it in a room with people. And it's kind of like this was just for you guys. The stuff that I make is usually more like sketch kind of characters. It's like it's not me, you know, it was wild to find myself at 34, I guess when I shot it, like just crazy. Cause now I'm somehow 36. So what happened there? Yeah, truly what happened there. But like it was crazy to be like kind of for the first time putting myself on record as just like a person instead of as like a perversion of myself into these other characters. And I also realized that was kind of the only way it was gonna be good.

[Jesse David Fox]

I guess the question, and I think sort of tangential is like the idea of performance. Right. So like when I first interviewed you from researching for that is when I even learned who Judith Butler was.

[Princess]

Oh yeah. Did I say Judith Butler? Sorry, I didn't say. Because I don't know any Judith Butler.

[Jesse David Fox]

So this is what happened. I can't remember how, but something about. Maybe you referenced it in some passing, but then I said something about performance, and then you said you called me.

[Princess]

Judith Butler, like an okay, Judith Butler.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, that's literally. No.

[Princess]

And then I was like, that's funny. But, yeah, I wouldn't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's fine. It's not easy to read.

[Princess]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's one quote that I use in the book when talking about you and Kate, but, like, I was like, this quote makes total sense, but everything else is just sort of like. Everyone else uses the same idea of, like, performance with Judith. But the thing about this special, it's like, it opens and you're playing a character.

[Princess]

Yeah, right, right.

[Jesse David Fox]

So it's like. And then you're doing stand up, and it's somewhat, like, clear that probably the person doing stand up is not the character, but, like, because there's just, like, a thin quotation mark around it, it allows it, especially on film, allow you to do a sort of Neil Young thing that I think in person when I watch it, I was like, one person. You're just caught up in it. You're not being like, whoa, this is, like, so intense.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Where, like, on screen, it can probably read a little bit more. Right.

[Princess]

Yes. I think I felt protected by the sketches, for sure. I do also think that's, like, one of the more dizzying, kind of unintentionally dizzying parts of the special is, like, the kind of the dropping of the Persona in the standup, you know? But I also just. I love sketches, and I love sketches about kind of, like, dynamics, like, backstage dynamics. So, like, I just had to. And I just kind of had to hope that people were, like, sophisticated enough to just be like, okay, yeah, that's the kind of Persona, whereas this isn't. And whatever. But I do think that's, like, one of the kind of slightly confusing things, but on a kind of rhythmic level. I'm very happy there are sketches to break up the live performance, but I now have a better answer for the sincerity thing, which is, like, I just. I have spent a lot of time trying to kind of create these, like, monstrous versions of myself. And because, like, for so long, I was like, well, what's the alternative? I go out and be likable. Like, how embarrassing is that? You know? Like, well, I'm gonna be like, please love me. It's like, no. I'm like, that seemed insane to me. And so I. You know, and there was. I was Rebelling. I was rebelling against my upbringing a little bit. You know, I think I needed to work through that. This special was the first time I kind of gave people access to my actual warmth as a person, which I've never been interested in sharing. And I'm not even that interested in sharing it all the time. But it is what I do on stage. What I do on stage as a comedian, I think is far more warm than what I do as, like, a writer of characters, you know? And, like. And I learned a lot from that because I really, really learned, like, the rewards from that. I think this is the most successful thing I've ever done. I mean, creatively successful. This is, to me, the mo. Like, it's. I love my other work, but, like, this is the one thing that I feel like this worked. People liked this in a real way. I feel like I reached new people with this. And more importantly, I just felt. Felt something more when I watched it. And, like. And I. It was a big lesson for me of, like. Well, you know what? Honestly, Barbra Streisand, like, I was watching a lot of Barbra Streisand at the time, and seeing her in what's Up Doc? Was so big for me because I was just like. She just lets herself be filmed in this way that I'm like. I've been on camera for a long time now, like. But I'm almost like. It's like I've never let it film me. I've, like, never. It's like just a subtle internal thing where I'm not even. I'm not letting the camera pick it up. That is also a generational thing. I think that our generation. And this is what I'm trying to sloppily talk about in our special. Jesse, it's ours. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Does seem like I now have part ownership of it.

[Princess]

As a great historian, but you're my Harold Bloom or whatever. There is. There's a generational thing of. Of just, like, feeling kind of imprisoned in this self consciousness and irony and, like. And that you have to. If you are like. And I think that happens to actors too. Like, they're like. Of our generation and younger. There's like. Because we're always filming ourselves, there's a constant. The camera's not, like, special anymore. You know, it's like. And I don't know, I just. Watching Barbra Streisand for some reason, this is true about so many actors. There's just something so particularly, like, lush about her face. And, like, there's a Wateriness to her eyes and like. And she's just charming. She's so funny and charming and warm. And I just was like, I know that, like, again, I tend to be drawn to these things that are a little more punishing or sour or critical or, like, I like characters that are annoying. That's kind of like there's something. But I like. The reason why I like them is not because I like to be annoyed, is because I like it almost as like a compassion, like an exercise of compassion. Can you feel compassion for someone who's like, so annoying, you know, which is like, to me, the project of the comeback.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Princess]

It's like, yes, she's grading. Yes, she's like, butting in, but can you see her humanity? You know? And like, so I'm. That's where I am always coming from artistically. I'm never in the camp of just, like, show, like, like, charm them from the top. And like, you know, on stage I'm a. I'm. It's more about charm. I let myself be kind of more lovable on stage and. But I. And that's why I never wanted to film it because I was, like, kind of embarrassed by that fact.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. So, yeah, there is a thing about, like, you don't explicitly offer an answer to this problem to people. But I do think in some way, which is like, I wrote down self conscious as well, which is like, if you are self conscious about performance or whatever, really the solution you offer, at least to yourself, is to just perform.

[Princess]

To perform.

[Jesse David Fox]

The funny thing always about the sort of performance as a concept is that literally the solution would be don't conceptually, like, be performing yourself. Like, literally be performing yourself.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally. Yeah. No, performance as a concept has been a disaster for all of us, you know, like. And I think that's something that Kate and I, like, talked about from a place of sincerity, obviously, or like, people feel that. That our work is exploring that, you know.

[Jesse David Fox]

But famously I wrote.

[Princess]

But like, and of course it's true, but, like, I do think it is made. It has unintentionally kind of like, created a just. It's one of the many ways in which I think we are like, uniquely as a generation, very self conscious. And.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'll say this, it has a danger of if you kept on. Let's say you kept on doing that forever.

[Princess]

But.

[Jesse David Fox]

But the criticizing how people that all attempts at being honest on stage or whatever is actually a performance. So as a result, I'm not gonna be honest on stage. I'm gonna be ironic on stage because that's honest. You're like, yes. However, you're also now using that as a way not to be vulnerable on stage.

[Princess]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so. So, yeah, it was really nice for me to remove that layer. And of course, it's a performance. Of course. I did that same show literally an hour before. You know what I mean? And then had the balls to pretend like I was saying it for the first time an hour later. That is the social contract of Stand Up. Everyone knows that Even your most non Judith Butler studying person knows when they're going to see Stand up, that it's fake.

[Jesse David Fox]

They don't.

[Princess]

And you don't have to add that extra layer. What do you mean?

[Jesse David Fox]

They actually don't.

[Princess]

What do you mean? Like, honestly, they think it's happening real time.

[Jesse David Fox]

They're coming up an amount of the people. Do.

[Princess]

They think that they're just going booty, booty, booty. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Okay, wow.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's hard to quantify that amount. Yeah, it has decreased over time because of podcasts or whatever. So you mentioned Kate and like, this special is in conversation with Kate, the show Kate, at least in my opinion. And it's also, I think, in conversation this part, especially with that funny feeling by Bo Burnham. And there's some ways I feel like it's in conversation with parts of Jacqueline Novak special in terms of, like, the inability of language to articulate. So we're gonna, like, push through or whatever. So how much of it is literal conversation? Like, how much do you and your friends who are doing and whoever. People I didn't name, whatever. Also literally being like, where. Like, I think of. There's an exhibition currently at the Met where I forgot the other guy's name, Matisse. And the other person who invented Fauvism, like, spent a summer together and invented Fallvism. Not on purpose.

[Princess]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

There weren't like, oh, crazy. They were both creating Fawziv.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So the point being, are you being, like, talking about your comedy and your art this way? And then as a result, your work is a reflection of those conversations? You can say, no. It could be just a coincidence.

[Princess]

No, it's not. I mean, it's both. I think that we're. I mean, yeah, I do talk about, like, I was talking to Kate, like, while I was on tour and kind of being like, I think I'm gonna do this thing with, like, I was freaking out. I was like, I'm gonna do this, like, Neil Young thing and, like, tie it all Together and put music underneath it. And. And, you know, but maybe I should just do Madonna. You know, like, we were, you know, she knew that exact struggle, as did, like, my other friends that I talked to about this stuff. And. But it's. It's. Well, I mean, also, like a lot of the kind of cultural critique in the special that is a. That we are all, I think, preoccupied with a lot of those things and that. And so I do like Jacqueline Kate, you know, Theta Cole, you know, and on and on. Like, these are people. I think we share a lot of the similar. Similar frustrations. And so in that way, like, I'm. I do feel like I'm talking about these things at dinner with them. And so, like, it might be.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

You know, and then we. And then we all have our own unique ways of then processing that artistically. But, like, we are absolutely having these conversations.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's probably because imagine you weren't, and then just out of nowhere, you all have, like, similar things and you work. It would be so beautiful.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, totally. But in terms of, like, you know, I guess maybe like, explicitly being like, how do I do this one thing? Or. I don't know. I mean, I wish I had a better answer for you, but I just.

[Jesse David Fox]

I do think I just literally always curious about when people are doing work that is not similar in any way, and they are also friends. And like, comedy, you see just the manifestation of. And obviously you and Kate, like, literally did a thing together.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Which partly has. Some of these themes are also explored. So, like, it's not. It just sort of was like, it's. Honestly, it's less. I wanted to learn and be like. Won't be nice to paint the picture of, like, what your friends are like.

[Princess]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and Jacqueline, because I, you know, directed the early version of that show, like, I, you know, we talked about that endlessly all the time, you know, so, like, what.

[Jesse David Fox]

Cause it's Jack.

[Princess]

No, it's the great pleasure of being friends with her. But, you know. Yeah. But I also think. Okay, here's a real answer is that with me and Kate, I think we both feel like we have been in, like, a little bit of a prison of our own making with this, like, brand of being satirical, ironic, artificial, or, like, high minded. Talking about the nature of performance, the performance of the self. It's like words that literally have no meaning to me. I could not feel more dry inside when I said that, you know? But, like, I think. And I think both of us just are growing up, you Know, and we just have done that stuff for a long time now. And it's like, you know, as scary as it is to not be the hot young thing anymore, it's also like, oh, great, I can move on. I can evolve finally. And I think both Kate and I, with our. My special with her show, wanted to in our own ways, which I'm sure people are frustrated with. And, you know, maybe they don't feel like the kind of access that we assume we're giving to people.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

But like, I think her show and my show were incredibly emotional. And like, I think that's. That's. For some reason we have kind of not let that into a lot of our work. Even though I do think a lot of our work is emotional. I think our sketch special is very emotional. Both of our episodes, the characters are very emotional. 555 is very emotional. But I think we were maybe almost sly with that. And these two things we wanted to wholeheartedly be, we wanted them to be moving.

[Jesse David Fox]

Both of these things made me cry where the other things makes me cry.

[Princess]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. I think you have to be like, we're maybe giving. We're allowing ourselves as actors to be emotional in those things, but we're not letting the thing itself create emotion. And that's because that's a skill that you have to develop. Like, that was not our intention. You know, I think you really. That is a. That's. It's harder to do that.

[Jesse David Fox]

You might have addressed this, but you're. So, as a result, doing this completely changed who you are as a stand up.

[Princess]

Totally. I mean, I don't think I can ever. I mean, I can do short sets, of course, without music, but I. And I will and I have to. But like, I really. This longer form thing, I now want the whole goddamn thing to be underscored.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Princess]

And like, I want the music to be like, much more integrated into the whole thing. It just. It just makes me want to do. It makes me rise to the occasion more as like a writer, as like a. I can't say this word, but, like, come on, say the word.

[Jesse David Fox]

I actually don't know what word you're gonna say.

[Princess]

Artist, Thinker. Because I'm not a thinker. But you have to think ideas. You literally.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's required for the job. Because I do think, like, I imagine. Imagine you being a person who would laugh when a comedian was described as a public intellectual or a philosopher, whatever. But like, you are doing that in.

[Princess]

This as like a kind of surfer, bro. Yeah, sure. But yes, totally. And that is kind of the joke of all of it. Or, like, that's kind of the main thrust of all of it is like, I'm trying to be this kind of, like, messy haired, like, shaggy dog that's, like, hope, like, trying to get you guys to process this thing with me.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know, is this special.

[Princess]

Special to me, it is very special. It's very special. And that's. And that's also because, like, I have no relationships to, like, specials, really. Like, I've never had ambitions to, like, have a special. And so the only way to make it interesting to me was to treat it like it was a film and, like, and to make it feel risky emotionally. And that I was actually kind of making a kind of cultural offering beyond just the kind of. It's hard, I think I feel so sorry for any comedian trying to make a special right now because there's so many. And it's just like, it's really not that exciting to make a special now as. Because it's like, well, this will just immediately get lost. This will just disappear the second it's released. No one will care, like. And so I think to try to shore up against that, I had to, like, really, I had to work with people like Leah and Emily who were gonna take it as seriously as me and we. We, you know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Now it's time for the final segment of the show. It's called a laughing round. It's like a lightning round because it's a comedy podcast. It's called the laughing round. Do you have a favorite joke? Joke?

[Princess]

Like, like, why did you. No. But not even out of letting.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have any that you think of that you don't even like, but you think you know they exist. Well, you knew. You started one.

[Princess]

What we started.

[Jesse David Fox]

Why did the chicken cross throw? So you at least know one.

[Princess]

Classic. There's. This is an awful one that I just. Because it's, like, dirty. I like, it's, like, stayed in my mind. Not because there's any real merit, but, like, I mean, no, there's merit. I was just. Just like, wait, wait. Oh, did you hear that diarrhea is genetic? Do you know this one? Did you hear that? No. Oh, yeah. It runs in your jeans. So stupid. I'm sorry. Obviously did not come up with that.

[Jesse David Fox]

That'd be amazing if you did.

[Princess]

If you had listened to I'd be a Star.

[Jesse David Fox]

If you're like, I can't write jokes except for, like, perfect street jokes. Is there a joke or any sort of piece of comedy that another comedian did that you wish you could steal. You wish it was a thing that you can do or tell.

[Princess]

Yes, it's happening right now. So it's like I don't want to give it away, but I can, I feel like. But. And I haven't even, I wanna be clear, seen the show. I just know the concept. Cause I'm friends with this person, Richard Perez, who is really, I really love him and I think he's extremely funny. And I heard that he has a live show that I'm dying to see where he kind of acts out like the kind of the course of a relationship in a kind of Blue Valentine way. But it's just him. And so it's him doing kind of indie movie like rom com kind of stuff of like meeting for the first time and like going on the first day. But it's all one sided and you're kind of imagining the other person. And that style of acting is so pleasurable to me. You know, it's in the special a little bit. The like, hey kind of stuff. Like Kate and I love that stuff, you know. And I heard that. And this is maybe a spoiler, but I heard that the show. But I also think this will help sell the show to anyone needing to do something tonight. There's a sex scene and that maybe even is the climax where they're having sex for the first time. And it's Richard on stage, hyper realistically acting out all the sex, but alone on stage. And when I heard that I was like, cool. Well, I have no one to blame but myself.

[Jesse David Fox]

Bet you didn't.

[Princess]

Absolutely should have gotten there. I don't know how I didn't get there. Good for Richard. I bet it's genius. But he is a genius. And so yeah, I wish I could steal that.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is the best time you ever bombed?

[Princess]

Best time ever bombed in like a kind of character building?

[Jesse David Fox]

I just write the. I just write and say the question. You have to come up with the answer. I like, I try to. As I've honed these questions, I try to have them be more abstract and.

[Princess]

Okay, well this I'll just think the re. I did a recent show and this was after the special in which I was, you know, again, best creative experience of my life period. Like, could not feel more like not again. It's not like I walked away from that going like I'm an incredible stand up. I still look at that and go, John, like clean it up. Like it is like I can bear. I'm just saying like, you know Just constantly, it's like, like. And that is, again, it's messiness I had to immediately accept in the editing process. I had to go, that's. I knew that's what I sounded like, obviously, but like, I. I kind of can't believe I let some of those jokes go on as long as they do without like getting to the fucking point, you know, anyway. But I, I still, I still just as a piece, I felt very, very proud of the piece and what was communicated and you know, and I did stand up. I did like a 20 minute set of like new material and just ate shit. And like, this was in December and I hadn't done stand up since the special. And I just like, I was trying to do the thing that I had done in this very thing. I was trying to talk about.

[Jesse David Fox]

You.

[Princess]

Know, I don't know, talk about the streaming wars and the strike and like, and talk about like the. How empty, like TV is and you know, and. And these apps are. And like, you know, and I was like, kind of using excited to be like, well, this is my thing now. Kind of speaking for like cultural commentary, but with this like, kind of yearning feeling. And like, you know, and I was like, and I'm gonna do it because this is my thing. And it works so well. And it just. I totally ate shit. And people were like, People were like, like, it felt like people were like mad at me. Like, actually like that I was being such a nasty crank or something. And I kept forgetting what I was gonna say next. It was humiliating. I literally. And I was. I had no tools. I had no tools to cover up when I was. I had no joke to go. Well, I forgot what I was gonna say. Like, I had nothing. I was like a little 8 year old. I was. I would. I went totally blank and I'd be like. And I walked to my phone and I was like, red in the face. I just kept looking at my phone and be like. And I put my. Grab the next joke in my phone, put my phone down. As I was putting my phone down, would forget it again. I was having. I was like, it was hell. But. But what? I. The reason why I said this is the best time I ever bombed is because it was so humbling after feeling so good about my special that I was like, like, oh. I also like, need to like, the special's done. I actually need to like, let the, like, burn the forest and let it regenerate naturally and like, see who I am and not try to like just kind of ring this thing that was great about that out and try to exploit it. Like, I need to, like, I need some time to, like, for it to come back a little bit. And that's okay.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's okay. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?

[Princess]

Comedians. Comedians. Comedians. I mean, would you describe Amy Sedaris as a comedian? Sure. Okay. She's a comedian the way I love comedians. You know, she's a comedian. So she. I just. A short story is that I have somehow know her now and. And she has let me stay at her house when I visited New York, and when I got to her apartment, I got the key from the doorman, and it was in an envelope that said fag. And this guy, like, handed me the envelope, and I was like, it was so amazing. She's so amazing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have any advice for an aspiring comedian?

[Princess]

Well, not so much advice, but I just feel so sorry for you. I don't know. Like, I can't imagine trying to be a comedian right now.

[Jesse David Fox]

Why?

[Princess]

I think. I don't know. Just. I feel so lucky to have been starting comedy when there wasn't, like, a lot of iPhone stuff, you know, and there wasn't really. There was social media, but, like, Instagram was. Was literally, like, for your pictures. Yeah, like, putting, like, a beautiful picture that you would, like, use a filter on to make it look old. Like, that's what it was like. It. I still. I was able to perform for a few years where it did seem kind of. It existed outside of the phone and social media. And, like, obviously Twitter was very big and instrumental, and I would even my career, like. But, like, I don't know, I just would. I would hate to be trying to make stuff with social media the way it is right now.

[Jesse David Fox]

Who's the best comedian working?

[Princess]

Well, you know who I really, really love these days who I just think is totally brilliant is Pat Regan. Like, I just. I don't know. I think he's so smart in a very special way.

[Jesse David Fox]

Last one.

[Princess]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is there a joke that you think is so funny that just has never worked, but you'll go to your grave being like, I was right there wrong.

[Princess]

Oh, my God. Wait. Yes, there is something. Jesse. I'm not gonna remember it. I can feel it. I'm not gonna remember it. And if I. But what if I. If I remember it, can I send you a voice note that you include?

[Jesse David Fox]

So funny. The only other person who ever said this was Jaclyn Dalevak. Yes. And Then she's, yes, totally.

[Princess]

So the joke that I tried to make work that I still believe is very, very funny in my heart. Like, it really makes me laugh, but it doesn't. It did not work in the special. We ended up cutting it. But also it didn't work anywhere when I tried it before the special, but it was like me pretending that everyone. Like, I received an anonymous email with pictures of everyone in the audience attached to it, and it was pictures of them at the Capitol. And I basically said, like, you know, I can't stand idly by. Like, I have no choice but to post. And then I say, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Like, it's actually not funny. Like, I. I don't like making jokes about January 5th. And that was called saying January 5th was just really cracking me up. And in the version I tried to do before, the special was very, like, I, like, kept saying it over and over again. And then when people would laugh, I would go, what? Like, and then I would accuse them of taking January 5th lightly. And it was just very funny to me saying January 5th over and over again. And it never worked. Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thank you, John.

[Princess]

Thank you. Thank you, Jesse. This is really a thrill for me. I really appreciate it.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's it for another episode of Good Ones. You can stream now more than ever on Max. Follow John on social Media Johnson Good Ones produced by myself and Jelani Carter. Gavin Srikishan did our theme song. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts 5 stars. Please email any comments, questions or laughing around suggestions to goodonepodcastmail.com or tweet us oodonepodcast. I'm Jesse David Fox and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book comedy whenever books are sold. Stream the Good One TV special on Peacock. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next Tuesday. Have a good one.

[Princess]

Welcome to Good One show about talking them jokes. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Good one. It's a good one.