Loading summary
Transcript167 lines
- [00:01]
Padma Lakshmi
Spring is here, and there's a whole
- [00:02]
Advertisement Voice
new way to chai at Starbucks that's
- [00:04]
Padma Lakshmi
made perfect for you.
- [00:05]
Advertisement Voice
Choose your sweetness, dial it up or keep things light. Add a touch of pistachio, a hint
- [00:12]
of strawberry or vanilla, or make it
- [00:14]
a spring classic with lavender. Because this season, there's endless ways to chai at Starbucks.
- [00:22]
Thirty years ago, blinds.com broke the mold and made custom window treatments easy for everyone. Over 25 million windows later, we're celebrating by giving our customers up to 50% off site wide during our anniversary sale. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, blinds.com has you covered. Shop online, access real design professionals and get free samples. Thank you for 30amazing years. Shop the anniversary sale now through March 11th and get up to 50% off site wide@blinds.com.
- [00:52]
Padma Lakshmi
i think there are very few places in our culture today where you and this is the bargain that I believe in. I know a lot of other people exactly believe in this. If a person is standing on a stage with a mic and it's clear that an audience is there to watch comedy, I think all bets are off. I think it should be a safe space.
- [01:19]
Jesse David Fox
This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer as vulture and author of comedy book, how does a celebrity take control over how they are perceived? My guest today to discuss how she did exactly that is Padma Lakshmi. For decades, as a model in a very public marriage and the host of Top Chef, she was looked at, gawked at, and observed. But she wasn't the one deciding how she was seen. Over the last decade, that has changed. She became an advocate for women's rights and immigrants. She released her open and honest memoir, Love Loss and what we Ate. She left Top Chef. She created and starred in her travel show Taste the Nation, and she started doing, if you can believe it, stand up comedy. The last part, as you'll hear, was something I might have a little bit to do with. Padma is back in the food competition space with America's culinary cup. The difference is now she's in charge. So here is Padma Lakshmi. I'm here with Padma Lakshmi. Thank you for joining me.
- [02:15]
Padma Lakshmi
Hi. It's nice to see you.
- [02:16]
Jesse David Fox
Nice to see you. So as we start, what is the funniest, strangest, or most fascinating thing that's happened to you this week?
- [02:23]
Padma Lakshmi
Well, I can tell you that I went to a cocktail party for a particular actor and I mean, they were getting bombarded by people and I just wanted to say hi and then leave. And coincidentally, I had just seen another movie of theirs. They had two movies out and they kissed me. Not on the mouth. I just went to give, you know, a nice social kind of hug and I didn't even notice it, but my daughter who was with me noticed it and she said, he kissed your neck? I said, did he? And I wish I had known this when it was happening. I would have enjoyed it more. But that made me feel very nice.
- [03:09]
Jesse David Fox
Not like a French hello or anything like that. It was just sort of like something
- [03:13]
Padma Lakshmi
he could have just missed. I don't know. I don't. I mean, I just thought I was giving him a hug. I didn't realize, you know, I have a lot of hair, so I didn't realize he actually made contact, but I wasn't sorry about it. Yeah, so that was a nice, sweet thing that unexpectedly happened. But other than that, I've just been knee deep in editing my show and hanging out with my kid.
- [03:34]
Jesse David Fox
I think it's pretty good as people who are doing that otherwise are doing. I think most people editing shows and hanging out with their kids don't also get potentially kissed on the neck by whatever actor this was.
- [03:43]
Padma Lakshmi
It was very special. Even in my world, it was incredibly special. I mean, I don't think they meant anything by it, but I wish I had enjoyed it more is all.
- [03:52]
Jesse David Fox
Well, hopefully they're watching and they'll reach out in the comments.
- [03:55]
Padma Lakshmi
Exactly.
- [03:56]
Jesse David Fox
So I feel like we'll probably start by talking about how we know each other. Yeah.
- [04:00]
Padma Lakshmi
You just reached out to me. You cold dmed me. If I remember, several years ago, even before pandemic.
- [04:08]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, 2018.
- [04:10]
Padma Lakshmi
Wow. I can't remember the year, but I know it was a while ago and you asked me to do a comedy show, which I literally was shocked about because I love comedy and I know comics, but I have no in the comedy world. But you were very steadfast in your belief and faith in the fact that this would be a good thing to do. And it was. So on behalf of all the charities that we have benefited, thank you for pushing me to do it. You know, it was really, really. I mean, you are single handedly responsible for a new avenue that has opened up in my life that I more than anyone else am shocked by.
- [04:55]
Jesse David Fox
I will not say I was planning on that. When we first started, it was.
- [04:58]
Padma Lakshmi
How could you. There's no evidence to indicate that at all.
- [05:01]
Jesse David Fox
Well, it was just you. So essentially the story is. I think it was like Louis CK was coming back at the comedy seller and you just sort of Tweeted, what about instead focusing on these comedians?
- [05:11]
Padma Lakshmi
Correct.
- [05:11]
Jesse David Fox
I was like, what a surprising list of comedians for a person who is not in the world to know about. And now those people makes sense to me.
- [05:20]
Padma Lakshmi
Oh, my gosh.
- [05:21]
Jesse David Fox
It's like Bowen Gang.
- [05:22]
Padma Lakshmi
And like, I'm so proud of our roster because it's, you know, we had no way of knowing. But, yes. I mean, when we did this show seven or eight years ago, now, you know, people who are up and coming, like Nikki Glaser and Bowen and Matt, and, you know, all these other people are now totally big. And I feel very justified in my taste and yours, of course. But, yeah, it was. Basically, I went on a Twitter rampage, which is not something I would do now. It's Threads, I guess. But I love Threads. But the comment section on Threads is priceless. And so, you know, I started listing all these comedians who I thought deserved that platform and would really benefit great New York comics. You know, women, people of color, queer. I mean, Jay, Jordan, you know, that way we found all these wonderful people, and it's been a lot of fun. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. It's been so much fun. It's been. You know, I've always admired comics, and I know some personally who are actually a list real comedians. So I've always admired it. And I think that there's nothing more vulnerable than being on a bare stage with nothing but a microphone and your intellect and mind and creativity. And when you have people staring back up at you and those lights are really bright, you have to think on your feet. Cause maybe, I mean, this has been my very, very nascent experience in it. But, you know, when sometimes the material lands, sometimes it just doesn't. And you can't keep insisting on using the stuff in your pocket if it's not landing. And I think there's something so excruciating but also exhilarating about that when it does land, and when it doesn't land, it's okay. I mean, there have been times when I've bombed, you know, at open mics and stuff, like on the Upper west side, for example. And it's felt really icky in the moment. And it's also hard because when you're somebody who people are used to seeing do one thing or known, it's hard to fail in private. But it's. Even in those moments, it's been. Even that humiliating experience or that difficult, icky, uncomfortable experience has been beneficial to me because I didn't die. I still went home. I Still had breakfast the next day, and it was a very hard, humbly experienced. And I think it's important to have those challenging moments. If you are a creative person. You don't necessarily have to throw yourself in the deep end of standup comedy like I chose to, but, you know, I think it's really important in life and whatever you do, whether you're a venture capitalist or a florist or a surgeon or a teacher, to continually challenge yourself intellectually.
- [08:19]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, you kept at it. So essentially, like the first time you kind of said a couple things, and then each time you would sort of say more. And then by the end, by the last few ones, you did like you do 15 minutes, right?
- [08:31]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah.
- [08:31]
Jesse David Fox
And what have you found? Like, where does that come from? The desire to. And now you pursue it unrelated to the shows. And you're quite both passionate and diligent about it in a way that I think I definitely surprised because I think, like, some people are like, oh, maybe we'll do it as a hobby. But, like, you have been pursuing it. What has been motivating you to do it, the amount you've done it?
- [08:52]
Padma Lakshmi
I think it uses a part of my brain or spirit that doesn't get tapped a lot, and I think I need that. You know, I had done one TV show for 17 years, then I did both TV shows for five years, and then I was working on the cookbook for seven years contemporaneously. And so I was just really aching to have something that was separate from that. And, you know, I was an actor and I did a lot of improv before the food stuff took off. And I'm very thankful for the career I have. It was completely unexpected, but I did miss a certain kind of creativity that is not utilitarian and not politically correct and not catering to the demands of a TV show, a publisher, yada, yada, yada. And, you know, I do things when I'm on stage as a. As standup that I would never do anywhere else. You know, it allows me a way to get my most intrusive thoughts out somewhere. And, you know, I say things I would never also say in, even in my social media, especially in my social media. And I love that construct. I think there are very few places in our culture today where you. And this is the bargain that I believe in. I know a lot of other people don't exactly believe in this. If a person is standing on a stage with a mic and it's clear that an audience is there to watch comedy, I think all bets are off. I think it should be a safe space. You know, there are lots of comedians that I gravely disagree with on many things, but even those people, I think they should have some space to say all those things, you know? And again, not that I think they're all funny, not that I agree with them, but there should be somewhere in our culture to be free. And that's what I like about stand up.
- [11:01]
Jesse David Fox
I've always. I believe there's a story about UCB that I. It's when I first learned that you took improv classes, and then I remember you finished the classes, and then you were like, can I take the classes from the beginning again? What's it like? Do you have a sense of what it's like for these aspiring comedians who knows what to be in a class with you?
- [11:21]
Padma Lakshmi
It can be awkward because. Yes. You know, 15, I think probably 16, 17 years ago, I went through the UCB professional program or whatever it's called, and I loved it. And in fact, I performed at their old theater. And on the way. My last performance. On the way to the performance, I didn't know it then, but I was already pregnant and I got in a car accident. But I still made it to the theater because I really wanted to go. And even then it was weird because New York Post covered the event, which it was really like a daytime show on a Saturday, that there should be no press at that. And I'm kind of very un into press at comedy to begin with, for obvious reasons. I know you're a comedy journalist, so pressing company notwithstanding. But, you know, so that kind of irritated me. And so then I just let it go. You know, something had to give. I had four jobs. I didn't have the time and bandwidth. And then now my kid's older and we were doing those comedy shows. And you're right, for the first few years, I would just come on, thank everyone for being there, and literally let you know Bowen and Matt handle the heavy lifting of hosting the thing. And I sort of had the beautiful pleasure of being surrounded by all these comedians and just going deeper and deeper and deeper into it, in effect, in a very safe space. Because the heavy lifting of being funny wasn't on me. Except you never knew what comedians were gonna be there until the last minute. You just knew I was throwing the show. What was your question? Oh, they can't hang about.
- [12:50]
Jesse David Fox
What's it like for you?
- [12:51]
Padma Lakshmi
It's weird because, first of all, they're all aspiring actors and comedians, and most of them are young enough to be my Kids, like, I have these wonderful girls from my last improv group that are literally like 23 and 24, and I even tried to hire a couple of them on this new America's Culinary cup, and I couldn't do it because of different rules and stuff. And I love it. It keeps me current. It's weird for them. I mean, it is only weird for them in the first couple of weeks. But, you know, there is. If you don't. If you haven't watched any of the shows I've done, it's not weird. You just know there's some, you know, pretty middle aged lady there. But if you have. It can be a little unsettling at first, but then hopefully that goes away when they know, you know, I'm still.
- [13:43]
Jesse David Fox
You're still doing it?
- [13:44]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah, I'm still doing it and I'm still learning. And so I did. I think that's cheating a little bit. But. But I knew that I didn't want to assume I remembered or knew anything, and I didn't want to do that celebrity thing of like, I want to join, you know, at 103. So I actually started at the bottom again and I did, I think, three different stints or semesters or however they call it. But I actually put myself back even after that because I don't think I learned enough in one class and I didn't want to graduate, so I held myself back.
- [14:20]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. Cause I imagine so many of those classes they're helping teach young kids just to be confident enough to be on stage, where it's like, you start with that part where you're like, I could talk on camera so easily, but you're like, okay, but like, am I actually doing the true lesson of like, whatever the improv is?
- [14:35]
Padma Lakshmi
Exactly.
- [14:36]
Jesse David Fox
Has anyone from your classes then become successful?
- [14:40]
Padma Lakshmi
No, because that's been very recent.
- [14:42]
Jesse David Fox
Got it.
- [14:42]
Padma Lakshmi
You know, they are booking stuff and it's always exciting to know that they got a guest role on, you know, SVU or whatever. But I mean, I will say this. You know. Yes. I don't have, you know, those jitters of being speaking in front of people. And that class is always like 15, 16 people. So that goes quickly for everyone. But my brain is not as quick. It's not. I have to have the humility to admit that as those young people. So that's why I also put myself back. You know, I really felt that I wasn't getting enough out of it, and I also wanted to try a different teacher. And. And so that's why I did it. And also, by the way, that was happening contemporaneously with us doing our shows both, you know, at Dynasty Typewriter and at the Bell House. And so what came out of that in improv was the place that I enjoyed most was being the monologist, or the monologist, as I call it. I don't know why they say monologist, but, you know, I had done that at ASCAT, I want to say, 12 years ago. And then I also did at Second City and then, you know, Rat Scraps, and I've been on a few of those places more than once. And I've done other improv shows, and I like improv. It's the Brooklyn Comedy Fest. But what I like the most is telling stories. And that's when. And it was actually a combination of you and my teacher, who I'd had more than once and had way back when or whatever, and she said, you should really do stand up. She did. She said, you're funny. And one time she said, you know, you're not supposed to make stuff up. I said, I didn't. And then she was like, you know, you're supposed to just get the prompt from the audience. And I said, I did. And, you know, so she said, then you should do stand up. Because I think we've got a lot of misery in our lives in general. Even if you have a good life, there's a lot to be depressed about. And I do think when you're getting up on stage and you're holding people's attention or trying to, you should make them feel better, you should make them laugh or think or hopefully both.
- [16:51]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. You told Helen Rosner in the New Yorker, I don't care about being the most beautiful woman in the room. I want to be the funniest person in the room. Can you think of specific rooms or rooms where you were definitively the beautiful woman in the room and you wanted to be the funniest person or you knew you were the funniest person, but they saw you as the beautiful woman in the room?
- [17:11]
Padma Lakshmi
I think the latter. You know, I'm less beautiful now than I was when I was 27, and hopefully I'm funnier now than I was 27, too. And that's fine. I'll take that trade off any day of the week. But, you know, I think for a long time, I was lucky enough to be in many rooms with a lot of interesting people, and I was presumed to just be the arm candy of whoever I was with or, you know, some fluke had gotten me there. I was there because of how I looked, which probably was the case sometimes, you know, But I didn't want to be, you know, I know the people. I'm just speaking on behalf of my own taste and assuming everyone else has the same taste. I don't want to. I don't care if I'm hanging around with good looking people, because I know that's no accomplishment of their own. It certainly wasn't an accomplishment of mine. Now, at 55, I try and preserve my looks and exercise and all that shit, but I mean, truly, I am attracted to people who make me laugh and I want to be around them. And when I have dinner parties at my house, it's to facilitate that environment. You know, I try to surround myself also with talented, interesting people as much as I can. Because life is like tennis. Playing with someone who's better than you makes you. Improves your game.
- [18:37]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah.
- [18:38]
Padma Lakshmi
And so that was also the appealing part of doing the shows with you is just to get to be in proximity to all these people that I admired.
- [18:50]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. When you were on 30 Rock in 2009, they had you say, men always tell me I'm very funny. And then you tell a joke, which is you say, knock, knock. And Alec laughs, making fun of that. The idea of essentially what we're talking about. Do you remember filming that and how you approach it? Cause you are funny in that scene. Like that is.
- [19:09]
Padma Lakshmi
I don't remember how I approached it. I do remember, you know, whatever you think of Alec Baldwin, and there's lots of things in his life to think about. What I will say about Alec Baldwin is that he was an incredibly generous and supportive actor. He also did his coverages first, which is when the camera's on him so that I could practice my lines and be comfortable. And, you know, as an actress, I've been on many sets. Not for a while, but when I was acting actively. And that is not always the case, especially when you're a guest player for the day or the week or the episode. There's always an energy of being, you know, in or out of that core group. And he made me feel very welcome, very supported. And I'll always remember that experience. And he's really funny. So it makes. Again, it makes you funny. And I don't remember even. I don't remember feeling like, oh, I nailed it, or I was funny at all. In fact, I kind of walked off set bewildered, like, did I do it? Do you want another take? You know, they're like, no, no, we're gonna move on but, you know, I have no idea. And I say the same thing to you when I walk off a set at Bell House, I'm like, did I say everything I was supposed to? Did that land? Because I black out.
- [20:32]
Jesse David Fox
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [20:33]
Padma Lakshmi
When I go on. And that happens not only when I'm doing standup or a guest role on 30 Rock. That happens in life when I'm on book tour. That happens a lot. It happens on podcasts. Like, I'm never gonna. I'm not gonna remember any of this. So I'm glad you're recording it, you know, that's better.
- [20:50]
Jesse David Fox
So you're funnier in your new show, America's Culinary cup, than you got to be in Top Chef, in my opinion. And so, one. You tell jokes, but there's a moment in the second episode where you ate something. I don't want to spoil what it is. And then, like, the two judges. The other judges were like, this is. And then you just go, oh, I know you're trying. It's pretty fucking good.
- [21:10]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah.
- [21:10]
Jesse David Fox
And at the end of the sort of commentary, and I was like. And they bleep it. I was like, this is gonna be on cbs. And I was just like, this rules. This is a different tone. Or you've got to be. And it's your show. Can you talk about what you wanted to present? How you had those conversations of, like, hey, just, you know, like, if I'm coming to this world, it's gonna be this version. I'm not gonna be sort of as proper as you especially were at the beginning seasons of Top Chef.
- [21:36]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, there's a few reasons for that. I am not the same person who started in 2006 or seven or whatever that was. I'm a different person. The world is a different place also. And I think I'm my fuller self now in general. And I'm also the boss. I mean, there are a lot of people who work very hard to make this show with me that I also. I rely on for counsel. You know, my network executives, Gloria and Mitch, my showrunner Josh Silverman, my producing partner, Susan Rovener. All the clatter of gorgeous, talented producers who, again, I want their opinions, you know? Cause they're very valuable, and they come to the table with a different set of expertise than I could have. But at the end of the day, as I've grown into my own career, and I had no way of knowing this was the career I was gonna have, it's sort of ludicrous. There's no Way to plan for my life. I think I just felt like I'm gonna do it. I just felt that the genre also needed a breath of fresh air and not, you know, taking ourselves so seriously. And I didn't wanna do that with myself. Like, I don't need to prove that I'm an authority of anything. I'm not pretending to be a chef. I' you know, I'm a home cook. I hopefully do television shows that people like, and that's it. You know, I don't want to be a chef. I don't want people to think I know everything. And I also see myself as the audience's representative. I don't see myself as sort of this lofty judge on high. I have two people who are very well respected on either side of me to take that role. I feel like I should be the one that the viewer is living vicariously through. And, you know, sometimes you say stupid shit. You say what happens. And, of course, you know, we have to bridge the gap between what's normally on CBS and who I normally am. And we've tried to do that. I think hopefully if we get, you know, Touchwood a second season, we'll be better about that. We. We have so much of me being weird and insane and just saying shit off the cuff that is on the cutting room floor that had no chance of making it in there. You know, I have a lot of heartfelt conversations with S and P Standards and practices. And CBS is network. It's not anything I've had to ever deal with. And so, you know, so it's a learning curve. I mean, there were a lot of things that I said that were way more off color than that.
- [24:24]
Jesse David Fox
You know, it's how a person would talk if that was the case. It was just. You just. I've not seen. I watch all these shows. People don't say stuff like that. They have to be so reverent all the time about everything that's happening, even though it's a food.
- [24:37]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah. And I think that's unreal.
- [24:38]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [24:39]
Padma Lakshmi
And so this, you know, this is supposed to be reality television. And it's very. You know, much of it is not real. So in that I really did want to just be my normal, full self there. And, you know, I have, as, you know, no poker face and no. No discretion. So, you know, I knew that it was a heavily edited show. I knew I was gonna look at every edit. And I think that's also something that very, very much encouraged and helped me to do that. Because if it didn't work. And there was a lot of shit that didn't work. We were just cutting it out. I think, you know, next season, if we have the budget, you know, I wouldn't mind hand picking somebody to help me gauge that, because I have so many things that I'm doing. I have my producer in one ear. I have a director in this ear. I want to be present and listen to not only my judges, but the chefs who've cooked their hearts out. And I'm thinking of lighting and how is this gonna cut? And are we saying enough? The audience understands there's a lot of things going on. Luckily, I do have seven voices in my head in my own life, so I'm used to it. But I want to have somebody who's bringing that out more, not only for me, but also Wylie and Mike. Because the thing that people don't know about those two is that they're really funny. And we didn't have room. I mean, I'm still in the process of editing, you know, the second half of the show with my producers. But there's so much funny shit that got said in that elevator as we're closing the door that we don't have time for. And, you know, it's sad. Cause that's not what the show is about. And CBS doesn't really have backend credits that roll, but I wish we had that so that you could just see that blooper reel. Maybe you can the next day on streaming or something. There's a lot of funny stuff, and it just got worse and worse and worse. Or better and better and better. You know, Mike and Wylie, who are friends and know each other, but live on opposite coasts, had this bromance that blossomed, and there was all kinds of stuff. They're also really funny and deadheady, and so they're like. They had a lot of puns, and we just don't have room for that.
- [26:49]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people want to see close ups
- [26:51]
Padma Lakshmi
of my dream is that, you know, like RuPaul's Drag Race or whatever, we can have an ancillary secondary show that just has all of the weird bits in it, you know, sort of like pieces, you know, that's so funny.
- [27:03]
Jesse David Fox
I was like, this is a Little bit more RuPaul's Drag Race. Y. In little moments, you are the judge, number one. Like, there's moments in episode one where you have to make final decisions. And I was curious, like, if you can talk about when you started Top Chef, you've talked a little about Having a certain amount of imposter syndrome. Cause you're like, these are Chef Y chefs. And not just like, oh, these are Chef. These are like the names. Can you talk about if you have any memories of times sitting at these tables and feeling like, oh, I should not talk now, or I don't have a place here.
- [27:33]
Padma Lakshmi
Oh, constantly, constantly. There's a lot of differences that help me now. Not only that, you know, I'm creating the show and making these decisions with counsel, but ultimately, if I don't want it, it's not gonna be there. But it's also because there's only three of us. There's not four or seven of us. There are episodes where we do have, you know, guest judges and there's many of us. And part of my job as a host is to facilitate other people talking. So that means there's only so many amount of minutes in a network show we have to cut to selling or whatever. And thank you, Dawn Powerwash, who gave me a million dollar check, no questions asked, which was great. I mean, literally on the fact that I was having a new show and I had a little deck, like a PowerPoint presentation, we emailed them. So thank you to Dawn. But I think at first when it came out, television was different and they wanted something very intimidating and imposing and serious and authoritative that would sort of raise the tension and make them shake in their boots. But that's not this show. This show is about well known chefs who have been accoladed, who have been in business for a long time, who are really good at what they do. I don't need to impress people with my food knowledge. I'm not pretending to be the expert on everything. And I think that's what also takes the pressure off enough having that imposter syndrome follow me around like a terrible shadow. It also happens to be a function of life and knowing more now than I did in, I hope so, you know, 2007. And also a lot of male chefs who are decorated veterans of the industry, like, really have an ego. And I think they at the time were just like, well, who is she to? You know? And now I don't think people feel that way, you know, or if they do, you know, then, yeah, I mean, they're the ones who look like the asshole, you know. I think you saw that also on tv.
- [29:42]
Jesse David Fox
Yes.
- [29:43]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah.
- [29:43]
Jesse David Fox
You can tell. Yes. As a fan of Topshop, I felt like I could tell when you were annoyed at Tom for him being too much of a, like, can't getting out of his chef Way, like, ultimately being like, this must be rewarded because these follow these rules of a chef's value system, and you just do not care about said value system. And it's nice in this.
- [30:05]
Padma Lakshmi
But here's why, you know, not that at times he may not have had valid points. It's because I don't think that diners look at it that way. Like, nobody ever said, wow, the knife cuts on this dish are so great. Like, look at that brunoise. You know, like, we notice it. And on America's Culinary cup, we'll give points for it. It's called technique. But. But the audience doesn't give a shit. You know, I mean, no restaurant goer or diner has ever left a Yelp review saying, you know, the night cuts were sloppy.
- [30:37]
Jesse David Fox
And as herself, I had a four star experience.
- [30:39]
Padma Lakshmi
Yes.
- [30:40]
Jesse David Fox
Well, it's also like, it's also nice watching a food show where you want the food to be spicier. Right? There's no note being like, well, so for an audience, the general audience, this might be. It's like the goal is to cook how you would cook. And it's like, I don't think I've seen that on a food show. Really.
- [30:54]
Padma Lakshmi
Here's why. What I want to do with this show is really celebrate regional American cooking. Yes. I want a kick ass, successful show. I don't really make a lot of money unless it's syndicated everywhere. Full disclosure, but beyond a good successful show that people love, I'm looking to create an institution, a new American institution that is as prestigious and sought after by people in that industry as the Oscars are, or the Grammys are, or Wimbledon is. Which is why we wanna make sure we equip our kitchen and these chefs with every possible toy they could want.
- [31:36]
Jesse David Fox
You said when he passed that Anthony Bourdain really helped you with imposter syndrome when he was on Top Chef. Can you share any memories from what he was like?
- [31:44]
Padma Lakshmi
I mean, Anthony also had his own evolution, you know, and when he first came on, he was sort of this bad boy chef. And then, you know, I knew him. I wasn't close to him, but I knew him somewhat well for 20 years. And, you know, we also have very dear friends in common in, you know, our publisher Dan Halpern and, you know, and Eric Riper and stuff. So I saw an evolution in him too, once he had children, you know, and. And so he was really. He became a softer Tony that was still, you know, still who he is, still swashbuckling, still sort of irreverent. And not afraid to say whatever he wanted to, but he became somebody who is more encouraging of different kinds of expertise and intelligence. And I think in the course of doing his job and where he really found himself was traveling the world. And you know, if you look at that show, it's basically B roll. It's, you know, Tony having a great time wherever he went and he wrote that show in the voiceover and he's such a great writer, you know, And I think that also was something he found in the second half of his life, you know, and I'm happy for him that he found that because he also demonstrated to me. And, you know, I think about that, I think about how the he was really himself and had the humility to saying, I'm learning along with you, the more he had success. And I think the one thing that Tony did was get over his ego and understand that where true growth came for him and his audience and his work was somewhere else besides being this kind of hard nosed chef. And I think the travel helped with that. And I think seeing him as an example and having him encourage me helped me to do that. And I mean, if you look at Taste the Nation and you look at Tony's, you know, different, whatever they were called, they were always kind of the same show. They're very different. Which is why, you know, you can have me, Stanley Tucci, Kamau Bell, Tony Vordain. Who am I missing here? Guy Fieri. You're gonna have all of. And Lisa Ling, even you would have been here. And then unfortunately, you know, me and Lisa are the only women in that group. But you can have us all go to the same city and even visit the same restaurants and the episodes would be completely different. And that is great.
- [34:22]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. I remember when you were filming the show, you're talking about how you weren't, you know, before you were not sure if you wanted to get back in sort of food competition. And you.
- [34:30]
Padma Lakshmi
I didn't.
- [34:31]
Jesse David Fox
And you were talking about not.
- [34:31]
Padma Lakshmi
Not sure. I really didn't.
- [34:32]
Jesse David Fox
Sorry. You specifically said you did not want to. But then you're talking about how much fun you're having and partly it was how much control you had over the show. And then you're talking about like, I stocked the kitchen or whatever.
- [34:43]
Padma Lakshmi
Well, no, no, I like you. You chose. I chose a very, very skilled. No, I chose a very skilled culinary producer named Mary, who is a badass. And she worked under Joel Robachon for years. She's a chef herself. She went to UC Berkeley. Very, very thoughtful person. She did the pantry. And then I checked her work, and I went through the pantry with a fine tooth comb because I'd had the experience years after years of chefs complaining about what was there, what wasn't there, whatever. And I wanted to make sure that we had not only a lot of variety of ingredients, but specialty ingredients that were germane to those chefs backgrounds and a lot of different ethnic ingredients, for lack of a better word, and fresh ingredients. And to Mary's credit, I did not have to correct 98% of anything. And there were things that I objected to that she had in there, like, you know, ready made curry paste, which I was like, I don't know about this, but she's like, they can still, you know, church it up. But I'm like, yeah, you know, I let it slide, you know, but for the most part, you know, she let me be clear. She did the work. I just checked her work.
- [36:01]
Jesse David Fox
You seemed. Was that something that you felt Top Chef did not. They had obviously had tons of stuff, but they did not think about, like, make sure to have every possible ingredient certain cuisines might need.
- [36:13]
Padma Lakshmi
No, I think that, you know, the show, which has been on so long, and of course, I don't know what's happened in the last, you know, three years because I haven't been there. The show grew and evolved too, you know, as did culinary life in America and in the chef world. So, you know, there were. There were all sorts of things that were improved upon and made better and changed depending on where we were, you know, in the country and stuff. So it's not so much that it's. I think that's more a function of whether you are where you're shopping also, you know, and look, Top Chef, I want to be clear. Top Chef is a house I also help build, and I have no desire to tear that house down. I'm very proud of helping to build that huge legacy. And I just wanted to do things that were reflective of my view of the world, and hopefully that resonates with other people. And by the way, I didn't do this also on my own. I checked my work, too, every step of the way with a lot of very esteemed chefs from all over the world who I trusted and knew had a whole body of knowledge I didn't have, and certainly practical knowledge I didn't have. So I relied heavily on a lot of chefs that I had built relationships with to say, does this ring true to you? Does this feel odd? Does this. Is this kosher? You know, all those things I just know what I want in the kitchen, and so I wanted it there. And then I just know what chefs need because of the feedback that we've gotten.
- [37:59]
Jesse David Fox
How do you approach being a boss? How has that evolved?
- [38:03]
Padma Lakshmi
How do I approach being a boss? I think I don't. I don't think of myself as the boss. I think of myself as the one who's responsible for any mistakes that happen, and I don't want them to be from my side of the street. You know, I just. I think it's been very frustrating for me when I've worked with people who haven't known what they want, and I try to be very specific in communicating what my vision is, and I'm happy to be challenged on that and taught something that's a better way. I also think half your work is done for you when you gather the best people you can and then let them do their job. So, you know, like, I don't know what lens to use, but I know who does. And that's actually, I think, the next evolution of my own development. I think I would like to shadow DP and just literally wear sneakers and be a silent gopher or focus puller, if anyone will let me pull anything. But, you know, other than my back. But, you know, I think that's an important part of my education. As I become, you know, as I get more experience as a filmmaker and auteur, I think that is a big place I need to fill my education. But I knew what I wanted. I was very clear, and I really knew how I wanted the set to look. I didn't want any. I didn't want it to look like a game show. I didn't even want it to look like a reality show. I wanted it to be pure. And I don't know if that's boring.
- [39:46]
Jesse David Fox
No.
- [39:46]
Padma Lakshmi
Like, I don't know. You know, I guess the audience numbers will tell me, but I think.
- [39:51]
Jesse David Fox
Well, the thing is, like, the thing that as a person who's followed your career, and I was thinking about that. I was thinking about your career, and I was thinking about even you pursuing standup in the show. I was thinking about the idea of, like, being in control and having control over things. And there's a quote from Marc Maron, who says people become comedians to control the way in which people laugh at them.
- [40:10]
Padma Lakshmi
Oh, that's a good way to say it. Yeah.
- [40:13]
Jesse David Fox
Does that resonate to you? Do you feel like you had memories where you did not feel in control of how people.
- [40:18]
Padma Lakshmi
Oh, yes, yes. For years. For years, I had no control of the narrative of my own life in the public, in the media, you know, thank you, New York Post and Daily Mail. But I, you know, I think that changed for me 10 years ago when I wrote the memoir. And that was gonna say that was an excruciating experience. I mean, that was more excruciating than stand up because it was a five
- [40:45]
Jesse David Fox
year excruciating experience because you started, not this. You didn't go into it to write a memoir. Right. You went into it like, I'll write a self help book about like how to be whatever.
- [40:54]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah, not, not at all as a memoir. It was supposed to be a healthy eating book. And then I just, you know, I was always going to be really personal, using the details of my own life to illustrate my philosophy about food and eating. And then I just kept going deeper and deeper and deeper. And, you know, as I said earlier, the, my publisher, Dan Halpern, who I've now published three books with, was very encouraging of that. And I just, sometimes I would tell him, like, Dan, I don't know what I'm writing here. Like, I'm lost in the forest of my own words, which happens a lot in standup too now. And he would just say, like, look, just keep writing. You just write. We'll chisel what doesn't need to be there out, but you just, just keep going. And I did that literally for five years. And in those five years, my life changed a lot. I lost a partner to brain cancer, I had a child. All these kinds of things happened. And so the book really evolved that way. But I also think now, you know, the one great thing about writing a memoir is that you can actively out yourself. And so there's nothing anybody can say about me that I haven't said about myself. And I also am less thin skinned now. Yeah, you know, it doesn't affect me in the same way.
- [42:10]
Jesse David Fox
Not to get into it, but there was a. Four months ago, there was a rumor about you dating a former Top Chef contestant. And I don't, I don't need to endorse the rumor, but as you said, there was a time where your dating life was like very much in the news and talked about a lot. And I think it was a time probably before this version of the Internet. There's probably a lot of young people who did not know that you've had all this sort of negative experience. Was that triggering for you when that happened or did you find it just funny?
- [42:36]
Padma Lakshmi
Well, because I have, you know, again, bigger sense of humor about myself. Now, and it didn't affect me at all. You know, I found it amusing, but also because it was largely positive and, you know, not out of the realm of possibilities. So I found it charming. And, you know, this is a person I love anyway, you know, in one sense, maybe not in the sense that everyone else thinks, but. So what was I gonna do? Be like, no, that's not true.
- [43:10]
Jesse David Fox
How dare you speculate about that?
- [43:12]
Padma Lakshmi
No, not at all. Like, if I, you know, if I was leaning that way, that would be a great person, you know, but, you know, so it doesn't affect me as much. I also think, you know, for a long time, whether it was on social media or Internet or whatever, it did bother me because there was so much focus on my personal life rather than my professional life. And I was frustrated about that. And it made people think that I didn't have a professional life because all that you heard about was this other stuff, when the truth is I'm doing the same thing I'm doing now. I was doing that in 2000. Like, my first cookbook came out in 1999. My first food show on the Food Network came out in 2000. You know, so.
- [44:03]
Jesse David Fox
And you were writing articles like.
- [44:05]
Padma Lakshmi
Right. I was a journalist. You know, I mean, I wasn't hard hitting. You know, you're a writer. But I was. I, you know, had a syndicated column in the New York Times. I was writing for Vogue, I was writing for Harper's Bazaar at a style column there. And, you know, people don't. Nobody reads bylines, Nobody cares. You know, it's sort of like they just want to see the picture.
- [44:24]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, the book is, is. It's really a stunning book. And I think there's a thing that you're really amazing at in it where you have such a sense memory for food and you're able to then sort of have that as sort of a tactile, baseless. But then you have all these ideas and you're able to tie it in, and then you'll use your history and then your sort of family history and then sort of your political points and.
- [44:45]
Padma Lakshmi
Are you talking about the memoir or this new book? Okay, the memoir.
- [44:47]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, you also do it in the new book. But I was thinking about the memoir because I read it for this and there's a part that was really moving because I've had your kumquat chutney before and it becomes a sort of mythic thing. I was wondering if you could tell a version of sort of how that recipe meant so much to you at a time and connected you so much to your mother and your grandmother.
- [45:07]
Padma Lakshmi
I think food for a lot of us is so compelling and important, even if you're not in the food business in any way, because it follows us throughout our lives and it is a sensorial experience that is connected to your emotional life because of the biological reason of the emotional memory being stored in the amygdala and the olfactory sense being stored in the. Or activated from the amygdala. And so those things are very close in physical proximity in your brain. That's why you can eat a cookie or smell some cologne and it immediately transports you back to when you have those first experiences and the emotions tied to. I was going through a very public and messy divorce and I was. I had. I was living among all these cardboard boxes in a hotel that is now very swanky. But at the time I was living at it, it wasn't. They just gave you long term leases and they had a kitchen and it's called the Surrey Hotel. And I used to call it the Sorry Hotel because a lot of people who were getting divorced in New York City, I've met actually a lot of men that have stayed there, but I stayed there for a. Yeah, exactly. Actually. Thank you. And so my mother, in an effort to cheer me up, sent me a box of kumquats and we had this giant. We still do. My mother's house had this giant kumquat tree and I grew up eating them. And I think they're kind of a rare fruit unless you grow up where lots of citrus is grown. This is in California. And I used to chomp on them. She used to try to get rid of them and make whatever she could. And so she sent me this box of. Of these beautiful kumquats. And you know, I didn't feel like cooking. I didn't feel like eating. Cafe Boulud is in the ground floor of the Surrey Hotel. And Gavin Cason, who's cooking there, wonderful chef, used to send me up trays and trays of beautiful desserts, you know, and just to cheer me up, and God bless Daniel Boulud, because at different points in my life, he doesn't probably even know this, but, you know, he has been an instrument of solace and pleasure with the foods that he's given me. I mean, he used to also send home foods that my ex partner liked when he had cancer and didn't feel like eating and stuff from Danielle. So I just didn't want to eat. And it's very Rare in my life that I've suffered from a lack of appetite. It's one of the reasons I'm good at my job.
- [47:41]
Jesse David Fox
But.
- [47:41]
Padma Lakshmi
And, you know, she sent me this kumquat box, and it just fell on my head because I had sort of stuck a bag of it up on the highest box. I mean, there was stuff everywhere, and I just thought, okay, I have to do something with this, and I could make this very quick chutney. And it just brought me back to life, you know, it just reminded me of other parts of my life that were happy, that were full. And it kind of woke me up out of my super. Not only emotionally and mentally, just sort of like saying, get over yourself. A lot of people get divorced. Just walk through this lake of shit and you'll get to the other side. But also with my palate, you know, it woke up my taste buds. I could make that as spicy as I wanted to. And it reminded me that there was a whole world of lovely flavor and pleasure out there and that I'm in a very privileged place and I should take advantage of it.
- [48:38]
Jesse David Fox
You mentioned the acknowledgment of the book that you had a sort of late in her life mentorship with Nora Ephron.
- [48:43]
Padma Lakshmi
Yes.
- [48:44]
Jesse David Fox
Can you share any memories?
- [48:45]
Padma Lakshmi
I mean, Nora and I. I met her because Susan Sarandon took me to an Oscar party, you know, and I was introduced to her there. And then, you know, it was already within a couple of years or two, three years, if I remember correctly, of when she would pass away. And I have always loved her writing, and. And I asked her if I could take her to lunch. And we would always eat at Marea, and it was closer to where she lived. And, you know, we would meet, I want to say, four times a year, not that much, you know, and it was also at a very difficult point in my life. I was being sued for full custody of my child. I was nursing somebody who was dying of cancer. I was trying to deliver this, you know, memoir, or now memoir. There was a lot of shit going on. And she was, you know, was wonderful because she was someone I very much admired and looked up to. She was also someone who's gone through her own set of shit in life, and she was very encouraging. And I've been very lucky to have quite a few really spectacular, intelligent older women who have mentored me in my life, which is why I try to make it a point to also mentor young writers. You know, Priya Krishna, who writes for the New York Times, is a great example of someone who's been a mentee of mine for a decade. And clearly now she doesn't need any mentorship. In fact, she's, you know, one of the. One of the judges on the show. I think I can say that. If not, oh, well, for one episode. But anyway, so, you know, she. She would tease me and ask me how stuff was going, and I would tell her I didn't know what I was doing and everything, but she said, oh, honey, if you did, I would, you know, kind of question you. But she called it Love Loss and what We Ate because she had adapted as a stage show with her sister Delia, a tiny picture book called Love Laughs and what I Wore, and she had adapted that for Broadway. And so she would tease me. And the working title in her head for my book was that. And then it just stuck. I couldn't think of a better title. And I was happy that it was bequeathed to me from Nora. And I didn't know she was sick. I know her son. I didn't know she was sick. I learned about it just like everybody else did. And once I found that out, I was even more grateful that she still
- [51:09]
Jesse David Fox
made so much time for you.
- [51:10]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah.
- [51:11]
Jesse David Fox
When the book was coming out, you were saying, hoped your daughter would read it one day.
- [51:15]
Padma Lakshmi
She still hasn't.
- [51:16]
Jesse David Fox
She's now reading age, though.
- [51:17]
Padma Lakshmi
Yes, I keep telling her that, too. She, you know, she reads plays and scripts and whatever she has to for her social studies and English classes.
- [51:27]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, I guess that's fair. She does have homework.
- [51:29]
Padma Lakshmi
I forget that she has a lot of homework. Yeah, she's at a very demanding art school and she usually doesn't come home until 6, and then she's got to eat and she has. That's her excuse, anyway. I mean, her peers. I know a few of her peers have read it, but she has not read it.
- [51:46]
Jesse David Fox
What do you. She will at some point, and then you can listen to it.
- [51:49]
Padma Lakshmi
You know, I told her that. She's like, yeah, like, I need to hear you. Yeah, she's listening to me bitch at her all day about cleaning her room.
- [51:56]
Jesse David Fox
It is very much your voice entire time. But assuming she will, what do you hope, like, when you're. What parts are you most excited for her to read?
- [52:05]
Padma Lakshmi
I'm most excited for her to read about all of the parts before she was born and even before I, you know, the first 40 years of my life were really difficult. I, you know, had a very big car crash that influenced everything about our lives, me and my family. I had a very rare Illness that had me in and out of the hospital most of my adolescence. I didn't know my father. I didn't see either of my parents from the age of two and four. So, you know, considering where I'm at now, my life is golden. Like, I'm so glad I came out the other side. And so she only knows the version of mommy that, you know, has hair and makeup, that lives in this big house that, you know, people want to take pictures with when we're at the market. She doesn't know the Padma that was on financial aid, that only ate spaghetti for the first six weeks of every semester because I could only afford a bag of onions, a bag of pasta, and Kraft Parmesan cheese. You know, she doesn't know about that. I want her to know about those parts. You know, I lived and grew up in such a totally different universe than she did. And having her also allowed me to have a great amount of empathy for my mother, who was also a single parent, but did not have anywhere near the resources that I had. My mother was a radiation therapy nurse at Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute. You know, she had a really, really tough life day in and day out. And so I think that was good for me, for motherhood. I'm hoping that when she does eventually read the memoir, at least the first half, that she, too, will have more empathy for her mother. Yeah.
- [54:03]
Jesse David Fox
As you know, your daughter, as you've said, is trying to. Her goal is to be an actress. She seemingly works for and singer, and she's working quite hard as considering what you've learned about the entertainment industry. What do you hope for her? What are you afraid of? What do you try to tell her?
- [54:17]
Padma Lakshmi
I want. I'm trying to cultivate a disposition in her of a person who is a creative or, you know, creative and an artist and generating. You know, she's equally passionate or maybe even more passionate about being an actor. I always try and encourage the music and the songwriting because she's an incredible songwriter. You know, of course I'm biased, but she's not sentimental, which is great. And even the songs she wrote when she was seven and eight are not sentimental. So that is something she can always do, even if she writes songs for other people. And that also will give her an authorship of her art. So I'm pushing that. But what I want her to remember is that it's not about numbers on social media, it's not about magazine covers, and it's not about the screenings or premieres that I sometimes take her to, because I Think she'd enjoy it. Now I say things, say yes to things that I really don't want to go to, but I know she'll love. But I want her to really try and block all that out and consider her work as serious as a surgeon would.
- [55:30]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [55:31]
Padma Lakshmi
Or, you know, a forklift driver who, you know, know it's a dangerous job. So that's what I want for her. I think because she's also somebody who's really charismatic and gregarious that I don't. I worry that she's going to get distracted by that stuff. You know, I took her social media away sort of in late stage pandemic because I saw it wasn't having a great effect and I didn't know any better. She was a single, she's the only child, so she didn't see another child for four or five during that really dark period of pandemic. And then when we realized what it was like, her father and I made the decision to take it away from her. And she still bristles at that decision, which she feels is really unfair. You know, she just had her 16th birthday, so she also was like, I'm 16 now, now, and I say no for as long as I can rule any part of your life, I'm going to say no. And I hope that by the time she is 18 that I have brainwashed her enough to where she won't want social media because think about all the great actors they don't know. It's not like Angelina Jolie is posting or I don't know if Jessica Chastain is. To be honest, I think she might have one.
- [56:45]
Jesse David Fox
She does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [56:46]
Padma Lakshmi
But like Jacob Elordi or, you know, whoever. I just think that stuff is really easy to get distracted about and I don't want, I want some safe space for her where it's really just about honing her skill.
- [57:01]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [57:01]
Padma Lakshmi
But she's a smart girl.
- [57:02]
Jesse David Fox
So hopefully it's so funny because it's not unlike all parents version of that, but it's also like if you go on it, you're gonna get too famous too fast for not what you actually want to be doing. And Hollywood loves nothing more than to pay you for what they want you to do and not pay you for what you want to do.
- [57:20]
Padma Lakshmi
Exactly. And also, by the way, you know, I've been a little more lenient about having her on my social media now than I used to be. I'm, you know, I'm less protective of her, but that's also a concern. And That's a function of also giving her some taste of it because she doesn't get to post on her own stuff. But you're right, like as an actor, you want to be able to morph into the roles you're having. You're lucky enough to get and not be looked at as one thing. And because she's attractive, she will get pigeonholed. It's worse for women than men. And I know what that's like.
- [57:59]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. The reason we know each other partly is that in the last 10 years, partly because of your book, but you just like have been wanting to speak up, right? You just talk. You are like. You'll stay your opinions regardless of sort of. You'll name names. I think there's a lot of people in Hollywood who would not encourage. They want a vague statement about how vaguely you support all things or you want everyone to love each other or whatever the version of it is. And you have chosen not to do that for a variety of issues. And I was curious how one evolves from. Were there times where you were encouraged or felt you should not speak up and then how have you then learned you wanted to or you should, or if it's your place or if you don't, no one will?
- [58:42]
Padma Lakshmi
Well, I think a lot of the issues that I do speak up about are very personal to my own experience. And as hard as a earlier life or, you know, my first 40 years, let's say, as hard as that as my life has been, I've also been incredibly fortunate and I'm really lucky to be able to do the things that genuinely interest me and stuff. So I feel like it's a way to almost pay it forward, you know, and to sort of pass on that karma. That's part of it. Another part of it is that I just don't think the world is a fair place. And I don't think anything I say is going to make it fair. But I do think I have a debt to pay to the universe for giving me the opportunities that I have. You know, my mother could have still had a tough marriage with my father, but maybe she wouldn't have been if she wasn't educated. I would have still been in India stuck in some slum. Millions of people are, you know, luckily we were middle class. Luckily there was a medical personnel shortage in America when she needed to come here, et cetera. But also, you know, one of the reasons I was also, I had a great example in my ex husband who, you know, spoke out against free speech. And also perhaps one can make an argument that he was also thrust into that position because of what happened to him. But, you know, I think I learned by example. I. To give credit where credit is due. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I have, there have been times when I have been told to cool it, you know, because of people who pay me.
- [60:28]
Jesse David Fox
Got it?
- [60:29]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've tried to. I've been offered jobs also that were very lucrative that I have turned down because one of the conditions of accepting that very lucrative job, which I could really use that many, if nothing else, to, you know, donate to the aclu. Planned Parenthood, I didn't take because it would involve me stepping down from my position as an artist ambassador at the ACLU or, you know, turning my social media off and turning it into something very sort of generic and non. But, you know, we know who I am now. Like, even if I did that, the truth is, is you can google all the op EDS I have done for the Washington Post and the New York Times or whatever.
- [61:17]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, I was thinking about, I was looking back and the timeline is kind of wild, which is since you did that tweet about Louis ck, We got in touch. We planned a show like six weeks later. In that interim, you write the piece about the Brett. During the Brett Kavanaugh here. He was also in that same two week span. You come on stage, the first thing you say is, fuck Louis CK.
- [61:35]
Padma Lakshmi
Yeah.
- [61:35]
Jesse David Fox
First time you ever stand on a stand up stage and you say this, where. Where does that sort of righteousness live in? You sort of like, how did you.
- [61:43]
Padma Lakshmi
I think that righteousness comes out and I hate identity politics, I really do. But it comes out from being a brown woman in a white male Hollywood. I think, you know, it comes out again because of just the unfairness of it all. And it's also a reaction to the times I'm living in. I haven't always been that way. We know this, but when President Trump, the first time around made that tweet, I remember it very, very well. It was on Friday and he said, well, if it was so bad, why didn't she report? And all these women were tweeting, time's up. And me too, right? And saying that they had had their experience. And I did that too. I was happy to be that group of people who said, but wait a minute. And then I went to bed and it didn't sit well with me. What happened to me was really serious and life altering and really just affected the way that I moved in the world. It deserved more than a tweet. And so I work on immigration rights for the aclu, but I also work on women's rights. I've picketed in front of McDonald's headquarters and gone to the Supreme Court and stuff. And so I called up Jessica, who is my rep at the aclu, and I said, I'm thinking about doing this. I don't know what I'm going to say. I've never spoken about this. What do you think? And it's really a credit to Jessica Weitz, who was very supportive and very tender and very instrumental in encouraging me to do it. And honestly, I didn't even know until Monday morning if I would ever publish it. And then I did publish it and I went to bed like I didn't leave the house for three whole days. And the first time I left the house was when I went to the gym. And I was shaking. You know, I literally was shaking because, mind you, I never shared that with my husband. I never shared that with my therapist, and I never shared that with my mother when it happened. And I had been carrying around this thing since I was 16 years old. And by this time, you know, I was well into my 40s and it was really tough. I don't know if I would do it today knowing what I knew then, because I didn't know that there was going to be this very vulnerable and emotional fallout for me. Psychically. It wasn't anything anybody else did, you know, it was my choice. And I walked to the gym and I met this woman who just came up to me and she said, you know, I want to tell you that I read your piece because a guy I went to college or I think that, no, it wasn't at the gym. Somebody just came to tell me that they appreciated it. But I was taking a train because I also was going to Boston to give a talk at mit, you know, because we have a endometriosis research, a gynecopathology research center that we co launch anyway, and I was really shaky about it. And I was waiting in line at Penn Station and a woman came up to me and she thanked me and she said, the reason I read your piece is because a guy I went to college with sent it to me along with an apology. And you know, I have been waiting for that apology for decades and never thought I would ever hear from this person or that I would get. And you know, it doesn't excuse what he does, but at least he knows what, you know, he has some idea of how Much what he did affects us. And I guess it affected him too. So that made me feel good. But every time somebody would come now it doesn't affect me. I mean, it does a little bit, but, you know, it was very difficult. It was more difficult after it came out than before it came out.
- [65:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [65:55]
Padma Lakshmi
And I even think the day it was coming out, I think I took it, my daughter, to the ballet. And I remember having to proofread the edits that the editors at the Op Ed made to it. And so my assistant printed it out, and I was getting my makeup done. Cause it was the opening of the opera. And I remember my makeup artist, Brigitte, I was crying as I read it. And she kept trying to patch me up, you know, And I was happy to have the opera or the ballet to go to, you know, at the Met, because that would mean I couldn't touch my phone. No one could talk to me. I'd just be sitting with my kid watching whatever we were watching. And it was really tough, which is why, you know, now that we're going through this Epstein stuff, I'm so in awe of all these women who've come out. And to be re. Triggered by all of this on a daily basis, you know, I'm triggered by it. And I never met Epstein or knew who he was. Every time I open my social media, and it's good that we're talking about it, but it's also painful. You know, whenever there is growth, whether. Whether it's in a person or in a culture, there is pain. When something grows, something has to break for something else to break through. And I'm hoping that that will be the case and that, you know, a lot of good will come out of this.
- [67:16]
Jesse David Fox
Does it feel like there's a different climate in terms of speaking up now this. This. This term than it was the first term. Have you noticed anything different? Do you feel any different?
- [67:26]
Padma Lakshmi
Yes and no. Yes. Yes. I think people feel more empowered to speak out because a lot of people have spoken out. But sadly, we've also become desensitized. And that is the point and goal of this administration, is to just do so many things that you don't know which to focus on. And there's no time to address any one malfeasance, for lack of better word, because there's so much of it.
- [67:59]
Jesse David Fox
In the All American Cookbook. You say working on Taste the Nation made you feel more American than ever. Can you talk about why that was and if that's still the case?
- [68:08]
Padma Lakshmi
Yes. I mean, you know, with everything with ice that's going on today. And even while I was filming Taste The Nation in 2019, that first season was when I was out on the road. You know, that was a reaction to the first Trump presidency and the Muslim ban and, you know, all these kind of weird selections of who gets to call themselves American. So there's a lot to be upset about. But when you travel, like you. It was chase. The Nation was basically one giant road trip.
- [68:37]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [68:37]
Padma Lakshmi
When you travel neighborhood by neighborhood or city by city, and you meet these people, Cambodian ex gang members. You know, Cambodian American ex gang members, dance teachers who are approving American from New Jersey or what, you know, I met people from all walks of life, and I cherish that experience. You know, Mark Burnett, I met him once a long time ago, and he said that when he first came to this country, he and his father did the same thing. Not for a TV show, but they traveled all over. And it really taught him about who America is. And I would say that is the same case for me. And it gave me hope. It made me feel much better about this country. Because on the ground, you know, away from sort of all this media Hype or Washington D.C. politics and all this sort of posturing and blowhardiness that both sides have, people are just people. And they're not thinking in lofty ideology. They're thinking, can I feed my kids? Can I get a raise? Is my car gonna work this winter? You know, how can I take care of my elders? And there are, you know, people say, like, I get this question a lot at, you know, public appearances, especially, like on book tour. You know, how do you keep your Indian values and stuff? Right. That's a big thing for immigrant Indian immigrants, like, you know, adhering to our Indian values. And, you know, my reaction to that is I think a lot of the values that we have as Americans do not rely on any ethnicity. They're more the same. And what I love about this country in its ideal, you know, it's far from ideal, and it is far from reaching a utopia that it reaches for, that it strains to get closer to is this fact of we are a body or a nation of people that is bound by a set of democratic values or principles as set out supposedly in the Constitution. And I think that's wonderful. I really think that that is very rare in the world because even even the Western European settlers or immigrants that came here, you know, a lot of white people who don't think like I do, think of those as, quote, unquote, real Americans but they're not. Unless you can call yourself a First nations descendant, you're not. By that rubric, you're not a real American either. But I think what's exciting is that you can be part of the American experience by bringing whatever is the best you have to offer. And in bettering your life, hopefully better the system or the culture and contribute to it. And the exchange is that you get to do so. There's no club. I mean, of course there's an all boys club, there's all kinds of fun. But you know, that promise is, I think, what makes America have any kind of cachet in the world. Because if you look at a foreign policy, you know, even as far as back as you want to, it's questionable at best. But I think in spite of that, the goodwill that America has in a, in the world is this sort of beacon of hope being the land that you two can share in. Yeah, and I think what's happening with ice and then I'll get off my soapbox. What's happening with ICE is really a shame because I feel that that kind of xenophobic thinking is shortsighted because you will not be able to run this country if only white people existed in it. You won't. It's too late. Yeah, sorry. You should have thought of that a long time ago, you know.
- [72:22]
Jesse David Fox
Fox Creative,
- [72:25]
Advertisement Voice
this is Advertiser content from IM's pet food. Hey, humans. My name's Hiro. I'm a cat. I'm here to give you a crash course on how we went from fierce hunters to the floofy friends you can't live without. Although, let's be honest, we could probably live without you. Around 10,000 years ago, humans started farming, which accidentally created a rodent hunting bonanza that meant full time employment and activity for us. Humans were like, okay, these guys are chill, they can see day. So unlike dogs.
- [73:05]
Jesse David Fox
Ew.
- [73:06]
Advertisement Voice
Sorry. We basically domesticated ourselves. We chose you. Fast forward to today. Some of us may not get as much hunting in and okay, I admit maybe we can get a little chonky, but you can help keep us healthy and active with I healthy weight cat food now available in stores and online.
- [73:30]
New Year, new me. Cute. But how about New Year, new money? With Experian, you can actually take control of your finances, check your FICO score, find ways to save and get matched with credit card offers, giving you time to power through those New Year's goals. You know you're going to crush start the year off right. Download the Experian app Based on FICO Score 8 model offers an approval not guaranteed. Eligibility requirements and terms apply subject to credit check, which may impact your credit scores. Offers not available in all states. See experian.com for details.
- [73:58]
Experian it's tax season, and at LifeLock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, will fix it, guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply.
- [74:30]
Jesse David Fox
So now it's time for our final segment, which is like a lightning round. But you don't have to answer the questions quickly or anything. It's just questions I repeat every episode. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary celebrity, living or dead, you're willing to share?
- [74:43]
Padma Lakshmi
Oh, yes. I was invited to the World cup of Cricket to cut some ribbon or something in the early 90s, and it was in Calcutta. And I went know nothing about cricket or don't remember from my childhood. And one of the only things I wanted to do was go and meet Mother Teresa. And so they took me with a group of people and my cousin, who was my date to meet Mother Teresa at the Sisters of Mercy orphanage. And I'll never forget the experience. It was off. It was a gully off of some, you know, neighborhood. And you walk these stairs, these cement stairs, and you go up and I. It's like a dream. I walked there, and in a room, there was probably like 30 nuns on their knees, kneeling on the floor, all dressed in white, singing a hymn at once. And it was so beautiful. I'm getting chills just thinking about it now. And I'm not Catholic. I was educated in the Catholic system, but I'm not Catholic, obviously, but. And then I met her, and I didn't realize how tiny she was. I also didn't realize that she had a club foot or some kind of, you know, weird way of walking. Maybe she had polio when she was young, I'm not sure. And she was so charismatic, Jesse. It was like meeting Nicole Kidman or, I don't know. I don't know who it would be. Like, the only other experience I've had like that is when I met Muhammad Ali at the dry cleaners. And, you know, those are my Two totems of, you know, sainthood slash pretty good big time stars.
- [76:20]
Jesse David Fox
What's the best time? This doesn't have to be stand up. What's the best time you've ever bombed? So, like the most glorious time you failed. It could be hosting, it'd be modeling, where it just sort of the worst version of you at a day at your job.
- [76:32]
Padma Lakshmi
When I was modeling, I used to model all the time for Sonia Rikiel and do all her Runway shows. And one time, you know, I got there was a sale at the outdoor market in the Bastille in Paris where I bought my groceries and they had a special. So I bought this giant bag of cashews and pistachios. And between the fitting and the actual show, I managed to gain six pounds and not fit into many of my clothes. And they had sort of pinned them and, you know, jerry rigged them and was not nice. And I. They kept saying, what happened to you? What happened to you? And I didn't even own a scale back then, you know, so that was a lesson for me.
- [77:16]
Jesse David Fox
What is the best advice you took or the worst advice you took? Didn't.
- [77:20]
Padma Lakshmi
Hmm. Okay. The best advice I took was when I was still making my living as a writer, as an actor, as a model, and I was just wetting my feet in that first show on the Food Network. And I think I just published my cookbook. But, you know, none of these one things would have made a living by themselves. And somebody said to me, just push against the open door, you know, don't try to decide who you are. Let the opportunities that do arise be made the most of. And I think that was a very useful. It's not what you want to do in life. And this took me a long time to learn. And I say this to other young women or men too. It's what you're good at. And sometimes you can't help what you're good at and you can't help what you're bad at.
- [78:12]
Jesse David Fox
What is one thing that is bad in general? This is new, but we're trying it out.
- [78:18]
Padma Lakshmi
See Trump, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon.
- [78:20]
Jesse David Fox
Great. What is one thing that is good?
- [78:26]
Padma Lakshmi
Comedy and laughter.
- [78:28]
Jesse David Fox
Thank you so much.
- [78:29]
Padma Lakshmi
Thank you.
- [78:33]
Jesse David Fox
That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland, writer, review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox and you can follow messiedavidfox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to good one from New York Magazine. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.