The Skeleton Twins Reunion With Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader

Summary

Good One: A Podcast About Jokes Episode Summary: The Skeleton Twins Reunion With Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader Release Date: January 28, 2025

Hosted by Jesse David Fox

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Introduction

In this special episode of Good One: A Podcast About Jokes, host Jesse David Fox delves into a heartfelt and humorous reunion with two iconic Saturday Night Live (SNL) alumni, Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader. Celebrating the 10th anniversary of their acclaimed film Skeleton Twins, the trio reminisces about their early days on SNL, the development of their enduring friendship, and the intricate process behind creating a film that seamlessly blends comedy and drama.

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Meeting on SNL

Craig Johnson, the director of Skeleton Twins, kicks off the conversation by introducing Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader, highlighting their significant contributions to SNL over seven seasons.

• Kristen Wiig recalls her initial connection with Bill: “I called you… because you had gotten the show” (03:06).

• Bill Hader shares his first encounter: “I think we actually didn't meet initially, but we had the same manager… Kristen was the babysitter” (03:23).

Their mutual support was evident from the start, with Bill offering Kristen advice during her auditions, fostering a bond that would later translate into their collaborative efforts on SNL and beyond.

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SNL Experiences and Sketch Development

The conversation shifts to their collaborative environment on SNL, where both Kristen and Bill discuss the dynamics of working together and the creative process behind developing memorable sketches.

• Bill Hader fondly remembers a sketch they developed together: “We did this thing called the Australians with Fred Armisen that no one liked” (10:08).

• Kristen Wiig adds humorously: “We were just putting Australian things into a bag… Off to New Zealand” (10:33).

They also mention the recurrent "Hollywood Dish" sketch, which became a favorite among audiences for its predictability and comedic timing.

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Transition to Skeleton Twins

As the panel progresses, Craig Johnson steers the discussion toward the making of Skeleton Twins. Kristen and Bill reflect on how their SNL experiences influenced their approach to the film, emphasizing the balance between humor and emotional depth.

• Bill Hader explains how he was approached to join the project while still on SNL: “I was still on SNL, and when we shot Skeleton Twins… I just read it and immediately was like, yeah, please” (22:09).

• Kristen Wiig shares the casting decisions and how Kristen was a perfect fit for the role after the success of Bridesmaids: “We just kind of crossed our fingers…and Kristen was like, oh, yeah, I would love to do it, but only if Bill wants to do it with me” (24:37).

Their collaboration was not just professional but also deeply personal, allowing them to portray familial bonds authentically on screen.

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Challenges and Triumphs During Filming

The panel delves into the emotional and logistical challenges faced during the filming of Skeleton Twins. Kristen recounts intense scenes that required genuine emotional responses, strengthening her bond with Bill.

• Kristen Wiig describes a memorable scene: “We just started crying. I felt bad that I said that” (28:49).

• Bill Hader speaks about overcoming personal anxieties related to the film’s reception: “Morning of the Sundance screening… total panic attack… my wife went… they were loving it” (32:06).

Their ability to navigate these challenges resulted in a film that resonated deeply with audiences and critics alike.

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Impact on Careers and Future Projects

Reflecting on the success of Skeleton Twins, Bill credits the film with opening doors for his acclaimed HBO series, Barry.

• Bill Hader states: “I don't think Barry would have happened if it wasn't for this movie” (39:20).

Both Kristen and Bill discuss how their experiences on Skeleton Twins have influenced their subsequent projects, allowing them to explore a wider range of characters beyond their comedic roots.

• Kristen Wiig expresses pride in Bill’s work: “It's like everybody's favorite show and your talent comes through in it” (46:09).

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Writing and Performing: Bridging Two Worlds

The discussion shifts to the interplay between writing and performing, highlighting the distinct yet complementary skills required for each.

• Bill Hader shares his struggles and growth as a writer: “I write pretty much every day now” (43:11).

• Kristen Wiig talks about overcoming self-doubt in her writing process: “I always gotta keep going because there were things that I've written that I've done, and I always thought it was terrible” (45:02).

Their dedication to honing their craft has allowed them to create nuanced and impactful performances that transcend traditional comedy.

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Memorable Moments and Anecdotes

Throughout the episode, Kristen and Bill share amusing anecdotes from their time on set and their personal interactions, adding levity to the in-depth discussions.

• Bill Hader recounts a hilarious mishap involving a microphone: “One time I spit an icy… I spit it in Kristen's face, and it was really cold” (12:46).

• Kristen Wiig describes the unpredictability of live performances: “We would try not to laugh as you both anticipated the fact that that moment would be coming” (12:24).

These stories not only entertain but also showcase the genuine camaraderie between the two performers.

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Conclusion

As the panel wraps up, Kristen and Bill express their gratitude for each other and the enduring relationships forged through their shared experiences. Their journey from SNL to Skeleton Twins and beyond exemplifies the power of collaboration, resilience, and the ability to blend humor with heartfelt storytelling.

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Notable Quotes

• Kristen Wiig on First Impressions: “She is one of the best, hands down” (06:06).
• Bill Hader on Comfortability: “You've seen each other hit huge highs, huge lows. So you're just incredibly comfortable with each other” (06:50).
• Kristen Wiig on Writing Challenges: “I start writing it. I'm like, this is terrible” (45:27).
• Bill Hader on Barry Connection: “I don't think Barry would have happened if it wasn't for this movie” (39:20).

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Good One: A Podcast About Jokes offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the lives and careers of Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader. Through candid conversations, memorable anecdotes, and reflections on their collaborative work, Jesse David Fox facilitates a rich and engaging discussion that honors their contributions to comedy and film.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to sections of the provided transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Sean Illing]

This week on the Gray Area, we're.

[Bill Hader]

Talking to Chris Hayes about how our.

[Jesse David Fox]

Digital devices have changed us.

[Bill Hader]

Now it's like traffic or air travel. Like, it's a thing that we all just experience as a bummer that you just talk to about. Like, doesn't it suck that, you know, we can't pay attention? The phones are always going off. Listen to the Gray Area with me, Sean Illing. New episodes every Monday, available everywhere.

[Kristen Wiig]

Hi, Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, sue and I go over the first weekend of unrivaled Caitlin Clark sitting next to Taylor Swift at a playoff game. And what's really behind the legislation that aims to bar transgender girls from school sports. Plus, we'll hear some responses to last week's Baker of the Week. And Sue's going to share her ice cream recipe. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

[Jesse David Fox]

Hello and welcome to Good One, a podcast about jokes. I'm your host, Jesse David Fox. It is a moment in time where everyone is marking and celebrating the 50th anniversary of SNL. So we thought we'd join in because you know who was on snl? Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig, two of the greatest cast members in the history of show, in my opinion at least. And that is who is on the podcast this week. Specifically, Bill and Kristen appeared at Vulture Festival this past November. Essentially, the peg was the 10 year anniversary of Skeleton Twins, director Craig Johnson's indie dramedy about two estranged siblings who reunite after a set of near tragedies. But really, it's a nice conversation between two SNL comedy friends who like and respect each other. The panel is moderated by my colleague Katherine Van Arendonk, who you might know from appearing on this podcast's best specials episodes. So here is Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig.

[Craig Johnson]

Hello. Please join me in welcoming my very special guests.

[Kristen Wiig]

I am, I am sure if we.

[Craig Johnson]

Should Vulture writer Katherine Van Arendonk. And it is my distinct pleasure to introduce Kristen Wiganbil Hader.

[Kristen Wiig]

Hello.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, hello. Hi.

[Craig Johnson]

It is such a joy to have you both here. I am so excited to talk about Skeleton Twins. It is, as you know, the 10th anniversary of this really wonderful movie. But before we get there, I wanted to start just by asking you both, like, how you first met, what your first memories of each other were.

[Kristen Wiig]

I called you.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, that's right.

[Kristen Wiig]

Because that's it. No, you had gotten the show.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah.

[Kristen Wiig]

And we had the same manager at the time. And I was about to audition. And I called you, right?

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. Actually the first time I met you, I think the first time, I don't think we actually didn't meet, but we had a manager. We had the same manager at the time, Naomi Odenkirk. And I was at her house and we were about to go to see some Groundling show and she goes, I'm waiting for the babysitter. Babysitter showed up.

[Kristen Wiig]

That's me.

[Bill Hader]

And so she was. I was like, hi. Hi. And then we just kept moving. Yeah. And then she came in, I think our fifth show. So I started SNL and like the fifth show in. Kristin came in and oh, it's the babysitter. I was like, the babysitter got it. Oh, man, it was rough. But then I remember I was writing a Vincent Price sketch and I was like, hey, do you know of any. Can you do any old school impressions? And she said, I can do Judy Garland. And I go, oh, what can you say to Judy Garland? And she went, you ever get the feeling that your hands are made out of sand? And I went to Seth Meyers office. I was like, that new girl is amazing. And he was like, yes, you're a new guy. What do you mean new girl? I'm like, I got five shows on her. I'm a vet. Well, I was like, that's so funny. I don't. Oh my God, you said that. And I was like, okay, so she's the funniest human on the planet.

[Craig Johnson]

So that was his first impression of you? What was your first impression of him?

[Kristen Wiig]

Well, because. Yes. Well, I auditioned for the show and then I never heard anything. And then the season started, so I figured I didn't get the job. And. And I knew Bill again from. From Naomi. And it's such a funny thing with, with SNL when the new people come out. And I was just kind of like blown away by Bill already. But I had seen some other stuff that he had done before that. And what had you seen? I can't remember now. It put me on the spot.

[Bill Hader]

We don't have to. We. We don't have to go into that.

[Kristen Wiig]

We don't have to go into that.

[Bill Hader]

I needed the money.

[Kristen Wiig]

Don't remember. Yeah. And we talked on the phone and he was so sweet and had great advice for me about, you know, when I auditioned. So I did feel like I had, you know, like a person there when I was there. And Yeah, I mean, you just watch those early shows and it's like, I think because we both did sketch comedy, so Much. I don't know. There was just a comfortability with him. And yeah, he's one of the best there is. She's one of the best, hands down.

[Bill Hader]

Well, it's nice you could be in scenes together and not. Yeah. The thing I always say about Kristen at snl, I was there. So for the seven seasons that we worked together, I can honestly say every table read, you know, 22 shows a season. So she did something different. Like every table read, she would do something and I was like, wait, you can do that too.

[Craig Johnson]

It didn't always work.

[Bill Hader]

No. She used to do an Italian guy that was like. The funniest thing was like. And I still do that voice in my parrot.

[Kristen Wiig]

Never saw the light of day.

[Bill Hader]

Anytime I find something I like, I go, oh, yeah. As this character that she did, she would go, oh, yeah.

[Kristen Wiig]

And I would like any shot of it getting on. Never any. I never was never told. Please bring that back.

[Bill Hader]

No.

[Kristen Wiig]

And I just killed.

[Bill Hader]

That is my favorite thing. Yeah. And then Thomas, that woman too. Thomas still do that. All right, 40 minutes left. This is so nerve wracking. I don't know if you guys can see it, but it's red letters. It's a red countdown.

[Craig Johnson]

Like, I think it's gonna be fine. I think we're gonna be okay.

[Bill Hader]

I'll take your word for it.

[Craig Johnson]

So it is hard to come in, like several weeks into a season. But he had given you advice. Do you remember what the advice was?

[Kristen Wiig]

Well, it was a lot about the audition because you hear stories and it's like you just. You get up there and you have five minutes and you may not hear anyone laugh. And the lights are on. They don't want you to go over five minutes and. But also, he said it in a very encouraging way. Yeah, it's really rough, scary because. And I don't do standup, so I don't have a lot of experience. Also doing stand up is, I would imagine is very different than just like doing a character like, out to no one that you can see by yourself. But I think just knowing that he had been through it, you know, again, same manager, we're gonna keep talking about her. I don't know. It was very comforting. And, you know, and then when I got there, talked to him about how it is to be there and. Because they don't really. There's no guidebook, there's no anything.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. They don't tell you anything.

[Kristen Wiig]

They don't tell you where to be. You just kind of have to like, follow everyone around and.

[Bill Hader]

And there's this whole elevator system there that makes zero sense that you have to go to one floor and transfer these other elevators and go down to another floor.

[Kristen Wiig]

It definitely got lost in that.

[Bill Hader]

No one told us that. I didn't know where food was. No one would tell us, go to Laura Michaels. Where's the food? He'd go, right. Hey, I'm thirsty. Can I get something to drink? And he go, no. I know it was a tough time, you know, but working there together, Kristen and I, we got a kind of a shorthand together over time. And I think there is a thing when you're working in that environment for so long that you are able to kind of fail in front of each other. You have each other's back. You've seen each other kind of eat it so many times. You've seen each other hit huge highs, huge lows. So you're just incredibly comfortable with each other. So that was the interesting thing about this movie, was that we're playing siblings, and it is. We have a very sibling relationship, you know, in life. So it's very. You know, it worked out.

[Craig Johnson]

So do you remember the first sketch that you developed either for each other or, like, together?

[Bill Hader]

We did this thing called the Australians with Fred Ormisen that no one liked.

[Kristen Wiig]

Did that air?

[Bill Hader]

I don't think it ever aired.

[Kristen Wiig]

Did it? It did.

[Bill Hader]

It did.

[Kristen Wiig]

Oh, even the premise will probably get it grown. But it was just.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, it was hilarious.

[Kristen Wiig]

It was me and Bill and Fred.

[Bill Hader]

And we were Australians packing for a trip.

[Kristen Wiig]

And that's. We were just putting, like, Australian things into a bag.

[Bill Hader]

Like, all right, one. Yeah. One can of Vegemite.

[Kristen Wiig]

One DVD of Muriel's Wedding.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. There's one Hugh Chickman doll. I was like, we got one pouch of kangaroo dodo, and there was a.

[Kristen Wiig]

Diorama of the Sydney Opera House.

[Bill Hader]

Huge, giant diorama of the Sydney Opera House.

[Craig Johnson]

That was.

[Kristen Wiig]

The entire sketch was putting items into a suitcase. And then we zipped it closed. And then we would say, all right, here we go. Off to New Zealand.

[Bill Hader]

Off to New Zealand.

[Kristen Wiig]

And then the credits ran upside down and back and down for, like, a.

[Bill Hader]

Good minute to the sound of a didgeridoo. So it was, like.

[Kristen Wiig]

For so long.

[Bill Hader]

It went on forever. And the sketch played to such silence that I remember I could hear the props rustling. I could hear, like, Kristen breathing. It was silence, and it just never.

[Kristen Wiig]

And Hollywood Dish was another one.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, yeah. We did a thing called Hollywood Dish. Yeah. Where I would spit stuff in Kristen's face.

[Craig Johnson]

I was gonna ask About Hollywood dish. It is one that you seem to have a hard time multiple times. I mean, I think three times that sketch there was a JLo one, a Taylor Swift one, and a Scarlett Johansson one.

[Bill Hader]

And it feels like you know better than us.

[Kristen Wiig]

Katy Perry. Oh, and I think we did Katy Perry. Am I wrong? I might be wrong.

[Craig Johnson]

I. What I remember mostly is that after the first time you had seen it, you knew at some point the next time you saw it, something was going to end up in your hair.

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah.

[Craig Johnson]

And then it was just watching both of you try not to laugh as you both anticipated the fact that that moment would be coming. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Hader]

One time I spit an icy. And we had never done it until on air. And I spit. Remember that? It was like an icee of, you know, whatever. Slurpee. Yeah, Slurpee.

[Kristen Wiig]

I don't know.

[Bill Hader]

Good night, folks. 34 minutes ago.

[Kristen Wiig]

34.

[Bill Hader]

And it was a slurry. Get into this. I forgot. Yeah, Slurpee. And I spit it in Kristen's face, and it was really cold. And I heard her go. And I started laughing. If you go view it, she has to wipe her head. And she already has, like, a bowl on her head, and she has to, like, lift it up, but under her breath, she's going. And then there was one time I used to do this character Herb Welch, who would hit people with a microphone.

[Kristen Wiig]

One of my favorites of all time.

[Bill Hader]

And one time I had hit Kristen in the crotch with a microphone, and I hit her in the crotch and she went. And I broke then, too.

[Kristen Wiig]

You have very good hearing, I think.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I can't see shit, but.

[Kristen Wiig]

But I will say, I think going back to what he was saying, there's like a loose with. You know, when we would do sketches together, I mean, it is pretty like we don't really get to improvise when we're doing sketches. It's pretty much reading what's on the card. But I think there is something very. I don't know, silly is the word that's coming to mind. But like, that. And even with, like, the Californians, where you're just like, I know he's going to make me laugh, and I know he's gonna do something different than he did in all the rehearsals and at dress rehearsal. So I think that's. And I think the audience, even though they're seeing it for the first time, I feel like they know that. Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Hader]

Kristen. I remember the first on air, she went, you said, we can't go. Then it'll be Jammed.

[Craig Johnson]

So I do have a clip of the Californians. I don't know which one it is, but I would like to.

[Kristen Wiig]

We'll watch that 32.

[Bill Hader]

Next on the Californians.

[Kristen Wiig]

I'm glad you came over, Devin.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, I'm glad, too.

[Kristen Wiig]

Maybe you should get going before Stuart goes home.

[Bill Hader]

Probably right. I was thinking I'd take Cany V, drive over to San Vicente and then make a left and get on the 405 north from there. And then I could just get off on Mulholland.

[Kristen Wiig]

I totally like that.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. Hey, honey, I brought us some tangerines. This guy was selling them on the off ramp. Everybody, the two. Devin, what are you doing here? We didn't know he was gonna do that. We did not know he was gonna do that. I skipped Wilshire and took Beverly over to Santa Monica and then took it. I had no idea he was gonna talk like that. Aw, hey, that's true. Yeah, I just came over to fix the outside speakers on your patio. I think it sounds pretty sweet. How's work? I think you should get home now, Devin.

[Kristen Wiig]

There's nothing going on. Storm.

[Bill Hader]

I said go home. Get back on San Vicente, take it to the 10, then switch to the.

[Kristen Wiig]

4, 4, 5 North and Milan where.

[Bill Hader]

You belong.

[Kristen Wiig]

At this time of day. It's gonna you, Chris.

[Bill Hader]

Get out of the tent and get out of here. What a pro. Kristen is. Absolute pro. Kristen is totally. Keeps it together.

[Kristen Wiig]

Now, when Fred would say, what are you doing here?

[Bill Hader]

From.

[Kristen Wiig]

From D table to the rehearsal to air, it got longer every time.

[Bill Hader]

And he added the. Like that.

[Kristen Wiig]

What are you doing here?

[Bill Hader]

What are you doing here? That's why. And when he did that, we both. I don't think. Yeah.

[Craig Johnson]

Who developed Californians? Was it him? Was it you guys?

[Bill Hader]

It was him and James Anderson. Based on a bit I remember that we would do at the table when everybody would be gone for a while and you'd come back and everybody would go, hey, Keenan, were you just in la?

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah.

[Bill Hader]

Well, how did you get to your meetings? Well, I took the 405 to the blah, blah, blah. And we would always like. Because when you go to la, that's all people do a lot worse. When there was the Thomas Guide, it was way worse. You remember those days? Yeah, right.

[Kristen Wiig]

Thomas Guy.

[Bill Hader]

Thomas Guy. This changes to Thomas Guide. Tom, let's get into it.

[Craig Johnson]

Did Californians come together quickly once you decided to make it a sketch? Or did it take a while to figure out like, these are these people. What the sort of adding the soap layer to it?

[Kristen Wiig]

I mean, you really don't get much time. Like, you get. You read the sketches like a couple hours before you do the table read. And the writers and Fred will just say, hey, this is kind of the vibe talk, sort of like this.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah.

[Kristen Wiig]

And then you just show up. And then.

[Bill Hader]

Well, because you know each other so well, he came to me and he was like, yeah, it's those San Pedro guys that we did, you know, because we would try to talk like San Pedro guys because we're big fans of the Minutemen, that band. And we would just go like, dude, I was just in Pedro, man. And I was like, you know, and it was like we were trying to do that, but he was like, yeah, man. It's like the Pedro guys, like, you know, just.

[Jesse David Fox]

We write back with more Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig, live from Vulture Festival.

[Bill Hader]

It's Today Explained. I'm Noel King with Miles Bryan, senior reporter and producer for the program. Hello. Hi. You went to public school, right, Miles? Yes. Go South High Tigers. What do you remember about school lunch? Oh, I remember sad lasagna shrink wrapped in little containers. I remember avoiding it. Do you remember the nuggets? The chicken nuggets? Yeah. If I had to eat school lunch, that was a pretty good option. I actually liked them. But in addition to being very tasty, those nugs were very processed. And at the moment, America has got.

[Kristen Wiig]

Processed foods in its crosshairs.

[Bill Hader]

It's true. We are collectively very down on processed food right now. None more so than Health and Human Services Secretary nominee Robert fluoride Kennedy Jr. I'll get processed food out of school lunch immediately. About half the school lunch program goes to processed food. Can the man who once saved a dead bear cub for a snack fix.

[Craig Johnson]

School lunches.

[Bill Hader]

Today Explained every weekday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now back to Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig live from Vulture Festival.

[Craig Johnson]

So, okay, so you are working together on snl. I'm curious, are there qualities of Fred that you or Fred, are there qualities of Bill that you liked?

[Bill Hader]

Wow.

[Craig Johnson]

Yeah, you were.

[Kristen Wiig]

I love to talk about Fred.

[Craig Johnson]

It was. The impression was so in front of me that I. Are there qualities of Bill that you like to write to? Are there things that you know that.

[Kristen Wiig]

He can do that you're like, he can do anything. Look, there's people that when you are writing a sketch, you know, like, this person will just kill it or I'm not sure if I'm writing a funny line. Give it to Bill. I'll make it funny. I mean, yeah, it's just like, you can just always count on that. And I think also we had such a sweet spot, like the. The cast.

[Bill Hader]

We were very lucky. Yeah. We were so lucky.

[Kristen Wiig]

And, I mean, we feel that way because we were there, but everyone probably feels that way.

[Bill Hader]

They were lucky to be with us.

[Kristen Wiig]

But it was like. It was very. You could just sort of kick the ball to anyone. And you knew everyone's little.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. When we look at the people we were with, everybody's, like, gone on to have, like, their own show, and everything's been so good, and we're just. I mean, so lucky, you know, so.

[Kristen Wiig]

And you do have a special bond with the people that you go in with because you feel like you're starting this crazy school and you're freshmen and you're like, what's going on? And it was me and Bill and Andy and Jason, and we just all. I don't know. There's something that bond will always.

[Bill Hader]

I mean, just look at that. That's crazy. Like, it was the four of us. Yeah. There's pictures of us, like the new kids, and it's me and Andy and Kristen and Jason. And I'm like, how fucking lucky I came in with those three. You know.

[Craig Johnson]

So.

[Bill Hader]

26 minutes.

[Craig Johnson]

They're probably appreciating the cast.

[Bill Hader]

One mention.

[Craig Johnson]

All right, so it comes as you are sort of moving through snl. Both of you do comedy movies. Big, funny, more comedic movies than actually get to get made now, I find. But both of you are then exiting snl, and you are. How does Skeleton Twins come to. It comes to you first, right?

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. So I was still on snl, and when we shot Skeleton Twins, I was still on snl. I did one more season than Kristen, and it came to me, and I kind of. What happened was I did this table read for a drama, and I showed up, and it was Kate Winslet, Bradley Cooper, and Greta Gerwig and Paul Dano, and then me, and they're kind of going like, what the fuck are you doing here? And I was like, I know. And we did this table read for the casting director and Avi, and she's amazing. And then she was like, wow, you're really good. And then months later, she said, hey, I have this script. I'm doing this movie and casting this movie, and it's a drama with some comedy. Would you read it? And I just read it and immediately was like, yeah, please. How do I Sign me up? And then from that point, it was a year or two until a year maybe or so. I can't remember until We. Until Kristen was able to. We got Kristen.

[Craig Johnson]

And.

[Kristen Wiig]

But you were.

[Bill Hader]

No, I just said 25 minutes. Wow.

[Craig Johnson]

We're not going to go over, guys. We have a lot to cover.

[Bill Hader]

I'm here for. I need an alibi for something going on in Malibu tonight.

[Craig Johnson]

So you were working with the director, Craig Johnson?

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, Craig Johnson. Who?

[Craig Johnson]

Well, he is. We are lucky enough that Craig is here with us.

[Bill Hader]

Craig's here. Craig Johnson, co writer, director, Skeleton Twins. The man, the myth.

[Kristen Wiig]

Give that man a mic. What do you want to say, Craig?

[Bill Hader]

It's AV Kaufman, right?

[Sean Illing]

Oh, my God, that's loud. AV Kaufman. Yeah.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. Casting director.

[Sean Illing]

Yep.

[Bill Hader]

Yep. And then we were. My. Remember, how long was it until Kristen came on?

[Sean Illing]

Like a year and a half or so, I think.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah.

[Sean Illing]

Took a while.

[Craig Johnson]

So why how then did Kristen become a part of it?

[Sean Illing]

Well, I mean, honestly, we had another actor attached who then ended up not being able to do it. And then we were just like, what? And I did.

[Kristen Wiig]

I knew that.

[Sean Illing]

And then when we were sort of Bridesmaids had just come out, and I immediately just zeroed in on Kristen, and I, you know, thought, oh, God, this energy of Saturday Night Live, my God, this would be ideal. I remember you guys had the same agents, I think, as well, at the same time.

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah, we did.

[Sean Illing]

Yeah. And they were really excited about you, Bill, doing this movie. And I was like, well, hey, guys, if you really want this movie to happen, Kristen Wiig and, you know, bridesmaids had just taken over the world.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. Say how much money Bridesmaids made? And they were like, mmm, yes.

[Sean Illing]

Well, at first they said, oh, Chris. No. I mean, she's getting offered every giant.

[Kristen Wiig]

Studio pack, which was not true.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, really? Well, she just got offered Batman.

[Sean Illing]

That was.

[Kristen Wiig]

That's. That was true.

[Craig Johnson]

That was basically as Batman.

[Kristen Wiig]

As Batman. Yeah. Well, you wear a. It doesn't matter. You're wearing it.

[Bill Hader]

You're like, hi, I'm Batman. Batman. Hi. We're out of wine.

[Craig Johnson]

Is that your impression of me?

[Bill Hader]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My impression to you is that you're always cold. Yeah.

[Craig Johnson]

I am always cold.

[Kristen Wiig]

Sorry, Craig.

[Bill Hader]

Sorry, Craig.

[Kristen Wiig]

This is what it was like every day. I'm surprised we got anything done. Okay, go ahead.

[Sean Illing]

They told me that they offered her Batman. She didn't want to do it. She actually wants to do a movie like the Skeleton Twin six Star said, well, this is what she actually kind of wants to do. I said, well, let her read it and maybe. And we just kind of crossed our fingers. And then I. You read it and wanted to meet me. And we met, and I remember it was one of those lunches where we meet and we talk about all kinds of things except for the movie. And I remember leaving and being like, hey, Kristen, does this maybe seem like something you'd want to do? And then you were like, oh, yeah, I would love to do it, but only if Bill wants to do it with me. And I realized I hadn't actually confirmed with Bill if he'd want to. I figured he would. But that night, I was having dinner with you, Bill, and I remember you were like. You were like, so, how did it go?

[Bill Hader]

I need a little bit more money.

[Sean Illing]

No, I said, she wants to do it, but only if you want to do it with her. And I remember you were like, why wouldn't I want to do it with her? And yeah, and then. And then I kind of was like, oh, gosh, we might make this little movie. And we did.

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah, it was one. I mean, yes, please.

[Bill Hader]

Craig's the real reason you're here. I mean, Craig. Craig's the reason. If you love this movie, Craig Johnson was. I will say, outside of my own project that I did, this is the best experience I had had doing anything SNL and anything, because it was so intimate and small. And it was, like, low budget where we had no trailers. We're getting, remember, lots of chips. Lots of chips. Yeah. We had to go, always provide chips. If you remember where we're in for Halloween and we had to get dressed in a Starbucks bathroom. Member. And all the people seeing me go in and then come out like that were like, hey, but. And, yeah, it was amazing. It was just one of the best experiences.

[Sean Illing]

Well, you guys were so game. I mean, it was like we were all going to film camp and you guys knew the assignment, as did Luke Wilson and Ty Burrell. And everybody else was just like, let's do this thing and play. Kind of just play in this little sandbox for a little while.

[Kristen Wiig]

And a lot of it was, oh, sorry. Oh, no. I was just gonna say with the dramatic stuff as well, because Bill and I had obviously done so much, you know, comedic stuff together. I had never felt more bonded with another actor. We had to, like, really go places. Not to sound. I don't want that to sound.

[Craig Johnson]

No, it's a hectare. Yeah.

[Kristen Wiig]

But, like, it was. And we were nervous. It's like we would. We would have these scenes where it's like, oh, I think I have to cry here. And we were like, you know, we were. We were, like, in it together. And there were scenes where we. There was that one scene which I will never forget. It's burned into my brain. We were in the backyard, and it's when. Yes. Either I said something horrible.

[Bill Hader]

You should have cut deeper.

[Craig Johnson]

Yes.

[Kristen Wiig]

And we. You yelled cut. We just started crying. Like, I felt bad that I said that. It was like. I don't know. It's. I'm explaining something that. That is probably hard to explain, but I think the whole experience of it and playing siblings and doing things we had never done before, there was just a connection that I've felt with Bill ever since.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it was. It was. It was one of those things. When it ended, I was legitimately very sad, you know, And I was doing SNL at the time, too, so I would shoot and then I had to do the table read on Wednesday and then go in for late Friday rehearsals. And I remember.

[Craig Johnson]

And where was the. Where were you shooting them?

[Bill Hader]

Poughkeepsie.

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah.

[Sean Illing]

We were like Nyack and Brooklyn at.

[Bill Hader]

The park, didn't I? Where was I? On top of the building. Where was that?

[Sean Illing]

That was in Nyack.

[Bill Hader]

That was in Nyack. That was hot. No, but I remember Reid Marano is a DP who is now an amazing director. She directed the first season of Handmaid's Tale, like, completely. You know, I remember she was like. Had a rope tied around her because. And then I had to go up on this building and be drunk. And it was just. It was that. I don't know, it was just very fun. It just. There was no. It was very small and very intimate.

[Craig Johnson]

Can you talk a little bit about why this was the kind of movie you wanted to make? Both of you? Sounds like, as you were thinking about, like, what you wanted to do in that moment in your careers, like, this is the kind of thing you were looking for. And I'm just curious if you can describe, like, what exactly that was that you were trying to find.

[Bill Hader]

I don't know. I think Kristen and I just. Just. Because, you know, we do comedy, but we're so interested in other things. And I think we both saw that from the get go. Kind of hang out, like the kind of films we liked. And, you know. You know, just. It just is a feeling you get with somebody where it's like, oh, you're like. Like, oh, you know, you want to try different things and try to expand or, you know, and. Yeah, it's just like a instinct thing. It's like trying to describe why you fell in love with somebody or whatever you Read something and you go, oh, yeah, that. And you do, but you can't. I don't know why. You know, it's like, just happened, you know.

[Craig Johnson]

Were you scared of the kind of acting that it was going to? Just because something that dramatic was not something you guys had really done? Certainly that length.

[Kristen Wiig]

Yeah. I mean, I was scared after we were wrapped, I was like, oh, God, what did I do? Was that okay? Because there is a conversation that happens when someone does something they don't normally do, and then it's kind of like, can they do it? And we were obviously known for doing, you know, movies in SNL that were comedic. And so I personally was a little just nervous about how it was going to be received, and especially because we really did feel so many emotions.

[Bill Hader]

So much fun. Yeah, it was one of those things. And it happens sometimes you have a good time on a project, and then it just gets, like, you know, annihilated, or no one really gives a shit about it. And you're like, oh, man. And then a thing you hated doing, people come up to you like, we. You sign this. And I'm like, that was the worst six months of my life. Like, marriage fell apart. Like, come on, I don't want to look at that. But, you know. But no, the thing. I was fine. I was like, man, this is awesome. I'm so excited. I got to do that. This is great. This is awesome. Awesome. And then it was the morning of the Sundance screening at a total, complete panic attack. Couldn't leave my dress. Couldn't leave the hotel room. Was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, and my wife at the time, Maggie Carey, she went. And I went across the street and I sat at a Starbucks or diner, some restaurant in Park City, and just sat there and then just looked at my phone and just sat there. And I remember she wrote me, they're loving it. And then she went, oh, my God. The lip sync sing just got a massive applause break. And I was like, okay. And then she went. She was like, you should really come back. And so I came back and I just kind of peeked in the front and, yeah, it was amazing.

[Kristen Wiig]

What time? How many do we have? Time. They cut us off.

[Bill Hader]

That's how they cut you off at the Vulture. I want to be done.

[Craig Johnson]

Yeah, that's it.

[Bill Hader]

Here is the 2 Broke Girls panel. The back.

[Craig Johnson]

I do want to talk about the lip sync scene. We have a clip of the lip sync, so let's watch that.

[Kristen Wiig]

What are you doing, Milo?

[Sean Illing]

Looking in your eyes, I see A.

[Bill Hader]

Paradise this world that I found Is.

[Kristen Wiig]

Too good to be true.

[Bill Hader]

Craig Johnson. Craig Johnson, he had that. Everything you saw, he. He walked us through every that. He walked every beat. Go over to the piano. Then you do this, then you pull the rope.

[Sean Illing]

I mean, yeah, they're being modest. We worked on it together. We figured it out together.

[Craig Johnson]

Was it always.

[Sean Illing]

I forgot how long it was.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. The thing I remember about, we did that and we had so much fun. And I. You correct me if I'm wrong on this. I could be wrong. And then I remember being like, we're done for the night.

[Sean Illing]

Oh, yeah, no, you're right.

[Bill Hader]

And then they went, hey, Bill, we gotta actually, the schedule permits. We gotta shoot the scene where you come home drunk after you try to commit suicide and you talk about the guy on, you know, MySpace and.

[Sean Illing]

Yeah, look at like in high school, looking up your bully.

[Bill Hader]

And I was like, okay. And I'm like, still have sweat from dancing. And Craig did an amazing thing was I just went outside and I hadn't looked at it. It was like a two page long thing or something. I was reading it and walking around and I was kind of trying not to freak out. And then the PA came up to me and was like, hey, they're ready. And I was like, okay. And she went. And he went, they're like basically set for you. And I remember walking in and it was like super quiet and everybody was there and Kristen was there and it was like the most respectful. It was so respectful. Kind of like that he was that in tune with me as a director to go, okay, you know what, let him have his space. Let him kind of come down and then we'll bring him in and we'll just try to change the energy in here. And I will always be thankful for that. Thank you for that, Craig. That was really amazing.

[Sean Illing]

Very welcome.

[Craig Johnson]

Was it always gonna be this song? How did this scene become part of this script?

[Sean Illing]

It was not so this, this. It was not supposed to be that epic either. It was like two sentences in the script that said, she's pissed off at him. She's bummed. He lip syncs a song to cheer her up. And in the script, the song was hold on by Wilson Phillips. And I remember Bridesmaids. If you all remember that song, that song factors into that movie prominently. So Kristen and I, I think Kristen even said, as we were kind of initially talking, she's like, we're gonna change that song, right? And I said, absolutely. But I. Not until a few weeks before shooting did I have the song. And I was listening to every kind of. I knew I wanted it this sort of, you know, cheesy but kind of. Oh, God. Everyone would start singing along if they were alone in their car to the song, kind of. Kind of 80s jam. And I was listening to all kinds of everything. Debbie Gibson and Tiffany, and nothing was quite right. And then when I kind of rediscovered Nothing's Gonna Stop Us now by Starship, it was a duet. It was the only duet I listened to. So that whole concept of him trying to get her to sing the Grace Slick part happened just like two weeks before we shot. And I was like, wait, this could be like a whole thing. And he could try to get her to sing and she'll resist and then she'll sing along. So that. Which is, you know, that the scene is now like, pops off on TikTok and I can't even, you know, it's lived. Lived a life. It was just something that I just found that song two weeks before and was like, oh, this could be a thing. And it was.

[Bill Hader]

Good job, Krieg.

[Sean Illing]

Thanks.

[Kristen Wiig]

Great.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, you did a good job. They.

[Craig Johnson]

Krieg, the Australians are back.

[Kristen Wiig]

They're never going to go.

[Bill Hader]

You seem really.

[Kristen Wiig]

Until the movie comes out. Two hours of us back.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Which suitcase should we get? I like how you just went, oh, the Australians are back. Okay, so my next question. 7 minutes, 43, 42.

[Craig Johnson]

So the movie comes out, it has this incredibly warm reaction. You were obviously worried about what the reaction was going to be. And it has become this incredibly well loved, embraced thing. How did it change? Or did it change sort of what you wanted to be doing in your careers afterwards, what choices you wanted to make afterwards.

[Bill Hader]

I will say this movie factored hugely in me being able to do the Barry, the HBO show. I did. Because when I was at. Thank you. When I was at a meeting at HBO and I met at some other places, like, you get. I don't know if you get done with SNL and they send you on all these meetings and everybody's like, so we want to do, you know, you know, whatever your character doing this or this kind of a thing, doing this. And it's always kind of sketchy. And HBO is the place where, like, we saw Skeleton Twins. We really liked your work in that. We like to see something like that. And that was all they said. And they were like, so there's this guy, Alec Berg. Alec. You watch Skeleton Twins. And Alec came to the screening. We had the premiere. So Alec Berg came. Came to the Premiere of Skeleton Twins. Because HBO is like, you gotta go see this movie. Look at his work in this movie. He's not just, like an impressionist guy. And Alec came out, was like, wow. All right. Okay. Yeah. All right. You know. And that. Yeah. I don't think Barry would. There's no way that would have happened if it wasn't for this movie.

[Craig Johnson]

You. Both of you write, have been writing, you know, after snl, obviously writing on snl, and are moving into writing, have been writing other projects. And I'm just. I'm curious. You are such physical performers in a scene like that. And it is so unusual to have performers who can do that kind of physical work and then also do the incredibly obnoxious work of being a writer, where you sit in a room and it's sort of quiet in your head and terrible. And I'm.

[Bill Hader]

Do you need help? You want us to. I'm on. What do you need?

[Craig Johnson]

It's okay.

[Bill Hader]

I don't remember your name, but I'm here for you.

[Craig Johnson]

Thank you. Yeah, appreciate that. And I feel really personally seen in this moment. How do you translate between those two things? Are they completely different muscles? As you're writing, are you thinking like, oh, because you write for yourselves also. Are you thinking about the physical act of it?

[Bill Hader]

Kristen, at snl, I couldn't write. I was not a very good sketch writer. No sketch writing. I always need, like, Mulaney or Simon Rich or something to go off of. Kristin would go into a room and come out, and I remember asking you. I was like, how do you write the thing? Like, Target Lady? How do you do Penelope? And all these things, you know, like all these classic characters. Like, if you. When I was at the show, if you went down into the SNL store, the NBC store, they had an SNL section, and every piece of merchandise was one of her characters. It was. It was. I was just like. So she, like, created these things, and Ken Sublette and James Anderson. There was these great people you worked with. But I was, like, asking you. I was like, how do you. You know? And you're like, I don't know. It's just in my head, and it comes out now.

[Sean Illing]

Bill, I have seen a Stefan Christmas ornament.

[Bill Hader]

Oh, that's true. That was one character. Yeah, but you know what I mean? It was like, yeah, you said that. And then I try to do that in a.

[Kristen Wiig]

You wrote a lot on the show.

[Bill Hader]

I kind of. I had to be. Well, that was a different kind of writing. In Barry, I was, like, suicidal, you know, yes. It wasn't a lot of yucks. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. 3 minutes, 29 seconds.

[Kristen Wiig]

You write a lot more now, now. Yes.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, I do have like. I write pretty much every day now.

[Craig Johnson]

And do you think about. I'm still curious. Just the translation between the act of writing and then like sort of the physical performance. Do they live as the sort of same thing for you? Are they totally separate?

[Bill Hader]

I don't know. To me, when you're writing, like, I mean, like the barrier or something like that, it was always like trying to get the show right and like the story right. And then I think because of SNL and maybe just our improv sketch background, I was like, I'll find my way in that. You know, it's like the emotion's right. You know what I mean? But maybe like, it's kind of like what Craig said with that scene, you know, you just go, okay. The motion of this scene is like he cheers her up. Yeah. You don't think about the little. You don't think about the other stuff. And then that's kind of what's fun. You get into rehearsal or something happens or you hear a song and then you go, oh my God, that elevates this. But the hard part of writing is just the day to day grind of like, this makes no sense. This makes no sense. I have to try to make this thing make sense.

[Craig Johnson]

What are your worst habits as writers?

[Bill Hader]

Not writing.

[Kristen Wiig]

Not doing it.

[Bill Hader]

I've watched every episode of the show snapped because that's what you're watching. Yeah. I love women killing men. I just find it and it's so regional. It's so regional.

[Craig Johnson]

And you're a Bravo person. I understand.

[Kristen Wiig]

I am a Bravo person. And I'm not ashamed. I am not ashamed.

[Bill Hader]

I think that's awesome.

[Craig Johnson]

This is a vulture excuse.

[Bill Hader]

You.

[Craig Johnson]

We are not ashamed.

[Kristen Wiig]

Two kids. So I don't really watch that much anymore.

[Bill Hader]

Yeah, but. Yeah, not doing it. And then, But I tend to like, you have to fate. You have to like force yourself to do it. It's like you just. I'm like, I write it on a note. I write like a post it note and I put on my computer and it's like right from this time to this time and then there'll be day weeks where I just like, I just sit there.

[Kristen Wiig]

And second guessing yourself because I'll have something in my head where I'm like, oh, I gotta write that down. And then I start writing it. I'm like, this is terrible. And yeah, you always gotta keep going. Because there were things that I've written that I've done, and I always thought it was terrible. Not terrible, but you just. You can't see it or you feel like, oh, maybe this isn't enough, or I don't know if my voice is right.

[Bill Hader]

You're one of the funniest writers of all. I mean, barbonstar, Come on. That's like one of the funniest. That is like one of the funniest things that got me through the pandemic. It did.

[Craig Johnson]

That movie is incredible.

[Bill Hader]

It's amazing.

[Kristen Wiig]

Thank you very much.

[Craig Johnson]

Well, let's talk about Barry.

[Bill Hader]

Oh. Oh, you want to talk about Barry.

[Kristen Wiig]

It's a pretty big feat. I mean, you've had this show for years.

[Bill Hader]

Four seasons.

[Kristen Wiig]

Four seasons. And I know you and seeing you not only play the character, but you are such a phila. Film filmile.

[Craig Johnson]

Sure.

[Kristen Wiig]

Is that right?

[Craig Johnson]

That's fine.

[Kristen Wiig]

Cinemaphile.

[Bill Hader]

Cinemaphile. I like.

[Kristen Wiig]

I don't watch films.

[Bill Hader]

Cinemaphile, front row. We can just 13. Yeah, we can just 12, 11, 10.

[Craig Johnson]

No, one last. No, but I do.

[Kristen Wiig]

I just wanted to because it is a big deal, like what you've created since you left snl and it's like everybody's favorite show and your talent comes through in it. And is it weird to say I'm proud of you?

[Bill Hader]

Oh, you can say, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. How many pictures of the Palm Royal thing guys send you in? Barbara and Star, I always, like, take pictures and send them to her. I'm like, look, a proud parent. Like, your billboard's over La Cienega. Kristen.

[Craig Johnson]

Thank you so much to both of you for being here.

[Bill Hader]

All right.

[Craig Johnson]

It's been such a treat.

[Kristen Wiig]

Now it's just flashing.

[Craig Johnson]

Now it's just flashing.

[Bill Hader]

Get off the floor. Get out. Get out.

[Kristen Wiig]

Please leave. Oh, no.

[Bill Hader]

Intruder alert. And now the stars of Battlestar Galactica.

[Craig Johnson]

That is correct. That is what is up next. And we need everyone to clear the room quickly because they have to bring the ship. But please give a huge round of applause.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's it for another episode of good One. Good One is produced by myself and Jelani Carter. Gavin Triggerchin did our theme song, rate, review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox, and you can follow me. Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to good One from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week with a new episode. Have a good one.

[Bill Hader]

Welcome to good one. So about talking them jokes, son. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Good one. It's a good one.