Do Ephesians 1:4 & Colossians 1:21-23 Teach That We Are Chosen to Persevere in Holiness?

Summary

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Grace in Focus

Episode Title: Do Ephesians 1:4 & Colossians 1:21-23 Teach That We Are Chosen to Persevere in Holiness?
Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Ken Yates

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Episode Overview

In this compact yet insightful episode, Bob Wilkin and Ken Yates address a listener question centering on the interpretation of Ephesians 1:4 and Colossians 1:21–23—namely, whether these passages teach that believers are “chosen” to persevere in holiness. The discussion revolves around key themes in Free Grace theology, including assurance, rewards, the nature of the church, and common misconceptions within Calvinist and perseverance theology. The central aim is to clarify the biblical context and meaning of being “chosen” in these verses while maintaining the distinction between justification and sanctification.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding "Chosen" in Ephesians 1:4

• Reading the Text and Question (01:00–02:13)

  • Listener Tim asks whether “chosen” refers to believers being predestined to be holy and blameless or to persevere until the end.
  • Bob and Ken note both confusion and the individualized reading prevalent today.

• Corporate Nature of the Church (02:13–03:17; 04:04–04:55)

  • Ken emphasizes that in Ephesians, “we” or “us” always refers to the church—Jews and Gentiles together—not to individuals.
    • Quote:
      “You need to understand in Ephesians the first person plural, we or us, always, always, always refers to the church.” – Ken Yates (02:39)
  • The intent is not a guarantee that each believer or local church will actually be holy and blameless, but that this is God’s desire for the church.
  • Bob urges listeners to set aside a Western, individualistic mindset in reading Ephesians, highlighting its corporate focus.

• Distinguishing God’s Desire from Guarantee (03:17–06:00)

  • Both Ephesians 1:4 and 2:10 speak to what God wants for the church, not an unavoidable outcome.
  • God's choice is of the church as Christ’s body to be a vehicle for His glory—whether this is achieved is conditional on living out that identity.

2. Colossians 1:21–23 and the Conditional "If"

• Presentation at Judgment (08:51–10:07)

  • The critical term in Colossians is “present”—referring to a future moment when faithful believers are presented as holy and blameless.
  • This presentation will occur at the Judgment Seat of Christ for those who meet the condition of perseverance.
    • Quote:
      “Is there some kind of future time when believers who have been holy, blameless and above reproach will be presented by Christ... as his companions, his co-heirs, the ones who have been faithful?” – Ken Yates (09:22)

• Conditional Statements (10:06–10:36)

  • The “if” in Colossians 1:23 indicates condition—perseverance in faith and hope, not an automatic result.
    • Quote:
      “It is conditional, right?” – Ken Yates
      “Right, notice if, if you continue…” – Bob Wilkin (10:06)

• Implications for Rewards (10:36–11:14)

  • The passage is about rewards—not salvation. Those who persevere experience special roles (“partners” who will reign with Christ), whereas unbelievers or believers who do not persevere will still be with the Lord but without these rewards.
    • Quote:
      “If you don’t persevere and you’re a believer... you’re going to be with the Lord forever... but you’re not going to rule and reign with Him.” – Ken Yates (11:20)

3. Differentiating Free Grace Theology from Perseverance Theology

• Some interpret these passages as proof of unconditional election (Calvinism) or perseverance being necessary for salvation.

• The hosts push back: neither Ephesians 1:4 nor Colossians 1:21-23 teach that only those who persevere are truly saved.

  • Quote:
    “Don’t let anybody use these two verses... to say, ‘Oh he chose certain people to go to heaven and others to go to hell.’ That’s a gross misunderstanding.” – Bob Wilkin (12:27)

• The reward (ruling and reigning with Christ) is distinct from the free gift of salvation.

• Final note of humor and clarity:

  • Quote:
    “If you go to seminary, we have a name for that. It’s called bogus.” – Ken Yates (12:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Corporate Election Emphasized:
  “He chose the church, the ‘us.’ He chose us that we should be holy and without blame.” – Bob Wilkin (02:59)
• Western Individualism Challenged:
  “When you read the book of Ephesians, get the Western notion out of your mind. It’s all about me. ... That’s not what’s going on.” – Bob Wilkin (04:04)
• Nature of Rewards:
  “The Church is going to provide those who are going to rule with Christ.” – Bob Wilkin (08:11)
• The Judgment Seat as the Context:
  “The New Testament is crystal clear. It’s at the judgment seat of Christ.” – Bob Wilkin (09:57)
• Rewards vs. Salvation:
  “If you don’t persevere and you’re a believer... you’re going to be with the Lord forever... but you’re not going to rule and reign with Him.” – Ken Yates (11:20)
• Academic Humor:
  “If you go to seminary, we have a name for that. It’s called bogus.” – Ken Yates (12:46)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:00 – Listener question and reading of Ephesians 1:4 and Colossians 1:21-23
• 02:25 – Clarifying the plural “we/us” as referring to the church
• 04:04 – Urging listeners to abandon an individual focus in Ephesians
• 06:36 – Ken explains God’s vision for the church’s holiness
• 07:59 – Discussing rewards and co-heirs with Christ
• 08:51 – Conditionality in Colossians 1:22–23 and the future “presentation”
• 09:57 – The Judgment Seat of Christ as the context for the “presentation”
• 10:06 – Conditional aspect: “if you continue in the faith”
• 11:20 – Consequence of not persevering is loss of reward, not salvation
• 12:27 – Warning against misusing these passages to teach election to heaven or hell
• 12:46 – “Bogus” interpretations called out

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Summary & Takeaways

• Ephesians 1:4 teaches God’s purpose for the corporate church (not individuals) to be holy and blameless, but this is God’s desire, not an immutable guarantee.
• Colossians 1:21–23 specifies that being presented as holy and blameless is conditional on perseverance in faith—this concerns rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ, not salvation itself.
• Both passages focus on God’s plan for the church to display His glory, with special roles (co-heirs/partners with Christ) as rewards for those who are faithful.
• Salvation is free and permanent; rewards are conditional upon perseverance and sanctification.

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Final Word

Bob and Ken urge listeners to read these passages contextually, avoid “bogus” theological misreadings, and keep the clarity of grace and reward at the forefront of interpretation.

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Transcript

[Narrator]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society When Ephesians and Colossians talk about us being chosen, is it about us being chosen to persevere in holiness? The question we're going to be thinking about today here on Grace in Focus. We are delighted that you are with us. This is the radio broadcast and podcast ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. We have a website to which we invite you faithalone.org there one of the things you can learn about is our online seminary. It is a free online seminary, free as long as you maintain a 3.0 or better grade average and you can even go so far as to earning an M. Div. Degree. Great school with great faculty online. Go through the application process. Find out more. Visit [e-mail] and now for today's question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilken and Ken Yates.

[Bob Wilkin]

Bob Weber Question from Tim Asking about two passages, two verses that deal with being chosen, if you will. And one of them is in Ephesians chapter 1, verse 4, where Paul says, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. But then in Colossians 1, 22 and 23, Paul, the same author, writes, but now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blame and free from accusation, if you continue in your faith, establish and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the Gospel. And so in Ephesians it says, he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless. And in Colossians 1 he says he chose you basically to be holy and blameless if you continue firm until the end. And he goes, how do we reconcile these two passages? Were we predestined to be holy and blameless at the judgment seat of Christ?

[Ken Yates]

So the way Tim asked it and the way you restated it slightly gets it wrong. Because in the Ephesians 1:4 he says he chose us in him to be holy and blameless.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, I'm just reading his question. Let's see, I'm going to read it now from the new King James Version. Just as he chose us in him before the foundation world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

[Ken Yates]

Okay, so that's who we should be. It doesn't say that that's guaranteed that that's what we will be. But secondly, you need to understand in Ephesians the first person plural, we or us, always, always, always refers to the church.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right.

[Ken Yates]

So he's Jews and Gentiles together in one body.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. And that's critical to understanding the book of Ephesians. You know, Ges had a conference. How many years ago was it? Three. Three years ago, I think. Yes. He chose the church, the US. He chose us. That we should be holy and without blame.

[Ken Yates]

And you have the same thing in Ephesians 2:10, right, right. He goes from Ephesians 2, 8, 9 with the U referring to the Gentiles in the church at Ephesus. And he says, for we are his workmanship, we Jews and Gentiles together by his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which he prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. And then he goes on to say the dividing wall is broken down between Jews and Gentiles and we're one body, etc. Etc. So Ephesians 1:4 is not saying that there's a guarantee we're going to be. We individually or even local churches collectively will be holy and blameless. And Ephesians 2:10 doesn't say that either. They're both saying that's God's desire for us. Now, when you get over to Colossians.

[Bob Wilkin]

1, before you go on to that, let's talk about Ephesians 1:4. First of all, let's just say for all of us, when you read the book of Ephesians, get the Western notion out of your mind. It's all about me.

[Ken Yates]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

You know, it's just me, me, me, me. That's the way we are. That's the way we're wired.

[Ken Yates]

Well, don't Calvinists take Ephesians 1:4 to talk about chosen for eternal life?

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, that's it. Was I chosen? Who's he talking. Well, he's got to be talking about me. It's always about me as an individual. And Bob did a great job here pointing out the whole book really is what he's done in bringing Jews and Gentiles into the body of Christ. Now, I know that's weird and I know we don't think that way, but that's what's going on in the Book of Ephesians. So we would encourage all of you to just when you read the book of Ephesians, think of the church, right?

[Ken Yates]

That's right.

[Bob Wilkin]

But let's talk a little bit about this in Ephesians 1, because I've never asked you this. I don't think, and I don't remember talking really about it at the conference. In your opinion, do you think that What Paul is saying is God wants the church to be holy and blameless. Or is he saying that it's something he desires? Or is he saying that in the church, the church will be holy, There will be people within the church who reign with Christ. For example, there will be people who walk here in love. In other words, is Paul saying, hey listen, God chose us, that we would be holy and without blame before him in love? Is he saying that this is going to happen, that the church as a whole will be holy and blameless before him? You see what I'm saying? Or is he saying, hey, this was God's desire, this is what he chose us to be, but the church may.

[Narrator]

Blow it you are invited to subscribe to the Grace Evangelical Society's YouTube channel. You will find our Monday, Wednesday and Friday videos there, enlightening and encouraging and even probably humorous at if you like Bob Wilkins humor, indeed you will get Biblical truth about free grace themes like faith alone for eternal salvation and why the Grace evangelical society is zero point Calvinistic. We come your way three times a week at the Grace Evangelical YouTube channel. Check it out and tell a friend about the Grace Evangelical Society.

[Ken Yates]

First of all, I think Tim's onto something. We might get some clues from Colossians 1:21 23 because it does talk about holy and blameless, etc. However, I think it's the former of what you're talking about that he's saying he has chosen the body of Christ to be a vehicle for his glory and to be holy and blameless in Christ. That's what he wants from us. And I think Ephesians 2:10 brings that out. Again, there were his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good work, which he prepared beforehand that we the local church should walk in them. Now we know from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 that not every local church is doing well. Right? Not every local church is doing that. But having said that, we do get later In Ephesians chapter 5, verses 5 to 7 about inheriting the kingdom. And that is for the believers who are holy and blameless. And I would argue that Colossians 1:21 23 is saying that it's a specific group of believers who are holy and blameless, not all believers.

[Bob Wilkin]

For example, in Hebrews the metachoi are the partners. Christ is going to have his metachoi. Christ is going to have his partners who reign with him.

[Ken Yates]

Same thing Romans 8:17 and co heirs with Christ. If indeed we suffer with him, then we might be glorified together with him. So yeah, he will have his partners, he will have his medicoi, he will have his co rulers.

[Bob Wilkin]

So the Church is going to provide those who are going to rule with Christ.

[Ken Yates]

Right. Now of course the Old Testament saints will also rule with Christ, but they are not what's being talked about here.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, in Ephesians it's that God chose that Jews and Gentiles. This is not true in the Old Testament would form the body of Christ.

[Ken Yates]

Right. And he actually wants church age believers to rule over Israel and the nations in the millennium and on the new earth. But of course Old Testament saints who were faithful are also going to get to rule and reign. We don't know exactly how all that works out.

[Bob Wilkin]

Okay, well that's good. Now let's look at Colossians 1:22,23 and.

[Ken Yates]

There'S one word that you left out when you read the question and when you summarize the question and it's the.

[Bob Wilkin]

Word present here in Colossians 1.

[Ken Yates]

Yeah.

[Bob Wilkin]

It says, and you who were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death to present you holy and blameless and above proach in his sight. If indeed you continue in the faith grounded and steadfast and are not a move away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard.

[Ken Yates]

Right. So notice before you get to the if which Tim makes a good point about the issue here is presentation somewhere. Well, where would this presentation be to present you holy and blameless and above reproach in his sight? Is there some kind of future time when believers who have been holy, blameless and above reproach will be presented by Christ before the angels and before God the Father? And where he's going to say these are my companions, these are my co heirs. These are the ones who have been faithful.

[Bob Wilkin]

Absolutely. The New Testament is crystal clear. It's at the judgment seat of Christ. And all those passages where Jesus talks about it, that's clearly what Paul is talking about here in Colossians 2.

[Ken Yates]

It is conditional, Right?

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. Notice if, if you continue, the same.

[Ken Yates]

Idea is found in 1st Corinthians 15:1. If you hold fast the word which I preach to you, unless you believed in vain, which would mean if Christ didn't rise from the dead, then faith in Christ is worthless. But if their belief in Christ was valid, then they have to continue to hold fast to the good news so that they would be healthy at the judgment seat of Christ.

[Bob Wilkin]

Yeah. 1 Corinthians 15. That whole chapter is on rewards. It ends on that note. And even when he talks about the resurrected body, there's going to be differences in resurrected bodies between one from another. Just as the stars differ and just as the moon is brighter than the stars and the sun is brighter than the moon, in the resurrection, that's the way it's going to be.

[Ken Yates]

Right. So I would say in the Colossians passage, his desire is to present us this way. But whether Tim is going to be found that way, whether Bob is going to be found that way, whether Ken is going to be found that way, depends on whether we persevere. Now, we're going to be in the.

[Bob Wilkin]

Kingdom, and again, the Church is going to have those who do.

[Ken Yates]

Exactly. And we see that from lots of passages, including this one. But you've got to persevere to get it. See, that's where perseverance, theology messes up. A lot of people say, if you don't persevere, you're going to hell. No, if you don't persevere and you're a believer, you're going to be with the Lord forever, first in heaven when you die, and then in the millennium in the new earth. But you're not going to rule and reign with Him. So the issue is this presentation of the judgment seat of Christ and the choosing. There's other verses that talk about being chosen to be Christ's partners and being.

[Bob Wilkin]

Chosen to be a Christian, those who suffer with Him.

[Ken Yates]

Yeah. And that requires that we suffer with Him.

[Bob Wilkin]

Right. And so God in Ephesians 1 chose the church. He's the we.

[Ken Yates]

Right.

[Bob Wilkin]

That was his.

[Ken Yates]

And he wants the Church to be holy and blameless. And if we, any individuals within the Church are holy, holy and blameless, that's the way he'll present us at the judgment seat of Christ. But he's not going to present us that way at the judgment seat of Christ if we die or are raptured when we're out of fellowship with Him.

[Bob Wilkin]

And don't let anybody use these two verses either. Ephesians saying, oh, he chose certain people to go to heaven and certain people to go to hell. That's a gross misunderstanding. Or in Colossians 1, to say, well, if you hold fat, well, I've got to do works if I'm going to make it into the kingdom of God. Both of those are horrible interpretations of these verses.

[Ken Yates]

If you go to seminary, we have a name for that. It's called bogus.

[Bob Wilkin]

Well, thanks for this question, Tim. And remember, keep grace in Focus.

[Narrator]

We invite you to check out our Monday, Wednesday and Friday five minute YouTube videos at YouTube Grace Evangelical Society. You will love the content and learn a lot. Maybe you've got a question or comment or feedback. If so, please send us a message. Here's our email address. It's radioaithalone.org that's radioaithalone.org Please make sure your question is as succinct and clear as possible. That would be a great big help on our next episode. Why did Peter and Paul preach forgiveness? Please come back and join us again. Until then, let's keep Grace in focus.

[Bob Wilkin]

The proceeding has been a listener supported.

[Narrator]

Ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.