Faith Without Sight: A Blind Pastor’s Journey

Summary

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Faith Without Sight: A Blind Pastor’s Journey

Podcast: GPS: God. People. Stories.
Host: Jim Kirkland (Billy Graham Evangelistic Association)
Guest: Chad Roberts
Date: April 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Pastor Chad Roberts shares the remarkable story of how he lost his physical sight but gained a new, unshakable depth of faith. Host Jim Kirkland guides listeners through Chad’s childhood influences, his call to ministry, the devastating diagnosis of blindness in his 30s, and the transformation of his journey with God through suffering and loss. The episode blends personal testimony, Biblical wisdom, and encouragement for anyone struggling to see hope in their darkest moments.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Chad’s Early Spiritual Formation

• Upbringing in Faith: Raised faithfully by a devout Christian mother in Kingsport, Tennessee, Chad learned from her that "the church is not salvation…It's Jesus and Jesus alone." (02:32-02:58, Chad Roberts)

• Early Call to Ministry: By age 9, he made a personal commitment to Christ. By age 12, missionaries invited him to spend a summer in former communist Europe, shaping his heart for missions.

  • “Those people and the missionaries I was with, they forever marked me.” (04:01, Chad Roberts)

• The Spark for Church Planting: Inspired by Acts 5:42, Chad sensed a call:

  • “Christ the Lord spoke to me and said, that's the church you're going to one day build and pastor. You're going to call it Preaching Christ Church.” (04:49, Chad Roberts)

2. The Leap to Plant a Church

• At 19, despite fear and doubts, Chad obeyed God's call, founding Preaching Christ Church with only seven people.
  • “I told the Lord...no one's going to come...And turns out I like to remind the Lord I was right about that. No one came for a very long time.” (05:36, Chad Roberts)
• The church has since grown to 1,400 members. (06:03, Jim Kirkland)

3. Mission Work and the Onset of Blindness

• Mission Trips: Continued passion for international missions, especially in his 20s–30s.

• Eye Trauma in Nicaragua: While hiking a mountain for ministry, Chad’s vision suddenly blurred:

  • “...blood vessels burst. It was just like looking through a spider web of blood.” (06:41, Chad Roberts)

• Medical Struggle & Diagnosis:

  • Underwent eye injections and surgeries, but prognosis grim:
    • “The surgeon...said, there is a very high probability that you’re going to go blind.” (07:10, Chad Roberts; 00:00, opening quote)
  • Suffered failed surgeries; a torn retina caused permanent blindness in his left eye, with his right eye deteriorating within 15 months. (08:23, Chad Roberts)

• Final Road Trip with Sight:

  • “I knew in my heart that it would be my last time there with eyesight. And I went by myself. And I spent a few days just with The Lord reflecting, contemplating, praying, preparing.” (08:49, Chad Roberts)

4. Wrestling with Loss and Discovering New Purpose

• Confronting Doubt:

  • “I have work to do...How could I preach if I can't read a Bible? I just remember thinking, this just doesn't make sense.” (07:43, Chad Roberts)

• Choosing to Continue Ministry:

  • “I was not going to stop ministry, whether I could see or I couldn't see. It doesn't change the faithfulness of God.” (09:19, Chad Roberts)

• Humor and Honesty Regarding Blindness:

  • With wit, Chad describes the vulnerability of daily life:

    • “You should see me approach an escalator. Everybody holds their breath, right? Cause the blind guy's getting on an escalator, you can feel those things.” (10:45, Chad Roberts)

  • Recounts a particularly embarrassing moment realizing the reality of his new life:

    • “After I washed my hands, I couldn't find my way out. I was so embarrassed... I knew right then my mobility was over.” (11:18, Chad Roberts)

5. Spiritual Lessons in the Valley

• Greater Presence, Deeper Relationships:

  • “I look back at the way I was living with eyesight. I was way too busy...Now I'm so present with my family. That wasn't the case back then. My church, I feel like I shepherd people far better today than I did when I was distracted...” (12:44, Chad Roberts)

• Understanding Psalm 23:2:

  • “I could feel God’s hand forcing me to lie down...I discovered God has lush green pastures...of contentment, of peace, pastures of trust and a faith that I would have never known...” (13:54, Chad Roberts)

• Dependency and the Gift of Community:

  • “I have no choice now but to trust people. I can't do anything without people helping me...I have found people are the greatest part of my life. And when people help me...they're so kind, and it's just something I never experienced with eyesight.” (14:25, Chad Roberts)

• Battling Emotional Despair:

  • “I never paid attention to my dreams until I went blind...I can see everything. But...to wake up from a vivid dream, to wake up to pitch blackness—days like that my emotions would have kept me in bed...But what I did...I would say to myself, this is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice. I will be glad in it.” (15:39, Chad Roberts)

• Learning to Choose Joy:

  • “Had I just sat and waited to feel joyful, it would have never came...Joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that He wants to produce. And it starts by us choosing joy.” (16:44, Chad Roberts)

• Unshakable Faith:

  • “…1st Peter 4:19 has been the greatest sustaining verse to me. It says, let those who suffer according to the will of God...Continue to do good...Don’t stop in your sufferings. God has purpose in it.” (17:39, Chad Roberts)

6. Biblical Reflection with Billy Graham

• Classic audio from Billy Graham retelling the story of blind Bartimaeus (Mark 10) and drawing the parallel between spiritual and physical blindness.
  • “The Bible teaches that we have two sets of eyes...And the Bible teaches that we're blind. We've been blinded by the devil. You don't think you need Christ, but God looks at you with different eyes...Jesus said, you must be born again.” (19:41, Billy Graham)

7. Final Encouragement and Advice

• If Chad could advise his younger self, he’d say:
  • “Calm down, trust in God. Everything is going to be okay...God is walking this path with you...Your faith will survive. It will...God has built his people for storms. So don't quit...Keep going forward.” (22:41, Chad Roberts)
• “My job as a blind pastor is to help people trust in a God they can't see. I teach people how to find faith in their struggles.” (22:41, Chad Roberts)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There is a very high probability that you’re going to go blind.”
  — Chad Roberts (recalled advice from his specialist, 00:00; 07:10)

• “I am so glad you're all here today.” (as he faces away from the church after losing sight)
  — Chad Roberts (09:47, breaking the tension and guiding his congregation courageously)

• “I have found people are the greatest part of my life…when people help me…it's just something I never experienced with eyesight.”
  — Chad Roberts (14:25)

• Billy Graham: “The Bible teaches that we have two sets of eyes...But the Bible teaches that we're blind. We've been blinded by the devil...He came to die on the cross for our sins tonight...Jesus can immediately tonight, now transform your life and make you a new person. If you would put your faith and your confidence and your trust in Him.” (19:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:13 – Chad recounts his diagnosis and the journey toward blindness
• 02:32–04:26 – Childhood faith, early call to missions, first taste of international ministry
• 04:49–05:28 – God’s call to church planting
• 06:13–06:57 – Mission to Nicaragua, first signs of eye trouble
• 07:10–08:36 – Medical journey, facing irreversible blindness
• 08:49–09:19 – Last road trip with sight, reaffirming commitment to ministry
• 09:47–10:37 – Addressing the congregation after loss of sight
• 11:18–11:58 – Moment of humility: lost in a restroom, the reality of blindness
• 12:44–14:18 – Lessons learned: slowing down, being present, deeper relationships
• 15:39–16:44 – Navigating the emotional aftermath, learning to choose joy
• 17:39–18:49 – Discovering sustaining faith in suffering
• 19:41–21:51 – Billy Graham on spiritual blindness and sight
• 22:41–23:57 – Chad’s final words of advice to his younger self and encouragement for listeners

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Episode Takeaway

Chad Roberts’ journey exemplifies how suffering and loss can ultimately deepen faith, forge stronger relationships, and reorient priorities toward what matters most. Blindness, though a tremendous loss, led him to a place of greater spiritual clarity, humility, and joy. His story offers hope and practical wisdom for anyone finding it hard to believe in a God they cannot see, urging listeners not to stop in the midst of suffering, but to continue forward—trusting that God is always present, and that faith will endure.

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Transcript

[Chad Roberts]

When I began going to a retina specialist, their first thing they tried was to give injections into my eyes. And when it was clear that that was not going to work, I can remember the surgeon sitting down with my wife and I and he said, there is a very high probability that you're going to go blind.

[Jim Kirkland]

While hiking during a mission trip in Nicaragua, Chad Roberts began experiencing eye problems due to bursting blood vessels since he has become 100% blind. But Chad has remained steadfast in his faith and continues to pastor his church, helping people trust in a God they can't see. You'll hear more of his experiences on the journey to blindness and the faith that he has developed through his suffering on this episode of gps God People Stories. It's an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I'm Jim Kirkland. Chad's journey reminds us that even if we lose our sight or some other tragedy hits us hard, we have a God to whom we can call out for help. The Bible tells of a blind man who did just that. And Billy Graham shared his story and

[Billy Graham]

they came to Jericho. And as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me. And many charged him that he should hold his peace, but he cried the more a great deal, Thou, son of David, have mercy on me.

[Jim Kirkland]

We'll hear Billy Graham share how Jesus responded later in this episode. If you're struggling in your life, you too can cry out to Jesus for mercy and for help. We have folks standing by 24 hours a day, seven days a week to pray with you at the Billy Graham 24. 7 prayer line. The number to call is 855-255-7729. That's 855-255-pray. You can also find that number in our show Notes gps. Go. Chad Roberts grew up in Kingsport, Tennessee. His mother was a strong Christian, and she brought him to church every single time the doors were open.

[Chad Roberts]

She raised me in church. I mean, we were there so much. You know, you've heard people say before they cut their teeth on church pews. Well, that was me. And although I had the privilege of growing up in a wonderful church, she modeled for me. The church is not salvation. The church is not your faith or Christianity. It's Jesus and Jesus alone.

[Jim Kirkland]

That teaching led Chad to place his faith in Jesus at An early age, he knelt with his mom by his bed and prayed to commit his life to God.

[Chad Roberts]

I was probably around 9 years old when I gave my life to the Lord. But when I turned 10 and 11 years old, I was very serious in my faith and my walk with God and other people sensed God's call on my life and other people knew that God was going to do something with my life.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad's family had a lifelong friend who had become a missionary to Romania after the communist government fell there in the early 90s.

[Chad Roberts]

When I was 12 years old, this missionary came to my parents and said I want him to spend his summer with me on the mission field.

[Jim Kirkland]

During his summers as a 12 and 13 year old, Chad went all over former communist Europe. He visited Romania, Hungary, Ukraine and other countries to experience life as a Christian in those nations.

[Chad Roberts]

I remember going to a church and the church was packed. I mean you couldn't fit another person in there. And we drove up and there were more people outside the church building than what was inside. It was remarkable. They were so hungry for the gospel. So those people and the missionaries I was with, they forever marked me.

[Jim Kirkland]

Once he returned home, the churches that had supported him asked Chad to come share about the trip. As he was speaking at one of those churches, God caught Chad's attention. Across the church's back wall, Chad could see the large lettering meant for speakers to see as they preached. It was from Acts chapter 5, verse 42 and, and they ceased not to teach and preach.

[Chad Roberts]

Christ the Lord spoke to me and said, that's the church you're going to one day build and pastor. You're going to call it Preaching Christ Church.

[Jim Kirkland]

And Chad thought surely God meant later in his life. After all, he was still a teenager.

[Chad Roberts]

I thought that I would pastor a number of churches before I ever, you know, attempted to plant a church from scratch. But as I began to apply for Bible colleges and I was so excited for Bible college, the Lord spoke to me very, very clear. And the Lord said, this is not the path I have for you. It's time to plant your church.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad argued with God at just 19 years old. He was scared and didn't really feel ready to become a pastor.

[Chad Roberts]

I told the Lord, I said lord, no one's going to come. I mean I'm not married, I don't have children. I how am I going to preach about family? And turns out I like to remind the Lord I was right about that. No one came for a very long time. And so we planted Preaching Christ Church in 2001 with only seven people. And today we have 1400 people that call it their church home.

[Jim Kirkland]

However, God didn't just grow Chad's church. He gave Chad the opportunity to travel and rekindle his love for international missions.

[Chad Roberts]

In my very early 20s, I went to Africa, and from then on, I just never looked back. And the Lord just opened up opportunity after opportunity. And we. I traveled very, very heavy through my 20s and my 30s.

[Jim Kirkland]

One of those trips was to Nicaragua. He was traveling alongside two other pastor friends when their trip ceased to go as planned.

[Chad Roberts]

I was training pastors and we hiked a large mountain to go to the top of a Christian radio tower. When I got to the top of that tower, blood vessels burst. It was just like looking through a spider web of blood.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad stayed calm outwardly, but inside he was panicked. Chad went to an eye doctor as soon as he got back to the United States and was referred to a retina specialist.

[Chad Roberts]

Their first thing they tried was to give injections into my eyes. And when it was clear that that was not going to work, I can remember the surgeon sitting down with my wife and I, and he said, there is a very high probability that you're going to go blind.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad was stunned. Few people ever imagine they will go blind. His wife Sadie was with him. When he got the news, she began to cry.

[Chad Roberts]

I can remember looking over at her and just feeling so confused, like, lord, I just don't see that happening. I have work to do. I have ministry to do. How could I preach if I can't read a Bible? And I know that God has put me on this earth to proclaim his word and to teach Christians, line upon line, the scriptures. And I just remember thinking, this just doesn't make sense.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad tried to take the proper next steps to give him the best outcome for his future. His retina specialist told him that he had to have eye surgery.

[Chad Roberts]

I had two failed surgeries back to back. And in the last failed surgery, they accidentally tore my retina in my left eye, which left me immediately, permanently blind in my left.

[Jim Kirkland]

Within 15 months, the vision in Chad's right eye rapidly diminished. Realizing he wasn't going to be able to drive much longer, Chad decided to take a final road trip to a special destination.

[Chad Roberts]

One of my favorite places on Earth is the Billy Graham Training center at the COVID in Asheville. And I remember I went to the COVID for one last trip. I knew in my heart that it would be my last time there with eyesight. And I went by myself. And I spent a few days just with The Lord reflecting, contemplating, praying, preparing.

[Jim Kirkland]

As Chad drove home, his heart was filled with resolve.

[Chad Roberts]

I was not going to stop ministry, whether I could see or I couldn't see. It doesn't change the faithfulness of God. It doesn't change the call of God upon my life. And I told the Lord that day, I said, it doesn't matter what I gain. It doesn't matter what I lose. I will go forward in kingdom work.

[Jim Kirkland]

In spite of their pastor's confidence, Chad's church wondered if he'd be able to continue his ministry.

[Chad Roberts]

I could hear the whispers around my church. Is Chad going to be able to continue? Will Chad resign? Will he just go on disability? Will he keep pastoring? I could feel the angst. I could feel the nervousness within the church. Well, the next Sunday, someone has to escort me up to the platform because I can't see. And I knew full well what I was doing. I turned and my back was to the audience, and I said, I am so glad you're all here today. And I could hear a collective gasp across the church. And I turned around and I said, people, it's fine. We're going to be fine. And from that moment, it's just like it broke the ice, and we've never looked back.

[Jim Kirkland]

There were still some moments where a good sense of humor wasn't enough to cover his feelings of embarrassment.

[Chad Roberts]

I know what the feeling is. When I walk through a restaurant and I'm being led, I'm being navigated. I know what it is to feel like all eyes are on me. I know what it is, the embarrassment if I spill a drink. I know what it is. You should see me approach an escalator. Everybody holds their breath, right? Cause the blind guys getting on an escalator, you can feel those things.

[Jim Kirkland]

One particularly embarrassing event signified the moment Chad had to acknowledge a hard truth.

[Chad Roberts]

I had went to a pastor's gathering at a very nice hotel, and I had stepped to the restroom after the event was over. And I was struggling. I mean, at that point I couldn't drive. I was doing good to walk with what little diminished peripheral vision I had left. And I remember I went to the restroom, and after I washed my hands, I couldn't find my way out. I was so embarrassed. It was only a couple of moments, but I knew right then my mobility was over. It was a very, very scary feeling.

[Jim Kirkland]

Two years after the fateful climb up the radio tower in Nicaragua, Chad was completely blind. He was 38 years old.

[Chad Roberts]

I've been to the most elite eye doctors in the world. And they can't give me any clear explanations as to the timing. I even did the injections in my eyes. We did everything possible to save my eyesight, but there's been far more gain than loss in my life. And now I am as content today in complete blindness as I ever was with full eyesight.

[Jim Kirkland]

Through losing his eyesight, the Lord revealed to Chad a different life.

[Chad Roberts]

I look back at the way I was living with eyesight. I was way too busy. I was sinfully busy. I was going every which way. And I thought I was doing good ministry, you know? And I look back now at how present back then compared to now. I'm so present with my family. I'm so present with my kids. That wasn't the case back then. I was too busy. My church. I feel like I shepherd people far better today than I did when I was distracted with a computer and with a tablet and my phone and social media. There were so many distractions that I just. I didn't realize it. But when my life came to a grinding halt, I couldn't just jump in my car and zip through town. I couldn't just jump on an airplane and go to another country like I was used to.

[Jim Kirkland]

That's when Chad really understood Psalms 23, verse 2 for the first time. In that passage, the author David said, he makes me lie down in green pastures.

[Chad Roberts]

In those early days, I could feel God's hand forcing me to lie down, to slow down. And what I discovered, God has lush green pastures, pastures of contentment, pastures of peace, pastures of trust and a faith that I would have never known, not in the state of busyness that I was in.

[Jim Kirkland]

When Chad had eyesight, he was self reliant. And he realizes that was wrong.

[Chad Roberts]

I did everything myself. And when blindness slammed into my life like a hurricane, I have no choice now but to trust people. I can't do anything without people helping me. And I thought that that would be the hardest part was losing my independence, losing my mobility. But what I have found instead, I have found people are the greatest part of my life. And when people help me and they serve and they. They're so kind, and it's just something I never experienced with eyesight. Jeremiah 2:13. God says, My people have committed two evils. They have forsaken me, the fountain of living water, and they have hewed out for themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water. I think that was me. I thought that I could do everything. I thought that I didn't need other people's. Help. And truthfully, I was sinfully self sufficient.

[Jim Kirkland]

Chad did find one time of day, or actually the night that he could see. And through this discovery, he made the choice in how he'd face life.

[Chad Roberts]

When you are a sighted person and you go blind, do you know that you still dream in vivid color? It's very fascinating. I never paid attention to my dreams until I went blind. And now I love it because I can see everything, but I can't tell you what it was, especially in those early days, to wake up from a vivid dream, to wake up to pitch blackness and nothing I can do to change it. Days like that, my emotions would have kept me in bed. Days like that, I didn't want to face the day. Days like that, I felt despair like nothing else but what I did. And I've done it more times than I can count. I would set up on the edge of my bed and I would say to myself, this is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice. I will be glad in it.

[Jim Kirkland]

On those days, Chad would wake up and choose joy. He recognized that doing so sometimes meant overriding his feelings. It was a choice, not an emotion.

[Chad Roberts]

Had I just sat and waited to feel joyful, it would have never came. There were too many problems. James chapter one, verse two says, count it all joy when you encounter trials of various kinds. And I had to learn that joy is not this emotional feeling. When things go well in your life. Joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit that He wants to produce. And it starts by us choosing joy. The Bible says, rejoice in the Lord. You may not be able to rejoice in your situation. You may not be able to rejoice in your loss, or in your grief or in your hurt, but you can rejoice in the Lord.

[Jim Kirkland]

The joy Chad experiences is not reliant on outcome, but rather on faith anchored in God.

[Chad Roberts]

God gives us an unshakable faith that no outcome can shake it. And so I tell Christians today, 1st Peter 4:19 has been the greatest sustaining verse to me. It says, let those who suffer according to the will of God. Now, how do you know you're suffering according to God's will? What I've learned is that when something's beyond my control, when I'm in a situation that I can't change on my own, when there's a circumstance touching my life that I can't control, that's how I know I'm suffering according to God's will. And you know what the last phrase of verse 4:19 says, Continue to do good. And that's what I encourage Christians. Don't stop in your sufferings. God has purpose in it. So I tell Christians today, chin up, one foot in front of the other. Don't stop following Jesus. Continue to do good, because God knows what he's doing.

[Jim Kirkland]

If you've been inspired by Chad's story today and would like to place your faith in the same God who has faithfully led Chad through a journey he never expected, we can help you with that and do so right now. Visit our website findpeacewithgod.net when you're there, click on Begin a Relationship with Jesus. That'[e-mail] and that link is also found in our show notes. In just a minute, you'll hear a final encouragement from Chad, something that he learned through his loss of sight.

[Chad Roberts]

You're listening to GPS God People Stories, a podcast production of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

[Billy Graham]

Now tonight, I want you to turn with me to the 10th chapter of

[Chad Roberts]

Mark's Gospel, Billy Graham.

[Billy Graham]

And they came to Jericho. And as he went out of Jericho with his disciples and a great number of people, blind Bartimaeus, the son of Timaeus, sat by the highway side begging. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me. And many charged him that he should hold his peace. But he cried the more a great deal, thou, son of David, have mercy on me. And they called the blind man, saying unto him, be of good comfort, rise. He calleth thee. And he, casting away his garment, rose and came to Jesus. And Jesus answered and said unto him, what wilt thou that I should do unto thee? And the blind man said unto him, lord, that I may receive my sight. And Jesus said unto him, go thy way. Thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus in the way. The Bible teaches that we have two sets of eyes, physical eyes. You and I can see. But the Bible teaches that we have eyes in our soul and our spirit. And the Bible teaches that we're blind. We've been blinded by the devil. You don't think you need Christ, but God looks at you with different eyes. And God see your sin. He sees that Satan has put a veil over your minds so that you cannot see and cannot understand spiritual things. Jesus said, you must be born again. You must receive him into your heart. You must repent of your sins. And that's why he came. He came to die. On the cross for our sins tonight, with all of your hurt, with all of your sins, with all of your failures, with all of your lack of purpose and meaning in your life, Jesus can immediately tonight, now transform your life and make you a new person. If you would put your faith and your confidence and your trust in Him.

[Jim Kirkland]

Do you have faith in a God you cannot see? If you've never trusted Jesus with your life and you'd like to know more about him, we have resources ready and available for you right now at our website, findpeacewithgod.net it's a place where you can learn what it means to begin a relationship with Jesus or grow deeper in your relationship with Jesus. The website again is findpeacewithgod.net and you can find the link in our show notes. Our guest on this episode of GPS is Chad Roberts, who, despite becoming completely blind in his 30s, continues to Pastor a church and faithfully preach the gospel. Before we go, Chad answers one final question. What would today's blind Chad say to the Chad who was losing eyesight?

[Chad Roberts]

I would say, calm down, trust in God. Everything is going to be okay. Because God doesn't waste anything. God is not accidental. He is not coincidental. He's not haphazard. God is walking this path with you. You're not going to take a step that the good shepherd has not already taken ahead of you and he's bidding you come, follow me. This is a good path. I tell people today my job as a blind pastor is to help people trust in a God they can't see. I teach people how to find faith in their struggles. And I would say to that precious brother, that precious sister who's right now walking through the trial of their life, I would say, just hold on, because God's not going to leave you and he's not going to forsake you. That's his promise to us. And I would tell that brother or I would tell that sister, your faith will survive. It will. It will weather the storm. God has built his people for storms. So don't quit. Don't throw in the towel. Don't stop in your sufferings. Keep going forward.

[Jim Kirkland]

We're grateful for Chad sharing his story with us in this episode. The church plant he was called to start at age 19 has now been going strong for a quarter century and he remains the lead pastor of Preaching Christ Church. His wife Sadie remains at his side, so do their four kids. Please subscribe to GPS through your podcast app or on YouTube so you won't miss more stories that give us encouragement along our personal journey with Christ. In the middle of life. GPS is here in the middle of the week, every other Wednesday. I'm Jim Kirkland, and this is GPS God People Stories. It's an outreach of the Billy Grant Evangelistic Association. Always good news.