How Can You Know If You Yourself Are Saved? – Part 5

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "How Can You Know If You Yourself Are Saved? – Part 5"

Podcast: Grace in Focus
Date: May 15, 2026
Hosts: Bob Wilkin & Sam Marr (Grace Evangelical Society)
Length: 13 minutes

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode—the concluding part of a five-part series—dives into the crucial topic of assurance of salvation from the Free Grace theological perspective. Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr critique interpretations of assurance in a referenced YouTube video ("Free Grace vs Lordship" from Smart Christian), draw out distinctions between Free Grace camps, and emphasize why assurance is at the heart of Free Grace theology, contrasting it with Lordship Salvation and related views.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Assurance: The Missing Piece ([00:56])

• Bob Wilkin laments that the Smart Christian channel fails to address assurance—“He completely forgoes talking about assurance and its importance on the believer. Not just the fact that you’re saved once and for all and it can never be taken away from you. But how does that change a believer’s life? Knowing that?” (B, 01:32)
• Assurance is highlighted as more than a doctrine: it impacts “the here and now”—the believer’s daily experience.

2. Two Streams in Free Grace Theology ([02:10])

a. Focused Free Grace

• To be born again, you must be assured—by believing the promise of everlasting life through faith in Christ alone (John 3:16).
  “Until a person has assurance that he has everlasting life, that can never be lost simply by faith in Christ, until that point, the person is not yet born again.” (C, 02:59)

b. Flexible Free Grace

• Assurance is not essential for new birth; it develops later (as part of sanctification). Any faith that Jesus is the Son of God or in His death/burial/resurrection suffices—even if you’re never assured of salvation.
• Bob strongly disagrees: “Even if you’ve never been sure of your eternal destiny, I would say, no, that’s absolutely wrong.” (C, 03:51)

3. The Nature of Assurance and Its Loss ([04:21])

• Assurance is maintained by continuing to believe the biblical promise.
• “If you stop believing, you don’t lose the life that you’ve gained, but you lose the assurance of that life. And that can have negative consequences on a believer.” (B, 04:21)
• Exposure to other doctrines (e.g., Calvinism, Arminianism) can erode assurance while not undoing salvation.

4. The Subjectivity Problem & The Fault of Lordship Salvation ([05:02], [07:28])

• Lordship systems tie assurance to performance (“continue in faith and good works”)—thus, assurance oscillates with personal evaluation.
• “My assurance is now based on myself.” (B, 05:38)
• “How much sin do I have to commit before I’ve proven that I was never saved to begin with? It’s a human subjective standard...” (B, 07:28)

5. Questioning Works-Based or Feelings-Based Assurance ([07:52], [09:08])

• Some recommend looking to works or feelings for assurance, but Bob notes both are unreliable:
  “Both feelings and works are highly subjective and they can’t give us assurance.” (C, 09:25)
• Only Jesus’ promise (e.g., John 3:16) gives certainty.

6. Defining and Distinguishing Full Assurance ([07:52])

• Some camps differentiate “assurance” and “full assurance.” Bob dismisses the distinction: “Assurance is certainty, and it can’t get any fuller than certainty.” (C, 08:50)
• Assurance equals belief: “If I believe I have eternal life, I’m assured I have eternal life. It can’t get any fuller than that.” (C, 09:00)

7. Correcting Misrepresentations in the Lordship Debate ([10:08], [11:09])

• Smart Christian frames Free Grace as claiming “faith in the wrong thing is not sufficient” & “faith without works is sufficient” — Wilkin and Marr affirm both.
  • “Faith in the wrong thing is not sufficient. If you don’t believe in Christ for everlasting life, then you’re not a believer. That’s what it means.” (B, 10:40)
  • “Faith without works is sufficient because [Jesus] never said what works were required.” (B, 10:56)

8. Salvation and Good Works: Time and Evidence ([11:33])

• Under Lordship views, you cannot know you’re saved at belief—only if you persist in good works over time (or until death).
• “How can you ever know if it was genuine until you die? … People never say that about themselves, but they’re quick to say it about other people.” (B, 11:39)

9. Application: Where to Look for Assurance ([12:20])

• Marr’s advice: “Look to Jesus and His promise in John 3:16 and you have certainty. You’re assured. Look to yourself and you guaranteed do not have assurance.” (C, 12:20)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On assurance and salvation:

  • “Until a person has assurance that he is saved once and for all… that person is not yet born again.” (C, 02:59)
  • “If you stop believing, you don’t lose the life that you’ve gained, but you lose the assurance of that life.” (B, 04:21)

• On the futility of self-evaluation:

  • “How much sin do I have to commit before I’ve proven that I was never saved to begin with?” (B, 07:28)

• On subjective feelings and works:

  • “Both feelings and works are highly subjective and they can’t give us assurance.” (C, 09:25)

• On Lordship Salvation logic:

  • “How can you ever know if it was genuine until you die?” (B, 11:39)

• On assurance:

  • “Look to Jesus and His promise in John 3:16 and you have certainty. You’re assured. Look to yourself and you guaranteed do not have assurance.” (C, 12:20)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:56] – Start of discussion on Smart Christian’s treatment of assurance
• [02:10] – The question: “How do I know if I’m born again?”
• [04:21] – The consequence of losing assurance
• [07:28] – The subjectivity of evaluating salvation with reference to sin
• [09:08] – Works and feelings as assurance & John 3:16 as the anchor
• [10:08] – Free Grace affirmation: faith (in the right thing) without works
• [11:33] – Challenges in knowing one’s salvation if linked to works
• [12:20] – Final summary: assurance comes from Jesus’ promise

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Takeaways

• Assurance is essential to the Free Grace gospel: One is born again when one is assured by believing in Christ’s promise of eternal life (not just facts about Jesus).
• Assurance must be rooted in Christ’s promise, not in subjective performance or feelings: “Look to Jesus and His promise… not to yourself.”
• Lordship and flexible Free Grace approaches fail to provide certainty, making assurance tenuous and subjective.
• The core message: Salvation’s certainty is built on the objective promise of Christ, not on fluctuating works or emotions.

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Transcript

[A]

The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society. Can you know with full assurance that you belong to the Lord, that you are eternally saved? Let's talk about it today here on Grace and Focus. So glad you've joined us today, friend. This is a ministry of the Grace Evangelical Society. You can find us [e-mail] lots of information, lots of things to learn about us. There's including our subscription free magazine also called Grace in Focus. It is free as long as you live in the 48 contiguous United States. Otherwise you only have to pay the postage and after that you can receive it free anywhere. A beautiful magazine, great articles, full length. You will enjoy it. We want you to have it Sign up [e-mail] now with today's discussion, here are Bob Wilken and Sam Marr.

[B]

All right everybody, we're in Part five now at this point be the last episode we do on this miniseries we've done Talking about a YouTube video called Free Grace vs Lordship from Smart Christian's channel. Encourage you to listen to the previous episodes to get the full context and go check out his video so you can see what he says. But the last thing I want to hit on here, we talked about it a little bit early on and he doesn't mention it at all in his video. I think he's done a good job of presenting a very rudimentary free grace position on specific verses. But he kind of misses one of the overall reasons why this is so important for people here and now, really, he misses two things. He doesn't mention rewards at all. But I don't know if we'll really have time to get into that here. But the big hole in what he's talking about, if he really wants to give accurate interpretation of free grace, is he doesn't mention assurance. He completely forgoes talking about assurance and its importance on the believer. Not just the fact that you're saved once and for all and it can never be taken away from you. But how does that change a believer's life? Knowing that?

[C]

Yeah, that's a good point. So how does the person know? How do I know that I'm born again? The last show we talked about how he would say when he looked at someone else, how did he know if someone else was born again? But what about me, myself? How do I know I'm born again? And then if I do, what impact does that have on me? The free grace position is somewhat divided on this issue. We call our position the focused free grace position in light of keep grace in focus. And then there's another position which has been called the flexible free grace position. According to the focus free grace position, until a person has assurance that he is saved once and for all, until a person has assurance that he has everlasting life, that can never be lost simply by faith in Christ, until that point, the person is not yet born again. The people in the flexible free grace camp would say, no, no, assurance of your eternal destiny is a blessing that can come to you, but it's part of sanctification. And they say what you need to believe to be born again is not that by faith in Jesus you have eternal life, John 3:16, for example, but it's faith that Jesus is the son of God, or faith that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. Or it might be faith that Jesus was sent from God. But the idea is, as long as you believe in Jesus, death, burial and resurrection, or as long as you believe in his deity, or as long as you believe he's sent from God, then you're born again. Even if you don't know you're born again, you're born again. Even if you've never been sure of your eternal destiny, I would say, no, that's absolutely wrong. And the other question that's a little bit different is how do I know? I'm sure the focus, free grace. People like us, we would say the only way to know that I have everlasting life is because I continue to believe the promise.

[B]

Right? If you stop believing, you don't lose the life that you've gained, but you lose the assurance of that life. And that can have negative consequences on a believer.

[C]

Absolutely. So let's say I am convinced that John 3:16 is true and I know I'm saved forever. And, and then I go to seminary and I'm taught, let's say, Calvinism. Well, it doesn't take long before a person can lose their assurance. They're still born again, but they've lost it. If they go to a school that teaches you can lose your salvation, it's quite possible that after a period of time they're going to lose their assurance. Why? Because they stop believing what the Scriptures say.

[B]

Well, and that's where I want to go with this. The logical progression of the kind of theology that he is teaching. He says, you know, you're saved by grace through faith, and it's not works. I'll give it to him. He doesn't really believe that. If he believes, you have to continue working afterwards. To prove it. But, okay, regeneration, the moment you're born again, that's by grace, through faith, not related to works. So in a sense, we agree on that. But he backloads. We don't backload. That's where the conflict there arises. But then, okay, the next question is, you already answered. How do we have assurance that we're saved? And it's by continuing to believe that promise. As long as you believe. Why would I start to question whether I'm going to go to heaven or not or be on the new earth? But for him, it's a very different line of reasoning. Because if I say I believe in Jesus, and because I believe in Jesus, I'm going to continue in faith and good works till the end of my life. My assurance is now based on myself. And these people will say, no, it's based on God. When you're sealed by the Holy Spirit, that means you can never fall away, you never will. Okay, that sounds great on paper, but let's have an example of a person. Let's say you've got person, grew up, not Christian. Someone evangelizes him. They use John 3:16. He believes in Christ for everlasting life. And then someone tells him, okay, now that you're a Christian, you're gonna live a. A good life. You're going to be righteous, you're going to pray, you're going to take care of people, you're going to give money to poor people. You're going to do all these things. And then he's like, okay, sure. And then like a year later, he's not doing those things anymore. Maybe he's gambling or drinking or letting a habit take control of his life. He's going to start to question, man, I really thought I believed John 3:16, but I guess I never really believed I was never saved.

[A]

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[B]

The other question there is how much, how much sin do I have to commit before I've proven that I was never saved to begin with? It's a human subjective standard determining what level of sin or righteousness you have to maintain either to gain final salvation or to prove you were saved to begin with yeah.

[C]

Sam, have you ever heard the expression full assurance?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. People like this smart Christian will talk about having assurance and then they will talk about full assurance. Now, I realize he doesn't talk about either one on this particular video, but I bet if we looked at all of his videos, he'd have videos on assurance and full assurance. Well, coming back to flexible free grace I was talking about earlier, they have two different ways to have assurance. The first way is by works. And so they say, when you first come to faith in Christ, maybe you believe he died and rose again. If you haven't yet believed the promise of eternal life, which for them is a sanctification issue, how do you have assurance? They say, well, you look to your works. They call that assurance. They say later on you can come to believe the promise of eternal life. They call that full assurance. What we say is that assurance is certainty, and it can't get any fuller than certainty. Assurance is another name for belief. If I believe I have eternal life, I'm assured I have eternal life. It can't get any fuller than that. And so what I would say is, look, don't look to your works at all. Some people would say, like, I bet this smart Christian might say, well, look to your works. And he would probably say, also look to your feelings. Do you feel like a Christian? Well, the problem is both feelings and works are highly subjective and they can't give us assurance. What gives us assurance is Jesus promise that whoever believes in him will not perish, but has everlasting life. We used to sing this song, whosoever Surely Meaneth Me based on John 3:16. I love that song. Isn't that true? That's how I have assurance. Because whosoever surely meaneth me. I'm concerned for this guy who is called the smart Christian. He obviously doesn't have assurance of his eternal destiny. Hopefully he believed in Christ and his promise of eternal life at some point in the past. But if not, he's not even yet born again and yet he's trying to teach people how they can follow Christ, how they can know they're a believer, etc.

[B]

Yeah, and he makes a statement in the video like, here's what free grace says. And then he's going to explain why it's wrong. But he makes the sort of a statement where he says these people will say faith in the wrong thing is not sufficient for everlasting life. Or he doesn't say everlasting life, but then he says, but they will say that faith without works is sufficient. And he presents this as like kind of a gotcha or like a look at how ridiculous this argument is. But that's exactly right. He's summed it up pretty perfectly in those two statements. Faith in the wrong thing is not sufficient. If you don't believe in Christ for everlasting life, then you're not a believer. That's what it means. To be a believer is to believe. And it doesn't mean believe just anything. It means to believe the promise that he made. And then faith without works is sufficient because he never said what works were required. There's no condition placed on what he promised in the Gospel of John.

[C]

Yeah, but the other thing is, when he was discussing Ephesians 2, 8, 9, he said it's not of works without works.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So at the moment I'm born again, no works play any part whatsoever in me having everlasting life. Isaiah 64:6 all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Sure, we have righteous deeds, but they give us no merit with God.

[B]

And that's the problem with what he's presenting is at the moment of belief. If I were evangelizing somebody, I share John 3:16 with them and they say, I get it. That makes sense. I believe in Jesus Christ for everlasting life. I can't know whether they're a believer or not until they do something good. I need them to run under his system. Yes, I need them to immediately run and help an old lady across the road or go give all their money away or something. Otherwise I'm not going to know that they're saved because they believed it. But how do I know if they really believed it? If you came to faith, you believed in Christ for everlasting life. How can you ever know if it was genuine until you die? Because at any moment you could be, well, I'm continuing good works for now, but maybe I'll fall away. But people never say that about themselves, but they're quick to say it about other people.

[C]

That's so right. Look to Jesus and His promise in John 3:16 and you have certainty. You're assured. Look to yourself and you guaranteed do not have assurance. So thanks so much, y'. All. Hope you enjoyed this discussion. If you get a chance, check out the Smart Christian Channel discussion of free grace versus Lordship. In the meantime, keep grace in focus.

[A]

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