Are Enduring to the End and Being in Fellowship With God the Same Thing?

Summary

Grace in Focus — Episode Summary
Are Enduring to the End and Being in Fellowship With God the Same Thing?
February 17, 2026 | Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Ken Yates

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Overview

This 13-minute episode delves into the nuanced relationship between “enduring to the end” and “being in fellowship with God” at life’s close. Host Bob Wilkin and guest Ken Yates engage in a candid discussion, considering whether enduring faithfulness equates to ongoing fellowship, and how this impacts doctrines of assurance, eternal rewards, and sanctification within Free Grace Theology. They raise questions about practical Christian living, scriptural interpretation, and the reality of incomplete sanctification in believers’ lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Often-Neglected Topic of Endurance and Fellowship

• The hosts reflect on how seminaries rarely address the difference between enduring to the end (persevering faithfulness) and remaining in fellowship with God.
  • “I have attended more seminary classes than anybody in the history of the world... and you're right. We never discuss these things.” — Ken Yates (01:50)
  • Both agree these issues, while sometimes dismissed as “minutia,” significantly impact scriptural interpretation and practical theology.

2. Defining the Terms: Endurance vs. Fellowship

• The hosts introduce the central question: Is enduring to the end (as described by Paul in 2 Timothy 2:12) the same as being in ongoing fellowship with God at life’s end?
  • Bob uses hypothetical: What if I endure in church attendance and witness, but am out of fellowship with God in, say, my marriage? (02:39)
  • Ken notes some would argue true endurance cannot exist without fellowship, but they're exploring if the categories can be separated—a "spiritual India" of unexplored ideas (04:14).

3. Scriptural Analysis: Confession, Denial, and Rewards

• Matthew 10:32-33 and 2 Timothy 2:12 are discussed:
  • Jesus: “He who confesses Me before men, him will I confess before My Father…”
    Paul: “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him… If we deny Him, He will deny us.”
  • Ken references Zane Hodges to suggest Paul’s language about “enduring” is broader than simply “confessing”—it includes walking in the light (05:01–06:18).
• They also consider Revelation 2:26: Overcoming and keeping Christ’s works to the end as conditions for authority in the kingdom (07:10).

4. Practical Scenarios: Imperfect Endurance

• Ken and Bob explore complex life situations:
  • Can someone die “in the far country” (out of fellowship in an area of life) yet still be found a “faithful servant” at the judgment seat? (03:35)
  • Bob raises the example of church discipline for ongoing, willful sin: Can someone persist in unconfessed sin and still be counted among the enduring? (08:00)
  • Bob points to famous ministry figures with troubled family lives—did their failings in one area negate their faithful ministry in others? (10:02–10:34)
• Ken concludes, “We are flawed people... I would think that person’s going to rule and reign with Christ in spite of the fact that they’re a cracked pot in some area.” (11:12)

5. Encouragement and Assurance—Avoid Legalism

• Ken offers pastoral wisdom: believers shouldn’t fall into anxiety over unconfessed sin nullifying their reward.
  • “That’s not the right way to think. That’s a legalistic way to think. The right way to think is: He loves me… I’m acknowledging the sins I’m aware of… I keep growing and maturing.” (12:07–12:50)
• The final word: Trust God’s judgment, live authentically, and focus on faithfulness in the Christian journey.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Seminary and “Uncharted Territory”

  • “It’s stressful because you’re raising things that don’t get raised in seminary... In seven years at Dallas Seminary I never heard any of this discussion.” – Ken Yates (01:23)
  • “We’re in the spiritual India, except we’re really in the United States...” – Ken Yates, on exploring unfamiliar theology (04:14)

• On Balancing Endurance and Imperfection

  • “If a person is enduring, they're a faithful witness for the Lord... but what if in one area of my life... I’m in the far country?” — Bob Wilkin (02:39)
  • “None of you should be thinking, ‘Wow, I don’t know if I’ve confessed every sin in my life—so maybe I’m not going to rule and reign with Him.’ That’s not the right way to think…” — Ken Yates (12:07)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:23 – Seminaries rarely address the nuance between endurance and fellowship
• 02:21 – Introduction of the core question: Are endurance and fellowship the same?
• 03:35 – Hypothetical: enduring believers with area(s) of broken fellowship
• 04:33–05:01 – Parallel interpretation of Matthew 10:32-33 and 2 Timothy 2:12
• 06:19 – The issue of abiding and partial maturity
• 07:10 – Revelation 2:26 and conditions for ruling with Christ
• 10:34 – Real-life examples of flawed Christian leaders
• 12:07 – Final encouragement: Don’t obsess over legalism; focus on grace

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Conclusion

Wilkin and Yates conclude that enduring to the end and being in perfect fellowship with God are related but not identical. Genuine endurance in the Christian life is compatible with imperfection and struggles in particular areas. Assurance—and the hope of reigning with Christ—rests in faithfulness and honest self-evaluation, not in flawless sanctification. They urge listeners to pursue grace, resist legalistic anxiety, and trust the ultimate judgment to Christ.

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For in-depth study or further questions, visit: faithalone.org

Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. Are enduring to the end and being in fellowship with God when our earthly life comes to an end? The same thing. How does enduring to the end relate to forgiveness and fellowship? Thank you, friend for joining us today. This is Grace in Focus. Glad you're with us. We are a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. Our website address is faithalone.org there's lots to learn about us there. We hope you'll visit. We also have short YouTube videos released weekly at YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. Please plan to be at our National Annual Conference 2026. The dates are May 18th through the 21st. Get all the information you need to get [e-mail] and now with today's question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates.

[B]

And we've been doing a sessions on forgiveness. And Bob and I, between sessions are having some discussions on this. This is a hot topic. And I know we've done two or three sessions here and there's a reason for it because it comes up all the time in our classes and in our Zoom meetings and everything else.

[C]

Yeah, but this is stressful, Ken. It's stressful because you're raising things that don't get raised in seminary. I mean, in seven years at Dallas Seminary, I never heard any of this discussion.

[B]

Neither did I.

[C]

All right, so. And you have another doctorate from what, Erskine or something?

[B]

Right. And we never discussed.

[C]

And the masters and a doctorate from Dallas. And you have another master's from Southern. Right, right. None of that was discussed.

[B]

We never do. I have attended because I was in the military and they sent me. I've attended more seminary classes than anybody in the history of the world, which is probably true. It's probably true because they paid for it. They said go. So I said, sure, I'll go. And you're right. We never discuss these things. And now some people would say, well, we're just discussing what minutiae. But it's not really minutia. It's really, these are very practical things and also how we interpret so many passages of Scriptures.

[C]

But now you got another tough one today because you want to talk about what is the difference between enduring to the end of our lives? Paul says if we endure, we shall also reign with him. 2 Timothy 2:12.

[B]

Right.

[C]

What's the difference between that and being in fellowship with God at the end of our life? Are they the same or are they different?

[B]

Well, that's a great question. And that's one of the things Bob and I were talking between sessions. What if I endure? I'm faithful, I'm going to church, but I'm in another area of my life. And we'll just pick one. Let's say in my marriage, for example, I'm in the far country.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Okay. I'm. I'm out of fellowship, but I'm enduring, you know, I'm. If you ask me.

[C]

So a lot of people would say that's not possible because unless you're in fellowship with God, you're not enduring, but you're saying. And I think you're probably right. But we're, We're. The ice is thin here.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I hear the cracking noise.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But I think if we look at a lot of different scripture and we'll talk about some in a minute, I think you're on the right track. So what you would say is it's possible that a person could die out of fellowship with God and yet at the judgment seat of Christ, hear, well done, good and faithful servant.

[B]

Yeah, that's one of the.

[C]

You're going to rule with me over so many cities.

[B]

Right. So if a person endures, they're a faithful witness for the Lord, which is.

[C]

A big part of what enduring is. Right?

[B]

Right. I'm looking for the Lord's return.

[C]

Okay, so let me give you an example of a verse. Now, look, you all need to think about this and pray about this, because we're admittedly moving into some very uncharted territory here. We're like Columbus trying to find India, and he ends up in the United States. And he calls the people he meets in the United States Indians because he thinks they're in India. Right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

But they weren't Indians.

[B]

So Bob and I are in India. Right.

[C]

We're in the spiritual India, except we're really in the United States. Anyway, here's what I would suggest. You remember Matthew 10, 32 and 33, where Jesus says, he who confesses me before men, him will I confess, for my Father is in heaven. Right, Right. And what about the denial part?

[B]

He who denies me before men, I'll deny him before my father.

[C]

Okay, so 2 Timothy 2:12, lots of commentators say, is Paul's interpretation of that passage. And why would they say that? Why would they say, if we endure, we will reign with him. If we deny him, he will deny us?

[B]

Right. Well, I mean, you can see, if I confess him, then Paul says, I'll reign with him, and if I deny him before men, then I won't reign with him.

[C]

And Jesus said, he who denies me before him and him will I deny before my Father is in heaven? Well, Paul is interpreting that to say, if I'm not continuing to confess Christ denying him, then he's going to deny me the privilege of ruling with Him. It's not a matter of whether I'm born again or not. I think the NIV translates that if we deny him, he will disown us. No, he's not going to disown us. And that's not what the word means. The word means to deny. And if we deny him, he will deny us. I think actually the NIV says if we disown him, he will disown us. But it's deny, deny. Hodges made the point when I was talking to him one time. I said, why doesn't it say if we confess him, we will reign with Him? If we deny him, he will deny us? Because Matthew 10:32 says confess and deny. So why does this say endure and deny? Zane's answer was, because what Paul is thinking of here is broader than merely seeing someone who is going to rule with Christ. More than just, okay, I'm enduring in my confession, but this is also a person who's continuing to walk in the light.

[B]

So abiding in him.

[C]

Abiding in him. Then that raises the question, however, what if a person is confessing him? And maybe they're walking in the light in most, but there's one area of their life, one room, they're not really walking in the light.

[A]

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[C]

And I think it gets a bit tricky because of if we endure, we shall also reign with Him. You have the same thing in Revelation 2. 26, Remember, he who overcomes and keeps my works to the end, to him I will give authority over the nations or the Gentiles. Well, it seems to me that's two things. Overcoming the world, the flesh and the devil, and keeping my works till the end. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm at this point somewhat undecided that if a person is, let's say, in the spiritual far country, but they're still going to church they're still part of the worshiping community. They're still acknowledging Christ, but yet they're somehow in the spiritual far country in.

[B]

One particular area of their life or maybe a couple area.

[C]

Yeah, and I don't know because I tend to. Even as I say the question, I think if someone is in the far country, then they're not part of the confessing church. Or if they are, they're going to be disfellowshipped or excommunicated pretty soon because the elders are going to go, wait a minute here you're living in sin over here, willfully living in sin, and we can't tolerate that. So you're not going to be part of our assembly until you repent. Even as I ask the question, I think more what we're talking about, I think is more an issue where someone hasn't yet confessed the sin they're aware of and they're kind of mad at God. Yeah, I know that's sin. So maybe in one sense they're confessing it, but they're going, but I'm mad at you, God, or something like that. Well, I don't know.

[B]

We talked in an earlier episode about two Corinthians, five, ten, the bad works. Could it be, as we're talking about this, that someone who is. Okay, we're just going to use the example he's in the far country when it comes to his relationship with his wife, since we've been using that example. Okay, right. But he's faithful, you know, he's faithful in other areas. He's going to church, he's leading a Bible study, you know, and he's. He's studying the scriptures and he's doing okay.

[C]

So if that's the case, then the person is probably not out of fellowship with God, but he's probably out of his fellowship with his spouse. And that may not be his fault or completely his fault. Sure, I remember a famous pastor. I won't mention his name, but he was very big on the fact that a divorced pastor should step down from the ministry? And then his wife had psychological and psychiatric problems, and so she divorced him and he stayed in the pastor. Some people were going, well, what happened to the part about if you're divorced, you can't be a pastor anymore? And his thinking was, yes, but I didn't do that. I didn't want the divorce. I didn't seek the divorce. I think he even opposed the divorce. But in the United States today, if your spouse wants to divorce you, in most cases they can Right.

[B]

Well, it's interesting since we bring this up, but you read stories of what I will call influential evangelicals who had terrible family relationships. You'll read about these guys and of course, okay, we're getting it after the fact and history, what's true and what's not. But let's just assume that some of these stories are true. So these guys who were great teachers of the Bible or whatever, but they had horrible relationships either with their wives or their children or whatever the case may be.

[C]

I can give you an example. One of our profs at Dallas Seminary, I won't mention, but he passed and they had a memorial service for him. And some of his kids got up and said what a terrible father he was.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Well, that's horrible. I don't. Shame on the children for saying that. But on the other hand, it's not automatic that because a person is a good Bible teacher or a good pastor or whatever, that they're necessarily a good parent or good spouse. And it's not because, like in the case of that faculty member, I knew him fairly well. I think he was doing his best. Some of the responsibility falls on the children who are saying this. So you have to wonder if they're even being accurate in what they said. But part of it is we're flawed people. Right. In the case of that one, I think he was like I was, that he grew up in an alcoholic family. And that put some real scars on you, I guess I would say if a person is in the spiritual far country. Yeah. Then they're also not confessing Christ. But a person might have some area where they're really not doing well in their Christian life in that area. They haven't grown in that area enough yet. Even if they've been a Christian for decades, but yet they are a confessing Christian. They are part of a local assembly and they are walking in the light to the best of their ability. And I would think that person's going to rule and reign with Christ in spite of the fact that they're a cracked pot in some area. Right.

[B]

I got to tell you what I think. I'm glad the Lord is going to be the one who judges all of us.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

That's the bottom line.

[C]

And the thing is, the scripture don't answer every question that we're going to have. But I think the point is none of you should be thinking, wow, I don't know if I've confessed every sin in my life, so maybe I'm not going to rule and reign with him. That's not the right way to think. That's a legalistic way to think. The right way to think is he loves me, he cares for me. I love him. I want to please him. I'm acknowledging the sins I'm aware of. And if I have some area of my life that I'm struggling in, I'm still seeking to do my best. And I don't give up just because I've got an issue with anxiety or I've got an issue with anger, or I've got an issue with something else. I still keep growing and maturing.

[B]

And so hopefully this will stimulate some of your own thinking on some of these issues. Well, until next time, folks. Remember, Keep Grace in Focus.

[A]

Be our guest and subscribe to our 48 page magazine, six issues per year, also called Grace in Focus by emailing your name and snail mail address to gesaithalone.org that's faithalone.org on this program we keep our requests for financial partners to a minimum. But if you are interested in becoming a financial partner with Grace and Focus, you can find out how to do [e-mail] and on our next episode, the difference between cleansing and forgiveness. Come back and join us again. And in the meantime, let's keep Grace in Focus.

[B]

The proceeding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.